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curses!

metsmarathon Dec 08 2005 07:25 PM

so the wife and i found ourselves in one of those "you think too much" moments today. the backstory is that on some random disney freak fansite that she lurks at for purposes of amusement, somebody expressed shock and horror that a disney cast member at an eatery in the animal kingdom had uttered the name of the lord in vain in response to a question as to teh nature of a menu item. the conversation basically went like: Disney Freak: "say, what's in the fdsopiwehek pie?" Cast Member "[lord's name used in vain], i don't know..." DF: [shock and outrage] this led to the wifey asking me if i personally considered "jesus" "christ" or "god" to be curse words. much in the same way as "nail" or "screw", be both agreed that they are not curse words, but in fact could be contextually offensive. i found myself, as i often do, wandering down a dusty and infrequently travelled tangent, and began to ponder "why is 'fuck' a curse word?" what is it about those four letters that makes it so foul as to have been banished from polite conversation? i conceded that there is an implicit difference between "fuck" and its generic meaning of "to have sex with" in that fucking is connotatively more agressive and loveless action, whereas sex, theoretically, would be laced with love, or at least thoughts of fruitful reproduction. so i wandered down the tangent to the next curse word on my list: "shit" why is "shit" so much more offensive that crap, or poop? i mean, if an adul said "poop" in mixed company, we'd all giggle and be very much amused. but if someone said shit, some would surely be offended - and certainly it would never make it past the censors! why are those four letters - SHIT - so inappropriate, when POOP means exactly the same thing? both refer to feces, right? i mean, its not like some feces are better than others? well, ok, the parents out there are prolly screaming that some feces are certainly worse than others, i'll grant that, but really, are there good feces that i'm just too plain ignorant to recognize? benign, benevolent feces that would be welcome, or at least tolerated, in mixed company, even cause for amusement? and so, if it is not the meaning of the word "shit" that we find offensive, what else is there about those four seemingly innocent, and altogether unremarkable, letters that cause them to be inacceptable, intolerable in polite conversation? we can all gather around the dinner table with our elderly relatives, and listen to ghastly stories about prostate and colon exams, urine and stool samples, and while that all causes us far more discomfort than one should ever foist upon those whom are presumably loved family members, thy are not cause for scorn whatsoever, entirely unlike the mere utterance of those four letters, s, h, i and t. why is that? i'll also field answers to my questions as to why hte utterance of "god" is particularly sinful and offensive, when at the heart of it, you're ostensibly calling out to the diety of your choice for intercession and/or guidance. i mean, i get that its a commandment and all, its just that i've never had a good enough explanation as to why it should be so sinful... (but id prefer, if at all possible, to avoid a religious debate, so, instead, maybe lets stick to the real issue instead!)

KC Dec 08 2005 07:40 PM

Good g-d, I don't know where to fucking begin when it comes to addressing this shit.

MFS62 Dec 08 2005 07:41 PM

Its been a long time since I checked it out , but isn't not taking the name of the Lord in vain one of the no-no's in the Bible? Some folks get upset at that kind of stuff. Later

OlerudOwned Dec 08 2005 07:58 PM

(Poster from the web-comic [url=http://www.questionablecontent.net/]QC[/url]

Valadius Dec 08 2005 08:01 PM

Wow.

Edgy DC Dec 08 2005 08:52 PM

metsmarathon has been banned.

Frayed Knot Dec 08 2005 11:45 PM

Edgy DC wrote: metsmarathon has been banned. 'Bout fuckin' time!!!!

metirish Dec 08 2005 11:50 PM

Is he really banned?

TheOldMole Dec 09 2005 12:01 AM

A linguistics scholar once told me that "fuck you" as a epithet (when you'd think it would be one of the nicest things you could wish something) is really an abbreviation of what was a longer expression, more or less the opposite of "May God bless you" -- "May the Devil fuck you."

metsmarathon Dec 09 2005 12:16 AM

damnit!

Valadius Dec 09 2005 12:41 AM

Had you said "curses!", that would have been brilliant.

metsmarathon Dec 09 2005 12:55 AM

damnit! i mean... curses! aw, heck...

Edgy DC Dec 09 2005 08:02 AM

metirish has been banned.

Vic Sage Dec 09 2005 12:30 PM

I assume the "god" thing flows from one of those earlier commandments: "thou shalt not take thy lord's name in vain", isn't it? Which i always thought was pretty weak, insecure shit to come from an all-powerful deity. Regarding the 10 Commandments, I posted about them a few years ago, during the controversy regarding the judge who wanted to post them on the courthouse door. So i discussed them in the context of the 1st Amendment problems arising from a U.S. governmental authority so asserting them, as follows: THE FIRST COMMANDMENT (Exodus 20:2-6) I am the Lord, your God, you shall not have any other God besides me. So, the US government, through its courts, should establish the God of the Old Testament as the one true God, and forbid any others? Sounds like a 1st Amendment problem to me. THE SECOND COMMANDMENT (Exodus 20:7) You shall not take the name of the Lord, Your God, in vain. So, having established the one true God, the gov't should now endorse limitations on speech about that particular deity? um, 1st amendment. sorry. THE THIRD COMMANDMENT (Exodus 20:8-11) Remember to keep holy the Sabbath Day. Well, i'm all for days off. So this one's good. THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT ](Exodus 20:12) Honor your father and your mother. This is a pretty good one, too, especially now that i'm a parent. Of course, if your father sexually abuses you, while your mother beats you, breaks your spirit and teaches you to hate those who are different, then it's a little more problematic. And obedience to authority in general is problematic when the authority is evil or corrupt. which, you know, happens once in awhile. THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT (Exodus 20:13) You shall not kill. This is a great one. I'm all for this one. Unfortunately, the courts aren't, as they've found capital punishment constitutional, so even THEY don't believe this commandment. Why, then, are they posting it on their front door? THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT (Exodus 20:14) You shall not commit adultery. If you want to define "adultery" as sex by a married person with someone other than their spouse, well OK then. That's a pretty bad thing. But this one is also used to condemn masturbation and homosexuality. How could a judge walk past this admonition without laughing up his gay, puffy sleeve? Is the god of the old testament really against yanking off? THE SEVENTH COMMANDMENT (Exodus 20:15) You shall not steal. Well, Ok. this is one you could put in front of a courthouse. I'd certainly consider posting it in front of MY house, and on my car. But i think they'd steal the sign if i did. THE EIGHTH COMMANDMENT (Exodus 20:16) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Yeah, this is a pretty solid one too. Although most criminal lawyers, DAs, defendants and witnesses couldn't walk past such a sign without lightning striking them dead. Frankly, the criminal justice system, and most testimonial commercials, would cease to exist. Not that this would necessarily be a bad thing... The Ninth Commandment (Exodus 20:17) You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. To the extent this is just about what we THINK, it's a bit of a problem. To the extent we actually BOINK our neighbor's wife, then you've already got that covered under Commandment #6. The Tenth Commandment (Exodus 20:17) You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor. Thought police... woo woo woo.... And the envy of the success of others is the engine that drives our economy. So, basically, the 10 commandments really boil down to about 3: (1) - I'm your one and only God. Fuck Buddha and Vishnu, fuck Zeus and Odin, fuck the spirits of Earth, Air and Water, Fuck science. Pray only to me, at least on Sundays. And if i'm out for a few minutes, your mom and dad have got my proxy, so watch your damn mouth; (2) - Leave your neighbor alone. Don't spread lies about him, don't fuck his wife, don't steal his stuff... hell, don't even THINK about fucking his wife or stealing his stuff. And no matter how frustrated you get with his having better stuff and a hotter wife than you do, don't kill him... (3) - And don't jerk off, especially not in front of your parents. And if you do it and lie about it later, i'll smote your ass but good. Now, i could see putting up THIS revised 2nd Commandment in front of a courthouse, since it is the essence of much of our law (except for all the admonitions about even THINKING about doing bad stuff), but as for the rest... um... it's a buncha shiite, as the Irish say. Upon further consideration, these 3 commandments actually boil down to one basic concept: Don't fuck with me, don't fuck with anybody else, and you can't even fuck yourself. Basically, its a big "NO FUCKING" sign, carved in stone. So, i'd say the view of "fuck" as a bad thing is pretty deeply ingrained in Judeo-Christian philosophy.

OlerudOwned Dec 09 2005 12:39 PM

Hehehe. Thats some good stuff, Vic.

Willets Point Dec 09 2005 12:46 PM

Aw jeez, reruns agains!

ScarletKnight41 Dec 09 2005 12:53 PM

Vic - I just showed that to the teen and the pre-teen, and they're laughing themselves silly.

TheOldMole Dec 09 2005 08:46 PM

Vic -- this is great.

Willets Point Jan 19 2006 01:44 PM

This thread started with great promise and then died (maybe because of Vic's rerun?). So I'm bumping it.

MFS62 Jan 19 2006 02:02 PM

Vic, are you sure you're not George Carlin? Here's his take on the subject. Later ********************************************************** Here is my problem with the ten commandments- why exactly are there 10? You simply do not need ten. The list of ten commandments was artificially and deliberately inflated to get it up to ten. Here’s what happened: About 5,000 years ago a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to try to figure out how to control people and keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so they announced that God had given them some commandments, up on a mountain, when no one was around. Well let me ask you this- when they were making this shit up, why did they pick 10? Why not 9 or 11? I’ll tell you why- because 10 sound official. Ten sounds important! Ten is the basis for the decimal system, it’s a decade, it’s a psychologically satisfying number (the top ten, the ten most wanted, the ten best dressed). So having ten commandments was really a marketing decision! It is clearly a bullshit list. It’s a political document artificially inflated to sell better. I will now show you how you can reduce the number of commandments and come up with a list that’s a little more workable and logical. I am going to use the Roman Catholic version because those were the ones I was taught as a little boy. Let’s start with the first three: I AM THE LORD THY GOD THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH Right off the bat the first three are pure bullshit. Sabbath day? Lord’s name? strange gods? Spooky language! Designed to scare and control primitive people. In no way does superstitious nonsense like this apply to the lives of intelligent civilized humans in the 21st century. So now we’re down to 7. Next: HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER Obedience, respect for authority. Just another name for controlling people. The truth is that obedience and respect shouldn’t be automatic. They should be earned and based on the parent’s performance. Some parents deserve respect, but most of them don’t, period. You’re down to six. Now in the interest of logic, something religion is very uncomfortable with, we’re going to jump around the list a little bit. THOU SHALT NOT STEAL THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS Stealing and lying. Well actually, these two both prohibit the same kind of behavior- dishonesty. So you don’t really need two you combine them and call the commandment “thou shalt not be dishonest”. And suddenly you’re down to 5. And as long as we’re combining I have two others that belong together: THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTRY THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR’S WIFE Once again, these two prohibit the same type of behavior. In this case it is marital infidelity. The difference is- coveting takes place in the mind. But I don’t think you should outlaw fantasizing about someone else’s wife because what is a guy gonna think about when he’s waxing his carrot? But, marital infidelity is a good idea so we’re gonna keep this one and call it “thou shalt not be unfaithful”. And suddenly we’re down to four. But when you think about it, honesty and infidelity are really part of the same overall value so, in truth, you could combine the two honesty commandments with the two fidelity commandments and give them simpler language, positive language instead of negative language and call the whole thing “thou shalt always be honest and faithful” and we’re down to 3. THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR”S GOODS This one is just plain fuckin’ stupid. Coveting your neighbor’s goods is what keeps the economy going! Your neighbor gets a vibrator that plays “o come o ye faithful”, and you want one too! Coveting creates jobs, so leave it alone. You throw out coveting and you’re down to 2 now- the big honesty and fidelity commandment and the one we haven’t talked about yet: THOU SHALT NOT KILL Murder. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who’s doin the killin’ and who’s gettin’ killed. So, with all of this in mind, I give you my revised list of the two commandments: Thou shalt always be honest and faithful to the provider of thy nookie. & Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man than you. Two is all you need; Moses could have carried them down the hill in his fuckin’ pocket. I wouldn’t mind those folks in Alabama posting them on the courthouse wall, as long as they provided one additional commandment: Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.