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WARLords

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 02:35 PM

Top ten Mets non-pitchers with regards to WAR, as measured by BB-R. Go.

Ceetar Feb 06 2013 02:44 PM Re: WARLords

Carlos Beltran.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2013 02:44 PM Re: WARLords Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 06 2013 02:45 PM

[crossout:3tl2tdff]Dwight[/crossout:3tl2tdff] Darryl

Swan Swan H Feb 06 2013 02:45 PM Re: WARLords

Strawberry

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 02:47 PM Re: WARLords

Single season or career? Not that Piazza wouldn't make either of those lists. If single season, do you want the year, too?

seawolf17 Feb 06 2013 02:49 PM Re: WARLords

Kevin McReynolds.

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 02:50 PM Re: WARLords

Career 1. 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4 WAR, 4549 PA 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. 5. 6. 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. 9. 10. xxx 15. McReynolds

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 02:51 PM Re: WARLords

I'll go with Gilkey96 if it's single seaon WAR; Wright for career. Are you looking for single season WAR or career WAR?

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 02:55 PM Re: WARLords

Career 1. 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4 WAR, 4549 PA 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. 5. 6. 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. 9. 10. xxx 15. McReynolds Beltran: 33% more WAR than Piazza, in less plate appearances. I now know that these numbers represent total and not just offensive WAR.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2013 02:56 PM Re: WARLords

Josejose

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 02:56 PM Re: WARLords

Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. 9. 10. xxx 15. McReynolds

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2013 02:57 PM Re: WARLords

Hajihaji

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 02:58 PM Re: WARLords

Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Jawnson, 20.3, 4591 (coached several of the guys that passed him on this list) 9. 10. xxx 15. McReynolds

dinosaur jesus Feb 06 2013 02:58 PM Re: WARLords

Buddy.

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 03:00 PM Re: WARLords

Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Jawnson, 20.3, 4591 (coached several of the guys that passed him on this list) 9. 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson (a bold and tangy guess, though) 15. McReynolds

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 03:00 PM Re: WARLords

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 03:01 PM Re: WARLords

Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo Bobblehead: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson 15. McReynolds

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 03:02 PM Re: WARLords

dinosaur jesus Feb 06 2013 03:02 PM Re: WARLords Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 06 2013 03:03 PM

Okay, I'll go for an obvious one this time. Keith. OE: Too late.

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 03:03 PM Re: WARLords

Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson 15. McReynolds

Ceetar Feb 06 2013 03:04 PM Re: WARLords

Olerud.

Vic Sage Feb 06 2013 03:07 PM Re: WARLords

Carter?

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 03:09 PM Re: WARLords

These numbers, like most Mets offensive career leaders numbers, are pathetic.

dinosaur jesus Feb 06 2013 04:21 PM Re: WARLords

Mookie!

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 04:37 PM Re: WARLords

Cigar for the man who said Mookie. Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. Mookie Wilson: 19.0, 4308 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson 12. Jon Olerud * * 15. McReynolds ** 23. Gary Carter

Ceetar Feb 06 2013 04:39 PM Re: WARLords

The provocative answer; Kranepool.

metirish Feb 06 2013 04:43 PM Re: WARLords

Ricky Henderson Or you mean just Mets career?

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 05:28 PM Re: WARLords

Absolutely, Mets career. Else, this quiz would be about Willie Mays and Yogi Berra and Eddie Murray and George Foster. Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. Mookie Wilson: 19.0, 4308 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson:17.1 12. Jon Olerud: 16.5 * * 15. McReynolds: 14.3 ** T23. Gary Carter: 10.3 ** ?? Ed Kranepool: 2.2 ?? Rickey Henderson: 1.0

metirish Feb 06 2013 05:31 PM Re: WARLords

Ok, Olerud is number 12 with only three seasons. Cameron?

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 06:53 PM Re: WARLords

Hard to set a record with a broken face. Not Cammie. Number 10 was the guy that got me interested in this. Definitely stood out from the pack. Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. Mookie Wilson: 19.0, 4308 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson:17.1 12. Jon Olerud: 16.5 * * 15. McReynolds: 14.3 ** T23. Gary Carter: 10.3 ** ?? Mike Cameron: 3.0 ?? Ed Kranepool: 2.2 ?? Rickey Henderson: 1.0

Ceetar Feb 06 2013 07:01 PM Re: WARLords

Ordonez? He put up some nifty defensive WAR and was here a while.

Frayed Knot Feb 06 2013 07:14 PM Re: WARLords

Cleon

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 07:24 PM Re: WARLords

Ceetar wrote: Ordonez? He put up some nifty defensive WAR and was here a while. Oh please. Put a noose around my neck and shoot me in the head. If Ordonez has a lifetime Met WAR of as much as two, I'll buy you a pair of seats behind home plate to any Met game you choose. And you won't have to go with me if you don't want to. This fraud was the worst baseball player I ever had the misfortune of seeing in my lifetime. And the asshole in the front office that threw his weight around to ensure that Rey played every day can still go fuck himself. I know it wasn't Bobby.

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 07:32 PM Re: WARLords

Sheesh, ceetar, poke the bear, whydon'tcha? Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. Mookie Wilson: 19.0, 4308 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson:17.1 12. Jon Olerud: 16.5 13. Cleon Jones, 16.4 * * 15. McReynolds: 14.3 ** T23. Gary Carter: 10.3 ** ?? Mike Cameron: 3.0 ?? Ed Kranepool: 2.2 ?? Rickey Henderson: 1.0 ?? Rey Ordoņez: -0.4

Frayed Knot Feb 06 2013 07:34 PM Re: WARLords

Grote

metirish Feb 06 2013 07:37 PM Re: WARLords

Rusty

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 07:38 PM Re: WARLords

Sheesh, ceetar, poke the bear, whydon'tcha? xxx ?? Rey Ordoņez: -0.4 Whoosh. Saved myself a coupla c-notes. Rey O is my personal Susquehanna Hat Company. But I hadda look up "poke the bear", though. [youtube]THZV5g1CNZM[/youtube]

Ceetar Feb 06 2013 07:43 PM Re: WARLords

Edgy MD wrote: Sheesh, ceetar, poke the bear, whydon'tcha? Haha. just grasping at straws really. I knew Ordonez had a ~4 dWAR in '99 and nearly 3 overall. Didn't know how well the other seasons stood out. Typically just being a SS lowers the bar for what you need to hit to be okay. I suspect it's one of the guys before my time.

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 07:48 PM Re: WARLords

Some good guesses, and you're getting warmer. As you can see, we may have the second 10 mapped out before the top ten. Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. Mookie Wilson: 19.0, 4308 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson:17.1 12. Jon Olerud: 16.5 13. Cleon Jones, 16.4 * * 15. McReynolds: 14.3 16. Grote: 14.1 ** T23. Gary Carter: 10.3 ** 39. Rusty Staub: 5.8 ** ?? Mike Cameron: 3.0 ?? Ed Kranepool: 2.2 ?? Rickey Henderson: 1.0 ?? Rey Ordoņez: -0.4

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 07:57 PM Re: WARLords

Todd Hundley

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 08:06 PM Re: WARLords

Good guess. Hurt by a lot of negative WAR years at the top of his career. Helped by a lot of positive PED years at the other end. But not a top-tenner. Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. Mookie Wilson: 19.0, 4308 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson:17.1 12. Jon Olerud: 16.5 13. Cleon Jones, 16.4 * * 15. McReynolds: 14.3 16. Grote: 14.1 ** T23. Gary Carter: 10.3 ** 30. Hundley: 8.1 ** 39. Rusty Staub: 5.8 ** ?? Mike Cameron: 3.0 ?? Ed Kranepool: 2.2 ?? Rickey Henderson: 1.0 ?? Rey Ordoņez: -0.4

metsmarathon Feb 06 2013 09:01 PM Re: WARLords

agee

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 06 2013 09:22 PM Re: WARLords

Saturday Night Lee-ver?

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 09:25 PM Re: WARLords

I'm not sure how to interpret that. Still killing it in the 11-20 range. Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. Mookie Wilson: 19.0, 4308 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson:17.1 12. Jon Olerud: 16.5 13. Cleon Jones, 16.4 * * 15. McReynolds: 14.3 16. Grote: 14.1 T17. Agee: 13.1 ** T23. Gary Carter: 10.3 ** 30. Hundley: 8.1 ** 39. Rusty Staub: 5.8 ** ?? Mike Cameron: 3.0 ?? Ed Kranepool: 2.2 ?? Rickey Henderson: 1.0 ?? Rey Ordoņez: -0.4

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 06 2013 09:28 PM Re: WARLords

Come on, man.

Edgy MD Feb 06 2013 09:38 PM Re: WARLords

Suddenly feeling horny, but not horny enough. Career Mets WAR 1. David Wright: 39.1 WAR, 5453 PA 2. Darryl Strawberry: 34.4, 4549 3. Carlos Beltran: 30.2, 3640 4. Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.0, 4449 5. Jose Reyes: 27.0, 4840 6. Keith Hernandez: 25.0, 3684 7. Mike Piazza: 22.8, 3941 8. Howard Johnson, 20.3, 4591 9. Mookie Wilson: 19.0, 4308 10. xxx 11. Bud Harrelson:17.1 12. Jon Olerud: 16.5 13. Cleon Jones, 16.4 * * 15. McReynolds: 14.3 16. Grote: 14.1 T17. Agee: 13.1 ** 20. Mazzill: 11.4 ** T23. Gary Carter: 10.3 ** 30. Hundley: 8.1 ** 39. Rusty Staub: 5.8 ** ?? Mike Cameron: 3.0 ?? Ed Kranepool: 2.2 ?? Rickey Henderson: 1.0 ?? Rey Ordoņez: -0.4

MFS62 Feb 06 2013 09:43 PM Re: WARLords

Dykstra? Later

dinosaur jesus Feb 06 2013 09:53 PM Re: WARLords

The Bad Dude.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 06 2013 10:15 PM Re: WARLords

The Good Dude.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 06 2013 11:06 PM Re: WARLords

The underrated dude?

metirish Feb 07 2013 06:00 AM Re: WARLords

Dave Kingman

seawolf17 Feb 07 2013 07:30 AM Re: WARLords

Wayne Garrett.

Gwreck Feb 07 2013 07:46 AM Re: WARLords

John Stearns

Chad Ochoseis Feb 07 2013 11:55 AM Re: WARLords

Vic Sage Feb 07 2013 01:56 PM Re: WARLords

hah! i got it. and i never get it.

Edgy MD Feb 07 2013 07:46 PM Re: WARLords

Sorry, I was on assignment today. John Stearns it is. Pretty amazing, when you recall his career trajectory --- peaking at 26 and being injured for part or all of his last five years.

Frayed Knot Feb 07 2013 08:09 PM Re: WARLords

How the WAR list compares to the CPF Rankings list among NYM position players WAR list 1. David Wright 2. Darryl Strawberry 3. Carlos Beltran 4. Edgardo Alfonzo 5. Jose Reyes 6. Keith Hernandez 7. Mike Piazza 8. Howard Johnson 9. Mookie Wilson 10. John Stearns CPF List: 1. Darryl Strawberry 2. David Wright 3. Mike Piazza 4. Edgardo Alfonzo 5. Cleon Jones 6. Howard Johnson 7. Jose Reyes 8. Ed Kranepool 9. Carlos Beltran 10. Keith Hernandez CPF is furthest off on the high side with Cleon (5th vs 13th) and Kranepool (8th vs ??) lowest on Beltran (9th vs 3rd) and Stearns (20th vs 10th)

smg58 Feb 07 2013 09:43 PM Re: WARLords

It's easy to overlook Stearns because he played on some horrible teams. But he had some surprisingly high OBP years in there, and his 1978 season is much better in hindsight than I remember anybody thinking at the time. The 141 games he played behind the plate in 1978 took their toll however.

Vic Sage Feb 08 2013 07:55 AM Re: WARLords

I loved the Dude. Though he burned briefly, he was a shining star in a dark time.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 08 2013 08:26 AM Re: WARLords

True dat.

G-Fafif Feb 08 2013 08:36 AM Re: WARLords

Defensive WARlords, per B-B Ref, contains some overlap, but looks very different: 1. Bud Harrelson 13.6 2. Jerry Grote 11.2 3. Rey Ordonez 10.0 4. John Stearns 7.9 5. Edgardo Alfonzo 6.1 6. Jose Reyes 4.9 7. Carlos Beltran 4.3 8. Robin Ventura 4.2 9. Kevin Elster 4.0 10. Chris Cannizzaro 3.4 Four shortstops, three catchers, a center fielder, a second/third baseman and a third baseman. Traditional "strength up the middle" positions account for 8.5 of the 10 slots, if we distribute roughly half of Alfonzo to second and half to third. Anyone have Chris Cannizzaro in the defensive WAR Top 10 pool?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 08 2013 08:45 AM Re: WARLords

Now that would have been a killer kwiz.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 08 2013 09:23 AM Re: WARLords

G-Fafif wrote: Anyone have Chris Cannizzaro in the defensive WAR Top 10 pool? Me. I knew that because I had stumbled upon that fact in the last few months while looking up something else about CC. Wanna know what's even more amazin' about CC's Mets dWAR than that he's even in the top 10? He accumulated his career Mets dWAR in about one full season's worth of plate appearances. So CC might have the best Mets career dWAR pound for pound.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 08 2013 11:51 AM Re: WARLords

G-Fafif wrote: Defensive WARlords, per B-B Ref, contains some overlap, but looks very different: 1. Bud Harrelson 13.6 2. Jerry Grote 11.2 One of the reasons Donn Clendenon was glad to be traded to the Mets was because of what he perceived as the Mets' dominant defensive strength up the middle, particularly the outstanding defense provided by Grote, Harrelson and Agee. In fact, Clendenon had already decided, before coming to the Mets, that Grote was the best defensive catcher in all of baseball. Better even than Bench. Ask Lou Brock. He'd agree with Donn. About Grote.

G-Fafif Feb 08 2013 07:09 PM Re: WARLords

"The only defensive catcher in baseball that can't catch." Casey Stengel never met Defensive WAR...and vice-versa. Then again, maybe Casey really was talking about "Canzoneri," not Cannizzaro. “The pitcher throws. Wild pitch. Throws again. Passed ball. Throws again. The ball drops out of the glove. And all the time I am dizzy on account of these runners running around in circles on me and so forth.”

Edgy MD Feb 08 2013 11:38 PM Re: WARLords

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Defensive WARlords, per B-B Ref, contains some overlap, but looks very different: 1. Bud Harrelson 13.6 2. Jerry Grote 11.2 One of the reasons Donn Clendenon was glad to be traded to the Mets was because of what he perceived as the Mets' dominant defensive strength up the middle, particularly the outstanding defense provided by Grote, Harrelson and Agee. In fact, Clendenon had already decided, before coming to the Mets, that Grote was the best defensive catcher in all of baseball. Better even than Bench. Ask Lou Brock. He'd agree with Donn. About Grote. He's not the only one. “If Jerry Grote played for the Reds, I'd be playing third base.” --- Johnny Bench (supposedly)

batmagadanleadoff Feb 09 2013 06:05 AM Re: WARLords

Edgy MD wrote: “If Jerry Grote played for the Reds, I'd be playing third base.” --- Johnny Bench (supposedly) I had always known about that Bench comment. But I was never able to track down the source, or origin of the quote. And I've tried.

Edgy MD Feb 09 2013 06:10 AM Re: WARLords

Yo tambien. Worth remembering, but yeah, worth getting to the bottom of before taking it authoritatively.

Edgy MD Feb 09 2013 08:28 PM Re: WARLords

Obviously we have a ways to go before building a broad confidence in defensive WAR, but it's interesting to see GroTAY within a good season of being the team's all-time top defender. Some guys I mighta guessed before Cannizzaro: Doug Flynn: 1.8 David Wright: 0.3 Mookie Wilson: 0.1 Lenny Dykstra: 2.6 Wayne Garrett: 3.3 Joel Youngblood: 0.8 Lee Mazzilli: -7.1 (!!!) and of course Keith Hernandez: 0.4

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2013 03:47 PM Re: WARLords

btw, David Wright is currently 35th* in career WAR among active players (including pitchers) and, of those ahead of him on the list, only Miguel Cabrera is younger (by 4 months) Of the top 50 active WAR-lords, only: Cabrera 44.4 Total WAR -- will turn 30 in April Wright 39.1 -- turned 30 in Dec Joe Mauer 37.0 -- 30 in April Robinson Cano 34.8 -- turned 30 in October and Justin Verlander 33.6 -- turns 30 next week have yet to play a game as a 30 year old, and all will do so by the opening month of the season. That will leave the under-30 WAR leader as ... Ryan Braun (assuming he can dodge the suspension fairy again this year). * and really he's higher on the list than that as BB-Ref's 'Active' list includes several players who were active in some capacity in 2012 but aren't really active now: Not = Manny Ramirez, Chipper Jones; Vlad Guerrero; Jamie Moyer; Omar Vizquel -- and they might be joined by several others: Rolen, Thome, Damon, Andruw, Oswalt, Giambi who may have already played their last MLB game, only they don't necessarily know it yet.

Edgy MD Feb 11 2013 07:13 PM Re: WARLords

Roy Staiger, 2.1 defensive WAR in 148 games as a Met.