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FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Vic Sage Mar 07 2013 03:31 PM

So i'm up late, watching TV, and DARK CITY comes on. I love DARK CITY. It's the Alex (THE CROW) Proyas SF movie with Rufus Sewell and Jennifer Connelly where reality is not what it appears, and Sewell gradually figures it out. and it got me to thinking about these "alternate reality" type films, where reality is either: * a dream or nightmare (organic or implanted); * a hallucination (mentally or pharmacologically induced); * a virtual reality (in a computer, video game, cyberspace); * a movie/play/tv show/fiction of some kind; or * a creation of aliens; and its the protagonist's journey to figure out what is real (or to free others from a false reality) that drives the plot. Much of the work of Phillip K. Dick was based on a protagonist's misunderstanding of his own reality. No surprise then that some of the better films of this type are based on his work, like TOTAL RECALL. other recent films that come to mind: - INCEPTION - MATRIX - TRUMAN SHOW - STRANGER THAN FICTION - ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND - SUCKER PUNCH - EXISTENZ - 12 MONKEYS - NIGHTMARE ON ELM ST. and some older ones include: - SECONDS - WIZARD OF OZ - A MATTER OF LIFE & DEATH (STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN) The films of David Cronenberg and those of Charlie Kaufman are almost entirely about the subject. what others?

Frayed Knot Mar 07 2013 04:47 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

IDENTITY - 2003

Edgy MD Mar 07 2013 09:10 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

That season of Dallas when Bobby Ewing was dead but then it turned out he wasn't.

El Segundo Escupidor Mar 08 2013 12:18 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

I'm still waiting for a film adaptation of UBIK. The Back to the Future series used this plot element a various points. If we're doing TV as well, r emember the episode of DS9 "Far Beyond the Stars" where Sisko was a sci-fi writer in the 50's? That was a freaking awesome episode. I guess any time-travel or malfunctioning holodeck TNG episode also fits the bill.

Vic Sage Mar 08 2013 07:36 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

i would think that time travel only counts if the protagonist is unaware that they've time travelled, so the world isn't what its supposed to be from their perspective. like maybe PLANET OF THE APES, for instance. If a guy goes back or forward in time on purpose, then his reality is exactly what he intends it to be. Same with Holodeck episodes. Though i wasn't talking about TV, per se (despite title of the thread), there's a difference between, say, TIME TUNNEL and LOST.

Edgy MD Mar 08 2013 10:16 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

What about the waking up and finding out it was all just a dream or computer or something, only to have that final moment where a prop or character from the dream appears in the new supposedly authentic reality, so maybe it wasn't a dream at all! That's sort of the Time Bandits ending. Sort of. You get into TV, you get into every other Twilight Zone episode, seemingly. How 'bout that one where Picard lives a whole lifetime as a flute player in the space of a few seconds?

Vic Sage Mar 08 2013 11:33 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY! Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 08 2013 01:36 PM

. How 'bout that one where Picard lives a whole lifetime as a flute player in the space of a few seconds? i love that episode. But yes, that's why i didn't want to get into TV, because SO many individual episodes of of many fantasy/sf/horror series use it as a concept for 1 or more episodes, that we'd just be talking about tv shows. And i want to hear about movies. as for TIME BANDITS, the "it was all just a dream" thing only happens near the end (if i recall correctly) and then gets immediately reversed when Kevin's parents get blown up by a chunk of evil in the oven. The fact is Kevin never doubted the reality of his adventure for 99% of it, and then the ending proves he was right, so i don't think it counts. BACK TO THE FUTURE? maybe i'm misremembering but isn't MJFox completely aware that he's time travelling? oh, and speaking of TWILIGHT ZONE (alot of their plots did this), there was AN OCCURENCE AT OWL CREEK BRIDGE, which was shown as part of the series but was actually produced independently as a short film. it also reminds me of CARNIVAL OF SOULS, early 60s B&W horror movie about a woman in an accident who doesn't realize she's dead. i don't know anything about IDENTITY. What's the deal there?

Frayed Knot Mar 08 2013 12:30 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Vic Sage wrote: i don't know anything about IDENTITY. What's the deal there? Well if I told you it would ruin the whole surprise. Buncha people (John Cusack & Amanda Peet among them) are forced to stop at a seedy Nevada motel in a pouring rainstorm and stuff starts happening in a 'Ten Little Indians' kinda way. Or does it?

Vic Sage Mar 08 2013 01:33 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

actually, i did see IDENTITY, now that i recall. It was pretty good, and its exactly the kind of movie i'm talking about. although Amanda Peet didn't show her boobies, and she should have. They're very nice.

El Segundo Escupidor Mar 08 2013 02:35 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

That TNG episode was called "Inner Light" and won several awards. Vic Sage wrote: BACK TO THE FUTURE? maybe i'm misremembering but isn't MJFox completely aware that he's time travelling? Part II specifically, where Marty is unaware he's back in an alternate 1985 Hill Valley. But other than only when he was disorientated from being half-asleep/concussed: Marty: I had a horrible nightmare. I dreamed that I went... back in time. It was terrible Lorraine: Well, you're safe and sound now, back in good old 1955. And from Part II: Lorraine: Well, you're safe and sound now. Back on the good old 27th floor.

Frayed Knot Mar 08 2013 02:38 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Vic Sage wrote: actually, i did see IDENTITY, now that i recall. It was pretty good, and its exactly the kind of movie i'm talking about. although Amanda Peet didn't show her boobies, and she should have. They're very nice. I believe that had Seth McFarland chosen to include Amanda in his recent boobies song he would have several entries from which to choose.

Vic Sage Mar 09 2013 07:57 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

THE WHOLE NINE YARDS is particularly good in that respect.

El Segundo Escupidor Mar 09 2013 11:59 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Sliding Doors

RealityChuck Mar 10 2013 07:32 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Welcome Home, Johnny Bristol, where Martin Landau (as the title character) discovers a vast conspiracy that conflicts with reality. The final scene makes it fit the criteria. Eerie, Indiana had an episode called "Reality Takes a Holiday" (written by the creator of Mr. Bill on SNL, Vance Degeneris, Ellen's brother) where Marshall is transported to a world where he's the actor in a TV show called "Eerie, Indiana." You can watch it on Hulu. The Discrete Charm of the Bourgeoisie plays with this a lot, as do others of Luis Bunuel's films. In Belle de Jour, for instance, it's ambiguous as to whether Belle is actually a prostitute or if it's a woman's sexual fantasy. It's also one possible interpretation of Simon of the Desert.

sharpie Mar 11 2013 01:03 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

GROUNDHOG DAY meets most of those criteria.

metsmarathon Mar 11 2013 01:09 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

if you're doing tv, then clearly, newhart must be on the list, right? as far as movies which may be unmentioned, i believe that memento would fit the bill.

RealityChuck Mar 11 2013 09:20 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Doctor Who did it in "Kinda," probably its worst episode ever. The concept was often used in The Prisoner, most notably in "Schizoid Man," where they convinced the Number 6 that he was a spy impersonating the real Number 6. Solaris (all versions, including the George Clooney one) deals with the concept. The nature of what is reality in very ambiguous.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 12 2013 12:29 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Shutter Island gets in under the delusion/it's-all-a-game aegis. Would American Psycho count?

Vic Sage Mar 14 2013 08:30 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

yeah, SHUTTER ISLAND is exactly the kind of thing i'm thinking of. MEMENTO is an interesting slant on this theme. The reality doesn't change, and he knows he doesn't know what it really is, but he just keeps becoming more and more aware of the truth. A great movie. SOLARIS (the Russian version) put me to sleep, so i'll have to take your word that it fits. GROUNDHOG DAY, while a great movie, isn't exactly what i'm talking about. the key question to ask is: "what does the protagonist think his reality is, and does the movie reveal him to be wrong?" In GD, Murray understands early on that his reality has changed and then spends the movie trying various ways to deal with that fact, to get back to his own "time" (as it were), to bang Andie McDowell (a worthy ambition) and then simply to live the best he can in his altered reality. This zen-like approach finally breaks the curse and he's restored. But the protagonist is never really wrong, nor does he have any doubts, about the fact that his reality has changed or what it has become, even if he has trouble accepting it at first. As for DISCREET CHARM, most European art films, and certainly most of Bunuel's, have a surreal attitude toward reality and so could technically fall within my definition. But they are primarily metaphorical and symbolic, with no attempt to construct a reality that reflects the world, so how can the protagonist be wrong about his reality when no reality is posited? So i'm arbitrarily excluding them. With SLIDING DOORS, i know what the story is about, offering 2 versions of reality based on changing the results of a single decision, but unless the Paltrow character thinks she's in one reality while she's in the other, it doesn't fit either. The essence of the conflict i'm trying to identify in films is that between the protagonist and what they understand to be their world. What happens when the world isn't what you thought it was? Films that deal with that question are the ones i'm looking for.

Mets – Willets Point Mar 14 2013 09:26 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

El laberinto del fauno.

Edgy MD Mar 14 2013 09:31 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Of course, you're spoiling all these movies for me. Except Sliding Doors. I was never going to see that anyway.

Fman99 Mar 14 2013 07:43 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Two that come to mind from my younger days are TRON and JACOB'S LADDER.

Vic Sage Mar 15 2013 11:07 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

JACOB'S LADDER, absolutely. TRON? Maybe from the perspective of the lifeforms in the computer, but not from the protagonist's POV. For him, its like GROUNDHOG DAY... stuck in a different reality, but aware of it and trying to find a way out. He is not "wrong" about his reality; it simply changed and he understands that. So the core conflict i'm talking about (being wrong about the world) isn't there. PAN'S LABRYNTH? I don't remember it well enough to know if it fits within the paradigm.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 15 2013 08:52 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

PAN'S LABYRINTH was more akin to NEVERENDING STORY-- the protagonist disappears into a fantasy world that borders on this one (and likely does not exist in any actual way), via her imagination.

Edgy MD Mar 15 2013 10:18 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

How about films where the environmental reality is pretty much stable, but the protagonist him- or herself turns out not to be who they think they are? Examples include... spoilers... Angel Heart The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus Maybe Blade Runner if you believe one or two of the eleven cuts circulating of this film are meant to imply in the end that Decker is a replicant. Maybe Total Recall, depending on your read of the ending, but I guess it qualifies one way or the other.

RealityChuck Mar 17 2013 02:58 PM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

I just saw Alan Ayckbourn's play Woman in Mind, where there's a bit of that question as to what is real and what is not, and where the real and the fantasy intertwine. In fiction, Robert Heinlein's "Them" fits the definition.

Vic Sage Mar 18 2013 08:05 AM Re: FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW... AND I HAVE TOUCHED THE SKY!

Edgy MD wrote: How about films where the environmental reality is pretty much stable, but the protagonist him- or herself turns out not to be who they think they are? Examples include... spoilers... Angel Heart The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus Maybe Blade Runner if you believe one or two of the eleven cuts circulating of this film are meant to imply in the end that Decker is a replicant. Maybe Total Recall, depending on your read of the ending, but I guess it qualifies one way or the other. oh absolutely. i even mentioned TOTAL RECALL (and all the works of PKDick) in my initial post. though i absolutely refuse to accept the "deckard is a replicant" theory that Ridley seems to be putting forth in his final cut. but ANGEL HEART? totally. good call. Having seen DR. PARNASSUS 3 times, i still don't know what its about, so i'm not sure it qualifies.