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Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Frayed Knot Mar 12 2013 07:51 AM

First of all, who knew that word was spelled U-O instead of the more common O-U ? Had to look that one up myself. Main point -- OK, I get how using these things are going to be the savior of mankind and all that, and how it'll be 87 degrees in Vermont in January by next decade if we don't all install them immediately (yeah, right!), and how they'll even save me money in the long run due to their increased life-span over the older, evil Thomas Edison specials. I really do get all that. But then I'm taking one of these things out of the box recently to replace one of the incandescent jobbies, except that I note the fine print saying not to use these on anything controlled with a dimmer ... or a timer ... or a photo-electric cell ... or in a place where they'll be completely recessed, ... or for use on Tuesdays ... or south of the Mason-Dixon line (OK, I may be making those last two up but there were several other restrictions). And not only do I have several places where my lights are recessed, or controlled by dimmers and photo-electrics, but when I did place one of the these corkscrew-looking dudes (supposedly a 100 watt version) in a lamp which didn't violate any of the above no-nos, I found that there wasn't enough light for me to read under this thing even if I had my eyesight from thirty years ago. So now that it's illegal to manufacture the original-style bulbs (meaning that when the existing supply runs out there'll be no alternative) what exactly are we supposed to do for lights with dimmer switches ... or timers ... or photo-electric triggers ... or if we want to, y'know, read or something?

MFS62 Mar 12 2013 07:57 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Buy as many of the old style bulbs as you can find and stockpile them like an Apocalypse planner stockpiles ammo and water. As for being able to read under them, please tell my wife that all those 40 Watt bulbs she has bought don't give off enough light for reading. Later

metirish Mar 12 2013 07:59 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

I hate them.....didn't know about the dimmer situation...thanks for that....at least for me when I have used them they never seem to last....one area was on a dimmer switch though.....I'm not sold on them saving me money at all.

metsmarathon Mar 12 2013 08:08 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

the problem with using fluorescents with the dimmers or the photo-electric sensors is that they'll burn out super-fast. the ballast can't apparently handle the higher resistance for the dimmer and i guess the same could be true of the photo electric (or it'll have a lot of on-off-on-off nonsense). fluorescents don't always make hte best reading lights because the big bulky ballast tends to get in the way of the light going downwards, i suspect. also, with the coil-ed up bulb, a fair amount of hte light emitted is getting sent inwards to the other side of the coil, which clearly does you no good. i think that if you really want to replace a 100-watt incandescent, you need to get a fluorescent with the lumens of perhaps a 150-watt incandescent. the "this replaces that" light bulb math never seems to work. for a good reading light, you can still go for halogens, which i believe are still legal, and give off a wonderful light. they cost more than incandescents which are super-duper cheap, but last longer. they're not much of an improvement, if any, for efficeincy's sake, but, again, it's a superior light source. and if you're really adventurous, you can go for the LED bulbs. they're expensive, but super-efficient. not sure about the quality of light, or if they have the same nigh-imperceptable flicker thing that bugs me about led christmas lights. but they're certainly the future. and they are getting cheaper, i suppose, though not nearly fast enough. they do make dimmerable fluorescents. i have them in my basement family room. though, in all honesty, i can't wait for them to burn out so i can upgrade to either halogen or LED.

Edgy MD Mar 12 2013 08:16 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

My church has gone all fluorescent. On cloudy days, it's like a dungeon in there. Nobody can see the hymnals without burying their noses into them. Yeah, it seems like the light is going in the wrong direction. I'm sure the current problems are solveable, but, well, hurry up.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 12 2013 08:24 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Give me incandescence or give me death.

TransMonk Mar 12 2013 08:30 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We’re going to live on! We’re going to survive! Today we celebrate our Incandescence Day!

Ceetar Mar 12 2013 08:32 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

I buy the Fluorescents when something burns out. These are the ones that take a couple of minutes to get to full brightness right? Never really had a problem, but I guess you can't go by me. I don't think I've ever thought to myself "Damn, that's not enough light" except when taking photos.

seawolf17 Mar 12 2013 08:40 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

We switched to the new bulbs in our livingroom and they need to either be on all the way or off all the way or they buzz. (I really should just change the dimmer to a regular switch.)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 12 2013 08:44 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Ceetar wrote: I buy the Fluorescents when something burns out. These are the ones that take a couple of minutes to get to full brightness right? Never really had a problem, but I guess you can't go by me. I don't think I've ever thought to myself "Damn, that's not enough light" except when taking photos. It's not the amount of light, necessarily, but the quality of it. There's just no comparison.

Ceetar Mar 12 2013 08:54 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ceetar wrote: I buy the Fluorescents when something burns out. These are the ones that take a couple of minutes to get to full brightness right? Never really had a problem, but I guess you can't go by me. I don't think I've ever thought to myself "Damn, that's not enough light" except when taking photos. It's not the amount of light, necessarily, but the quality of it. There's just no comparison. I don't think I've ever noticed the quality of household lights. That sounds like one of those things where people are just anti "It's not what I grew up with/am used to!"

seawolf17 Mar 12 2013 08:55 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Oh, and the "fluorescent bulbs cause cancer" study? STONY BROOK, BITCHES. WE MAKE ALL THE SCIENCE. http://health.usnews.com/health-news/ne ... ancer-risk

Vic Sage Mar 12 2013 09:13 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

yeah, but why can't you fucking beat Albany, god damn it? Another year we have the best record in the conference and piss away our shot at the NCAA with a premature departure from the conference tourny. I don't think I've ever noticed the quality of household lights. That sounds like one of those things where people are just anti "It's not what I grew up with/am used to!" oh, and that's bullshit. You can tell because Ceetar said it. Whether its defined as "quality" or "quantity" of light, the fact is its harder to read (or see) with those new corkscrew lights at the same wattage as a standard bulb. It just is.

Ceetar Mar 12 2013 09:46 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Vic Sage wrote: yeah, but why can't you fucking beat Albany, god damn it? Another year we have the best record in the conference and piss away our shot at the NCAA with a premature departure from the conference tourny. I don't think I've ever noticed the quality of household lights. That sounds like one of those things where people are just anti "It's not what I grew up with/am used to!" oh, and that's bullshit. You can tell because Ceetar said it. Whether its defined as "quality" or "quantity" of light, the fact is its harder to read (or see) with those new corkscrew lights at the same wattage as a standard bulb. It just is. because arguments like "it just is" aren't bullshit? Like i said in my first comment though, you can't really go by me, because I don't find it harder to read or see with this light or that light or simply by the light of the moon.

Edgy MD Mar 12 2013 09:51 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

"It just is" isn't meant to be an argument. If you want him to elaborate, you could easily ask him in a way that's 90% less obnoxious than suggesting he's close-minded old man.

Ceetar Mar 12 2013 10:01 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Edgy MD wrote: "It just is" isn't meant to be an argument. If you want him to elaborate, you could easily ask him in a way that's 90% less obnoxious than suggesting he's close-minded old man. I wasn't directly that comment at anyone, I was merely theorizing that maybe it's because _I_ am younger and maybe have younger/fresher eyes and it's not something I've ever noticed. Is it different, or is it better? I was just thinking out loud. So yes, please elaborate if you like, because I'm curious. What is it about the light that's different/better? is it a color/hue thing? a breadth of coverage thing?

Edgy MD Mar 12 2013 10:02 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Ceetar's younger, everybody.

Frayed Knot Mar 12 2013 10:20 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 12 2013 12:30 PM

My larger point here wasn't to put down the whole concept of fluorescent bulbs or to cling unreasonably to the century-old design of the Edison specials simply because that was the bulb I grew up with or anything, but that, with all the restrictions and limitations of the supposedly new and improved model, how stupid is it that the government didn't just encourage replacement of the old ones but made it a crime to make them anymore. Are we in for an incandescent bulb black market soon where we can get them in some back alley (maybe behind the now legal pot store) because the gov't doesn't trust us to make the "correct" decision as to what to put in our lamps?

seawolf17 Mar 12 2013 10:59 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Vic Sage wrote: yeah, but why can't you fucking beat Albany, god damn it? Another year we have the best record in the conference and piss away our shot at the NCAA with a premature departure from the conference tourny. Oh, don't even get be started. For the life of me, I can't understand why we can't get over the hump. SO FRUSTRATING. 2010: 22-10, top seed, lost to BU in the semis by 7, lost NIT opening round to Illinois by 10 2011: 15-17, 5 seed, lost to BU in finals by 2 on a ticky-tack last-second foul 2012: 22-10, top seed, lost to Vermont in the finals by 7, lost NIT opening round to Seton Hall by 2 2013: 23-6, top seed, lost to Albany in the semis by 2 I hope these guys rip it up in the NIT.

Vic Sage Mar 12 2013 12:17 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: "It just is" isn't meant to be an argument. If you want him to elaborate, you could easily ask him in a way that's 90% less obnoxious than suggesting he's close-minded old man. I wasn't directly that comment at anyone, I was merely theorizing that maybe it's because _I_ am younger and maybe have younger/fresher eyes and it's not something I've ever noticed. Is it different, or is it better? I was just thinking out loud. So yes, please elaborate if you like, because I'm curious. What is it about the light that's different/better? is it a color/hue thing? a breadth of coverage thing? i make no representations as to my understanding of the various properties of light. I failed "Physics for Poets" at Seawolf's school. And my eyes are old, with failing sight. But what i do know is that a regular 60 watt bulb in the lamp in my "library" (a nook in my living room with a rocking chair, a bookcase and a standing lamp) gives me enough light to read by, but now, with one of those corkscrewy thingamabobs of the exact same wattage, it does not. Same eyeballs, different result. Now whether it's quality or quantity of light, or simply a design flaw, i have no idea. But there is a distinct difference in my reading experience.

metsmarathon Mar 12 2013 02:23 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

i think, too, that a fair amount of it is that the fluorescensts are softer light than even the soft white incandescent bulbs. what that means, i don't really know. but it could have a bit to do with it. i should point out, though, that the "60-watt equivalent" fluorescent bulbs put out less light than the 60 watt incandescent. it says so right on the packaging. a 60 watt incandescent may put out (fake number time) 800 lumens while a "60 watt equivalent" fluorescent puts out (more fake numbers) 750. another consideration may be the color that the light emits. i'm just making shit up right now, but its conceivable that the output from a "dim" fluorescent may just be at a color that the eyes are less attuned to, and therefore which appears to be less bright. oh, speaking of dimming... turns out that if you have a non-dimmable CFL on a dimmer switch, you risk fire. so, um, i'll have to check that when i get home...

Ceetar Mar 12 2013 02:35 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

metsmarathon wrote: oh, speaking of dimming... turns out that if you have a non-dimmable CFL on a dimmer switch, you risk fire. so, um, i'll have to check that when i get home... Just guessing now, but I think if you don't ever dim it you're fine. Having the slider all the way has to be the same as just on/off right? It's the reducing the power to it that gets tricky. I have one of those tri-level fluorescents in the living room lamp. I've already burnt the thing out once, or at least, I burnt out the higher levels and then I was never sure if I had the light on high or just off and figured that was bad. They also say not to use while directly in contact with water. I thought that one was obvious.

Frayed Knot Mar 12 2013 02:37 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

metsmarathon wrote: i should point out, though, that the "60-watt equivalent" fluorescent bulbs put out less light than the 60 watt incandescent. it says so right on the packaging. a 60 watt incandescent may put out (fake number time) 800 lumens while a "60 watt equivalent" fluorescent puts out (more fake numbers) 750. So in other words, the supposed advantages aren't as large as those who use that benefit to criminalize the alternative claim they are since you now need a higher power bulb just to mimic the light generated by a smaller incandescent. How very self-serving and governmental of them. oh, speaking of dimming... turns out that if you have a non-dimmable CFL on a dimmer switch, you risk fire. so, um, i'll have to check that when i get home... IOW, dimmer switches should now be illegal as well since they represent a fire hazard unless you use bulbs which are no longer legal.

Ceetar Mar 12 2013 02:41 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

This article itself is 3 years old so I imagine there have been even further advancements, but Incandescents are hardly illegal or disappearing, so if that's what you like, go for it. [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/business/energy-environment/06bulbs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 I don't know if you can make anything from this, but the one on the far left is fluorescent.

Frayed Knot Mar 12 2013 03:38 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Ceetar wrote: This article itself is 3 years old so I imagine there have been even further advancements, but Incandescents are hardly illegal or disappearing, so if that's what you like, go for it. Well three years does make a lot of difference. They ARE (as of some time last year) now illegal to manufacture which means you will be unable to purchase any (presumably forever) once the current stock runs out; a situation that wouldn't be so bad except that the alternatives we're being forced into are NOT always as good as claimed for some uses and CAN'T be used as a replacement in others. That this was all done under the (rather dubious) claim that it'll help save the planet, and with the mindset that customers are too stupid to opt for the choice that we, the all-knowing/all-wise government, want them to make so we're simply going to criminalize the other choice, makes it particularly frustrating.

Nymr83 Mar 12 2013 05:12 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Vic Sage wrote: yeah, but why can't you fucking beat Albany, god damn it? Another year we have the best record in the conference and piss away our shot at the NCAA with a premature departure from the conference tourny. I don't think I've ever noticed the quality of household lights. That sounds like one of those things where people are just anti "It's not what I grew up with/am used to!" oh, and that's bullshit. You can tell because Ceetar said it. Whether its defined as "quality" or "quantity" of light, the fact is its harder to read (or see) with those new corkscrew lights at the same wattage as a standard bulb. It just is. I was going to come into this thread and rip some government busy-bodies for sticking us with inferior lightbulbs, but thats not nearly as important as ripping a few Stonybrook fans! I was in Albany (my alma mater) this weekend for reasons unrelated to basketball, but was happy to see those fuckers lose, as their team (or at least fans) were staying at my hotel and were very annoying. it was great watching them all go home LOSERS after being too noisy the night before for a hotel filled with adults.

d'Kong76 Mar 12 2013 07:41 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

I'm ok with the new lights for the most part. Feel I like the ones that are more 'daylight' like instead of soft white which just aren't often bright enough. Had to get a new garage door opener a few months back and the installer told me not to use the new bulbs in it. Said they have a computer chip in them and once in awhile can cause door to open unexpectedly. Went out and bought a dozen oldies but goodies, but felt kinda like a dick for buying that piece of advice.

Frayed Knot Mar 12 2013 10:40 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Kong76 wrote: I'm ok with the new lights for the most part. And for the most part so am I. But there are some circumstances where they're simply not useful, or practical (or safe apparently). The problem comes where instead of simply promoting the curly lights as a better alternative, the ding-dongs in DC went and criminalized manufacturing of the old ones so as they can claim they're on the leading edge to save the planet (of which this law will do virtually nothing).

Edgy MD Apr 04 2013 07:44 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

From DeadSpin: Is there anything worse than the packaging that light bulbs come in? When you pick up a 4-pack and walk around the store, those bulbs will always try to slip out and create an embarrassing situation. Once you get them home, though, the packaging turns into something like those Chinese fingercuffs. You can't pry them out of that paper sleeve without the fear of crushing the bulb and tearing your hand to ribbons. Half the time, once I get one out, I've busted the filament during the struggle and the bulb is no good. Big Bulb probably keeps it that way to increase profits. It gets worse. As part of a shadowy bit of collusion between BIG BULB and BIG GUBMINT, regular lightbulbs are quietly disappearing from store shelves. They're being phased out in favor of compact fluorescent bulbs, which are better for the environment but possess NO OTHER REDEEMING QUALITIES. They're fucking awful. The national suicide rate will jump by 900 percent in the next three years and horrible lighting is the reason why. I had to find normal-ass light bulbs online because the store got rid of all of them. And while normal light bulbs have many terrible attributes—they're fragile, they scare the shit out of me when I turn on a light and one of them pops and suddenly burns out, they get stuck in the socket, and everyone has burned his hand on a light bulb at least 10 times in his life—at least they give your room a warm, pleasant kind of light. Everything else is fucking prison lighting. THESE LIBERAL TREEHUMPERS ARE KILLING THE NATIONAL MOOD.

Ceetar Sep 04 2013 09:16 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

The chandelier in the dining room of the new place has 8 60W incandescent bulbs. On a dimmer. The thing basically radiates heat and even the light switchplate is hot. The kitchen features 6 65W incandescent floodlights. The previous owners left us the last power bill to take a look at. $250 for electricity.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2013 11:28 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Ceetar wrote: The chandelier in the dining room of the new place has 8 60W incandescent bulbs. On a dimmer. The thing basically radiates heat and even the light switchplate is hot. The kitchen features 6 65W incandescent floodlights. The previous owners left us the last power bill to take a look at. $250 for electricity. We've talked about this here before, forget the details. Nothing electric like switches or outlets should be warm. I have 4-5 floodlights in kitchen too. If I'm not awake when making coffee a flip of them on brings ya back to reality really quickly.

Frayed Knot Sep 04 2013 11:52 AM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Yeah, that lightplate=hot thing is a warning sign above and beyond just the electric bills.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 04 2013 12:00 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

We had a hot fusebox thingy along with involuntary dimming issues and that electricy smell earlier this summer. Turns out one of our fuses was literally melting and taking down other fuses with it. Was a quick fix by an electrician but a little scary as it happened.

Ceetar Sep 04 2013 12:09 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Frayed Knot wrote: Yeah, that lightplate=hot thing is a warning sign above and beyond just the electric bills. yeah, definitely. It was my first warning, and then I took at look (And counted) the light bulbs. yeah, luckily only 3 lights come at once, so it's only bright on one side. It's recessed lighting though, and I'm not sure if I can find CFLs that are as big as the ones in there now so I'm probably going to be left with space. Of course, turns out the back two outlets in the bedroom aren't grounded. poo.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2013 12:28 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

JCL, send ceets the name of your wiring guy, pronto.

Frayed Knot Sep 04 2013 12:56 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Six sixty watt bulbs shouldn't be enough to be the source of the problem. That it sounds like more light than you need there is a secondary problem, not the main one. And if you go back to the beginning of this thread, what got me started on the topic was finding out that fluorescents aren't supposed to be used with dimmers or be recessed. LED lights are the new coming thing and should be a lot cheaper (both to buy and use) than either the incandescents or fluorescents but I'm not sure if those are going to come with all kinds of restrictions.

Ceetar Sep 04 2013 01:20 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Frayed Knot wrote: Six sixty watt bulbs shouldn't be enough to be the source of the problem. That it sounds like more light than you need there is a secondary problem, not the main one. And if you go back to the beginning of this thread, what got me started on the topic was finding out that fluorescents aren't supposed to be used with dimmers or be recessed. LED lights are the new coming thing and should be a lot cheaper (both to buy and use) than either the incandescents or fluorescents but I'm not sure if those are going to come with all kinds of restrictions. 8 actually. Perhaps the dimmer technology draws in more power/heat or something? Either way, cutting 480 total watts down to the 96 with 8 12-watt LED bulbs (to utilize the dimmer) should be significant. similar lumens. (which is what you need to look at, when someone noted earlier in this thread that the "60 Watt Replacement" stuff doesn't always correlate.) It's only like $8 more than buying 8 8-Watt LED bulbs. But yeah, not sure I need all that brightness. I could go CFL and switch out the dimmer I suppose. Or buy a whole new chandelier but that's probably more expensive than I want right now. I do like the LEDs more though, they're coming down but it's still more than I'm willing to spend for the other lights that aren't on the dimmer. (I missed the recessed part, they're not supposed to be recessed?) I haven't seen many restrictions for LEDs yet, and hell, you can do things like change the colors on a whim and control them from your smartphone and make the inside of your house look like a rave even if you're not home. ([url]https://www.meethue.com/en-US) on the restrictions thing, I'd wondered this too. I've got outdoor lights on a timer, and I'd love to add some more because it gets real dark at night. Don't want to overload the timer, so i figured low-watt LEDs, but although the timer specifically says it doesn't work with florescent, I doubt it's ever heard of LEDs to prohibit/allow them.

Frayed Knot Sep 04 2013 01:28 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Ceetar wrote: 8 actually. Perhaps the dimmer technology draws in more power/heat or something? . But, again, the excess heat is a sign of a problem and I don't think merely the bulbs can be the cause of it.

Ceetar Sep 04 2013 01:34 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: 8 actually. Perhaps the dimmer technology draws in more power/heat or something? . But, again, the excess heat is a sign of a problem and I don't think merely the bulbs can be the cause of it. yeah, perhaps not. Going to change the bulbs regardless, but might be worth taking a look at that when I ground the back outlets and switch the remaining 2-prongs to 3-prongs.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2013 02:12 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Frayed Knot wrote: But, again, the excess heat is a sign of a problem and I don't think merely the bulbs can be the cause of it. I agree, and a lot of house fires are caused by screwy electric.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2013 02:37 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

When Carter is posting as Carter, you listen. Get a dude in there. Your home inspector should be able to get somebody professional, it won't cost as much as you think, and we won't all have to worry about you whenever you fail to post for a few hours. The best part is looking over his shoulder as he examines your wiring and cries, "OH, DEAR LORD! HOLY CRAP! YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE NOT DEAD!"

Rockin' Doc Sep 04 2013 07:37 PM Re: Fluorescent Light Bulbs

Ceetar, you need to get an electrician to check the wiring on the dimmer for the chandelier as soon as possible. In the mean time, it is probably best not to use the offending light and switch until it has been checked out by a professional electrician. As Frayed, Edgy, and KC have already stated, an electrical light switch should not get hot when in use. Our house has a chandelier in the formal dining room that has 12 - 60 watt bulbs on a dimmer switch. We truthfully don't use the room and chandelier all that much, but in the 16 years since we built the house the switch has never been warm to the touch, no matter how long the lights were on. Best to be safe and get the light checked out.