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Batting Magadan Leadoff (split from Television Baseball)
| vtmet Mar 19 2013 12:58 PM |
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I just wanted to point out that your username would have been the perfect example to counter the Mets Merized Online article from yesterday titled: "How On Base Percentage Directly Relates to Runs Scored"... http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/03/fe ... cored.html I'm not saying that OBP is not important, but it's only a contributing factor to batting leadoff and/or scoring runs...A slow singles hitter with a High OBP is not going to score as often as a faster hitter with Extra Base hit power that may have a slightly lower OBP but still a decent OBP... Dave Magadan had a career .390 OPB but his "162 game average" for runs scored was 53 runs; Juan Pierre (fast guy, no power) has a career .346 OBP but his "162 game average" for runs scored is 89 runs; Jose Reyes has a career .342 OBP but his "162 game average" for runs scored is 110 runs. I could be wrong, but my math skills are telling me that out of the 3 guys, the one with the highest OBP would be the crappiest Leadoff hitter of the 3... To relate to the 1988 team....Mookie had a crappy career OBP of only .314, and his "162 game average" for runs scored was still 84 runs, and he barely had more power than Pierre...
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| Edgy MD Mar 19 2013 02:09 PM Re: Television Baseball |
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This may deserve a differmint thread.
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| batmagadanleadoff Mar 19 2013 02:13 PM Re: Television Baseball |
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Bill James, in one of his 1980's abstracts, had made this same criticism about Magadan. Of course, Magadan batted 6th, 7th or 8th in about one third of all his Mets starts. That had to reduce his runs scored total. By the time Magadan was playing regularly, Mookie was gone (Dykstra, too) and the Mets just didn't have anybody even in Mag's area code as far as getting on base (.417, .378, .390). Mag's three-year OBP for the years 1990-92 was just shy of .400 at .396.; as far as I'm concerned, his misuse, by a pennant contender, no less, represented a colossal and costly under-utilization of talent. Less Harrelson/Torborg and more Earl Weaver is what I advocate - take advantage of a player's good skills. Mag's ability to get on base was MVP caliber. Also, the Mets had nobody on those teams with Reyes's offensive skill set, but if they did and I was in charge, I'da battedmagadanleadoff, nevertheless. Batting orders are not made in a vacuum: they're dependent on the composition of the rest of the team. I wouldn't advocate battingmagadanleadoff on a team with Rickey Henderson, for example, but on those early '90's teams....
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| batmagadanleadoff Mar 19 2013 02:22 PM Re: Television Baseball |
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...continued
If I was managing a team that was destined to generate a walk, a single and a home run, all in the same half inning, I'd want the home run to be the last of those three events. Wouldn't you?
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| vtmet Mar 19 2013 05:32 PM Re: Television Baseball |
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depends on the cast of characters and the situation... For one thing, I tend to favor the idea of a fast guy with good "Total Bases" ability batting leadoff...Someone that can put themselves into scoring position without anyone else's help (which would favor Reyes)...and then batting 2nd, particularly against a LHP, is a good place for a guy that takes a lot of pitches and get on base (that would favor Magadan 2nd)...and I actually prefer a guy like Juan Pierre batting 8th in the NL (or 9th in the AL) that way, if he gets on base, he's going to either get bunted to 2nd by the pitcher or he's going to put pressure on the pitcher with his speed to improve the Total Bases leadoff hitter to see more fastballs...Batting 3rd, I kind of like a Murphy/Keith type with a Vlad Guerrero type batting cleanup (somebody that puts fear into the pitcher and may not have a great OBP, but isn't going to get struck out either)... As far as LHP vs RHP, it's a lot easier to steal or hit triples vs a LHP so I'd lean more on speed vs RHP...and a little more towards RH'd guys with "pop in their bats" and OBP guys vs LHP...Similar to the way that Davey Johnson played it (Lenny-leadoff; Wally-2nd vs the RHP; Mookie/Mitchell-leadoff; Teufel/Mitchell-2nd vs the LHP)... http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams ... ders.shtml
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| vtmet Mar 19 2013 06:48 PM Re: Television Baseball |
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I think that part of what made both Bobby Bonds and Rickey Henderson such effective leadoff hitters was their combination of blazing speed and solid power...Because of their speed, pitchers didn't want to walk them...and they may not have had as good power numbers in the middle of the order... Bonds had 35 "leadoff" Homeruns and 97 Homeruns leading off an inning, and he also had a good amount of doubles, triples, walks and steals...Overall, he had 460 steals and an .824 OPS on his career... http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... Career&t=b Rickey had 81 "leadoff" Homeruns and 142 Homeruns leading off an inning, and he also had a good amount of doubles, triples, walks and steals...Overall, he had 1406 steals and a .820 OPS on his career... http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... Career&t=b Two other guys that had very good speed, but also good (but not great) power were Tim Raines and Carl Crawford...both spent significant parts of their careers, not batting leadoff...Were they as effective batting 3rd as another batter with better power have been? And, is a fast guy with .730-.820 OPS more effective batting 1st, 2nd or 3rd?
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