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Rank Your Champs

Edgy MD Apr 09 2013 08:43 PM

The greatest champions of the Mets era were the 1969 Mets and 1986 Mets. Reasonable minds can disagree on who is foremost of those two, but on the fact that they rank one and two, there can be neither doubt nor debate. There have been 48 other champions in that period. For which teams do you hold the most affection? Feel free to give your top five, your top 10, or your top 48. # Year Team Skipper League 1 1962 New York Yankees Ralph Houk AL 2 1963 Los Angeles Dodgers Walter Alston NL 3 1964 St. Louis Cardinals Johnny Keane NL 4 1965 Los Angeles Dodgers Walter Alston NL 5 1966 Baltimore Orioles Hank Bauer AL 6 1967 St. Louis Cardinals Red Schoendienst NL 7 1968 Detroit Tigers Mayo Smith AL 8 1970 Baltimore Orioles Earl Weaver AL 9 1971 Pittsburgh Pirates Danny Murtaugh NL 10 1972 Oakland Athletics Dick Williams AL # Year Team Skipper League 11 1973 Oakland Athletics Dick Williams AL 12 1974 Oakland Athletics Alvin Dark AL 13 1975 Cincinnati Reds Sparky Anderson NL 14 1976 Cincinnati Reds Sparky Anderson NL 15 1977 New York Yankees Billy Martin AL 16 1978 New York Yankees Bob Lemon AL 17 1979 Pittsburgh Pirates Chuck Tanner NL 18 1980 Philadelphia Phillies Dallas Green NL 19 1981 Los Angeles Dodgers Tom Lasorda NL 20 1982 St. Louis Cardinals Whitey Herzog NL # Year Team Skipper League 21 1983 Baltimore Orioles Joe Altobelli AL 22 1984 Detroit Tigers Sparky Anderson AL 23 1985 Kansas City Royals Dick Howser AL 24 1987 Minnesota Twins Tom Kelly AL 25 1988 Los Angeles Dodgers Tom Lasorda NL 26 1989 Oakland Athletics Tony La Russa AL 27 1990 Cincinnati Reds Lou Piniella NL 28 1991 Minnesota Twins Tom Kelly AL 29 1992 Toronto Blue Jays Cito Gaston AL 30 1993 Toronto Blue Jays Cito Gaston AL # Year Team Skipper League 31 1994 Not held due to players' strike. 32 1995 Atlanta Braves Bobby Cox NL 33 1996 New York Yankees Joe Torre AL 34 1997 Florida Marlins Jim Leyland NL 35 1998 New York Yankees Joe Torre AL 36 1999 New York Yankees Joe Torre AL 37 2000 New York Yankees Joe Torre AL 38 2001 Arizona Diamondbacks Bob Brenly NL 39 2002 Anaheim Angels Mike Scioscia AL 40 2003 Florida Marlins Jack McKeon NL # Year Team Skipper League 41 2004 Boston Red Sox Terry Francona AL 42 2005 Chicago White Sox Ozzie Guillén AL 43 2006 St. Louis Cardinals Tony La Russa NL 44 2007 Boston Red Sox Terry Francona AL 45 2008 Philadelphia Phillies Charlie Manuel NL 46 2009 New York Yankees Joe Girardi AL 47 2010 San Francisco Giants Bruce Bochy NL 48 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Tony La Russa NL 49 2012 San Francisco Giants Bruce Bochy NL

The Second Spitter Apr 09 2013 08:53 PM Re: Rank Your Champs

(Restricting my list to years of active baseball watching). 1. '87 Twins 2. '97 Marlins 3. '92 Blue Jays 4. '91 Twins 5. '03 Marlins

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 09 2013 09:03 PM Re: Rank Your Camps

This is more like my favorite postseasons but whatever '04 BoSox '75 Reds '79 Pirates '91 Twins '01 Dbaggs '90 Reds '85 Royals '81 Dodgers '82 Cardinals

Edgy MD Apr 09 2013 09:06 PM Re: Rank Your Champs

Second Spitter wrote: ]1. '87 Twins Homer Hankie, I see that. Second Spitter wrote: 2. '97 Marlins Most boring series ever. Don't see that. Second Spitter wrote: 3. '92 Blue Jays KAMOOM finish. Second Spitter wrote: 4. '91 Twins You really liked Chili Davis. Second Spitter wrote: 5. '03 Marlins Broke the Yankees. Had a bunch of guys transtioning from one city to another, having neither been there long nor destined to stay long. Strange character. Dontrelle's debut. 1997 Marlins is the toughest call there. I didn't give up on baseball during the strike, but that World Series shook my faith.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 09 2013 09:10 PM Re: Rank Your Champs

Of the teams I've been on this earth to witness: '85 Royals (George Brett, young Saberhagen, and a LOT of lucky breaks) '87 Twins (Hankies, baggies, and a lot of stocky, sluggy dudes) '03 Fish (Out of gratitude, mostly) '04 Red Sox (Ditto) '10 Giants (I liked the pitching, and Panda... at least, the first go-round) Outside of my lifetime? Growing up, I liked the '60s Cards (Bob Gibson seemed like a distant, unknowable deity to me), '70s A's and-- God help me-- the Bronx Zoo MFYs, the latter two for their pirate-crew-level motleyness.

MFS62 Apr 09 2013 09:23 PM Re: Rank Your Champs

The team that beat the MFYs in 1963, because the humiliation caused Mel Allen to lose his voice. 1964 Cards (they beat the MFYs) 1971 and 1979 Pirates (beat 'em Bucs) 2001 Snakes (beat the MFYs in general and Mariano in particular) 2004 Red Sox (I thought it would stop their fans' bitchin', but it didn't) Nothing else, really. Later

Frayed Knot Apr 09 2013 09:32 PM Re: Rank Your Champs

Top 10 chronologically 1968 - Probably the first one I watched a big portion of. Good series with Gibson's then-record 17 Ks then the Tiggers behind Lolich's 3 wins coming back on the Cards 1975 - Even though I was pulling for the BoSox in this one it was just a great all-around series and very much "revived" baseball out of a half-decade or so doldrums caused by the pitching dominant era and the three-peat from an Oakland drawing less than 1 million in home attendance. 1976 - Reds didn't just beat the Yanx, they humiliated them. 1979 - That Pirate team was fun and a comeback from 3-1 always lends some drama to it all 1981 - Need I say why? Yanx not only lost after leading but did so ugly and arguing. Then there was that broken hand in the elevator bullshit and the explanation which would seem childish if coming from a 17 y/o experiencing his first break-up. 1982 - Two very good teams and a good series all around. Would have been happy with either team winning. 1991 - Great series especially games 6 & 7. Only problem was that I only caught part of game 7 as I was at someone else's house and the football fans took over the set because they had bets on the game and refused to miss Chris Berman's halftime schtick. I vowed then never to put myself in that kind of situation again. 2001 - I remember joking (on these very airwaves) before the series started that the Yanx were going to get totally outplayed but win anyway ... and it came damn close to happening. Oh the relief when the 9th inning rally negated what seemed inevitable. 2003 - Yeah, this one was fun too. 2004 - Not actually a good series, but it's memorable just for being the capper to the ALCS and that accomplishment would have been ruined had the series not gone Boston's way. Honorable mention: 1963 & 1964 Bottom Ten (in order of badness): 1962 - Just because 2008 - Unlikable Phillies team and the screwed up weather which chopped up the clinching game just made for an unpleasant WS 1989 - Earthquake screwed everything up obviously. 2006 - The eventual winner shouldn't have even got there 1998 - This one you knew was going to happen because the Padres just weren't that good. 2009 - I think of this one when I hear Yanx fans & various mediots talk about how the MFY strategy of buying FAs doesn't work ... as if this series somehow either didn't happen or doesn't fall into that category 1999 - Braves seemed to just quit and Smoltz even came close to admitting as much 1973 - 1996 - I still cringe at the Met fans who thought this particular MFY team was safe to root for, that "Doc & Darryl" being there trumped all the other evil, and that George was now warmer & fuzzier. Fuck you assholes and I blame your karma-giving ways for the decade that followed. 2000 -

G-Fafif Apr 09 2013 09:45 PM Re: Rank Your Champs

Choosing among World Champions I actually rooted for in their non-Mets World Series... 1. 2002 Angels: Fell hard for Rally Monkeys as they slaughtered MFYs. 2. 2005 White Sox: 88-year drought ended as footnote to Red Sox/Cub angst; underrated sweep. 3. 1971 Pirates: Roberto. Stargell. Blass. Sangy. What a bunch. 4. 1972 A's: Everything about them was wonderful, even after 1973. 5. 2001 Diamondbacks: Bless you boys 11/4/01. 6. 1985 Royals: Eff you Andujar, et al. Overdue reward for KC baseball. 7. 2004 Red Sox: Dull Series, mammoth accomplishment. 8. 1995 Braves: Residual goodwill from 1991-1992 near misses. ATL dead to me since Oct. 1996. 9. 2010 Giants: Swept up in NYG/SFG diehard ride. 10. 2003 Marlins: Likable team, liked even more for who they beat. 11. 1981 Dodgers: Sick of them by then, but they beat who they had to beat finally. 12. 1987 Twins: Eff you Pendleton, et al. They didn't need 1991 really. 13. 1990 Reds: Loved the upset, loved Randy Myers. 14. 1976 Reds: Didn't really like them but loved that they swept their opponent. 15. 1997 Marlins: NL allegiance swayed me over deserving Cleveland fans. 16. 2011 Cardinals: When they won Game Six, I was surprised to realize I was glad. 17. 2012 Giants: Scutaro & Pagan & is it still on? 18. 1988 Dodgers: So I could say we got beat by the best. 19. 2006 Cardinals: See 18.

Edgy MD Apr 09 2013 10:41 PM Re: Rank Your Champs

Frayed Knot wrote: 2004 - Not actually a good series, but it's memorable just for being the capper to the ALCS and that accomplishment would have been ruined had the series not gone Boston's way. Yeah, keep in mind, I'm asking after your favorite champions, rather than championships. Though I insult the Marlins/Indians series, this may well speak to the character of the team gleaned throughout the year, and have relatively little to do with the final series ('cept that they won it).

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2013 05:01 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

The only one that would qualify for me is the 1971 Pirates, winners of the first World Series I ever watched. I loved rooting for Clemente and Stargell.

RealityChuck Apr 10 2013 07:27 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

1. 1979 Pirates (for Clemente alone) 2. 1966 Orioles 3. 1968 Tigers 4. 1962 Yankees (Before I discovered the Mets). I don't usually watch the world series, and the teams I remember most fondly (1967 and 75 Red Sox) were not champions.

Edgy MD Apr 10 2013 07:54 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

I like me my 1980 Phils Pros: [list=1][*]Finally broke free from the 77-78 pattern where they would lose to the Dodgers, who would lose to the Yankees who had beaten the Royals. [/*:m] [*]Steve Carlton's second great Hall-of-Fame year. (I wasn't really paying attention to the first.)[/*:m] [*]The two best third basemen ever squaring off in the World Series against each other, as (it wasn't official yet, but was clear) MVPs, and at the height of their powers.[/*:m] [*]Every great team should have a monster that could hit the ball a mile, but you prayed wouldn't have the ball hit to him. The Phils had one of the monsteriest in Greg Luzinski.[/*:m] [*]First World Series for Lonnie Smith, who somehow seemed to almost always be a part of championship teams.[/*:m] [*]Also, the very notion that, at this point in his career, Smith was used for defense --- for Luzinski.[/*:m] [*]A great playoff series against Houston before that World Series. May have been the greatest playoff series before the Met-Houston series of 1986.[/*:m] [*]Dallas Green, unafraid at that point in his career to go away from the designated closer concept and instead play the hot hand, becomes utterly reliant on Met legend Tug McGraw down the stretch after he has eclipsed Ron Reed and Dickie Noles.[/*:m] [*]Green ends up throwing McGraw in all five playoff games and four of six World Series games, where he has a part in seven decisions, going 1-2 with 4 saves in the post-season.[/*:m] [*]Could only appreciate this in part, but a team's first World Series championship in their 98th season is a big deal. That it was for a crumbling eastern city, with Newark seemingly collapsed, Legionnaires Disease (also called Philadelphia cancer), the city going up against the MOVE movement, yadda-yadda, it must've really been a civic boost.[/*:m] [*]Bake McBride --- was it a beard of giant pork chop sideburns that somehow found each other?[/*:m] [*]The normally unpoetic Ralph Kiner coins his famous description of Garry Maddox that year or thereabouts.[/*:m][/list:o] Cons: [list=1][*]Lent way too much (any) credibility to the stupid Pete Rose mystique. (Schmidt: "He taught us how to win." --- as if they hadn't averaged 95 wins the previous four years.[/*:m] [*]First all-artificial turf series, I believe.[/*:m] [*]Nothing looks as good as it should in synthetic doubleknits and powder blue road uniforms. This goes for the Royals also.[/*:m] [*]Ex-Met Nino Espinosa had to pretend to be injured so they could sneak red-hot September rookie Marty Bystrom on the post-season roster.[/*:m][/list:o] They're my number one. Or number three, as it were.

Mets – Willets Point Apr 10 2013 07:59 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

1. 2004 Red Sox - exciting postseason, end of the so-called curse, great group of idiots 2. 2007 Red Sox - proves that 2004 not a fluke, the fleeting joy of living in "title town" instead of grumpyville 3. 1984 Tigers - first World Series I ever watched, have accrued affection for this team from the lore share by my Michigan-born wife and her family. 4. 2001 Diamondbacks - because they ended the seemingly unstoppable run of the Yankees and did so in an exciting series. 5. 1980 Phillies - I didn't watch much baseball back then but spent a lot of time at my grandparents in Pennsylvania that year and got swept up in Phillies Phever. Plus I like any team that ends a long drought. And Tug, Schmidt, and Carlton are all good guys.

smg58 Apr 10 2013 08:01 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

1984 Tigers: because I won a Strat-o-Matic league with them. 1977-78 Yankees: I don't miss rooting for the Yankees, but I do miss Reggie bars. 1979 Pirates: I loved Stargell almost as much as I loved Reggie. 2004 Red Sox: more for the ALCS, but still. 1990 Reds: I was so sick of hearing about the A's, and they never even had a lead in that series.

dinosaur jesus Apr 10 2013 08:21 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Blue Jays 1993. I lived in Toronto then. Didn't much like it, but enjoyed the team. This season over the year before because of the emergence of Olerud, who was my favorite player. Red Sox 2004. I'd lived in Boston the year before, but always liked them, and damn, it was about time. I never got to go to Fenway, but I did find out there's no actual gas station at the Citgo sign. Thanks a lot, Citgo. Twins, 1987. This was after two years in St. Louis, when I'd come to despise the Cardinals (still like the city, though). And the Twins had a nice '73 Mets "We're not really that good but so what?" vibe. There have been other Series I enjoyed, but more for who lost than who won. I'm in Michigan now, not ready yet to root for the Tigers, but I'll be on the bandwagon if they win this year.

The Second Spitter Apr 10 2013 08:23 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Edgy MD wrote: ]1. '87 Twins Homer Hankie, I see that. Your first is always special, although i wish it was a year earlier. But i also thought Kent Hrbek was the coolest person in the world. Edgy MD wrote: 2. '97 Marlins Most boring series ever. Don't see that. The funny thing is I started rooting for the Injuns in that series, caught up in the Major League hoopla and what-not. And I always believed he would return to the Mets, win a championship and reclaim his rightful place in Mets folklore. Then I realized this was far-fetched, so I switched allegiances around Game 4. When he hit a home-run in Game 7 i knew my Metsian prophecy wouldn't come true. Edgy MD wrote: 4. '91 Twins You really liked Chili Davis. Not far off the money, Edgeworth. I was supa-gay for the West Indian cricket team in those days and in a parallel universe Chili Davis was a member of that team. Edgy MD wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: 2004 - Not actually a good series, but it's memorable just for being the capper to the ALCS and that accomplishment would have been ruined had the series not gone Boston's way. Yeah, keep in mind, I'm asking after your favorite champions, rather than championships. Though I insult the Marlins/Indians series, this may well speak to the character of the team gleaned throughout the year, and have relatively little to do with the final series ('cept that they won it). As much as I appreciated their heroics in the ALCS, I was up at Bond in '04 and there was a proliferation of exchange students from Boston College. A very unpleasant experience. I quickly arrived to conclusion that BoSox fans are one-step remove from YLDBs. Until then I followed a Boston team in another sport but their antics contrived to kill my love for that team.

seawolf17 Apr 10 2013 08:40 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Only four I have any affinity at all for: 1982 St. Louis Cardinals - started my baseball life as a Cardinals fan; still a big soft spot for that team. 2001 Arizona Diamondbacks - natch. 1993 Toronto Blue Jays - watched Joe Carter hit that home run with the Four Seasons (as in Frankie Valli and The) in their dressing room after they played Geneseo's Parents Weekend show that night. 2004 Boston Red Sox - Finally, they could all shut the hell up. And so could MFY fans.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2013 08:43 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

That 1993 Joe Carter home run was the last time I watched a World Series game (other than in 2000) where I cared about the outcome. After the strike, I tried watching the 1995 Series and I realized that my baseball interest was no longer what it had been. So I suppose that home run marked an ending of a phase in my life, although I didn't realize it at the time.

Edgy MD Apr 10 2013 08:45 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

2004 Red Sox are definitely top two or three to me. Pros: [list=1][*]To have the only comeback ever from being down 3-0 in a seven-game series. That'is enough.[/*:m] [*]To have it done to the Yankees, well, that's really, really special.[/*:m] [*]Pedro is such a cartoon character.[/*:m] [*]It just seemed to make the people of Boston better people. It elevated the city.[/*:m] [*]Fenway stood in the face of the mallpark movement.[/*:m] [*]The redemption over the failure of Grady Little.[/*:m] [*]Tim Wakefield's dancing knuckleball, in sudden death extra innings, with his personal catcher on the bench and Jason Varitek doing his best to hang in there.[/*:m] [*]Bill James, Theo Epstein, and the triumph of deep analysis.[/*:m] [*]The aloofest superstar in baseball in left field, and the drama of a team committed/resigned to living with his bullshit.[/*:m] [*]The mystic sock.[/*:m] [*]It's almost like the year could be divided into thirds by who was playing shorstop --- Nomar Garciaparra, Pokey Reese, Orlando Cabrera.[/*:m] [*]That I liked all three of those guys.[/*:m] [*]The emergence of David Ortiz. How can Mo Vaughn happen twice in a row to the same team?[/*:m] [*]Doug Mientkiewicz going in as a defensive replacement at the end, in a poetic way, cancels John McNamara's oversight of 1986.[/*:m] [*]Keith Foulke freezing up at the last moment, afraid to throw the ball to first, and running halfway before underhanding it.[/*:m] [*]Breaking through the psychological wall that was the drought also damaged the psychological notion of Yankee inevitability badly.[/*:m][/list:o] Cons: [list=1][*]Led to the most tremendous bandwagon-jumping movement ever. Either those latecomers were distinctly made un-special, or worse, they collapsed the moral elevation of the greater civis.[/*:m] [*]FOX's whole Bambino curse/Goat curse narrative.[/*:m] [*]The exile of Garciaparra. That's a bad tasting raisin in a sweet tart of a championship.[/*:m] [*]Johnny Damon sapping so much meaning out of the whole shebang by jumping to the Yankees.[/*:m] [*]Doug Mientkiewicz, who I've come to really dislike because of his forced white-guy-skills narrative, grabbing a disproportionate amount of the glory, despite playing really badly.[/*:m][/list:o]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 10 2013 08:53 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Dave Roberts' stolen base. So many little big things.

The Second Spitter Apr 10 2013 09:03 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

2004 Red Sox are definitely top two or three to me. Cons: [list=1][*]Led to the most tremendous bandwagon-jumping movement ever. Either those latecomers were distinctly made un-special, or worse, they collapsed the moral elevation of the greater civis.[/*:m] [*]Fox's whole Bambino curse/Goat curse narrative.[/*:m] [*]The exile of Garciaparra. That's a bad tasting raisin in a sweet tart of a championship.[/*:m] [*]Johnny Damon sapping so much meaning out of the whole shebang by jumping to the Yankees.[/*:m] [*]Doug Mientkiewicz, who I've come to really dislike because of his forced white-guy-skills narrative, grabbing a disproportionate amount of the glory, despite playing really badly.[/*:m][/list:o] + [list][*]Bloody sock fellatio [/*:m] [*]"Fuck all of New York"[/*:m] [*]Fever Pitch. [/*:m][/list:u]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 10 2013 09:19 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

I don't know how you come back from down 0-3 after having your hearts broken a million times in 100 years including a still-raw 2003 beatdown from the same asswipe opponent, in the internet age, and not have it blow into shitty movies, douchebag bandwagoners, etc etc. It's the price of drama today.

Edgy MD Apr 10 2013 09:20 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Yeah, and for all those cons. Most of them were after-the-fact. Waddayagonnado?

batmagadanleadoff Apr 10 2013 10:38 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Just one: the 1971 Pirates. 1971 was my second year of following baseball, but the year when I became absorbed by the sport. It was also the year that I attended my first baseball game – a Mets game (natch) against the eventual WS champs Pirates. By the end of that game, I had memorized the entire Pirate team, down to their uniform numbers, thanks to the info contained in my first Mets program, which reinforced whatever baseball knowledge I had already come by from my constant and daily handling of 1971 baseball cards. I never purchased baseball card packs more intensely than in 1971. I would play wiffle ball with my best friend, also a Mets fan, and would volunteer to be the 1971 Pirates so that he could be the Mets. I thought I was taking the high road, but the truth is that I probably wanted to windmill my bat like the awesome Willie Stargell whenever it was his turn to bat. That year, Stargell, entering his prime, was the most feared Mets opponent, launching Ruthian blasts all over Shea and replacing McCovey and Yaz as the game’s best hitter. Check out Stargell’s run from 1971-75: that’s about as good as it can get without (yet) winning an MVP. The ’71 Pirates featured a past-his-prime Roberto Clemente still playing like he was in his prime (.341 BA, Gold Glove, 5th in MVP voting), the peak of Bob Robertson, poised to become one of the game’s next potent sluggers until injuries derailed his career, frequent all-stars Manny Sanguillen and Al Oliver, and psychedelic Dock Ellis in his breakout year – the NL’s starting pitcher in that year’s all-star game. The ’76 Series tore me up some the way the recent Yanks-Phillies series did for newer Mets fans. I could appreciate the total and thorough humiliation of the MFYs in that series, but what kind of a self respecting Mets fan could ever give props to a Pete Rose Reds team? I don’t watch the WS with anywhere near the same level of interest that I did in my youth, though I’ll catch a game here and there. Expanded playoffs and the Wild Card was the turning point for me.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 10 2013 10:52 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Check out Pops, windmilling his bat: [youtube:2cii39mz]WaDrciZppT0[/youtube:2cii39mz]

Edgy MD Apr 10 2013 11:05 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

The 1971 Pirates also featured a well-past-his-prime Bill Mazeroski, sharing secondbase at this point with the riper Cash and Stennett. Maz would transition directly from playing onto Bill Virdon's coaching staff, before realizing that, to the team's consternation, while he could teach some things, he couldn't teach anybody how to turn the doubleplay like he could. It seemed for a while that a disproportionate number of the best hitters in the seventies were either Pirates, Giants, or players that came out of one of those two systems. They seemed to have access to scouting networks for outfielders both domestic and foreign that nobody else had. Those teams were so stacked that a lot of excellent talents --- George Foster, Dave Kingman, Richie Hebner, Richie Zisk --- had to take their bats elsewhere to show what they could really do.

Frayed Knot Apr 10 2013 11:05 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Then, of course, by the time Stargell did win his (shared) MVP it was in the wrong season and for all the wrong reasons. Nearly 200 ABs shy of Hernandez, he hit 63 points lower and his OBP was 65 points less. He had barely half as many hits (119 to 210) and scored half as many runs (60 to 116), fewer RBIs, zero SBs, and wasn't nearly the fielder at the same position. Held the edge only in HRs (32 to 11) and, naturally, in "intangibles". Keith out-polled him in 1st place votes 10 to 4, but because there were other 1st place votes split among numerous candidates* Stargell obviously got loads of what were almost certainly intangible-inspired 2nd, 3rd & 4th place mentions to make up for the huge 1st place vote gap. Represented by WAR (what is it good for?) Keith led Willie 7.6 to 2.5. WAR leaders that year were actually Winfield, then Joe Niekro then Schmidt all ahead of Keith, but at least that group was separated by mere fractions. Of the 28 NL players receiving Any MVP mention that season, Stargell ranked 24th among them in WAR * Other 1st place votes went to: Dave Winfield - 4 (he finished 3rd overall) Ray Knight - 2 (5th) Joe Niekro (6th), Kent Tekulve (8th), Gary Carter (17th), and Bill Madlock (18th) all took one top vote each

The Second Spitter Apr 11 2013 04:43 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

My particular stance on Boston '04 is that World Series was a 4-0 squash culminating in a week-long Bostonian masturbatory extravaganza. If the Red Sox had came back from 0-3 down against say, the Angels, we would have given it less credence than the Cardinals Lazarus-esque victory in 2011. Thus, we are in effect grandoising the Yankees, and quite frankly there's enough of that going around already. Let's also not forgot their squad was proliferated with juicers.

Edgy MD Apr 11 2013 06:16 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Well, again, we're looking at the team as a whole, not merely the quality of play of the last four games. And yes, I glorify the defeat of the Yankees. You bring down the Yankees, you are an American hero. You deserve parades, holidays, and free shipping and handling for the rest of your days.

Mets – Willets Point Apr 11 2013 07:25 AM Re: Rank Your Champs

Edgy MD wrote: And yes, I glorify the defeat of the Yankees. You bring down the Yankees, you are an American hero. You deserve parades, holidays, and free shipping and handling for the rest of your days.