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Trade Talkin'

batmagadanleadoff Apr 11 2013 10:19 AM

Would you trade Zack Wheeler for this guy? What if that guy's team wanted Wheeler and d'Arnaud?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 11 2013 10:28 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Yes. For D'Arnaud also, must get a catching prospect back

dinosaur jesus Apr 11 2013 10:31 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

I can answer that question the other way around. I own this guy in a fantasy league, and I wouldn't trade him for Wheeler, or even for Wheeler and D'Arnaud. So from the Mets' perspective, I would absolutely trade Wheeler and D'Arnaud for him.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 11 2013 10:37 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

NY Mets GM Sandy Alderson could deal Zack Wheeler, Travis d'Arnaud to snag Miami Marlins slugger Giancarlo Stanton PHILADELPHIA — When the Marlins traded Jose Reyes and Josh Johnson to Toronto last November, Mets officials began asking one another questions that remain in their minds today: Can we get Giancarlo Stanton? Would we trade Zack Wheeler to do it? According to three team sources, the Mets then spent time at the winter meetings debating whether to make Wheeler available in a variety of trades, including for Arizona’s Justin Upton and Kansas City’s Wil Myers. Neither of those outfielders seemed worth the organization’s top pitching prospect, but Stanton is in a different category. Although they do not know if the Marlins will move him (Miami declined to shop Stanton even after the outfielder tweeted about being “pissed off” after the Reyes trade), the Mets continue to monitor the situation, fully realizing that any deal would almost certainly have to include Wheeler and top catching prospect Travis d’Arnaud. Would you trade those blue chippers for a guy who might become the premier slugger of his generation? I say, hell yes, duh, no-brainer, but let’s hear from people whose opinions actually matter. “In a heartbeat,” said one Mets official, who is not in Alderson’s inner-circle of decision-makers, but has a voice in discussions. The guy then snapped his fingers. “Nothing against those kids, but it’s Giancarlo.” Said another Mets official, also not in the top tier of decision-makers: “If you could do that, you would have to. You trade the pitcher for the everyday player almost every time.” And what about d’Arnaud, the catcher of the future acquired in December for Cy Young Award winner R.A. Dickey? “You can figure the catching out later,” the official said. “You have John Buck now, and hey, Brian McCann is going to be a free agent.” Added a scout familiar with the players in this still-fictional deal: “Wheeler and d’Arnaud for Stanton? I would say the Mets might have to give up more than that.” Have the Mets and Marlins actually discussed a trade like this? That depends on who you ask. One source said that Alderson and Miami GM Larry Beinfest, sitting on golf carts at a minor league game in Jupiter, Fla., this spring, engaged in a preliminary chat about Stanton, which was lighthearted and informal, and not in any way a serious negotiation. A second source said that the two talked while sitting in the carts, but not necessarily about a trade, or Stanton, or any of this. Alderson did not return a phone call on Wednesday. OK, let’s step back for some context. First of all, a mea culpa. Back in February, a rumor popped up online saying that the two clubs were discussing these players. It was roundly dismissed by reporters, myself included. That, in fact, is how this revelation came about. I was chatting with a Mets person recently, and alluded to that rumor in a dismissive way. The guy shook his head and said, “There is heat there.” http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... z2QAoKBRwA

Benjamin Grimm Apr 11 2013 10:42 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Wheeler and d'Arnaud would be under Mets control through 2019. Stanton is eligible for free agency after the 2016 season. That has to figure into the calculation.

Edgy MD Apr 11 2013 10:43 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Deliberately provocative offday bating article, written to look like something is on the burner that isn't, which they don't fess up to until the bottom.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 11 2013 10:45 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

What Wouldn’t I Trade For Giancarlo Stanton? 11 April 2013 by Howard Megdal It’s rhetorical; I would trade practically anything for him. So would the Mets. So would any team with a basic understanding of value. So the debate on Twitter over the Daily News piece this morning speculating that the Mets would give up Zack Wheeler and Travis d’Arnaud in a deal for Stanton isn’t a big surprise. Wheeler is a terrific pitching prospect, and d’Arnaud is a terrific catching prospect. The Mets are hoping that Wheeler turns into David Price, and d’Arnaud into Buster Posey. In fact, they’re more than hoping for it; any plan that involves contending in 2014 needs both of them to come up and star, quickly. But just because the Mets are planning as if that is a sure thing, due to financial necessity, doesn’t mean that it is. Wheeler has yet to master Triple-A, let alone the major leagues. Same with d’Arnaud. But Giancarlo Stanton is a sure thing. His OPS+ in 2012 was 158. 158! At age 22! You know who else had an OPS+ of 158 at age 22? Mickey Mantle. And here’s your list of players with a better OPS+ at age 22: Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, Boog Powell, Eddie Mathews, Eddie Collins, Tris Speaker, Sherry Magee, Jimmy Sheckard, Joe DiMaggio, Bernie Carbo, Pete Rieser, Dick Allen, Jimmy Foxx. Most of those guys are Hall of Famers; Allen should be, and Rieser would have been were it not for injuries. The guys who hit more home runs than Stanton on that list? Powell, Mathews and DiMaggio. So the low end on there is Powell, who finished with a paltry 339 home runs and a 134 OPS+ over a 17-year career. The high end is inner-circle Hall of Famers. Yes, you trade two prospects, even two great ones, for that guy. And you worry about building around him. Stanton by himself won’t lead the Mets to contention. Neither would Wheeler and d’Arnaud, even if they max out, by themselves. Build around Stanton, David Wright and Matt Harvey. In Stanton, the Mets would have one more sure thing, and one who is just 23 years old. This is not a difficult question. And the Marlins might get more from another team, one who can match Wheeler/d’Arnaud at the top of a deal, and fill in with more talent that is closer to major league ready than the rest of the Mets farm system currently is. So sure, the Mets would do this. And who knows, maybe the Marlins would, too. The Mets have plenty of difficult questions, such as who the fourth starter is, or the right fielder, or how much longer to give LaTroy Hawkins. Whether they’d trade virtually anyone for Stanton isn’t one of these worries. So don’t spend too much time worrying about whether the Mets should. The Mets certainly aren’t. http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2013/04/11/w ... o-stanton/

Lefty Specialist Apr 11 2013 10:49 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Edgy MD wrote: Deliberately provocative offday bating article, written to look like something is on the burner that isn't, which they don't fess up to until the bottom. This. Sounds like a sportswriter circle-jerk in the airport lounge after a couple of beers.

smg58 Apr 11 2013 11:05 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Stanton will be put on the block sooner or later. But you have to factor in the likelihood that 28 other teams would want him, and some of them will be in a better position to contend in July or going into next year than the Mets. Wheeler, D'Arnaud, Syndegaard, and Wil Flores would probably have to be your opening offer.

metsmarathon Apr 11 2013 11:33 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

how many other teams could offer two top 15 prospects ready to pop onto the majors right away? it's very tempting, and while i'd love to see wheeler develop alongside harvey and both of them throwing to d'arnaud, i'd also like to have the best young hitter in the league.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 11 2013 11:34 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

I'd only do it if they knew they could sign him to an extension that would take him at least to 2018, and hopefully to 2020.

Mets – Willets Point Apr 11 2013 11:37 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Sounds like a trade in tomorrow for today type of deal when there isn't much today to build upon.

TransMonk Apr 11 2013 11:39 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Sounds like a trade in tomorrow for today type of deal when there isn't much today to build upon. Yup.

Frayed Knot Apr 11 2013 11:45 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Yeah, we need OF pop real bad, and I'm not saying that Stanton isn't worth those players (and maybe more), but dealing several prospects--and not just prospects but top 20 type prospects, and nearly ready-to-go top 20 prospects at that--is something teams who think they're just a player or two away do. I don't see us in that situation right now.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 11 2013 12:23 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Given his age, Stanton looks like he'll have a run of a few years where he hits HR's in the high 40's, maybe break 50. Almost definitely if he gets away from that stadium where the Marlins play. ([u:3w06vivp]See[/u:3w06vivp], John Buck)

TheOldMole Apr 11 2013 12:26 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

So we're given to understand, the Mets now have the money to lock up a Stanton to a long term deal.

metirish Apr 11 2013 12:31 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

I wouldn't trade then for even Mike Stanton.....

Benjamin Grimm Apr 11 2013 12:36 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Wait... you're saying you wouldn't trade the Mets two top prospects for a 46-year-old retired relief pitcher? I guess I wouldn't either, now that you mention it.

dinosaur jesus Apr 11 2013 01:04 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Stantons I would trade Wheeler and D'Arnaud for: Mike Stanton (the outfielder) Edwin M. Stanton Harry Dean Stanton Elizabeth Cady Stanton, but only if you throw in Emmeline Pankhurst Stantons I would not trade Wheeler and D'Arnaud for: Mike Stanton (the pitcher) Mike Stanton (the other pitcher)

Ashie62 Apr 11 2013 04:16 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

I would'nt and the marlins probably wouldn't either..

Chad Ochoseis Apr 11 2013 04:59 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Fun fact - Giancarlo Stanton is younger than Travis d'Arnaud and only about seven months older than Zack Wheeler. I'm generally a fan of rebuilding a weak team with prospects, but I'd trade Wheeler and d'Arnaud for Stanton in a heartbeat.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 11 2013 05:36 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

I like Wheeler, and I like D'Arnaud, but we have a lot of pitching, and I like dingers in multiples of 40.

seawolf17 Apr 11 2013 08:21 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Stantons I would not trade Wheeler and D'Arnaud for: Mike Stanton (the pitcher) Mike Stanton (the other pitcher) I remember being so confused in the early 00s that that guy had been hanging around since the early 80s.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2013 11:30 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Given his age, Stanton looks like he'll have a run of a few years where he hits HR's in the high 40's, maybe break 50. Almost definitely if he gets away from that stadium where the Marlins play. (See, John Buck) Mets catcher John Buck, teammates enjoying comfy confines of Citi Field By Dave Hutchinson/The Star Ledger on April 22, 2013 at 11:09 PM, updated April 23, 2013 at 6:44 AM excerpt: John Buck has been liberated in the unlikeliest of major league ballparks. The cavernous dimensions of Citi Field, which tortured hitters for three seasons and still do on occasion, have helped rejuvenate Buck’s career and in turn jolt the Mets’ once-dormant offense to life. After spending the past two seasons as a Marlin playing in Sun Life Stadium and Marlins Park, respectively, where his offense was swallowed up in the vast terrain of those parks and frustration set in, Buck has regained the All-Star form he showed with Toronto in 2010. "I think I’m the only hitter who probably thinks he came to a more hitter-friendly park in coming to Citi Field," .... "Coming from Miami, that place (Marlins Park) is enormous." http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2013/0 ... ammat.html

Frayed Knot Apr 23 2013 11:34 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Most of Buck's HRs this year would have been out of any park, including Yellowstone.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2013 11:42 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Frayed Knot wrote: Most of Buck's HRs this year would have been out of any park, including Yellowstone. Most definitely. But cavernous dimensions tend to alter a player's approach. Maybe Buck doesn't hit those if he were still a Marlin. Or if Citi Field's dimensions weren't shortened.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 24 2013 04:15 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Would you trade Zack Wheeler for this guy? What if that guy's team wanted Wheeler and d'Arnaud? What about Harvey? Would you trade for Matt Harvey for that guy? MLB Trade Rumors: Miami Marlins Want Matt Harvey in Return for Giancarlo Stanton? The Miami Marlins are unlikely to trade Giancarlo Stanton before the July trading deadline next week. However, if they were to trade Stanton, apparently the team would want an equal return of a cost controlled player, preferably controlled longer than Stanton. This is according to Matthew Cerrone of Metsblog.com. I’ve been told by people in baseball that, to get Stanton today, a team like the Mets would need to give them Matt Harvey. The way I understand it, the Marlins are encouraged by what they’re seeing in their young players, specifically Jose Fernandez. As such, instead of looking to move Stanton for a basket of three or four top minor leaguers (think Noah Syndergaard, Wilmer Flores, Travis d’Arnaud, etc.), they may look to get equal value, i.e., a current, very productive, affordable player, under contract for longer than Stanton’s remaining three-year deal, i.e., a Harvey. A Matt Harvey for Giancarlo Stanton swap would indeed be an interesting one, but it would be a trade I would see the Mets having a tough time making. While Stanton is a premium power hitter, Harvey is a young starter that has already blossomed into the Mets ace. A trade of Stanton for Harvey would actually not be a terrible trade in value, as Dave Cameron of Fangraphs recently rated Stanton has having the eight best trade value in baseball. In seventh place, one slot ahead of Stanton, was Harvey. Cameron had Harvey as the pitcher with the most trade value on the open market today. Here is what Cameron had to say on Stanton’s trade value: f David Price is the player on this list most likely to be traded, Stanton isn’t that far behind. The price that the Marlins are able to extract for their star right fielder is going to be fascinating. A couple of months on the DL with a bad knee and the dissipation of an extra year of team control have hurt his value, but he’s still perhaps the game’s most exciting young slugger. He’s 23 and has a career wRC+ of 138. The players who have done what Stanton has done at this age are mostly in the Hall of Fame. Stanton is going to bring back a mint when the Marlins trade him. The price is probably going to blow us all away. Here is what he had to say about Harvey’s trade value: Some great young pitchers become great older pitchers. And it’s not like hitters are risk free either, so while Matt Harvey might be peaking right now, every team in baseball would sign up for the right to see if Harvey could be more Kershaw than Prior. It’s basically impossible for a pitcher to have more trade value than Matt Harvey does right now. What do you guys think, would a Matt Harvey-for-Giancarlo Stanton trade make sense for both sides right now? What would be more enjoyable to watch, a front of the rotation of Matt Harvey-Jose Fernandez or a lineup with Stanton and David Wright? http://marlinmaniac.com/2013/07/24/mlb- ... o-stanton/

Ashie62 Jul 24 2013 04:33 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

No effin way...

metirish Jul 24 2013 04:34 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

No fucking way .....

MFS62 Jul 25 2013 09:03 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

The talk about Harvey for Stanton reminds me of an old joke: Guy: Would you have sex with me for $1 million? Girl: Yes Guy: Would you have sex with me for $1? Girl: No! What kind of girl do you think I am? Guy: You told me what kind of girl you are. Now we're negotiating price. The face that Stanton is available tellls me that it could be time to negotiate a lower price. Later

Nymr83 Jul 25 2013 10:26 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

I wouldnt deal Harvey. at all. Now if they told me Wheeler and d'Arnaud gets it done? sign me up. Wheeler isnt Harvey yet and while d'Arnaud might be a future star he also might never be healthy enough to show it, and he loses the "star" potential if his bat is forced by injuries to move off the catching position.

smg58 Jul 25 2013 12:34 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Before we start haggling the price down, keep in mind that Stanton (much like Harvey) would be desirable to every team in the league. Negotiating the price is what you do when there are two or three teams left in the bidding and your offer is the closest to getting it done. Of course I'd balk at dealing Harvey, but one of the 28 other teams interested in Stanton might offer something comparable.

Edgy MD Jul 25 2013 01:48 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Right now, I'm not sure there is an asset comparable to Harvey. That said, arms are vulnerable. Good pitching is ephemeral. It's there and it's not. Blink and you miss it. How Tom Seaver was able to do what he did, year in and year out, completing 47% of the games he started through age 32, working (presumably) without 'roids, is inexplicable.

Nymr83 Jul 25 2013 05:38 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

Edgy MD wrote: Right now, I'm not sure there is an asset comparable to Harvey. That said, arms are vulnerable. Good pitching is ephemeral. It's there and it's not. Blink and you miss it. How Tom Seaver was able to do what he did, year in and year out, completing 47% of the games he started through age 32, working (presumably) without 'roids, is inexplicable. Who is comparable to Harvey? Harvey is a top 10 starting pitcher in the league right now and is under control for 6 more years... I'm having a hard time thinking of guys who fit both categories. I can't include anyone who hasnt had major league success, no matter how touted they are. Shelby Miller? Jose Fernandez? is it just my Met-Bias saying they aren't at Harvey's level? Would you say Strasburg has more value? with two less years of control left and the injury history I wouldn't.

metsmarathon Jul 26 2013 10:00 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

there's no pitching asset comparable to harvey. in the fangraphs piece referenced somewhere above that lists stanton as #8 and harvey as #7, the following players are listed ahead of him, and it's really hard to quibble much with any of them: #6 posey (power hitting catcher signed long term, albeit at high salary - this is the one most quibblable) #5 longoria (excellent all around thirdbaseman signed long term to fairly reasonable salary, all things considered) #4 mccutchen (the pirates will pay him an average of only $12M for each of the next five years) #3 manny machado (he's only 20, this is hist first full year, and he's a super 3b) #2 harper (i don't think i need to explain this one) #1 trout (duh) none of htese players are getting traded for giancarlo stanton. matt harvey isn't either. a team could put together a package that, together, could be worth more than harvey, but one player alone isn't doing the trick.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 26 2013 11:42 AM Re: Trade Talkin'

Were I a Giants GM, I would probably trade Posey for Stanton (see: injury concerns, cost). Were I a Giants GM, I would probably also be crucified.

metsmarathon Jul 26 2013 12:12 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

the trick is, the one team you're not going to be able to trade posey to is probably the marlins, because salary.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 26 2013 01:01 PM Re: Trade Talkin'

[Points to metsmarathon] [Points to nose]