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Hot Seat Terry
batmagadanleadoff May 01 2013 08:25 AM |
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When Bob Klapisch says so, it's official! Terry Collins is on the hot seat.
http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/K ... l?page=all Terry Collins is officially on the hot seat Craig Calcaterra May 1, 2013, 10:00 AM EDT
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/ ... -hot-seat/
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MFS62 May 01 2013 08:33 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
There's an old baseball adage that says since you can't fire the players, you fire the manager.
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batmagadanleadoff May 01 2013 08:39 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Why can't they fire Byrd?* He's on pace for almost 500 plate appearances. Who the hell here wants to see that? Raise your hand if you do.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 01 2013 08:40 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I think the word "caretaker" carries certain connotations that Terry wouldn't agree with, but certainly he knows from Day 1 he's in a turnaround situation and likely to hand the baton to the "next level" guy unless he accomplishes the impossible with this group. To suggest otherwise is to think the Mets hired Collins because he's an idiot, and I don't believe that. I think it's highly unlikely he gets fired unless he starts bickering with players or going on drinking binges or something.
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Benjamin Grimm May 01 2013 08:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
A 12-game losing streak, and a lethargic team, could cause Terry to get fired, even if he stays sober and out of jail.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 01 2013 08:43 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Alas, I think a 12-game losing streak is also unlikely.
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Ceetar May 01 2013 08:45 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I like the hitting coach, and am not going to fire him over a bad week. (Warthen, on the other hand, has had years of bad bullpens, and the starters without talent haven't exactly flourished, or quickly) I think the question marks for Hudgens are Ike's slow starts (but can you then credit him for helping him break out of it last year?) and Tejada hasn't really taken a step forward. But he has to get some credit for Duda so far, and Wright has seemingly gone back to flourishing under his watch. Murphy is Murphy, and everyone else might not be talented enough to save.
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metirish May 01 2013 08:47 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Surely the front office are getting exactly what this team was built for ? Alderson skates but he shouldn't.
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 08:51 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
I'm getting the impression that Terry was never really so much the hothead he was portrayed as being. But he was so sensitive to that notion arriving with his hiring here, that he's over-corrected and is over-playing the mother hen part of his job. (I frankly get the notion that he's very good and passionate about developing young players.)
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batmagadanleadoff May 01 2013 08:54 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all.
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Ceetar May 01 2013 08:59 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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He WAS minor league field coordinator before he took the job after all. Sure, he doesn't know Wheeler or d'Arnaud (and really, does Backman know d'Arnaud better than Collins for getting an extra two weeks with him in Vegas?) but he knows Duda and Ike, Tejada and Niese and Gee, etc. All possible parts of a long term future, not to mention that both he and they are there now. Clearly Klap is running with the complete rebuilding, gonna scourge flushing of all but Wright, Harvey, and the top prospects idea, but the 'knows the players' already angle is bs mostly. From what I can see, I trust Collins more than Backman with a young 'up and coming' team anyway.
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 09:01 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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Agreed. I'd rate the post-Valentine bunch as: Collins Randolph Manuel Howe ... with a wide gap between the first two. Manuel's best traits were probably more useful for a time than Howe's but his worst traits were more damaging, so I can flop 'em as needed. Collins, Randolph, and Howe all have seemed utterly self-conscious. Manuel was the loosest of the bunch, but often that led to an obliviousness to a glaring oversight.
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 09:02 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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Agreed, but whose angle is that? OE: I get it, the Johnson-in-1984 angle.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 01 2013 09:03 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I will agree with that too. I also think Edgy's onto something. Let's see Terry get a little fired up.
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Ceetar May 01 2013 09:10 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I think he gets fired up some. He certainly did last night right? at least got harsh? I wary of demanding he get fired up though. Wasn't there a "Get thrown out" campaign for Randolph? I feel like Manuel spent the second half of 2008 purposely acting like exactly the opposite of everything anyone ever complained Randolph. I'd probably rank 'em Collins/Randolph/Howe/Sandy Alomar/other random one-day stand-ins/The drunk guy yelling from behind the dugout/Manuel
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batmagadanleadoff May 01 2013 09:13 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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No Quality Control
http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2013/05/01/n ... y-control/ This is what I say. Fire Byrd, ferchrissakes!
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 09:16 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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People like blood.
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 09:18 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I don't think I mean to suggest that showing more fire = screaming at umpires.
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Ceetar May 01 2013 09:40 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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well, it's one of the few ways we can see it as fans without it having to be force-fed us through the broadcast looking for it or the beatwriters reporting it. But I'm sure fans and the media were demanding more fire, and getting thrown out was simply a specific suggestion of how. i.e. Just let Collins manage how he thinks is best. That's his job, don't appease the media's desire for a lame-duck narrative.
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Benjamin Grimm May 01 2013 09:45 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
I'll concede that he's a better manager than anyone who's had the job since Bobby Valentine was fired. But that's damning with faint praise. I'd like a really good manager, and that's not Terry. So yes, I'd like to see him go. I just wish I had more confidence that the next guy will be an improvement.
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 09:49 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
That sounds like faint praise, too. And for Backman's part, it sounds like baldfaced self-promotion.
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metirish May 01 2013 09:54 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players?, they are what they are. During the late innings last night Keith was getting exasperated as is his wont with the the outfield this time for being too deep and not moving in with the game on the line " you don't need a coach to tell you this", "this is baseball 101". I'm watching thinking wow that's damning right there.
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Ceetar May 01 2013 10:04 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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difference of style though. Duda, for instance, is much more comfortable coming in. Granted, you don't want to be too deep, but one person's too deep is another's just right. Keith has different feelings about things like the shift and guarding the line too. Keith's certainly biased, having playing defense at a higher level than the average baseball player, especially these days. But there have been more examples than that too. Is the bench coach supposed to be double checking positioning? You gotta get stuff like this ingrained though, and isn't that why they fired Mookie?
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G-Fafif May 01 2013 10:12 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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No, Wally still has his mustache.
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 10:30 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I don't know. But I have little doubt that some managers get more from some players than others do.
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Lefty Specialist May 01 2013 11:56 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I'm guessing Wally would tell them to send the Baxters and Reckers to Las Vegas. I don't see the value of firing Terry and bringing in Wally right now. We all knew from the git-go that this team was going to suck this year- there were just too many holes. No outfield. 40% of a starting pitching staff. Relievers born during the Nixon Administration. Two closers, one who can't pitch, and um, one who can't pitch. Suspect defense. These are not the building blocks of a successful year. The past few years, this team has had similar sorts of holes and they've been able to kind of keep it together until the All-Star break, when someone sneezes and the house of cards collapses. It's just happening earlier this year. In a way, that's good; it's three fewer months when Jeff Wilpon can delude himself that he can win without spending any money. Wally, bless his little fireplug of a soul, wouldn't make enough of a difference to matter. He can't play the outfield or pitch seven solid innings (and even if he could, the bullpen would blow it). It's better for all concerned to let the detritus sort itself out, for the bottom to be scraped, for warm July nights of under 10,000 at the ballpark to be displayed for the Wilpons to see. If I'm Backman, I don't want to walk into that situation. I'd rather walk in with a fresh start in 2014 and hopefully a little more money to be spent on players, some of which he's helped mold, and some of which he has input on selecting. Now, if it's offered, Backman will take the job. He's consumed with managing in the majors after the D-Backs snatched it away from him a few years ago. He might make a small difference, but not enough to remotely turn this team around this year.
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metirish May 01 2013 11:59 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Would you believe that the D-Backs job was 2004?.....damn, times flies.....
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Lefty Specialist May 01 2013 01:11 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Wow, I didn't realize it was that long ago. Wally must be awfully itchy. It's like he was the Moonlight Graham of major league managers.
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duan May 01 2013 03:30 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I really don't want Backman as a manager. Everything about him screams sociopath..... And embarrassment.
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Zvon May 01 2013 03:49 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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Might be better to have a manager who's already crazy as opposed to driving him there. I still support Collins. Unless he's batshit stupid I always want to support the current manager.
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vtmet May 01 2013 07:00 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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Billy Martin worked out pretty well for the Yanks and A's in short doses...everything about him screamed sociopath as well, which was one of his better personality traits...not a long term solution, but effective at lighting a fire under his teams butt until they grew tired of his antics... the one that would scare me is our Bench coach, Bob Geren (who from the sounds of it was not liked at all by his former players)...
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 07:05 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Yabbut, from the sound of it, neither was Terry.
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Frayed Knot May 01 2013 07:38 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Also, what's the point in putting up a short-term solution type of manager (assuming, for purposes of the argument that that's what Backman is) to lead a team that most assume is not in a quick-fix type of situation?
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vtmet May 01 2013 07:56 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 01 2013 08:06 PM |
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I'd rather get a chance to evaluate Backman as an Interim manager before giving him a chance at the start of Spring Training...that way you get a chance to see how he handles things without a long time commitment...Right now, our biggest weakness is that we don't have any kind of a catalyst/sparkplug to wake out our offense...I really don't know how Backman would be as a manager, but as a player, he was a pest at the top of the order helping to create good hitting situations for the meat of the order...While he may not have any more answers than Terry has, at least he knows that part of the big guys getting the key RBI is because of the guys that got inside the pitchers'/defense heads in front of the Keith's/Gary's/Strawberry's... did you see how Sandy handled managers in Oakland before finally getting Tony LaRussa? Billy Martin left after the 1982 season, and Alderson took over in time for the 1983 season... 1983: Named Steve Boros manager; 1984: After 44 games, Boros was fired; Jackie Moore was hired; 1986: Jackie Moore was fired after 53 games; Jeff Newman was hired; 1986: After a 2-8 record; Jeff Newman was fired & LaRussa was hired; By the way, Jackie Moore and Steve Boros produced records that weren't any worse than Terry Collins' record with the Mets; http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 08:05 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
I don't think Terry Collins is unaware that table setters --- and aggressive baserunners when you can get 'em --- are a positive asset for a team.
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vtmet May 01 2013 08:10 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I wouldn't doubt that Collins is more aware of the importance of speedy table setters than Sandy Anderson appears to be...On paper, OBP trumps speed in his philosophy (then again, he was also spoiled in Oakland with Rickey Henderson, who had OBP, speed and power)...
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Frayed Knot May 01 2013 08:14 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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Mine too. Besides, when Backman hit .320 in '86 his top of the lineup contributions were a key piece. But the following season when his OBP fell 80 points to barely .300 his "catalyst" magic wasn't quite as effective.
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vtmet May 01 2013 08:37 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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but there needs to be a balance there...a slow guy that gets on base often doesn't help; and a fast guy that can't get on base often doesn't help either...a Ruben Tejada type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP is going to produce less offense than a Jose Reyes type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP...
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Valadius May 01 2013 08:46 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Why can't we put Jeffy on the hot seat?
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Edgy MD May 01 2013 09:01 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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I'll disagree. I feel certain that batmagadanleadoff would also disagree. I'll even disagree with the notion that a fast guy that doesn't reach base very often doesn't help, depending on how not-very-often we're talking about. I'm sure the goal isn't to proceed with Ruben Tejada reaching at a .333 clip. I'm not sure what you're proposing Backman or anybody would or should do with the leadoff spot. Valdespin is an option, but that's certainly not clear.
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vtmet May 01 2013 09:27 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
with the current cast of characters and what we have at AA/AAA, I don't know if anyone could really come up with a decent leadoff hitter...I'm thinking that trading Angel Pagan when we lost Reyes to Free Agency probably wasn't the smartest move in the world (although Pagan/Collins didn't appear to be as good of a matchup as Pagan has in SF)...
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MFS62 May 01 2013 09:40 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Catcher Del Crandall frequently batted second (behind Billy Bruton) for the Braves on their WS teams of the late 1950s. His highest OBP was less than .350 and he never stole more than 5 bases in a season.
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metsguyinmichigan May 01 2013 11:58 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
I dismiss anything written by Klapish from the get-go.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 02 2013 04:46 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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The, um, home runs and triples and doubles may have something to do with that. The whole managerial-influence-over-wins-and-losses issue notwithstanding, I have a feeling that Wally at the head of this team would be as effective as yelling at a pneumonia patient to make them better.
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vtmet May 02 2013 06:06 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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lol...that one immediately made me think of that Geico commercial that has a former Army Drill Sergeant as a Psychologist (yelling at the mamby-pamby guy on the couch)... [youtube]XfmVBmDKLZI[/youtube]
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Edgy MD May 02 2013 06:09 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
I don't get what we're talking about? Will appointing Wally Backman bring about the next Jose Reyes --- a player whose presence Terry Collins is somehow keeping away?
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metirish May 02 2013 08:53 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Terry getting lots of support from the writers, a sure sign he is on the hot seat.
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metsmarathon May 02 2013 10:07 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
i would advocate murphy for leadoff, but good heavens, his obp is only 0.330!
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metirish May 03 2013 05:05 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Mike Puma (@NYPost_Mets) tweeted at 6:53 PM on Fri, May 03, 2013:
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Edgy MD May 03 2013 09:16 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
I like how Sandy knows the unspoken thoughts of the entire organization. SCARY!
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vtmet May 04 2013 04:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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he's told his organization: this is my thinking, and if you don't think this way, you can find employment elsewhere...
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Centerfield May 04 2013 05:53 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Terry's move in the tenth last night (letting Parnell see a pitch, sending Valdespin, then getting Baxter only after he made it) was the first time I can remember ever going from: "What the fuck is he doing?" to "OH! That makes perfect sense!"
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Ceetar May 04 2013 05:57 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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It was shockingly crafty. It sounds mean, but it's a level of strategy I don't really expect from Terry. I love it, it IS a great move. Now I'm surprised I haven't seen it before.
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Frayed Knot May 04 2013 06:26 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
And even the downside to it all wasn't all that down.
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Ceetar May 04 2013 06:44 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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indeed. screw the AL.
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Swan Swan H May 04 2013 07:14 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
I loved it. Gonzalez never saw it coming, otherwise he could have pitched out. The temperature on Terry's seat just went down a few degrees.
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Edgy MD May 04 2013 02:44 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Great points. And great framing of the situation by Centerfield and the former Leftfield.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 04 2013 09:24 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Between that freak-genius steal/PH call and "against the book" usage of Parnell to begin with, along with a few other decent calls... I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that last night might have been Terry Collins' finest in-game management as a Met.
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Frayed Knot May 05 2013 08:40 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Of course two innings earlier we were knocking him for being too quick on the Lefty/Righty switches.
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Ashie62 May 05 2013 04:09 PM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
Managers are so committed to roles and such that I see little difference between any two managers, but thats just me..
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batmagadanleadoff May 13 2013 10:58 AM Re: Hot Seat Terry |
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How restless Terry Collins made his peace with the 2013 Mets
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/s ... featured-4
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