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Hot Seat Terry

batmagadanleadoff
May 01 2013 08:25 AM

When Bob Klapisch says so, it's official! Terry Collins is on the hot seat.

Klapisch: Mets' Terry Collins losing grip on manager's job

Tuesday, April 30, 2013 Last updated: Wednesday May 1, 2013, 12:30 AM
By BOB KLAPISCH
RECORD COLUMNIST

The countdown on Terry Collins began on the first day of pitchers and catchers and nothing so far has made it any easier to believe he’ll be back with the Mets in 2014. Of course, Collins has handled his lame-duck status with grace and maturity — he’s an honest guy, good with people — but that hasn’t stopped Sandy Alderson from letting his manager continue to drift away from the mother ship.

Collins, no dummy, knows he would’ve already received a vote of confidence, even in private, if Alderson and Jeff Wilpon were entirely sold on his body of work. Both men know what job security — or its absence — does to a manager’s standing in the clubhouse. Without a commitment from ownership, Collins looks like a short-timer on a bad team, a latter-day George Bamberger. The current six-game losing streak, including embarrassing back-to-back losses to the Marlins, doesn’t help his cause, either.

So what’ll it take for Collins to avoid being fired, even before the end of the season? A more robust roster would help, obviously. In the meantime, he has to prove to the front office that the Mets are listening to him, and that he’s relevant enough to relate to the next wave of stars — particularly Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler and Travis D’Arnaud.

Collins’ relationship with David Wright is solid, as it should be. But just as Davey Johnson had built-in ties with Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry and Ron Darling, among others, in 1984, it’s Wally Backman, not Collins, who has a head start with the 20-somethings who’ll be at Citi for the rest of the decade.

The best-case scenario for Collins is to keep the Mets around .500 and then finish out September with a modest surge. The over-under on that algorithm is 82 wins, which might be enough for Collins to get rehired. It’s highly improbable, especially as it already feels like the season is slipping away. But, with five months still remaining, nothing is impossible. Not yet.

Part Two of Collins’ must-do list is even more critical. He has to become a master tactician, in the same conversation with, say, Buck Showalter, able to get the most out of a below-average club.

Collins had a particularly bad series against the Phillies over the weekend, especially in his choices with the bullpen. On Saturday, the Mets were trailing the Phillies by only a run in the fifth inning, yet Collins summoned Robert Carson, the last pitcher on his staff. The results were disastrous, as Carson instantly surrendered five runs. Collins inexplicably used a mop-up man in a close game and paid dearly.

The following day, Collins flubbed a more complex set of choices, allowing Ryan Howard to beat the Mets with a pinch-hit, two-run double in the seventh. With Kevin Frandsen at the plate in a tie game and runners on first and second, Collins decided Jonathon Niese had reached his limit after his 117th pitch. Collins wanted Scott Atchison, a righty, to face Frandsen, also a righty. But why?

Surely, Collins must’ve known that Atchison’s appearance would prompt Charlie Manuel to use Howard off the bench. Didn’t Collins know Howard was a career .421 pinch hitter and was the last guy the Mets wanted to see?

But that’s exactly how it played out, because Collins didn’t want to bring a lefty like Scott Rice to face Frandsen. Instead, he gambled on Atchison versus Howard, and promptly got smoked. The Mets were swept and haven’t won a game since.

These are the ways Collins is being judged from now on. Call it unfair, and you’d be right, because there are so few assets for Collins to draw upon, especially in the bullpen. But like it or not, this is an audition and Collins is already struggling.


http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/K ... l?page=all

Terry Collins is officially on the hot seat
Craig Calcaterra
May 1, 2013, 10:00 AM EDT

Terry Collins is not under contract for 2014. That alone makes his job security a tenuous proposition at best. But Bob Klapisch notes that he’s on even shakier ground than that:

"Without a commitment from ownership, Collins looks like a short-timer on a bad team, a latter-day George Bamberger. The current six-game losing streak, including embarrassing back-to-back losses to the Marlins, doesn’t help his cause, either. So what’ll it take for Collins to avoid being fired, even before the end of the season? A more robust roster would help, obviously. In the meantime, he has to prove to the front office that the Mets are listening to him, and that he’s relevant enough to relate to the next wave of stars — particularly Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler and Travis D’Arnaud."


Considering Wheeler isn’t on the Mets and D’Arnaud is on the DL for a long time, well, good luck Terry.

You sorta have to figure that Collins is bright enough to know that he was hired to be a caretaker manager. It’s a respectable gig. In light of that I find worrying about his job to be way less interesting than wondering who might replace him. I figure that the Wally Backman truthers will come out strong again soon. And I figure it’s silly to think that Backman won’t get a chance to manage the Mets at some point. I just wonder whether he’s the next guy or the next-next guy.


http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/ ... -hot-seat/

MFS62
May 01 2013 08:33 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

There's an old baseball adage that says since you can't fire the players, you fire the manager.
But, before they do that, how about firing the hitting (and I use that term loosely) coach?

Later

batmagadanleadoff
May 01 2013 08:39 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Why can't they fire Byrd?* He's on pace for almost 500 plate appearances. Who the hell here wants to see that? Raise your hand if you do.



*For starters. Then fire some other starters.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 01 2013 08:40 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

You sorta have to figure that Collins is bright enough to know that he was hired to be a caretaker manager.


I think the word "caretaker" carries certain connotations that Terry wouldn't agree with, but certainly he knows from Day 1 he's in a turnaround situation and likely to hand the baton to the "next level" guy unless he accomplishes the impossible with this group. To suggest otherwise is to think the Mets hired Collins because he's an idiot, and I don't believe that.

I think it's highly unlikely he gets fired unless he starts bickering with players or going on drinking binges or something.

Benjamin Grimm
May 01 2013 08:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

A 12-game losing streak, and a lethargic team, could cause Terry to get fired, even if he stays sober and out of jail.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 01 2013 08:43 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Alas, I think a 12-game losing streak is also unlikely.

Ceetar
May 01 2013 08:45 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

MFS62 wrote:
There's an old baseball adage that says since you can't fire the players, you fire the manager.
But, before they do that, how about firing the hitting (and I use that term loosely) coach?

Later


I like the hitting coach, and am not going to fire him over a bad week. (Warthen, on the other hand, has had years of bad bullpens, and the starters without talent haven't exactly flourished, or quickly)

I think the question marks for Hudgens are Ike's slow starts (but can you then credit him for helping him break out of it last year?) and Tejada hasn't really taken a step forward. But he has to get some credit for Duda so far, and Wright has seemingly gone back to flourishing under his watch. Murphy is Murphy, and everyone else might not be talented enough to save.

metirish
May 01 2013 08:47 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Surely the front office are getting exactly what this team was built for ? Alderson skates but he shouldn't.

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 08:51 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

I'm getting the impression that Terry was never really so much the hothead he was portrayed as being. But he was so sensitive to that notion arriving with his hiring here, that he's over-corrected and is over-playing the mother hen part of his job. (I frankly get the notion that he's very good and passionate about developing young players.)

I think more of the fire that helps weld a team together and excite them for battle would be nice to see. The guy that's convinced his team can lick any comers even when all evidence says otherwise. If he's really on the hot seat, I hope he lets Battling Terry off the leash before he goes. If nothing else, it'll give us some entertainment and a chance to see if there was anything to the caricature in the first place, and give the team a man on fire to rally around.

batmagadanleadoff
May 01 2013 08:54 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all.

Ceetar
May 01 2013 08:59 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Edgy MD wrote:
(I frankly get the notion that he's very good and passionate about developing young players.)


He WAS minor league field coordinator before he took the job after all. Sure, he doesn't know Wheeler or d'Arnaud (and really, does Backman know d'Arnaud better than Collins for getting an extra two weeks with him in Vegas?) but he knows Duda and Ike, Tejada and Niese and Gee, etc. All possible parts of a long term future, not to mention that both he and they are there now.

Clearly Klap is running with the complete rebuilding, gonna scourge flushing of all but Wright, Harvey, and the top prospects idea, but the 'knows the players' already angle is bs mostly. From what I can see, I trust Collins more than Backman with a young 'up and coming' team anyway.

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 09:01 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all.

Agreed.

I'd rate the post-Valentine bunch as:

Collins
Randolph
Manuel
Howe

... with a wide gap between the first two.

Manuel's best traits were probably more useful for a time than Howe's but his worst traits were more damaging, so I can flop 'em as needed.

Collins, Randolph, and Howe all have seemed utterly self-conscious. Manuel was the loosest of the bunch, but often that led to an obliviousness to a glaring oversight.

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 09:02 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Ceetar wrote:
but the 'knows the players' already angle is bs mostly.

Agreed, but whose angle is that?

OE: I get it, the Johnson-in-1984 angle.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 01 2013 09:03 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all.


I will agree with that too.

I also think Edgy's onto something. Let's see Terry get a little fired up.

Ceetar
May 01 2013 09:10 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
batmagadanleadoff wrote:
The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Collins in more than 10 years. And it's not even close. This matters nothing as far as Terry's job security goes, and it's not even a compliment to Terry. But I'm just sayin', is all.


I will agree with that too.

I also think Edgy's onto something. Let's see Terry get a little fired up.


I think he gets fired up some. He certainly did last night right? at least got harsh?

I wary of demanding he get fired up though. Wasn't there a "Get thrown out" campaign for Randolph? I feel like Manuel spent the second half of 2008 purposely acting like exactly the opposite of everything anyone ever complained Randolph.

I'd probably rank 'em

Collins/Randolph/Howe/Sandy Alomar/other random one-day stand-ins/The drunk guy yelling from behind the dugout/Manuel

batmagadanleadoff
May 01 2013 09:13 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

No Quality Control
01 May 2013 by Howard Megdal




I’m genuinely surprised by the number of people who think Terry Collins should be fired today.

This is a roster that nobody can win with. I can’t say that with absolute certainty, since we haven’t seen any other manager try. But I’m hard-pressed to understand why anyone thinks so.

Look, even Sandy Alderson understood how limited the roster was this winter. And either he made a conscious choice to not spend money he was offered, which strikes me as ridiculously unlikely, or the huge financial limitations of the team’s owners is once again manifesting itself, this year a bit earlier than in past seasons. What do you think?

People have been comparing this awful loss Tuesday night on Twitter with other recent awful ones. It’s pretty simple: when a decision is made to stock a major league roster with players that really aren’t major leaguers, some of the results are going to be utterly absurd.

Anthony Recker is 29 years old. His career OPS+ is 41. So he’s got to be here for defense. And his passed ball/wild pitch combo last night certainly didn’t meet the minimum standard for defense-first catcher.

But really, we know why he’s here. Anthony Recker makes the league minimum, and the Mets were able to sign him on a minor league deal.

So many of the true howler losses happened for the same reasons. No money for a center fielder? Well, Mets have a Jordany Valdespin hanging around. Let’s see what happens when they stick him in center field, despite a complete lack of minor league training? This is what happens.

Basic building of pitching depth was missing in 2012. Remember Chris Schwinden? Freely available. Remember Collin McHugh? He happened to be in the system.

This is not a plan, by the way. This is triage.

Can only afford one lefty reliever? Well, abuse him. Then the next guy. What other options do you have?

This isn’t anything new. It isn’t about Terry Collins, or Sandy Alderson.

No left fielder? Put Daniel Murphy there. Let’s see what happens.

No backup first baseman? Let’s see what happens when Jeremy Reed, a career outfielder, gives it a go.

Hey, Lucas Duda can hit. Maybe he can play right field! Oh, right, he can’t. Maybe left field?

This is the pernicious result of ownership starving the team of resources. At the top, there’s no ability to add star power, so things like the pursuit of Michael Bourn become a sham. No free agents left? Fred Wilpon has money again! (Except he doesn’t.)

But the rest of the roster is filled not by need, or by basic attempts to compete, but with bits of string. And the shocking losses shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone. Rebuilding does not have to mean forgoing even basic attempts to compete by bringing in talent on short-term contracts, or building minimal depth to withstand any injuries.

“I’m pissed off. I’m extremely pissed off,” Collins said after the game.

He’s smart enough to know who to be angry at. Are you?


http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2013/05/01/n ... y-control/

This is what I say. Fire Byrd, ferchrissakes!

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 09:16 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

I’m genuinely surprised by the number of people who think Terry Collins should be fired today.


People like blood.

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 09:18 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Ceetar wrote:
I wary of demanding he get fired up though. Wasn't there a "Get thrown out" campaign for Randolph? I feel like Manuel spent the second half of 2008 purposely acting like exactly the opposite of everything anyone ever complained Randolph.

I don't think I mean to suggest that showing more fire = screaming at umpires.

Ceetar
May 01 2013 09:40 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Edgy MD wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
I wary of demanding he get fired up though. Wasn't there a "Get thrown out" campaign for Randolph? I feel like Manuel spent the second half of 2008 purposely acting like exactly the opposite of everything anyone ever complained Randolph.

I don't think I mean to suggest that showing more fire = screaming at umpires.


well, it's one of the few ways we can see it as fans without it having to be force-fed us through the broadcast looking for it or the beatwriters reporting it. But I'm sure fans and the media were demanding more fire, and getting thrown out was simply a specific suggestion of how.

i.e. Just let Collins manage how he thinks is best. That's his job, don't appease the media's desire for a lame-duck narrative.

Benjamin Grimm
May 01 2013 09:45 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

I'll concede that he's a better manager than anyone who's had the job since Bobby Valentine was fired. But that's damning with faint praise. I'd like a really good manager, and that's not Terry. So yes, I'd like to see him go. I just wish I had more confidence that the next guy will be an improvement.

A few years ago I was against the idea of Wally Backman. I don't think I am anymore. On this week's Mets Insider (the one that focuses on the Las Vegas team) he said something about how he'd be a better manager than a lot of the 30 people who currently have a major league job. I don't know if that's true or not, but it may very well be.

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 09:49 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

That sounds like faint praise, too. And for Backman's part, it sounds like baldfaced self-promotion.

I suddenly want Lee Elia.

[list]I hope we get fuckin' hotter than shit, just to stuff it up them 3,000 fuckin' people that show up every fuckin' day, because if they're the real New York fuckin' fans, they can kiss my fuckin' ass right downtown and PRINT IT! [/list:u]

metirish
May 01 2013 09:54 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players?, they are what they are. During the late innings last night Keith was getting exasperated as is his wont with the the outfield this time for being too deep and not moving in with the game on the line " you don't need a coach to tell you this", "this is baseball 101". I'm watching thinking wow that's damning right there.

Ceetar
May 01 2013 10:04 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

metirish wrote:
But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players?, they are what they are. During the late innings last night Keith was getting exasperated as is his wont with the the outfield this time for being too deep and not moving in with the game on the line " you don't need a coach to tell you this", "this is baseball 101". I'm watching thinking wow that's damning right there.


difference of style though. Duda, for instance, is much more comfortable coming in. Granted, you don't want to be too deep, but one person's too deep is another's just right. Keith has different feelings about things like the shift and guarding the line too. Keith's certainly biased, having playing defense at a higher level than the average baseball player, especially these days.

But there have been more examples than that too. Is the bench coach supposed to be double checking positioning? You gotta get stuff like this ingrained though, and isn't that why they fired Mookie?

G-Fafif
May 01 2013 10:12 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Edgy MD wrote:
And for Backman's part, it sounds like baldfaced self-promotion.


No, Wally still has his mustache.

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 10:30 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

metirish wrote:
But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players?

I don't know. But I have little doubt that some managers get more from some players than others do.

Lefty Specialist
May 01 2013 11:56 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Edgy MD wrote:
metirish wrote:
But would Wally make the Baxter's, the Recker's better players?

I don't know. But I have little doubt that some managers get more from some players than others do.


I'm guessing Wally would tell them to send the Baxters and Reckers to Las Vegas.

I don't see the value of firing Terry and bringing in Wally right now. We all knew from the git-go that this team was going to suck this year- there were just too many holes. No outfield. 40% of a starting pitching staff. Relievers born during the Nixon Administration. Two closers, one who can't pitch, and um, one who can't pitch. Suspect defense. These are not the building blocks of a successful year.

The past few years, this team has had similar sorts of holes and they've been able to kind of keep it together until the All-Star break, when someone sneezes and the house of cards collapses. It's just happening earlier this year. In a way, that's good; it's three fewer months when Jeff Wilpon can delude himself that he can win without spending any money.

Wally, bless his little fireplug of a soul, wouldn't make enough of a difference to matter. He can't play the outfield or pitch seven solid innings (and even if he could, the bullpen would blow it). It's better for all concerned to let the detritus sort itself out, for the bottom to be scraped, for warm July nights of under 10,000 at the ballpark to be displayed for the Wilpons to see.

If I'm Backman, I don't want to walk into that situation. I'd rather walk in with a fresh start in 2014 and hopefully a little more money to be spent on players, some of which he's helped mold, and some of which he has input on selecting.

Now, if it's offered, Backman will take the job. He's consumed with managing in the majors after the D-Backs snatched it away from him a few years ago. He might make a small difference, but not enough to remotely turn this team around this year.

metirish
May 01 2013 11:59 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Would you believe that the D-Backs job was 2004?.....damn, times flies.....

Lefty Specialist
May 01 2013 01:11 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Wow, I didn't realize it was that long ago. Wally must be awfully itchy. It's like he was the Moonlight Graham of major league managers.

duan
May 01 2013 03:30 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Benjamin Grimm wrote:


A few years ago I was against the idea of Wally Backman. I don't think I am anymore. On this week's Mets Insider (the one that focuses on the Las Vegas team) he said something about how he'd be a better manager than a lot of the 30 people who currently have a major league job. I don't know if that's true or not, but it may very well be.

I really don't want Backman as a manager. Everything about him screams sociopath..... And embarrassment.

Zvon
May 01 2013 03:49 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

duan wrote:
Benjamin Grimm wrote:


A few years ago I was against the idea of Wally Backman. I don't think I am anymore. On this week's Mets Insider (the one that focuses on the Las Vegas team) he said something about how he'd be a better manager than a lot of the 30 people who currently have a major league job. I don't know if that's true or not, but it may very well be.

I really don't want Backman as a manager. Everything about him screams sociopath..... And embarrassment.

Might be better to have a manager who's already crazy as opposed to driving him there. I still support Collins. Unless he's batshit stupid I always want to support the current manager.

vtmet
May 01 2013 07:00 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

duan wrote:

I really don't want Backman as a manager. Everything about him screams sociopath..... And embarrassment.


Billy Martin worked out pretty well for the Yanks and A's in short doses...everything about him screamed sociopath as well, which was one of his better personality traits...not a long term solution, but effective at lighting a fire under his teams butt until they grew tired of his antics...

the one that would scare me is our Bench coach, Bob Geren (who from the sounds of it was not liked at all by his former players)...

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 07:05 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Yabbut, from the sound of it, neither was Terry.

It's a volatile field. They've all left some bad relationships in their backgrounds.

As far as Martin, well, let's just hope that Backman is about 100% less flammable.

Frayed Knot
May 01 2013 07:38 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Also, what's the point in putting up a short-term solution type of manager (assuming, for purposes of the argument that that's what Backman is) to lead a team that most assume is not in a quick-fix type of situation?

vtmet
May 01 2013 07:56 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 01 2013 08:06 PM

Frayed Knot wrote:
Also, what's the point in putting up a short-term solution type of manager (assuming, for purposes of the argument that that's what Backman is) to lead a team that most assume is not in a quick-fix type of situation?


I'd rather get a chance to evaluate Backman as an Interim manager before giving him a chance at the start of Spring Training...that way you get a chance to see how he handles things without a long time commitment...Right now, our biggest weakness is that we don't have any kind of a catalyst/sparkplug to wake out our offense...I really don't know how Backman would be as a manager, but as a player, he was a pest at the top of the order helping to create good hitting situations for the meat of the order...While he may not have any more answers than Terry has, at least he knows that part of the big guys getting the key RBI is because of the guys that got inside the pitchers'/defense heads in front of the Keith's/Gary's/Strawberry's...

did you see how Sandy handled managers in Oakland before finally getting Tony LaRussa?

Billy Martin left after the 1982 season, and Alderson took over in time for the 1983 season...
1983: Named Steve Boros manager;
1984: After 44 games, Boros was fired; Jackie Moore was hired;
1986: Jackie Moore was fired after 53 games; Jeff Newman was hired;
1986: After a 2-8 record; Jeff Newman was fired & LaRussa was hired;
By the way, Jackie Moore and Steve Boros produced records that weren't any worse than Terry Collins' record with the Mets;

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 08:05 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

I don't think Terry Collins is unaware that table setters --- and aggressive baserunners when you can get 'em --- are a positive asset for a team.

vtmet
May 01 2013 08:10 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Edgy MD wrote:
I don't think Terry Collins is unaware that table setters --- and aggressive baserunners when you can get 'em --- are a positive asset for a team.


I wouldn't doubt that Collins is more aware of the importance of speedy table setters than Sandy Anderson appears to be...On paper, OBP trumps speed in his philosophy (then again, he was also spoiled in Oakland with Rickey Henderson, who had OBP, speed and power)...

Frayed Knot
May 01 2013 08:14 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

vtmet wrote:
I wouldn't doubt that Collins is more aware of the importance of speedy table setters than Sandy Anderson appears to be...On paper, OBP trumps speed in his philosophy ...


Mine too.

Besides, when Backman hit .320 in '86 his top of the lineup contributions were a key piece. But the following season when his OBP fell 80 points to barely .300 his "catalyst" magic wasn't quite as effective.

vtmet
May 01 2013 08:37 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Frayed Knot wrote:
vtmet wrote:
I wouldn't doubt that Collins is more aware of the importance of speedy table setters than Sandy Anderson appears to be...On paper, OBP trumps speed in his philosophy ...


Mine too.

Besides, when Backman hit .320 in '86 his top of the lineup contributions were a key piece. But the following season when his OBP fell 80 points to barely .300 his "catalyst" magic wasn't quite as effective.


but there needs to be a balance there...a slow guy that gets on base often doesn't help; and a fast guy that can't get on base often doesn't help either...a Ruben Tejada type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP is going to produce less offense than a Jose Reyes type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP...

Valadius
May 01 2013 08:46 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Why can't we put Jeffy on the hot seat?

I really wish American sports teams were publicly-traded companies.

Edgy MD
May 01 2013 09:01 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

vtmet wrote:
but there needs to be a balance there...a slow guy that gets on base often doesn't help;

I'll disagree. I feel certain that batmagadanleadoff would also disagree. I'll even disagree with the notion that a fast guy that doesn't reach base very often doesn't help, depending on how not-very-often we're talking about.

I'm sure the goal isn't to proceed with Ruben Tejada reaching at a .333 clip.

I'm not sure what you're proposing Backman or anybody would or should do with the leadoff spot. Valdespin is an option, but that's certainly not clear.

vtmet
May 01 2013 09:27 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

with the current cast of characters and what we have at AA/AAA, I don't know if anyone could really come up with a decent leadoff hitter...I'm thinking that trading Angel Pagan when we lost Reyes to Free Agency probably wasn't the smartest move in the world (although Pagan/Collins didn't appear to be as good of a matchup as Pagan has in SF)...

MFS62
May 01 2013 09:40 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Catcher Del Crandall frequently batted second (behind Billy Bruton) for the Braves on their WS teams of the late 1950s. His highest OBP was less than .350 and he never stole more than 5 bases in a season.
(Of course, the hitters who followed him included Aaron, Matthews and Adcock, so Del wasn't called upon to steal very much.)

Later

metsguyinmichigan
May 01 2013 11:58 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

I dismiss anything written by Klapish from the get-go.

Why would you fire Collins after one bad week? That makes no sense. He didn't pick the outfield a bullpen. And I don't see any superstar manager waiting out there to slip in his place. You'd be looking at a Frank Howard-type of long-term interim.

Unless something abdominal happens, let him finish the season and go from there.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 02 2013 04:46 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

vtmet wrote:
a Ruben Tejada type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP is going to produce less offense than a Jose Reyes type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP...


The, um, home runs and triples and doubles may have something to do with that.

The whole managerial-influence-over-wins-and-losses issue notwithstanding, I have a feeling that Wally at the head of this team would be as effective as yelling at a pneumonia patient to make them better.

vtmet
May 02 2013 06:06 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
vtmet wrote:
a Ruben Tejada type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP is going to produce less offense than a Jose Reyes type batting leadoff to a .333 OBP...


The, um, home runs and triples and doubles may have something to do with that.

The whole managerial-influence-over-wins-and-losses issue notwithstanding, I have a feeling that Wally at the head of this team would be as effective as yelling at a pneumonia patient to make them better.


lol...that one immediately made me think of that Geico commercial that has a former Army Drill Sergeant as a Psychologist (yelling at the mamby-pamby guy on the couch)...

[youtube]XfmVBmDKLZI[/youtube]

Edgy MD
May 02 2013 06:09 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

I don't get what we're talking about? Will appointing Wally Backman bring about the next Jose Reyes --- a player whose presence Terry Collins is somehow keeping away?

I mean, if we're talking about Valdespin, then by all means, let's talk. We have a thread about him and everything.

metirish
May 02 2013 08:53 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Terry getting lots of support from the writers, a sure sign he is on the hot seat.

metsmarathon
May 02 2013 10:07 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

i would advocate murphy for leadoff, but good heavens, his obp is only 0.330!

metirish
May 03 2013 05:05 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Mike Puma (@NYPost_Mets) tweeted at 6:53 PM on Fri, May 03, 2013:
Alderson on possibility of firing TC: ""That's not something that has entered my mind or any mind within the organization." Full story ahead

(https://twitter.com/NYPost_Mets/status/ ... 9568207873)

Get the official Twitter app at https://twitter.com/download

Edgy MD
May 03 2013 09:16 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

I like how Sandy knows the unspoken thoughts of the entire organization. SCARY!

vtmet
May 04 2013 04:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Edgy MD wrote:
I like how Sandy knows the unspoken thoughts of the entire organization. SCARY!


he's told his organization: this is my thinking, and if you don't think this way, you can find employment elsewhere...

Centerfield
May 04 2013 05:53 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Terry's move in the tenth last night (letting Parnell see a pitch, sending Valdespin, then getting Baxter only after he made it) was the first time I can remember ever going from: "What the fuck is he doing?" to "OH! That makes perfect sense!"

I'm not kidding. That was a great fucking move.

Ceetar
May 04 2013 05:57 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Centerfield wrote:
Terry's move in the tenth last night (letting Parnell see a pitch, sending Valdespin, then getting Baxter only after he made it) was the first time I can remember ever going from: "What the fuck is he doing?" to "OH! That makes perfect sense!"

I'm not kidding. That was a great fucking move.


It was shockingly crafty. It sounds mean, but it's a level of strategy I don't really expect from Terry. I love it, it IS a great move. Now I'm surprised I haven't seen it before.

Frayed Knot
May 04 2013 06:26 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

And even the downside to it all wasn't all that down.

You figure normally that stealing with the pitcher up is a pretty dumb move seeing as how the pitcher's spot leads off the next inning if the runner is out.
But in this case Terry was already on his fifth reliever, Parnell had just bailed them out of a one-out/winning-run-on-3rd situation on a not-too-tough total of 14 pitches and was certainly your best shot to shut down the Braves in the bottom half or else there wouldn't even be a next inning. Then figure that the odds of scoring with a runner on 1st & 2-outs aren't all that good no matter who's up so "wasting" an AB there is arguably worth getting another inning out of supposedly your best reliever (and I'm arguing that it is).

So you try the steal and if it doesn't work then at least you get Bobby Pee for one more inning at which point you'd PH for him anyway but you'd be spending that PH-er to start an inning rather than (probably) end it. But then once the steal works the calculus changes.


btw, add the above scenario and all its permutations as reason # 35,487 as to why the DH rule suxxx.

Ceetar
May 04 2013 06:44 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Frayed Knot wrote:



btw, add the above scenario and all its permutations as reason # 35,487 as to why the DH rule suxxx.



indeed. screw the AL.

Swan Swan H
May 04 2013 07:14 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

I loved it. Gonzalez never saw it coming, otherwise he could have pitched out. The temperature on Terry's seat just went down a few degrees.

Edgy MD
May 04 2013 02:44 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Great points. And great framing of the situation by Centerfield and the former Leftfield.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 04 2013 09:24 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Between that freak-genius steal/PH call and "against the book" usage of Parnell to begin with, along with a few other decent calls... I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that last night might have been Terry Collins' finest in-game management as a Met.

Frayed Knot
May 05 2013 08:40 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Of course two innings earlier we were knocking him for being too quick on the Lefty/Righty switches.

Ashie62
May 05 2013 04:09 PM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

Managers are so committed to roles and such that I see little difference between any two managers, but thats just me..

batmagadanleadoff
May 13 2013 10:58 AM
Re: Hot Seat Terry

How restless Terry Collins made his peace with the 2013 Mets

By Howard Megdal
11:20 am May. 13, 2013



Saturday was one of the uglier days in the tenure of Terry Collins, now in his third and quite possibly final season as manager of the New York Mets.

Each of his first two years, Collins has been fortified by an unexpectedly strong start. The Mets were 46-45 at the All Star Break in 2011, 46-40 at the break in 2012. The second half each season was an unmitigated disaster, but Collins had, at least, a period of overachievement to point to during otherwise glum late-season postgame news conferences. Collins got credit for managing with what he had, and he deserved it.

This year, he's working with a team that is, on paper, less talented than each of its two predecessors. Collins knows it, too, and he's known it since spring training. The result has been a mad scientist's mixing of lineups and platoons and rotations. It isn't much of a stretch to say he's tried everything. It hasn't worked, not even against a schedule largely made up of the lesser lights of the league. The Mets are 14-20 after Sunday's 3-2 loss to the Pittsburgh Pirates.

What Collins really needs is for the Mets to spend more money on players, and this ownership group, whose own financial problems are well documented, isn't going to do that anytime soon.

Asked about top prospect Zack Wheeler's status on Friday night, after a horrific performance by starter Shaun Marcum, Collins said: "I can’t worry about people that aren’t here. You know, I’d like to have [Albert] Pujols, too, but I don’t have him."

So when Collins reflected on the Mets' 11-2 loss Saturday afternoon, after a terrible start by Opening Day starter Jon Niese, an offense that produced 12 runs over its previous five games, and a starting staff with an E.R.A. well over five without its ace Matt Harvey, he seemed resigned to letting his team go out and win or lose on its talent, not through some manic fix.

"We're gonna do some things tomorrow," Collins said, still in uniform, in response to my question about whether 14-19 was about where he expected to be. "You know what? We've got some run producers on this team? They're gonna start hitting where they belong to hit. You work hard, trying to put the best lineup out there, to put them in the right spots, and I'm sitting there, looking at it today, and," he paused, looking for the right way to say it.

"My guys are great, my players are tremendous, they're great guys, but I'm a little tired, I'm sitting there today thinking, it's enough thinking, trying to overmanage this. Let the players play. So I'm gonna turn 'em loose tomorrow, and let them go play, and hit in the spots they should hit in."

That apparently meant Ike Davis, off to a difficult start for a second year in a row, in the cleanup spot despite entering the game with an O.P.S.+ of 68. David Wright, the Met who is producing offensively, hit third. Lucas Duda, who off to strong offensive start, hit fifth.

Thanks to Matt Harvey, who battled subpar command (for him, anyway) to turn in a seven-inning, two-run performance, the Mets stayed in the game on Sunday, despite producing only two runs and four hits into the eighth inning.

Daniel Murphy, the number-two hitter, led off with a double, and took third on a wild pitch. Wright was walked, somewhat intentionally. That brought Davis to the plate. But Davis missed a hittable fastball for strike one, fouled off strike two, and weakly waved at a curve for strike three. Then Duda lined a ball down the first base line that looked like a double for sure, before it hit first base and caromed up to second baseman Jordy Mercer, who threw Duda out.

A sacrifice fly from Davis, the cleanup hitter, would have tied the game. And a team with even average hitting would have given Harvey, a pitcher with a 1.98 E.R.A. over his past four starts and four no-decisions to show for it, a chance to earn the victory.

Afterwards, Davis took responsibility, which isn't new. Davis is a hard worker, and has never shied away from discussing his shortcomings with reporters.

Davis, "noticeably morose" in the words of MLB.com's Anthony DiComo, said: "It's my job. I don't like doing horrible at my job."

"I have to produce more," Davis said, "or I won't play at this level."

For another team, sure. But Davis hit like this for another month longer last season, sporting a .161 batting average on June 7 last season, before rallying. On another team, a capable hitter who can manage first base, the easiest defensive position to fill, while Davis found his stroke at Triple-A wouldn't be hard to find.

But the Mets' only realistic alternative to Davis, Lucas Duda, is going through the motions of playing left field. Davis' backup, Justin Turner, is not really a viable hitter at second base or third base, let alone first base. The Triple-A first baseman, Josh Satin, is not a real prospect. And the same is true of Double-A first basemen Richard Lucas and Allan Dykstra.

So Collins will continue to turn 'em loose. Because, as he realizes, there's nothing else to do now.

"We're getting hit now with a two-headed monster: we're not hitting and we're not pitching," Collins said after Sunday's game. "Certainly we've got to get it going, and there's no secret formula how to do it."


http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/s ... featured-4