Master Index of Archived Threads
Hot Seat Ike
batmagadanleadoff May 02 2013 08:19 AM |
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How much longer can the Mets afford to play Ike Davis?
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2013/5/1/42 ... -ike-davis
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metirish May 02 2013 08:47 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I think the forum here didn't overlook how awful a start he has had.....the booth had a n interesting in game chat with the hitting coach I think last week.....Keith was asking great questions and making great observations , the coach was too....my take away was that Ike is not that good at taking instructions...
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seawolf17 May 02 2013 09:50 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
You have to let him work it out. He has no trade value right now, and he's not going to get any better in Las Vegas or Binghamton. You need him to get through it.
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Ceetar May 02 2013 10:18 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Discussed this some on this week's Amazin' Avenue Audio Podcast
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A Boy Named Seo May 02 2013 10:48 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Ike's got plenty of flaws, but he's still one of our better flawed guys. The Nats are still running out Adam LaRoche. The Braves, BJ Upton. Guys get off to extended, shitty starts sometimes. What are the Mets gonna turn it over to Josh Satin?
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Zvon May 02 2013 02:36 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I'm not against him being sent down to the minors like I was last season. Maybe he needs that type of a wake up call.
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Swan Swan H May 09 2013 09:00 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
When Davis came up for his last AB last night he was blinking his eyes to the point where it was making me nervous. Blinking and opening them up wide in that 'who, me, I'm not tired' move. Makes me wonder if there's not something there that's bothering him.
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Edgy MD May 09 2013 09:08 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The distressing thing to me is that he publicly denied to the moon and back that he was feeling any effects of his condition last year.
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Ceetar May 09 2013 09:12 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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too late for excuses. He floated the "ankle weakness and valley fever tiredness" in Spring Training as an excuse for last year, but it doesn't matter. He's gotta fight through that stuff. I wonder how players treat and respect rest. They have such wild schedules, and I always marvel at the affect being fully rested, or at least 'not tired' has on my mental capabilities so I can't imagine it'd be different for baseball players. Their brains do crazy things like recognize pitch break and trajectory subconsciously and I can't imagine that wouldn't be sharper with a fresh mind. In any case, no excuse Ike. Figure out how to be consistent.
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Edgy MD May 09 2013 09:26 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Us analyzing what's wrong with him, and him making excuses is not the same thing.
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Swan Swan H May 09 2013 09:33 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Maybe it's allergies. Maybe it's a mild eye infection or conjunctivitis or restasis (thank you, Janine Turner). All I know is that to my untrained eye he looked like a guy who would have trouble following a major league pitcher.
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G-Fafif May 09 2013 10:39 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I thought this was a thread about Ike's sweet, sweet ass.
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Swan Swan H May 09 2013 11:23 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Maybe it's hemorrhoids. Maybe it's dingleberry buildup.....
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G-Fafif May 09 2013 11:30 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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When Ike asked Mr. Roarke to make him the kind of player George Brett was, he had no idea how it would backfire. (And the backfire is the worst part.)
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Benjamin Grimm May 13 2013 07:23 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
NPR had a report on Valley Fever this morning on Morning Edition.
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Ceetar May 13 2013 07:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I keep pondering the 'ever officially diagnosed' thing, and I can't find any indication of it. It surprises me what things the media chooses to dig up, and what they don't follow up on. Davis himself seemed to confirm it this Spring when he mentioned how he felt last year, but I sorta assumed that was a "best shape of his life" quote. I'm pretty sure he was never on medication though, I thought the initial report that he may have had it indicated he wouldn't need medication and had no symptoms. Either way, I really have no idea what to say about Davis. Valley Fever recurrence? Bad mechanics? Bad attitude? Drinks too much? Burr in his saddle? Possessed by Aliens? I'm as convinced he'll start a tear tomorrow as that he needs to go down to Vegas to 'work on some things'. (And clearly, if anyone else KNEW The answer, they'd have done it already)
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 13 2013 07:45 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Valley Fever is real and not something the beat writers made up.
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Ceetar May 13 2013 07:51 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Yes, but his ACTUAL diagnosis was never confirmed at the time, and the beat writers never bothered to follow up on it. They were waiting another test or the doctors to look at the MRI or somesuch, or maybe the Mets/Davis never followed up. The initial report was that he had symptoms that indicated he might have Valley Fever. Jackson also isn't Davis, and had developed symptoms that Davis reportedly never had.
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vtmet May 13 2013 07:57 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I wonder if Ike's just too much of a warm weather dude...He's from Arizona, so most of his pre-Mets playing was done in a hot climate (little league, high school, college)...
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metirish May 13 2013 08:02 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Regarding the diagnosis or not, from 2012
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_ ... r-symptoms Whatever he had or has one thing that has not changed is how horribly fooled he looks at times waving at pitches.
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MFS62 May 13 2013 08:24 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Wilmer Flores started at first base last night for Las Vegas.
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Edgy MD May 13 2013 09:10 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
As noted above, he's already admitted that he was symtomatic through a large chunk of last year, putting whatever he says this year about he issue in doubt.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 13 2013 09:15 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Interesting, maybe? I thought LV already had 2 RHH first basemen in Campbell and Satin.
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batmagadanleadoff May 13 2013 09:22 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/ike ... NuUDdo27FM
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Edgy MD May 13 2013 09:30 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Well, Campbell and Satin, like Flores as well, aren't so much firstbasemen as guys from elsewhere around the diamond who can hit pretty good compared to those guys at other positions, but aren't very good at playing them defensively. So getting Flores time at first and moving Satin to second is probably a pretty lateral move overall.
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Ceetar May 13 2013 09:38 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I know people have floated the Duda to first idea, but I like the Satin/Campbell/Flores solution better than that at least. With first at least you can theoretically find someone to hit a little, if you move Duda you're in essence replacing Ike with the..7th?..outfielder on the depth chart.
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Swan Swan H May 13 2013 09:44 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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But you're also gaining the defense that you get in replacing Lurch out in left. Duda's stats at first, admittedly in a small sample size, are about average. I also think Duda might be more comfortable at first and maybe he'd relax a bit not worrying about playing out of position.
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Edgy MD May 13 2013 09:46 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
There's that.
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Frayed Knot May 13 2013 10:19 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The other problem with Duda to 1B is that he's the only regular in the OF right now so pulling him out would create even more of a Chinese Fire Drill out there. And then of course he'd theoretically be moved back when/if Ike straightened himself out and be a month or two rustier at playing a position he's already not good at.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 13 2013 10:24 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I'm just afraid this stuff with Davis is here to stay. These terrible starts 2 years straight, following that frustrating ankle year, he's just not reliable enough to hit 4th everyday. The Mets need to start planning a way to not have to rely on this guy, then maybe he'll surprise.
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Edgy MD May 13 2013 10:35 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, last night, in my head, I was Terry ripping apart the team before today's game. I was all, "Lucas? Where the fuck is Lucas? Lucas, you're our fourth-place hitter ever night for the next month. No exceptions. No days off. It's your job. Your team needs you. NOW GET OUT OF ON THE FIELD!"
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vtmet May 13 2013 12:10 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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maybe they want to try one that has a chance of successfully hitting MLB pitching...Plus, there aren't a lot of placed that Flores could successfully play at the MLB level...he's supposedly not agile enough for middle infield; 3B is blocked for a long time; and he's supposedly too slow to play the OF (yet, somehow they believe that Duda/Byrd are not)...
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vtmet May 13 2013 12:12 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Terry COllins loved Chinese Fire Drills...
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Zvon May 13 2013 01:16 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I think the only way Duda gets moved to first is if we move Ike and then Duda plays first all the time. I'm not saying I want that. No way. I know that I don't want Duda being bounced around position wise mid season. Ike is our first baseman until he isn't. If we send him down for a spell, plenty of players can fill that spot as opposed to unsettling Duds again.
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Benjamin Grimm May 13 2013 01:39 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I don't know about "plenty", but I tend to agree that it would be better not to move Duda, or Murphy for that matter, to first base as a temporary measure. I would guess that the choices for an alternative to Davis are Turner, Campbell, or Satin. The time may very well come when one of them will get a shot. Davis may or may not snap out of this and become the long-term answer that we'd all like him to be, but it may soon be time to start working on Plan B. For the moment, the options are all internal.
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Edgy MD May 13 2013 01:43 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I love players moved around. I think all good teams have versatile guys who get moved around. It's a good reminder to them and to everybody that their job is to hit and if they do that, the manager will find room for them.
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Swan Swan H May 16 2013 03:01 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The Sound of Whiffing
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Zvon May 16 2013 03:21 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
After that one at bat today, 3 curves, 3 horrible swing and misses, I'm officially worried about Ike. He stared down the pitcher as if to say :How dare you do that to me? Go look in the mirror Ike. That's who you should be concerned for. That's who is hurting you the most. While you're there, practice and visualize your swing.
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Edgy MD May 16 2013 04:48 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Collins committed to batting Ike fourth through the weekend, or at least until the Mets face lefty Travis Wood on Sunday.
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Ashie62 May 16 2013 06:35 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
If Ike gets expensive after this season just ride the year out with him and move on..
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Zvon May 18 2013 01:00 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Swan Swan H May 18 2013 01:40 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Daric Barton DFAed, eh? If they could get him for a reasonable package I'd put him in Las Vegas for two weeks and see what he's got.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 18 2013 01:47 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yup, time to do it.
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Edgy MD May 18 2013 03:21 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Alderson and Davis meet today, as per the Rube, and both came away claiming that Alderson indicated that a demotion was not imminent.
I'd totally give that answer. People would hate me if I was GM.
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Ashie62 May 18 2013 04:58 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It would read well on a fortune cookie...
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Frayed Knot May 20 2013 10:43 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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He was a big time bat prospect after being drafted in the 1st round by the Cards, but that was back in 2003; turns 28 in August. Hits lefty too so it wouldn't be practical to think of him in a platoon with Ike. Also not a lot to feel good about concerning his last three seasons with Oakland [.205/.323/.276] except for his ability to draw walks.
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Frayed Knot May 21 2013 06:46 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Aww the hell with that thinking, we should specifically look for a lefty bat to play 1B so he can be platooned with Turner. Between his 1-fer-30s, diminished defense*, and his sleep-standing on 1st base, Ike is bringing nothing to the table at this point. * it might be too harsh to say that it's costing the team runs but it is noticeably sloppier
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Benjamin Grimm May 21 2013 06:59 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yes, I think it's time we accept that Ike Davis isn't likely to be the player we expected or hoped he would be. It's unfortunate, and sad, but even if Ike suddenly snaps out of it like he did last year, will we have any confidence that he won't go oh-for-April-and-May again in 2014? If this team is to become a contender, they'll need someone a lot more reliable than Ike has become.
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Edgy MD May 21 2013 07:09 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
And it's become very hard to give him the reps that he'll need to get out of it during major league games.
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Edgy MD May 22 2013 07:54 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Crazy thought, but how about calling up Alan Dykstra and his .436 OBP from AA?
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MFS62 May 22 2013 08:52 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
(tongue only partially in cheek)
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Benjamin Grimm May 22 2013 08:54 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It had gone away for a while, but the "he can't be any worse than what we already have" meme has been recently making a comeback.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 22 2013 09:36 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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He's like Daric Barton-- right down to the first-round pedigree-- only he's ours. Why not find out what we have-- it's that kind of a year, right?
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Edgy MD May 22 2013 09:53 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
At least give him some Vegas time. They've been rotating infielders from other positions over to first for two months now.
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Benjamin Grimm May 22 2013 12:27 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Ike last year after 43 games: .156/.212/.291, 5 homers, 15 rbi.
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Vic Sage May 22 2013 02:14 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Argh. eNUFF with this guy!
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Edgy MD May 22 2013 02:25 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I think it's better than even money that he goes down before the sun does.
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Chad Ochoseis May 22 2013 02:31 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I was about as hard core "keep Ike in the majors" as they come. But it's time, Ike. If it's any consolation, I think tickets are still available to Penn & Teller at Rio this weekend.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 22 2013 02:35 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Residency at Caesar's Palace did good for Rod Stewart's career.
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Vic Sage May 22 2013 02:44 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
he can go fuck a white tiger for all i care (though that might make Siegfried jealous).
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Ceetar May 22 2013 03:12 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I get wanting to wish him out of town. I'd still play him but I'd be willing to give those other guys (not Valdespin, Turner) chances too. I'd go with whatever the best chance to win is, as always.
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Vic Sage May 22 2013 03:16 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
1bmen in system:
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metirish May 22 2013 04:48 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Keith talks about how Ike gets into a wide stance when going bad, like now.....the hitting coach agrees, if I remember correctly in one in game conversation the hitting coach said something to the effect that Ike can be stubborn(didn't use that word I think) and knows he shouldn't go wide but still does........
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G-Fafif May 22 2013 05:16 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Arizona-raised Ike explains why he's so durn stupid.
The dog ate his glove, in other words. If he's still here by Friday, then the complacency is galling.
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Ceetar May 22 2013 08:01 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
That seems an extremely well thought out response in my eyes..
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dinosaur jesus May 22 2013 08:04 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Ike Davis is going to kick around three or four organizations in the next three or four years, getting signed and dropped and mostly sitting on the bench. Then in 2018 he's going to land in Oakland and hit fifty home runs. And we're all going to hate him even more than we do right now.
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Edgy MD May 22 2013 08:19 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It ain't personal if they play somebody else. Just weighing different concerns against different options and making the most responsible strategic deployment that they can.
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Zvon May 22 2013 09:36 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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It does look like a well thought out response but unfortunately its based on the assumption that there wasn't another option. Like a recent similar play, if he aggressively charged the ball in, if he played it as Kieth would have (no one will ever be Mex but we all know Davis can be great fielder), he had a chance and that run was big. Also, getting the sure out should have been a priority as soon as he decided not to charge and waited for it. Anything more than that is over thinking. I love Davis too, and I want so much for him to succeed. But right now his head is no longer completely into whats happening at the moment, and what has become a rally point for the media is becoming a distraction to the entire team. I strongly feel he should not be a starting player for the big club until further notice. The minors is the logical move if they want him to continue getting regular at bats as he works this out. Carrying a non hitting Ike is one thing. Carrying an Ike that isn't hitting or fielding his position,....what's the point?
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Benjamin Grimm May 23 2013 06:06 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Looks like he'll still be with the Mets at least through the weekend.
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Edgy MD May 23 2013 06:30 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The Keith standard is indeed the gold one. But his aggressive charging is mostly associated with bunt plays where he had an idea where the ball was to be hit before the pitch was released. Not a great analogy.
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Ceetar May 23 2013 07:08 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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indeed. I'm okay with our first basemen, even in perpetuity, not being up to Keith's standards. I'm also okay with winning not quite 1 billion dollars, in case you were curious.
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MFS62 May 23 2013 07:24 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Through all this , has anyone mentioned giving him an eye test?
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metirish May 23 2013 07:27 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I am sure it's part of routine yearly physicals? What about an IQ test?
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Lefty Specialist May 23 2013 07:38 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, he'll have to change planes in Charlotte, but they'd better hurry- there's only 1 seat left at this price.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 23 2013 07:39 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
ouch!
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seawolf17 May 23 2013 07:56 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Because everyone on this team is terrible at baseball.
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Edgy MD May 23 2013 08:11 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
If only it were that simple.
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metirish May 23 2013 08:11 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I wonder what team hosting the All Star Game has the worst record going to the festivities?
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Edgy MD May 23 2013 08:13 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It's certainly happened, but I think that's a worry for another day.
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metirish May 23 2013 08:17 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, I'm not worried about it.......curious is all.
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Edgy MD May 23 2013 08:41 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
A quick check puts Pittsburgh in dead last in MLB at the All-Star break in 2006.
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Ceetar May 23 2013 08:44 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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and they still charged $50 to park at the close lots.
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Benjamin Grimm May 23 2013 08:45 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, the fans weren't going to the park to see the last-place Pirates.
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batmagadanleadoff May 23 2013 08:47 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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What can the Mets do about Ike Davis?
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/s ... -ike-davis
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batmagadanleadoff May 23 2013 08:50 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/sport ... seman.html
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batmagadanleadoff May 23 2013 08:54 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Ike Davis could soon be Ike Vegas
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_ ... d-demotion
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Benjamin Grimm May 23 2013 08:58 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Almost three quarters of the season still remains, so there's still time for things to take a major turn for the better. With that caveat aside, so far this year is looking like a near total disaster.
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Ceetar May 23 2013 09:09 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Why is Lucas Duda no longer the answer?
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Benjamin Grimm May 23 2013 09:14 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Because he's not good enough.
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batmagadanleadoff May 23 2013 09:16 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Parnell's improved, no?
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seawolf17 May 23 2013 09:17 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Disagree. Duda's the second-best offensive weapon on this team. Maybe not much of a defender, but he's a usable piece.
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metirish May 23 2013 09:19 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I think Duda at first could be a disaster(apologies to real disasters) with the glove, especially if it happened because Davis got sent down....added pressure and all that.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 23 2013 09:19 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Duda's gonna have a good year when it's all over. I think they're committed to sticking with him in left until or unless Ike becomes permanently unable to help through being unable to get it together here or the minors or an injury. Which could happen but not right away.
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Ceetar May 23 2013 09:21 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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but he is..so.. Anyway, Duda at first unless you're committed to that plan forever probably means Cowgill in left? The reason you don't move Duda is because there seem to be more 'hitter' types that you can play at first right now.
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Lefty Specialist May 23 2013 09:27 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Duda's a better answer than the other options. First, he's done it in the past, and while he's no Keith Hernandez, he wasn't as bad as many feared. We already know he's an awkward, lumbering outfielder, and that's not going to change no matter how long he's out there.
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Benjamin Grimm May 23 2013 09:31 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Just because Duda's better than any other outfielder or first baseman on the team, it doesn't mean he's good enough to be a starter on a contender, which is, I hope, still the goal.
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Vic Sage May 23 2013 09:33 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Why do these articles keep saying "the Mets have no one to replace him"? Do we have a top 1B prospect ready? No, but Brown and Lutz are on the 40-man, and Campbell and Satin are at AAA, too, and they're all hitting well this year. You can throw Dykstra at AA in there for good measure. These aren't young kids and they've proven to be hitters at the top minor league levels. I'd say any of them could hit better than .150 while Davis takes the time to work on his swing in Vegas.
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Ceetar May 23 2013 09:38 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Because these articles have written off 2013 (which might be with good cause at this point) and are focused on the future. None of these guys are considered long-term answers or big prospects, so the idea is that Ike Davis is probably the "most talented" of the bunch and if he doesn't right himself in a convincing way you'd go elsewhere anyway. I tend to agree with you though. Lutz is my choice due to 40 man simplicity if they choose to replace Ike. Duda's 26th in the NL in wOBA. that's certainly good.
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seawolf17 May 23 2013 09:41 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Josh Satin is .300/.414/.475 in Vegas. I know he's not on the 40, which complicates the issue, but I'd rather try to sneak Lutz or Cowgill through waivers and give him a shot.
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Vic Sage May 23 2013 09:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
i wrote off 2013 before the season started, so i have no issue with that. I just think that Davis needs some time away, with an incentive to accept changes in his approach, if he's ever going to be anything. And it does the other young players on the team no good at all to marinate in the juice of Davis's fruitless flailing. It's depressing to all and sundry. And whether Lutz, Satin, Cambell or Brown are "the answer" at 1B has yet to be determined. Some AAAA guys just need a real shot.
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Vic Sage May 23 2013 09:44 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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yes. yes it is. In fact, if you looked up terrible OFs in the Encyclopedia Britannica, there they'd be.
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Edgy MD May 23 2013 09:48 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I think Duda in left and Duda at first and Duda alternating between left and first are all viable options depending on who you add to the lineup. If Duda was the problem, we'd be a lot better.
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batmagadanleadoff May 23 2013 09:49 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I think so, too. Duda is never gonna be an adequate major league outfielder.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 23 2013 10:19 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Boo Radley's a lot closer to adequate at first than he is in the outfield, though, right? And he's a lot closer to adequate there (with bat, at least) than our minor-league options there (although I wouldn't argue with bringing Lutz/Campbell up as a semi-platoon/PH option).
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Edgy MD May 23 2013 10:22 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
He's probably younger than what Lee created, but if a film remake cast Duda as Boo Radley, I'd go and see it about 100 times.
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Mets – Willets Point May 23 2013 10:24 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The real problem is that they stopped updating Ike Davis Facts.
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duan May 23 2013 10:26 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Baseball Prospectus (early in the season) had half a podcast devoted to Ike Davis and saying how he basically didn't seem to get that there was an issue with his overall approach. His response to his troubles was (and this was a direct quote)
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Benjamin Grimm May 23 2013 10:29 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Boo Radley! I love it! Best Mets nickname of the year!
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 23 2013 10:29 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Or "Boom Radley?"
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Ceetar May 23 2013 10:30 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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is that what happened? I'm not sure I'm convinced that his overall approach isn't just a symptom and not a cause. Presumably he's taking different approaches in desperation too. I wonder if he's tried just standing up there a whole game and refusing to swing and see if he can steal some walks.
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Edgy MD May 23 2013 10:32 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Also works with the double meaning of "Scout."
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 23 2013 10:32 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
/Points fingergun, winks
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Ashie62 May 23 2013 06:21 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The Mets are on a pace to lose 100...If I am led to believe the rebuild is taking they can address the Ike situation be a means other than putting their heads in the sand.
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metsmarathon May 23 2013 08:48 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
expectorate the mets!
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duan May 24 2013 05:23 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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But their point was, he (Ike Davis) expected Pitcher Mistakes = Homers for Ike and that he was fundamentally missing the point. His only expectation was to run into mistakes and deposit them over the wall. That isn't enough to be a valuable hitter.
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Frayed Knot May 24 2013 05:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
That's the type of hitter that scouting reports label as someone who "can be pitched to".
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Ceetar May 24 2013 07:18 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Adam Dunn, Ryan Howard, etc. Three True Outcome type hitters. Most big lefties seem to fit this mold, when they're sluggers anyway, because so many believe a 'solid lefty in the pen' basically neutralizes them. I think there was hope Davis was beyond that, but perhaps he's not. I wonder if _he_ resigned himself to the idea if he'd be less slumpy. Perhaps he set himself up wrong to start this season. He clearly came in as scouted as a power hitter, so I wonder if he'd tailored his approach more like Duda (i.e. take everything you can't smash) if he'd get some of those 'scared' walks pitchers give out, especially early on when control might be a little flakier. And then if he smashes a couple he'll only get more 'scared' walks. I dunno, just spitballing here. I always wonder (and maybe teams do) if it'd be worthwhile to set up a 'dummy scouting company' and hire people to advance scout your own team. presumably they'll see the same things other teams see, and then you can adjust according.
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Vic Sage May 24 2013 07:58 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
the dummy scouting company is called a "coaching staff", and i'm sure they share their insights with each other and the team throughout a season.
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batmagadanleadoff May 24 2013 08:39 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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So if Ike is demoted, who's on first?
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/fir ... Ibjh6qV40J
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metirish May 24 2013 09:23 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I thought two weeks ago you couldn't do "any worse", but indeed you have, so yeah, you can do worse.
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Swan Swan H May 24 2013 08:00 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Adam Rubin ?@AdamRubinESPN 1m
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metirish May 24 2013 08:41 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Golden again for all the wrong reasons tonight.
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Edgy MD May 24 2013 09:04 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Flores in bloom at first tonight in Vegas.
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Ashie62 May 26 2013 01:19 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Jesus Montero has been Ikelike in Seattle...The Mariners sent hin to AAA...
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Lefty Specialist May 27 2013 04:51 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Ike's clutch single on national TV last night probably bought him a couple of extra weeks to flail and bail in New York.
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Zvon May 27 2013 05:01 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I figure he's got these two games at Citi.
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smg58 May 28 2013 10:31 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Does Ike still have options, or would he have to be placed on waivers?
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Edgy MD May 28 2013 10:37 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Maybe that standing O on his RBI single the other night should have been Terry's cue to get him out on a positive and send him down after the game --- or better yet, remove him for a pinch-runner and send him down immediately.
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Frayed Knot May 28 2013 10:40 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I'm almost positive he still has options. Certainly folks keep talking about it as if he does - and folks who actually know what they're talking about, like Gary C and others who you would think would have brought up the subject of waivers if that were an issue.
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Zvon May 28 2013 06:00 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I have some free time. Okay, here's how I would fix Ike.
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Edgy MD May 28 2013 07:12 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, he's not crouching in his first trip.
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Zvon May 28 2013 08:09 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Nor his second. That's a step in the right direction, I firmly believe.
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Zvon May 28 2013 08:13 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Now I hope they afford him a few more steps before giving up. He'll find the groove. And that short porch in Skanktown is mighty inviting.
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Ashie62 May 28 2013 08:22 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Once Ike is behind in the count he is an automatic out..
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Frayed Knot May 28 2013 08:28 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Once Ike is in the batters box he's an automatic out.
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Swan Swan H May 28 2013 09:11 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It's a two-seater, and Ruben Tejada is shotgun.
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Ashie62 May 28 2013 09:15 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Thats pretty good
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smg58 May 29 2013 07:19 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Well he's almost always getting behind, so you're both right. The key to whatever recovery Ike will have is strike one. As in, don't let anybody throw a fastball to get it, and don't go fishing for what would be ball one.
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Frayed Knot May 29 2013 07:25 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
As somebody said on the broadcast last night (and you can do it now with these 'Pitch F/X' charts) if you were to see a graph of all the pitches Ike's seen lately and the results you'll probably see most of his swings-and-misses are at stuff out of the zone and many of the ones he takes wind up as called strikes.
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Ceetar May 29 2013 07:34 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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well, someone run one! (I don't have the time to figure it out at work. bleh, jobs.)
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Benjamin Grimm May 29 2013 07:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
If that's true, that he's taking strikes and swinging at balls, then he's about as lost as you can be.
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metirish May 29 2013 07:53 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Yeah, Ron was telling Keith.......he concurred .....from what I have see they rarely even throw him strikes now...why would they, he swings at shit. Ike has got to go.
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metsmarathon May 29 2013 07:53 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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i don't know how to make one of the charts, but i do know how to look at the raw numbers...
what does it all mean, other than that there's a difference between what bis calls a strike and what pitch f/x calls a strike? well, ike isn't really swinging at balls out of the zone more often, but when he does, he's making much less contact. and he's not taking more pitches in teh zone for strikes. in fact, the opposite is happening. he's swinging a maybe little more often, but making less contact. he's also getting thrown more strikes, because pitchers aren't afraid of him doing much of anything with the ball.
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Centerfield May 29 2013 08:17 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I don't know how else to put it, but Ike Davis looks like a guy who lacks the ability to hit major league pitching.
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metirish May 29 2013 08:19 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Have you guys noticed how he squints and blinks a lot after flailing hopelessly at a pitch? I've seen this a few times now , like he has bad eye allergies or something.
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seawolf17 May 29 2013 08:46 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
As far as I can tell, he has one major problem: He's terrible at baseball.
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Swan Swan H May 29 2013 08:56 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Absolutely. I mentioned it back on page 1 of this thread, and it's not getting any better.
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metirish May 29 2013 09:14 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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You sure did .....
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Frayed Knot May 29 2013 09:27 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Which implies that the bad balls he's swinging at are really bad now as compared to maybe only slightly out of the zone in the past.
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Swan Swan H May 29 2013 09:33 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it. Now if they only do something about it.....
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Vic Sage May 29 2013 09:46 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Except the notion that he just lacks the ability to hit major league pitching is contradicted by his actual major league performance prior to this season. Unless we're saying something happened between the end of last season and the beginning of this one (injury? illness? mental breakdown? replaced by a pod person?), or that he suffers from a heretofore unknown hitter's syndrome similar to the Steve Blass syndrome suffered by pitchers (including our own CFer), then it seems too easy to say "oh, he just sucks." IF only it were that simple, it would be less frustrating.
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Edgy MD May 29 2013 10:05 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I certainly don't think he lacks bat speed. He's just got an approach that's all flummoxed, and has failed at the internal game of figuring out what pitch to expect, what part of the plate to expect it, how to cover that part of the plate, and how to defend against being wrong. All players fail at it --- most fail seven times out of ten or more. But when you fail enough, you adjust your approach so much that you've lost faith in it and go up there clueless, and the slump becomes self-perpetuating.
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Centerfield May 29 2013 10:12 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Of course, he absolutely has the ability to do so. Which is what is so baffling. I'm just saying when other players slump, they tend to have problems (getting out in front, swinging for the fences) that we've seen before. And those, while hard to break, at least there is a game plan to attack them. With Ike, right now, he appears to lack batspeed and the requisite hand-eye coordination. If I had never seen him before, I'd say he's not a major league player. I don't know how you correct that. I don't know how you get him back to a .900+ OPS guy (before his ankle injury) other than to say "Don't start your swing as early, when you start it, swing faster, and when you swing, hit the ball better."
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Edgy MD May 29 2013 10:26 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
And apart from my daily plotzing over Allan Dykstra, it's worth noting that Wilmer Flores has had multiple hits in four straight games.
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Vic Sage May 29 2013 10:29 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 29 2013 10:32 AM |
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sounds like sound advice to me. Reminds me of this time at college, when i had friend (yes I did!) named, lets call him "Fred". Fred had poor social skills and could come off nakedly manipulative and desperate. I liked him anyway, but the folks i hung with gave Fred a hard time. And so one day he comes to me for advice "how can i get them to like me?" he asks (The very question betrays why they did not). And all i could think of to say was "Fred, you know the way you are? Well, don't be that way." Ike, you know the way you are? Don't be that way. Now play ball!
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Vic Sage May 29 2013 10:32 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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and Josh Satin has a career .300+BA/.400 OB%/ .850 OPS over 2600 plate appearances. Why shouldn't he get a legit shot?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 29 2013 10:33 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Satin & Dykstra are non-40men which complicates things a little. Just saying.
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Vic Sage May 29 2013 10:34 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
you move Francisco to the 60-day. complication solved.
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Edgy MD May 29 2013 10:41 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Not saying he shouldn't. Clearly the team has options but are shy about upsetting their long-term hopes for Davis.
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Benjamin Grimm May 29 2013 10:48 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Those long-term hopes would have to be a lot less than they had been, I would think.
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batmagadanleadoff May 29 2013 10:51 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
First baseman "Marvelous" Marv Throneberry was sent down to AAA (Buffalo) in May of '63, and never returned to the majors.
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Edgy MD May 29 2013 11:20 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
And Kranepool 1970 did. Life is fraught with peril. He knows what will get him back and he has to figure out how to deliver it.
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Lefty Specialist May 29 2013 01:24 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Be sure to bring change for tolls, Ike.
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Frayed Knot Jun 05 2013 06:14 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Maybe Ike ought to think about giving up the chewing tabaccy.
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Zvon Jun 05 2013 06:35 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Do players get a tobacco rush from chewin that shit? I still smoke cigs but I never understood chewing tobacco. Did try it once and it kinda stung and I did get a lil hyper rush. Never tried it again.
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Frayed Knot Jun 05 2013 06:36 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Hell yeah, it's why they chew.
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Zvon Jun 05 2013 06:42 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Looks like Ike spit it out for this at bat. Look for his laptop on the bench cuz he's gotta be reading you.
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Nymr83 Jun 05 2013 06:52 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Send him down. I'd like to see what Satin can do.
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Zvon Jun 05 2013 06:57 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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And then I can take advantage of the twitter account I call "Josh Satins Eyebrows"
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Edgy MD Jun 05 2013 07:26 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Ah, yes, Kim Carnes' lesser-loved followup single.
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metirish Jun 09 2013 03:41 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Optioned to Las Vegas along with Baxter and Carson
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metirish Jun 09 2013 03:43 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
per @MarcGraig
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G-Fafif Jun 09 2013 03:56 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Maybe Ike can convert his hot seat into a hot hand and get lucky in Vegas.
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Ashie62 Jun 09 2013 07:08 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Terry Collins is next to get whacked..
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metirish Jun 09 2013 07:14 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Maybe he is but it wouldn't matter a jot with this group.
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Edgy MD Jun 09 2013 07:31 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
And these guys didn't get whacked.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2013 01:23 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Has Ike become non-tender candidate?
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... -candidate
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 10 2013 01:29 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yeah. "They" did.
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Edgy MD Jun 10 2013 01:30 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yeah, really. Promise me that executive never works for the Mets.
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Ceetar Jun 10 2013 01:49 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
There was also the "I had Tommy John surgery and probably won't be available to pitch to start the season" bit with Pelfrey, but I guess we can gloss over that?
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2013 06:19 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 10 2013 08:11 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
That is just a terrible similarity score, Edward.
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Zvon Jun 10 2013 09:20 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Ike will be back someday.
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metsguyinmichigan Jun 10 2013 09:33 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Big Pelf has a 6.40 era and is 3-6. Did they make the right call on that one?
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Edgy MD Jun 10 2013 09:42 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Hard to argue otherwise.
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Edgy MD Jun 17 2013 12:47 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Ike in Vegas: .174 / .296 / .217 // .514 in six games and 27 plate appearances. That's at least an improvement on the .500 OPS he was putting up in the bigs, but nobody's idea of a turnaround. He has no homers and one RBI. He's walked four times and whiffed seven.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2013 08:20 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
[youtube]DIoKr9VDg3A[/youtube]
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Frayed Knot Jun 21 2013 08:27 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yeah, he's suddenly up to .306/.457/.583 // 1040 over 36 ABs/46 PAs, which looks even better after that slow start
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Edgy MD Jun 21 2013 08:37 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I'm guessing they hope he returns first game after the All-Star break --- that is, if he's not voted onto the team.
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Ceetar Jun 21 2013 08:39 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
honestly I wouldn't be surprised tosee him back if he continue to hit at this rate the next time the Mets are home.
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vtmet Jun 21 2013 08:52 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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agreed...if a lot of his problems are timing, overthinking, routine; then bringing him back before the A/S Game doesn't make sense to me when he'd be "benched" for 4 consecutive days due to the A/S break... but at the same time...Mets fans should focus their attention on getting Ike elected to the A/S game...when was the last time that a player that was demoted to AAA been elected to the A/S game? I know DL'd guys get in semi-often, but AAAA players?
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vtmet Jun 21 2013 08:53 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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it took a few times of reading the sentence trying to figure out what the hell does "tosee" mean before my brain finally caught on that you meant "to see"...lol
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vtmet Jun 21 2013 08:58 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Citi Field is about the only thing that made Pelfrey appear to be a semi-decent pitcher...he obviously isn't as fortunate to be calling Minnesota home...he probably should have chosen a place like San Diego, Seattle or Miami to continue his mirage of being a MLB caliber pitcher...
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Ceetar Jun 21 2013 09:18 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I disagree on the park factor thing, and I think he'll settle in, I think he's suffering from the missing a year thing. But they made the right call because at the time they made the decision it was unlikely he was going to pitch to start the season, and if you needed a fallback plan you might as well just pick a main plan and move on for the arb money. But i'm starting to think it's worth it to keep guys like Pelfrey and Byrdak around who seem to heal from injuries remarkably fast and at least trend towards overall health. Mets are hoping to have five starters better than Pelfrey, but for many teams an average ish pitcher like Pelfrey who you don't have to worry (well, only barely have to worry, he's still a pitcher) much about not being there is a nice thing to have.
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vtmet Jun 21 2013 10:00 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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like a lot of Mets pitchers, he had huge home/road splits... 2010-2012 (Espn does a last 3 seasons split option): home: 3.27 ERA; 13-8 record; .257 batting average against; 11 Homeruns; 231 innings; road: 5.13 ERA; 9-14 record; .310 BAA; 22 HRs; 186 innings; 2009: home: 3.72 ERA; 6-5 record; .271 BAA; 6 HRs; 104 innings; road: 6.72 ERA; 4-7 record; .310 BAA; 12 HRs; 80 innings; 2008: home (Shea): 3.02 ERA; 8-7 record; .248 BAA; 6 HRs; 119 innings; road: 4.76 ERA; .314 BAA; 6 HRs; 81 innings; this season, he's once again putting up a road BAA of .310+ (.315 to be exact)...but he's also putting up a crappy Home BAA of .326...a pitcher can't expect to survive putting up a .300+ BAA...that is well above league average...
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Frayed Knot Jun 21 2013 11:41 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Like I said, let's see Ike keep this up for a few weeks at least before we think about bringing him back up. Post-ASB should be the earliest IMO.
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Zvon Jun 21 2013 03:33 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I figure Ike has learned at least one thing. How fast he can be swept under the rug and become a thing of the past. That's baseball Ike. So get your shit together and be part of the future.
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Ashie62 Jun 21 2013 05:22 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Duda looks good at 1B
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smg58 Jun 21 2013 07:11 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?
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Swan Swan H Jun 21 2013 07:15 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I think it means that it took a shock to his system before he started to listen to anyone.
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Ceetar Jun 21 2013 07:16 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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well, there were like 45 billion people suggesting things, plus the level of competition, and park factors (Remember he was flying out to deep center quite a lot the last month or so)
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vtmet Jun 21 2013 07:33 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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IMO, it says that they are either confusing the shit out of him; or shooting him in the foot with the "work the count" approach...some guys are great at hitting behind in the count, and some guys (for example, guys with long swings) are not...Ike is not a guy that should be trying to hit 0-2, 1-2, 2-2... I would imagine that other teams do scouting reports that show that the Mets like to take a lot of pitches; and the same scouting reports probably also tell them that the guy with monster power was batting .143 with a .357 OPS on an 0-1 count & .138 with a .395 OPS after a 0-1 count... by the way...Ike is a career .300 hitter with a .700 Slugging Percentage on the first pitch of the at bat (19 Homeruns, 17 doubles and 1 triple)...
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Zvon Jun 21 2013 07:42 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Rightly I don't think they should be working out his hitch on the MLB level. I think every coach who ever saw him would want to eliminate, or tone down, the hitch. He came up hitting very well initially. That made it harder to address changes when he stopped hitting well. Keith believed that a hitch is not a bad thing, and many HOF'rs had one. But the fact is Ikes hitch was way to big and loopy.
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Frayed Knot Jun 21 2013 07:52 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Also means that AAA pitching is easier to hit than ML pitching and that Vegas is a better hitting environment than the near sea-level of NYC and many of the other NL parks. And again, let's not treat a few good games like it's a cure from Miracle Max.
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Swan Swan H Jun 21 2013 08:01 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Have fun storming the minors!
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smg58 Jun 22 2013 05:17 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Two more home runs yesterday.
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Centerfield Jun 22 2013 05:34 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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All true. But still encouraging. A few weeks ago, Ike couldn't hit a HR in a stadium on the moon.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 25 2013 09:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Another day. Another PCL homer for Ike.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 25 2013 02:29 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
51?s Ike Davis Named PCL Player of the Week
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Ashie62 Jun 25 2013 04:44 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
24 hour gambling can help a guy hit better...
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bmfc1 Jul 04 2013 07:54 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Twitter says that Ike is being recalled. No corresponding move yet. If he's coming back, he should play but the Mets have a hot hitting 1B at the moment.
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Edgy MD Jul 04 2013 08:26 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Always room for both.
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Swan Swan H Jul 05 2013 08:37 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I smell a trade. If they were sending someone down, why not just do it already?
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Edgy MD Jul 05 2013 08:40 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, who replaced Lyon?
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Swan Swan H Jul 05 2013 08:41 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Burke
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Benjamin Grimm Jul 05 2013 08:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Burke, wasn't it?
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Swan Swan H Jul 05 2013 08:45 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I could easily be overthinking this. They may just want to take a health check of the bullpen at 6 PM local time, then either remove German from the roster if he's not needed, or offload a position player.
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Ashie62 Jul 05 2013 11:21 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I wouldnt mind if Lyon went DFA..
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Ashie62 Jul 05 2013 11:25 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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oh...they did
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Ashie62 Jul 05 2013 11:26 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Satin is going to get screwed....
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Edgy MD Jul 05 2013 11:32 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Big pinky bet says Satin stays.
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 05 2013 11:34 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Everyone's favorite writer is back from vacation.
http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2013/07/05/i ... s-returns/
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Swan Swan H Jul 05 2013 12:04 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yeah, I saw his vacation pictures on Facebook:
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Edgy MD Jul 05 2013 12:05 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yeah, I was thinking what thrilling vacation that must've been.
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Edgy MD Jul 05 2013 12:46 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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On the other hand, Terry says there won't be a platoon, but Jordany has had little opportunity and littler success the last four weeks or so. April: .255 / .293 / .382 // .675 in 58 PA May: .138 / .286 / .345 // .631 in 35 PA June: .167 / .205 / .262 // .466 in 44 PA July: .000 / .000 / .000 // .000 in 4 PA (Nicholas Cage winning an Oscar. Snort! Those funny photoshops you find on the internet.)
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Ashie62 Jul 05 2013 05:08 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I would prefer Satin to continue on and start at 1B with the Mets..
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Edgy MD Jul 05 2013 07:23 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, he's continuing on.
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Swan Swan H Jul 05 2013 08:05 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
If Davey Johnson were alive today he'd start Satin at 3B and move Wright to SS when Marcum pitches (0.54 GB/FB ratio, one of the lowest in the majors.
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 06 2013 01:55 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Barbara Ludy can no longer work because of the disease The disease puts Todd Schaefer in pain every day. Mr. Schaefer, 48, has had serious heart problems, and can no longer drink the wine he and his wife, Tammy, produce. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/healt ... d=all&_r=0
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Swan Swan H Jul 07 2013 07:42 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
According to this piece in Newsday, Jeff Wiilpon visited Ike Davis in Las Vegas to give him the old hang-in-there.
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Lefty Specialist Jul 07 2013 10:26 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Wonder if Fred visited Bernie Madoff in prison and gave him a big 'hang in there', too....
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dinosaur jesus Jul 07 2013 10:52 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Here's what Ike found on his locker after the game. Never say the Wilpons don't care.
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Edgy MD Jul 07 2013 12:14 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Nice of the kitty to sign the poster.
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Zvon Jul 07 2013 02:36 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Fred and Jeffs autographs are worth shit. There. Now its worth something.
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themetfairy Jul 07 2013 02:39 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
:)
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seawolf17 Jul 07 2013 03:33 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Outstanding.
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metsguyinmichigan Jul 07 2013 04:11 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I would have signed it!
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bmfc1 Jul 07 2013 04:12 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Tremendous.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2013 08:07 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I dunno about you guys, but I felt like Ike all but earned another trip to Vegas with the ineffective bunting crap last night. Fortunately, he realized that smashing balls off the fence was more effective. Or did he?
- See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/sports/Ike_D ... vtyOS.dpuf
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Swan Swan H Jul 24 2013 08:12 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I've never really played baseball on a competitive level, but it seems to me that taking a little pepper swing and poking the ball toward third base would be easier than trying to bunt it, especially for a guy that never bunts.
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Ceetar Jul 24 2013 08:13 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
how many times do we get on guys like Carlos Delgado for not dropping down a bunt in the obvious 'free base' situations. (But Ike, practice will ya?)
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Edgy MD Jul 24 2013 08:14 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I like to think he's being flip as a way of being provocative and having fun.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2013 08:16 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
You are great with the magical thinking, Ceets. Bunting vs. the shift is great idea IF you make it. Neiuwenhuis is a great choice to hit against a lefty pitcher IF he gets on.
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Ceetar Jul 24 2013 08:18 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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If it works 4 times in 10, it's a fantastic idea. The Kirk choice was something completely different, doesn't compare.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2013 08:22 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Ike Davis isn't a .400 hitter.
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Ceetar Jul 24 2013 08:27 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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which is why if merely 4 of the bunts worked out of 10, it'd be fantastic and a probably a better option than swinging.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2013 08:30 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
/smashes head
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Vic Sage Jul 24 2013 08:31 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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he's not even a .200 hitter.
What does he mean "it's fun for them"?" Fun? FUN? FUN?FUN? Yeah, there's no part of watching Ike Davis play baseball this year that could even generously be considered "fun".
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metirish Jul 24 2013 08:33 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It might be a better option for Ike only because he's a squinty eyed useless hitter right now....I don't remember getting on Delgado for not dropping down a bunt.....I have a vague memory of him doing it once though.
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Ceetar Jul 24 2013 08:33 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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There's no evidence at all to say anything at all about it. If they're over-shifting and he can do it, then HE SHOULD DO IT. If he can't, then he shouldn't, obviously. Last night wasn't a good attempt, but the logic of his quote is sound.
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Centerfield Jul 24 2013 08:41 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
If you bunt you obviously cannot get an extra base hit, so the OBP would have to be significantly higher than a regular swing to make it a worthwhile gamble.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2013 08:47 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The attempt was pathetic. He squared so early the fielders were already in motion by the time he fouled off his first attempt.
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Centerfield Jul 24 2013 08:58 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yeah, Ike and the coaching staff have to be able to judge whether or not he can do it. Bunting back to the pitcher is suicide. He has to push it along the third base line so that it's either a hit or a foul ball.
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Vic Sage Jul 24 2013 09:03 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
while i agree with CF's post above, there are a few other factors to consider.
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Edgy MD Jul 24 2013 09:12 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Unfortunately, with all the stats available to us, we don't have any readily available data on the success rate of folks bunting for a hit, or much on the success rate of guys bunting for a sacrifice even. So the argument is largely framed for all sides within the realm of speculation.
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Ashie62 Jul 24 2013 10:15 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It may be irrelevant when Dooder takes over 1B...
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Edgy MD Jul 24 2013 10:16 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It's relevant to last night which is what we're talking about. And it's not like Duda has made a case to be a fixture either.
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metirish Aug 05 2013 06:18 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
So anyway, my sister and her husband joined us for the game yesterday....she works in the bar scene in NYC, has for many years and knows most of the owners etc. Her very good friend is a barman at a well known Irish bar in the 60's on 1st. Ike is a regular there, not long after getting called back up he was on an almighty session, Guinness and Jamenson until 5am in the morning, and it wasn't the ASG weekend.....now, maybe they were not playing on the Monday, maybe there was a lefty going so he thinks he wouldn't be playing but if you are drinking that much it's taking several days to recover....let's say Ike is very well known the pub.
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Frayed Knot Aug 05 2013 06:38 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, this isn't the first time that's been suggested.
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Ceetar Aug 05 2013 07:12 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
His numbers are certainly decent to good since his return..so Jameson on I guess. I know more and more ballplayers shift towards "body as a temple" nutrition and fitness diets, but i imagine there are sill hundreds that prefer to go out and party. (Don't bars in NYC close at 4?) Especially since they don't generally go to work until 6 hours after the rest of us.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 05 2013 07:46 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Not 4 nothin but Ike's sucked since coming back. I know he's singling in the 260s and walking his way to a decent OBP but we're also back to losing regularly with him fucking up the lineup.
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metirish Aug 05 2013 07:54 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
The law might say 4am but that never stopped an Irish pub from staying open.
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Ceetar Aug 05 2013 08:00 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
He's hitting .261/.420/.377/.797 since being recalled.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 05 2013 08:01 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I know.
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metirish Aug 05 2013 08:05 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Softest numbers ever , throw them away and look with your eye....he's useless.
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Ceetar Aug 05 2013 08:08 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
they're 14-13 since his recall. They were 12-12 without him.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 05 2013 08:09 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Stinks!
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Vic Sage Aug 05 2013 08:52 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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That's about 60 PAs, during which he's had 1 HR and 5 2B and 7 RBI. So, first of all, if this is the guy you're counting on to provided power to the middle of your lineup, you are good and truly fucked. Secondly, any projection or assessment of his future production or value based on such a limited sample size is foolish. But you did the same thing with Lagares in the other thread, where you said about his turnaround over the last month:
Too long for doubt? No, he just had an excellent July. There's PLENTY of room for doubt.
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Ceetar Aug 05 2013 09:01 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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first of all, 6 XBH is good. (projects to 60ish over a full season. That's good. And more of the doubles will shake out as HR) 7 RBI is irrelevant. The first sample is a bigger sample too, where he's been on base .420. Which is very very good. It represents not swinging at crap and getting himself out. Maintain that and he should start getting some better pitches to hit, which might the .488 SLG in the second more recent sample might represent. Yes, it's a small sample, but in the biggest sample he's shown ability and if this recent stretch is a sign he's getting back to that, it's meaningful in that regard. Not doubting Lagares is a major leaguer is a long way from believing he's the answer in CF next year.
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metirish Aug 05 2013 09:03 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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That's gold right there...another Jamenson for that man please.
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Ceetar Aug 05 2013 09:19 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Park factors, and things like if he pulls it a little more versus driving it into the gap. Where the pitch is in the strikezone when he turns on it, etc. All factors in turning doubles into home runs. (or vice versa)
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 05 2013 09:33 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
He puts the I-K-E into StInKiEst.
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batmagadanleadoff Aug 14 2013 05:37 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Believe It Or Not: Ike Davis
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... -ike-davis
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metirish Aug 14 2013 05:50 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Kind of kills the whole piece for me......
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Ceetar Aug 14 2013 06:32 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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yeah, immediately makes me dismiss the next couple of sentences. There's a lot to be said for a guy using the stance and form that feels natural to him. Just because he doesn't look like how others look (or how other players you've decided are similar look) doesn't mean it won't work. But what I wrote in the comments of that article stands: (looking now, my comment is not there. odd) Pitchers will adjust to Ike, and he'll have to make a choice of either staying with the program and waiting for his pitch (And resulting in more strikeouts) or start expanding his zone again which will lead to more flailing and more missing his pitches when he gets them in bad counts. THAT is what the Mets need to see from Ike. From the eye, he's worked a couple of 0-2 counts for walks and hits and such, instead of the insta-flail at the next pitch for an out that he did prior. If he can maintain that, even if that 0-2 pitch nips a corner or is a nasty slider on the (bigger to lefties!) just off the outside corner, then there is some hope. Davis has gone through some really really bad stretches, but he's also made adjustments that had him as an All-Star level player afterwards. Making those adjustments counts for something, and shouldn't be summarily dismissed.
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Ashie62 Aug 14 2013 06:36 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I must have missed Ike's hot streak..
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Nymr83 Aug 14 2013 07:04 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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smoke-and-mirrors streak really [url]http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/75349/believe-it-or-not-ike-davis
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 14 2013 08:08 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
That he's willing to make adjustments is good.
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Ceetar Aug 14 2013 08:32 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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or perhaps the adjustments didn't take. It's not like he wasn't trying things earlier.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 14 2013 09:52 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I don't believe the Mets can go into another season -- particularly one where they intend on contending -- hoping he doesn't doom us to irrelevancy by May again. Either he has to go, or the team needs the kind of depth to bat him 8th on opening day.
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Edgy MD Aug 15 2013 12:03 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Well, if he's productive enough going forward to seduce the Mets into returning him in 2014, maybe they open the season with a plan B firmly in place.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 15 2013 04:24 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I agree. I've been a big fan of Ike, and had high hopes for him. But enough is enough. It's time to go in another direction.
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Edgy MD Aug 15 2013 07:31 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I just like the idea of not giving Flores a position, but making him take one away from somebody. Maybe that's Ike. Maybe, indeed, that happens this year.
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dgwphotography Aug 15 2013 07:57 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I was up for a Duda/Satin platoon at first, but this works, too.
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Centerfield Aug 15 2013 11:46 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
How much money do they expect Ike to make in arbitration? Isn't it supposed to be based on how good you are? We should make the arbitrator sit through some of his May at-bats.
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Ceetar Aug 15 2013 12:01 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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who knows with arbitrators. probably not that much of a raise, and Mets tend to almost always come to terms with these guys anyway, so despite the amount of bytes going to be contributed to how much he makes, it's really not that big a worry.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 15 2013 12:16 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I can't imagine that Ike will get too big a number in arbitration. And if he did, the Mets do have the option to release him (or trade him) and not pay the money.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 15 2013 01:03 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Looking at how poorly he's done in the traditional-number categories, barring a giganto home-run/base-hit binge in the last six weeks, I can't imagine Ike would receive a raise, much less a significant raise.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 15 2013 01:08 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I wouldn't think so either, but arbitrators are notoriously unpredictable.
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Lefty Specialist Aug 15 2013 01:49 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It's pretty rare not to get a nice bump in arbitration, no matter how badly you did. He's got non-tender written all over him. Let him annoy some other hitting coach.
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smg58 Aug 15 2013 02:12 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I'd give him another year. This Mets team was doomed to irrelevancy before the season started, and they don't have another in-house option at first base with the talent to take the team out of irrelevancy next spring. He's gone several weeks with a near .500 OBP, and I see no reason to dismiss that. The power will come, because eventually pitchers will stop handing him first base and throw him more fastballs.
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Edgy MD Aug 15 2013 02:15 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
I disagree that the team was doomed to irrelevancy before the season started.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 15 2013 02:18 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yeah, if Ike Davis were Ike Davis and not some flaily, shitty, hard-drinking Ike Davis we might be relevant right now.
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batmagadanleadoff Aug 15 2013 02:21 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Then I'm guessing that you'd probably disagree with what I'm already thinking about next year's Mets.
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Frayed Knot Aug 15 2013 02:23 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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In theory, yes, but simply by moving to the arb-eligible category from the non-arb almost automatically gets a player a bump in pay. The obvious reason is because the club no longer has absolute control over salary, but also because said player is now being compared to players with similar service time who themselves have just gotten (or are about to) a bump from arbitration. IOW, a good 3rd year player (with the exception of those who have already signed L-T deals) generally makes a lot less than many sucky 4th year guys.
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Ceetar Aug 15 2013 02:27 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
what do second-arb 1Bman generally make? $5ish? Fangraphs had him at worth about $4.9 if you had to buy that via free agency last year. hell, his 36 games the year before were rated even better.
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batmagadanleadoff Aug 15 2013 02:32 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
It remains to be seen how much the Mets invest in their 2014 payroll. Ordinarily, what the current Ike Davis would likely be awarded in a salary arbitration case shouldn't burden the National League franchise from New York City, assuming the franchise wants to retain Ike. But these aren't ordinary times.
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Nymr83 Aug 20 2013 10:44 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I'm pretty sure once you go to arbitration its a guaranteed contract.
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Edgy MD Aug 21 2013 06:29 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yeah, an offer of arbitration is an offer. Accepting that offer is an agreement. That's certainly my understanding.
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Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2013 06:41 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Isn't there some rule that says that if a player is released before March 31, the team only has to pay a portion of his contract? Obviously, that doesn't apply to multi-year contacts, but I think it does apply to one-year deals.
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Ceetar Aug 21 2013 07:03 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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There's something like that. It's not the 31st though, it's closer to the 21st. I can't find the specifics in the CBA (although maybe they did get rid of it) It only applied to a specific type of player, that might've been arbitration (because these guys are still under initial contracts right?) raise guys. It also might only apply to guys that actually get arbitration, because the "agree to terms" thing most teams do to avoid arbitration might be a new contract?
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Frayed Knot Aug 21 2013 07:22 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Teams CAN walk away from arbitrated contracts if they don't like the result. The player then immediately becomes a FA.
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Ceetar Aug 21 2013 07:25 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Yeah, wasn't sure if arbitrated contracts counted as "real" contracts or not, but makes sense that they would. (for all three years? do options matter?) It's under Termination Pay in the CBA. gotta be before 16 days prior to the start of the season. If it's after that, but still spring training, they get an extra 45 days, and if the season starts, they get termination pay equal to the full year. If the guy has minor league provisions/rate in his contract and is terminated before that day, he only gets the minor league rate.
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Frayed Knot Aug 21 2013 07:34 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Termination pay and arbitration aren't the same thing.
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metirish Aug 21 2013 07:37 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
What kills me about Ike is he'll hit a bomb and I'll get to thinking wow maybe he can figure this out.....but in reality I know he likely won't...it's the hope that kills.
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Ceetar Aug 21 2013 07:45 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I think there still is..something. But I was more referencing Grimm's question. Arbitration Is decided earlier on in Spring Training.
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Frayed Knot Aug 21 2013 07:58 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Yes, that's why there's a specific window for when arb cases are decided, so that if a team wants to walk away from it the player isn't screwed trying to land another job after rosters have pretty much been set. I believe that once an arb deal is accepted by both sides it becomes guaranteed for the full amount and, even if not, just the fact that a team went to arb with a player in the first place means he's unlikely to be a guy they'd change their mind on before the season even starts.
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batmagadanleadoff Sep 09 2013 11:00 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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Do Mets still like Ike?
Pay the ESPN insider fee and you can read the rest of the article. I didn't, so I can't. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post?id=7533
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HahnSolo Sep 09 2013 11:22 AM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Brief summary from link: Rubin says team insiders are hinting that they will tender an offer to Davis. Feeling is that doing so would not be too cost prohibitive. This would still leave a trade as a viable option. Mentioned Colorado as a potential partner, as they may be looking to part ways with Todd Helton.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 09 2013 12:50 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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In exchange for what-- paying his salary and listening to their snickers?
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HahnSolo Sep 09 2013 12:54 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
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I didnt take it that they would be looking to move Ike for Helton...just that Helton may be gone and they need someone to replace him. Or more likely, Rubin or his source is just making crap up.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 09 2013 12:58 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Ah, yes. This reading comprehension thing, it sometimes eludes me.
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Ashie62 Sep 09 2013 01:28 PM Re: Hot Seat Ike |
Simply put...tender Davis and either keep or trade him.
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