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Hot Seat Ike

batmagadanleadoff
May 02 2013 08:19 AM

How much longer can the Mets afford to play Ike Davis?

By Rob Castellano on May 1 2013, 9:21p


The struggling first baseman has been an albatross around the neck of an already struggling lineup.

Remember those salad days of two weeks ago? Back when the Mets were riding high a couple games over .500, leading the major leagues in runs per game, John Buck was hitting about a homer a day, and the only issue with the lineup was that it was actually scoring too many runs to give Bobby Parnell a chance to do his thing. It truly was a golden age.

In fact, it was so good that it allowed us to overlook the play of one Ike Davis. Once again, Ike is off to a woefully poor start in 2013 (.165/.265/.318), contributing very little positive value to the Mets lineup. But that didn't matter; the Mets were scoring -- despite Davis -- so all was forgiven. Commentators preached patience with regard to the lumbering lefty -- he did hit 20 home runs in the second half of 2012, after all.

It's fair to say that this has been the general sentiment around Davis thus far in 2013; that he's provided decent cause for us to believe that he'll put up the power numbers we expect from him -- even if the shape of the campaign is a little more one-sided than we would like. As Ike himself stated, "I’m on pace to do in home runs what I did last year, and eventually I’ll be a better actual hitter instead of just hitting the occasional home run."

But there's a problem with that logic: Carrying Davis until the bat became effective in 2012 was far easier than it will conceivably be this season. Why? No, don't look at the lineup around him; while some of the names and faces have changed, it's still too early to confidently state that either version was or is superior.

The answer lies with Davis himself. While we all remember that Ike was awful until around the All Star Break in 2012, what many forget is that while he was being awful he was also getting extraordinarily lucky. What am I referring to? For perhaps the first time in AA history, it's all about the RBIs.

Starting to remember? Remember how odd it was that despite the fact that Davis seemingly went a week between hits throughout the first half of 2012, each one seemed to plate a runner or two? Remember how weird it was when the first half gave way to the All Star Break and he actually ranked among the league leaders in RBIs, yet had fewer hits than any qualified batter? So weird was it that at the time I actually put together an infographic emphasizing that fact (click image to embiggen):



One half of that diagram remains true this season: Ike currently ranks 216th in the majors in hits. Except this time around, instead of a .907 RBI per hit rate, he's currently driving in .571 runs per hit. (For those who prefer the glass half full, Ike had the same amount of RBIs through 24 games last season as he does now; but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for lightning to strike twice.)

Now I am not advocating for any drastic decisions to be made about Davis in the immediate future. In fact, just over a week ago I professed that we shouldn't lose faith in Ike over his propensity for slow starts. I will, however, point out that even with the RBI Fairy on his side, Davis narrowly escaped a trip to Buffalo in 2012. By early June the grape vine was abuzz with a potential demotion, even as his RBI count soared. So the question is, what happens if -- in addition to not hitting -- Davis is also not driving in runs?


http://www.amazinavenue.com/2013/5/1/42 ... -ike-davis

metirish
May 02 2013 08:47 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

In fact, it was so good that it allowed us to overlook the play of one Ike Davis.



I think the forum here didn't overlook how awful a start he has had.....the booth had a n interesting in game chat with the hitting coach I think last week.....Keith was asking great questions and making great observations , the coach was too....my take away was that Ike is not that good at taking instructions...

seawolf17
May 02 2013 09:50 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

You have to let him work it out. He has no trade value right now, and he's not going to get any better in Las Vegas or Binghamton. You need him to get through it.

Ceetar
May 02 2013 10:18 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Discussed this some on this week's Amazin' Avenue Audio Podcast

i.e. it's infuriating, but I'm not sure Josh Satin is the answer and I wouldn't put anyone else there at this point. I believe he WILL figure it out. We also mentioned how he's about to get pretty expensive after this season, and if he's going to slump like this it might not be worth paying him.

A Boy Named Seo
May 02 2013 10:48 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ike's got plenty of flaws, but he's still one of our better flawed guys. The Nats are still running out Adam LaRoche. The Braves, BJ Upton. Guys get off to extended, shitty starts sometimes. What are the Mets gonna turn it over to Josh Satin?

Ike'll turn it around at some point, and when he does, the Team will have to figure out whether they can, or are willing to risk dealing with this crap again next year.

Zvon
May 02 2013 02:36 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I'm not against him being sent down to the minors like I was last season. Maybe he needs that type of a wake up call.

Swan Swan H
May 09 2013 09:00 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

When Davis came up for his last AB last night he was blinking his eyes to the point where it was making me nervous. Blinking and opening them up wide in that 'who, me, I'm not tired' move. Makes me wonder if there's not something there that's bothering him.

Edgy MD
May 09 2013 09:08 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The distressing thing to me is that he publicly denied to the moon and back that he was feeling any effects of his condition last year.

Then he arrives at Spring Training this year announcing that he feels like a million bucks, which is great, because he could really feel the effects of Valley Fever last year, particularly in the beginning of the year in the colder weather.

That's, um, great. I get that you wanted to man up last year and grind through shit and not make excuses. But what do we do with that now? On one hand, you want us to know you feel better, and on the other, you want us to know that we can't believe what you're saying with regard to the issue.

Ike would make a lousy boyfriend. He just would.

Ceetar
May 09 2013 09:12 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Swan Swan H wrote:
When Davis came up for his last AB last night he was blinking his eyes to the point where it was making me nervous. Blinking and opening them up wide in that 'who, me, I'm not tired' move. Makes me wonder if there's not something there that's bothering him.


too late for excuses. He floated the "ankle weakness and valley fever tiredness" in Spring Training as an excuse for last year, but it doesn't matter. He's gotta fight through that stuff.

I wonder how players treat and respect rest. They have such wild schedules, and I always marvel at the affect being fully rested, or at least 'not tired' has on my mental capabilities so I can't imagine it'd be different for baseball players. Their brains do crazy things like recognize pitch break and trajectory subconsciously and I can't imagine that wouldn't be sharper with a fresh mind.

In any case, no excuse Ike. Figure out how to be consistent.

Edgy MD
May 09 2013 09:26 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Us analyzing what's wrong with him, and him making excuses is not the same thing.

The "no excuses" cliche is tired, macho, and counter-productive. Firstly, he didn't make one. Secondly if he's got a health issue that he doesn't report to the team, he's hurting the team.

It's such a Catch-22.

[list]1. We expect players to play through all ailments or else we will see them as soft and womenly. Girlish, even.

2. We expect them not to even mention if they have ailments or else we will see them as soft and womenly. Girlish, even.

3. If they do this, and a coach expereses that, while he appreciates his player being tough, but it would be more helpful to the team if he had been truthful, that coach should be shamed.[/list:u]

We demand the truth, and hate them for telling it.

Swan Swan H
May 09 2013 09:33 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ceetar wrote:
Swan Swan H wrote:
When Davis came up for his last AB last night he was blinking his eyes to the point where it was making me nervous. Blinking and opening them up wide in that 'who, me, I'm not tired' move. Makes me wonder if there's not something there that's bothering him.


too late for excuses. He floated the "ankle weakness and valley fever tiredness" in Spring Training as an excuse for last year, but it doesn't matter. He's gotta fight through that stuff.

I wonder how players treat and respect rest. They have such wild schedules, and I always marvel at the affect being fully rested, or at least 'not tired' has on my mental capabilities so I can't imagine it'd be different for baseball players. Their brains do crazy things like recognize pitch break and trajectory subconsciously and I can't imagine that wouldn't be sharper with a fresh mind.

In any case, no excuse Ike. Figure out how to be consistent.


Maybe it's allergies. Maybe it's a mild eye infection or conjunctivitis or restasis (thank you, Janine Turner). All I know is that to my untrained eye he looked like a guy who would have trouble following a major league pitcher.

G-Fafif
May 09 2013 10:39 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I thought this was a thread about Ike's sweet, sweet ass.

Swan Swan H
May 09 2013 11:23 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

G-Fafif wrote:
I thought this was a thread about Ike's sweet, sweet ass.


Maybe it's hemorrhoids. Maybe it's dingleberry buildup.....

G-Fafif
May 09 2013 11:30 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Swan Swan H wrote:
G-Fafif wrote:
I thought this was a thread about Ike's sweet, sweet ass.


Maybe it's hemorrhoids.


When Ike asked Mr. Roarke to make him the kind of player George Brett was, he had no idea how it would backfire. (And the backfire is the worst part.)

Benjamin Grimm
May 13 2013 07:23 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

NPR had a report on Valley Fever this morning on Morning Edition.

I don't know how much relevance it has to Ike Davis (was he ever even officially diagnosed), but it was potentially very discouraging.

The anti-fungal medication can keep the growth of the fungus in check, but it never eliminates it.

Ceetar
May 13 2013 07:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
NPR had a report on Valley Fever this morning on Morning Edition.

I don't know how much relevance it has to Ike Davis (was he ever even officially diagnosed), but it was potentially very discouraging.

The anti-fungal medication can keep the growth of the fungus in check, but it never eliminates it.


I keep pondering the 'ever officially diagnosed' thing, and I can't find any indication of it. It surprises me what things the media chooses to dig up, and what they don't follow up on. Davis himself seemed to confirm it this Spring when he mentioned how he felt last year, but I sorta assumed that was a "best shape of his life" quote.

I'm pretty sure he was never on medication though, I thought the initial report that he may have had it indicated he wouldn't need medication and had no symptoms.

Either way, I really have no idea what to say about Davis. Valley Fever recurrence? Bad mechanics? Bad attitude? Drinks too much? Burr in his saddle? Possessed by Aliens? I'm as convinced he'll start a tear tomorrow as that he needs to go down to Vegas to 'work on some things'. (And clearly, if anyone else KNEW The answer, they'd have done it already)

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 13 2013 07:45 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Valley Fever is real and not something the beat writers made up.

Conor Jackson was never the same. He officially retired this spring at age 30 after a few games with Tidewater.

Ceetar
May 13 2013 07:51 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Valley Fever is real and not something the beat writers made up.

Conor Jackson was never the same. He officially retired this spring at age 30 after a few games with Tidewater.


Yes, but his ACTUAL diagnosis was never confirmed at the time, and the beat writers never bothered to follow up on it. They were waiting another test or the doctors to look at the MRI or somesuch, or maybe the Mets/Davis never followed up. The initial report was that he had symptoms that indicated he might have Valley Fever.

Jackson also isn't Davis, and had developed symptoms that Davis reportedly never had.

vtmet
May 13 2013 07:57 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I wonder if Ike's just too much of a warm weather dude...He's from Arizona, so most of his pre-Mets playing was done in a hot climate (little league, high school, college)...

Last Spring Training, he had 4 HRs and 13 RBI (led/tied the team lead);
This Spring Training, he batted .327 and had as many walks as strikeouts;

Last April/May were horrible, and then the HRs started to fly in June;

His BABip is always going to be bad because he's a slow, lefty severe pull hitter so he's always got that severe shift against him and he's never going to beat out many infield hits (although, I was at a Tampa Bay Rays game last season that Ike bunted the ball down the 3B line because of the shift and he got an infield hit on that, and then later had a 3 Run HR against a LHP in the same game)...

metirish
May 13 2013 08:02 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Regarding the diagnosis or not, from 2012

Doctors decided to send Davis to New York for additional tests after reviewing an X-ray of his lungs during a routine camp physical. However, Davis says that subsequent blood work didn't positively identify the disease.

Doctors told Davis his blood tests did not positively identify valley fever because he has either unknowingly had the disease for a while and it mostly has worked itself out of his system, or because the disease has yet to fully manifest itself.


http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_ ... r-symptoms


Whatever he had or has one thing that has not changed is how horribly fooled he looks at times waving at pitches.

MFS62
May 13 2013 08:24 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Wilmer Flores started at first base last night for Las Vegas.

Later

Edgy MD
May 13 2013 09:10 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

As noted above, he's already admitted that he was symtomatic through a large chunk of last year, putting whatever he says this year about he issue in doubt.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 13 2013 09:15 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

MFS62 wrote:
Wilmer Flores started at first base last night for Las Vegas.

Later


Interesting, maybe? I thought LV already had 2 RHH first basemen in Campbell and Satin.

batmagadanleadoff
May 13 2013 09:22 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike




Ike's tailspin could force Mets to drop him to Triple-A
By KEVIN KERNAN
Last Updated: 10:28 AM, May 13, 2013
Posted: 12:57 AM, May 13, 2013



Y-IKE-S! First baseman Ike Davis, hitless in four
at-bats yesterday, flips his bat after striking out
in the third inning.

The Mets cannot afford to waste Matt Harvey’s starts. They cannot afford to have Davis continue to strike out in crucial situations.

Manager Terry Collins is counting on Davis to drive in runs, and he put the first baseman back into the fourth spot yesterday. The clock is ticking. If the lefty doesn’t hit, he could be sent down to the minors.

Such a move might be just what Davis needs to get his swing together.

Davis hit rock bottom yesterday when he struck out with runners on first and third with one out in the eighth inning of the Mets’ 3-2 loss to the Pirates at Citi Field.

He was fooled badly on a curveball in the dirt by ex-Yankee Mark Melancon. As Davis tossed his pink Mother’s Day bat aside, boos from the crowd of 28,404 cascaded onto the field.

“I definitely let the team down,’’ said a somber Davis, whose mind is spinning as much as his wild swing. “I have to produce more or I won’t play on this level.’’

If Davis had come through with a hit in that situation or even a sacrifice fly, the Mets could have made the most of Harvey’s solid start.

“I need to stop pressing with two strikes,’’ Davis admitted. “I’m telling myself to be shorter and quicker to the ball and see it, but then I’m just not focusing on the ball and I’m swinging at pitches in the dirt that normally I don’t do. Hopefully I can make that adjustment next game and start the rest of the season not doing that.’’

The Mets know they can’t wait too much longer on Davis. They could move Lucas Duda to first base. Yesterday they had Wilmer Flores playing first in Las Vegas.

Davis does not see a minor league demotion just yet.

“I wouldn’t think they would, just because last year when I started playing well I actually contributed and became a big factor in the games,” he said. “I still got time.’’

Davis hit 32 home runs last year. If he continues to struggle on a trip that takes the Mets to St. Louis and Chicago, management might not be so patient. Davis is hitting .129 with runners in scoring position.

The Mets have lost 11 of 15. Davis is hitting .180 with just nine RBIs. He was 0-for-4 yesterday with two strikeouts. He has 39 strikeouts on the year and only 20 hits.

Yikes, Ike.

Here is the worst of it for the Mets. Harvey received his fourth straight no-decision, despite a 1.98 ERA over that span.

“This is way worse, personally,’’ Davis said of this year’s slump. “When I wasn’t doing well and we were winning last year, they were picking me up and that kind of made it a little easier.’’

No one is picking anyone up as the Mets continue to strike out in ridiculous numbers. They suffered 16 strikeouts in Saturday’s loss and another 12 yesterday.

“Ike is going to have to reach down inside and grind out at-bats,’’ Collins said. “I asked if he was up to it, and he said, ‘Absolutely, sign me up.’ It was tough for him today. I know that was a disappointing at-bat for him.’’

One major league executive said he believes if Davis can get his act together, he will be similar to Baltimore’s Chris Davis, who is having a terrific season.

“That’s who Ike reminds me of,’’ the executive told The Post.

To hit like Chris Davis, though, Ike Davis must shorten his swing and focus on hitting the ball up the middle and the other way.

“That is the adjustment he has to make,’’ the executive said.

“I don’t like doing horrible at my job,’’ Davis said.

All bets are off and Las Vegas is in Ike’s future if he doesn’t start hitting.


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/ike ... NuUDdo27FM

Edgy MD
May 13 2013 09:30 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Interesting, maybe? I thought LV already had 2 RHH first basemen in Campbell and Satin.

Well, Campbell and Satin, like Flores as well, aren't so much firstbasemen as guys from elsewhere around the diamond who can hit pretty good compared to those guys at other positions, but aren't very good at playing them defensively. So getting Flores time at first and moving Satin to second is probably a pretty lateral move overall.

Ceetar
May 13 2013 09:38 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I know people have floated the Duda to first idea, but I like the Satin/Campbell/Flores solution better than that at least. With first at least you can theoretically find someone to hit a little, if you move Duda you're in essence replacing Ike with the..7th?..outfielder on the depth chart.

Swan Swan H
May 13 2013 09:44 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ceetar wrote:
I know people have floated the Duda to first idea, but I like the Satin/Campbell/Flores solution better than that at least. With first at least you can theoretically find someone to hit a little, if you move Duda you're in essence replacing Ike with the..7th?..outfielder on the depth chart.


But you're also gaining the defense that you get in replacing Lurch out in left. Duda's stats at first, admittedly in a small sample size, are about average. I also think Duda might be more comfortable at first and maybe he'd relax a bit not worrying about playing out of position.

Edgy MD
May 13 2013 09:46 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

There's that.

In the short term, it's hard to project Satin or Flores (or Campbell) being more productive than Turner has been. They might provide more power and less OBP, and possibly have better long-range prospects, but in general, if they called up one of those guys today and sent down one of their outfielders (or jettisoned Byrd) they probably would be in the same situation tomorrow.

Frayed Knot
May 13 2013 10:19 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The other problem with Duda to 1B is that he's the only regular in the OF right now so pulling him out would create even more of a Chinese Fire Drill out there. And then of course he'd theoretically be moved back when/if Ike straightened himself out and be a month or two rustier at playing a position he's already not good at.

I was all for demoting Davis last year but find myself less for it now I think because of all the OF/1B uncertainty.
A few more days of this though will start me trending in that direction.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 13 2013 10:24 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I'm just afraid this stuff with Davis is here to stay. These terrible starts 2 years straight, following that frustrating ankle year, he's just not reliable enough to hit 4th everyday. The Mets need to start planning a way to not have to rely on this guy, then maybe he'll surprise.

Edgy MD
May 13 2013 10:35 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, last night, in my head, I was Terry ripping apart the team before today's game. I was all, "Lucas? Where the fuck is Lucas? Lucas, you're our fourth-place hitter ever night for the next month. No exceptions. No days off. It's your job. Your team needs you. NOW GET OUT OF ON THE FIELD!"

Ike? Stand up, Ike! It's your job to make me sorry I ever said that. Every day for the next 30 days I want you to punish me for that decision. NOW GET OUT ON THE FIELD!"

vtmet
May 13 2013 12:10 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
MFS62 wrote:
Wilmer Flores started at first base last night for Las Vegas.

Later


Interesting, maybe? I thought LV already had 2 RHH first basemen in Campbell and Satin.


maybe they want to try one that has a chance of successfully hitting MLB pitching...Plus, there aren't a lot of placed that Flores could successfully play at the MLB level...he's supposedly not agile enough for middle infield; 3B is blocked for a long time; and he's supposedly too slow to play the OF (yet, somehow they believe that Duda/Byrd are not)...

vtmet
May 13 2013 12:12 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
The other problem with Duda to 1B is that he's the only regular in the OF right now so pulling him out would create even more of a Chinese Fire Drill out there. ....


Terry COllins loved Chinese Fire Drills...

Zvon
May 13 2013 01:16 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I think the only way Duda gets moved to first is if we move Ike and then Duda plays first all the time. I'm not saying I want that. No way. I know that I don't want Duda being bounced around position wise mid season. Ike is our first baseman until he isn't. If we send him down for a spell, plenty of players can fill that spot as opposed to unsettling Duds again.

Benjamin Grimm
May 13 2013 01:39 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Zvon wrote:
If we send him down for a spell, plenty of players can fill that spot as opposed to unsettling Duds again.


I don't know about "plenty", but I tend to agree that it would be better not to move Duda, or Murphy for that matter, to first base as a temporary measure.

I would guess that the choices for an alternative to Davis are Turner, Campbell, or Satin. The time may very well come when one of them will get a shot. Davis may or may not snap out of this and become the long-term answer that we'd all like him to be, but it may soon be time to start working on Plan B. For the moment, the options are all internal.

Edgy MD
May 13 2013 01:43 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I love players moved around. I think all good teams have versatile guys who get moved around. It's a good reminder to them and to everybody that their job is to hit and if they do that, the manager will find room for them.

Murphy sure hasn't had a problem moving from second to third or second to first in the past.

Swan Swan H
May 16 2013 03:01 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The Sound of Whiffing

He used to show some promise but it all seems to be gone
He strikes out with the bases juiced and whiffs when no one's on
And in the field he's shaky and exhibits no elan
He isn't doing much to help the ballclub

They put him in the four hole then they drop him down to six
They kind of hoped that he'd respond to some of Terry's tricks
I hate to have to say it but he's put us in a fix
Now Ike is not an asset to the ballclub

I'd like to say a word in his behalf
Then say it Mr. Pitcher
Ike Davis makes me laugh

How do you solve a problem like Ike Davis?
When each of his at bats ends with a frown?
So do you solve a problem like Ike Davis?
Or do you suck it up and send him down?

Zvon
May 16 2013 03:21 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

After that one at bat today, 3 curves, 3 horrible swing and misses, I'm officially worried about Ike. He stared down the pitcher as if to say :How dare you do that to me? Go look in the mirror Ike. That's who you should be concerned for. That's who is hurting you the most. While you're there, practice and visualize your swing.

oe: work on making sure your hips lead your hands, and stay back longer. Your hips are leading too early. Let the pitch come to you.

Edgy MD
May 16 2013 04:48 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Collins committed to batting Ike fourth through the weekend, or at least until the Mets face lefty Travis Wood on Sunday.

Ashie62
May 16 2013 06:35 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

If Ike gets expensive after this season just ride the year out with him and move on..

Next!

Zvon
May 18 2013 01:00 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike



This pic illustrates whats wrong with Ikes swing nicely.

Swan Swan H
May 18 2013 01:40 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Daric Barton DFAed, eh? If they could get him for a reasonable package I'd put him in Las Vegas for two weeks and see what he's got.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 18 2013 01:47 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yup, time to do it.

Edgy MD
May 18 2013 03:21 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Alderson and Davis meet today, as per the Rube, and both came away claiming that Alderson indicated that a demotion was not imminent.

Alderson, asked if Davis had a “significant amount of leeway or this is going to come to a head,” told ESPNNewYork.com: “Everything comes to a head at some point.”


I'd totally give that answer. People would hate me if I was GM.

Ashie62
May 18 2013 04:58 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It would read well on a fortune cookie...

Frayed Knot
May 20 2013 10:43 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Swan Swan H wrote:
Daric Barton DFAed, eh? If they could get him for a reasonable package I'd put him in Las Vegas for two weeks and see what he's got.


He was a big time bat prospect after being drafted in the 1st round by the Cards, but that was back in 2003; turns 28 in August. Hits lefty too so it wouldn't be practical to think of him in a platoon with Ike.
Also not a lot to feel good about concerning his last three seasons with Oakland [.205/.323/.276] except for his ability to draw walks.

Frayed Knot
May 21 2013 06:46 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
Hits lefty too so it wouldn't be practical to think of him in a platoon with Ike.


Aww the hell with that thinking, we should specifically look for a lefty bat to play 1B so he can be platooned with Turner.
Between his 1-fer-30s, diminished defense*, and his sleep-standing on 1st base, Ike is bringing nothing to the table at this point.






* it might be too harsh to say that it's costing the team runs but it is noticeably sloppier

Benjamin Grimm
May 21 2013 06:59 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yes, I think it's time we accept that Ike Davis isn't likely to be the player we expected or hoped he would be. It's unfortunate, and sad, but even if Ike suddenly snaps out of it like he did last year, will we have any confidence that he won't go oh-for-April-and-May again in 2014? If this team is to become a contender, they'll need someone a lot more reliable than Ike has become.

I don't know if it's the ankle, the Valley Fever, a combination of the two, or something else entirely, but it's become very hard to see Ike as part of the solution.

Edgy MD
May 21 2013 07:09 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

And it's become very hard to give him the reps that he'll need to get out of it during major league games.

Edgy MD
May 22 2013 07:54 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Crazy thought, but how about calling up Alan Dykstra and his .436 OBP from AA?

He's clearly considered a non-prospect as he's 26 and spending his third straight season in AA, and we probably need somebody who can give us extra-base hits more than somebody who gets on base, but... he really gets on base.

MFS62
May 22 2013 08:52 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

(tongue only partially in cheek)
When Ike was in college, he also pitched. IIRC, he could throw 93-94 MPH.
If the can't correct his swing, why not try a reverse-Ankiel and put him back on the mound?
He couldn't be any worse than Robert Carson, right?

Later

Benjamin Grimm
May 22 2013 08:54 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It had gone away for a while, but the "he can't be any worse than what we already have" meme has been recently making a comeback.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 22 2013 09:36 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:
Crazy thought, but how about calling up Alan Dykstra and his .436 OBP from AA?

He's clearly considered a non-prospect as he's 26 and spending his third straight season in AA, and we probably need somebody who can give us extra-base hits more than somebody who gets on base, but... he really gets on base.


He's like Daric Barton-- right down to the first-round pedigree-- only he's ours.

Why not find out what we have-- it's that kind of a year, right?

Edgy MD
May 22 2013 09:53 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

At least give him some Vegas time. They've been rotating infielders from other positions over to first for two months now.

Unlike Barton, he hasn't yet been promoted to a level he couldn't hang at, but yeah, nice analog.

OE: They both even bat left and throw right.

Benjamin Grimm
May 22 2013 12:27 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ike last year after 43 games: .156/.212/.291, 5 homers, 15 rbi.

This year after 43 games: .149/.229/.248, 4 homers, 9 rbi.

As absolutely horrendous as he was last year, this year he's even worse. And even if he does rebound like he did last year, are we going to have any faith at all in him going into 2014, even if he says that he feels great?

I'm totally on board with trying someone else.

Vic Sage
May 22 2013 02:14 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Argh. eNUFF with this guy!
NEXT!

Edgy MD
May 22 2013 02:25 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I think it's better than even money that he goes down before the sun does.

Chad Ochoseis
May 22 2013 02:31 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I was about as hard core "keep Ike in the majors" as they come. But it's time, Ike. If it's any consolation, I think tickets are still available to Penn & Teller at Rio this weekend.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 22 2013 02:35 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Residency at Caesar's Palace did good for Rod Stewart's career.

Vic Sage
May 22 2013 02:44 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

he can go fuck a white tiger for all i care (though that might make Siegfried jealous).
just get him out of town.

Ceetar
May 22 2013 03:12 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I get wanting to wish him out of town. I'd still play him but I'd be willing to give those other guys (not Valdespin, Turner) chances too. I'd go with whatever the best chance to win is, as always.

But the real important question is why. Even if you don't have a fix, why clears up so much. You'd at least be able to guess if you can fix it or not, if he'll bounce back or not. It allows you to plan. But I'd be as little surprised if he goes 0 for the next 30 as if he goes 15 for the next 30 with 6HR. It's one thing to wish him away to 'work on his swing' but you actually need to know what to work on. (i.e. try to make moves that inflect positive change more than eliminating negative. Release a guy to give someone else a chance. Platoon a guy to try out his partner, not to cut AB for one guy)

Does anyone remember something specific that happened last year? Was there any real point we can say "oh, that's what worked?" report of a swing change, energy level, new girlfriend? If I recall he got very feast or famine for a while in June where he was productive but striking out a bazillion times, and then he cut down the strikeouts as well and kept getting on base and mashing.

Vic Sage
May 22 2013 03:16 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

1bmen in system:

AAA - E.Campbell (RH/26), J.Satin (RH/28)
AA - A.Dykstra (LH/26)
A - J.Boyd (RH/22)

All of these guys are hitting well right now. Campbell has hit well 3 of the past 4 years.

metirish
May 22 2013 04:48 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ceetar wrote:
I get wanting to wish him out of town. I'd still play him but I'd be willing to give those other guys (not Valdespin, Turner) chances too. I'd go with whatever the best chance to win is, as always.

But the real important question is why. Even if you don't have a fix, why clears up so much. You'd at least be able to guess if you can fix it or not, if he'll bounce back or not. It allows you to plan. But I'd be as little surprised if he goes 0 for the next 30 as if he goes 15 for the next 30 with 6HR. It's one thing to wish him away to 'work on his swing' but you actually need to know what to work on. (i.e. try to make moves that inflect positive change more than eliminating negative. Release a guy to give someone else a chance. Platoon a guy to try out his partner, not to cut AB for one guy)

Does anyone remember something specific that happened last year? Was there any real point we can say "oh, that's what worked?" report of a swing change, energy level, new girlfriend? If I recall he got very feast or famine for a while in June where he was productive but striking out a bazillion times, and then he cut down the strikeouts as well and kept getting on base and mashing.




Keith talks about how Ike gets into a wide stance when going bad, like now.....the hitting coach agrees, if I remember correctly in one in game conversation the hitting coach said something to the effect that Ike can be stubborn(didn't use that word I think) and knows he shouldn't go wide but still does........

G-Fafif
May 22 2013 05:16 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Arizona-raised Ike explains why he's so durn stupid.

Ike Davis, who allowed Brandon Phillips' tiebreaking double to bounce past him at first base in the ninth inning Wednesday, calmly explained his reasoning after the 7-4 loss to the Cincinnati Reds:

Davis said, at least in his mind, he saw the one-out grounder with runners on the corners bounce foul the hop before it got to him. It was close, though. And he figured with the spin off a righty's bat, it would kick further into foul territory and be clearer for ump Phil Cuzzi if he let the ball go.

Obviously, that turned out to be the incorrect decision, because Cuzzi ruled it fair.

Davis said he subsequently watched replays multiple times and could not discern whether the ball was fair or foul.

He noted Shin-Soo Choo would have scored from third base with the go-ahead run anyway had he fielded the ball because it was hit too slowly for a play at the plate. For that same reason, Davis said a 3-6-3 double play that would have negated the run was impossible as well because of how slowly the ball was hit.

Davis suggested his only option would have been to get the force out at first base and then attempt to get Joey Votto headed for second. But Votto then would not have been forced. So Choo would have scored anyway, Davis noted.

"I couldn't get the guy at home," Davis said. "Choo runs really fast. And it was really slow to my backhand side. I was trying to get off the bag to get in the hole because it was a right-handed hitter. They usually don't hit it down the line like that. The second bounce ... I thought it bounced foul. In my head, I can't turn two. I can't catch it, touch the bag and then throw it to second and get the guy out, because then it's a tag play and the guy [Choo] scores anyway. So, in my head, when I thought I saw it bounce foul, I pulled my glove back, because then we'd be 0-2 on Phillips [if it were foul] and the run wouldn't score. That was my thought process on that. I still can't tell if it was foul or fair on replays. But I definitely did think it bounced foul right before I got it. He made the call fair.

"Everything that can go wrong for me right now is going wrong."


The dog ate his glove, in other words.

If he's still here by Friday, then the complacency is galling.

Ceetar
May 22 2013 08:01 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

That seems an extremely well thought out response in my eyes..

dinosaur jesus
May 22 2013 08:04 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ike Davis is going to kick around three or four organizations in the next three or four years, getting signed and dropped and mostly sitting on the bench. Then in 2018 he's going to land in Oakland and hit fifty home runs. And we're all going to hate him even more than we do right now.

The thing is, I really like Ike Davis. I still picture big things every time he comes up to the plate, and my first impulse is to defend him when everybody says these terrible things about him. I haven't even dropped him from my fantasy teams, though at least I have enough sense not to play him. But Jesus, he's terrible right now. He's about the terribilist hitter I've ever seen.

Edgy MD
May 22 2013 08:19 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It ain't personal if they play somebody else. Just weighing different concerns against different options and making the most responsible strategic deployment that they can.

Zvon
May 22 2013 09:36 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Arizona-raised Ike explains why he's so durn stupid.

Ike Davis, who allowed Brandon Phillips' tiebreaking double to bounce past him at first base in the ninth inning Wednesday, calmly explained his reasoning after the 7-4 loss to the Cincinnati Reds:

Davis said, at least in his mind, he saw the one-out grounder with runners on the corners bounce foul the hop before it got to him. It was close, though. And he figured with the spin off a righty's bat, it would kick further into foul territory and be clearer for ump Phil Cuzzi if he let the ball go.

Obviously, that turned out to be the incorrect decision, because Cuzzi ruled it fair.

Davis said he subsequently watched replays multiple times and could not discern whether the ball was fair or foul.

He noted Shin-Soo Choo would have scored from third base with the go-ahead run anyway had he fielded the ball because it was hit too slowly for a play at the plate. For that same reason, Davis said a 3-6-3 double play that would have negated the run was impossible as well because of how slowly the ball was hit.

Davis suggested his only option would have been to get the force out at first base and then attempt to get Joey Votto headed for second. But Votto then would not have been forced. So Choo would have scored anyway, Davis noted.

"I couldn't get the guy at home," Davis said. "Choo runs really fast. And it was really slow to my backhand side. I was trying to get off the bag to get in the hole because it was a right-handed hitter. They usually don't hit it down the line like that. The second bounce ... I thought it bounced foul. In my head, I can't turn two. I can't catch it, touch the bag and then throw it to second and get the guy out, because then it's a tag play and the guy [Choo] scores anyway. So, in my head, when I thought I saw it bounce foul, I pulled my glove back, because then we'd be 0-2 on Phillips [if it were foul] and the run wouldn't score. That was my thought process on that. I still can't tell if it was foul or fair on replays. But I definitely did think it bounced foul right before I got it. He made the call fair.

"Everything that can go wrong for me right now is going wrong."


The dog ate his glove, in other words.

If he's still here by Friday, then the complacency is galling.

It does look like a well thought out response but unfortunately its based on the assumption that there wasn't another option. Like a recent similar play, if he aggressively charged the ball in, if he played it as Kieth would have (no one will ever be Mex but we all know Davis can be great fielder), he had a chance and that run was big. Also, getting the sure out should have been a priority as soon as he decided not to charge and waited for it. Anything more than that is over thinking.

I love Davis too, and I want so much for him to succeed. But right now his head is no longer completely into whats happening at the moment, and what has become a rally point for the media is becoming a distraction to the entire team. I strongly feel he should not be a starting player for the big club until further notice. The minors is the logical move if they want him to continue getting regular at bats as he works this out. Carrying a non hitting Ike is one thing. Carrying an Ike that isn't hitting or fielding his position,....what's the point?

Benjamin Grimm
May 23 2013 06:06 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Looks like he'll still be with the Mets at least through the weekend.

Edgy MD
May 23 2013 06:30 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The Keith standard is indeed the gold one. But his aggressive charging is mostly associated with bunt plays where he had an idea where the ball was to be hit before the pitch was released. Not a great analogy.

I'd prefer his fate be sealed not by his inability to play impeccable defense, but by his failure to provide a meaningful degree of offense to obviate the need for such.

Ceetar
May 23 2013 07:08 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:

I'd prefer his fate be sealed not by his inability to play impeccable defense, but by his failure to provide a meaningful degree of offense to obviate the need for such.


indeed. I'm okay with our first basemen, even in perpetuity, not being up to Keith's standards.

I'm also okay with winning not quite 1 billion dollars, in case you were curious.

MFS62
May 23 2013 07:24 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Through all this , has anyone mentioned giving him an eye test?
Maybe he isn't picking up the spin on the breaking ball as well as in the past.

Later

metirish
May 23 2013 07:27 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

MFS62 wrote:
Through all this , has anyone mentioned giving him an eye test?
Maybe he isn't picking up the spin on the breaking ball as well as in the past.

Later




I am sure it's part of routine yearly physicals?

What about an IQ test?

Lefty Specialist
May 23 2013 07:38 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, he'll have to change planes in Charlotte, but they'd better hurry- there's only 1 seat left at this price.


$424 US Airways
LGA 2:40p
LAS 7:40p
8h 00m
1 stop (CLT)
Only 1 seat left at this price

Depart
Fri, May 24 LGA to LAS – 1 stop 8h 00m

US Airways – Flight 1505 2h 02m
Take-off Fri 2:40p LGA New York, NY
Landing Fri 4:42p CLT Charlotte, NC
Coach | Fare code: VXA0NJ2P | Airbus A321-100/200 (Narrow-body Jet) | 2h 02m | 94% on time | 543 miles | WiFi Available | 1 seats remain
Change planes
CLT Charlotte, NC
1h 26m
US Airways – Flight 381 4h 32m
Take-off Fri 6:08p CLT Charlotte, NC
Landing Fri 7:40p LAS Las Vegas, NV
Coach | Fare code: VXA0NJ2P | Airbus A321-100/200 (Narrow-body Jet) | 4h 32m | 68% on time | 1910 miles | WiFi Available | 1 seats remain

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 23 2013 07:39 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

ouch!

seawolf17
May 23 2013 07:56 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
It had gone away for a while, but the "he can't be any worse than what we already have" meme has been recently making a comeback.

Because everyone on this team is terrible at baseball.

Edgy MD
May 23 2013 08:11 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

If only it were that simple.

metirish
May 23 2013 08:11 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

seawolf17 wrote:
Benjamin Grimm wrote:
It had gone away for a while, but the "he can't be any worse than what we already have" meme has been recently making a comeback.

Because everyone on this team is terrible at baseball.


I wonder what team hosting the All Star Game has the worst record going to the festivities?

Edgy MD
May 23 2013 08:13 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It's certainly happened, but I think that's a worry for another day.

metirish
May 23 2013 08:17 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, I'm not worried about it.......curious is all.

Edgy MD
May 23 2013 08:41 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

A quick check puts Pittsburgh in dead last in MLB at the All-Star break in 2006.

Ceetar
May 23 2013 08:44 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:
A quick check puts Pittsburgh in dead last in MLB at the All-Star break in 2006.


and they still charged $50 to park at the close lots.

Benjamin Grimm
May 23 2013 08:45 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, the fans weren't going to the park to see the last-place Pirates.

batmagadanleadoff
May 23 2013 08:47 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

What can the Mets do about Ike Davis?


Ike Davis watches the ball go by. MLB.com

By Howard Megdal
10:16 am May. 23, 2013

The New York Mets have plenty of self-inflicted problems. Ike Davis is not one of them.

But Davis is a problem, and there aren't any easy solutions for the Mets.

Davis, who has shown in the past that he possesses plenty of talent, has struggled to an absurd degree at the plate this season, with a .147 batting average and just six extra base hits all season. Now he's having problems in the field to.

On Monday night, he stood in the baseline after a ball got by him down the right field line, leading to an obstruction call. Wednesday afternoon, he failed to charge a ground ball in the seventh that tied the game, then, astonishingly, let a ball he thought was foul go by him with the go-ahead runners on base in the ninth.

It wasn't foul. The Reds went ahead and stayed there.

As Davis put it, accurately and simply: "Everything that can go wrong for me right now is going wrong."

So what are the Mets to do about it?

Remember, Davis went through similar struggles in 2012, after missing most of 2011 with an injury the team repeatedly misdiagnosed and mistreated. Then Davis contracted Valley Fever, which fatigued him for much of the spring.

But Davis recovered quite well last year. On this date in 2012, Davis was hitting .159 with five home runs. From that day forward, Davis put up an .872 O.P.S. and 27 home runs. There was ample reason to believe he'd moved past Valley Fever and the layoff, and brighter days were just ahead.

It is much harder to buy into that idea now, with a recurrence of the kind of extended slump almost nobody has, and Davis has dealt with two years in a row. The chorus grows louder each day to send him to Triple-A, and there may be merit to that idea. There is also risk.

Forget the fact that the Mets don't have anyone to replace Davis at first base; the 2013 concerns for a 17-27 team simply don't matter. The advantages for Davis to going to Las Vegas are giving him the chance to get away from daily questions about getting sent to Triple-A, while removing him from a toxic fan atmosphere and a major league club where he isn't functioning at bat or in the field.

But not only would sending him down be against his wishes, denying him a chance to replicate his 2012 resurrection, but there's also no guarantee it will work. Mets fans seem to have an outsize belief in the restorative powers of a Triple-A trip, thanks, maybe, to a pair of successful ones a decade ago by Steve Trachsel and Bobby Jones. In both cases, struggling pitchers returned after a spell in the minors, and helped the Mets greatly.

Davis might not figure anything out in Las Vegas, though, further destroying his confidence. Or he might succeed, but doing so against Triple-A pitchers in a great hitting environment wouldn't necessarily translate into big league success.

The Mets, building on a foundation of David Wright and Matt Harvey, are finding that some of the other buildling blocks they were counting on have turned to dust. The dramatic reversal of Ike Davis' career leaves the Mets with another hole to fill, and no one in the organization to do so, other than, possibly, the adequate-hitting Lucas Duda.

Davis will stay through the weekend, reportedly. What happens next is anybody's guess.


http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/s ... -ike-davis

batmagadanleadoff
May 23 2013 08:50 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike



On Baseball
Everything Is a Struggle for No-Hit, No-Field Davis


Ike Davis watched the game-winning hit by Brandon Phillips bounce past him.


By TYLER KEPNER
Published: May 22, 2013

The man with the lowest batting average in the major leagues was not thinking of his offense in the top of the ninth inning Wednesday at Citi Field. Ike Davis, the son of a major leaguer, had enough on his mind.

Davis had gone hitless again, with two walks, dropping his average to .147, last among the roughly 170 players with enough plate appearances to qualify for a batting title. None of that mattered with runners at the corners and one out in a tie game. Instincts took over for Davis, the Mets’ first baseman, who processed several factors in an instant.

Davis was holding a runner at first and shifting to cover the hole, believing it was unlikely that the right-hander at the plate, Brandon Phillips, would hit the ball down the line. He knew that the runner at third, Shin-Soo Choo, would be fast enough to beat his throw home on a softly hit ball.

When a grounder came his way, Davis ruled out throwing home to get Choo. He also decided against an aggressive attempt at a double play. On a ball like that, Davis said, stepping on first base would remove the force at second, meaning Choo’s run would count. Davis did not want to concede the run, because he knew the overpowering Reds closer Aroldis Chapman would come in for the bottom of the ninth.

As the ball skittered down the line, Davis said, it seemed to be bouncing foul. If it stayed on that course, the count would be 0-2 on Phillips. So, in far less time than it took to read about those options, Davis made the call: do nothing. Naturally, the ball stayed fair, skipping over the bag for the go-ahead hit. The Reds won, 7-4.

“Everything that can go wrong for me right now is going wrong,” Davis said, but that was as close as he came to self-pity.

Davis has 1 hit in his last 38 at-bats, and for the season, he has 4 homers and 9 runs batted in. The Mets are talking openly about sending him to the minors. Davis has responded with admirable professionalism, even if he cannot explain his slump.

“There are certain guys you root extra hard for, and Ike’s at the top of the list,” David Wright said. “The type of teammate he’s been through this whole stretch, you might be ready to pull your hair out or mope around, and he’s done the opposite. He’s rooted on his teammates, done everything he can to help the team. It’s tough to watch, especially with how hard I know the rest of the team is rooting for him to break out of this.”

It is little consolation to most Mets fans that Davis is well liked and accountable. Jason Bay was the same way. Production always matters most, but for now, character may be all that is sparing Davis from a demotion.

“It’s not like my teammates are going to tell Sandy not to send me down,” Davis said, referring to General Manager Sandy Alderson. “It’s just, if I was a bad teammate, a cancer in the clubhouse, it would be a lot easier. If I was selfish, and every time I got out I brought people down with a bad attitude and stuff like that, then I’m really affecting the team. I try not to let my struggles affect anyone else and, in fact, show more support than if I was going good.”

The Mets are a season-high 10 games below .500, at 17-27. Predictably, they are going nowhere, slipping into irrelevance before Memorial Day. If they had a compelling replacement for Davis, it might make sense to send him down. They do not.

The Mets could move Daniel Murphy from second base or Lucas Duda from left field. But who would be worth trying in the vacated positions? The Mets are not contending this season, a path they chose with their moves last winter. To win in the future, they must determine if Davis is a viable major league first baseman.

On this date last season, Davis was hitting .156 with 5 homers and 15 runs batted in. Manager Terry Collins said it was easy to dismiss that start because Davis had missed most of the previous season after Wright ran into him on a pop-up near the mound — Davis had a nearly identical collision Wednesday with shortstop Ruben Tejada — and dealt with valley fever in the spring.

“But he feels absolutely great this year and had a great spring,” Collins said. “So this is baffling to everybody. We base what we’re doing on the fact that we’re looking down the road, we’re trying to look at the big picture here, and we’ve got to get this guy going, because we’ve got to figure out: where is he going to fit?”

Last season, Davis recovered to hit .254 from May 23 through the end of the season, finishing with 32 homers and 90 runs batted in. Corner infielders who hit like that do not come cheaply and rarely become free agents. The Mets need Davis to be that guy.

It would be rash to determine, after less than two months, that Davis has no chance to recover as he did last season. If the Mets believe Davis needs a mental break from his struggles, they should send him down. Otherwise, let him keep trying. It is not as if the team is playoff bound, either way.

“I know I’m going to play better, especially hitting-wise,” Davis said. “I can’t do any worse.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/sport ... seman.html

batmagadanleadoff
May 23 2013 08:54 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ike Davis could soon be Ike Vegas
If he doesn't turn things around quickly, says Mets insider, he'll be off to Triple-A

By Adam Rubin | ESPNNewYork.com

NEW YORK -- David Wright's intervention helped shield Ike Davis from a demotion to the minors while struggling a year ago. And teammates again are backing the New York Mets first baseman this season.

This time, though, the support is unlikely to forestall relocation to Triple-A Las Vegas much longer.

"I don't think there's a ton of rope, but I don't think there will be something tonight or tomorrow," a team insider told ESPNNewYork.com on Wednesday night about demoting Davis.

Translation: Davis should be at Citi Field on Friday when the Mets open a series with the NL East-leading Atlanta Braves, but there is little assurance he remains with the major league club much beyond that point without a quick demonstration of improvement.

Davis is 1-for-his-past-38 and hitless in his past 25 at-bats with runners in scoring position. And unlike a season ago -- when the Mets could more easily overlook Davis' batting skid because the team was eight games over .500 in early June -- this time they are not getting the production elsewhere.

After getting swept by the Cincinnati Reds on Wednesday afternoon despite having phenom Matt Harvey on the mound, the Mets (17-27) dropped 10 games under .500 at the earliest point in a season since May 19, 2001.

How historically bad has the 26-year-old Davis' production been this season?

He is hitting .147 with four homers and nine RBIs as June approaches, despite occupying the cleanup spot in more than half of his 37 starts. He has the lowest batting average through 143 at-bats for a major leaguer who hit 30 homers the previous season since Cleveland Indians first baseman Andre Thornton also was hitting .147 at this point in 1985, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

Fielding has been problematic, too -- although Davis' relatively modest four errors mask the issue.

At Wrigley Field last Friday, Davis failed to catch a clean hop from shortstop Ruben Tejada, allowing Anthony Rizzo to score from second base. Then, in Monday's series opener against Cincinnati, Davis incurred a costly obstruction call when he mindlessly watched a baseball scoot into right field and unintentionally interfered with Joey Votto. In the ninth inning Wednesday, he let Brandon Phillips' grounder down the first-base line go by him, incorrectly thinking it was foul. The double plated the tiebreaking run in a 7-4 loss.

"I know I'm going to play better, especially hitting-wise," Davis said. "I can't do any worse."

Said Harvey: "He's our teammate. We all love him. And we're behind him every step of the way. It's unfair for everybody to be bashing him. He's working his ass off. He's part of the team. And we're always going to be behind him."

A scout who recently watched the Mets for several days offered a detailed explanation to ESPNNewYork.com of why pitchers are dominating Davis. Boiled down to its simplest form: Davis is susceptible to high heat as well as offspeed pitches below the strike zone.

"Basically, you can beat him with velocity that's up, and you can beat him with low-zone, 'chase,' softer breaking balls and changeups," the scout said. "How I describe it is he has 'in-between' swings. And with all that excessive hand movement, once you get ahead, all you have to do is continue to pitch off the plate -- not in the strike zone -- and he's going to get himself out. There's no reason to go back and challenge him. So once you get ahead, immediately make sure that nothing is on the plate. If nothing is on the plate, the worst thing he can do is get a base hit. But he can't hit for power."

How does a player who finished with 32 homers in 2012 despite a massive early rut get into this bad of a funk again?

Is it possible the aberration was last season's torrid second half -- when Davis' 20 homers were second-most in the NL behind San Diego's Chase Headley -- and this is really who Davis is?

"No, no, no," the scout said. "We were talking about this amongst ourselves, a group of guys. He needs to go down someplace and get it right. It's a hard place to get it right up here. All these guys are the best. Any flaws or holes are going to be exploited with the better stuff. What I don't grasp is: How does it not serve him going someplace [in the minors] without that pressure, where he's forced to make some of those adjustments, which are in his best interest? Forget about the team.

"He would have been better served spending some time down there last year, just for the reality of, 'OK, whatever it is that I'm doing, I have to change it,'" the scout continued. "The reality is he didn't change last year. Until you make those changes, you're just flying by the seat of your pants. You can't do that up here.

"Last year, Wright stepped up and vouched for him. That could certainly happen again. I guess my point is: A lot of times, what I hear is that he doesn't like changes. Guess what? If the carrot is the big leagues, you're more likely to get him to make some of those changes if you're not in the big leagues. You want to get back there bad enough."

A demotion would not be unprecedented. While Davis avoided Triple-A last season and eventually hit .255 with 20 homers and 41 RBIs in the second half, Lucas Duda did get dispatched to the minors in 2012. Also last season, comparably established first basemen Gaby Sanchez with the Miami Marlins and Adam Lind with the Toronto Blue Jays found themselves in the minors after struggles.

The prototypical Mets example: Right-hander Steve Trachsel, with his consent required because of his veteran status, went to Triple-A to reboot back in mid-May 2001 with an 8.24 ERA. He returned a better pitcher, going 10-7 with a 3.35 ERA in 20 starts that season after returning to Flushing.

One problem, though: What would the Mets do to plug first base while Davis rights himself?

Andrew Brown, who shifted from the outfield to first base last weekend with Triple-A Las Vegas, strained an oblique muscle Sunday, removing him from consideration. Josh Satin has since returned to manning first base over Zach Lutz with the Pacific Coast League club, and Satin is not on the 40-man roster.

On the major league team, moving Duda or Daniel Murphy to first base might not make a ton of sense for a relatively short Davis absence because it might disrupt their progress at their adopted positions. Which might leave Justin Turner among the few viable options. Turner happens to be 2-for-his-past-22.

"Honestly, I'm never, 'Why me?'" Davis said after Wednesday's game, as he analytically broke down his latest miscue at first base. "It is what it is. … if my teammates weren't behind me, it would be the worst thing in the world. I'd probably be at Triple-A already if my teammates didn't have confidence and want me to be here. They're a huge part of why I come in every day with a positive attitude and try to work and help them.

"I'm hard on myself anyway, because I want to do well and I know I'm a good baseball player. Sometimes in this game it's not very easy. You can't get down. You've got to keep grinding it out."

Said Wright: "There are certain guys, I guess, you root extra hard for. Ike's at the top of that list -- the type of teammate that he's been through this whole stretch. It's very easy to pull your hair out and mope around and hang your head. And he's been the opposite. He's rooted on his teammates. He's done everything he can to help this team. It's tough to watch, especially with how hard I know the guys are rooting for him to break out of this. It's one of those stretches that you wish on nobody."


http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_ ... d-demotion

Benjamin Grimm
May 23 2013 08:58 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Almost three quarters of the season still remains, so there's still time for things to take a major turn for the better. With that caveat aside, so far this year is looking like a near total disaster.

My hope for 2013 was that the Mets would take a stride towards being the contender we've been looking forward to in 2014. Good seasons from Harvey, Niese, and Wheeler. D'Arnaud would establish himself. Ike Davis would rebound. Tejada would have a solid season. Duda would get it together. One or two of the young outfielders would show themselves to be viable starters. This would all leave the Mets a small spending spree away from being a 90+ win team. That's the everything-goes-right scenario.

Other than Matt Harvey, none of this has happened. Now it looks like the Mets may have to go into the offseason looking for perhaps as many as three outfielders, a first baseman, a shortstop, maybe a starting pitcher, as well as the perennial remake of the bullpen.

Should Ike Davis go to Las Vegas because it will be the magic potion that wakes him up again? No, that's not the reason. The reason is because he's AWFUL, and if he's no longer the first baseman of the future then the Mets should stop giving him innings and at bats and start trying alternatives.

And Lucas Duda's not the answer either.

Ceetar
May 23 2013 09:09 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Why is Lucas Duda no longer the answer?

Benjamin Grimm
May 23 2013 09:14 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Because he's not good enough.

batmagadanleadoff
May 23 2013 09:16 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Benjamin Grimm wrote:

Other than Matt Harvey, none of this has happened....


Parnell's improved, no?

seawolf17
May 23 2013 09:17 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Disagree. Duda's the second-best offensive weapon on this team. Maybe not much of a defender, but he's a usable piece.

metirish
May 23 2013 09:19 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

seawolf17 wrote:
Disagree. Duda's the second-best offensive weapon on this team. Maybe not much of a defender, but he's a usable piece.



I think Duda at first could be a disaster(apologies to real disasters) with the glove, especially if it happened because Davis got sent down....added pressure and all that.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 23 2013 09:19 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Duda's gonna have a good year when it's all over. I think they're committed to sticking with him in left until or unless Ike becomes permanently unable to help through being unable to get it together here or the minors or an injury. Which could happen but not right away.

My concern with Ike as I said before is my belief that his slump has become a kind of sickness that's infected the whole team and interferes with sustaining anything. It's spooked them all.

Ceetar
May 23 2013 09:21 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
Because he's not good enough.


but he is..so..

Anyway, Duda at first unless you're committed to that plan forever probably means Cowgill in left? The reason you don't move Duda is because there seem to be more 'hitter' types that you can play at first right now.

Lefty Specialist
May 23 2013 09:27 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Duda's a better answer than the other options. First, he's done it in the past, and while he's no Keith Hernandez, he wasn't as bad as many feared. We already know he's an awkward, lumbering outfielder, and that's not going to change no matter how long he's out there.

This opens up a spot in the outfield, and frankly anybody you plug in there will give you better production in the lineup than Davis. Baxter. Valdespin. Niewenhuis. A 53-year old Kevin McReynolds.

Frankly, I no longer trust Ike. He got a pass last year due to injury and illness, but neither of those is a factor this year. I think he needs a wake-up call, and the only way that can effectively be delivered is with a trip to Las Vegas. If it doesn't work, then you move on.

Benjamin Grimm
May 23 2013 09:31 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Just because Duda's better than any other outfielder or first baseman on the team, it doesn't mean he's good enough to be a starter on a contender, which is, I hope, still the goal.

Maybe he'll get there, but until and unless he does, I think that the Mets need to find someone better.

And yes, I did overlook Parnell. After Harvey, he's been the other bit of good news for this team.

Vic Sage
May 23 2013 09:33 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Why do these articles keep saying "the Mets have no one to replace him"? Do we have a top 1B prospect ready? No, but Brown and Lutz are on the 40-man, and Campbell and Satin are at AAA, too, and they're all hitting well this year. You can throw Dykstra at AA in there for good measure. These aren't young kids and they've proven to be hitters at the top minor league levels. I'd say any of them could hit better than .150 while Davis takes the time to work on his swing in Vegas.

Ceetar
May 23 2013 09:38 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Vic Sage wrote:
Why do these articles keep saying "the Mets have no one to replace him"? Do we have a top 1B prospect ready? No, but Brown and Lutz are on the 40-man, and Campbell and Satin are at AAA, too, and they're all hitting well this year. You can throw Dykstra at AA in there for good measure. These aren't young kids and they've proven to be hitters at the top minor league levels. I'd say any of them could hit better than .150 while Davis takes the time to work on his swing in Vegas.


Because these articles have written off 2013 (which might be with good cause at this point) and are focused on the future. None of these guys are considered long-term answers or big prospects, so the idea is that Ike Davis is probably the "most talented" of the bunch and if he doesn't right himself in a convincing way you'd go elsewhere anyway.

I tend to agree with you though. Lutz is my choice due to 40 man simplicity if they choose to replace Ike.

Duda's 26th in the NL in wOBA. that's certainly good.

seawolf17
May 23 2013 09:41 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Josh Satin is .300/.414/.475 in Vegas. I know he's not on the 40, which complicates the issue, but I'd rather try to sneak Lutz or Cowgill through waivers and give him a shot.

Duda/Ankiel/Byrd isn't a great outfield, but it's not terrible.

Vic Sage
May 23 2013 09:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

i wrote off 2013 before the season started, so i have no issue with that. I just think that Davis needs some time away, with an incentive to accept changes in his approach, if he's ever going to be anything. And it does the other young players on the team no good at all to marinate in the juice of Davis's fruitless flailing. It's depressing to all and sundry. And whether Lutz, Satin, Cambell or Brown are "the answer" at 1B has yet to be determined. Some AAAA guys just need a real shot.

Vic Sage
May 23 2013 09:44 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Duda/Ankiel/Byrd isn't a great outfield, but it's not terrible.


yes. yes it is.
In fact, if you looked up terrible OFs in the Encyclopedia Britannica, there they'd be.

Edgy MD
May 23 2013 09:48 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I think Duda in left and Duda at first and Duda alternating between left and first are all viable options depending on who you add to the lineup. If Duda was the problem, we'd be a lot better.

batmagadanleadoff
May 23 2013 09:49 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Lefty Specialist wrote:
We already know [Duda's] an awkward, lumbering outfielder, and that's not going to change no matter how long he's out there.



I think so, too. Duda is never gonna be an adequate major league outfielder.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 23 2013 10:19 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Boo Radley's a lot closer to adequate at first than he is in the outfield, though, right? And he's a lot closer to adequate there (with bat, at least) than our minor-league options there (although I wouldn't argue with bringing Lutz/Campbell up as a semi-platoon/PH option).

Edgy MD
May 23 2013 10:22 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

He's probably younger than what Lee created, but if a film remake cast Duda as Boo Radley, I'd go and see it about 100 times.

Mets – Willets Point
May 23 2013 10:24 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The real problem is that they stopped updating Ike Davis Facts.

duan
May 23 2013 10:26 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Baseball Prospectus (early in the season) had half a podcast devoted to Ike Davis and saying how he basically didn't seem to get that there was an issue with his overall approach. His response to his troubles was (and this was a direct quote)
"they'll (pitchers) start making some mistakes and I'll start hitting some homers"
and that he just didn't seem to even notice how he was flailing so badly.

Benjamin Grimm
May 23 2013 10:29 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Boo Radley! I love it! Best Mets nickname of the year!

(It's even better than "Jake Monster.")

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 23 2013 10:29 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Or "Boom Radley?"



Scout, I think I'm beginning to understand why he doesn't take pitches the opposite way... it's because he wants to stay inside.

Ceetar
May 23 2013 10:30 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

duan wrote:
Baseball Prospectus (early in the season) had half a podcast devoted to Ike Davis and saying how he basically didn't seem to get that there was an issue with his overall approach. His response to his troubles was (and this was a direct quote)
"they'll (pitchers) start making some mistakes and I'll start hitting some homers"
and that he just didn't seem to even notice how he was flailing so badly.


is that what happened? I'm not sure I'm convinced that his overall approach isn't just a symptom and not a cause. Presumably he's taking different approaches in desperation too. I wonder if he's tried just standing up there a whole game and refusing to swing and see if he can steal some walks.

Edgy MD
May 23 2013 10:32 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Also works with the double meaning of "Scout."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 23 2013 10:32 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

/Points fingergun, winks

Ashie62
May 23 2013 06:21 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The Mets are on a pace to lose 100...If I am led to believe the rebuild is taking they can address the Ike situation be a means other than putting their heads in the sand.

More reason for me to not spend money on the Mets.

metsmarathon
May 23 2013 08:48 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

expectorate the mets!

duan
May 24 2013 05:23 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ceetar wrote:
duan wrote:
Baseball Prospectus (early in the season) had half a podcast devoted to Ike Davis and saying how he basically didn't seem to get that there was an issue with his overall approach. His response to his troubles was (and this was a direct quote)
"they'll (pitchers) start making some mistakes and I'll start hitting some homers"
and that he just didn't seem to even notice how he was flailing so badly.


is that what happened? I'm not sure I'm convinced that his overall approach isn't just a symptom and not a cause. Presumably he's taking different approaches in desperation too. I wonder if he's tried just standing up there a whole game and refusing to swing and see if he can steal some walks.


But their point was, he (Ike Davis) expected
Pitcher Mistakes = Homers for Ike
and that he was fundamentally missing the point. His only expectation was to run into mistakes and deposit them over the wall. That isn't enough to be a valuable hitter.

Frayed Knot
May 24 2013 05:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

That's the type of hitter that scouting reports label as someone who "can be pitched to".
IOW, make a mistake and he might hit it a mile but make smart pitches and you'll get him out most of the time. And, although I don't know if this is provable statistically, that type also gains the rep as one who'll get almost all his hits in 'lost cause' situations but rarely in meaningful spots when pitchers are bearing down.
I think I first heard that 'can be pitched to' term applied to Mike Marshall (the 1B/OF obviously not the pitcher).

Ceetar
May 24 2013 07:18 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
That's the type of hitter that scouting reports label as someone who "can be pitched to".
IOW, make a mistake and he might hit it a mile but make smart pitches and you'll get him out most of the time. And, although I don't know if this is provable statistically, that type also gains the rep as one who'll get almost all his hits in 'lost cause' situations but rarely in meaningful spots when pitchers are bearing down.
I think I first heard that 'can be pitched to' term applied to Mike Marshall (the 1B/OF obviously not the pitcher).



Adam Dunn, Ryan Howard, etc. Three True Outcome type hitters. Most big lefties seem to fit this mold, when they're sluggers anyway, because so many believe a 'solid lefty in the pen' basically neutralizes them.

I think there was hope Davis was beyond that, but perhaps he's not. I wonder if _he_ resigned himself to the idea if he'd be less slumpy. Perhaps he set himself up wrong to start this season. He clearly came in as scouted as a power hitter, so I wonder if he'd tailored his approach more like Duda (i.e. take everything you can't smash) if he'd get some of those 'scared' walks pitchers give out, especially early on when control might be a little flakier. And then if he smashes a couple he'll only get more 'scared' walks.

I dunno, just spitballing here. I always wonder (and maybe teams do) if it'd be worthwhile to set up a 'dummy scouting company' and hire people to advance scout your own team. presumably they'll see the same things other teams see, and then you can adjust according.

Vic Sage
May 24 2013 07:58 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

the dummy scouting company is called a "coaching staff", and i'm sure they share their insights with each other and the team throughout a season.

I don't mind having a 3TO-type hitter in the lineup (you don't want a bunch of them, but 1 in the 5th-6th hole can really put pressure on a pitcher), but they have to be prodigious sluggers. 25-30hrs won't cut it. They have to give you 40+hrs and 100+ BBs; then they can be quite valuable. Much less than that, though, and they just make too many outs for too little production. And so far, that's been the deal with Ike; 25 HRs and 70 BBs aren't worth 150Ks, a .240 BA and an incredibly inconsistent bat that can disappear for MONTHS at a time. The bang isn't worth the buck. If he doesn't change his entire approach, i don't see him staying in the majors long term.

batmagadanleadoff
May 24 2013 08:39 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

So if Ike is demoted, who's on first?

_______________________________________________



Mets’ options limited to replace Davis


By MIKE PUMA
Last Updated: 4:18 AM, May 24, 2013
Posted: 2:00 AM, May 24, 2013

If the Mets had a slam dunk replacement at first base, Ike Davis might already be the mayor of Sin City.

But as the Mets prepare to give the beleaguered Davis another chance — perhaps through this weekend — before deciding if a demotion to Triple-A Las Vegas is applicable, they will consider their options at the position.

Daniel Murphy, Lucas Duda and Justin Turner would be the in-house candidates for first base. Less likely is the possibility the club would promote Josh Satin from Las Vegas to swap places with Davis.

“You can put Murphy over there at first and let [Jordany] Valdespin have a chance at second,” manager Terry Collins said. “But I don’t have any idea yet. You can put Duda over there, but if that’s the case who plays left field? You can put Turner at first and see how he does, but until [Davis’ situation] is decided, I really haven’t gotten anything etched in stone yet.”

Murphy saw extended action at first base in 2011 after Davis sustained a left-ankle bone bruise in May, sidelining him for the remainder of the season. Murphy also played most of the 2009 season at first base after the organization abandoned trying to convert him into an outfielder.

Though moving Duda to first base would create another hole in an already weak outfield, there are some in the organization intrigued by the possibility of a switch.

Such a move would let the Mets view Duda at his natural position for an extended period, allowing the organization to determine if there is a comfortability factor that can lead to him surge offensively. Duda is batting only .185 in May after a hot start and remains an eyesore in the outfield, despite his switch this season from right to left field.

Team officials recently toyed with the possibility of promoting Andrew Brown from Las Vegas to play first base, but Brown strained an oblique last weekend, putting that idea on ice.

Turner has received action at first base this season against lefties, but there are still questions whether he can succeed as an everyday player. He would perhaps stand to benefit if Murphy moved to first, allowing Collins to employ a platoon with Valdespin and Turner at second base.

Satin entered yesterday’s play batting .300 with six homers and 24 RBIs for Las Vegas and could receive some consideration for Davis’ spot.

“Satin fits into their mold of taking pitches and all that kind of stuff,” said a National League talent evaluator. “He can hit big league pitching, but he’s got to play. He’s not a guy coming off the bench.”

Davis is stuck in a 1-for-38 (.026) tailspin and has struggled defensively recently. His latest miscue came Wednesday, when he believed Brandon Phillips’ ninth-inning chopper was foul and let the ball go. The ball was ruled fair, giving Phillips a double as the Reds scored the go-ahead run in what became a series sweep of the Mets.

“I know I’m going to play better, especially hitting — I can’t do any worse,” said Davis, who is batting .147 with four homers and nine RBIs. “Everything that can wrong right now for me is going wrong.”


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/fir ... Ibjh6qV40J

metirish
May 24 2013 09:23 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I thought two weeks ago you couldn't do "any worse", but indeed you have, so yeah, you can do worse.

Swan Swan H
May 24 2013 08:00 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Adam Rubin ?@AdamRubinESPN 1m

Wilmer Flores at first base tonight for Triple-A Las Vegas. Only second time manning the position this season.

metirish
May 24 2013 08:41 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Golden again for all the wrong reasons tonight.

Edgy MD
May 24 2013 09:04 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Flores in bloom at first tonight in Vegas.

Ashie62
May 26 2013 01:19 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Jesus Montero has been Ikelike in Seattle...The Mariners sent hin to AAA...

Lefty Specialist
May 27 2013 04:51 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ike's clutch single on national TV last night probably bought him a couple of extra weeks to flail and bail in New York.

Zvon
May 27 2013 05:01 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Lefty Specialist wrote:
Ike's clutch single on national TV last night probably bought him a couple of extra weeks to flail and bail in New York.


I figure he's got these two games at Citi.

smg58
May 28 2013 10:31 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Does Ike still have options, or would he have to be placed on waivers?

Edgy MD
May 28 2013 10:37 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Maybe that standing O on his RBI single the other night should have been Terry's cue to get him out on a positive and send him down after the game --- or better yet, remove him for a pinch-runner and send him down immediately.

Frayed Knot
May 28 2013 10:40 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

smg58 wrote:
Does Ike still have options, or would he have to be placed on waivers?


I'm almost positive he still has options. Certainly folks keep talking about it as if he does - and folks who actually know what they're talking about, like Gary C and others who you would think would have brought up the subject of waivers if that were an issue.

Zvon
May 28 2013 06:00 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I have some free time. Okay, here's how I would fix Ike.


1) Stand up again like you used to. If only because it is easier to sustain over the course of a career (if you want one). You're a big guy. Not a slap hitter. You can hit without the crouch. You have done it before. Drop the crouch. Stand up. Trust your stride. Use your stride.

2) Start going out late and stayin up watching movies or whatever it is you did before the media ratted you out in regards to your personal schedule. Only you know what kind of rest cycle you need.

3) Swing a bat in front of a full length mirror for, meh, 10 to 15 minutes a day. Do it in slow motion. From both front view and side view make sure your hips lead and your arms become a controlled whip as a result. You know you can do it, so just trust your hands to the ball. The stride step and hips can move in sync, but if your hips and hands are coming through in sync, you've been fooled by the pitch. Ideally: Step/turn hips-swing. Just visualize this, continuously and seriously. Do this in private somewhere in the clubhouse.

There. I did my best. I wash my hands of the situation. If he don't listen, what can I do?
This is a semi-serious post.

Edgy MD
May 28 2013 07:12 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, he's not crouching in his first trip.

Zvon
May 28 2013 08:09 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:
Well, he's not crouching in his first trip.

Nor his second. That's a step in the right direction, I firmly believe.

Zvon
May 28 2013 08:13 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Now I hope they afford him a few more steps before giving up. He'll find the groove. And that short porch in Skanktown is mighty inviting.

Ashie62
May 28 2013 08:22 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Once Ike is behind in the count he is an automatic out..

Frayed Knot
May 28 2013 08:28 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ashie62 wrote:
Once Ike is behind in the count he is an automatic out..


Once Ike is in the batters box he's an automatic out.

Swan Swan H
May 28 2013 09:11 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It's a two-seater, and Ruben Tejada is shotgun.

Ashie62
May 28 2013 09:15 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Swan Swan H wrote:
It's a two-seater, and Ruben Tejada is shotgun.


Thats pretty good

smg58
May 29 2013 07:19 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
Ashie62 wrote:
Once Ike is behind in the count he is an automatic out..


Once Ike is in the batters box he's an automatic out.


Well he's almost always getting behind, so you're both right. The key to whatever recovery Ike will have is strike one. As in, don't let anybody throw a fastball to get it, and don't go fishing for what would be ball one.

Frayed Knot
May 29 2013 07:25 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

As somebody said on the broadcast last night (and you can do it now with these 'Pitch F/X' charts) if you were to see a graph of all the pitches Ike's seen lately and the results you'll probably see most of his swings-and-misses are at stuff out of the zone and many of the ones he takes wind up as called strikes.

Ceetar
May 29 2013 07:34 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
As somebody said on the broadcast last night (and you can do it now with these 'Pitch F/X' charts) if you were to see a graph of all the pitches Ike's seen lately and the results you'll probably see most of his swings-and-misses are at stuff out of the zone and many of the ones he takes wind up as called strikes.


well, someone run one! (I don't have the time to figure it out at work. bleh, jobs.)

Benjamin Grimm
May 29 2013 07:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

If that's true, that he's taking strikes and swinging at balls, then he's about as lost as you can be.

metirish
May 29 2013 07:53 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ceetar wrote:
Frayed Knot wrote:
As somebody said on the broadcast last night (and you can do it now with these 'Pitch F/X' charts) if you were to see a graph of all the pitches Ike's seen lately and the results you'll probably see most of his swings-and-misses are at stuff out of the zone and many of the ones he takes wind up as called strikes.


well, someone run one! (I don't have the time to figure it out at work. bleh, jobs.)




Yeah, Ron was telling Keith.......he concurred .....from what I have see they rarely even throw him strikes now...why would they, he swings at shit.


Ike has got to go.

metsmarathon
May 29 2013 07:53 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

i don't know how to make one of the charts, but i do know how to look at the raw numbers...

there are two data sources. baseball info solutions and pitch fx. the first set of numbers is from bis.

bis wrote:

this year, ike davis is swinging at 26.7% of pitches out of the strike zone, making contact 48.0% of the time on those swings.
last year, ike davis swung at 29.3% of pitches out of hte strike zone, making contact 60.4% of the time on those swings.
in 2011, ike davis swung at 25.4% of pitches out of the zone, making contact 68.4% of hte time on those swings.

this year, ike davis is swinging at 71.1% of pitches in the strike zone, making contact 70.6% of the time on those swings.
last year, ike davis swung at 68.0% of pitches in the strike zone, making contact 74.7% of the time on those swings.
in 2011 ike davis swung at 66.1% of pitches in the strike zone, making contact 78.4% of hte time on those swings.

this year, 44.8% of pitches thrown to ike davis have been in hte strike zone, compared to 40.4% last year, and 42.5% in 2011


pitch f/x wrote:

this year, ike davis is swinging at 30.2% of pitches out of the strike zone, making contact 52.3% of the time on those swings.
last year, ike davis swung at 30.7% of pitches out of hte strike zone, making contact 59.8% of the time on those swings.
in 2011, ike davis swung at 25.5% of pitches out of the zone, making contact 65.8% of hte time on those swings.

this year, ike davis is swinging at 62.6% of pitches in the strike zone, making contact 78.7% of the time on those swings.
last year, ike davis swung at 61.5% of pitches in the strike zone, making contact 83.6% of the time on those swings.
in 2011 ike davis swung at 62.7% of pitches in the strike zone, making contact 84.0% of hte time on those swings.

this year, 48.3% of pitches thrown to ike davis have been in hte strike zone, compared to 45% last year, and 45.5% in 2011


what does it all mean, other than that there's a difference between what bis calls a strike and what pitch f/x calls a strike?

well, ike isn't really swinging at balls out of the zone more often, but when he does, he's making much less contact.
and he's not taking more pitches in teh zone for strikes. in fact, the opposite is happening. he's swinging a maybe little more often, but making less contact. he's also getting thrown more strikes, because pitchers aren't afraid of him doing much of anything with the ball.

Centerfield
May 29 2013 08:17 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I don't know how else to put it, but Ike Davis looks like a guy who lacks the ability to hit major league pitching.

As far as I can tell, he has two major problems:

1. Lack of batspeed: The fastballs are too fast for him. So he starts his swing earlier, making him susceptible to breaking pitches. This is why he ends up flailing at pitches in the dirt.

2. Lack of hand-eye coordination: On the rare occasion that he guesses correctly he lacks the hand-eye coordination to hit it square, often fouling it off or making weak contact.

When other hitters slump, they get out of balance, or their swing gets long. I don't know how one corrects these two problems. All I know is that I have never seen a major league hitter look this bad.

metirish
May 29 2013 08:19 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Have you guys noticed how he squints and blinks a lot after flailing hopelessly at a pitch? I've seen this a few times now , like he has bad eye allergies or something.

seawolf17
May 29 2013 08:46 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

As far as I can tell, he has one major problem: He's terrible at baseball.

Swan Swan H
May 29 2013 08:56 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

metirish wrote:
Have you guys noticed how he squints and blinks a lot after flailing hopelessly at a pitch? I've seen this a few times now , like he has bad eye allergies or something.


Absolutely. I mentioned it back on page 1 of this thread, and it's not getting any better.

metirish
May 29 2013 09:14 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Swan Swan H wrote:
When Davis came up for his last AB last night he was blinking his eyes to the point where it was making me nervous. Blinking and opening them up wide in that 'who, me, I'm not tired' move. Makes me wonder if there's not something there that's bothering him.




You sure did .....

Frayed Knot
May 29 2013 09:27 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

ike isn't really swinging at balls out of the zone more often, but when he does, he's making much less contact.


Which implies that the bad balls he's swinging at are really bad now as compared to maybe only slightly out of the zone in the past.

Swan Swan H
May 29 2013 09:33 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

metirish wrote:
Swan Swan H wrote:
When Davis came up for his last AB last night he was blinking his eyes to the point where it was making me nervous. Blinking and opening them up wide in that 'who, me, I'm not tired' move. Makes me wonder if there's not something there that's bothering him.


You sure did .....


I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it. Now if they only do something about it.....

Vic Sage
May 29 2013 09:46 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Centerfield wrote:
I don't know how else to put it, but Ike Davis looks like a guy who lacks the ability to hit major league pitching.

As far as I can tell, he has two major problems:

1. Lack of batspeed: The fastballs are too fast for him. So he starts his swing earlier, making him susceptible to breaking pitches. This is why he ends up flailing at pitches in the dirt.

2. Lack of hand-eye coordination: On the rare occasion that he guesses correctly he lacks the hand-eye coordination to hit it square, often fouling it off or making weak contact.

When other hitters slump, they get out of balance, or their swing gets long. I don't know how one corrects these two problems. All I know is that I have never seen a major league hitter look this bad.


Except the notion that he just lacks the ability to hit major league pitching is contradicted by his actual major league performance prior to this season. Unless we're saying something happened between the end of last season and the beginning of this one (injury? illness? mental breakdown? replaced by a pod person?), or that he suffers from a heretofore unknown hitter's syndrome similar to the Steve Blass syndrome suffered by pitchers (including our own CFer), then it seems too easy to say "oh, he just sucks." IF only it were that simple, it would be less frustrating.

Edgy MD
May 29 2013 10:05 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I certainly don't think he lacks bat speed. He's just got an approach that's all flummoxed, and has failed at the internal game of figuring out what pitch to expect, what part of the plate to expect it, how to cover that part of the plate, and how to defend against being wrong. All players fail at it --- most fail seven times out of ten or more. But when you fail enough, you adjust your approach so much that you've lost faith in it and go up there clueless, and the slump becomes self-perpetuating.

So you go back to basics. Start with one value and build off of that. Sometimes it's best to do that in the minors.

Centerfield
May 29 2013 10:12 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Vic Sage wrote:
I don't know how else to put it, but Ike Davis looks like a guy who lacks the ability to hit major league pitching.

As far as I can tell, he has two major problems:

1. Lack of batspeed: The fastballs are too fast for him. So he starts his swing earlier, making him susceptible to breaking pitches. This is why he ends up flailing at pitches in the dirt.

2. Lack of hand-eye coordination: On the rare occasion that he guesses correctly he lacks the hand-eye coordination to hit it square, often fouling it off or making weak contact.

When other hitters slump, they get out of balance, or their swing gets long. I don't know how one corrects these two problems. All I know is that I have never seen a major league hitter look this bad.


Except the notion that he just lacks the ability to hit major league pitching is contradicted by his actual major league performance prior to this season. Unless we're saying something happened between the end of last season and the beginning of this one (injury? illness? mental breakdown? replaced by a pod person?), or that he suffers from a heretofore unknown hitter's syndrome similar to the Steve Blass syndrome suffered by pitchers (including our own CFer), then it seems too easy to say "oh, he just sucks." IF only it were that simple, it would be less frustrating.


Of course, he absolutely has the ability to do so. Which is what is so baffling.

I'm just saying when other players slump, they tend to have problems (getting out in front, swinging for the fences) that we've seen before. And those, while hard to break, at least there is a game plan to attack them.

With Ike, right now, he appears to lack batspeed and the requisite hand-eye coordination. If I had never seen him before, I'd say he's not a major league player. I don't know how you correct that. I don't know how you get him back to a .900+ OPS guy (before his ankle injury) other than to say "Don't start your swing as early, when you start it, swing faster, and when you swing, hit the ball better."

Edgy MD
May 29 2013 10:26 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

And apart from my daily plotzing over Allan Dykstra, it's worth noting that Wilmer Flores has had multiple hits in four straight games.

Vic Sage
May 29 2013 10:29 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 29 2013 10:32 AM

"Don't start your swing as early, when you start it, swing faster, and when you swing, hit the ball better."

sounds like sound advice to me.

Reminds me of this time at college, when i had friend (yes I did!) named, lets call him "Fred". Fred had poor social skills and could come off nakedly manipulative and desperate. I liked him anyway, but the folks i hung with gave Fred a hard time. And so one day he comes to me for advice "how can i get them to like me?" he asks (The very question betrays why they did not). And all i could think of to say was "Fred, you know the way you are? Well, don't be that way."

Ike, you know the way you are?
Don't be that way.
Now play ball!

Vic Sage
May 29 2013 10:32 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:
And apart from my daily plotzing over Allan Dykstra, it's worth noting that Wilmer Flores has had multiple hits in four straight games.


and Josh Satin has a career .300+BA/.400 OB%/ .850 OPS over 2600 plate appearances. Why shouldn't he get a legit shot?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 29 2013 10:33 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Satin & Dykstra are non-40men which complicates things a little. Just saying.

Vic Sage
May 29 2013 10:34 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

you move Francisco to the 60-day. complication solved.

Edgy MD
May 29 2013 10:41 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Vic Sage wrote:
Edgy MD wrote:
And apart from my daily plotzing over Allan Dykstra, it's worth noting that Wilmer Flores has had multiple hits in four straight games.


and Josh Satin has a career .300+BA/.400 OB%/ .850 OPS over 2600 plate appearances. Why shouldn't he get a legit shot?

Not saying he shouldn't.

Clearly the team has options but are shy about upsetting their long-term hopes for Davis.

Benjamin Grimm
May 29 2013 10:48 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Those long-term hopes would have to be a lot less than they had been, I would think.

I don't think the Mets should give up on him, but they might as well send him to Vegas. Tell him he'll have to earn his way back. And everyone (Ike, the Mets, the fans) should be prepared for the possibility that he'll never do so.

batmagadanleadoff
May 29 2013 10:51 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

First baseman "Marvelous" Marv Throneberry was sent down to AAA (Buffalo) in May of '63, and never returned to the majors.

Edgy MD
May 29 2013 11:20 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

And Kranepool 1970 did. Life is fraught with peril. He knows what will get him back and he has to figure out how to deliver it.

Lefty Specialist
May 29 2013 01:24 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Be sure to bring change for tolls, Ike.

1. Start out going north on Shea Rd/126th St toward 37th Ave. 0.2 mi
2. Turn left onto Shea Rd. 0.4 mi
3. Take the ramp toward I-678/Whitestone Br/NY 25A East/Northern Blvd. 0.3 mi
4. Merge onto I-678 N via the ramp on the left toward Whitestone Br (Portions toll). 5.2 mi
5. Take the I-95 S/Cross Bronx Exp/I-278 W/Bruckner Exp exit toward Geo Washington Br/Triboro Br. 0.5 mi
6. Merge onto I-95 S/Cross Bronx Expy toward I-95 S. 5.1 mi
7. Keep right to take I-95 S toward G W Bridge/Lower Level/Last NY Exit (Crossing into New Jersey). 2.6 mi
8. Keep right to take I-95 S/New Jersey Turnpike S toward I-80/Garden State Parkway/Hackensack. 2.5 mi
9. Merge onto I-80 W via EXIT 69 toward Garden State Parkway/Hackensack/Paterson.
22.3 mi
10. Take the I-80 W exit on the left toward Netcong/Del Water Gap. 0.3 mi
11. Merge onto I-80 Express Ln W. 1.7 mi
12. I-80 Express Ln W becomes I-80 W (Portions toll) (Passing through Pennsylvania and Ohio, then crossing into Indiana). 727.3 mi
13. Merge onto I-80 W/I-94 W via EXIT 21 toward IN-51 S (Crossing into Illinois). 17.1 mi
14. Keep left to take I-80 W toward Wisconsin-Iowa/IL-83/Torrence Ave (Portions toll) (Crossing into Iowa). 467.1 mi
15. Keep left to take I-80 W toward Omaha (Crossing into Nebraska). 353.0 mi
16. Keep left to take I-76 S via EXIT 102 toward Denver (Crossing into Colorado). 186.8 mi
17. I-76 S becomes I-70 W (Crossing into Utah). 501.8 mi
18. Merge onto I-15 S via the exit on the left toward Las Vegas (Passing through Arizona, then crossing into Nevada). 242.3 mi
19. Take the Washington Ave exit, EXIT 44. 0.2 mi
20. Turn sharp left onto NV-578/W Washington Ave. Continue to follow W Washington Ave.
If you reach D St you've gone a little too far. 0.8 mi
21. Turn right. 0.1 miles past N Las Vegas Blvd
22. 850 LAS VEGAS BLVD. N.

If you reach N Las Vegas Blvd you've gone about 0.4 miles too far

Frayed Knot
Jun 05 2013 06:14 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Maybe Ike ought to think about giving up the chewing tabaccy.
It would be a good idea whether it helps his hitting or not.

Zvon
Jun 05 2013 06:35 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
Maybe Ike ought to think about giving up the chewing tabaccy.
It would be a good idea whether it helps his hitting or not.

Do players get a tobacco rush from chewin that shit? I still smoke cigs but I never understood chewing tobacco. Did try it once and it kinda stung and I did get a lil hyper rush. Never tried it again.

Frayed Knot
Jun 05 2013 06:36 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Zvon wrote:
Do players get a tobacco rush from chewin that shit?


Hell yeah, it's why they chew.

Zvon
Jun 05 2013 06:42 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
Zvon wrote:
Do players get a tobacco rush from chewin that shit?


Hell yeah, it's why they chew.

Looks like Ike spit it out for this at bat. Look for his laptop on the bench cuz he's gotta be reading you.

Nymr83
Jun 05 2013 06:52 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Send him down. I'd like to see what Satin can do.

Zvon
Jun 05 2013 06:57 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Nymr83 wrote:
Send him down. I'd like to see what Satin can do.

And then I can take advantage of the twitter account I call "Josh Satins Eyebrows"

Edgy MD
Jun 05 2013 07:26 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ah, yes, Kim Carnes' lesser-loved followup single.

metirish
Jun 09 2013 03:41 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Optioned to Las Vegas along with Baxter and Carson

metirish
Jun 09 2013 03:43 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

per @MarcGraig

Mets won't release promotions until tomorrow....


odd wording

G-Fafif
Jun 09 2013 03:56 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Maybe Ike can convert his hot seat into a hot hand and get lucky in Vegas.

Or it was nice knowing him.

Ashie62
Jun 09 2013 07:08 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Terry Collins is next to get whacked..

metirish
Jun 09 2013 07:14 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Maybe he is but it wouldn't matter a jot with this group.

Edgy MD
Jun 09 2013 07:31 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

And these guys didn't get whacked.

batmagadanleadoff
Jun 10 2013 01:23 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Has Ike become non-tender candidate?
June, 10, 2013
By Adam Rubin | ESPNNewYork.com

NEW YORK -- Will Ike Davis' performance cause him to price himself out of returning to the Mets in 2014?

That was the case with Mike Pelfrey last offseason. And it's at least worth wondering about with Davis, although there is plenty of season remaining.

Davis -- in the majors or minors -- is earning $3.125 million this season. He again is eligible for arbitration next winter.

Arbitration-eligible players almost always get a raise, although the only rule is that the pay must be at least 80 percent of the previous season. (So $2.5 million is the absolute floor.)

One rival team entered the season estimating Davis would go to $6.1 million in 2013 if he had a normal performance. Clearly, that wouldn't materialize barring an extraordinary second half. But even at $3.5 million or $4 million next year -- a modest salary -- the Mets might have to consider ending Davis' Mets tenure.

The Mets cut loose Pelfrey last winter rather than face a raise after he made $5.7 million the previous year.

In Davis' case, it would seem logical if they were averse to a salary increase that they would explore a trade before considering a December non-tender. Non-tendering Davis would make him a free agent and free to sign anywhere with no salary floor other than the MLB minimum.

Of course, on the trade front, an NL executive who predicts Davis gets non-tendered told ESPNNewYork.com: "They have completely devalued Ike Davis."


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... -candidate

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2013 01:29 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yeah. "They" did.

Edgy MD
Jun 10 2013 01:30 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yeah, really. Promise me that executive never works for the Mets.

Ceetar
Jun 10 2013 01:49 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

There was also the "I had Tommy John surgery and probably won't be available to pitch to start the season" bit with Pelfrey, but I guess we can gloss over that?

batmagadanleadoff
Jun 10 2013 06:19 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2013 08:11 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

That is just a terrible similarity score, Edward.

Zvon
Jun 10 2013 09:20 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

batmagadanleadoff wrote:

Ike will be back someday.

metsguyinmichigan
Jun 10 2013 09:33 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Big Pelf has a 6.40 era and is 3-6. Did they make the right call on that one?

Edgy MD
Jun 10 2013 09:42 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Hard to argue otherwise.

Here's Fangraphs trying to corral the problem.

Edgy MD
Jun 17 2013 12:47 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ike in Vegas: .174 / .296 / .217 // .514 in six games and 27 plate appearances. That's at least an improvement on the .500 OPS he was putting up in the bigs, but nobody's idea of a turnaround. He has no homers and one RBI. He's walked four times and whiffed seven.

I suppose making more contact is as good a place to start as any. But crikey, that guy's a Nobel-level project to take on.

batmagadanleadoff
Jun 21 2013 08:20 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

[youtube]DIoKr9VDg3A[/youtube]

Ike Davis belts two HRs at Triple-A Vegas

Frayed Knot
Jun 21 2013 08:27 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yeah, he's suddenly up to .306/.457/.583 // 1040 over 36 ABs/46 PAs, which looks even better after that slow start
6 of his 11 hits are for XBs and walks are outpacing Ks 10 to 9

Nice going dude. Now keep it up for another few weeks and then we'll talk.

And did you hear Gary talking last night about the checklist of things they wanted Ike to work on?: Well (relayed via Terry) ... we want to cut down on his swing hitch ... and we're working on him keeping his weight back ... and we'd like to see him cut back on his head movement ... and we're trying to get him closer to the plate ... and then there's the pitch recognition thing ...

And I'm thinking, 'Shit, if it were easy to teach guys all that stuff I just might jump a plane to Vegas and see if they could fix me'!

Edgy MD
Jun 21 2013 08:37 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I'm guessing they hope he returns first game after the All-Star break --- that is, if he's not voted onto the team.

Ceetar
Jun 21 2013 08:39 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

honestly I wouldn't be surprised tosee him back if he continue to hit at this rate the next time the Mets are home.

vtmet
Jun 21 2013 08:52 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:
I'm guessing they hope he returns first game after the All-Star break --- that is, if he's not voted onto the team.


agreed...if a lot of his problems are timing, overthinking, routine; then bringing him back before the A/S Game doesn't make sense to me when he'd be "benched" for 4 consecutive days due to the A/S break...

but at the same time...Mets fans should focus their attention on getting Ike elected to the A/S game...when was the last time that a player that was demoted to AAA been elected to the A/S game? I know DL'd guys get in semi-often, but AAAA players?

vtmet
Jun 21 2013 08:53 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ceetar wrote:
honestly I wouldn't be surprised tosee him back if he continue to hit at this rate the next time the Mets are home.


it took a few times of reading the sentence trying to figure out what the hell does "tosee" mean before my brain finally caught on that you meant "to see"...lol

vtmet
Jun 21 2013 08:58 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

metsguyinmichigan wrote:
Big Pelf has a 6.40 era and is 3-6. Did they make the right call on that one?


Citi Field is about the only thing that made Pelfrey appear to be a semi-decent pitcher...he obviously isn't as fortunate to be calling Minnesota home...he probably should have chosen a place like San Diego, Seattle or Miami to continue his mirage of being a MLB caliber pitcher...

Ceetar
Jun 21 2013 09:18 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

vtmet wrote:
metsguyinmichigan wrote:
Big Pelf has a 6.40 era and is 3-6. Did they make the right call on that one?


Citi Field is about the only thing that made Pelfrey appear to be a semi-decent pitcher...he obviously isn't as fortunate to be calling Minnesota home...he probably should have chosen a place like San Diego, Seattle or Miami to continue his mirage of being a MLB caliber pitcher...


I disagree on the park factor thing, and I think he'll settle in, I think he's suffering from the missing a year thing.

But they made the right call because at the time they made the decision it was unlikely he was going to pitch to start the season, and if you needed a fallback plan you might as well just pick a main plan and move on for the arb money.

But i'm starting to think it's worth it to keep guys like Pelfrey and Byrdak around who seem to heal from injuries remarkably fast and at least trend towards overall health. Mets are hoping to have five starters better than Pelfrey, but for many teams an average ish pitcher like Pelfrey who you don't have to worry (well, only barely have to worry, he's still a pitcher) much about not being there is a nice thing to have.

vtmet
Jun 21 2013 10:00 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ceetar wrote:
Big Pelf has a 6.40 era and is 3-6. Did they make the right call on that one?


Citi Field is about the only thing that made Pelfrey appear to be a semi-decent pitcher...he obviously isn't as fortunate to be calling Minnesota home...he probably should have chosen a place like San Diego, Seattle or Miami to continue his mirage of being a MLB caliber pitcher...


I disagree on the park factor thing, and I think he'll settle in, I think he's suffering from the missing a year thing.

...


like a lot of Mets pitchers, he had huge home/road splits...

2010-2012 (Espn does a last 3 seasons split option):
home: 3.27 ERA; 13-8 record; .257 batting average against; 11 Homeruns; 231 innings;
road: 5.13 ERA; 9-14 record; .310 BAA; 22 HRs; 186 innings;

2009:
home: 3.72 ERA; 6-5 record; .271 BAA; 6 HRs; 104 innings;
road: 6.72 ERA; 4-7 record; .310 BAA; 12 HRs; 80 innings;

2008:
home (Shea): 3.02 ERA; 8-7 record; .248 BAA; 6 HRs; 119 innings;
road: 4.76 ERA; .314 BAA; 6 HRs; 81 innings;

this season, he's once again putting up a road BAA of .310+ (.315 to be exact)...but he's also putting up a crappy Home BAA of .326...a pitcher can't expect to survive putting up a .300+ BAA...that is well above league average...

Frayed Knot
Jun 21 2013 11:41 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Like I said, let's see Ike keep this up for a few weeks at least before we think about bringing him back up. Post-ASB should be the earliest IMO.
Plus it gives the OF roster a few spins around to see how things shape up and shake out. Somebody's got to go when Davis gets back (cuz Duda headed back to LF) and you'd like to see someone or several someones step up and earn the right to stay in CF & RF.

Zvon
Jun 21 2013 03:33 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I figure Ike has learned at least one thing. How fast he can be swept under the rug and become a thing of the past. That's baseball Ike. So get your shit together and be part of the future.

Ashie62
Jun 21 2013 05:22 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Duda looks good at 1B

smg58
Jun 21 2013 07:11 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?

Swan Swan H
Jun 21 2013 07:15 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

smg58 wrote:
The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?


I think it means that it took a shock to his system before he started to listen to anyone.

Ceetar
Jun 21 2013 07:16 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Swan Swan H wrote:
smg58 wrote:
The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?


I think it means that it took a shock to his system before he started to listen to anyone.



well, there were like 45 billion people suggesting things, plus the level of competition, and park factors (Remember he was flying out to deep center quite a lot the last month or so)

vtmet
Jun 21 2013 07:33 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

smg58 wrote:
The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?


IMO, it says that they are either confusing the shit out of him; or shooting him in the foot with the "work the count" approach...some guys are great at hitting behind in the count, and some guys (for example, guys with long swings) are not...Ike is not a guy that should be trying to hit 0-2, 1-2, 2-2...

I would imagine that other teams do scouting reports that show that the Mets like to take a lot of pitches; and the same scouting reports probably also tell them that the guy with monster power was batting .143 with a .357 OPS on an 0-1 count & .138 with a .395 OPS after a 0-1 count...

by the way...Ike is a career .300 hitter with a .700 Slugging Percentage on the first pitch of the at bat (19 Homeruns, 17 doubles and 1 triple)...

Zvon
Jun 21 2013 07:42 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

smg58 wrote:
The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?


Rightly I don't think they should be working out his hitch on the MLB level. I think every coach who ever saw him would want to eliminate, or tone down, the hitch. He came up hitting very well initially. That made it harder to address changes when he stopped hitting well.

Keith believed that a hitch is not a bad thing, and many HOF'rs had one. But the fact is Ikes hitch was way to big and loopy.

Frayed Knot
Jun 21 2013 07:52 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Swan Swan H wrote:
smg58 wrote:
The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?


I think it means that it took a shock to his system before he started to listen to anyone.


Also means that AAA pitching is easier to hit than ML pitching and that Vegas is a better hitting environment than the near sea-level of NYC and many of the other NL parks.
And again, let's not treat a few good games like it's a cure from Miracle Max.

Swan Swan H
Jun 21 2013 08:01 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
Swan Swan H wrote:
smg58 wrote:
The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?


I think it means that it took a shock to his system before he started to listen to anyone.


Also means that AAA pitching is easier to hit than ML pitching and that Vegas is a better hitting environment than the near sea-level of NYC and many of the other NL parks.
And again, let's not treat a few good games like it's a cure from Miracle Max.


Have fun storming the minors!

smg58
Jun 22 2013 05:17 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Two more home runs yesterday.

Centerfield
Jun 22 2013 05:34 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
Swan Swan H wrote:
smg58 wrote:
The downside to this is if the coaching staff in Vegas can straighten Ike out in a week, what does it say about the coaching staff in Flushing?


I think it means that it took a shock to his system before he started to listen to anyone.


Also means that AAA pitching is easier to hit than ML pitching and that Vegas is a better hitting environment than the near sea-level of NYC and many of the other NL parks.
And again, let's not treat a few good games like it's a cure from Miracle Max.


All true. But still encouraging. A few weeks ago, Ike couldn't hit a HR in a stadium on the moon.

batmagadanleadoff
Jun 25 2013 09:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Another day. Another PCL homer for Ike.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... -scoreless

batmagadanleadoff
Jun 25 2013 02:29 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

51?s Ike Davis Named PCL Player of the Week

Ashie62
Jun 25 2013 04:44 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

24 hour gambling can help a guy hit better...

bmfc1
Jul 04 2013 07:54 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Twitter says that Ike is being recalled. No corresponding move yet. If he's coming back, he should play but the Mets have a hot hitting 1B at the moment.

Edgy MD
Jul 04 2013 08:26 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Always room for both.

Swan Swan H
Jul 05 2013 08:37 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I smell a trade. If they were sending someone down, why not just do it already?

Edgy MD
Jul 05 2013 08:40 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, who replaced Lyon?

Swan Swan H
Jul 05 2013 08:41 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:
Well, who replaced Lyon?


Burke

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 05 2013 08:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Burke, wasn't it?

Swan Swan H
Jul 05 2013 08:45 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I could easily be overthinking this. They may just want to take a health check of the bullpen at 6 PM local time, then either remove German from the roster if he's not needed, or offload a position player.

Ashie62
Jul 05 2013 11:21 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I wouldnt mind if Lyon went DFA..

Ashie62
Jul 05 2013 11:25 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ashie62 wrote:
I wouldnt mind if Lyon went DFA..


oh...they did

Ashie62
Jul 05 2013 11:26 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Satin is going to get screwed....

Edgy MD
Jul 05 2013 11:32 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Big pinky bet says Satin stays.

batmagadanleadoff
Jul 05 2013 11:34 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Everyone's favorite writer is back from vacation.
Summary: (Davis to return; The Mets still suck).
_____________________________________

Ike Davis Returns!
05 July 2013, 12:07 pm by Howard Megdal

So the Mets, less than a month after dispatching Ike Davis to Las Vegas, have recalled him.
He hit seven home runs in 92 at-bats there, but really, it is impossible to evaluate hitters and pitchers on numbers alone in Las Vegas, given the huge pro-hitting advantage of the ballpark, and the Pacific Coast League in general.
Two possible reasons for Davis getting promoted:

1. The Mets see something that has [them] convinced he’s fixed.
2. The Mets know they have to find out what Davis can [do] as they plan for 2014, so here goes nothing!

Reason one doesn’t guarantee success. Reason two doesn’t guarantee failure.

But Josh Satin, even in the eyes of his most ardent supporters, doesn’t look like the future at first base, not at 28, with that lack of power. And there isn’t an obvious first baseman elsewhere in the organization until you get to the just-drafted Dominic Smith, who is a good distance away. (Think 2017.)

So sure, bring Davis up, and figure out if the Mets need a first baseman, shortstop, three outfielders and possibly a catcher this offseason, or, you know, just all those other things, but not a first baseman.


http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2013/07/05/i ... s-returns/

Swan Swan H
Jul 05 2013 12:04 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yeah, I saw his vacation pictures on Facebook:

Edgy MD
Jul 05 2013 12:05 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yeah, I was thinking what thrilling vacation that must've been.

Edgy MD
Jul 05 2013 12:46 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Big pinky bet says Satin stays.

On the other hand, Terry says there won't be a platoon, but Jordany has had little opportunity and littler success the last four weeks or so.

April: .255 / .293 / .382 // .675 in 58 PA
May: .138 / .286 / .345 // .631 in 35 PA
June: .167 / .205 / .262 // .466 in 44 PA
July: .000 / .000 / .000 // .000 in 4 PA



(Nicholas Cage winning an Oscar. Snort! Those funny photoshops you find on the internet.)

Ashie62
Jul 05 2013 05:08 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I would prefer Satin to continue on and start at 1B with the Mets..

Edgy MD
Jul 05 2013 07:23 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, he's continuing on.

Swan Swan H
Jul 05 2013 08:05 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

If Davey Johnson were alive today he'd start Satin at 3B and move Wright to SS when Marcum pitches (0.54 GB/FB ratio, one of the lowest in the majors.

batmagadanleadoff
Jul 06 2013 01:55 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike



A Disease Without a Cure Spreads Quietly in the West


Joe Klorman, a retired police officer, before treatment for a severe case of valley fever that affects his brain.


By PATRICIA LEIGH BROWN
Published: July 4, 2013

BAKERSFIELD, Calif. — In 36 years with the Los Angeles police, Sgt. Irwin Klorman faced many dangerous situations, including one routine call that ended with Uzi fire and a bullet-riddled body sprawled on the living room floor.

But his most life-threatening encounter has been with coccidioidomycosis, or valley fever, for which he is being treated here. Coccidioidomycosis, known as “cocci,” is an insidious airborne fungal disease in which microscopic spores in the soil take flight on the wind or even a mild breeze to lodge in the moist habitat of the lungs and, in the most extreme instances, spread to the bones, the skin, the eyes or, in Mr. Klorman’s case, the brain.

The infection, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has labeled “a silent epidemic,” is striking more people each year, with more than 20,000 reported cases annually throughout the Southwest, especially in California and Arizona. Although most people exposed to the fungus do not fall ill, about 160 die from it each year, with thousands more facing years of disability and surgery. About 9 percent of those infected will contract pneumonia and 1 percent will experience serious complications beyond the lungs.

The disease is named for the San Joaquin Valley, a cocci hot spot, where the same soil that produces the state’s agricultural bounty can turn traitorous. The “silent epidemic” became less silent last week when a federal judge ordered the state to transfer about 2,600 vulnerable inmates — including some with H.I.V. — out of two of the valley’s eight state prisons, about 90 miles north of here. In 2011, those prisons, Avenal and Pleasant Valley, produced 535 of the 640 reported inmate cocci cases, and throughout the system, yearly costs for hospitalization for cocci exceed $23 million.

The transfer, affecting about a third of the two prisons’ combined population, is to be completed in 90 days, a challenge to a prison system already contending with a federal mandate to reduce overcrowding. Jose Antonio Diaz, 44, who has diabetes and was recently relocated to Avenal, is feeling “very scared of catching it,” said his wife, Suzanne Moreno.

Advocates for prisoners have criticized state agencies for not moving the inmates sooner. “If this were a factory, a public university or a hotel — anything except a prison — they would shut these two places down,” said Donald Specter, the executive director of the Prison Law Office, which provides free legal assistance to inmates.

The pending transfer has underscored the complexities and mysteries of a disease that continues to baffle physicians and scientists. In Arizona, a study from the Department of Health Services showed a 25 percent risk of African-Americans with newly diagnosed valley fever developing complications, compared with 6 percent of whites.

“The working hypothesis has to do with genetic susceptibility, probably the interrelationships of genes involved in the immune system,” said Dr. John N. Galgiani, a professor at the University of Arizona and the director of the Valley Fever Center for Excellence, founded in 1996. “But which ones? We’re clueless.”

Kandis Watson, whose son Kaden, 8, almost died, had a gut feeling that “something was not right,” she said, when Kaden began feeling sick two years ago. The pediatrician prescribed antibiotics, but Kaden’s health deteriorated, with a golf ball-size mass developing at the base of his neck. The infection enveloped Kaden’s chest, narrowing his trachea.

Kaden was essentially breathing through an opening the size of a straw, said Dr. James M. McCarty, the medical director of pediatric infectious diseases at Children’s Hospital Central California in Madera, where Kaden spent six months. Today the boy is back to his mischievous self, surreptitiously placing a green plastic lizard in his mother’s hair.

But how he contracted valley fever is still guesswork. “I think he got it being a boy, digging in the dirt,” Mrs. Watson said.

Kern County, where Bakersfield is located, had more than 1,800 reported cases last year. At Kern Medical Center, Dr. Royce H. Johnson and his colleagues have a roster of nearly 2,000 patients. Many, like Mr. Klorman, have life-threatening cocci meningitis.

“I got a bad break,” said Mr. Klorman, who is known as Joe. Until illness forced his retirement, he preferred a squad car to a desk job. Now he travels four hours round trip three times a week so Dr. Johnson can inject a powerful antifungal drug into his spinal fluid. In other patients, the disease has been known to eat away ribs and vertebrae.

“It destroys lives,” said Dr. Johnson, whose daughter contracted a mild form. “Divorces, lost jobs and bankruptcy are incredibly common, not to mention psychological dislocation.”

Once athletic, Deandre Zillendor, 38, dropped to 145 pounds from 220 in two weeks, and lesions erupted on his face and body. “You keep it forever, like luggage,” he said of the disease.

Todd Schaefer, 48, who produces award-winning pinot noirs in Paso Robles, was told by his doctors that he had 10 years to live. That was 10 years ago. But valley fever has disseminated into his spinal column and brain, and his conversation is interrupted by grimaces of pain. Ruggedly handsome, he still outwardly resembles the archetype of the California good life. But Mr. Schaefer has had a stroke, a hole in his lung, two serious heart episodes and relapses that “put me on the edge of life,” he said.

He believes he got infected with valley fever atop a tractor during the construction of Pacific Coast Vineyards, which he runs with his wife, Tammy. One doctor initially suggested bed rest, chicken soup and cranberry juice.

Today Mr. Schaefer can no longer can drink wine, and he begins every morning retching. “I told her to leave me,” he said at one low point, of his wife, who is 37. “She’s too young, too beautiful.”

Dr. Benjamin Park, a medical officer with the C.D.C., said that the numbers of cases are “under-estimates” because some states do not require public reporting. They include Texas, where valley fever is endemic along the Rio Grande. In New Mexico, a 2010 survey of doctors and clinics by the state’s public health department revealed that 69 percent of clinicians did not consider it in patients with respiratory problems.

Numbers spike when rainfall is followed by dry spells. Many scientists believe that the uptick in infections is related to changing climate patterns. Kenneth K. Komatsu, the state epidemiologist for Arizona, where 13,000 cases were reported last year, said that another factor may be urban sprawl: “digging up rural areas where valley fever is growing in the soil,” he said.

In Avenal, citizens have become activists, looking into possible environmental factors, including a regional landfill that accepts construction waste. Three of the four children of James McGee, a teacher, have contracted the disease, including Marivi, 17, who was found convulsing in the ladies’ room at school. Dr. McCarty of Children’s Hospital is seeing an increasing number of children from Avenal.

Valley fever was a familiar presence during the Dust Bowl, and in Japanese internment camps throughout the arid West. Yet there is still no cure, and research on a fungicide and a potential vaccine have been stalled by financing issues. One company, Nielsen Biosciences Inc., has developed a skin test to identify cocci but has not yet been able to make it financially viable.

Part of the difficulty is that cocci is “a hundred different diseases,” Dr. Johnson said, depending on where in the body it nests. His patients include farm workers, oil field workers and construction workers.

One of his patients, Barbara Ludy, 61, had a job that involved taking care of a man who is quadriplegic. She was strong enough to lift his 175-pound frame, plus his wheelchair, into a van. Cocci meningitis affected her ability to think, to remember, to walk, to live independently. When her weight dropped to 71 pounds, her distraught daughters went to Goodwill to buy their mother size zero clothes.

One daughter, Jennifer Gillet, now takes care of her mother full time. Ms. Ludy is recuperating, slowly. And things are looking up: She is now a size 10.



Barbara Ludy can no longer work because of the disease


The disease puts Todd Schaefer in pain every day.


Mr. Schaefer, 48, has had serious heart
problems, and can no longer drink the wine he
and his wife, Tammy, produce.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/healt ... d=all&_r=0

Swan Swan H
Jul 07 2013 07:42 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

According to this piece in Newsday, Jeff Wiilpon visited Ike Davis in Las Vegas to give him the old hang-in-there.

Lefty Specialist
Jul 07 2013 10:26 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Swan Swan H wrote:
According to this piece in Newsday, Jeff Wiilpon visited Ike Davis in Las Vegas to give him the old hang-in-there.



Wonder if Fred visited Bernie Madoff in prison and gave him a big 'hang in there', too....

dinosaur jesus
Jul 07 2013 10:52 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Here's what Ike found on his locker after the game. Never say the Wilpons don't care.

Edgy MD
Jul 07 2013 12:14 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Nice of the kitty to sign the poster.

Hey, check it out. He's over .170.

.171 / .261 / .264 // .526

The upside of a dreadful start is that you can raise your average with a simple 1-4. Or, in Ike's case, a disappointing 1-5 will still tweak it upward.

Zvon
Jul 07 2013 02:36 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

dinosaur jesus wrote:
Here's what Ike found on his locker after the game. Never say the Wilpons don't care.



Fred and Jeffs autographs are worth shit.


There. Now its worth something.

themetfairy
Jul 07 2013 02:39 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

:)

seawolf17
Jul 07 2013 03:33 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Outstanding.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 07 2013 04:11 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I would have signed it!


(Nice job! :) )

bmfc1
Jul 07 2013 04:12 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Tremendous.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jul 24 2013 08:07 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I dunno about you guys, but I felt like Ike all but earned another trip to Vegas with the ineffective bunting crap last night. Fortunately, he realized that smashing balls off the fence was more effective. Or did he?

From Mike Kerwick's game story:

Davis’ double ignited a three-run rally as the Mets picked up a 4-1 victory over the Atlanta Braves in front of 24,355 on Tuesday night at Citi Field.

“It definitely felt great to get a hit off a curveball and definitely [felt great] to get the winning run across the plate,” Davis said. “And to drive a ball. I haven’t driven a ball in a while.”

When Davis was asked about that second-inning bunt attempt, he meandered into dangerous territory, issuing responses that were certain to poke and prod at his team’s fan base.

On bunting: “I’m going to do it more often. I mean, I get out a lot anyway, so I might as well give it a try. If I get it down in the right spot, it’s a hit.”

On the crowd’s response to his bunt attempt: “The crowd gets on me no matter what. If I take a pitch [for a] strike, it’s a boo. So it doesn’t really matter. It was a smart attempt, I just didn’t execute the bunt. And it’s fun for them.”

On his reaction to the crowd: “I’m just going with I’m [viewed as] an away player now. The boos don’t really affect me.”

Davis’ string of comments arrived exactly 30 minutes after manager Terry Collins told reporters, “If I ever ask Ike Davis to bunt, come down and get me.” Collins said he understood his first baseman’s decision-making process, but made it clear the decision did not come from the dugout.

“Ike’s just trying to get on base,” Collins said. “And I will tell you, he’s going to see it again. And if you want to bunt, go ahead and bunt.”


- See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/sports/Ike_D ... vtyOS.dpuf

Swan Swan H
Jul 24 2013 08:12 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I've never really played baseball on a competitive level, but it seems to me that taking a little pepper swing and poking the ball toward third base would be easier than trying to bunt it, especially for a guy that never bunts.

Ceetar
Jul 24 2013 08:13 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

how many times do we get on guys like Carlos Delgado for not dropping down a bunt in the obvious 'free base' situations. (But Ike, practice will ya?)

It's a GREAT idea. Don't pass up free bases if you can make it work, PLUS it affects your spray chart, meaning the more you do it, the less they overshift you, the more you can take real swings and get hits otherwise neutralized by the shift.

Edgy MD
Jul 24 2013 08:14 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I like to think he's being flip as a way of being provocative and having fun.

Last year, as his early season slump wore on, he provoked some of the writers --- "When are you going to write that I suck? When are you going to demand I be sent to Buffalo?" Strange but... whatever works for you. Keeps you centered and stuff.

Aside from the comments, I have no problems with sluggos who bunt for hits.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jul 24 2013 08:16 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

You are great with the magical thinking, Ceets. Bunting vs. the shift is great idea IF you make it. Neiuwenhuis is a great choice to hit against a lefty pitcher IF he gets on.

There's a reason they are also dumb choices, you know.

Ceetar
Jul 24 2013 08:18 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
You are great with the magical thinking, Ceets. Bunting vs. the shift is great idea IF you make it. Neiuwenhuis is a great choice to hit against a lefty pitcher IF he gets on.

There's a reason they are also dumb choices, you know.


If it works 4 times in 10, it's a fantastic idea.

The Kirk choice was something completely different, doesn't compare.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jul 24 2013 08:22 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ike Davis isn't a .400 hitter.

Ceetar
Jul 24 2013 08:27 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Ike Davis isn't a .400 hitter.


which is why if merely 4 of the bunts worked out of 10, it'd be fantastic and a probably a better option than swinging.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jul 24 2013 08:30 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

/smashes head

Why would you imagine Ike Davis is a .400 bunter? Is there any evidence to support that?

Vic Sage
Jul 24 2013 08:31 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

he's not even a .200 hitter.

On the crowd’s response to his bunt attempt: “The crowd gets on me no matter what. If I take a pitch [for a] strike, it’s a boo. So it doesn’t really matter. It was a smart attempt, I just didn’t execute the bunt. And it’s fun for them.”


What does he mean "it's fun for them"?" Fun? FUN? FUN?FUN?

Yeah, there's no part of watching Ike Davis play baseball this year that could even generously be considered "fun".

metirish
Jul 24 2013 08:33 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It might be a better option for Ike only because he's a squinty eyed useless hitter right now....I don't remember getting on Delgado for not dropping down a bunt.....I have a vague memory of him doing it once though.


Delgado is one one the all time great sluggers....Ike is a squinty eyed useless hitter.

Ceetar
Jul 24 2013 08:33 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
/smashes head

Why would you imagine Ike Davis is a .400 bunter? Is there any evidence to support that?


There's no evidence at all to say anything at all about it. If they're over-shifting and he can do it, then HE SHOULD DO IT. If he can't, then he shouldn't, obviously. Last night wasn't a good attempt, but the logic of his quote is sound.

Centerfield
Jul 24 2013 08:41 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

If you bunt you obviously cannot get an extra base hit, so the OBP would have to be significantly higher than a regular swing to make it a worthwhile gamble.

I didn't see last night's bunt attempt, so I have no idea if he can do it or not. But if he has decent bunting ability, then he should give it a try. I think it will definitely make teams think twice about overshifting.

But if he sucks, he should give it up.

In theory, I don't have a problem with bunting to try to get hits. I have a problem with bunts designed to make outs.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jul 24 2013 08:47 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The attempt was pathetic. He squared so early the fielders were already in motion by the time he fouled off his first attempt.

He then bunted the next pitch directly to the pitcher who retired him at first base easily.

There was also one out at the time, so even if he were successful he was looking at two batters to get him around to score, and just daring Buck to hit into a double play.

It was an OK idea, but badly executed, and his next trip showed why.

Centerfield
Jul 24 2013 08:58 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yeah, Ike and the coaching staff have to be able to judge whether or not he can do it. Bunting back to the pitcher is suicide. He has to push it along the third base line so that it's either a hit or a foul ball.

Maybe they weren't booing his idea to bunt, but the fact that he sucks at doing it.

Vic Sage
Jul 24 2013 09:03 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

while i agree with CF's post above, there are a few other factors to consider.

If you are a slow-footed slugger and a major RBI guy in a lineup, and you're hitting 4th-7th with not a lot of lumber coming up behind you (not an uncommon lineup situation), then the bunt not only robs the team of an opportunity for an extra based hit, it's a strategy that, even if successful, leaves the RBI to be picked up by the weakest bats in the lineup, who'll have to hit XBH because of the slugger's lack of speed. So not only does the OBP on the bunt play have to be huge to make up for the loss of SLG, there have to be some SLG bats behind him to drive him in, to have it make any sense at all.

Now in this case, Davis currently can't hit water when falling out of a boat, and he had hot hitters with power in Buck and Legares hitting behind him, so fair enough. But as a general strategy, i think it sucks, even when successful, which I think is considerably less often than we'd hope or imagine. A guy who may not have had to bunt for a hit since HS is just not going to have the technique to do it successfully with anything approaching the percentage necessary to justify it in the first place. As for its effect on the shift, I think it would be negligible due to the play's relatively high failure rate, BUT mostly due to the fact that THE OTHER TEAM WANTS YOUR HR HITTER TO BUNT! If your 30HR guy wants to swallow his bat, the other team will simply say "thank you sir, may i have another".

Ike's problems aren't the "shift". Its the fact that he can't hit for shit, i think, that's having the more significant impact.

Edgy MD
Jul 24 2013 09:12 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Unfortunately, with all the stats available to us, we don't have any readily available data on the success rate of folks bunting for a hit, or much on the success rate of guys bunting for a sacrifice even. So the argument is largely framed for all sides within the realm of speculation.

Ashie62
Jul 24 2013 10:15 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It may be irrelevant when Dooder takes over 1B...

Edgy MD
Jul 24 2013 10:16 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It's relevant to last night which is what we're talking about. And it's not like Duda has made a case to be a fixture either.

Steve Garvey had a book that was his recipe for getting 200 hits per year. He wanted to be sure he had a certain number of hits each month that went to the opposite field, a certain number that he would get by bunting, a certain number for extra bases, etc. If it was a few weeks into the month and he was short in one department, he'd focus on that.

Now Garvey was a tool and all, but the logic is sound. By broadening the scope of the number of ways he could get you, he kept the pitcher and defense honest, and didn't allow them to get away with one way of going after him.

metirish
Aug 05 2013 06:18 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

So anyway, my sister and her husband joined us for the game yesterday....she works in the bar scene in NYC, has for many years and knows most of the owners etc. Her very good friend is a barman at a well known Irish bar in the 60's on 1st. Ike is a regular there, not long after getting called back up he was on an almighty session, Guinness and Jamenson until 5am in the morning, and it wasn't the ASG weekend.....now, maybe they were not playing on the Monday, maybe there was a lefty going so he thinks he wouldn't be playing but if you are drinking that much it's taking several days to recover....let's say Ike is very well known the pub.

Frayed Knot
Aug 05 2013 06:38 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, this isn't the first time that's been suggested.
There was some veiled allusion, back in ST I think, that NYM mgmt was somewhat leery of Ike's possible "influence on younger players", or some words to that effect. That statement didn't specifically mention drinking but it certainly gave the impression that that was a possibility.

Ceetar
Aug 05 2013 07:12 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

His numbers are certainly decent to good since his return..so Jameson on I guess. I know more and more ballplayers shift towards "body as a temple" nutrition and fitness diets, but i imagine there are sill hundreds that prefer to go out and party. (Don't bars in NYC close at 4?) Especially since they don't generally go to work until 6 hours after the rest of us.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 05 2013 07:46 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Not 4 nothin but Ike's sucked since coming back. I know he's singling in the 260s and walking his way to a decent OBP but we're also back to losing regularly with him fucking up the lineup.

metirish
Aug 05 2013 07:54 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The law might say 4am but that never stopped an Irish pub from staying open.

Ceetar
Aug 05 2013 08:00 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

He's hitting .261/.420/.377/.797 since being recalled.

and .302/.464/.488/.953 since the break.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 05 2013 08:01 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I know.

He still stinks.

metirish
Aug 05 2013 08:05 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Softest numbers ever , throw them away and look with your eye....he's useless.

Ceetar
Aug 05 2013 08:08 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

they're 14-13 since his recall. They were 12-12 without him.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 05 2013 08:09 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Stinks!

Vic Sage
Aug 05 2013 08:52 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

.302/.464/.488/.953 since the break

That's about 60 PAs, during which he's had 1 HR and 5 2B and 7 RBI.
So, first of all, if this is the guy you're counting on to provided power to the middle of your lineup, you are good and truly fucked.
Secondly, any projection or assessment of his future production or value based on such a limited sample size is foolish.

But you did the same thing with Lagares in the other thread, where you said about his turnaround over the last month:
Yeah, it's gone on a little too long for me to doubt now.

Too long for doubt? No, he just had an excellent July. There's PLENTY of room for doubt.

Ceetar
Aug 05 2013 09:01 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Vic Sage wrote:
.302/.464/.488/.953 since the break

That's about 60 PAs, during which he's had 1 HR and 5 2B and 7 RBI.
So, first of all, if this is the guy you're counting on to provided power to the middle of your lineup, you are good and truly fucked.
Secondly, any projection or assessment of his future production or value based on such a limited sample size is foolish.

But you did the same thing with Lagares in the other thread, where you said about his turnaround over the last month:
Yeah, it's gone on a little too long for me to doubt now.

Too long for doubt? No, he just had an excellent July. There's PLENTY of room for doubt.


first of all, 6 XBH is good. (projects to 60ish over a full season. That's good. And more of the doubles will shake out as HR) 7 RBI is irrelevant. The first sample is a bigger sample too, where he's been on base .420. Which is very very good. It represents not swinging at crap and getting himself out. Maintain that and he should start getting some better pitches to hit, which might the .488 SLG in the second more recent sample might represent. Yes, it's a small sample, but in the biggest sample he's shown ability and if this recent stretch is a sign he's getting back to that, it's meaningful in that regard.

Not doubting Lagares is a major leaguer is a long way from believing he's the answer in CF next year.

metirish
Aug 05 2013 09:03 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

And more of the doubles will shake out as HR)


That's gold right there...another Jamenson for that man please.

Ceetar
Aug 05 2013 09:19 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

metirish wrote:
And more of the doubles will shake out as HR)


That's gold right there...another Jamenson for that man please.


Park factors, and things like if he pulls it a little more versus driving it into the gap. Where the pitch is in the strikezone when he turns on it, etc. All factors in turning doubles into home runs. (or vice versa)

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 05 2013 09:33 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

He puts the I-K-E into StInKiEst.

batmagadanleadoff
Aug 14 2013 05:37 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Believe It Or Not: Ike Davis
By Mark Simon | ESPNNewYork.com


Should the Mets believe in the long-term prospects of Ike Davis?

For the next three days, we’re going to write about Mets who have performed well recently, taking a closer look at their strengths and weaknesses, then get a scout’s perspective on a longer-term outlook for that player. Yesterday, we wrote about Juan Lagares Today’s piece focuses on Ike Davis.

Believe It ...
Davis’ overall body of work shows promise, though most of that came in the earliest stages of his career. In each of the last two spring trainings, Davis has impressed and flashes of that show up from time to time, like last season, when he clubbed 20 homers in 251 at-bats after the All-Star Break, and since his recall from Las Vegas, in which he has a .478 on-base percentage and a .920 OPS.

Ike Davis in 2013
Before Demotion Since Recall
BA .161 .302
OBP .242 .478
Slug pct .258 .442
Chase Rate 23% 17%
Miss Rate 33% 20%

The biggest positive for Davis since his recall has been the drop in both his chase rate (how often he swings at pitches thrown out of the strike zone) and his miss rate (how often he misses on his swings).

We’ve noted those in the chart [above].

Davis has also shown himself to be a competent, if not slightly above average defender at first base, based on advanced defensive metrics, though he’s yet to be as good as his rookie season, when he had 10 Defensive Runs Saved.

... Or Not
Davis has had not one but two bad multi-month stretches, one in each of the last two seasons. Those have been highlighted by wild swings and misses, sometimes on pitches that look like they’re going to hit him.

This recent run of success has been an odd one. His only homer during this stretch came against the Nationals in a game the Mets were winning 8-0 at the time. He does have nine doubles, but a bunch of those have been bloops rather than the potential long balls that fans grew used to seeing.

We utilize a video-review service that rates every batted ball as being either “hard-hit,” “medium-hit,” or “soft-hit” (several major league teams use either this service or others). Davis’ rate of balls hit that were classified as “hard-hit” prior to his demotion was 14.9 percent.

With an increase in performance since his return, you’d expect that number to go up a little bit, but it’s actually about the same, 14.5 percent. His season rate is 14.8 percent -- the same as New York Yankees reserve infielder Jayson Nix.

Scout’s Take
The scout we spoke to acknowledged not having seen Davis much during this hot streak, but he wasn’t sold on what he did see.

“Ike needs to reinvent himself as a hitter. I know he’s not chasing as much lately. But my concern for him is that every pitch, whether he’s taking it or at the point of contact, he never looks balanced. He can hit the ball on the screws and still look like he’s early or late. I would not bet on him lasting on that. If he can keep doing what he’s doing and have a 10-year career, God bless him.”


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... -ike-davis

metirish
Aug 14 2013 05:50 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

The scout we spoke to acknowledged not having seen Davis much during this hot streak,


Kind of kills the whole piece for me......

Ceetar
Aug 14 2013 06:32 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

metirish wrote:
The scout we spoke to acknowledged not having seen Davis much during this hot streak,


Kind of kills the whole piece for me......


yeah, immediately makes me dismiss the next couple of sentences. There's a lot to be said for a guy using the stance and form that feels natural to him. Just because he doesn't look like how others look (or how other players you've decided are similar look) doesn't mean it won't work.

But what I wrote in the comments of that article stands: (looking now, my comment is not there. odd)

Pitchers will adjust to Ike, and he'll have to make a choice of either staying with the program and waiting for his pitch (And resulting in more strikeouts) or start expanding his zone again which will lead to more flailing and more missing his pitches when he gets them in bad counts. THAT is what the Mets need to see from Ike. From the eye, he's worked a couple of 0-2 counts for walks and hits and such, instead of the insta-flail at the next pitch for an out that he did prior. If he can maintain that, even if that 0-2 pitch nips a corner or is a nasty slider on the (bigger to lefties!) just off the outside corner, then there is some hope.

Davis has gone through some really really bad stretches, but he's also made adjustments that had him as an All-Star level player afterwards. Making those adjustments counts for something, and shouldn't be summarily dismissed.

Ashie62
Aug 14 2013 06:36 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I must have missed Ike's hot streak..

Nymr83
Aug 14 2013 07:04 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ashie62 wrote:
I must have missed Ike's hot streak..


smoke-and-mirrors streak really

[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/75349/believe-it-or-not-ike-davis

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 14 2013 08:08 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

That he's willing to make adjustments is good.

That he's unable or unwilling to make any corrective adjustments until, say, his slumps hit a month or two, and plumb depths unreached by a sociopath mid-'70s Zeppelin roadie on bennies... doesn't bode quite as well.

Ceetar
Aug 14 2013 08:32 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
That he's willing to make adjustments is good.

That he's unable or unwilling to make any corrective adjustments until, say, his slumps hit a month or two, and plumb depths unreached by a sociopath mid-'70s Zeppelin roadie on bennies... doesn't bode quite as well.


or perhaps the adjustments didn't take. It's not like he wasn't trying things earlier.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 14 2013 09:52 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I don't believe the Mets can go into another season -- particularly one where they intend on contending -- hoping he doesn't doom us to irrelevancy by May again. Either he has to go, or the team needs the kind of depth to bat him 8th on opening day.

Edgy MD
Aug 15 2013 12:03 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Well, if he's productive enough going forward to seduce the Mets into returning him in 2014, maybe they open the season with a plan B firmly in place.

Back in 2010, Daniel Murphy was an effective plan C or D after Mike Jacobs crapped out early, and maybe he's an effective backup plan for 2014. Start him at second and move him to first if Ike flatlines, adding Flores at second. Else, maybe Flores could be Plan B and go directly to first.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 15 2013 04:24 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
I don't believe the Mets can go into another season -- particularly one where they intend on contending -- hoping he doesn't doom us to irrelevancy by May again. Either he has to go, or the team needs the kind of depth to bat him 8th on opening day.


I agree. I've been a big fan of Ike, and had high hopes for him. But enough is enough. It's time to go in another direction.

Edgy MD
Aug 15 2013 07:31 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I just like the idea of not giving Flores a position, but making him take one away from somebody. Maybe that's Ike. Maybe, indeed, that happens this year.

dgwphotography
Aug 15 2013 07:57 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:
I just like the idea of not giving Flores a position, but making him take one away from somebody. Maybe that's Ike. Maybe, indeed, that happens this year.


I was up for a Duda/Satin platoon at first, but this works, too.

Centerfield
Aug 15 2013 11:46 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

How much money do they expect Ike to make in arbitration? Isn't it supposed to be based on how good you are? We should make the arbitrator sit through some of his May at-bats.

I have no issue with bringing him back (so long as there are options, such as Duda/Satin/Flores). I agree though that we can't count on him to be a middle of the lineup threat any longer.

Ceetar
Aug 15 2013 12:01 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Centerfield wrote:
How much money do they expect Ike to make in arbitration? Isn't it supposed to be based on how good you are? We should make the arbitrator sit through some of his May at-bats.

I have no issue with bringing him back (so long as there are options, such as Duda/Satin/Flores). I agree though that we can't count on him to be a middle of the lineup threat any longer.


who knows with arbitrators. probably not that much of a raise, and Mets tend to almost always come to terms with these guys anyway, so despite the amount of bytes going to be contributed to how much he makes, it's really not that big a worry.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 15 2013 12:16 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I can't imagine that Ike will get too big a number in arbitration. And if he did, the Mets do have the option to release him (or trade him) and not pay the money.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 15 2013 01:03 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Looking at how poorly he's done in the traditional-number categories, barring a giganto home-run/base-hit binge in the last six weeks, I can't imagine Ike would receive a raise, much less a significant raise.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 15 2013 01:08 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I wouldn't think so either, but arbitrators are notoriously unpredictable.

I would hope, though, that Ike and his agent would figure it would be smart enough not to ask for anything too high.

Lefty Specialist
Aug 15 2013 01:49 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It's pretty rare not to get a nice bump in arbitration, no matter how badly you did. He's got non-tender written all over him. Let him annoy some other hitting coach.

smg58
Aug 15 2013 02:12 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I'd give him another year. This Mets team was doomed to irrelevancy before the season started, and they don't have another in-house option at first base with the talent to take the team out of irrelevancy next spring. He's gone several weeks with a near .500 OBP, and I see no reason to dismiss that. The power will come, because eventually pitchers will stop handing him first base and throw him more fastballs.

Edgy MD
Aug 15 2013 02:15 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I disagree that the team was doomed to irrelevancy before the season started.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 15 2013 02:18 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yeah, if Ike Davis were Ike Davis and not some flaily, shitty, hard-drinking Ike Davis we might be relevant right now.

batmagadanleadoff
Aug 15 2013 02:21 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Edgy MD wrote:
I disagree that the team was doomed to irrelevancy before the season started.


Then I'm guessing that you'd probably disagree with what I'm already thinking about next year's Mets.

Frayed Knot
Aug 15 2013 02:23 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Centerfield wrote:
How much money do they expect Ike to make in arbitration? Isn't it supposed to be based on how good you are?


In theory, yes, but simply by moving to the arb-eligible category from the non-arb almost automatically gets a player a bump in pay. The obvious reason is because the club no longer has absolute control over salary, but also because said player is now being compared to players with similar service time who themselves have just gotten (or are about to) a bump from arbitration.
IOW, a good 3rd year player (with the exception of those who have already signed L-T deals) generally makes a lot less than many sucky 4th year guys.

Ceetar
Aug 15 2013 02:27 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

what do second-arb 1Bman generally make? $5ish? Fangraphs had him at worth about $4.9 if you had to buy that via free agency last year. hell, his 36 games the year before were rated even better.

batmagadanleadoff
Aug 15 2013 02:32 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

It remains to be seen how much the Mets invest in their 2014 payroll. Ordinarily, what the current Ike Davis would likely be awarded in a salary arbitration case shouldn't burden the National League franchise from New York City, assuming the franchise wants to retain Ike. But these aren't ordinary times.

Nymr83
Aug 20 2013 10:44 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

I can't imagine that Ike will get too big a number in arbitration. And if he did, the Mets do have the option to release him (or trade him) and not pay the money.


I'm pretty sure once you go to arbitration its a guaranteed contract.

Edgy MD
Aug 21 2013 06:29 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yeah, an offer of arbitration is an offer. Accepting that offer is an agreement. That's certainly my understanding.

Benjamin Grimm
Aug 21 2013 06:41 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Isn't there some rule that says that if a player is released before March 31, the team only has to pay a portion of his contract? Obviously, that doesn't apply to multi-year contacts, but I think it does apply to one-year deals.

It's possible that such a rule, if it ever existed, may no longer be in effect.

Ceetar
Aug 21 2013 07:03 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
Isn't there some rule that says that if a player is released before March 31, the team only has to pay a portion of his contract? Obviously, that doesn't apply to multi-year contacts, but I think it does apply to one-year deals.

It's possible that such a rule, if it ever existed, may no longer be in effect.


There's something like that. It's not the 31st though, it's closer to the 21st. I can't find the specifics in the CBA (although maybe they did get rid of it)

It only applied to a specific type of player, that might've been arbitration (because these guys are still under initial contracts right?) raise guys. It also might only apply to guys that actually get arbitration, because the "agree to terms" thing most teams do to avoid arbitration might be a new contract?

Frayed Knot
Aug 21 2013 07:22 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Teams CAN walk away from arbitrated contracts if they don't like the result. The player then immediately becomes a FA.
It's a somewhat different set of guidelines that governs non-guaranteed invite type of deals where, if a player is released by a certain date they owe him X pct of the amount and by a later but still pre-opening day date they owe him a greater pct.

Ceetar
Aug 21 2013 07:25 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
Teams CAN walk away from arbitrated contracts if they don't like the result. The player then immediately becomes a FA.
It's a somewhat different set of guidelines that governs non-guaranteed invite type of deals where, if a player is released by a certain date they owe him X pct of the amount and by a later but still pre-opening day date they owe him a greater pct.


Yeah, wasn't sure if arbitrated contracts counted as "real" contracts or not, but makes sense that they would. (for all three years? do options matter?)

It's under Termination Pay in the CBA. gotta be before 16 days prior to the start of the season. If it's after that, but still spring training, they get an extra 45 days, and if the season starts, they get termination pay equal to the full year. If the guy has minor league provisions/rate in his contract and is terminated before that day, he only gets the minor league rate.

Frayed Knot
Aug 21 2013 07:34 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Termination pay and arbitration aren't the same thing.

Termination is when a non-guaranteed deal is not picked up after ST has started but prior to OD. The player receives something for his time depending on exactly when he's released.

When a team walks away from arbitration -- either by not offering or by walking away from the result -- it's like no contract ever existed; the player becomes a FA and is free to hunt for a deal elsewhere. I don't believe there's a financial settlement due to the player in this case although I don't claim to be up on all the specifics.

metirish
Aug 21 2013 07:37 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

What kills me about Ike is he'll hit a bomb and I'll get to thinking wow maybe he can figure this out.....but in reality I know he likely won't...it's the hope that kills.

Ceetar
Aug 21 2013 07:45 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Frayed Knot wrote:
Termination pay and arbitration aren't the same thing.

Termination is when a non-guaranteed deal is not picked up after ST has started but prior to OD. The player receives something for his time depending on exactly when he's released.

When a team walks away from arbitration -- either by not offering or by walking away from the result -- it's like no contract ever existed; the player becomes a FA and is free to hunt for a deal elsewhere. I don't believe there's a financial settlement due to the player in this case although I don't claim to be up on all the specifics.


I think there still is..something. But I was more referencing Grimm's question. Arbitration Is decided earlier on in Spring Training.

Frayed Knot
Aug 21 2013 07:58 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Yes, that's why there's a specific window for when arb cases are decided, so that if a team wants to walk away from it the player isn't screwed trying to land another job after rosters have pretty much been set. I believe that once an arb deal is accepted by both sides it becomes guaranteed for the full amount and, even if not, just the fact that a team went to arb with a player in the first place means he's unlikely to be a guy they'd change their mind on before the season even starts.

The non-guaranteed type of deals that fringe or rehabbing players often get (Byrd might have been in this category this past Spring) wouldn't be the ones decided through arbitration and those are the ones that can be terminated closer to OD without the team being on the hook for the entire amount.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 09 2013 11:00 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Do Mets still like Ike?
By AJ Mass | ESPN.com

The New York Mets may well end up deciding that Ike Davis will not be their starting first baseman in 2014. However, they have no interest in simply letting the 26-year-old walk via free agency, with the team getting no compensation in return.


Pay the ESPN insider fee and you can read the rest of the article. I didn't, so I can't.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post?id=7533

HahnSolo
Sep 09 2013 11:22 AM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Brief summary from link: Rubin says team insiders are hinting that they will tender an offer to Davis. Feeling is that doing so would not be too cost prohibitive. This would still leave a trade as a viable option. Mentioned Colorado as a potential partner, as they may be looking to part ways with Todd Helton.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Sep 09 2013 12:50 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

HahnSolo wrote:
Brief summary from link: Rubin says team insiders are hinting that they will tender an offer to Davis. Feeling is that doing so would not be too cost prohibitive. This would still leave a trade as a viable option. Mentioned Colorado as a potential partner, as they may be looking to part ways with Todd Helton.


In exchange for what-- paying his salary and listening to their snickers?

HahnSolo
Sep 09 2013 12:54 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Brief summary from link: Rubin says team insiders are hinting that they will tender an offer to Davis. Feeling is that doing so would not be too cost prohibitive. This would still leave a trade as a viable option. Mentioned Colorado as a potential partner, as they may be looking to part ways with Todd Helton.


In exchange for what-- paying his salary and listening to their snickers?


I didnt take it that they would be looking to move Ike for Helton...just that Helton may be gone and they need someone to replace him. Or more likely, Rubin or his source is just making crap up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Sep 09 2013 12:58 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Ah, yes. This reading comprehension thing, it sometimes eludes me.

Ashie62
Sep 09 2013 01:28 PM
Re: Hot Seat Ike

Simply put...tender Davis and either keep or trade him.

Some other team would have to see the 5 million or so as value for this "slugger" to move him or the Mets own him.