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Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way?

batmagadanleadoff
Apr 24 2013 03:00 PM

I still do. Mostly. Very mostly.



http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/920 ... ary-itunes

Ten Years in the Digital Ether
Was iTunes just a stopgap in the music-consumption revolution?
By Steven Hyden on April 23, 2013





Last Saturday, thousands of aging hoarders lined up at their local record stores (or more likely record store) to overpay for limited-edition collectibles containing music they can probably already hear for free on the Internet. I would denounce those who support the annual hustle known as Record Store Day as Luddites if I didn't happen to be one of them. But I am. Setting aside the structural issues of a record-company cash grab that's dubiously profitable for the local businesses it's supposedly designed to support, I am a believer in the principle of brick-and-mortar stores continuing to sell plastic-and-oil-based physical media in 2013.[1] I prefer to shop for music in the real world, where I can hand over cash to a human being after spending a leisurely hour leafing through stacks of cool-looking objects with my actual hands. I'd argue that the ritualistic aspect of buying tactile, beautifully packaged music objects intended to be played without doing anything else at the same time enhances the listening experience. If it seems like music has been devalued in our culture — if it's thought of less as an art form with the ability to move, edify, and define us and more like one of the lesser apps on our smartphones — maybe getting away from this experience has something to do with it.

Hello? Anybody still there? Sorry, didn't mean to lapse into my old-man "nothin's no good no more" routine. I'm not here to pontificate on the sanctity of record stores. Let's talk instead about a retail outlet that didn't participate in Record Store Day: the world's largest seller of music, iTunes. April 28 marks the 10th anniversary of Apple's digital music store, and it remains a dominant player in the record business. According to a report released last week by the research firm NPD, iTunes presently accounts for 63 percent of digital music sales, with Amazon MP3s coming in a distant second with 22 percent. As an overall piece of the industry pie, sales of downloads were up 5 percent in 2012, versus a hefty 13 percent drop for compact discs.

If you love your local record store, you definitely need to be patronizing it more than once per year, because a small but loyal battery of shoppers with money to burn on Johnny Marr 7-inches won't be enough to stave off the rapid deterioration of its product base. But before you grab a pitchfork and shake it at the evil specter of Apple, remember that downloads may soon be as antiquated as CDs. Sift through the rosy statistics for digital sales and a less promising reality emerges: The gains made by downloads are sluggish compared with the exploding reach of streaming services like Spotify and Pandora, which saw a 59 percent increase in revenues last year thanks to listeners willing to pay a nominal subscription fee (or sit through ads) in exchange for access to libraries with many more songs than they could ever purchase. And there's no sign that this trend has any hope of reversing course. Incredibly, from a customer loyalty standpoint, your neighborhood vinyl hut might have a better long-term prognosis than iTunes.

If it's too early to write an obituary for downloads,[2] you don't have to be a music-industry expert to detect a faint whiff of decomposition. The progression from single-buyer downloads to a universal cloud-based system is both logical and seemingly inexorable. For people who prefer downloads because of the convenience and voluminous stock of digital stores, streaming services are even more user-friendly and offer a wider selection of songs for your buck. Plus, downloads require storage and (unlike good ol' vinyl) have virtually no worth to anyone else after you purchase them.[3] But the celestial library — which is infinitely updated with new music — is always accessible and never a burden.

If you need official confirmation that iTunes is going the way of Sam Goody, look no further than Apple, which is in the process of building its own Pandora-like online radio station. While the service, nicknamed "iRadio" in tech-media circles, hasn't been formally announced, Apple reportedly is getting its streaming house in order, negotiating with record companies for licensing agreements in advance of an expected launch later this year. But unlike iTunes, where Apple's control of the market allowed the company to dictate terms to desperate record labels, iRadio (or whatever it's ultimately called) will be just one of many players in a crowded market.

Apple getting into the streaming-music business is surely meant to help iTunes, allowing listeners to sample new songs and steer them to the store to purchase the music for their personal collections. The jury is still out on whether this tactic actually works: A 2011 study by NPD and the National Association of Recording Merchandisers found that average fans — dubbed "converts" in the survey — spend far less when they have access to streaming services. Again, simple logic is not on the side of downloads, since the difference between listening to a digital song you've purchased and a digital song you've rented is essentially nil. As NPD analyst Russ H. Crupnick told the New York Times, "If you are an average music fan, there's a higher chance that listening will just lead to relistening." Streaming music is a lot more likely to compel so-called "superfans" — i.e., the packaging fetishists who prop up Record Store Day — to buy. These people make up only 10 percent of consumers but account for nearly 50 percent of the spending.

Back when iTunes was introduced in the early '00s, it was common to refer to the new century as "the iPod era." The depth and passion of the media's love for those sleek, ivory-colored, handheld monoliths knew no bounds. You couldn't swing a pair of white earbuds without hitting a magazine or a website conducting an iPod shuffle feature, where semifamous musicians and comedians gushed about the random output of their magical MP3 players. There were also books like Steven Levy's The Perfect Thing, which dutifully recounted every worshipful detail about how the iPod was conceived, engineered, sold, and bought. This wasn't just another mass-produced corporate product; the iPod was a mode of self-expression, a revolutionary force shaping modern life, a new prism through which we perceived and understood the world. The iPod's sex appeal was so vast and all-encompassing that iTunes — the program you had to have if you wanted to, ahem, insert your music collection into your iPod — was sultry by association.

In retrospect, the iPod turned out to be just another mass-produced corporate product. Apple's original tagline — "1,000 songs in your pocket" — seems adorably quaint now. One thousand songs! Hot dog! Next you'll tell me that I can watch an entire season of Game of Thrones over the course of a few weeks, so long as I mail these red envelopes back promptly!

The iPod era is reminiscent of MTV in the '80s and early '90s — what initially appeared to be a sea change in music presentation was actually just a transitional period between sea changes. When the history book about pop music delivery systems is written,[4] MTV will be a footnote in a narrative about how radio was usurped by YouTube. MTV was a music-video channel for roughly a decade because technology hadn't yet caught up with consumer demand.

Likewise, future generations will wonder why on earth anyone would want a device that only played music. The iPod era is long gone; iTunes's legacy is finishing off ownership as a meaningful concept. When iTunes emerged as the legal alternative to Napster and LimeWire, the idea that music must tangibly belong to you for it to have personal value had already begun to erode. With iTunes, what you bought was data; the stuff that once existed around music as a matter of course — everything from artwork and liner notes to the culture of record-shopping — was edited out of the transaction. In the digital realm, albums were stripped down to the barest of possessions, to the point of virtual invisibility (in the figurative and literal senses). Last week's NPD report enthusiastically notes that 38 percent of U.S. consumers still feel that owning music is important — if this figure is cause for celebration, then you know the prospects for downloads must be dire. It certainly seems unlikely that this number will go up in the future. Why would it, now that pop-music capitalism is selling music-listener socialism?

The stubborn survival (and even modest revival) of vinyl suggests there's a segment of music fans who still prefer the pleasures of traditional ownership over the portability and practicality of digital music. People continue to buy vinyl records because they enjoy the process of buying and playing vinyl records. I wonder if there's a similar constituency for downloads. Shopping on iTunes was never fun; pushing that blah-gray "Buy" button might've been easy and utilitarian, but so is filing your taxes online. Back in the Wild West of P2P networks, I admit to engaging in all-night file-sharing binges and gorging madly on records I was never able to find in stores. I feel a trace of nostalgia for those days, as do others, I'm sure. I could see hipsters one day holding "Throwback MP3z" DJ nights, spinning "vintage" mislabeled files with substandard bit rates. But if there's ever a Record Store Day for iTunes, I think I'll pass.


1. I should also note that my support of Record Store Day is now purely symbolic. It's actually the one day I don't like going to record stores. I just can't handle the crowds. When it comes to record stores, I'm a serious drinker, and Record Store Day is New Year's Eve.



2. Some artists withhold their music from streaming companies, both for short periods of time after a new release (like Rihanna and Coldplay) and permanently (the Beatles, Pink Floyd, AC/DC, and pretty much every other A-list classic-rock band), because they don't want to cannibalize sales.

3. According to a 2012 Wall Street Journal story, "most digital content exists in a legal black hole" when it comes to being considered assets that can be passed on after you die, in part because "customers own a license to use the digital files — but they don't actually own them."

4. This book will never actually be written, because books won't exist, but you get what I mean.

seawolf17
Apr 24 2013 03:13 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I rarely buy CDs any more. I will buy mp3s and digital files, though, when the price is right.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Apr 24 2013 03:18 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I don't think I will ever buy a record again and I've definitely paid for my last phone/computer jamming MP3.

I am all about the stream, which has grown my consumption unimaginably, while inspiring me to go do shit like buy concert tickets and stuff I'd have never done in past eras, in part because I couldn't afford to listen to the acts I might want to see.

The record companies and artists (I hope) are better off now that I'm paying a small monthly fee to stream. What worries me now are the deflationary pressures the stream is already under and the coming shakeout of services.

Swan Swan H
Apr 24 2013 03:29 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I still buy a lot of CDs, mostly at shows and as part of pre-orders and/or Kickstarter purchases. I think I have done twenty or so Kickstarters (and similar, like Indiegogo) over the past year and a half.

CDs are still important for the independent artists that I see a lot and have play at my house. If they can get five people to pay $15 each at the merch table they can, in a lot of cases, practically double what they take home from a show. A few use download cards, but the impulse purchase of a CD is still a big deal.

Ceetar
Apr 24 2013 03:29 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I'm probably an outlier since I don't really listen to music, but probably the only money I've spent directly on music in the last five years was the Bon Jovi concert to open Metlife stadium.

seawolf17
Apr 24 2013 03:29 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

http://music.yahoo.com/video/mike-dough ... 42417.html

sharpie
Apr 24 2013 03:45 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I mostly buy CDs, very occasionally buy a song or two from itunes. I do it for a variety of reasons, some of them the reasons that Swan notes. I do like the fetishistic aspect of owning the music, I also like cover art, liner notes and the like. Pandora, cited in the article, I find incredibly annoying with its "we know what you'll like" attitude. My daughter, who works in a cafe in SF, can always tell the cafe that is using Pandora and downgrades them appropriately. There was an article in the NY Times a few months ago about the pitiful royalties artists get for streaming, plus the fact that that whole thing is due for a shakedown, makes me wait.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 24 2013 04:12 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I'm a mix of Spotify/other streaming and iTunes (supplemented with rippage from library-borrowed CDs), with the mp3-stuffs useful mostly because of the devices we've got for car- and family-use.

I'll allow that it took a while to get over the fetishistic attachment to the "stuff" of music... but, consequently (and mostly due to streaming), I do find myself getting more adventurous about consumption than I was 15 years ago, and about as adventurous as I was when I was a tween-to-teen.

cooby
Apr 24 2013 04:52 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I don't own an MP3 player.
I just sent for 3 CDs, two of ALicia Keyes, and one of Dorothy Moore. Anybody remember her?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Apr 24 2013 06:43 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I also miss liner notes and artwork, but the CD/MP3 was deadlier to that the stream. Rdio offers large cover images now, licenses those Ravi reviews (hit or miss) and there's at least good potential for crowd-sourced information and reviews. Since I'm getting it over the computer anyway, it's not a big deal to go to wikipedia or rateyourmusic or discogs to supplement the info as needed. Imperfect but better than Itunes in most ways.

A guy I used to know is one of the bigwigs at Pandora whose job it is to figure out how to make their mixes. To his credit he appears to be basing it on the music itself (beats per minute, key ranges, chord changes etc etc) but I'm not at all certain if that's really why people are agreeable to the music they tend to like. Pandora works because if it were up them, most people would run out of what to play next pretty quickly. Socially driven streamers allow you to see what friends and "the cool people" are listening to to nudge you along. And I would bet that's every bit as relevant as beat this and chord that.

Fman99
Apr 24 2013 06:57 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I, uh, "acquired" all of the music I could possibly want to listen to, and store it all at home on a server that I can access from work or my phone. I do occasionally download new music as well though I mostly keep coming back to the stuff from the past that I like.

themetfairy
Apr 24 2013 07:06 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I still buy CDs. I like listening to them while driving.

metirish
Apr 24 2013 07:30 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I would guess I haven't bought a CD or any other physical form of music in at least five years......in my car I have a SiriusXM subscription. I can also use Pandora in the car or MOG, but I don't have a MOG subscription. I can if I want use my Google Music on my phone in the car....it works great.....

vtmet
Apr 24 2013 09:57 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way?


I was expecting a discussion about "vinyl"...which I still listen to more often than CD or MP3...Actually, a lot of my CD's and MP3's started out as vinyl and then converted to digital using my ION USB Turntable (which is hooked up to both my Audio Receiver and to one of my Computers)...

I still buy hard-copies of most of my music, but I also listen to a lot of music on the computer using Spotify, Pandora and Youtube (Real Player has a cool feature that you can download a video and then also convert the audio portion of the music into a MP3, which you can burn onto a CD or an MP3 Player)...

I have 2 MP3 players, which are IMO, the only way to go when driving long distances...but I've never done a paid download from something like iTunes, or whatever...

By the way, you can still buy Vinyl, and Deepdiscount.com has a large variety of LP records (groups are back to releasing LP records again)...but they tend to be expensive... http://www.deepdiscount.com/music_lps_l ... enre_rock/

vtmet
Apr 24 2013 10:03 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Fman99 wrote:
... though I mostly keep coming back to the stuff from the past that I like.


IMO, the majority of "good music" is prior to 1990...there's an occasional good album or a few decent songs, but they are rare since the digital age...

Batty31
Apr 24 2013 10:10 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I am running out of room for my massive cd collection so I broke down and bought an iPod a few months back. I will miss liner notes as well but I have no choice at this point. Bought a turntable a couple of years ago...still like to break out the vinyl now and then.

Mets – Willets Point
Apr 24 2013 10:34 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Whoa, a Batty sighting!

Hi Batty!

TransMonk
Apr 25 2013 06:58 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I listen to music in most ways.

I have a modest vinyl collection, a couple of CDs and still more cassettes than I'd care to admit. Most of my listening is done via MP3 or stream, but I've got options.

seawolf17
Apr 25 2013 07:37 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I recently picked up a vinyl-to-digital and cassette-to-digital converter for my eventual basement music room. Looking forward to listening to all my old band tapes.

Public libraries are your friends too. The media guy at ours knows me very well.

Batty31
Apr 25 2013 07:57 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
Whoa, a Batty sighting!

Hi Batty!


Hi Willets! Long time no see!


seawolf17 wrote:
I recently picked up a vinyl-to-digital and cassette-to-digital converter for my eventual basement music room. Looking forward to listening to all my old band tapes.

Public libraries are your friends too. The media guy at ours knows me very well.


Can I ask which one seawolf? I've been shopping for one of those to convert my old radio air checks and some of my vinyl that's not available on cd.

Gwreck
Apr 25 2013 12:49 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I am stubbornly old-fashioned and have never once listened to Spotify or Pandora. I buy most of my music on CDs, either ordered online, in an actual store or at a concert.

I have had the opportunity to do a lot more listening to the radio recently (via internet stream); in my opinion, a well-curated radio station is still one of the best ways to experience new music.

Overall, the majority of my music spending is on concert tickets, and while I certainly will admit to having favorites that get a disproportionate share of that spending, I quite enjoy experiencing music for the first time live.

cooby
Apr 25 2013 06:44 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Hi Batty!

TransMonk
Apr 26 2013 07:02 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Gwreck wrote:
I have had the opportunity to do a lot more listening to the radio recently (via internet stream); in my opinion, a well-curated radio station is still one of the best ways to experience new music.


Agreed. I'm addicted to this radio station. No commercials, DJs who tell you what's playing, regular rotations as well as theme shows. I listen all throughout the work day. I hear a lot of new artists here.

soupcan
Apr 26 2013 07:53 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I buy all my music from iTunes and have a Sirus/XM subscription for the car.

I also use Pandora.

I don't see myself converting to 'streaming only'. I like owning my tuneage, besides, if your only option is to stream, what do you do if you want to listen but are somewhere where you don't have any wireless access...?

Ceetar
Apr 26 2013 08:05 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

soupcan wrote:
I buy all my music from iTunes and have a Sirus/XM subscription for the car.

I also use Pandora.

I don't see myself converting to 'streaming only'. I like owning my tuneage, besides, if your only option is to stream, what do you do if you want to listen but are somewhere where you don't have any wireless access...?


stream over 4G/3G? I know it caches some, at least Google Play does. I listen to audiobooks via streaming on my phone, and this includes commuting into Manhattan via going under the Hudson and I never have issues.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Apr 26 2013 08:24 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

soupcan wrote:
I buy all my music from iTunes and have a Sirus/XM subscription for the car.

I also use Pandora.

I don't see myself converting to 'streaming only'. I like owning my tuneage, besides, if your only option is to stream, what do you do if you want to listen but are somewhere where you don't have any wireless access...?


Rdio allows you to "sync" all the music your phone can fit via wifi for mobile play. I usually have 10 or 12 rekkids and playlists synced up and swap 'em out. Plays back anywhere.

seawolf17
Apr 26 2013 09:26 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

My issue with the cloud-based services is partially battery life, although also wanting to have my own stuff in there. Live stuff, stuff by bands that aren't on the streams, etc.

soupcan
Apr 26 2013 09:50 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Ceetar wrote:
stream over 4G/3G? ... I listen to audiobooks via streaming on my phone, and this includes commuting into Manhattan via going under the Hudson and I never have issues.


Okay but then you're paying for that right? And I commute into NYC from CT and for most of the trip the cell service is lousy to non-existent.

soupcan
Apr 26 2013 09:51 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Rdio allows you to "sync" all the music your phone can fit via wifi for mobile play. I usually have 10 or 12 rekkids and playlists synced up and swap 'em out. Plays back anywhere.


There's a solution.

Ceetar
Apr 26 2013 09:56 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

soupcan wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
stream over 4G/3G? ... I listen to audiobooks via streaming on my phone, and this includes commuting into Manhattan via going under the Hudson and I never have issues.


Okay but then you're paying for that right? And I commute into NYC from CT and for most of the trip the cell service is lousy to non-existent.


I have unlimited data. But yeah, you can load some onto the device as well. Google Play is generally your own stuff, but I guess Rdio or some other services provide you similar ability.

batmagadanleadoff
May 02 2013 08:30 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way



Keith Richards Admits: ‘I Don't Have An iPod’





He's rock royalty and likes to keep it old-school: Keith Richards says he doesn't own an iPod.

The Rolling Stones guitarist says he isn't a fan of the ultra-popular music device.

"I don't have an iPod. ... I still use CDs or records actually. Sometimes cassettes. It has much better sound; a much better sound than digital," he said in a recent interview.
The 69-year-old believes music lovers are "all being shortchanged" with the sound that comes out of an iPod, launched in 2001.

"My old lady's got one. My kids have got them. I say, 'Look me up this.' Or, 'Oh I like that. Check me that,'" he said. "I know what these things can do. I'm not totally anti-them."

The Rolling Stones' "50 & Counting Tour" kicks off Friday in Los Angeles. The Stones released their self-titled debut in 1964, and while Richards has accepted that the music industry is digitally driven today, he's not completely OK with it.

"They're sucked into it and they can't get out of it, nor can we; so is the public," he said. "There's something missing there, but it's the price of the future I guess."


http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/ ... ve-an-ipod

Vic Sage
May 03 2013 07:54 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

i can't clean my pot on a download or a stream from some cloud (that sounds like i'm being pissed on by an angel);
i can't appreciate the cover art;
i can't hold the record in my hands; and
the sound is clean but not as rich and warm as vinyl.

That being said, i occasionally buy music (either CD or vinyl) off Amazon, but most often download songs from iTunes. Convenience and price trumps everything.

seawolf17
May 03 2013 09:05 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

My cousin hightailed it to LA a few weeks back in hopes of making all his rock n roll dreams come true. New album out today. I haven't actually listened yet, but here it is. Free if you'd like it, or you can toss him a few bucks.

http://inthedoghouse.bandcamp.com/album/doghouse

A Boy Named Seo
May 03 2013 11:00 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Late to this party, but I'm another Rdio (streaming service) guy and love and recommend it highly. Saved thousands of dollars by not buying CD's I may or may not like after getting them home & actually listening to them, and I've discovered so many artists I may have never heard otherwise. Only downsides are the physical art/liner notes thing, and having an endless sea of music in front of you can lead you to be more disposable with albums than you might be purchasing them. That's not necessarily bad, though. The great ones are gonna stick anyway. The phone/data/battery thing has never been a killer for me.

Also subscribe to Sirius (I still feel like that service will die any second & I'm surprised and happy there are a handful of us here that are subscribers). Sirius + Rdio keep me covered. Still buy the very occasional vinyl, but haven't bought a CD in years and look forward to the day I get off my lazy arse and get rid of the 1000's i have taking up space in my apt.

PS - Good luck to your cuz, wolfie.

Edgy MD
May 03 2013 12:56 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Another (largely invisible) downside remains --- artists not getting paid and therefore unable to create more and better music for our edification.

sharpie
May 03 2013 01:14 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

That invisible downside is one of the main reasons I haven't gone over to the streaming side.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/busin ... lties.html

Vic Sage
May 03 2013 01:55 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Edgy MD wrote:
Another (largely invisible) downside remains --- artists not getting paid and therefore unable to create more and better music for our edification.


Well, yeah, there's THAT, too.
but don't undersell the clean pot thing.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 05 2013 06:09 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

sharpie wrote:
That invisible downside is one of the main reasons I haven't gone over to the streaming side.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/busin ... lties.html


Part of the problem is only 25% of Spotify users pay anything to use it. They remind me in a way of the early dot-commerce players like Webvan who were all about building scale and share before they figured out a sustainable biz model. If they had 20 million users paying to use it maybe they could afford to pay the artists more.

vtmet
May 05 2013 06:48 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

when you watch a commercial on tv, that pays for the show...there are plenty of commercials on Spotify and On Demand and on Hulu, so how is that any different?

most of what I listen to on Spotify and on youtube or pandora, is the same music that I already bought in vinyl form...

Edgy MD
May 05 2013 11:03 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I can only tell you that the streaming service model, in general, isn't working out for the artist.

Ceetar
May 06 2013 07:12 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Edgy MD wrote:
I can only tell you that the streaming service model, in general, isn't working out for the artist.


perhaps not yet?

But isn't there some of the "customer is always right" to consider? I know that doesn't always apply to art, but in terms of art being profitable it certainly does. And it's nothing specific that's keeping the musician down, they just haven't quite adjusted to modern times yet. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't see music going away, so someone will figure it out. Maybe it'll happen organically, or maybe they need someone innovative. They're hardly the only industry struggling (If it could be said to be struggling, since there certainly seems to be music out there, billions of fans, and rich artists) to adjust in a digital world.

The trick is to create a model that's what the listener wants, and, set it up so that's profitable. The entire world is going towards streaming/cloud-based that this method is at least fitting in that.

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 10:00 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I'd say when it's a choice of accepting a model of collecting pennies on the dollar for your efforts in order to escape a system where you get nothing, no, it's not working. When artists with tens or even hundreds of thousands of fans on all continents are making less than I'm making sitting at my desk typing this, that's wrong. There's no dignity in that.

That's not the marketplace at work. That's the black marketplace at work.

Artists that are rich are not rich because of their music, but because they've turned themselves into a brand and signed contracts to be on the covers of Trapper Keepers. That's not a viable or helpful option for many or most of our best musicmakers.

Ceetar
May 06 2013 10:10 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

but what black marketplace? I get that people aren't paying for music as much anymore, but it's hardly the job of the customer to make sure the artist is making a living. In a perfect world, artists of all types would make a living on their art (of course, what constitutes 'good' enough to make a living is heavily subjective. is hundreds of thousands of fans the threshhold?) from writers to singers and bands and painters, etc.

Whose responsibility to convert music/art into a viable business? Streaming isn't the problem, it's an attempt at a solution. A lot of it is the marketplace itself, and the saturation of it. I don't think there's a "black marketplace" that's keeping artists down, it's a societal/cultural change in how we consume products, music included, that needs to be adapted to. I'm not sure what the answer is though.

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 10:22 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

If you don't know about the black marketplace that gutted the music industry, I'm not sure what I can tell you, but it was called free illegal downloading.

And yes, protecting the makers of goods and performers of services from exploitation is the job of the consumer. A purchase is a moral statement.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 06 2013 10:43 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Ceetar wrote:
but what black marketplace? I get that people aren't paying for music as much anymore, but it's hardly the job of the customer to make sure the artist is making a living.


I don't think it was your intent, but you just kindasorta made a really gross moral justification, there.

batmagadanleadoff
May 06 2013 11:01 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Those artists can always do what Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd does: they can avoid the streaming services and the MP3 downloads, and just stick to selling their music in music stores -- the old fashioned way. Then when a fan wants to buy their music, they'll spend the five to 15 bucks for a CD, and the band's commission, percentage wise, will be higher.

Nothing lasts forever. Technology changes the world. Some win and some lose. Just ask the guy that decided to go into the typewriter manufacturing business in the early '80's. Or that other guy that decided to scoop up a bunch of those one-hour photo developing kiosk franchises 20 years ago. Most consumers are mainly interested in getting the product for as cheap as possible. And moral issues aside, that's the marketplace. That's the consumer mind-set that any seller or provider of goods or services has to deal with.

It's Darwinian. And cruel. Brutally cruel. But that's the way it is. Get out or adapt or die.

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 11:14 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Well, as soon as you say, "moral elements aside," you've got the argument won, as I'm trying to make a moral and legal argument.

batmagadanleadoff
May 06 2013 11:17 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Edgy MD wrote:
Well, as soon as you say, "moral elements aside," you've got the argument won, as I'm trying to make a moral and legal argument.


I know what your sayin'. But how do you get your music? The old fashioned way? The stream? Downloads? Something else?

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 11:28 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

A little of all. CDs, digital downloads, as well as streaming. I subscribe to a streaming service but don't use it much at all, as I've never really taken the time to optimize it's utility. Plus it (rdio.com) is blocked at work. And my wife, as a musician herself, doesn't like it all. She's only dimly aware of the impact on her fellow musicians, but she likes the consumption of music (and books, for that matter) to come with a tangible package, even though she realizes she's a doomed dodo. But being married to a musician (and reviewing her royalty checks which are hardly worth the paper they're printed on), makes you acutely aware of what's at stake.

I listen to Pandora on the way home on the bus sometimes. On one hand I don't feel there's as large a moral issue with Pandora, as listening to a randomly presented song on Pandora is more analogous to hearing a song on the radio than playing it on demand out of your own collection. But Pandora's chief exec, a failed musician himself, is also at the forefront of those in the streamloading business trying to resist a re-visitation of the royalty structure in the industry to something more beneficial to artists.

seawolf17
May 06 2013 11:31 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Why do I have to morally pay $10-15 for a new album? I'm not saying that artists shouldn't be paid for their art, but Ceetar's right.

There are plenty of artists who do (seem to) a great job right now; look at Amanda Palmer's PledgeMusic drive, or Ginger Wildheart's recent record, or Jonathan Coulton's current drive that's doing so well they keep adding perks.

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 11:35 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

seawolf17 wrote:
Why do I have to morally pay $10-15 for a new album?

You don't, but you do have to see that with musicians, it was a question of "You either accept this terrible fee structure or accept that people will just continue to steal your music."

seawolf17 wrote:
I'm not saying that artists shouldn't be paid for their art

But they have little say in setting their price anymore.

but Ceetar's right.

About what?

There are plenty of artists who do (seem to) a great job right now; look at Amanda Palmer's PledgeMusic drive, or Ginger Wildheart's recent record, or Jonathan Coulton's current drive that's doing so well they keep adding perks.

My point --- the streaming industry isn't working for artists. There are other models, great. They are not the norm, and they are hard to establish as such in manner that protects musicians.

Ceetar
May 06 2013 11:43 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
but what black marketplace? I get that people aren't paying for music as much anymore, but it's hardly the job of the customer to make sure the artist is making a living.


I don't think it was your intent, but you just kindasorta made a really gross moral justification, there.



yeah, not my intent. I didn't mean "Screw you, if I can a product for free, i'm going to" I meant, it's not the customers job to figure out how to run a profitable business.

I don't really try to make my purchases for moral reasons. If i'm overly aware of them, I try to support the 'better ' company. (If Coke is kicking puppies, I'll try to make a point to buy Pepsi, but if i'm in a store and thirsty and it only has coke?) It's too hard to do that for everything though, and i don't want to spend a half hour doing research on soda companies before buying a can of soda.

And most people are like that. We can argue about moral obligations to society all we like, but most people, for most products (everyone has interests that they care more about enough to research and support), just want what they can get at the best cost. If the store has a recycling bin next to the trash, they'll put their cans in there. if not, they'll throw them out. If, via streaming or whatever, they can get the music they want they won't download it for free.

Streaming is actually easier than downloading all the specific albums. I set up my wife's Google Play account with all our music (downloaded for free, purchased, and otherwise) and when she goes to put music on she's more apt to put on the radio or Pandora.

You don't, but you do have to see that with musicians, it was a question of "You either accept this terrible fee structure or accept that people will just continue to steal your music."


It's probably a lesser of two evils choice right now, and it's probably not the ultimate answer (that's 42), but it's probably a step, or at least a learning mistake?

It's Darwinian. And cruel. Brutally cruel. But that's the way it is. Get out or adapt or die.


Basically. And that's what I find interesting about all this. How companies adapt, how the world is changing. It's not just the music industry, it's pretty much everything.

seawolf17
May 06 2013 11:49 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Inadvertently deleted the part I agreed with from Ceetar: about it not being my responsibility to make sure musicians are making money.

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 11:52 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I guess we split there. There are tons of moral elements to consumption. It may be tiresome, but it comes around to bite the consumer in the ass every single tiime, so it's in his and her interest to embrace the challenge.

Ceetar
May 06 2013 12:03 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Edgy MD wrote:
I guess we split there. There are tons of moral elements to consumption. It may be tiresome, but it comes around to bite the consumer in the ass every single tiime, so it's in his and her interest to embrace the challenge.


Even so, you can't do it for EVERY purchase. for me, music falls way down on the list of things I care about. I put in that effort for beer purchases because it's higher on my list. But then, I'm getting what I want from music. Maybe many others are too.

Presumably we're talking about the marginally successful musicians that aren't making a living. But what if streaming isn't what's keeping them from making a living, what if it's what's keeping them from being completely unknown? Streaming and downloading maybe alerted people to how little value they were getting for their money by buying albums before.

metirish
May 06 2013 12:06 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

sharpie wrote:
That invisible downside is one of the main reasons I haven't gone over to the streaming side.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/busin ... lties.html


Interesting read, and really interesting to see that Cliff Burnstein along with Metallica have an exclusive deal with Spotify , remember Metallica and especially Lars getting hammered by a lot of people years ago when they took Napster to court , Sean Parker who was a co-founder of Napster is a board member of Spotify.......I have stolen music in the past via peer -to -peer sites...I don't like it and have not done it in years......there is a part of me that felt bad about the artist.....

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 12:12 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Ceetar wrote:
Edgy MD wrote:
I guess we split there. There are tons of moral elements to consumption. It may be tiresome, but it comes around to bite the consumer in the ass every single tiime, so it's in his and her interest to embrace the challenge.


Even so, you can't do it for EVERY purchase. for me, music falls way down on the list of things I care about.

Well, you can, depending on how much you'll be bothered to care. More importantly, federal law, the crafters of which have time and staffs and expertise that we don't have, can be structured to represent the just interests of all Americans in a way that goes beyond their own knowledge.

Ceetar
May 06 2013 12:21 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Edgy MD wrote:
Edgy MD wrote:
I guess we split there. There are tons of moral elements to consumption. It may be tiresome, but it comes around to bite the consumer in the ass every single tiime, so it's in his and her interest to embrace the challenge.


Even so, you can't do it for EVERY purchase. for me, music falls way down on the list of things I care about.

Well, you can, depending on how much you'll be bothered to care. More importantly, federal law, the crafters of which have time and staffs and expertise that we don't have, can be structured to represent the just interests of all Americans in a way that goes beyond their own knowledge.


well yeah, but I just don't think most people can be that bothered, especially about most things. But yeah, that's where law/rules should/could step in. But the people that can do something here are the artists themselves. Why are they accepting a crappy deal if it's not worth it to them? Hold out! If enough aren't on the streaming sites, people will stop paying for streaming sites. Sure, they'll just download it, but now the streaming sites will be more apt to pay more reasonable rates? Maybe Metallica shouldn't be signing exclusive deals, but using their influence to demand higher rates for everyone?

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 12:31 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Ceetar wrote:
well yeah, but I just don't think most people can be that bothered, especially about most things.

That just about sums up everything about everything right there, doesn't it?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 06 2013 12:51 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I don't think there's any moral aspect to my purchasing, which is why I do all my food and appliance shopping at My Neighbor's House Whose Key I Found Several Months Ago and clothe my daughter and wife with things I take from smaller, weaker parents and toddlers.

batmagadanleadoff
May 06 2013 12:57 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
I don't think there's any moral aspect to my purchasing, which is why I do all my food and appliance shopping at My Neighbor's House Whose Key I Found Several Months Ago and clothe my daughter and wife with things I take from smaller, weaker parents and toddlers.



Now that's Darwinian. Me, I don't advocate breaking the law. But all things being equal, I'd rather spend less than more.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 06 2013 01:07 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I guess the artists need to drive a harder bargain with the labels, and the labels with the streamers. My point was that the streamers are terrified to bargain hard with users at least while market share is up for grabs still. They also know that too many end users will turn to illegal alternatives rather than pony up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 06 2013 01:13 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Agreed. But "all things being equal" is a pretty important qualifier.

Vic Sage
May 06 2013 01:49 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
I don't think there's any moral aspect to my purchasing, which is why I do all my food and appliance shopping at My Neighbor's House Whose Key I Found Several Months Ago and clothe my daughter and wife with things I take from smaller, weaker parents and toddlers.


Now that's Darwinian. Me, I don't advocate breaking the law. But all things being equal, I'd rather spend less than more.


Yeah, but all things are NOT equal. Unlike artistic works (a song, or a book, or a play, or a screenplay, or a dance, or a photograph, etc.), a pot, or a typewriter or a beer are NOT the result of artistic accomplishment; they are not cultural artifacts. They are NOT equal. And Article I, Section 8, the "Progress Clause" of our constitution has defined such works as qualitatively different and worthy of protection by law. You can be as Darwinian as you like about Beer or hubcaps, but we have decided as a society that the Arts and Sciences are necessary to advance our civilization, and so we need to grant the creators of them a limited monopoly over their use so they can make a living from them, thus encouraging them to create them. In this way, we not only incentivize the creation of a particular work, we allow for the revenue necessary to create scientific and artistic communities, populated by people who can be professionals in these areas, not just amateurs passing through.

And now, this Constitutional expression of our national will, of our values as a society, is being undermined by kids who prefer to steal stuff just because they can, and their parents who rationalize the theft with "why pay more if i can pay less, or why pay anything at all if my kid can just take it?"

Yes, this is a decision with a moral dimension. Artists are essential for democratic government, which is why section 8 exists. It's the artist that makes the call to arms, that says the emperor has no clothes, that can lead us in a different direction by first imagining such an alternative exists. Artists are at the forefront of revolutions, and are often the first ones hung. That's not by accident. It's not the brewers, the bakers, or the candlestick makers.

So stop with the "all things being equal" bullshit. Because they're not.

And all this "well that's the way it is" nonsense is a lot of self-justification for immoral behavior.

We're starving our canaries in the coal mine, so lets not be too surprised if we aren't eventually overcome.

Ceetar
May 06 2013 01:59 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I've hardly an expert, but I certainly feel exposed to more music than say 15 years ago. (and granted, I was young and more unaware then.) Maybe i'm wrong, but there are plenty of rich musicians. I don't see any hampering of creative expression or "this Constitutional expression of our national will, of our values as a society" being hurt. I see plenty of people expecting to be richer than they are and looking for someone to blame instead of looking to be creative or progressive and earn it.

Edgy MD
May 06 2013 02:13 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Ceetar wrote:
I've hardly an expert


Ceetar wrote:
Maybe i'm wrong


Ceetar wrote:
I don't see


Come on. At least try and get the blinders off.

sharpie
May 06 2013 02:18 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

For every "rich musician" there are thouands upon thousands of "not rich" musicians and many of them have more talent than the rich ones, they just don't market themselves as well.

I understand Lunchbucket's point that the streaming companies are wary of raising prices on the cheap-goods-drunk public but most musicians have no power to exert over the labels and the labels have been so bludgeoned by free downloads that they are still grasping at every raft in a storm. The music industry is still so shell-shocked by the rise of Napster, et al. and the criticism (fairly justified) that they were foolish in stonewalling and not trying to find a way to accommodate technology that they are bending over backwards to encourage anything that will generate revenue.

I don't understand Ceeter's point that music is somehow more prevalent than before. I suppose if you want to go back before Walkmen that would be true but any greater exposure to music that anyone has is not really relevant.

Swan Swan H
May 06 2013 03:03 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

This is not a conceptual thing for me. I know these people. They sleep on my couch, they play in my living room. I go to see them in places where I'm the first 55 year old guy to appear in a year. I wouldn't take their music for free because I know that they carefully pile up money and trade favors just to get the music produced.

I agree with Vic's take totally, but as for me I pay for music because it is a real thing to me, as real as a box of cereal or a gallon of gas. I see it being made and I feel that the people who make it deserve to be paid for it. If I choose not to buy it for whatever reason, fair enough, but as the cliche goes if I want to dance I have to pay the piper.

batmagadanleadoff
May 06 2013 04:34 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I don't think there's any moral aspect to my purchasing, which is why I do all my food and appliance shopping at My Neighbor's House Whose Key I Found Several Months Ago and clothe my daughter and wife with things I take from smaller, weaker parents and toddlers.


Now that's Darwinian. Me, I don't advocate breaking the law. But all things being equal, I'd rather spend less than more.


Yeah, but all things are NOT equal. Unlike artistic works (a song, or a book, or a play, or a screenplay, or a dance, or a photograph, etc.), a pot, or a typewriter or a beer are NOT the result of artistic accomplishment; they are not cultural artifacts. They are NOT equal. And Article I, Section 8, the "Progress Clause" of our constitution has defined such works as qualitatively different and worthy of protection by law. You can be as Darwinian as you like about Beer or hubcaps, but we have decided as a society that the Arts and Sciences are necessary to advance our civilization, and so we need to grant the creators of them a limited monopoly over their use so they can make a living from them, thus encouraging them to create them. In this way, we not only incentivize the creation of a particular work, we allow for the revenue necessary to create scientific and artistic communities, populated by people who can be professionals in these areas, not just amateurs passing through.

And now, this Constitutional expression of our national will, of our values as a society, is being undermined by kids who prefer to steal stuff just because they can, and their parents who rationalize the theft with "why pay more if i can pay less, or why pay anything at all if my kid can just take it?"

Yes, this is a decision with a moral dimension. Artists are essential for democratic government, which is why section 8 exists. It's the artist that makes the call to arms, that says the emperor has no clothes, that can lead us in a different direction by first imagining such an alternative exists. Artists are at the forefront of revolutions, and are often the first ones hung. That's not by accident. It's not the brewers, the bakers, or the candlestick makers.

So stop with the "all things being equal" bullshit. Because they're not.

And all this "well that's the way it is" nonsense is a lot of self-justification for immoral behavior.

We're starving our canaries in the coal mine, so lets not be too surprised if we aren't eventually overcome.


To the extent that you're responding to my posts, you misunderstood them. Again, I don't advocate breaking the law, or in this case, illegally downloading music, and haven't written anything to suggest that. I'm entirely with you on that point. I'm just recognizing the reality --the harsh reality-- of the marketplace in that most consumers, and by most I'd say more than half, are interested mainly in purchasing - legally - their music for as little as possible. And in determining what medium or format of music to purchase, those consumers might consider the medium itself, (e.g., compact discs, digital music, etc.), the sound quality of the music, the ease of use, the ability to clean their, ahem, pots on said medium, and other factors. But I'd say that for most consumers, the amount of money the recording artists are to receive from those music purchases, is not a factor. The buyers just don't care. And I don't say whether that's good or that's bad. It just is. And so therefore, when I say "all things being equal" on behalf of these hypothetical consumers, I'm not factoring in the artists' compensation issue, because it's not an issue to those buyers. It doesn't influence their purchasing decisions. There are competing and irreconcilable interests at play here, as there are in most economic transactions: the seller wants to receive as much money as possible for her goods or services and the buyer wants to spend as little as possible to acquire those goods or services. I'm not against the artist making more money, nor am I insensitive to his plight (reduced income). I'm just recognizing this new disruptive technology that allows a buyer to acquire a lot more music for a lot less money, but at the expense of the recording artist. The market will sort things out, as it almost always does. What do you suggest -- imposing floors on the selling price of music?

A Boy Named Seo
May 06 2013 06:02 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Everyone here (I think) agrees that illegally downloading is a shitty thing to do for a multitude of reasons.

As for the paying customers... they can still show artist the monetary love in a few ways - buy a CD's if you want, vinyl's enjoying a nice resurgence, and there's always concert tix and overpriced T's to buy at those concerts. I'm 37 and can't afford a house in part because I still spend way too much $$ watching bands I love and buying sweet-ass, expensive t-shirts. (Mostly) no regrets for me.

As a consumer, I no longer want to fill my apartment with CD's and there are legit, legal alternatives available to me that I go for. I don't physically own anything I stream, the sound quality is compressed and is of lesser quality, and I can't listen to most of it if I'm out of cell phone range or off the internet, so I pay less than I would if I owned an mp3 or a CD or a record. As a consumer, that seems mostly fair to me on the face of it.

As a musician working on a recording, my band will go streaming for the same reasons a lot of truly label-free independents do. Exposure (if only brief and sometimes accidental) to a lot of people in locations we wouldn't sniff otherwise, and then you try to make a buck or two selling mp3s at bandcamp/iTunes, etc. We'd like to do a disc (or vinyl) like a lot of bands would, but the cost of making CD's is still very high despite no one buying CD's anymore ever anywhere. There's less $$ to make, but also way less overhead for a smaller band with no label backing them that's just trying to get heard. That isn't saying that I think streaming royalty rates are fair (or as fair as terrestrial radio rates, satellite radio, etc.) those are just the reasons that mine and a lot of bands will still use them, even if things could be better.

I don't know how royalty rates are negotiated through Spotify, Rdio, etc. I know Pandora has a negotiated rate with BMI and ASCAP (and those are very low and those cheap bastards would like to pay less) and they also pay royalties to SoundExhange for the bands and labels. There are a lot of middle men and no one gets paid direclty.

I'd guess most record labels (and further down the road, the artists behind the labels) have very little weight to throw around when it comes to rate negotiations unless your name is Beatles, Beiber, or Beyonce. But none of the labels or artists want to get left behind. Too much at stake, too much money to miss out on. There's a lot of hands reached out when the checks are being written, but the representatives for the bands and labels and the reps for the publishers should play a much harder brand of ball in the future to get more in royalties. And I'm sure if that happens, the subscribers rates will go up, just cause that's how shit seems to work.

I pay $10/month for Rdio and would gladly pay more if more $$ was going to the artists. My subscription to Sirius is more expensive, but I've read they pay out higher royalties than streaming services. Pandora's the worst on that front... (remember the 'Internet Radio Fairness Act'?). When companies are lobbying to have laws created to help lessen the burden of royalty paying, then you realize how difficult it is for artists. Who can trust any of the bastards? It's a clusterfuck.

metirish
May 06 2013 07:17 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Good to hear from a person in a band.

metirish
May 16 2013 07:35 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Google threw the proverbial cat amongst the pengions yesterday with their Spotify rival.....Google Music All Access for $7.99 a month(if you do the trial).

I'm going to trail it and see....


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/1 ... 80462.html

Edgy MD
May 16 2013 07:57 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

And for the ninth consecutive month, metirish wins the "Come up with a Phrase metirish Might Use" contest. "Proverbial cat amongst the pengions"? Come on, you made that up.

Swan Swan H
May 16 2013 08:08 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Edgy MD wrote:
And for the ninth consecutive month, metirish wins the "Come up with a Phrase metirish Might Use" contest. "Proverbial cat amongst the pengions"? Come on, you made that up.


I know it's supposed to be 'pigeons,' but reading this on my phone I thought I saw 'pensioners' for a split second.

metirish
May 16 2013 10:58 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Yes it should be " the proverbial cat amongst the pigeons".

seawolf17
May 16 2013 11:03 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Right, but why would a cat be amongst pigeons? Cats fuckin' hate pigeons. Penguins, now. THAT's a cat's jam right there.

metirish
May 16 2013 07:06 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Enough with proverbial pussies , started my trial....loving it so far.....so far I have searched out a lot of New Order and Joy Division...happy with the results....it's saving to my phone for offline listening......the radio beats Pandora so far.... unlimited skipping.....that can be a good thing and a bad thing. I have found many a good song on Pandora because I didn't want to skip......


I am biased here as I am all in with Google, I even use my phone to pay for most everything....Google Wallet.

Ceetar
May 16 2013 08:12 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

metirish wrote:
Enough with proverbial pussies , started my trial....loving it so far.....so far I have searched out a lot of New Order and Joy Division...happy with the results....it's saving to my phone for offline listening......the radio beats Pandora so far.... unlimited skipping.....that can be a good thing and a bad thing. I have found many a good song on Pandora because I didn't want to skip......


I am biased here as I am all in with Google, I even use my phone to pay for most everything....Google Wallet.


I updated my Google Music app today and now it no workie.

batmagadanleadoff
Jul 26 2013 09:41 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way



The New Audio Geeks




By STEVEN KURUTZ
Published: July 24, 2013

n his bachelor days in the late ’80s, Philip Elias lived in a town house in Pittsburgh wired for jaw-dropping sound.

He owned a Bang & Olufsen Beocenter 9500 music system with three pairs of B&O Penta 3 tower speakers, each set up in a different room. Sometimes he would invite friends over and crack open a new album as if he were uncorking a great bottle of wine.

The speakers, which cost around $5,000 a pair and required months of saving to buy, were as breathtaking in design as they were in sonic quality, Mr. Elias said: “Architecturally, they were sensual. Almost something out of the Museum of Modern Art. That was important. They made a statement above the sound.”

These days, Mr. Elias, 58, is an advertising executive who lives with his wife and three children in a house in Pittsburgh with enough high-end audio gear to open a stereo showroom, including a Krell Showcase five-channel power amp ($4,500), Thiel CS6 loudspeakers ($9,000 a pair) and an Escient FireBall CD system ($4,000). Every year, he offers to buy his children a great stereo, he said, but they never take him up on it.

“They’d rather have a laptop,” he said. “It’s dispiriting.”

The Internet and digital technology have upended the music industry over the last decade or so, but high-end audio has arguably suffered an even greater blow. The industry’s very raison d’être — the nitpicky pursuit of superb sound reproduction, no matter the cost or complexity — is irrelevant to many music listeners today.

People download MP3s from iTunes or Web sites and play them on their smartphones or laptops. They share songs with friends by e-mailing YouTube links. Sure, the music sounds flat, tinny, supercompressed; it’s an audiophile’s hell. But convenience and mobility rule the day.

Ken Kessler, a veteran audio journalist, summed up the industry’s problems last year at an audiophile conference in Denver. Speaking to a roomful of mostly middle-aged men, he said: “In the ’60s and ’70s, if you opened up Esquire or Playboy and they showed a bachelor pad, there was a killer sound system in it. Now, there’s an iPod dock.”

Apple devices aren’t losing ground with bachelors or anyone else, and soon music may exist mainly in the nebulous “cloud.” Still, there is a sense that after years of near extinction, a new generation of home audiophiles is emerging to follow in the footsteps of guys like Mr. Elias.

From the renewed popularity of vinyl (a trend that isn’t lost on retailers like Urban Outfitters, which now sells not just records but turntables alongside its clothing) to the sales explosion of high-end headphones like the $400 Beats by Dre, many younger music fans are seeking a listening experience that goes beyond an MP3 and a cheap pair of earbuds.

Of course, for some, the primary motivation is fashion; it’s become cool to collect vinyl or wear slick headphones. But for others, there is a desire for what Charley Damski, a 24-year-old budding audiophile, called a “pure connection to the source.”

Mr. Damski, who lives in Los Angeles and works at a television animation studio, said he spent high school buying and burning CDs and making mixes from songs he downloaded from iTunes and file-sharing sites.

Then he heard one of his older brother’s albums, “A Night at the Opera” by Queen, in 5.1 surround sound. “I remember listening to it in my room and hearing all the voices,” Mr. Damski said. “I thought, ‘Oh, there’s another layer to this I wasn’t aware of.’ ”

Hearing music with such outstanding sound quality was a revelatory experience, he said: “You don’t know you need it until it exists.”

If sonic quality has diminished for many in recent years, the quantity of music that people consume may be at a high. Freed of home storage constraints, digital libraries have swelled absurdly.

Dan Svizeny, a 24-year-old manager at an online advertising agency in Philadelphia, recalled how his high school classmates bragged about the number of tunes stored on their iPods. “They would say, ‘Oh, man, I have 60,000 songs,’ ” he said. “It was a currency.”

For a while, Mr. Svizeny, a guitarist and avid music consumer, engaged in the MP3 arms race, ripping songs from Napster and other file-sharing sites and importing them to his iTunes account. “The sound quality didn’t matter at all,” he said. “Just the music.”

But Mr. Svizeny’s attitude has since changed. He no longer owns an iPod and rarely, if ever, downloads music, he said. At work, he listens to Spotify, the music-streaming service. At home, he plays LPs, inspired, he said, by his father’s collection of Black Sabbath and Frank Zappa records. “I could buy a terabyte hard drive and store countless MP3s, but it’s lost value to me,” Mr. Svizeny said. “I’d rather hold a physical thing.”

With vinyl, he added, “You’re experiencing music in a different way.”

Mr. Damski went through a similar evolution, from having more than 50,000 songs on his hard drive to “abandoning” iTunes, he said, in favor of Spotify and the scratchy joys of vinyl. He likes the physicality of LPs, and the way they make it hard for him to skip songs. He also enjoys what he called the “Easter egg hunt” of used-record shopping, otherwise known as sifting through bins of Olivia Newton-John and Al Martino releases, hoping to find a rare gem from the Beach Boys’ bearded phase.

In true audiophile fashion, it now pains Mr. Damski to listen to low-resolution music played through the microspeakers of a smartphone or a computer. “I wanted to hear a Kinks song the other day that wasn’t on Spotify, so a friend looked it up on YouTube,” he said. “It sounded so bad.”

He laughed at his own fussiness, but added, “I didn’t even want to listen anymore.”

As for home audio equipment, Mr. Svizeny owns what he considers an average Sony turntable, receiver and speakers, while Mr. Damski uses his roommate’s Audio-Technica model. But both men hope to acquire a high-end system someday.

“If I own a house and have disposable income, a good stereo will be a primary investment,” Mr. Damski said. “Definitely higher on the list than bath towels.”

For years, the typical high-end audio customer has been a white-haired classical music aficionado or an aging rock fan for whom listening to “Aja” in 1977 on a pair of Altec Lansings was a spiritual experience.

But recently, veteran audio companies have started adapting their products to the changing tastes of younger listeners. McIntosh, for years the holy grail for preamps and other components, has been adding USB ports to its entire product line in a long overdue acknowledgment of the popularity of music streaming. Thiel Audio, the revered speaker maker, has hired an industrial designer for the first time to make sure its products pass what its chief operating officer, Bob Brown, called the “aesthetics test.”

“My wife laughs at how our house was filled with speakers the size of refrigerators,” Mr. Brown said. “This generation is not going to buy ugly, boxy stuff. They listen through their eyes first, before their ears.”

Mr. Brown envisions that Thiel speakers will be curvier, with thinner profiles, in keeping with the industry trend and in line with modern interiors. It’s a look he hopes will appeal to his new, more-discerning target audio customer: the young career woman.

“The bachelor-pad stuff is old,” Mr. Brown said. “I wish it wasn’t, but I have to be honest: If you sell to my son and my wife and the young career woman, you get me. I don’t make the buying decisions anymore. It’s over.”

Grain Audio, a new company formed by four industry veterans, is covering its bookshelf speakers and earphones in wood, an aesthetic it hopes will appeal to both sexes. Mitch Wenger, its president, said music fans shouldn’t have to conceal speakers behind walls or cabinets at home, as they have for years.

“It should be furniture-quality,” Mr. Wenger said. “It’s, like, my Eames chair and my Grain bookshelfs. That’s the thinking.”

Since the Apple store has for many people replaced the stereo showroom, audio companies are also striving to find creative ways of reaching younger music fans. Two years ago, Roy Hall, the founder of Music Hall Audio, approached Urban Outfitters about carrying his turntables. At first, the retail chain sold a $250 entry-level model, but sales have been so robust, Mr. Hall said, that some stores now carry his higher-end mmf-2.2 turntable, which sells for $450.

“The kids are not idiots,” Mr. Hall said. “A nice little hi-fi system with a good turntable sounds amazing — way beyond an iPod.”

And while many audio companies have struggled or gone under in the wake of the iPod’s popularity, the iPod has also created millions of potential audiophiles. “You have a whole generation getting music over the Internet, from streaming, tablets, iPhones,” Mr. Brown said. “It’s introduced many more people to music.”

Sam Angiuli, a 25-year-old sales representative at Bloomberg LP, is typical. Like Mr. Svizeny and Mr. Damski, he has amassed a large iTunes library and uses an online music service, SoundCloud, yet he is as finicky about good sound as an old-school audio geek like Mr. Elias.

In his teens, Mr. Angiuli “worked two to three jobs at a time,” he said, to finance a sternum-rattling stereo for his car. Now he is on the verge of buying his first high-end home system for his Manhattan apartment. It will be equipped with McIntosh components and cost $10,000 to $20,000, he estimates. “My ear can hear the difference,” Mr. Angiuli said, explaining why he dedicates so much of his income to audio gear.

Being a modern audiophile, he added, is “a constant battle between the best sound and convenience.” It’s a world in which turntables and McIntosh preamps vie for shelf space with digital media streamers and iPods.

Still, to someone like Mr. Brown, the speaker executive, it’s encouraging that sound quality is once again part of the equation.

“I never lost faith that the new generation would come along,” he said. Then he added, in what could be the audiophile credo for any age or era, “If you really love music, you’re ever searching for how to hear it better.”

Starting With Something Simple

As a salesman at Stereo Exchange, a bastion of audio geekery in Manhattan, Michael Toto has watched the upheavals in the music and audio industries from the ground level. With music fans switching between MP3s and vinyl, the current moment is a combination of “high-tech and low-tech,” he said. To that end, Mr. Toto recommended a few basic stereo components, to be used separately or in tandem, for entry-level audiophiles who want a system that blends modern technology and convenience with higher-quality sound.

CONNECT BY SONOS

PRICE Around $350


WHAT IT DOES
Hook up this music streamer to a home stereo, and it will play audio from Spotify, Sirius XM radio, iTunes and other sources. It is platform- and format-agnostic, and has an Apple-like cube design. Mr. Toto called the Connect “the box of choice” and “a product for a modern music listener.”

DECCO65 BY PEACHTREE AUDIO

COST Around $1,000

WHAT IT DOES
An all-in-one amp, preamp and digital-to-analog converter, the Decco65 can be used in conjunction with a Sonos Connect or any device with a digital output, like the Apple AirPort Express. “It gives a warm sound to digital files,” Mr. Toto said, calling it a kind of gateway into high-end home audio. It also looks sharp, with an outer shell in black lacquer, cherry wood or rosewood. (Price varies by finish.)

TRAVELER TURNTABLE BY VPI

COST Around $1,500 (without cartridge)

WHAT IT DOES
This first step into high-end performance turntables is made by a small New Jersey company that has been in business since vinyl was the default format. The Traveler’s platter is extremely stable, producing amazing sound. It can be “tweaky” to start, Mr. Toto said, but “when you set this up the right way, it’s a damn beautiful piece of equipment.”

SMB-02 HEADPHONES BY PHONON

COST Around $350

WHAT THEY DO
These over-ears headphones are made by a Japanese company with an audio dream team that includes a veteran sound engineer, a music producer and a D.J. The results are known in the audiophile world as “the holy grail of headphones” for their comfort and clear, lush sound. “We get batches in 10 at a time from Japan,” Mr. Toto said, “and sell them out immediately.”

A version of this article appeared in print on July 25, 2013, on page D1 of the New York edition with the headline: The New Audio Geeks.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/garde ... d=all&_r=0


Philip Elias with a Bang & Olufsen Penta 3 tower speaker. He has six, which cost around $5,000 a pair.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jul 26 2013 09:56 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I'd love to have a million LPs and the equipment to make them sound great but it's just not possible in my lifestyle. I am very happy with the Sonos thing I use now. It streams anything, sounds pretty good, and has an easy, elegant program/app that always works. I can move the speaker into the yard and play it there if I want.

Remember Tech Hi-Fi? They were Nordstrom to Crazy Eddie's Woolworth's. I had this very book, from 1981 I think. One of the most powerful sales pitches ever.

[youtube:3m2y0big]L49T4zS9g6g[/youtube:3m2y0big]

seawolf17
Jul 26 2013 11:24 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
I'd love to have a million LPs and the equipment to make them sound great but it's just not possible in my lifestyle.

This. Probably 90% of my music listening time is in my car, where the quality doesn't matter, or in my office, where the volume is turned way down so my iPod doesn't shuffle to something with cuss words and offend a potential applicant. So quality is nice, but I'd much rather just have the tunes.

Edgy MD
Oct 14 2013 07:26 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

David Byrne: 'The internet will suck all creative content out of the world'

For a band of four people that makes a 15% royalty from Spotify streams, it would take 236,549,020 streams for each person to earn a minimum wage of $15,080 (£9,435) a year. For perspective, Daft Punk's song of the summer, "Get Lucky", reached 104,760,000 Spotify streams by the end of August: the two Daft Punk guys stand to make somewhere around $13,000 each. Not bad, but remember this is just one song from a lengthy recording that took a lot of time and money to develop. That won't pay their bills if it's their principal source of income. And what happens to the bands who don't have massive international summer hits?

batmagadanleadoff
Dec 11 2013 05:48 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Led Zeppelin Says Screw It, Joins Spotify

[fimg=555]http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2013/1211/grant_g_led_sl_640.jpg&w=640&h=360[/fimg]

Led Zeppelin, one of the very last iconic bands to withhold their songs from streaming services, finally caved. Spotify added the first two albums today and will continue adding two releases per day until Sunday, when the rest of the catalogue will be added. Strange strategy, but terribly exciting for the 450 people who've been waiting their entire teenage lives to hear Led Zeppelin while wanting to do it chronologically, record by record, without paying any money, while also experiencing at least a little of the between-albums anticipation fans must have felt in real time. I guess. (Despite the rollout weirdness, it's great news. If you've got all the Zep records in your iTunes but use Spotify much more [hi!], this changes everything/some of your playlists.)


http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood ... in-spotify

Mets – Willets Point
Jan 09 2014 10:31 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Those of you who use these streaming things on your phone, how do you get them to work in places without a signal? I haven't tried Rdio or Spotify, but Pandora goes dead on the subway. The phone doesn't have much space for mp3s either.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jan 09 2014 10:37 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Rdio works anywhere as long as you "sync" what you want to hear first.

Select what you wish to sync on the desktop application, then sync it using the mobile app (takes only a minute or so using wifi). I usually have a few different playlists and albums synced.

Mets – Willets Point
Jan 09 2014 10:43 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Does the sync'ing take up a lot of space on the phone (say, compared with the same number of mp3s)?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jan 09 2014 10:49 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I don't really know but I keep the list fairly small to be safe (~10 albums, 3 playlists at a time) and just try to delete 1 when I add 1. I also don't bother with mp3's, only a small number on my phone.

Mets – Willets Point
Feb 27 2014 08:20 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

OK, I finally signed up for the 2 week demo of Rdio and I think I'm sold. It works a lot better than I imagined. Thanks for the recommendation!

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Feb 27 2014 09:14 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Nice. I know there's a free model now that streams ads as well as songs, but I'm convinced ad-less experience is worth the $$.

seawolf17
Feb 28 2014 07:47 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Ordered two CDs the other day ($57, with shipping) because my favorite band is British and their stuff isn't available in the States. Birthday gift to myself, I guess.

Le sigh.

Mets – Willets Point
Feb 28 2014 10:05 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Nice. I know there's a free model now that streams ads as well as songs, but I'm convinced ad-less experience is worth the $$.


The ad version doesn't work on mobile devices either. I was turned off by the $10 a month at first because that's $120 a year and I could by like 10 albums with that and not have them evaporate when subscription expires. But then I realized there are albums I buy and then don't listen to after a few times so it may be more affordable to listen them on Rdio and then only buy the ones I really like. And in the meantime the artists still get a tiny bit of dough from Rdio, which is better than nothing.

batmagadanleadoff
May 21 2014 11:26 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

My newest toy (and I'm betting that I'm the last music collector here to know about this) is the youtube to mp3 converter.

http://www.youtube-mp3.org/

It separates the audio from any youtube video and then converts and downloads the audio into mp3 format for your iTUnes, ipod or wherever else you store your mp3's. It's totally legal, too. The New York Times reported on this web site. I was surprised that this could be legal, but its' legality is based on the principle that one can record music off of a radio station for private listening. I don't agree with the analogy but I ain't complaining, either.

The first mp3's I downloaded were Satisfaction from the Stones '69 historical MSG concert. The song appears in the film Gimme Shelter, but not on the Get Yer Ya Ya's Out album, and then, Jumpin' Jack Flash, same source. Flash is the opening concert number, and appears in both the film and live album. But Mick Taylor's guitar solo was dubbed out of the album.

[youtube]cz5uWBl_35o[/youtube]

G-Fafif
May 21 2014 11:42 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

This one, too:

http://convert2mp3.net/en/

I've found it usually runs as fast as EYJ.

seawolf17
May 21 2014 11:48 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I use listentoyoutube.com.

batmagadanleadoff
May 21 2014 11:50 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Not only am I the last to know, but there are a whole slew of other sites that perform the same trick, that I don't know about. Any time limits on those other sites. The site I discovered won't convert a video longer than x (where x, if I remember, is either 10 or 20 minutes).

Ceetar
May 21 2014 11:59 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

In a pinch, you can always click record on the Windows application Sound Recorder and hit play on the youtube video.

batmagadanleadoff
Jun 02 2014 09:59 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Get the Led out -- 2014!



http://www.mojo4music.com/12781/led-zep ... rive-last/

batmagadanleadoff
Jul 07 2014 04:22 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

538 - the web site that keeps on giving.

Dear Mona:

I still buy CDs. Am I normal?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/dear ... -i-normal/

Ceetar
Jul 08 2014 07:11 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
538 - the web site that keeps on giving.

Dear Mona:

I still buy CDs. Am I normal?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/dear ... -i-normal/


I equate this a lot to the whole "Baseball ratings plummeting" story lines. How do you equate streaming to CD sales? How to account for the captive audience prior to digital where if you wanted the one song you had to buy the whole CD? How do you equate piracy to previous sales. Me, for instance. I might torrent an album or song, but that's not instead of buying it, that's instead of ignoring it completely. Now ask the artist if they'd rather me listen to the song and enjoy it, or not even remember who they are in a weeks time? Me knowing, and perhaps liking, the artist might lead me to support them in the future, whether that's in actual music sales or a concert or a t-shirt or simply talking about it. The "simply talking about it" aspect is often overlooked. The value of trending and having your name out there.

But that's exactly it. The 'trending' is what the record labels, or publishing companies, or national news media, or whatever, used to do. We need to stop acting like their metrics are the best measuring stick for anything but their own profits.

Mets – Willets Point
Jul 08 2014 07:43 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Still using Rdio. Works great most of the time. Is there a way to make something other than "Heavy Rotation" the default when I first open the app? Like, perhaps my "Collection."

HahnSolo
Jul 08 2014 08:22 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Not only am I the last to know, but there are a whole slew of other sites that perform the same trick, that I don't know about. Any time limits on those other sites. The site I discovered won't convert a video longer than x (where x, if I remember, is either 10 or 20 minutes).


You're not the last to know. Thanks for the link.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jul 08 2014 08:26 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
Still using Rdio. Works great most of the time. Is there a way to make something other than "Heavy Rotation" the default when I first open the app? Like, perhaps my "Collection."


Don't think so? I never use heavy rotation either, I just click over to recent activity

batmagadanleadoff
Jul 09 2014 09:24 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

[fimg=222]http://s2.wp.com/wp-content/themes/vip/espn-grantland/img/grantland-logo.png[/fimg]



Music
The CD Case

Compact discs may be more out of vogue than ever, but some albums will always sound best with lasers
by Steven Hyden on July 8, 2014

There are approximately 100 compact discs on my desk right now. Behind me are two racks holding another 2,000 discs. In my basement, there’s an additional couple thousand, and in my mother’s basement there are about a dozen boxes holding hundreds more of my passionately adored glorified coasters.

I collect vinyl, too, and I’ve held on to some old cassettes. And of course I have two hard drives full of MP3s and a paid subscription to a music streaming service. But at heart I’m a CD collector. I still own CDs I purchased when I was 14. I haven’t retained anything else from when I was 14, except for my teeth. It’s possible my copy of the Singles soundtrack will outlive my molars.

Not only have I not gotten rid of my old CDs, I also buy new CDs nearly every week. Call it loyalty or lunacy, but the CD remains my preferred music delivery device. It’s more convenient than vinyl and more tangible than digital. I like the sense of continuity it gives my music collection, jumbling up records I bought in 1992 with 2003 and 2011 and yesterday. I like picking out discs for car rides and letting them collect over the course of weeks in the backseat. The rest I like looking at on display in my office — it’s part monument, part money pit, part mirror, part climbing hazard for my 2-year-old son.

Even if I wanted to sell my CDs, I probably couldn’t, and I actually like that, too. Used CDs are worth virtually nothing now. But the upside of this is that you can buy older albums on disc for virtually nothing. I’m sympathetic to arguments that Amazon is an evil empire, but I must admit to conspiring with the enemy to build my collection of Miles Davis and Joni Mitchell albums, at prices much lower than the downloads. Accumulating has never been easier, and my shelf space never tighter.

Perhaps I should feel a little embarrassed admitting to all of this. There’s a lot of pressure in our culture right now to essentially imagine CDs out of existence, to mentally finish off what the market is slowly suffocating. Over and over, we’re told that nobody buys them anymore. Only two demographics are commonly identified as CD purchasers in 2014: “old people” and “the semi-Amish not-quite-olds who can’t figure out technology,” the implication being that anybody who knows better wouldn’t bother. CDs currently exist in a cultural no-man’s-land recently defined by singer-songwriter Todd Snider as “post-hip, pre-retro”1 — the format is passé, but not so passé that it qualifies for reclamation.

CDs outsell vinyl records many times over, but CDs don’t have nearly the cachet or booster-ish press coverage. Even cassettes have been revived by indie labels like Burger Records, which are successfully remaking cheap, junky, and sonically wobbly plastic-encased media as collectible boutique items. (This partly explains why, at this very moment, there are cool kids listening to White Lion tapes post-ironically at the trendiest dive bar in your neighborhood.) CD buyers, meanwhile, are made to feel like we’re living in a Richard Matheson story. Just last week, it was reported that CD sales in the first half of 2014 fell 19.6 percent from the first half of 2013.2 Last year, CD sales represented 57.2 percent of total album sales, which was 10.4 percentage points lower than 2011, when CDs were already in steep decline.

This may sound like the death rattle of a medium, but I prefer taking a glass-half-full perspective: Can you believe that CDs still account for even that many album sales? It’s like discovering that Hollywood is secretly subsidized by VHS hoarders. Apparently there are at least a few people like me still out there: In the past six months, 62.9 million CDs were sold, nearly 10 million more than the 53.8 million downloaded albums. It might be a far cry from the 70.3 billion songs that were streamed during the period, but it’s also a hell of a lot more than “nobody.”

Regular listeners of the WTF With Marc Maron podcast know that at some point in each episode — probably during the monologue, but sometimes during the interview — Maron will typically talk about his love of listening to albums on vinyl. If he mentions a particular artist, it will most likely be Creedence Clearwater Revival. (One out of three times it will be “first four albums”–era Black Sabbath.) Now, I would be as annoyed by a middle-aged man pontificating on the purity of hearing music on wax as you probably are if I didn’t happen to agree with Maron. Listening to CCR on vinyl is indeed phenomenal. Can I interest you in Side 1 of Cosmo’s Factory — hey, where are you going?

My point is, just as there are albums that are well suited to vinyl, there are other albums that work best in other formats. If we are talking Young MC’s Stone Cold Rhymin’, Fine Young Cannibals’ The Raw & The Cooked, or Adam Sandler’s They’re All Gonna Laugh At You! — to name three random but scientifically sound examples — I think we can all agree that shelling out $29.99 for a deluxe vinyl to be played on a stupidly expensive turntable just doesn’t seem right. Those records demand to be played on tape, preferably on a boom box that was purchased in the electronics section of a department store that went out of business in 1993. It feels appropriate to hear those albums this way, just as hearing “Lodi” with pops and crackles feels appropriate.

As for the CD format, I can’t imagine listening to, say, Green Day’s Dookie any other way. Dookie is to CDs what Creedence is to vinyl. It is a record resting eternally in the collective memories of aging music fans, a lost piece of data tucked inside scarcely used multidisc changers and laundry baskets full of shit leftover from collegiate apartments. The Beastie Boys’ Check Your Head is like that, too. So are Odelay, Siamese Dream, and Exile in Guyville.3 You can’t hear those records without anticipating the parts where the disc is scratched to hell and won’t stop skipping.

I realize that my pro-CD argument may seem like it’s predicated entirely on personal experience and nostalgia. There’s no reason anyone hearing Dookie for the first time today can’t enjoy it via streaming. But I’m not disparaging new technology or changes in music consumption; rather, I’m making a case for CDs enhancing the listening experience for certain kinds of albums.

And I have reason to believe I’m not alone here. A few years ago I interviewed Father John Misty, early in the promotional cycle for his excellent 2012 album Fear Fun. At the start of our conversation, he casually alluded to listening to Slayer’s Seasons in the Abyss right before I phoned.

“That’s crazy,”4 I said, “I just bought Seasons in the Abyss at a used CD store yesterday.”

“It’s a very CD kind of album,” he replied.

Exactly.

Just in case not everyone is convinced by what Father John and I are talking about here, I will attempt to make my case with greater clarity by listing five types of albums that justify the continued existence of CDs.
1. Albums that make 79 minutes feel like a (mostly enjoyable) eternity

One thing that people who love CDs and people who hate CDs can agree on is that the format encourages the creation of big, fat, impossibly unwieldy blocks of music. Compact discs can store more information than vinyl and cassettes, and for a while in the ’90s, artists were obliged to fill up every last available byte of space on those silver discs, for better or worse. CDs therefore ushered in a golden (or “golden”) age of long-ass albums. Granted, in many cases this resulted in excessive records that only masochists (and possibly Matt Pinfield) ever played all the way through. But every now and then, a band managed to capitalize on the maxing-the-hell-out-of-your-record potential of the compact disc.

Take Lateralus, the third album by prog-metal band Tool. Lateralus clocks in at 78 minutes and 58 seconds. It is the longest single-disc CD that I own. It is two minutes and 11 seconds longer than Wilco’s Being There, which is packaged on two CDs. But Being There is consciously presented as a CD that wants to be a vinyl record, while Lateralus is a CD that was made to be a CD. Being There forces you to change discs in the middle of the record, while Lateralus just keeps going and going with machinelike steadiness. Being There tries to warm the digital chill of CDs, while Lateralus climbs into a very deep freeze.5

You can stream Lateralus if you want. (Not on paid services, as the band doesn’t allow it; YouTube, however, offers numerous streams presumably posted by fans.) But you’ll never finish it that way. It is physically impossible to play an album that is 78 minutes and 58 seconds long when you also have access to a billion other songs. At some point — perhaps after enjoying Danny Carey’s kinetic drum fills on “Ticks & Leeches,” though likely long before that — your trigger finger will get itchy. Lateralus must be played on a CD player located on the opposite side of the room from where you are seated, presumably after you have been immobilized by an oversize turkey sandwich or horse tranquilizers. Only then can the greatness of this record be revealed.
2. Albums that utilize sketches, between-song musical interludes, or other interstitial material

A good case study in how changing formats have affected the way that art is not only packaged but also actually conceived and created is Kanye West’s discography. His first album, 2004’s The College Dropout, is his longest. It is 36 minutes longer than his most recent (and shortest) LP, 2013’s Yeezus, a record largely experienced by listeners online. Dropout and 2005’s Late Registration (his second-longest record) have the most sketches, and they’re also West’s best-selling albums in a physical format. He has largely forsaken skits since then, with the exception of 2010’s My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, which is arguably his best album-length statement and worst album to play in a bar.

The lesson: Artists are less inclined to put certain kinds of tracks on a record if they think people will never play them.

Now, you could call this a welcome evolution and I wouldn’t disagree. But on rap records where skits play an important role — like Snoop Dogg’s Doggystyle, De La Soul’s 3 Feet High and Rising, or any Public Enemy album — the CD format is ideal for appreciating the linear construction and occasional nonlinear digressions. It’s one thing to punch up “Tha Shiznit,” but what about the (easily skippable) interstitial track “W Balls”? Are you going to stream “W Balls”? Because “W Balls” is essential, man.
3. Albums with hidden tracks

With a few exceptions (most notably “Her Majesty” at the end of the Beatles’ Abbey Road), the practice of placing songs not listed on the album sleeve at the end of a record didn’t become commonplace until the CD era. For a few years, they were a fixture on seemingly every significant album, from Nevermind (“Endless, Nameless”) to The Chronic (“Bitches Ain’t Shit”). In retrospect, this seems like a waste of time. But it speaks to what makes listening to music on CD unique.

Those who proselytize about vinyl tend to value the ritual of the listening experience — sifting through stacks of records, placing one on the turntable, and then getting back up 20 minutes later to either flip the record or put on something new. Those who stream music tend to like the anti-ritual of the listening experience — the ability to just press play and allow a limitless supply of music to play as your attention wanders.

The CD listening experience exists at the happy medium between these extremes — there’s the ritual of putting on a physical disc, but sometimes after having the same album on for more than an hour, your brain needs something to shock it back into consciousness. This is why hidden tracks were invented.
4. Albums that go meta and reference being played on CD

The top two all-time instances of this happening are as follows:

• “Hova Song” at the start of Jay Z’s Vol. 3: The Life and Times of S. Carter, when Jay says, “Yeah, I know you just ripped the packaging off your CD / If you like me, you reading the credits right now.” Somehow, the translation for the streaming era gets you less hyped for the rest of the record: “Yeah, I know an algorithm directed you to this track / If you like me, your attention is divided among 27 other tabs right now.”

• The “Hello, CD listeners” hidden track at the midpoint of Tom Petty’s Full Moon Fever, when Petty stops the record for a few moments in fairness to vinyl and cassette listeners.
5. Albums that are Zaireeka

I guess it’s possible to make a record that can only be wholly heard by playing four audio streams at once. I suppose you could do that with four different vinyl records, too. (Jack White might be attempting this as we speak.) The Flaming Lips initiated a series of self-described “experiments” around the release of Zaireeka using cassettes played simultaneously on boom boxes, and in 2011 released a 12-part “symphony” intended to be played on multiple mobile phones. But Zaireeka is different in that it’s a stupid idea that turns out surprisingly well when you try it. Like the CD itself, Zaireeka is impractical and its existence made more sense 15 years ago, but I’m glad it’s still around.

Notes

1 In his hilarious new book that everybody should read immediately, I Never Met A Story I Didn’t Like: Mostly True Tall Tales, Snider uses the phrase “talk to the hand” as his “post-hip, pre-retro” example. I love this man.

2 To be fair, overall album sales are down 14.9 percent, with digital album downloads down 11.6 percent and vinyl LPs up 40 percent.

3 I would also add that black-and-white Operation Ivy compilation from the early ’90s, but that could just be me.

4 This isn’t actually “crazy,” it’s merely a coincidence.

5 Axl Rose has been widely pilloried for releasing two sprawling Guns N’ Roses albums, Use Your Illusion I and Use Your Illusion II, on the same day in 1991. But those albums each clock in at around 75 minutes, which means they could have been justifiably divided across four discs. In this respect, Axl was relatively prudent.



http://grantland.com/features/the-case-for-cds/

TheOldMole
Jul 12 2014 07:15 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Not at all any more,and I don't listen to my old fashioned connection. But I still have nostalgia for the days when I was a serious collector, and if can't pass a bin of 45s without stopping to look.

batmagadanleadoff
Aug 02 2014 09:52 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I haven't upgraded my iTunes in years, always ignoring the notice that a new version is available. Finally, I had no choice -- replacing my PC and all, and boy does this new version blow. No more cover flow. And I can't find anything. Nothing is where it oughtta be anymore. They always change everything. Like an album view with all the tracks and the # of plays, and star ratings I gave some of the songs. Where the hell did that go?

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 03 2014 09:02 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

My computer is so old that I can't upgrade iTunes. I get admonishments popping up nearly daily, but if they can't make the program work on my OS they can just screw off.

d'Kong76
Aug 04 2014 06:08 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Weren't you the original Apple-or-nothing guy here?

Mets – Willets Point
Aug 05 2014 11:17 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

d'Kong76 wrote:
Weren't you the original Apple-or-nothing guy here?


Not me. I do have an Apple iMac, but I got it on sale because my sister was part-timing at the Apple Store back then. I'm pretty much brand agnostic.

batmagadanleadoff
Aug 10 2014 12:51 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
I haven't upgraded my iTunes in years, always ignoring the notice that a new version is available. Finally, I had no choice -- replacing my PC and all, and boy does this new version blow. No more cover flow. And I can't find anything. Nothing is where it oughtta be anymore. They always change everything. Like an album view with all the tracks and the # of plays, and star ratings I gave some of the songs. Where the hell did that go?


This new version of iTunes I'm running (11.3.1.2) is a nightmare. It doesn't accept MP3's converted from Youtube. I googled this issue and it's a common problem. The solutions out there on the web are useless - a combination of gibberish, wiseass comments, and well-intentioned advice that doesn't help. The converter downloads the MP3's into my PC, but it's not going into iTunes. I've tried to manually move the converted MP3's into my iTUnes folder, but that doesn't work either. iTunes won't play the MP3's converted from videos.

Anyone else encounter this? Anyone know a fix? Don't upgrade to the new iTunes if there isn't a fix. I'm guessing that iTunes is blocking these converter programs because they're cutting into the $$ Apple makes from selling songs.

Ceetar
Aug 10 2014 11:09 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
batmagadanleadoff wrote:
I haven't upgraded my iTunes in years, always ignoring the notice that a new version is available. Finally, I had no choice -- replacing my PC and all, and boy does this new version blow. No more cover flow. And I can't find anything. Nothing is where it oughtta be anymore. They always change everything. Like an album view with all the tracks and the # of plays, and star ratings I gave some of the songs. Where the hell did that go?


This new version of iTunes I'm running (11.3.1.2) is a nightmare. It doesn't accept MP3's converted from Youtube. I googled this issue and it's a common problem. The solutions out there on the web are useless - a combination of gibberish, wiseass comments, and well-intentioned advice that doesn't help. The converter downloads the MP3's into my PC, but it's not going into iTunes. I've tried to manually move the converted MP3's into my iTUnes folder, but that doesn't work either. iTunes won't play the MP3's converted from videos.

Anyone else encounter this? Anyone know a fix? Don't upgrade to the new iTunes if there isn't a fix. I'm guessing that iTunes is blocking these converter programs because they're cutting into the $$ Apple makes from selling songs.


I've encountered similar "wrong mp3 version" issues with old version of iTunes back when I had an iPod. There are programs out there, some of them free/trial (I'm using xilisoft audio converter but pirated) even, to convert to the proper version or simply to .AAC.

themetfairy
Aug 10 2014 11:14 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Several years ago, one of iTunes' "upgrades" totally wiped out my ability to use the program on my PC. After hours on the phone with tech support, Apple wiped its hands of the mess of its own creation. I was eventually able to figure out that an update of Shockwave would solve the problem, but since then I've stayed away from any iTunes updates.

d'Kong76
Aug 10 2014 11:27 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Running iTunes on a PC has historically been an adventure
since it's inception.

batmagadanleadoff
Aug 10 2014 01:41 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I found two sites, this one --http://www.oldapps.com/itunes.php, and another where you can download old apps, including older versions of iTunes. I don't trust the sites, figgering that I'm gonna get all kinds of unwanted extra crap and maybe some viruses or malware to boot. But I still have my old PC. So I'm gonna use the old PC as a guinea pig in this experiment and try and download an older version of iTunes on that.

batmagadanleadoff
Aug 10 2014 02:22 PM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Well, that did nothing. I downloaded an old iTunes version and it didn't take. Still have the crappy new version that doesn't have a cover flow and prevents me from legally loading songs stripped from youtube videos. I'm sure I just infected my old PC with some nasty stuff in the process.

seawolf17
Aug 11 2014 07:59 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I've never had a problem with the mp3s I've pulled off "listentoyoutube" in iTunes.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 11 2014 09:44 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

iTunes is so 2005, man. Get with the cool kids already.

batmagadanleadoff
Aug 11 2014 11:05 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I'm giving myself one giant clapper because I solved the problem of the disabled converted MP3's all by myself without any help from anyone. I got the idea to open up the file properties of one of those disabled MP3's and compare it to the file properties of some MP3 that plays in iTUnes to see if there were any differences.

I didn't have to make any comparisons. As soon as I right clicked on the file properties for one of the disabled songs, I saw a message inside the property box that said that the song was blocked. There was a check or select box at the bottom of the file properties box to "unblock" the song. I clicked unblock and was then able to open the MP3 in iTunes.

[fimg=555]http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111222140534/uncyclopedia/images/b/bf/Audience-clapping.gif[/fimg]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
iTunes is so 2005, man. Get with the cool kids already.


I'm turning into a square. Do the cool kids even say "square"? I'd bet that iTunes aside, just using the word "square" makes you a square.

batmagadanleadoff
Sep 15 2014 09:18 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Man, I guess you could now file the MP3 under old fashioned.

On Death and iPods: A Requiem

By Mat Honan
09.12.14 |
9:00 am |
Permalink



Have you ever loved a car? Maybe it was an old truck you drove for hundreds of thousands of miles, or maybe it was your very first car: where you had your very first beer and your very first kiss. You can love a car and keep on loving it as long as you don’t crash it. If you’re willing to maintain it, you can keep driving it basically forever. Maybe some day it’ll be old enough that you’ll get thumbs-ups from cool kids as you putter down the street in your charmingly vintage car. This is not the case with gadgets—even though, for many of us, our old gadgets were way more important than our old cars.

Gadgets come and go from our lives. Technology marches forward so rapidly that even if you could replace a broken part—which often you can’t—doing so just wouldn’t make any sense. Other times, the networks and services those gadgets depend on to keep running go away entirely. Gadgets die, even the ones we love.

When the 1990s were getting older, there was this crazy new music format called MP3. It wasn’t the greatest audio format, but it was good enough. It was compressed in such a way that it was easy to download, and yet sounded good to most normal people. Suddenly, you could download a whole album’s worth of music to your computer. And, for me at least, that music was free. (Because I stole it.)
“You can fit your whole music library in your pocket. Never before possible.” Holy. Shit.

Since its advent, recorded music had been a scarce commodity. You had to work hard to get money to pay for compact discs or cassettes or long play vinyl records. Even blank tapes cost money. That preciousness led to a kind of curation you don’t really see anymore. You had to make choices, because you couldn’t have it all. Your music collection defined you. It was your music.

But then the internet gave us FTP and then Napster and so, so many places to steal music. It fit so perfectly with the libertine zeitgeist of the turn of the millennium. Information wanted to be free! And music, organized into digital files, was just information. Now we could have it in limitless supply.

For most of us, MP3 was still a thing you played on your computer. There were a few attempts to liberate it—little flash players that would barely hold an album, or hard-drive based jukeboxes that were too big and too delicate to be useful. They were all awful.

Then one day in October 2001, Apple invited a bunch of journalists down to see some new thing it had. I was working at Macworld magazine at the time. (Which, like the iPod, died this week. Pour one out.) We all knew it was going to be a music thing, and were even expecting an MP3 player. I remember wanting to go, and being envious of the people who were selected to cover it. It was intriguing and mysterious. What would Apple do? Would they release some little flash thing, or a giant jukebox?

Apple keynotes weren’t such a big deal back then. Sure, they were great. Steve Jobs was already doing the things he would become famous for doing, but back then he was mostly talking about Macs and OS X and software nobody except a handful of nerds cared about.

But that iPod event—the Apple “music” event—changed everything else that would come after, for Apple and the rest of us, too. Because like Steve Jobs said that day, with his dad jeans on, “you can fit your whole music library in your pocket. Never before possible.”

Holy. Shit.
Looking at someone’s iPod was like looking into their soul.

The other reporters came back with those little white MP3 players, and big boxes of compact discs. See, Apple pre-loaded the music players—the iPods, but you knew I was talking about iPods—with music from Real Bands. But they couldn’t legally give out the iPods with MP3s unless they also purchased a copy of every CD. So everyone got two copies of each album: one on the iPod, the other on a piece of plastic. Nobody who went to the event kept the CDs, they just piled them up on a table at the office. I still have one, Simon and Garfunkel’s Bookends, because, while Apple design may be the coolest thing around, the company has always, always had shitty taste in music. (See also: U2.)

Nobody had seen anything like it before. It had a 5GB hard drive packed into a device the size of a pack of cigarettes. I didn’t even know anyone was making hard drives that small. To get through all your songs, it had this wheel that let you click and click and clickckckckckckckckckckck your way through thousands and thousands of songs.

It cost $400. Out of my price range, by a long shot. (I was a junior editor at Macworld trying to pay rent in San Francisco.) But I saved and saved until I could afford one.

Suddenly, they were everywhere. White earbuds on the bus. White earbuds on the plane. White earbuds on every street I walked down, in every city in America. Sometimes you’d go to a party, and the host would leave the iPod hooked up to the speakers, so everyone could take turns DJing. Click the wheel and rock the party.

Music changed. There was a very real sense that Apple was abetting music piracy, which only made it cooler. Who could possibly be buying 10,000 songs? And so Apple made its own store, and slowly we started buying music again. Our music. Our songs. We entered the era of the single and the playlist. The track mattered and the album did not. Whole genres just vanished into the maw of the playlist.

We made playlists that spoke to the lives we lived at the moment. Looking at someone’s iPod was like looking into their soul. In their music you could see who they were. You could tell if they were sophisticated or rough. You could see in their playlists the moments they fell in love and the moments they fell back out again. You could see the filthiest, nastiest hip hop in the little white boxes of the primmest people, and know their inner lives a little better than you did before.
The iPhone is about as subversive as a bag of potato chips, and music doesn’t define anyone anymore.

For ten years my iPod—in various incarnations—was my constant companion. It went with me on road trips and backpacking through the wilderness. I ran with it. I swam with it. (In a waterproof case!) I listened to sad songs that reminded me of friends and family no longer with me. I made a playlist for my wife to listen to during the birth of our first child, and took the iPod with us to the hospital. I took one to a friend’s wedding in Denmark, where they saved money on a DJ by running a four hour playlist, right from my iPod. And because the party lasted all night, they played it again.

Everyone played everything again and again.

And now it’s dead. Gone from the Apple Store. Disappeared, while we were all looking at some glorified watch.

In all likelihood we’re not just seeing the death of the iPod Classic, but the death of the dedicated portable music player. Now it’s all phones and apps. Everything is a camera. The single-use device is gone—and with it, the very notion of cool that it once carried. The iPhone is about as subversive as a bag of potato chips, and music doesn’t define anyone anymore.

Soon there will be no such thing as your music library. There will be no such thing as your music. We had it all wrong! Information doesn’t want to be free, it wants to be a commodity. It wants to be packaged into apps that differ only in terms of interface and pricing models. It wants to be rented. It wants to reveal nothing too personal, because we broadcast it to Facebook and we should probably turn on a private session so our boss doesn’t see that we listen to Anaconda on repeat and think we’re high at work. (Point of information: Why is he on Facebook at work?)

There’s an iPod Classic in the console of my car. It’s the third full-sized iPod that I’ve owned, and if I could, I’d keep it forever. But there’s no way to maintain it, not practically. One day it’s going to die. Its little hard drive will seize up, and cease. Everything on it will effectively vanish. I guess, really, it’s gone already—and it has been for a few years now.

I miss the time when we were still defined by our music. When our music was still our music. I miss being younger, with a head full of subversive ideas; white cables snaking down my neck, stolen songs in my pocket. There will never be an app for that.


http://www.wired.com/2014/09/rip-ipod/

seawolf17
Sep 15 2014 09:23 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

Well, shit.

I should buy a backup now so I have one when my 160gb iPod goes.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Sep 15 2014 10:13 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

I walked through the new(-ish) Rough Trade record store in Williamsburg over the weekend, it's a big vinyl store like in the old days, except: LPs seemed to start at $26 apiece, with many from the 60s and 70s section priced at $38+, with stickers noting new quality vinyl pressing or whatever. But there's no option for standard quality at a lower retail, and definitely no THE NICE PRICE stickers that helped me afford what little music I could buy when I was a kid.



Also, the display of top sellers included all your big indy favorites of today... and DARE by the Human League.

Also, there was nobody in the place.

sharpie
Sep 15 2014 11:55 AM
Re: Anybody here still buy their music the old fashioned way

It's a great looking store and apparently has a good venue in there for seeing music but it's way too expensive. Amoeba Music in SF and LA know how to do it right - gigantic selection at very cheap prices.