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Best Outfield Arms

Edgy MD May 13 2013 02:05 PM

No order, but... Mays Youngblood Valentine Burnitz Hidalgo Francouer Sheff Snider Claudell McReynolds ...Ankiel. Mays, Sheff, and Snider were obviously past their best years, but make the cut nonetheless, if only honorarily. Hopefully Ankiel won't fall into that category, because he's not bringing much to the table, so he better bring all of it. Who else? Derek f'n' Bell? Endy? Timo kinda.

Ceetar May 13 2013 02:10 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Cliff Floyd had a 9.4 ARM rating on Fangraphs in 2004.(2010 Francoeur had a 9.7) 04 Cameron 2.7 05 Beltran 1.5 only goes back to 02 though.

Frayed Knot May 13 2013 02:13 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

I remember a long ago SI article on outfield arms. In it, scouts and execs were discussing their favorites, the strongest, the best, and whatnot. And as they talked they put some guys in the 'Great' category, and then others maybe slightly below that although not all lists agreed. But then, in the view of just about everyone, separate and above all others, there was Ellis Valentine. They talked about his arm is total awe and wonder.

Edgy MD May 13 2013 02:17 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Yeah, Floydie deserves to join McReynolds among leftfielders in this group. Cut ahead to about .50 here to get some the throwing plays. [youtube:2lu75hsb]Mxty8xnRchQ[/youtube:2lu75hsb]

Benjamin Grimm May 13 2013 02:32 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Darryl Strawberry?

Edgy MD May 13 2013 02:32 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Funny, I distinctly remember including him, but I didn't. Definitely Straw.

G-Fafif May 13 2013 03:09 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Milledge.

Swan Swan H May 13 2013 03:15 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Rusty could throw his first time through town.

Zvon May 13 2013 06:05 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Swan Swan H wrote: Rusty could throw his first time through town. He could throw in mid air. He might have been the first player I ever saw do that. Not really throw in mid air, but he'd throw his body behind it and fly/tumble forward after release. I thought that the extra effort was pretty kool and even did it a few times playing softball.

Frayed Knot May 13 2013 06:22 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Swan Swan H wrote: Rusty could throw his first time through town. Until that wall crash in the '73 NLCS. Don't think his arm was ever the same after that. My favorite Ellis Valentine throw involved him and Pete Rose -- it could have been this game Rose was on 1st via a lead-off single when Manny Trillo hit a pitching wedge of a shot to medium-shallow RF just inside the line. Valentine, charging in and over towards the line, fields the ball on it's first high hop and, in one motion, does a 270-degree spin-o-rama in order to uncork a knee-high bullet to 3B where Hubie Brooks swipes the tag through the cloud of dust and right across the forearms of the head-first diving Rose. It would take a Hollywood director about 30 cuts to get the timing as perfect as how that high-speed ballet played out and even then he'd probably have to throw in some CGI to make it look as good.

RealityChuck May 13 2013 06:43 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Roberto Clemente. [youtube:23kwnk58]kjuphRH_T58[/youtube:23kwnk58]

Edgy MD May 13 2013 06:51 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Well, that's not fair.

MFS62 May 14 2013 07:17 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Dave Kingman belongs on that list. Later

Edgy MD May 14 2013 07:27 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Kingman certainly had a strong arm, as a former pitcher, but his mechanics were such that it was never really an effective weapon.

dinosaur jesus May 14 2013 08:07 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Jesse Orosco.

MFS62 May 14 2013 09:05 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Swan Swan H wrote: Rusty could throw his first time through town. Toward the end of his career, Joe DiMaggio had a sore arm. But during the warmups before the first game of every series, he would uncork a strong throw, so the other team could see it, and not take liberties with his arm during a game. They didn't know that he was masking his arm that couldn't do that again for another few days. Later

batmagadanleadoff May 15 2013 08:50 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Jim Hickman.

Swan Swan H May 15 2013 09:28 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Jim Hickman. For some reason I had it in my head that Hickman made the throw that Ray Fosse caught when he was bowled over by Pete Rose in the 1970 All-Star game. My memory fails me. I checked, and he was the guy that got the hit that started the play. A different ex-Met - Amos Otis - made the throw. Hickman only made the one All-Star game, and he never played in the American League.

batmagadanleadoff May 15 2013 09:31 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Swan Swan H wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Jim Hickman. For some reason I had it in my head that Hickman made the throw that Ray Fosse caught when he was bowled over by Pete Rose in the 1970 All-Star game. My memory fails me. I checked, and he was the guy that got the hit that started the play. A different ex-Met - Amos Otis - made the throw. Hickman only made the one All-Star game, and he never played in the American League. Hickman could throw it, so I've read. In fact, Hickman's arm was so strong that he once considered converting to a pitcher during his early Polo Grounds era struggles.

Edgy MD May 15 2013 09:40 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

I wonder who has the better success rate --- batters converting to pitchers or pitchers converting to batters. Going on a black/white binary basis --- did he succeed (become a big league starter) or not --- I wouldn't know which side to bet on. Going on a net-success basis, I think it would have have to be pitchers converting to hitters, just because Babe Ruth would swing the data on all on his own.

dinosaur jesus May 15 2013 10:01 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Edgy MD wrote: I wonder who has the better success rate --- batters converting to pitchers or pitchers converting to batters. Going on a black/white binary basis --- did he succeed (become a big league starter) or not --- I wouldn't know which side to bet on. Going on a net-success basis, I think it would have have to be pitchers converting to hitters, just because Babe Ruth would swing the data on all on his own. My impression is that position players who become pitchers are more likely infielders, especially third basemen, than outfielders. I'm thinking of Bob Lemon and Skip Lockwood. But there are so few who've already been in the major leagues as position players that it's hard to generalize. Another consideration is that is that when someone goes from pitcher to position player, he's probably already shown that he can hit. But if it's the other way around, all anybody knows is that he's got a good arm. Whether he can learn to pitch is another matter. My favorite hitter-to-pitcher conversion is Jimmie Foxx, who decided at the very end of his career that he was a pitcher now. And he was pretty damn good, too: a 1.59 ERA in nine games, and won in his first start.

86-Dreamer May 15 2013 11:28 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Melvin Mora made some nice throws in the '99 playoffs.

TheOldMole May 16 2013 12:23 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Carl Furillo. Because I'm still a Brooklyn Dodger fan.

G-Fafif May 16 2013 07:48 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Speaking up once more for Lastings Milledge who showed off his gun from opposite corners in impressive fashion before his MLB career was much more than a week old. From May 31, 2006: Milledge, who in the second inning misread Johnny Estrada's liner and let it bounce off his glove for an error, sparkled when given another chance. With one out and Craig Counsell on first base, Chad Tracy grounded a single to right field. Milledge fielded the ball and, in one beautifully effortless motion, threw a laser on the fly to third baseman David Wright that beat Counsell by two steps. The fickle crowd, which booed his earlier error, gave him a lengthy standing ovation, and Martínez, Valentín and Wright waited near first base to applaud him. "The whole time the ball was coming, I knew that, if that guy goes, I was going to get him," Milledge said. From June 7, 2006: Milledge hit a two-out, two-run homer off Jae Seo in the seventh to give the Mets a 9-6 lead. Then, Nomar Garciaparra hit a liner down the left field line to open the eighth against Duaner Sanchez, but was thrown out by Milledge trying to stretch the hit into a double. Pinch-hitter Andre Ethier hit a two-out, RBI double later in the inning before Sanchez struck out pinch-hitter Olmedo Saenz to end the inning. Billy Wagner, the Mets' fifth pitcher, worked a 1-2-3 ninth for his 12th save. "You don't know how a young guy is going to do," Mets manager Willie Randolph said of the 21-year-old Milledge, who was playing in his eighth big league game. "It's nice to see the kid help us out. Big, tremendous home run; a great throw. He's making a nice case for himself." Milledge was brought up from the minors last week when Xavier Nady underwent an appendectomy.

Edgy MD May 16 2013 08:00 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Nice salvage work. Dumb question, but why was Xavier Nady's condition in 2006 a trigger for a Milledge promotion. Wasn't he a Pirate by then?

G-Fafif May 16 2013 08:21 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Nady went to Pittsburgh after the midnight ride of Duaner Sanchez, July 31.

metirish May 16 2013 08:21 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Duaner Sanchez was pitching for the Mets, when he got injured they flipped Nady to the Pirates right?

Edgy MD May 16 2013 08:22 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Yeah, I'm fusing 2005 and 2006, somehow.

metirish May 16 2013 08:28 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

I just can't believe it was all so long ago......

MFS62 May 16 2013 08:36 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

TheOldMole wrote: Carl Furillo. Because I'm still a Brooklyn Dodger fan. Do you remember Gino Cimolli? He was playing right in a game at Ebbets Field and tried to throw a runner out going to third. He was a bit over eager, and the throw went into the upper deck behind third base. (At least the throw was on line) Later

batmagadanleadoff May 23 2013 09:46 AM Re: Best Outfield Arms

I've been re-reading William Ryczek's Amazin Mets, 1962-1969 lately (skipping around the book at random) and I came across a reference to Jim Hickman's throwing arm in a passage about the first Mets-Cubs game of September 1969, played at Shea Stadium. Hostilities between the two teams had increased significantly since they last played, months ago. This was the game where Koosman famously drilled Ron Santo as retaliation for Bill Hands' knockdown of Tommie Agee, an inning earlier: The Cubs tied the game in the sixth, but in the bottom half of the inning, Agee hit a shot between Kessinger and Santo. On any other day, it was a single, but the wet grass slowed the ball in the outfield and, Agee never hesitating, slid into second with a double. Wayne Garrett singled to right and Agee took off for the plate. In right field was Jim Hickman, now 32, but still the possessor of a powerful arm. As Agee rounded third and streaked for the plate, Hickman cut loose a strong, accurate throw to Randy Hundley. Hundley had the ball in his mitt before Agee reached the plate, and tagged him on his left side as Agee slid in through the right hand batter's box. Umpire Satch Davidson's view was obscured by Agee's body as it crossed in front of him. Davidson spread his hands in the safe sign, and Hundley leapt high in the air in disbelief. Durocher charged from the Cubs dugout. Hundley and Durocher carried on for some time, but to no avail, and the Mets had a 3-2 lead, which Koosman, throwing harder than he had in weeks, held for the last three innings. (can't find that famous picture of Hundley leaping in protest)

Zvon May 23 2013 03:57 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

batmagadanleadoff wrote: (can't find that famous picture of Hundley leaping in protest) I'm very surprised that I cant find that pic of him jumping on-line. The one below is another view, and my first attempt at colorizing a B&W photo in 2002. This throw below by Bo Jackson is freakin unbelievable, especially seeing that when he caught the ball, he was moving backwards.

Ashie62 May 23 2013 06:23 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Vladimir Guerrero

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 23 2013 06:28 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Hindsight and all, but hard not to suspect Bo was on the juice. I know he's a strong denier and all.

Frayed Knot May 23 2013 06:53 PM Re: Best Outfield Arms

Maybe - although I get the idea that Bo was just one of those ridiculously natural/strong guys who didn't need to do much of anything to look and perform like he did. George Brett used to say that he never wanted to be back in the clubhouse can when Bo came to bat because he didn't want to miss what might happen. And then he would add a mock complaint that he never saw the guy do a single sit-up. In either case, he would have been fun to watch over a longer career. For a guy who barely played in college and then had just 200 minor league ABs before his call-up, he was just starting to learn the sport when the injury from his "hobby" derailed both careers.