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GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Frayed Knot May 18 2013 03:13 PM

Probably only a few folks here are old enough to have received a 'Greetings' letter from the U.S. Gov't back in the day, but at least for them it'll bring back some (not so warm) memories. But anyway, the MLB amateur draft is coming up on June 6th - 8th Mets have #11 pick (the one they did NOT surrender for Michael Bourne) plus choices 48, 76, 84, and then pick #116 and every 30 picks after that. Baseball America starts things off by looking back as they examine the Top 100 draft picks for Position Players only over a 20 year span (1989-2008) and checked how things worked out. http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/to ... ing-names/ What they did was to take those drafted players and divide them into essentially three categories 1) Those who either failed to reach the majors and/or only appeared in fewer than 100 games 2) Those who had played in more than 100 ML games 3) Those termed “Impact” players, defined by 10 career WAR or better They admit that there are still some folks out there, particularly from the more recent drafts, who could change categories still (the Reese Havens of the world for instance) but, now that they've gone five drafts back, there shouldn't be too many. Overall Sample: 917 players drafted: 513 (56%) from High School; 404 (44%) from College >100 Games Played: 350 players or 38% (30% of the HS players, 49% of the college) Impact: 112 or 12.2% - 10.5% from HS; 14.4% college So basically for every Eight players drafted in the Top-100 you can expect five to either never put on a ML uniform or to top out at being a cuppa-coffee guy; three to hang around the majors long enough to get at least 100 games in; and, on average, ONE of those three will become an “impact” player. Of course those odds would vary a lot in small samples and those picks towards the top of the 100 should fare a lot better than those at the bottom. Broken down by Position - although note that this is their position at the time they were drafted and not necessarily where they wound up: Catchers: 146 Drafted (16% of the total) >100 Games = 41% >10 WAR = 12% SS: 205 Drafted (22%) >100 games = 39% >10 WAR = 10% 2B: 29 Drafted (just 3% of the total and almost all of them - 22 - from college) >100 Games = 31% >10 WAR = 10% 3B: 108 Drafted (12%) >100 Games = 41% >10 WAR = 15% 1B: 82 Drafted (9%) >100 Games = 38% >10 WAR = 16% OF: 347 Drafted (38%) >100 Games = 37% >10 WAR = 12%

batmagadanleadoff May 20 2013 01:25 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Joe Posnanski picks a random season (2006) and hindsights it to determine how each team's top prospect did. More evidence confirming just how unlikely it is for a major league amateur draftee to succeed -- even a top prospect. excerpt: Prospects 2006 Bill James wrote a piece the other day about the possible difference between pitching and hitting prospects … and it reminded me of this project I've wanted to do for some time. I wanted to go back through Baseball America's excellent prospect handbooks and see how the best prospects turned out. How often do they succeed? How often do they fail? What is the biggest reason for failure? (I'd guess injury). What is the most promising sign for success? How often do "toolsy" players make it? How about "skilled" players? Well, I haven't had time to dive into that the way I would like. But I did try something. I have all the Baseball America Prospect Handbooks going back to 2003 (with 2001 and 2002 on order). I picked a year at random -- I chose 2006 -- and decided to look at BA's top prospects for each team, who in retrospect was the team's best prospect, what BA said about the player and, finally, what happened. One thing I'd like to say here -- this is NOT about how good Baseball America is at predicting success and failure. No, I see BA as sort of the control factor, if that make sense. I'd say they do the best job in the sport of gathering information and viewpoints from scouts and player development people and general managers and so on. I don't look at these top prospects as Baseball America's opinion. I look at it as the best bet we can find in terms of the CONSENSUS opinion in baseball about these players. And so, what I'm trying to do here is determine how often these prospects hit or miss. The "hitting" and "missing" designation is pointed entirely at the player, not at the people who made the predictions. OK, here we go: * * * New York Mets No. 1 prospect: Lastings Milledge (No. 9 overall). Best actual prospect: No. 3 Carlos Gomez, maybe? Pretty slim pickings. What BA said: "With his package of five tools, Milledge has few peers in the minors … the heart of New York's lineup should be in good shape for years to come." What happened: A mix of off-the-field distractions and on-the-field troubles led the Mets to trade him to Washington and Washington to trade him to Pittsburgh. The White Sox signed him. At last check, he was playing in Japan. Final analysis: Miss.

Vic Sage May 20 2013 01:43 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

the TiTTS say "yea, verily, yea."

batmagadanleadoff May 21 2013 07:42 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

More from Posnanski's 2006 Prospects Review: Oakland A's No. 1 prospect: Daric Barton (No. 28 overall). Best actual prospect: No. 4 Andre Ethier. What BA said: "Hitting comes easy for Barton … his pitch recognition is off the charts." What happened: Barton's pitch recognition WAS off the charts in 2010, when he led the American League with 110 walks. Add in 12 sac hits and five sac flies, he dropped his 686 plate appearances to 556 and managed to hit .273. Since then, he has hit .209 in 113 big league games and has spent much of the time in the minors, where his bat has been silent as well. Final analysis: Miss. * * * Toronto Blue Jays No. 1 prospect: Dustin McGowan (No. 48 overall). Best actual prospect: No. 11 Shaun Marcum. What BA said: "Like many young power pitchers, McGowan struggles to command his fastball … he'll need to refine his fastball command if he's to become the front-of-the-rotation starter the Blue Jays envision." What happened: He did win 12 games and throw 170 or so innings in 2007. But he could not refine his fastball command and he had all sorts of injury problems. Second verse, same as the first. Final analysis: Miss. * * * Arizona Diamondbacks No. 1 prospect: Justin Upton (No. 2 overall). Best actual prospect: Probably Upton, though No. 4 Carlos Gonzalez is in the running. What BA said: "While some scouts have said they would move Upton to center field and envision him becoming the next Ken Griffey, the Diamondbacks have no plans [to move him from short] yet." What happened: Upton is one of those players who is judged against incredibly high expectations -- Baseball America wasn't the only one to compare him to Ken Griffey. One scout told me he had Willie Mays talent. Willie Mays! So, sure, against that backdrop, a .278/.357/.475 career line with a 117 OPS+, a couple of All-Star appearances and annual trade rumors seems drastically disappointing. But, you cannot have a fair conversation about Justin Upton without also mentioning that he just turned 25 in August. He's younger than Pedro Alvarez. He's younger than Cameron Maybin. He's younger than Jay Bruce and Buster Posey and Austin Jackson. His 108 home runs are as many as Cal Ripken had at the same age, more than Reggie Jackson and Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds. You know who is not a bad comparison? Gary Sheffield. Huge prospect. Was called up at 19. Had one excellent year when he was 23: Sheffield at 23: .330/.385/.580 with 33 homers, 100 RBIs, 87 runs. Upton at 23: .289/.369/.529 with 31 homers, 21 steals, 88 RBIs, 105 runs. But Sheffield was also wildly inconsistent until he turned 25 (.285/.346/.451 with a 120 OPS+). From 25 to 30, he posted a 156 OPS+, might have been the best offensive player in the league when he was 27 and so on. This is not to say that Upton WILL emerge into that kind of player, only that he could, that there is a precedent. At the end of each of these prospects, I put what I call the "Final analysis." I'm basically calling that prospect a "Hit" or a "Miss" -- again, the title refers to the player himself and not Baseball America's prediction. This is tough to do because (1) Some of these players, like Upton, are still open-ended stories and (2) Not all prospects are created alike. By that I mean, there were much higher expectations for Justin Upton than for, say, Neil Walker. So, don't you have to judge them differently? Is the bar for Neil Walker set in the same place as the bar for Justin Upton? I kind of doubt it. But to get a count at the end, I need to put a final "Hit" or "Miss" on each prospect. Upton has not become the superstar many expected. But he's a good player with the potential still to step up in class, and I don't think you can call that a miss. Final analysis: Hit.

Edgy MD May 21 2013 07:54 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

The problem with the Sheffy comparisons is that period of consistency and peak productivity coincided with the period when all the rules were out the window.

Frayed Knot May 24 2013 05:29 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Position Players (listed alphabetically) most likely to go at or near the top of the draft: Kris Bryant, 3B, University of San Diego: The best bat in the draft, Bryant is a 6-5, 205 bruiser with outstanding right-handed power and the ability to hit the ball out of any park to all fields. He also has good pure hitting skills, controls the strike zone well, and has a chance to stick at third. Even if he moves over to first base, this is an All-Star caliber bat. He's hit more home runs this year than most college teams. Clint Frazier, OF, Loganville HS, Loganville, Georgia: The red-haired, right-handed, 6-1, 190 pound outfielder has thrived in high school and may have even more bat speed than Bryant, although his approach to hitting (understandably) is less refined. He may wind up in left field, but his bat will certainly play there given his outstanding power potential. His makeup is considered a big plus. Reese McGuire, C, Kentwood HS, Covington, Washington: High school catching is a strength in this draft and McGuire is the best of the lot, a 6-1, 190 pound lefty hitter with athleticism and excellent defensive skills. His hitting is considered solid and this complete package should take him off the board before the middle of the first round, perhaps even in the top five. Austin Meadows, OF, Grayson HS, Loganville, Georgia: Often compared to high school competitor Frazier, Meadows is a lefty hitter at 6-3, 210 pounds. His across-the-board tools may be a bit stronger than Frazier's, but his bat has less zip in it and he plays with less energy. He still projects as a major-league regular and is a lock to go in the top half of the draft. Colin Moran, 3B, University of North Carolina: Bryant's outstanding season has overshadowed the progress Moran (listed at 6-4, 180) has made in tapping into his left-handed power. The nephew of B.J. Surhoff, Moran already had impressive pure hitting skills and excellent plate discipline. His defense has improved, and there are rumors he could go first-overall to the Houston Astros. Hunter Renfroe, OF, Mississippi State University: A burly-but-athletic type at 6-1, 215, Renfroe took a giant step forward this spring as a power hitter thanks to better plate discipline. He's a certain first-rounder at this point and could go in the top ten under certain scenarios. His strong arm would look good in right field. Dominic Smith, 1B, Serra HS, Los Angeles, California: Smith was seen as a first-rounder pre-season due to his bat speed and strong defense and he's done nothing to change that assessment, ticketed for at least the middle of the round and perhaps sooner. He's athletic at 6-1, 200 and projects to hit for both power and average from the left side. and others

Benjamin Grimm May 25 2013 06:05 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Hunter Renfroe, OF, Mississippi State University: A burly-but-athletic type at 6-1, 215, Renfroe took a giant step forward this spring as a power hitter thanks to better plate discipline. He's a certain first-rounder at this point and could go in the top ten under certain scenarios. His strong arm would look good in right field. I find myself kind of rooting for a college outfielder who can get to the Mets ASAP. I don't know if this is the guy, but of those listed he best fits that description.

bmfc1 May 25 2013 07:40 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I'm w/Grimm. One mock had him going to the Mets and that's fine with me.

Frayed Knot May 25 2013 10:11 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Certainly is the type of player you'd like to see here, and the added bonus of the (hopefully) shorter lead time. Doesn't sound like he'll be one of the first few picked either. Several of those [Bryant, Fraizer] are expected to be among the first 4 or 5 picks so we can probably cross them off our wish list right now.

Frayed Knot May 25 2013 10:14 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Meanwhile: Pitchers Gray & Appel likely to be the first to go Mark Appel, RHP, Stanford University: Last year's unsigned first-round pick by the Pirates at eighth overall, Appel's decision to return to school looks wise as he's now slated to go off the board in the first couple of picks. The 6-5, 215-pounder has a mid-90s heater and has added polish to his slider and changeup, giving him top-of-the-rotation upside. Trey Ball, LHP, New Castle HS, New Castle, Indiana: The best lefty in the draft, Ball is a super-projectable 6-6, 180-pounder but already throws in the 90s and has good command of his curveball and change-up. He's very athletic and also a prospect as an outfielder, though teams prefer him on the mound. He should come off the board in the first dozen picks. Jonathan Gray, RHP, University of Oklahoma: Gray shot to the top of the draft boards with an outstanding spring. A 6-4, 240 pound righty, he showed improved command of a 95-100 MPH fastball along with a nasty slider and a decent change-up, pushing past Appel in the eyes of many teams for looking like a future number one starter. He should go first or second overall. Sean Manaea, LHP, Indiana State University: This big 6-5, 235 pound southpaw broke through in the Cape Cod League last summer with an outstanding fastball. His secondary stuff can be erratic and his velocity was up-and-down this spring, but he was still considered a lock to go in the top half of the round. It is unclear how shoulder tightness that kept him out of action this past Tuesday will impact his status. Braden Shipley, RHP, University of Nevada: Another breakout pitcher, the 6-2, 180 pound Shipley is a former shortstop who polished his mechanics this spring and throws strikes with a mid-90s fastball and a good change. His breaking ball still needs some work, but he should come off the board in the top 10 or 12 picks. Ryne Stanek, RHP, University of Arkansas: Rated as a top five talent pre-season, Stanek has had an inconsistent spring but could still go in the top dozen on the basis of his 6-4, 190 pound build, low-to-mid-90s fastball, hard slider, and developing changeup. He could be a number two starter if all goes well, or a power reliever if it doesn't. Kohl Stewart, RHP, St. Pius X HS, Tomball, Texas: The top high school pitcher in the class, this Texas A&M quarterback recruit is a terrific athlete with a strong 6-3, 195 pound build, a low-to-mid-90s fastball, and a promising array of secondary pitches including a curve, slider, and change. He should go in the top six picks and won't likely present a signability problem in that range. Others and comments

bmfc1 May 25 2013 03:24 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Stanek was projected as the Mets pick by [u:2xqib0hi]Baseball America[/u:2xqib0hi].

Edgy MD May 25 2013 08:41 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

You get a two-way prospect, I always thought it'd be a fun way to do it to have him pitch during the summer, and play outfield in winter ball --- or vice versa if the team favors him as a batter. Injury risk is increased, but that's maybe a fair tradeoff for a guy with two-way potential. Chances are it wouldn't work, and you drop it after two years, but you at least can be sure you made the right choice, and he reaches the bigs with experience on the other side of the ball if you need it.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 28 2013 08:32 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Guy on the Internet has the Mets picking either HS CF Austin Meadows; New Mexico 1B DJ Peterson; or Mississippi State RF Hunter Renfrow. Jonathan "Hold the" Mayo sez we get HS C Reese McGuire.

Edgy MD May 28 2013 09:00 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

That GotI is an unimpeachable source. [list:xi10d3k6][*:xi10d3k6]Austin Meadows[/*:m:xi10d3k6] [*:xi10d3k6]DJ Peterson[/*:m:xi10d3k6] [*:xi10d3k6]Hunter Renfrow[/*:m:xi10d3k6] [*:xi10d3k6]Reese McGuire[/*:m:xi10d3k6][/list:u:xi10d3k6] All I know is that whoever the Mets pick, he's spending a piece o' that bonus money on one badassed truck.

metirish May 28 2013 09:02 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

is this the same guy?

metirish May 28 2013 09:04 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

actually I think this is him, note the name spelling

MFS62 May 28 2013 09:09 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

If French Fries are his favorite food, why is he only 160 pounds? Later

Benjamin Grimm May 28 2013 09:18 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I'm on Team Renfroe.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 28 2013 09:19 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Got the Bryce Harper thing going with the eye-black and No. 34.

metirish May 28 2013 09:23 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Got the Bryce Harper thing going with the eye-black and No. 34. Cole Hamels won't be best pleased with him then!

bmfc1 May 28 2013 09:31 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

More on Renfroe: http://metsmerizedonline.com/2013/05/ba ... no-11.html

Frayed Knot May 28 2013 10:07 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 28 2013 10:25 AM

With the usual caveat that 'Mock Draft' = 'Very Slightly Educated Guess', I saw a mock that had the thought-to-be untouchable Clint Fraizer falling to #11 I'm sure the Mets would be happy if that happened as would Justin Turner since it would give him another red-head to play with. Must be all kinds of tough social problems for him being the only RH minority on his team. btw, Mayo on mlb.com doesn't rank Renfroe until 28th in his Top-100 so yaneverknow. Mayo on Renfroe: Scouting Grades* (present/future): Hit: 3/5 | Power: 4/5 | Run: 5/5 | Arm: 6/6 | Field: 4/5 | Overall: 4/5 Raw and toolsy, Renfroe has developed considerably in his three years at Mississippi State. While there's still some swing and miss to his game, he's progressed tremendously at the plate. The more consistent of a hitter he can become, the more he can tap into his outstanding raw power. He's a good runner who's even better underway, and he has a cannon for an arm. He's strong and physical and might very well fit the profile for a right fielder at the highest level. The team that believes Renfroe will hit enough will be the one to take him in the early stages of the Draft.

Edgy MD May 28 2013 10:16 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Calling mock drafts is like picking the next 30 presidents --- everything that happens re-writes what will follow, so the plausability of correctly picking each successive pick rapidly deteriorates with each proceeding one. Would love to see Nate Silver take a crack at it, though.

Frayed Knot May 28 2013 10:27 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Edgy MD wrote: Calling mock drafts is like picking the next 30 prsidents ... Except that, y'know, all the draft picks are currently alive.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 28 2013 11:15 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Other guys to watch: Teddy Stankewicz, who rejected our offer last year, is back and considered a pretty good pitching prospect. L.J. Mazzilli, on his way to the NCAA regionals with UConn, who rejected the Twins last year.

Frayed Knot May 28 2013 03:28 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

L J Mazzilli appearing on BA's list right at the mid-point of their Top-500 list, right above the name of Mike (grandson) Yastrzemski Highest legacy pick I've found is Houston area HS 1Bman Cavan Biggio at #67 Teddy Stankiewicz, currently hurling for Seminole State (OK) JuCo, is seeded at #77, just two picks below where he was picked last year Top-500

A Boy Named Seo Jun 03 2013 12:26 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Mock draft number 900 (Baseball America, this one) has us taking 1st team All-American slugger DJ Peterson (3b/1b) from New Mexico. .411/.525/.823 with 18 homers in 209 AB. Real thing in 3 days...

Vic Sage Jun 03 2013 12:27 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

just get some fucker who can hit please!

A Boy Named Seo Jun 03 2013 12:51 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

"Sandy, explain your thought process behind this pick at #11." "Our game plan, as always, has been to get some fucker who can hit, and we felt he was best hitting fucker available, so we jumped at the chance to nab this fucker."

Edgy MD Jun 03 2013 12:55 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Some people try and address a specific organizational weakness. Do I have fuckers who can catch? Are we short on outfuckers? My philosophy --- and you can see this in San Diego, Oakland... what have you --- take the best fucker available. Who knows, three-four years down the road, where the fuck you'll need that fucker? FUCK!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 03 2013 01:00 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

A Boy Named Seo wrote: "Sandy, explain your thought process behind this pick at #11." "Our game plan, as always, has been to get some fucker who can hit, and we felt he was best hitting fucker available, so we jumped at the chance to nab this fucker." lolol

Vic Sage Jun 03 2013 01:34 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

i've never heard Alderson be so articulate and insightful.

Frayed Knot Jun 03 2013 03:19 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Vic Sage wrote: just get some fucker who can hit please! aka: The Motherfucker with the Bat

Ceetar Jun 03 2013 03:23 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I just hope they draft someone good. This 2017 team should be real good!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 03 2013 06:25 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

RUNNING NEEDS LIST: Motherfuckers who can hit Best MF Available Real Good Motherfuckers

Frayed Knot Jun 04 2013 02:17 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Ceetar wrote: I just hope they draft someone good. They're all good NOW. The trick is to figure out which ones are going to be good later on. A quick history on #11 picks: When the Mets pick 11th overall this year it’ll be the 49th #11 overall pick (not surprisingly seeing how this is the 49th amateur draft) and the first time that the Mets have had this specific pick over that span. Of the previous 48 * 27 from HS, 21 from college * 20 were pitchers, 28 position players * 17 of those 48 failed to reach the majors, although that number includes the four most recent choices who all still could reach at some point in the near future. So a more accurate ratio now stands at 31 successes vs 13 failures if you’re using making the show, however breifly, as your success/failure standard although you'd want something a bit better than just making the majors out of your 11th overall pick. * Of the 26 position players (not counting the recent two) 17 reached the >100 games played mark which the post that opened this thread used as the standard between success and failure. Of course that standard was being applied to all Top-100 picks so you’d certainly want this ratio to be much better and it is with 65% of the picks reaching that mark as opposed to 38% * Using the >10 career WAR standard (again, position players only) as the definition of "Impact” players we find 4 players (15%), only somewhat higher than the 1-in-8 mark found by BA for all Top-100 position player picks but, again, maybe more to come. Best picks by WAR in a career (with McCutcheon obviously still active): Greg Luzinski -- 1968 Phillies -- 26.1 Shane Mack -- 1984 Padres -- 21.6 Andrew McCuthchen -- 2005 Pirates -- 21.4 Walt Weiss -- 1985 A’s -- 16.5 Max Scherzer -- 2006 Diamondbacks -- 13.0 Shawn Estes -- 1991 Mariners -- 11.1

Frayed Knot Jun 04 2013 02:40 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Other legacies eligible for this year's draft: Nick Bando C/RHP San Diego Christian JC -- Father is former MLB catcher Chris Bando; uncle is former MLB third baseman Sal Bando Brantley Bell SS Mountain Pointe HS, Phoenix -- Father is former MLB infielder Jay Bell Cody Bellinger 1B Hamilton HS, Chandler, Ariz. -- Father is former MLB infielder Clay Bellinger Cole Bieser OF Southeast Missouri State -- Father is former MLB outfielder and current Southeast Missouri State head coach Steve Bieser Luke Borders 3B Winter Haven (Fla.) HS -- Father is former MLB catcher Pat Borders Rafael Bournigal SS Lakeland (Fla.) Christian HS -- Father is former MLB shortstop Rafael Bournigal Alex Boyd RHP/SS Rancho Buena Vista HS, Vista, Calif. -- Uncle is former MLB pitcher Oil Can Boyd Gunnar Buhner 2B Mount Si HS, Snoqualmie, Wash. -- Father is former MLB outfielder Jay Buhner Austin Cangelosi SS Sandburg HS, Orland Park, Ill. -- Father is former MLB outfielder John Cangelosi Kacy Clemens RHP Memorial HS, Houston -- Father is 11-time all-star pitcher Roger Clemens Mijon Cummings OF Steinbrenner HS, Tampa -- Father is former MLB outfielder Midre Cummings Cody Dent OF Florida -- Father is former MLB all-star Bucky Dent Luke Farrell RHP Northwestern -- Father is former MLB pitcher and Red Sox manager John Farrell Bobby Geren C Princeton -- Father is former MLB catcher and manager Bob Geren Austin Grebeck OF Mater Dei HS, Santa Ana, Calif. -- Father is former MLB shortstop Craig Grebeck Seth Greene RHP Virginia Commonwealth -- Father is former MLB pitcher Tommy Greene Chad Hockin RHP Damien HS, La Verne, Calif. -- Grandfather is Hall of Famer Harmon Killebrew Torii Hunter Jr. OF Prosper (Texas) HS -- Father is nine-time Gold Glove outfielder Torii Hunter Alex Jones 3B Pell City (Ala.) HS -- Father is former MLB pitcher Todd Jones Kevin Kuntz SS Kansas -- Father is former MLB outfielder and Royals first base coach Rusty Kuntz Adam Law 2B Brigham Young -- Father is former MLB all-star infielder Vance Law; grandfather is 1960 Cy Young award winner Vern Law Dylan Manwaring 3B Horseheads (N.Y.) HS -- Father is former MLB catcher Kirt Manwaring Blaise Maris C St. Francis Caholic HS, Gainesville, Fla. -- Grandfather is Yankees legend Roger Maris Jacob May OF Coastal Carolina -- Grandfather is former MLB outfielder Lee May; Dillon Moyer SS UC San Diego -- Father is former MLB pitcher Jamie Moyer Preston Palmeiro 1B Heritage HS, Frisco, Texas -- Father is four-time all-star first baseman Rafael Palmeiro Josh Pettitte RHP Deer Park (Texas) HS -- Father is Yankees lefthander Andy Pettitte Ryan Plantier OF Cornell -- Father is former MLB first baseman Phil Plantier Cal Quantrill RHP Trinity College School, Port Hope, Ont. -- Father is former MLB pitcher Paul Quantrill Manny Ramirez Jr. OF IMG Academy, Bradenton, Fla. -- Father is 12-time all star outfielder Manny Ramirez Elijah Rodriguez 2B Grand Street Campus HS, New York -- Father is former MLB pitcher Frankie Rodriguez Dalton Saberhagen LHP Tennessee -- Father is former MLB pitcher Bret Saberhagen Lukas Schiraldi RHP Navarro (Texas) JC -- Father is former MLB pitcher Calvin Schiraldi JaVon Shelby SS Tates Creek HS, Lexington, Ky. -- Father is former MLB outfielder John Shelby Kevin Stenhouse OF Rhode Island -- Grandfather is former MLB pitcher Dave Stenhouse; father is former MLB outfielder Mike Stenhouse Wes Torrez RHP Jacksonville -- Father is former MLB pitcher Mike Torrez J.D. Underwood RHP Palm Beach State (Fla.) JC -- Father is former MLB pitcher Tom Underwood Ben Verlander OF Old Dominion -- Brother is Tigers pitcher Justin Verlander Chad Wallach C Cal State Fullerton -- Father is former MLB third baseman Tim Wallach Brodie Weiss SS Regis Jesuit HS, Aurora, Colo. -- Father is former MLB shortstop and Rockies manager Walt Weiss Cody Yount OF Virginia Commonwealth -- Father is former MLB pitcher Larry Yount; uncle is Hall of Famer Robin Yount

Benjamin Grimm Jun 04 2013 02:46 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I have no recollection of "Larry Yount".

Edgy MD Jun 04 2013 03:15 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

As he played all of one game, that's to be expected. But he appears to have gotten hurt warming up and never faced a batter.

Edgy MD Jun 04 2013 03:16 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

The Wik wrote: Lawrence King "Larry" Yount (born February 15, 1950 in Houston, Texas) is a former professional baseball player. Yount (whose younger brother is Hall of Famer Robin Yount) holds the unique distinction of being the only pitcher in Major League Baseball history to appear in the official record books without ever actually having faced a batter. In his only major league appearance on September 15, 1971, he had to leave the game during his warm-up pitches due to injury.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 04 2013 03:26 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Wow. Family gatherings must be kind of awkward. "Well, Larry, I had a long career, 3000 hits, and ended up in Cooperstown."

Zvon Jun 04 2013 04:33 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Wow. Family gatherings must be kind of awkward. "Well, Larry, I had a long career, 3000 hits, and ended up in Cooperstown." "Well, Robin, I have a real mans name."

Frayed Knot Jun 04 2013 06:28 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

There are a couple other legacies in this coming draft that I didn't list -- by the time they included every brother, nephew, and celebrity relation (Jamie Foxx's nephew for instance) it was a LONG list. One is a kid out of the Citadel in South Carolina named Joe Jackson who is listed as "a distant relation" of Shoeless Joe. There was another 'distant relation' type named Cameron Berra

Edgy MD Jun 04 2013 07:05 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I'm fascinated by the Berra clan. Yogi being a short, squat, and homely catcher, you'd think he'd be the epitome of the "good ballplayer, but no athlete" tag, but he ended up siring a big league shortstop and an NFL wideout. How many fathers can claim as much success in athletic breeding?

Frayed Knot Jun 04 2013 07:12 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Yogi himself was a terrific athlete despite the odd looks and non-classic build. Some of the stories from his amateur days were probably enhanced by the old 'big-fish/small-pond' situation but I remember hearing about how he was the best football player in his town, a real good soccer player (remember that a lot of Italian immigrants formed some good, by US standards, teams in those days), and had an excellent amateur boxing stint.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2013 09:25 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Mets Fun with the 11th pick: _____________________ Top stats to know: The No. 11 pick By Mark Simon | ESPNNewYork.com The Mets pick No. 11 in the 2013 MLB Draft tonight, so we offer up a list of five stats releated to that selection. 1-- From 1980 to 2008, there were 29 players selected No. 11 overall. Of those, 21 made the major leagues. That equates to a 72 percent reaching-the-majors rate. For comparison, the No. 9 and No. 10 pick are 49-for-58 (84 percent) in that span. The No. 12 pick and No. 13 picks are a combined 39-for-58 (67 percent). In all, that comes out to the ninth through 13th picks having about a 75 percent history of reaching the majors. 2-- The last time the Mets had a pick in the top 11, they hit the jackpot, taking Matt Harvey with the No. 7 pick in the 2010 Draft. The time prior to that, they landed Mike Pelfrey with the No. 9 pick of the 2005 Draft. In fact, the last seven times the Mets have had a Top-11 pick, they’ve taken a pitcher. Their last position-player selection in the top 11 was Preston Wilson (Mookie’s stepson) in 1992. Wilson would eventually net the Mets Mike Piazza in trade. 3-- There is nothing predictive in this stat, it’s just an odd quirk: There have only been six players drafted No. 11 overall to record at least 10 Wins Above Replacement in their careers. If you look at the history of the first 22 picks in the MLB Draft, the No. 11 pick ranks tied for the weakest in terms of 10-WAR players, and worst in terms of the average Wins Above Replacement for those players who did make the majors (4.4 WAR). The best No. 11 pick in terms of overall production is Greg Luzinski (26.1 WAR), though he'll soon be replaced by Andrew McCutchen (21.3). The top pitcher is Max Scherzer (13.1 WAR) 4-- Though Keith Law has the Mets taking a high school prospect—Domonic Smith-- some reports have the Mets targeting a college position player with their first pick. They’ve drafted 10 college position players with a first-round pick previously with mixed success. Their three most successful ones in terms of major-league production were Jeromy Burnitz (1990), Jay Payton (1994), and Hubie Brooks (1978). 5-- The Mets have had different strategies in Sandy Alderson/Paul De Podesta’s first two drafts. In 2011, their first two picks were high school players (Brandon Nimmo and Michael Fulmer), but seven of their next eight were four-year college players). In 2012, the Mets went with more of an even split—- five high school players (including top pick Gavin Cecchini), four four-year college players, and one junior college player. Multiple studies have gone over whether pursuing college players is better than drafting high school players (opinions vary), one of the most recent of which can be found here. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... no-11-pick

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2013 09:36 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

ESPN's Matt Meyers two-parter on the Mets and the draft: Is there a draft in here? Part 1 June, 5, 2013 Jun 5 12:03PM ET By Matt Meyers | ESPNNewYork.com If, while walking across Shea Bridge, you asked the average fan why the Mets are in their current predicament, there’s a good chance the response would include an expletive and the words “Wilpon” and “Madoff.” More than anything else, the club’s financial constraints, caused by ownership's involvement in the ill-fated Ponzi scheme, are seen as the reasons why the Mets are in midst of what seems like an endless rebuilding cycle. Problem is, that theory doesn’t hold water. In fact, there is a very simple explanation for why the Mets, for lack of a better word, stink: the amateur draft -- this year's version of which begins Thursday night. For some reason, fans seem to think that you can build a winning team via free agency. Once upon a time, that may have been true, and the 2009 Yankees, who won the World Series after signing CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and A.J. Burnett, are the last good example. However, MLB clubs -- both big- and small-market -- are much smarter about locking up their top talent before it hits the market, which means having lots of moolah to spend in the offseason doesn’t really mean that much anymore. Exhibit A is the 2012 Marlins, Exhibit B is the 2012 and 2013 Angels. Both of those teams “won” the offseason with major free-agent signings and have nothing to show for it. In fact, both organizations are in much worse shape today than they were on the final day of the 2011 season. Since most guys are already past their prime by the time they reach free agency, the only way to acquire elite players is by drafting them, signing them as international free agents or trading for them. (But you need players from the first two groups to do much trading.) As David Schoenfield noted recently, the last time the Mets drafted a player who appeared in an All-Star Game was Scott Kazmir, back in 2002. Of course, he didn’t appear in the ASG until after being traded to Tampa Bay for basically nothing. The last player the Mets drafted who appeared in the Midsummer Classic in orange and blue is David Wright, a supplemental first-rounder in 2001. Wright’s success is a perfect demonstration of the misunderstanding of the Mets’ woes. See, spending money has never been the Mets’ problem. For years and years the pre-Madoff Mets threw money at free agents, just the wrong ones. In fact, some of the best moves the Mets made in recent years were free agent signings they didn’t make. The club dodged a bullet when the Giants outbid them for Barry Zito, and an even larger one when Mike Hampton chose Colorado’s dollars over theirs. As a bonus, the Mets received a supplemental draft pick when Hampton signed with the Rockies, which they used to draft Wright, only the most accomplished position player in franchise history. After Wright, it wasn’t until getting Matt Harvey in the 2010 that Mets drafted another player who looks like a real cornerstone, while whiffing on first-round picks time and again. (Remember Nathan Vineyard, the Mets’ supplemental first-rounder in 2007? Problaby not, as he only pitched in two games above rookie ball.) Meanwhile, they wasted dollars on all sorts of free agents who failed to live up to their contracts -- K-Rod, Wagner, Castillo, Alou, Bay, Perez etc -- while their competitors built from within. Look at the best teams in the National League -- their foundation came via the draft. The Reds with Votto, Bruce, Bailey and Frazier. The Cardinals with Molina, Miller, Craig and Jay. The Braves with Freeman, McCann, Heyward, Simmons, Medlen, Kimbrel and Minor. Yes, these teams have spent money on free agents (or traded prospects for veterans to supplement their rosters), but only did that once they had a foundation built from within. Players' salaries are controlled for the first six years of their career, so if you can develop your own players you have the flexibility to spend when you need to fill a hole or two. And you also have the leverage to sign the best players to below-market long-term deals well in advance of free agency, which the Reds did with Votto and Cards did with Molina. Look at how the Mets operated for most of the past decade -- they spent a lot more on free agents than any other NL team and have nothing to show for it but one division title and a lot of disappointment. Want to know why they are unwatchable right now? It’s because they went seven years without drafting anyone who resembles an All-Star. (In Part 2 on Thursday, I’ll explain why the Mets' drafting has been so bad.) http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... ere-part-1 Is there a draft in here? Part 2 June, 6, 2013 Jun 6 11:02AM ET By Matt Meyers | ESPNNewYork.com On Wednesday, I explained that the Mets’ problems have a lot more to do with poor drafting than Bernie Madoff. The short version is as follows: There once was a time when big-market clubs could count on top young players hitting the market in their late 20s, but when you see the Reds and Rays locking up Joey Votto and Evan Longoria, respectively, you know that is no longer the case. To win, you have to build from within, which means drafting well. So why have the Mets been so bad in the draft over the past decade? It boils down to three reasons. 1. Punting draft picks The rules regarding free agency and draft picks have changed a bit over the years, but you have always run the risk of forfeiting a draft pick when you sign elite free agents. (Under the new CBA these are players who received a qualifying offer.) For years the Mets gave away first-round picks to sign free agents, many of whom simply were not worth it. They gave up a first-round pick in 2006 to sign Billy Wagner, in 2007 for Moises Alou and in 2009 for Francisco Rodriguez. If you’re giving up top picks you have a much lower chance of adding elite, cost-controlled talent to your organization. It’s one thing if you are adding a perennial All-Star in his prime, but in those instances the Mets gave up top picks for two relievers and a 40-year-old outfielder who played in a total of 102 games over the life of his two-year deal. That’s just bad business. Fortunately, the Mets seemed to have wised up in this regard. If you recall, they refused to sign Michael Bourn over the winter because they would have had to sacrifice the No. 11 overall pick to do it. As nice as a player as Bourn is, he would not have made this team a contender, and the player the Mets get at that spot on Thursday is probably going to be much more valuable to the future of the club than Bourn would have been. 2. Going cheap Oddly, even though the Mets were willing to pay through the nose for free agents such as Wagner, K-Rod and Jason Bay, they were among a group of teams that included the White Sox, Padres and Astros that were notorious for their unwillingness to spend big on the draft. For whatever reason -- most assumed it was the Wilpon’s cozy relationship with Bud Selig -- the club frequently refused to significantly exceed MLB’s bonus recommendations. This often meant missing out on blue-chip talent at the top of the draft as well as players who may have slid due to bonus demands. A perfect example is 2004, when the Mets had the No. 3 overall pick. That year, Jered Weaver and Stephen Drew were both seen as two of the top talents in the draft, but both were advised by Scott Boras and were demanding big bonuses. Many clubs were scared off by their demands -- this is how the Padres ended up taking Matt Bush at No. 1 overall -- and the Mets were no different. Weaver fell to the Angels at No. 12 and Drew to the Diamondbacks at No. 15 and held out for almost a year before signing just ahead of the 2005 draft for $4 million each. Philip Humber, whom the Mets took at No. 3, signed for $3 million. That’s a difference of $1 million, or roughly 1/16 of what the Mets are paying Jason Bay not to play for them this year. Per wins above replacement, Weaver and Drew are the second- and third-most valuable players in that class, trailing only Justin Verlander, the No. 2 overall pick. Funny thing is, the Mets did have some success when they went above slot in later rounds, most notably signing Jonathon Niese, a seventh-rounder in 2005, for fourth- or fifth-round money. Of course, his bonus was $175,000, not the kind of dollars that will cause too big of a stir in the commissioner’s office. The spending issue is somewhat moot under the new CBA, as teams have a spending cap and will incur harsh penalties if they exceed it, but the Mets were one of the only teams willing to play by the old rules, and it cost them. 3. Bad luck To be fair to previous Mets management, there were a few top picks that didn’t pan out that were probably just bad luck. While Weaver and Drew were considered better prospects, Philip Humber was far from a reach at No. 3 that year. The same can be said of Lastings Milledge (No. 12, 2003) and Mike Pelfrey (No. 9, 2005). Humber was part of the Johan Santana trade, Milledge was considered a top prospect until he got to the majors while Pelfrey was a serviceable starter for a couple of years. Of course, when you pick in the top 12 for three straight seasons and have nothing to show for it, that’ll sting. (Santana’s no-hitter was nice, but there’s a strong argument to be made the Mets would be better off now had they not made that trade. They’d have Carlos Gomez, a lot more payroll flexibility and just as many playoff appearances.) The good news for the Mets is that the draft has been kinder in recent years (Matt Harvey, FTW), and the Sandy Alderson regime seems focused on building from within. A cynic could say, “what choice does he have,” but the fact of the matter is that teams don’t build World Series winners through free agency anymore. So pay attention to the draft, starting tonight, because the club’s future depends on it. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... ere-part-2

HahnSolo Jun 06 2013 10:38 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Mijon Cummings OF Steinbrenner HS, Tampa -- Father is former MLB outfielder Midre Cummings Somehow the biggest WTF of this entry is not the name "Mijon". Steinbrenner HS, are you kidding me?

Edgy MD Jun 06 2013 11:15 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

My team DID NOT refuse to sign Michael Bourn in order to preserve their rights to draft a product of George F. Steinbrenner High School.

MFS62 Jun 06 2013 11:29 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Edgy MD wrote: My team DID NOT refuse to sign Michael Bourn in order to preserve their rights to draft a product of George F. Steinbrenner High School. That would be as offensive as (fill in the blank(. Later

metsmarathon Jun 06 2013 11:55 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

i'm not so sure i share the alternate reality view that the mets would have been better off not trading for santana. the would be better off TODAY having kept cargo and not gotten santana (assuming of course that all other things unfolded the exact same way), but cargo took forever to develop. i'm certain he would have been ridden out of town well before he finally broke out last year.. and even last year, his obp was barely above 0.300. resigning a player like that...? really?

Edgy MD Jun 06 2013 12:01 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Yeah, but $$$. Even today, walk down to payroll at CitiField and Johan's is the first and biggest check they have to write.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2013 12:09 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 06 2013 02:26 PM

Oddly, even though the Mets were willing to pay through the nose for free agents such as Wagner, K-Rod and Jason Bay, they were among a group of teams that included the White Sox, Padres and Astros that were notorious for their unwillingness to spend big on the draft. For whatever reason -- most assumed it was the Wilpon’s cozy relationship with Bud Selig -- the club frequently refused to significantly exceed MLB’s bonus recommendations. This often meant missing out on blue-chip talent at the top of the draft as well as players who may have slid due to bonus demands. A perfect example is 2004, when the Mets had the No. 3 overall pick. That year, Jered Weaver and Stephen Drew were both seen as two of the top talents in the draft, but both were advised by Scott Boras and were demanding big bonuses. Many clubs were scared off by their demands -- this is how the Padres ended up taking Matt Bush at No. 1 overall -- and the Mets were no different. Weaver fell to the Angels at No. 12 and Drew to the Diamondbacks at No. 15 and held out for almost a year before signing just ahead of the 2005 draft for $4 million each. Philip Humber, whom the Mets took at No. 3, signed for $3 million. That’s a difference of $1 million, or roughly 1/16 of what the Mets are paying Jason Bay not to play for them this year. Per wins above replacement, Weaver and Drew are the second- and third-most valuable players in that class, trailing only Justin Verlander, the No. 2 overall pick. This argument has come to be a favorite of writers over recent years. Problem is it's only partially true to begin with and usually not in the way they think. In the "often meant missing out on blue-chip talent at the top of the draft" quote I like how the word "often" is followed by ONE example which isn't surprising really since it's the only one and even that was is largely hindsight. Weaver was coming off a terrific season in college but there was NOT a consensus that he was the best pitcher in the draft that year with many touting Rice University's 'Big Three' (Humber, Niemann & Wade Townsend who went 3rd, 4th, & 8th ) as better bets in the long run. That it didn't happen that way isn't the same thing as saying it was obvious at the time. It also ignores the fact that the Mets have dealt with Boras in the past (both for amateurs & ML talent) and have gone "over-slot" for some of those picks (Pelfrey for one). Touting Drew & Weaver as clear better choices who were only passed over for money reasons is classic after-the-fact "proof" backed with nine years of hindsight. Where the Mets did show a propensity to "cheap-out" on the draft was by not reaching in later rounds for athletic HS-types who could be good some day but could command more money than their draft slot indicated due to having college scholarship in their back pocket (often for football or basketball as well as baseball). Draft money isn't always based on talent, bargaining power through other options plays a role as well so who got more money doesn't necessarily prove who was considered the better talent. Players like those miss more often than they hit and more often than the "safe" but lower-ceiling college picks they might take instead but at least it gives a club a shot at getting what could be upper-round talent in a later draft (one the kid has several years of college) at what turns out to be a bargain rate. The Yanx got Austin Jackson (who they later flipped for Granderson) that way in something like the 7th round after paying big bucks to forego his hoops scholarship. The BoSox tried to do the same with Pedro Alvarez but he turned down their million dollar offer to go to Vanderbilt and wound up three drafts later going to Pittsburgh as the 2nd overall choice and a $6mil bonus.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2013 02:20 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 06 2013 02:27 PM

Looks like MLBN is trending towards the football draft route: four hours of coverage tonight (for 73 picks) and that's only after they do an hour of a pre-draft show. OK, so it's not quite as ridiculous as football which would stretch that many picks out to around 12 hours of coverage and commentary over two days, but they're getting there. Real picks to begin at 7PM. Figure the Mets to get on the board with their first pick a little after 8, then their second one (#48) maybe near 10 Mets will then have one of the first picks (#76) when they pick things up again Friday at 1 PM

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2013 02:24 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I freely acknowledge that I know virtually nothing about any of these guys, but I'm rooting for Hunter Renfroe.

Vic Sage Jun 06 2013 02:29 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I'm rooting for any motherfucker who can hit good.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2013 02:36 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Most people following this stuff don't know anything either beyond whatever thumbnail sketches they read about leading up to it, that's why you hope that mgmt does. These seem to be the guys most often linked to be candidates (and available) for the Mets' top choice: (in no particular order) D.J. Peterson, 3B-1B, University of New Mexico: Another right-handed college power hitter, Peterson controls the strike zone well and has excellent power to all fields. His 6-1, 205 pound body lacks speed and he may have to switch positions, but his bat is expected to take him through the minors quickly. Reese McGuire, C, Kentwood HS, Covington, Washington: High school catching is a strength in this draft and McGuire is the best of the lot, a 6-1, 190 pound lefty hitter with athleticism and excellent defensive skills. His hitting is considered solid and this complete package should take him off the board before the middle of the first round, perhaps even in the top five. Austin Meadows, OF, Grayson HS, Loganville, Georgia: Often compared to high school competitor Frazier, Meadows is a lefty hitter at 6-3, 210 pounds. His across-the-board tools may be a bit stronger than Frazier's, but his bat has less zip in it and he plays with less energy. He still projects as a major-league regular and is a lock to go in the top half of the draft. Hunter Renfroe, OF, Mississippi State University: A burly-but-athletic type at 6-1, 215, Renfroe took a giant step forward this spring as a power hitter thanks to better plate discipline. He's a certain first-rounder at this point and could go in the top ten under certain scenarios. His strong arm would look good in right field. Ryne Stanek, RHP, University of Arkansas: Rated as a top five talent pre-season, Stanek has had an inconsistent spring but could still go in the top dozen on the basis of his 6-4, 190 pound build, low-to-mid-90s fastball, hard slider, and developing changeup. He could be a number two starter if all goes well, or a power reliever if it doesn't. and if it's not one of them it'll be ... someone else.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 06 2013 02:48 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Oddly, even though the Mets were willing to pay through the nose for free agents such as Wagner, K-Rod and Jason Bay, they were among a group of teams that included the White Sox, Padres and Astros that were notorious for their unwillingness to spend big on the draft. For whatever reason -- most assumed it was the Wilpon’s cozy relationship with Bud Selig -- the club frequently refused to significantly exceed MLB’s bonus recommendations. This often meant missing out on blue-chip talent at the top of the draft as well as players who may have slid due to bonus demands. A perfect example is 2004, when the Mets had the No. 3 overall pick. That year, Jered Weaver and Stephen Drew were both seen as two of the top talents in the draft, but both were advised by Scott Boras and were demanding big bonuses. Many clubs were scared off by their demands -- this is how the Padres ended up taking Matt Bush at No. 1 overall -- and the Mets were no different. Weaver fell to the Angels at No. 12 and Drew to the Diamondbacks at No. 15 and held out for almost a year before signing just ahead of the 2005 draft for $4 million each. Philip Humber, whom the Mets took at No. 3, signed for $3 million. That’s a difference of $1 million, or roughly 1/16 of what the Mets are paying Jason Bay not to play for them this year. Per wins above replacement, Weaver and Drew are the second- and third-most valuable players in that class, trailing only Justin Verlander, the No. 2 overall pick. This argument has come to be a favorite of writers over recent years. Problem is it's only partially true to begin with and usually not in the way they think. In the "often meant missing out on blue-chip talent at the top of the draft" quote I like how the word "often" is followed by ONE example which isn't surprising really since it's the only one and even that was is largely hindsight. Weaver was coming off a terrific season in college but there was NOT a consensus that he was the best pitcher in the draft that year with many touting Rice University's 'Big Three' (Humber, Niemann & Wade Townsend who went 3rd, 4th, & 8th ) as better bets in the long run. That it didn't happen that way isn't the same thing as saying it was obvious at the time. It also ignores the fact that the Mets have dealt with Boras in the past (both for amateurs & ML talent) and have gone "over-slot" for some of those picks (Pelfrey for one). Touting Drew & Weaver as clear better choices who were only passed over for money reasons is classic after-the-fact "proof" backed with nine years of hindsight. Where the Mets did show a propensity to "cheap-out" on the draft was by not reaching in later rounds for athletic HS-types who could be good some day but could command more money than their draft slot indicated due to having college scholarship in their back pocket (often for football or basketball as well as baseball). Draft money isn't always based on talent, bargaining power through other options plays a role as well so who got more money doesn't necessarily prove who was considered the better talent. Players like those miss more often than they hit and more often than the "safe" but lower-ceiling college picks they might take instead but at least it gives a club a shot at getting what could be upper-round talent in a later draft (one the kid has several years of college) at what turns out to be a bargain rate. The Yanx got Austin Jackson (who they later flipped for Granderson) that way in something like the 7th round after paying big bucks to forego his hoops scholarship. The BoSox tried to do the same with Pedro Alvarez but he turned down their million dollar offer to go to Vanderbilt and wound up three drafts later going to Pittsburgh as the 2nd overall choice and a $6mil bonus. Eh, I kinda remember differently. Weaver was a fucking man-child, and Boras and the rumors of his Mark Prior, pre-slot, demand $$ definitely scared teams off. The Mets (and 12 other teams before the Angels) really shoulda jumped at him. Edit: that Verlander guy turned out OK, though.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 06 2013 03:57 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Hot, steamy, draft action right on your computer!! http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/y2013/draftlive_app.jsp

G-Fafif Jun 06 2013 06:13 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Dom Smith from L.A. 1B/OF, "sweet swinger," et al, our No. 1 pick. HS kid.

MFS62 Jun 06 2013 06:18 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

G-Fafif wrote: Dom Smith from L.A. 1B/OF, "sweet swinger," et al, our No. 1 pick. HS kid. The words "best pure hitter" are still resonating in my happy brain. Later

Edgy MD Jun 06 2013 08:26 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

"The fucker hits," reports Tommy Tanous, Mets chief scout. "I got a report from my regional crosschecker that said, 'Good fuck!' We knew who we were going for right there and then."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 06 2013 08:30 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Fun moment at the turn, as the MFYs get a value-pick in HS lefty hurler Ian Clarkin... who proceeds to talk (in pretaped vid) about how he "cannot stand the Yankees" and his favorite baseball fan moment, Mariano blowing the '01 Series.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2013 08:37 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 06 2013 09:23 PM

John Sickels on Smith: Smith was seen as a first-rounder pre-season due to his bat speed and strong defense and he's done nothing to change that assessment, ticketed for at least the middle of the round and perhaps sooner. He's athletic at 6-1, 200 and projects to hit for both power and average from the left side, along with excellent glovework, possibly golden. His makeup is also considered a big positive. Committed to Southern Cal, he's certainly signable in the first round. The Mets were linked with college hitting pre-draft, but Smith is about as advanced as you can be for a prep hitter, so this is not a stretch. Jonathan Mayo (mlb.com) The bat is what really stands out for this Southern California high school first baseman. With a terrific approach at the plate and a loose swing, he gets advanced marks for his hittability. Right now, Smith is more of a hit machine, an RBI type, than one who will wow you with his power. There is some pop there, and how high he goes on Draft day may depend on just how much power a team thinks he'll have in the future. He's a very solid defender at first, though it's the fact that some see him as the best pure high school hitter in the class that will get him drafted in the early stages of the Draft.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 06 2013 09:01 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Red Sox take Teddy Stankowicz!

Vic Sage Jun 06 2013 09:09 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Waddyaknow? A motherfucker that can hit good! good job sandy.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2013 09:17 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Pick number 48 = Andrew Church, RHP, HS in Nevada Sickels: "Extremely projectable, I like him."

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 06 2013 09:25 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I had some tequila once that was extremely projectable.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2013 09:26 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Red Sox take Teddy Stankowicz! So he spurns our offer, goes to JuCo, and improves his draft position (and money) by about 30 slots - meaning it probably works out for him at least in the short run, although maybe spending the year as a pro player would be better for him overall. Tough to know.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2013 09:27 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I had some tequila once that was extremely projectable. As in: projectile vomiting commenced after drinking?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 06 2013 10:01 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

you bet

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 06 2013 10:26 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I'm not sure exactly what Church's story is, but what I do know is really strange: 3 high schools in 4 years, without pitching for one of their teams since freshman year.

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2013 07:09 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Baseball America: DOMINIC SMITH, 1B, SERRA HS, GARDENA, CALIF. Area Scout: Drew Touissant PICK ANALYSIS: One of the best pure hitters in the draft class, the Mets continue to go with high-upside players in the first round. SCOUTING REPORT: Smith has been a big name in the Southern California prep ranks for years, and he has justified the hype by continuing to perform at a high level as a senior. He has an innate feel for his barrel, a relaxed approach and a pretty lefthanded stroke, causing most scouts to project him as a plus hitter in the big leagues. He still wastes at-bats and chases at times, and he can get caught on his front foot, but he has the bat speed and hand-eye coordination to get away with it at this level, and he has the aptitude to make adjustments. As he spends more time in the weight room and learns to stay back and use his lower half better, he figures to hit for plus power. Smith’s other plus tool is his defense at first base, where he has soft hands, quick feet and great instincts. He can touch 90 mph off the mound, and his arm plays well at first base. It doesn’t work as well in right field, where he is more of a fringy defender with below-average speed. But he can be a Gold Glove defender at first base with enough offensive potential to make him an all-star. The game comes easily to him, and he is so smooth sometimes that he can almost look nonchalant, but scouts rave about his makeup and work ethic. WHERE HE FITS: Smith’s hitting potential may outweigh [last year's top pick] Gavin Cecchini’s overall upside, he’s that good of a hitter. Either way, Smith should rank in the top three in the Mets’ system when he signs.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2013 07:13 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Young Mr. Smith.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2013 07:14 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

And here's Andrew Church.

G-Fafif Jun 07 2013 07:26 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 07 2013 07:32 AM

From Rubin: Paul DePodesta described Church as having the potential for being a "solid middle-of the rotation starter," who logs innings, with a plus curveball and three-pitch arsenal (fastball that tops out at 93 mph and changeup). "Kid, stick with us, and you can be Shaun Marcum!"

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2013 07:27 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I was thinking when I first heard that Smith came from Serra High School that that school sounded familiar, except it turns out that's because Gregg Jefferies and Barry Bonds were from a different Serra HS, one that sits further up the coast in California.

Edgy MD Jun 07 2013 07:30 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

So, maybe Darryl Strawberry can mentor young Dominic Smith. And maybe that's the worst idea in the world.

Lefty Specialist Jun 07 2013 07:32 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

It's kind of scary that these two picks are the exact same age as my son. He unfortunately topped out as a good-field, no-hit second baseman in eighth grade (or just four years ago for these guys).

MFS62 Jun 07 2013 08:29 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

From the BA report on Smith: He has an innate feel for his barrel, They just put it on a tee for you, Fmann. We're waiting. Lter

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 08:37 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Rany Jazayerli at Grantland sez: 'Abolish the draft!' and points to the current system for international free agents as a workable replacement model. I'm with him all the way, but Bud would never blow up his TV draft day. Very good read.

Edgy MD Jun 07 2013 08:43 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

If only TV were the issue. I'm not with Rany, I'm way ahead of him.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2013 08:44 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Interesting proposal from Rany Jazayerli to abolish the draft, make every amateur a free agent, and impose a cap on amateur spending ala the international draft. Abolish the MLB Draft! It doesn't work. It's quite possibly immoral. It's time to replace it. By Rany Jazayerli on June 6, 2013 Let's conduct a thought experiment. Let's say you're a computer whiz. I don't mean you were able to recover your Word document that one time when your Lenovo crashed — I mean you're an absolute prodigy in front of a laptop. You taught yourself to code your own website when you were 9 years old. By the time you were 11, you were running a profitable side business consulting on software issues for your parents' friends. You graduated from high school with straight A's because you hacked into the system after catching WarGames on late-night TV. ?By the time you finish college, you've established a reputation as one of the brightest young minds in the computing industry. Google is interested in hiring you. Bigwigs at Apple have met you on campus for several friendly chats. Facebook follows you constantly — well, they follow everyone constantly, but in your case they're tracking you with actual human beings. Yahoo sees you as a key piece in their rebuilding strategy. Twitter and LinkedIn have called. And then, a week after graduation, you get a phone call. Microsoft is on the line — you're their first-round pick! They've made you an offer for a fraction of what your value is worth on the open market. If you don't agree to their contract, then you can't work for any other tech company for another year — when some other company will draft you and you'll go through the same process all over again. You think Microsoft is terrible at developing programmers and that you won't learn anything while working there? Tough. You were hoping to settle in Silicon Valley and have no interest in moving to Redmond? Sorry, bub. It was your childhood dream to work for Google?1 [If you're 22, then you were 7 when Google went live, so this is actually plausible. Dammit, we're old.] Maybe you'll get to revisit that dream in 10 years, when you're finally free to work for whoever you want. Does this sound ridiculous? Congratulations! You've picked up on the inherent absurdity of the sports draft. We accept limitations on the rights of athletes to choose their employers in a way we never would accept on anyone else. We do so because we recognize that sports franchises do not compete with each other the way that companies in other industries do. When eToys.com went bankrupt, it didn't hurt business at Amazon. But if the Kansas City Royals ceased operations, the New York Yankees would be hurt by the loss of a "competitor" that they have made millions of dollars beating the crap out of. Like other sports leagues, Major League Baseball is a single entity composed of dozens of competing organizations that need each other to succeed. The health of the league is dependent on the health of each individual organization. Hence, we accept mechanisms that were put in place generations ago to ensure that health by giving the worst franchises a leg up on their opponents in procuring new talent. Well, that's the story they want you to believe, anyway. The reality is that MLB didn't institute the draft nearly 50 years ago as a way to promote competitive balance. That's a dandy byproduct of the draft, and one they've done their damndest to promote over the years. But the real reason is somewhat different. When the draft was created, Major League Baseball wasn't concerned so much with extending a hand to the downtrodden teams, but with cutting costs for all of them. Baseball teams had been trying to lower expenses on player acquisitions for decades before the draft was instituted. These were the days of the reserve clause, a prettied-up term for indentured servitude, when a team owned the rights to a ballplayer from the moment he signed until the moment he retired, and sometimes even after that. The decision to sign his first professional contract represented the only time a player had any real leverage. Well, that wouldn't do, so teams tried their best to restrict what little leverage players had. In 1947 MLB instituted the Bonus Rule, which mandated that any amateur player who received a signing bonus of more than $4,000 would be required to stay on his team's major league roster for two seasons before he could be sent to the minors. It remains one of the most spiteful, self-destructive rules ever passed by a professional sports league. The rule didn't even work to limit bonuses — teams still gave out big bonuses to players of particular promise. All it meant was that every player of particular promise was going to sit on a major league bench, his talent withering away for two years before he could be farmed out to start developing that talent, which hopefully had not atrophied by then. Occasionally a player was so talented that, even in his teenage years, he could hold his own in the majors. Sandy Koufax was put to work by the Brooklyn Dodgers right away, and even at age 19 he didn't embarrass himself. On the other hand, it would take him seven years to master his control and become Sandy Koufax, and it's not unreasonable to presume that some time in the minor leagues would have more quickly taught him to throw strikes. More common was the early experience of Harmon Killebrew, who was 17 when he signed with the Washington Senators in 1954. He got 93 at-bats over the next two years. Killer would bounce between the minors and majors for three more years before finally earning a full-time job in 1959, upon which he promptly led the AL in home runs. Killebrew ended up being the exception, because he made it; we can only wonder how many promising players were permanently damaged by wasting two years of their lives because they agreed to take a team's money. Even the teams realized how ineffective the Bonus Rule was, which is why it was rescinded and then reinstated multiple times over the years. Finally, in 1964, a bidding war broke out over University of Wisconsin two-sport start Rick Reichardt. The Los Angeles Angels won the bidding war with a record-breaking $205,000 offer,2 [Frequently lost in this story is the fact that Reichardt ultimately proved to be worth the money and then some. After wasting his first two years on the Angels' bench, he was an above-average left fielder for the team from 1966 through 1969, and then was traded for Ken McMullen, who started at third base from 1970 to 1972.] which was just the tip of the iceberg: The 20 major league teams spent more than $7 million combined on signing bonuses for amateur players that year, which was more than they spent on major league salaries. The Powers That Be were finally moved to act. In 1965, Major League Baseball got rid of the Bonus Rule and held its first amateur draft. The Kansas City A's used the first pick to select Rick Monday, who would go on to play 19 years in the majors. Monday, who had no leverage to sign with any other team, had no choice but to agree to a signing bonus of $104,000. The new system was intended to lower signing bonuses paid to players, and it worked. In fact, no amateur player exceeded Reichardt's signing bonus for 24 years, until 1988, when the no. 1 overall pick, Andy Benes, was able to snooker the San Diego Padres out of $235,000.3 [Technically, Bo Jackson didn't exceed Reichardt's signing bonus, but after he was selected by the Royals in the fourth round of the 1986 draft, he signed a major league contract (unprecedented for a draft pick) that guaranteed him more than a million dollars. Of course, he had a degree of leverage that was unique in the history of baseball.] The dam finally burst in the early 1990s because agents like Scott Boras insisted that their clients were worth significantly more money. The top signing bonus jumped more than 500 percent in three years; in 1991 the no. 1 overall pick, Brien Taylor, got $1.55 million from the New York Yankees when they took his threat to go to college seriously. By 1995, every first-round pick signed for at least $500,000, and eight players signed for $1 million. But the sudden increase in signing bonuses didn't mean that the draft was no longer suppressing costs — it just meant that owners had finally realized the value of top draft picks. And then in 1996, we finally found out how much a draft pick could be worth. While no. 1 overall pick Kris Benson signed for $2 million, Boras found a loophole in MLB's rules that allowed four first-round picks to be declared free agents, free to sign with any team.4 [Major League Baseball's own rules stated that if a player was not offered a formal contract in writing within 15 days of being drafted, he was a free agent. Teams had routinely missed this deadline for years, but no one called them on it. Boras did, and got pilloried in the press for it, but the people who deserved to get called on the carpet were the incompetent lawyers who created a loophole wider than the Kuiper Belt] One of them was no. 2 overall pick Travis Lee. He signed with the Arizona Diamondbacks — for $10.2 million. The other three guys got $10 million (Matt White), $6.075 million (John Patterson), and $3 million (Bobby Seay). If there was any doubt before that the draft suppressed signing bonuses, there wasn't anymore. The problem in proposing an alternative to the draft is that, as much as it limits the rights of baseball players to earn what the market will bear, it's hard to deny that the draft has also improved competitive balance by giving the worst teams first crack at the best new talent. Truly terrible teams have virtually disappeared from the baseball landscape. If we ignore expansion teams, in the 48 years from 1917 to 1964, 30 teams lost more than two-thirds of their games in a season. In the 48 years from 1965 to 2012 — the draft era — just three teams have done the same.5 [The 1996 Tigers, 2003 Tigers, and 2004 Diamondbacks can take a bow. This year's Miami Marlins are warming up offstage.] The incidence of truly terrible teams has declined 90 percent, even though there are nearly twice as many teams today as there were 60 years ago. So the draft, as constituted, saves teams a ton of money (which benefits the owners) and improves parity in the game (which benefits everyone else). If we're going to replace the draft with something better, it has to accomplish the former or the owners will never agree to do it, and it has to accomplish the latter or there's no point. Fortunately, just such a replacement exists, and it would be a relative breeze to set up. We're not going to keep you in suspense any longer. The draft alternative we're proposing is very simple: 1. Assign every team a spending cap. (This limits costs, which will please owners.) 2. Allot the spending cap for each team based on where they finished in the standings the year before, allowing the worst teams to spend more in the draft than the best teams. (This helps maintain competitive balance.) 3. Let the free market reign. This is not a radical concept. It's not even a particularly new one; David Rawnsley, then a writer for Baseball America and now the VP of player personnel for Perfect Game, suggested it more than a decade ago. But it's an idea whose time has come. First off, think of the benefits. From a player's perspective: You have the right to choose your employer. That's a pretty basic right enjoyed by almost all Americans, but one that has been denied pro athletes for too long. You grew up a Cubs fan and it would be a dream come true to sign with your hometown team? Give them a hometown discount, and it just might happen. Parents retiring to Arizona? Maybe you'll take a second look at what the Diamondbacks have to offer. You love the beach and warm weather? You can take the offer from the San Diego Padres, even if other teams are willing to pay more. (Also, hope you enjoy minor league pit stops in Fort Wayne, San Antonio, and Tucson!) On a less whimsical note, if you're a top collegiate hitter and the Seattle Mariners sidle up to you with truckloads of cash, would you sign? Or would you take a look at what's happened to Jesus Montero, Dustin Ackley, and Justin Smoak, and take less money to sign with an organization that has a proven track record of turning minor league hitting prospects into major league hitters? If you're a pitcher, would you sign with the Kansas City Royals, who haven't drafted a pitcher who has made even one start in the majors this year since 2004? In the current system, if you get drafted by a team whose developmental philosophy is diametrically opposed to your own, you have no recourse other than sitting out a year — or, in the case of a high school player headed to college, three years. This isn't a theoretical issue. The long-tossing revolution, in which pitchers train by throwing a ball 300 feet or even farther, has swept through the game over the past five to 10 years, with many first-round picks swearing by the training method as a way to keep their arms healthy. Meanwhile, more than a few major league teams were extremely skeptical of the new trend — they've almost all come around now — and forbade their pitchers from long-tossing. It became such an issue that two years ago, Trevor Bauer and Dylan Bundy — both pitchers who would be top-five picks in the draft — publicly stated that if any team wasn't willing to let them long-toss, that team shouldn't draft them. In the end, Bauer and Bundy landed with teams who were willing to let them long-toss and the sport avoided an embarrassing standoff. But the potential for this kind of conflict is always there when the teams that draft players hold all the leverage. And with very limited exceptions, draft picks can't be traded, which prevents a resolution along the lines of John Elway getting traded to the Denver Broncos or Eli Manning to the New York Giants. In the current draft system, a player has absolutely no say in his place of employment for roughly a decade — by which point the vast majority of draft picks have already left or been cut from the game. Eliminate the draft, and you give players at least one moment in their lives as professional ballplayers in which they have control of their career. On moral grounds alone, that justifies the switch. But as beneficial as abolishing the draft would be for players, it would have benefits for teams as well. In a draftless system, every team would at least theoretically have a crack at signing every player. Right now, if there's a specific player that your organization is absolutely in love with, you might not even get a chance to talk to him because you have the 13th pick in the draft and the team that drafts 11th fancies him too. Abolish the draft, and suddenly every player in the pool becomes accessible, so long as you're willing to accept the consequences of having less money to sign everyone else. Furthermore, making amateur talent a free-for-all allows teams to try radically different strategies that aren't feasible today. Your research department thinks you'll get a better rate of return by signing 20 guys for $400,000 each than by blowing half your budget on a single player? That's something you can do if the draft is abolished. Conversely, if there's one elite prospect who your organization is certain will be a star? In the current system, if you don't hold a top draft pick, you've got no shot. But eliminate the draft, and if you're willing to blow your entire budget on a single player, you just might. In a system where every player is a free agent and every team is free to sign him, there's no need for the draft shenanigans that happen every year. Never again will Scott Boras need to manipulate the draft to allow his client to sign with the team that will give him the most money — now he's free to negotiate with all 30 teams at once. You claim your client is a special, once-in-a-generation talent? Let the market decide. And in a system where every team has access to every player, luck becomes subordinate to competence. Right now, if there are three consensus franchise talents and you're drafting fourth, you're out of luck. In a draft-free system, you make your own luck. Smart teams will find new inefficiencies to exploit. The A's have found three since you started reading this. When Rawnsley first proposed this idea around the turn of the century, it was such a radical revision of the existing system that it was more of an idea bubble than a true proposal. But changes in the new collective bargaining agreement make the notion of abolishing the draft less far-fetched. For one thing, the new CBA placed a spending cap on all 30 teams in the draft. Every draft pick has been assigned a slot price, with the amount dropping with every pick. Teams are not required to spend all their slot money on that specific player; they can move the money around, getting one player to agree to take less than slot and then transferring the savings to another player. So prior to the draft, every team knows exactly how much money they can spend — the Astros, drafting first this year, have a bonus pool of $11,698,800, while the Nationals, drafting last, can spend $2,737,200. Teams are permitted to exceed their cap, but the penalties for exceeding it by more than 5 percent are so onerous that no team did so last season. Even the Pittsburgh Pirates, who drafted Mark Appel no. 8 overall, refused to break the cap in order to sign him, and Appel returned to Stanford; he may be drafted first overall tonight. So if the Astros have their bonus pool, and the Nationals have their bonus pool, what's the point of having a draft in the first place? In exchange for making the cap completely unbreakable — which will save the owners a little cash — eliminate the middleman. The Astros have their signing cap, the Nationals have theirs. Gentlemen, start your engines. In a sense, the Astros are already operating under a draft-free system. Last season, they had the first pick in the draft, but they elected to take Carlos Correa, who was not considered the best available, because Correa was willing to sign for a well-below-slot bonus of $4.5 million. This freed up millions of dollars for the Astros to use on other players, and they spent much of that excess on Lance McCullers, a high school right-hander who fell in the draft because of his bonus demands. Correa and McCullers are both top prospects today — and tonight, it's quite possible that the Astros will do the same thing again, using the no. 1 overall pick on a player, like UNC third baseman Colin Moran, who isn't the best available but who is a top-five talent willing to accept a below-slot deal, thus allowing the Astros to draft and sign more top prospects later in the draft. The Astros can use this tactic because, holding the first pick, they can launch their plot without being subject to the whims of other teams. Eliminate the draft and every team will be able to strategize this way. The draft is also used as a mechanism to punish or reward teams who are active in free agency — teams that sign a premier free agent lose a draft pick, while the team that loses the free agent gains a draft pick in compensation. There's no reason that compensation system can't be tailored to a draft-free system in which bonus pool dollars would substitute for draft picks. One of the biggest frustrations with the current system — for fans and many MLB front offices — is the limitation placed on trading draft picks. As the NFL and NBA have shown, the ability to trade draft picks adds intrigue and exposure to the draft, while granting teams the flexibility to acquire the talent they covet. Major League Baseball finally got around to dipping its toes in the water of draft pick trades, as the new CBA allows teams to trade certain "competitive balance" draft picks during carefully defined windows in the sport's calendar. But in a draft-free world, you don't have to worry about this issue. Instead, you can allow teams to trade bonus pool dollars. Now, if a contender wants to trade for Player X from a rebuilding squad in July, if they can't agree on a prospect, they can just come to terms on a dollar figure in the subsequent draft. It would be harder to make the case to abolish the draft if the draft were working — if the best players get picked first and on down the line. But it hasn't worked that way in at least a quarter century. Prior to the new CBA, some of the most highly regarded (and expensive) talents would tumble down the draft until they fell to a team willing to meet their demands, whether it was Rick Ankiel in 1997 ($2.5 million, drafted no. 72 overall) or Rick Porcello in 2006 ($7 million major league contract, drafted no. 27 overall). The new CBA limits that, but it has introduced new and unanticipated consequences. Last season, many teams elected to blow most of their bonus pool money on their first couple picks, then draft lightly regarded college seniors who would agree to minuscule bonuses. Maybe it's less broken than before, but when a team drafts a virtual unknown in the fourth round and signs him for $5,000 — as the Blue Jays did last year with Tucker Donahue — the draft is still broken. So blow it up. Give teams the freedom to make an offer to every player, and give players the freedom to accept any offer. The irony is that Major League Baseball already has this system in place — a system in which teams are allowed to sign any amateur player they want within the constraints of a bonus cap, and the players are allowed to sign with any team they want. It's just that this system applies only to international talent. As part of the new CBA, last year every team was capped6 at spending $2.9 million on international amateur talent, exempting players from certain Asian markets and Cuban defectors over the age of 23. The world did not end. The highest signing bonus was doled out by the New York Mets to Amed Rosario, a 16-year-old shortstop from the Dominican Republic, who received $1.75 million. Nine other players got seven-figure bonuses. The Yankees chose to spend $2.75 million on three players, leaving almost nothing for anyone else. Meanwhile, 16 teams elected to spread their money around, not spending even $600,000 on a single player. Different strokes for different folks. This year, each team's international signing cap will be determined by where they finished in the standings last season. The Astros can spend up to $4,943,700; the Nationals can spend only $1,846,900. Other than the signing cap, once the signing season opens on July 2, there are no restrictions. Teams can even trade bonus dollars. This is exactly the system we're advocating for Americans and Canadians subject to the draft. IT ALREADY EXISTS. But only for foreign ballplayers. Major League Baseball, bless its heart, is trying to synchronize the two systems. Only instead of synchronizing things by eliminating the draft for domestic players, naturally, they're trying to institute a draft on international players. It's difficult to articulate just how horrible this idea is; it's almost as bad as the Bonus Rule. Latin America is the Wild West of amateur baseball; signing a player frequently means dealing with the buscones who trained him since he was 11 years old and get a cut of his bonus, then waiting months for the player's date of birth and identity to be confirmed by the commissioner's office. Throughout this process, corruption — even, occasionally, among employees of the major league teams — is rampant. Virtually every scout in Latin America thinks implementing a draft there will be a disaster. Put it this way: If a draft is implemented, it's just a matter of time before two teams wind up accidentally drafting the same player, listed under two different names. If implementing an international draft would save teams money, at least you could justify it in pure Machiavellian terms. But now that a signing cap is in place, a draft wouldn't even do that. The high priority placed on this by the commissioner's office is bizarre. The good news is that MLB can't implement an international draft without the cooperation of the players' union, and last week the MLBPA vetoed the idea. (This, after more than 150 Latin American players on major league rosters signed a petition expressing their opposition to an international draft.) There's a good chance the specter of an international draft won't be brought up again until the next CBA is negotiated, by which time Selig is likely to have retired,7 and with any luck his successor won't have the same zeal for the draft. We can only hope that, instead of trying to expand the draft, the next commissioner will take a good, hard look at whether the draft is necessary at all. Because it's not. The draft is an idea whose time has passed. A signing cap would limit costs and improve competitive balance while offering amateur players the freedom to choose their employer. It would also inject an added dose of intrigue and strategy to the game. It's time to ditch the draft. The game of baseball will be better for it. www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9348666/th ... replace-it

Edgy MD Jun 07 2013 08:50 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I'm not sure how the "immoral" aspect is addressed by imposing a cap. A monopoly imposing price controls on the suppliers is the crux of the immorality.

Vic Sage Jun 07 2013 09:02 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

i didn't read that article yet, but yeah, Edgy has been on this issue since the old Mets forum days, and I've always agreed with him (believe it or not, there are a few issues on which we are aligned). A draft is one of those things, like capitalism for the rich and socialism for the poor (i.e., the collapse of our economy and ensuing bank bailout), that should be illegal. In the case of the draft, its wrong not only from an anti-trust perspective but based on, you know, the civil war amendments that prohibit people from being deemed property. Perish the thought that the owners have to actually compete for new players. How could they artificially depress salaries that way? As for our #1 pick, I've heard too many commentators compare Smith to Ike Davis, but i don't see it and i don't like it. Yeah, he's a LH 1b/of with power and a good arm, like Ike. But Ike's long swing makes him much more of a swing-and-miss guy. This kid apparently has "the hit tool", with a smooth, quick, pretty swing that makes consistent contact. He has some power, and it will likely increase as he ages and fills out (power usually does). But if he's a .300/20hr LHed 1Bman with GG-potential, the Mets comp isn't Davis... It's John Olerud. Without the helmet. And that would be just fiiiiiiiiine with me.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2013 09:07 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure how the "immoral" aspect is addressed by imposing a cap. A monopoly imposing price controls on the suppliers is the crux of the immorality. The idea is to strike a balance between allowing the amateur the freedom to choose his employer and yet preserving competitive balance. We all know that the real reason for the draft, despite what MLB has always claimed, is mainly to control salaries, and thus, team expenses. An amateur has no choice but to play for the team that drafted him or wait at least another year before another team drafts him, and then go through the same process again. But reverting to the pre 1965 way of doing things, where every amateur is essentially a free agent will likely result in the richest teams acquiring the cream of the crop almost always. The author addresses this concern.

Ceetar Jun 07 2013 09:28 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I'm sure this system would have plenty of problems, although it does sound better. Here's something to ponder. I'm an owner, I spend millions upon millions of dollars to found a private baseball academy. Best equipment, personal trainers, nutritionists, guest appearances by MLB alums from my organization. And then spend 4 years before the draft molding these players into the best players they can be all while indoctrinating them to 'my way'. And do my best to keep other teams scouts and officials from knowing much about them as much as I can. You'd lose some anyway, but less than you think. Look at the 'long toss' example from that Grantland post. The kids will be used to preparing and working out the way I've told them is the best, and when they learn other teams don't do it that way? Not to mention that richer teams might be able to simply afford to hire more scouts and send them to lesser 'hot beds' of players and sign a guy that's actually legitimately talented for peanuts because no one knows he exists. Didn't the Cardinals do this at one point? Just sign a billion guys, make a billion minor league teams and end up with more talent out of it?

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2013 10:14 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Rany Jazayerli at Grantland sez: 'Abolish the draft!' and points to the current system for international free agents as a workable replacement model. I'm with him all the way, but Bud would never blow up his TV draft day. Very good read. Yeah, TV has virtually nothing to do with it. I doubt the draft show on MLBN (the whole TWO rounds that they actually show) would draw much more than test pattern ratings even if it weren't on opposite both the NBA Finals and one of the NHL semis. It's all about cost control and it's not like anyone makes much of a secret about that. Puig the FA getting $42 million while the younger and better known but draft-restricted Harper netted, what?, $12 or something, illustrates that quite nicely.

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2013 10:22 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Mets pick twice in the first eleven picks as this thing gets going again in less than an hour - starts with pick #74, Mets pick 76 & 84 Baseball America says that these guys (with BA's pre-draft ranks for them) are the best ones who went undrafted yesterday - for whatever that's worth 25. Jon Denney, c, Yukon (Okla.) HS 34. Connor Jones, rhp, Great Bridge HS, Chesapeake, Va. 35. Kyle Serrano, rhp, Farragut (Tenn.) HS 37. Bobby Wahl, rhp, Mississippi 42. Cord Sandberg, of, Manatee HS, Bradenton, Fla. 48. Rowdy Tellez, 1b, Elk Grove (Calif.) HS 49. Trey Masek RHP 4YR Texas Tech 50. Andrew Mitchell RHP 4YR Texas Christian 58. Ryan Boldt OF HS Red Wing (Minn.) HS 61. Kent Emanuel LHP 4YR North Carolina 63. Tyler O’Neill C HS Garibaldi SS, Maple Ridge, B.C. 65. Dom Nunez C HS Elk Grove (Calif.) HS 66. Garrett Williams LHP HS Calvary Baptist HS, Shreveport, La. 67. Cavan Biggio 2B HS St. Thomas HS, Houston 68. Jared King OF 4YR Kansas State 70. Chandler Eden RHP HS Yuba City (Calif.) HS 72. Chris Okey C HS Eustis, Fla., HS 73. Tyler Skulina RHP/1B 4YR Kent State 75. Jacoby Jones 2B 4YR Louisiana State 78. A.J. Vanegas RHP 4YR Stanford 79. Michael O’Neill OF 4YR Michigan 80. Jake Brentz LHP HS Parkway South HS, Manchester, Mo.. 81. Trey Michalczewski 3B HS Jenks (Okla.) HS 84. Garrett Hampson SS HS Reno (Nev.) HS 85. A.J. Puk LHP HS Washington HS, Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2013 10:35 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Best name on the list: Rowdy Tellez Maybe some day the Mets can have Rainy and Rowdy on the roster.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 10:58 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I'm not sure exactly what Church's story is, but what I do know is really strange: 3 high schools in 4 years, without pitching for one of their teams since freshman year. Yeah, kinda strange story with this kid. Amazin Avenue has some details and also says he's got '#2 ceiling'. Shoot for the stars, son.

seawolf17 Jun 07 2013 11:01 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

It'd be fun to draft Biggio The Younger, I think.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 11:09 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Mets pick twice in the first eleven picks as this thing gets going again in less than an hour - starts with pick #74, Mets pick 76 & 84 Baseball America says that these guys (with BA's pre-draft ranks for them) are the best ones who went undrafted yesterday - for whatever that's worth 25. Jon Denney, c, Yukon (Okla.) HS 34. Connor Jones, rhp, Great Bridge HS, Chesapeake, Va. 35. Kyle Serrano, rhp, Farragut (Tenn.) HS 37. Bobby Wahl, rhp, Mississippi 42. Cord Sandberg, of, Manatee HS, Bradenton, Fla. 48. Rowdy Tellez, 1b, Elk Grove (Calif.) HS 49. Trey Masek RHP 4YR Texas Tech 50. Andrew Mitchell RHP 4YR Texas Christian 58. Ryan Boldt OF HS Red Wing (Minn.) HS 61. Kent Emanuel LHP 4YR North Carolina 63. Tyler O’Neill C HS Garibaldi SS, Maple Ridge, B.C. 65. Dom Nunez C HS Elk Grove (Calif.) HS 66. Garrett Williams LHP HS Calvary Baptist HS, Shreveport, La. 67. Cavan Biggio 2B HS St. Thomas HS, Houston 68. Jared King OF 4YR Kansas State 70. Chandler Eden RHP HS Yuba City (Calif.) HS 72. Chris Okey C HS Eustis, Fla., HS 73. Tyler Skulina RHP/1B 4YR Kent State 75. Jacoby Jones 2B 4YR Louisiana State 78. A.J. Vanegas RHP 4YR Stanford 79. Michael O’Neill OF 4YR Michigan 80. Jake Brentz LHP HS Parkway South HS, Manchester, Mo.. 81. Trey Michalczewski 3B HS Jenks (Okla.) HS 84. Garrett Hampson SS HS Reno (Nev.) HS 85. A.J. Puk LHP HS Washington HS, Cedar Rapids, Iowa Astros take the dude in bold. Cubs up, Mets next. Edit: Cubs take a kid from BYU just back from his Mormon mission. YOUR NEW YORK METS ON THE CLOCK... #rowdyorbust

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 11:11 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Mets take a high school kid from Louisiana named Ivan Wilson.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 07 2013 11:12 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

High school outfielder Ivan Wilson...

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 11:13 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

6'3", 220. Big feller. http://www.baseballfactory.com/AllAmerica/alumni/2012/American/Ivan-Wilson

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 07 2013 11:16 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

That fucker can hit.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 11:20 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Ha. Up again here in 2 more picks.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2013 11:22 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Ivan Wilson. That's one ugly cap he's wearing.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 11:26 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Mets take 6'7" right-handed pitcher Casey Meisner from Texas. Here's Casey yall:

Lefty Specialist Jun 07 2013 11:27 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

6'7" and sticks his tongue out just like Pelfrey.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 11:39 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ivan Wilson. That's one ugly cap he's wearing. Signability may be an issue with this kid. He's from a wealthy family in Bel-Air (his father Phil is a successful judge) and he's rumored to be on his way to Princeton. Has a famous cousin, Will, from Philadelphia.

Edgy MD Jun 07 2013 11:48 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure how the "immoral" aspect is addressed by imposing a cap. A monopoly imposing price controls on the suppliers is the crux of the immorality. The idea is to strike a balance between allowing the amateur the freedom to choose his employer and yet preserving competitive balance. We all know that the real reason for the draft, despite what MLB has always claimed, is mainly to control salaries, and thus, team expenses. An amateur has no choice but to play for the team that drafted him or wait at least another year before another team drafts him, and then go through the same process again. But reverting to the pre 1965 way of doing things, where every amateur is essentially a free agent will likely result in the richest teams acquiring the cream of the crop almost always. The author addresses this concern. Thanks for summarizing, but I'm up for trashing the notion of competitive balance, too. Real competitive balance would allow any team that thought they could pull it off to park a stadium in greater New York and go head-to-head with the Yankees and Mets. You want competitive balance, then don't entertain notions of exclusive access to marketplaces. Greater New York could support six teams.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2013 11:54 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure how the "immoral" aspect is addressed by imposing a cap. A monopoly imposing price controls on the suppliers is the crux of the immorality. The idea is to strike a balance between allowing the amateur the freedom to choose his employer and yet preserving competitive balance. We all know that the real reason for the draft, despite what MLB has always claimed, is mainly to control salaries, and thus, team expenses. An amateur has no choice but to play for the team that drafted him or wait at least another year before another team drafts him, and then go through the same process again. But reverting to the pre 1965 way of doing things, where every amateur is essentially a free agent will likely result in the richest teams acquiring the cream of the crop almost always. The author addresses this concern. Thanks for summarizing, but I'm up for trashing the notion of competitive balance, too. Real competitive balance would allow any team that thought they could pull it off to park a stadium in greater New York and go head-to-head with the Yankees and Mets. You want competitive balance, then don't entertain notions of exclusive access to marketplaces. Greater New York could support six teams. I'm totally on board with that. But it's less likely to happen than blowing up the draft in the way that Jazayerli sugggests.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 12:07 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Hey, smart guys, I'm telling 'Fresh Prince' jokes here. Round 4, pick 116, Mets take Lee Mazzilli!! LJ Mazzilli, second baseman, UCONN. [youtube]r0jh71l4Pxg[/youtube] "Hey, LJ, your shirt's all wrinkled." LJ: "No problem."

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 12:51 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 07 2013 01:16 PM

Round 5, pick 146, Mets go with their second college kid, Jared King, a switch hitting outfielder from Kansas State. Bro on MLB.tv sez, 'tremendous value, not sure how he lasted 5 rounds.'

Lefty Specialist Jun 07 2013 12:55 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Oh, LJ, those selfies will still be on the internet when your abs are as wrinkly as that UConn shirt.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 01:12 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

This is pretty funny. Kid who hates the Yankees gets drafted by the Yankees. In his interview, he looks like he's just been told he has AIDS, but should live a really long time.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2013 01:39 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Mazzilli will be 23 in September. King will be 22 in October.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 01:45 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Round 6, pick 176 - Mets draft the 'toolsy' and excellently named Champ Stuart from Brevard College. Champ's a native of the Bahamas.

G-Fafif Jun 07 2013 01:54 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

LJM lookin' to be mentored by Anthony Recker. Or Anthony Weiner.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 02:12 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

"Pitchability" is the stupidest scout term I've heard said like 8 billion fuckin times today.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 02:20 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

ABNS still bored on a quiet day at work and bringing you exciting draft news you can easily find ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET... Round 7, pick 206, and your New York Mets take... Matt Oberste, first baseman, University of Oklahoma. BA's Jim Callis 'really likes this guy'. Here he is wearing a whack-ass helmet:

Edgy MD Jun 07 2013 02:24 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

1976 and 2013. Like father, like son. "Undershirts for other men, Junior. Lesser men." "What's an undershirt, Pop?"

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2013 02:29 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I don't know if it's coincidence or design, but they're drafting older players in the later rounds. The first four guys were all born in 1994 or 1995, but the next four were 1990, 1991, 1992, 1991.

Ceetar Jun 07 2013 02:31 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know if it's coincidence or design, but they're drafting older players in the later rounds. The first four guys were all born in 1994 or 1995, but the next four were 1990, 1991, 1992, 1991. the 'trick' last year at least was to draft college seniors in the 7-10th round or so because they have zero leverage and will sign for whatever you tell them. You then take that money and give it to the high rounders, or a gamble pick at 11-15 to entice someone away from going to college.

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2013 02:40 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know if it's coincidence or design, but they're drafting older players in the later rounds. The first four guys were all born in 1994 or 1995, but the next four were 1990, 1991, 1992, 1991. the 'trick' last year at least was to draft college seniors in the 7-10th round or so because they have zero leverage and will sign for whatever you tell them. You then take that money and give it to the high rounders, or a gamble pick at 11-15 to entice someone away from going to college. Right. It's a by-product of the new (as of last year) 'Overall Cap' system. There's no limit on what you can spend on any one player but there is on the cumulative total of your first (I think it's Ten) rounds. So, like Ceetar said, by going under the recommended 'slot' on some players you can maybe shift what you save over to a tougher sign.

Edgy MD Jun 07 2013 02:48 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Sheesh, it's like tax law. You claim it's designed to help the poor, but all it does is encourage the rich to come up with ever-more-sophisticated dodges.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 02:50 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know if it's coincidence or design, but they're drafting older players in the later rounds. The first four guys were all born in 1994 or 1995, but the next four were 1990, 1991, 1992, 1991. the 'trick' last year at least was to draft college seniors in the 7-10th round or so because they have zero leverage and will sign for whatever you tell them. You then take that money and give it to the high rounders, or a gamble pick at 11-15 to entice someone away from going to college. Right. It's a by-product of the new (as of last year) 'Overall Cap' system. There's no limit on what you can spend on any one player but there is on the cumulative total of your first (I think it's Ten) rounds. So, like Ceetar said, by going under the recommended 'slot' on some players you can maybe shift what you save over to a tougher sign. Exactly what the Astros did last year. Another great Grantland piece.

Swan Swan H Jun 07 2013 03:06 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

The Mets eighth round pick is named Forrestt Allday. Yes, that's how it's spelled. He should have been a first rounder on his name alone.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 03:07 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

MLB is telling me round 8 (pick 236) is actually Ricky Knapp, pitcher from Florida Gulf Coast University. His old man, Rick, is a pitching coordinator for the Dodgers.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 07 2013 03:10 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Edgy MD wrote: Sheesh, it's like tax law. You claim it's designed to help the poor, but all it does is encourage the rich to come up with ever-more-sophisticated dodges. Isn't it a little more even-handed? The real trick seems to be to draft someone who'll sign for, say, a million or two under slot in the first*, then use that million to tempt a couple more iffy-signability types from their verbal commitments in the middle rounds. Expand the middle-class! Hand up, not hand out! *Assuming there's no once-in-a-generation type up when your team is scheduled to pick

Swan Swan H Jun 07 2013 03:11 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Hrm... Rubin tweeted it, then deleted it.

Ceetar Jun 07 2013 03:16 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Sheesh, it's like tax law. You claim it's designed to help the poor, but all it does is encourage the rich to come up with ever-more-sophisticated dodges. Isn't it a little more even-handed? The real trick seems to be to draft someone who'll sign for, say, a million or two under slot in the first*, then use that million to tempt a couple more iffy-signability types from their verbal commitments in the middle rounds. Expand the middle-class! Hand up, not hand out! *Assuming there's no once-in-a-generation type up when your team is scheduled to pick _That_ is what the Astros did. Basically got two first round picks that way .

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2013 03:20 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Sheesh, it's like tax law. You claim it's designed to help the poor, but all it does is encourage the rich to come up with ever-more-sophisticated dodges. Isn't it a little more even-handed? The real trick seems to be to draft someone who'll sign for, say, a million or two under slot in the first*, then use that million to tempt a couple more iffy-signability types from their verbal commitments in the middle rounds. Expand the middle-class! Hand up, not hand out! *Assuming there's no once-in-a-generation type up when your team is scheduled to pick Plus, the better teams (and likely, or at least presumably, wealthier) have less total money to spend on the entire draft. So whatever the better teams can do, the worsers can do better than the betters.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 07 2013 03:29 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Instead of Iffy-Signability Ivan in the early third, we could have had 1A-ranked prep catcher-with-a-bat/consensus mid-first-rounder this guy. I realize fully how pointless the who-we-could-have-had exercise is, but... man, can you EVER have too much catching depth?

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 03:45 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I think signability is part of the reason Denny slipped so much, though.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 03:50 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Round 9, 266 Mets go college outfielder again and take Patrick Biondi, from U. of Michigan. "Tremendous pick" sez MLB.com guy.

Zvon Jun 07 2013 03:55 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Round 9, 266 Mets go college outfielder again and take Patrick Biondi, from U. of Michigan. "Tremendous pick" sez MLB.com guy. I love the glove TM

A Boy Named Seo Jun 07 2013 04:31 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Round 10, pick 296, Mets grab shortshop Luis Guillorme from Coral Springs Charter High School in Florida. MLB.com bros say he's all glove and even dropped the name 'Omar Vizquel'.

Zvon Jun 07 2013 04:54 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Round 10, pick 296, Mets grab shortshop Luis Guillorme from Coral Springs Charter High School in Florida. MLB.com bros say he's all glove and even dropped the name 'Omar Vizquel'. All glove? Bummer. I love the glove TM when a player is in the field. When he's at the plate I love the bat.

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2013 05:07 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

"Tremendous pick" sez MLB.com guy. Just once I'd like to hear somebody say of a newly picked guy: 'Yeah this guy is almost certain to suck. Bad kid too; even for a product of his dysfunctional, trailer-park, white-trash family this dude is a real asshole'

Frayed Knot Jun 07 2013 05:19 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Love this tweet from BA's John Manual: Paul O'Neill's nephew goes to the Yankees, Michigan OF Michael O'Neill. Uncle throws helmet in celebration

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 07 2013 07:01 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Holy fuck!! LJ Mazzilli!! "I'm so grateful for this opportunity from the New York Mets and from Jeff Wilpon," L.J. said on a conference call. "I'm so excited to start, whenever I do start, and work hard and try to bring another Mazzilli to the Mets. It's a cool opportunity to be drafted by the same team as my dad, who was picked 40 years [ago]."

seawolf17 Jun 08 2013 03:45 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I remember LJ walking around the college fair with his dad at Greenwich HS several years ago. (I do not, however, remember seeing Matt Harvey at Fitch.)

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2013 07:08 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Rounds 11 through the end -- what do they go now, 40? -- resume today. The most interesting part about this day is that the money cap situation disappears after ten rounds so you may see some teams take flyers on HS kids who are thought to be committed to colleges. I notice that Biggio's kid, for instance, hasn't been selected at all so far despite being listed as having Top-100 talent. He's supposedly headed to college (forget where) but somebody will probably spend a pick today in order to throw a wad of money at him now that that amount won't affect what they can pay to anybody else and see if they can talk him out of college and into uniform NOW!!!!

Edgy MD Jun 08 2013 07:33 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Problem with that one in particular is that if he's Biggio's kid, he's probably not hurting for a new car. I imagine that most of the legacies do at least a few years of college these days.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 08 2013 08:34 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Reading up on the draft sounds as though the geekosphere highly approves of a Mets draft for the first time in years. Smith -- potential superstar Church -- throws 95 Wilson -- Raw but already a serious power hitter Meisner -- 6-foot-7 "Projectable" curveballer Mazzilli -- college senior, scrappy 2Bman with weak glove but a wonderful Met legacy King - switch-hitting OF Stuart -- world-class speep Oberste -- college power/contact guy Knapp -- polished 4-pitch guy, son of MLB pitching coach Biondi -- serious CF leather, leadoff guy Guillorme -- Best SS glove there was Looks as though most of them have good potential to be MLB players and the longer shots possess rare abilities. And the ones with less star potential have bloodlines. These fuckers can hit.

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2013 08:37 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Problem with that one in particular is that if he's Biggio's kid, he's probably not hurting for a new car. I imagine that most of the legacies do at least a few years of college these days. All true, but someone might still try unless papa Bidge has sent word out not to even bother. And, even if not him, there will still be others who'll get big bucks thrown at them for similar reasons. The way things are set up now, the high-talent kid who swears he's going to college in order to get his price up gets passed over in the 1st & 2nd rounds because teams want a surer thing there; he then gets passed over in Rounds 3-10 because teams can't spend what he wants there without blowing up their entire draft on account of the money allotted getting smaller with each round and pick. That leaves Round 11 on beyond for those kind of chances.

Edgy MD Jun 08 2013 11:32 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

The Mets wasted a draft pick on Glen Johnson who up and went to college. You'd figure if anybody's going to be square with you about what'd it take to sign their kid, it'd be your major league batting coach. As for Mazzilli Junior, the next move the Mets need to make after signing him is to convince his dad to abdure his sinful ways and take their offer to manage the Cyclones (and LJ) this summer.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 08 2013 11:59 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

5 picks so far today, 5 college players. 326 - Tyler Bashlor, RHP South Georgia College 356 - Jeff McNeil, SS Cal St. Long Beach 386 - Kevin McGowan, RHP Franklin Pierce University 416 - JD Leckenby, RHP Washington St. 446 - Colton Plaia, C Loyola Marymount University

A Boy Named Seo Jun 08 2013 12:07 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Tyler Bashlor: MLB.com calls him a 'sturdy right hander'. This is Tyler's FB cover photo. His pet deer looks really sleepy.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 08 2013 12:12 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Jeff McNeil, Long Beach St. Started every game and struck out only 11 times in 221 AB's. Played 4 positions and was pretty good apparently... named first team all conference as utility player.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 08 2013 12:17 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Kevin McGowan 6'6", 215 pounds. Bet he's projectable.

Zvon Jun 08 2013 12:20 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Hey mom, don't forget to turn on the dead eye filter!

A Boy Named Seo Jun 08 2013 12:22 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

JD Leckenby. Sidewinder runs it up in the high 80's apparently. #EddieKunz2.0 MLB Scouting Vid He's a Christian and fisherman. He and Tyler Bashlor are gonna best bros. From JD's twitter: "Philippians 4:13 - live4him brothers in crist - Cougs Baseball and Criminal Law, Blessed to be a Coug and to be where i am today. Go Cougs!"

A Boy Named Seo Jun 08 2013 12:27 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Colton Plaia. Another bruiser at 6'3", 225. WCC all conference team, including defensive player of the year.

Frayed Knot Jun 09 2013 07:19 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Local kid alert -- 29th round pick: Anthony Ray, LHP from Ward Melville HS out in East Setauket (L.I.) And if this sounds slightly familiar it may be because the Mets spent their top pick (#78 overall) four years ago for a LHP from the same town/same HS - Steven Matz And Matz is actually pitching regularly this season for the first time since injuring himself while signing his contract. Results have been mixed: 10 starts, 2-3, 3.22, 1.30 WHiP at Savannah, but it's a (re)beginning.

Frayed Knot Jun 09 2013 07:26 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Cavan Biggio - 29th round to the Phillies Enjoy campus life son.

Edgy MD Jun 10 2013 08:59 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Basically Everyone Related To An MLB Player Was Drafted We've gone over this before, but there's no sport that can match baseball for pure draft nepotism. Some of them are legit prospects: Colin Moran, J.P Crawford, and Hunter Harvey went in the first round. But most won't amount to anything, despite their superior baseball genetics. It's still understandable: the PR of taking a legend's son, or even a great-grandnephew more than outweighs the value available the 35th round. Now that the 2013 draft is in the books, let's run down the bloodlines. Sons and grandsons: Craig Biggio's son Roger Clemens's son Andy Pettitte's son Torii Hunter's son Bucky Dent's son Clay Bellinger's son Edwin Diaz's son Ned Eades's son Mike Benjamin's son Bryan Harvey's son Paul Quantrill's son Calvin Schiraldi's son Kirt Manwaring's son Jamie Moyer's son Scott Nielsen's son Lee Mazzilli's son Tim Wallach's son Walt Weiss's son John Farrell's son Tim Unroe's son Ed Williams's son Frank Wren's son Mark Leiter's son (and Al Leiter's nephew) Vance Law's son (and Vern Law's grandson) Lee May's grandson Carl Yastrzemski's grandson Brothers: Jason Heyward's brother Justin Verlander's brother Rex Brothers's brother Kyle Seager's brother A.J. Griffin's brother Nolan Arenado's brother Other: Carl Crawford's cousin Brad Lidge's cousin B.J. Surhoff's nephew Paul O'Neill's nephew Gary Sheffield's nephew Robin Yount's nephew Chris Speier's nephew "Shoeless" Joe Jackson's great-grandnephew Undrafted: Manny Ramirez's son Kurt Bevacqua's son Rafael Palmeiro's son Pat Borders's son Jay Buhner's son John Cangelosi's son John Franco's son Bob Geren's son Frank Wren's other son Harmon Killebrew's grandson Willie Stargell's grandson Alex Rodriguez's nephew Dan Plesac's nephew Ruben Amaro's nephew

Vic Sage Jun 10 2013 10:20 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

These fuckers can hit. yeah, baby. oh, and fuck baby Mazz and the cornholin' daddy who conceived him.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 10 2013 10:27 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Full list of all the day 3 dudes. 11th round/326th overall: RHP Taylor Bashlor, South Georgia College 12 round/356th overall: SS Jeff McNeil, Cal State Long Beach 13th round/386th overall: RHP Kevin McGowan, Franklin Pierce University 14th round/416th overall: RHP JD Leckenby, Washington State University 15th round/446th overall: C Colton Plaia, Loyola Marymount University 16th round/476th overall: C Zach Mathieu. Franklin Pierce University 17th round/506th overall: RHP Johnny Magliozzi, University of Florida 18th round/536th overall: RHP Brent McMinn, University of Nevada-Reno 19th round/566th overall: RHP Cody Crouse, Bloomingdale Senior HS 20th round/596th overall: RHP Dan Hermann, Christian Brothers College HS 21st round/626th overall: RHP Morgan Earman, Desert Christian Academy HS 22nd round/656th overall: RHP Daniel Procopio, Central Technical HS 23rd round/686th overall: RHP Gaither Bumgardner, University of South Carolina-Upstate 24th round/716th overall: RHP Matt Brill, Moline HS 25th round/746th overall: RHP Ricky Jacquez, Central Arizona College 26th round/776th overall: C Owen Spiwak, Cawthra Park SS HS 27th round/806th overall: RHP Austin Coley, Belmont University 28th round/836th overall: RHP Robert Coles, Florida State University 29th round/866th overall: LHP Anthony Kay, Ward Melville HS 30th round/896th overall: RHP David McKay, Viera HS 31st round/926th overall: RHP Ben Hecht, St. Anthony HS 32nd round/956th overall: C Juan Escarra, Mater Academy Charter HS 33rd round/986th overall: RHP Ryan Chapman, Santa Ana College 34th round/1016th overall: RHP Cameron Griffen, Columbus State University 35th round/1046th overall: RHP Ty Williams, Seminole State College 36th round/1076th overall: 1B Brandon Brosher, Springstead HS 37th round/1106th overall: 1B Juan Avena, Compton Community College 38th round/1136th overall: LHP Paul Paez, Rio Hondo College 39th round/1166th overall: 1B Logan Quimuyog, Mosley HS 40th round/1196th overall: OF JB Woodman, Edgewater HS

Frayed Knot Jun 11 2013 12:39 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

We have our first reported signing of the draft in 10th round pick Luis Guillorme Only one problem ... This Fucker CAN'T Hit!

Vic Sage Jun 11 2013 01:05 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Ordonez is the comp? but not as good? And we paid over slot for him? Hey Sandy, the fucker can't hit... whaddya doin?

metirish Jun 11 2013 01:09 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

All I can say it the video is worth watching for his defensive play.....it was a wow, don't blink

Frayed Knot Jun 11 2013 02:59 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Vic Sage wrote: Ordonez is the comp? but not as good? And we paid over slot for him? Hey Sandy, the fucker can't hit... whaddya doin? Well, at 18 y/o (or thereabouts) there's always the slight chance that he could learn to hit. Not a big chance most likely, but 10th round picks don't have a real big chance to begin with so maybe it's worth the shot that he'll go through some Ozzie-like learning curve with the stick.

Edgy MD Jun 11 2013 03:19 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Yeah, the notion is that they always name an all-star/former all-star as the comp at the scouting bureau. The reality juice comes from a Mets blogger looking for a most- or more-likely scenario, rather than an if-everything-falls-into-place one. And it's a tenth-rounder. You know what's an even more likely scenario? The likes of Corey Ragsdale or David Reaver or somebody. A AA flameout that was a nice dream but a typically passing one.

Nymr83 Jun 11 2013 07:53 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

I would suspect that as far as guys outside the first few rounds go, the Gold Glove SS with no bat ends up useful more often than the guy with some bat who doesn't have a defensive position, particularly for an NL team. The lack of foot-speed is concerning, as it probably precludes him becoming a super-sub who can give you great defense at 6 positions.

Nymr83 Jun 11 2013 07:56 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Undrafted: Manny Ramirez's son Kurt Bevacqua's son Rafael Palmeiro's son Pat Borders's son Jay Buhner's son John Cangelosi's son John Franco's son Bob Geren's son Frank Wren's other son Harmon Killebrew's grandson Willie Stargell's grandson Alex Rodriguez's nephew Dan Plesac's nephew Ruben Amaro's nephew Ramirez and Palmiero really burned all the bridges huh? I'm surprised Franco's kid couldn't get our last pick, maybe a minor-league invite next spring training?

Frayed Knot Jun 11 2013 08:03 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Teams would draft Hitler's son if they thought he could play. If some guy's kid wasn't drafted it's because no one thought they're good enough or signable enough to make it worth a pick. And as drafts have gone from 60+ rounds, to 50 rounds, and now down to 40 rounds, there aren't as many throw-away picks as there used to be.

Frayed Knot Jun 11 2013 09:23 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Nymr83 wrote: I would suspect that as far as guys outside the first few rounds go, the Gold Glove SS with no bat ends up useful more often than the guy with some bat who doesn't have a defensive position, particularly for an NL team. The lack of foot-speed is concerning, as it probably precludes him becoming a super-sub who can give you great defense at 6 positions. A guy with this kind profile isn't the guy you look to shift among different positions. Either he learns to hit at least marginally and he becomes at minimum a backup SS known for his glove, or he doesn't and never sees a ML uniform. But if the reports about his defense hold up then he's a guy who, when he's on the field, it's going to be as a SS; it was the only reason he was drafted at all. Checking back over nine years (270 players) of 10th round draft picks (2000-2008) it looks like an average of between five and six each year find their way to a ML club with maybe one per becoming a starter at least at some point.

Edgy MD Jun 11 2013 09:40 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Well, he could become a punchless utility man, although those guys aren't as prevelant as they used to be. You need Turners --- with decent bats but only modest range, because short benches mean using them as pinch-hitters more. There's no shortage of players who've been drafted for their defensive prowess by teams who believe they can teach them to hit. Scouts love that shit. It's just that most of these players indeed don't learn to hit.

Frayed Knot Jun 12 2013 10:22 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Sickels on NYM draft 1-11) Dominic Smith, 1B, Serra HS, Gardena, CA 2-48) Andrew Church, RHP, Basic HS, Henderson, NV 3-76) Ivan Wilson, OF, Ruston HS, LA 3-84) Casey Meisner, RHP, Cypress Woods HS, Cypress, TX 4-116) L.J. Mazzilli, 2B, Connecticut 5-146) Jared King, OF, Kansas State Others of interest: 7) Matt Oberste, 1B, Oklahoma; 8) Ricky Knapp, RHP, Florida Gulf Coast; 9) Patric Biondi, OF, Michigan; 10) Luis Guillorme, SS, Florida HS; 15) Colton Plaia, C, Loyola Marymount COMMENT: A mixed class, with upside early then shifting gears to more polished college guys. Smith has the bat for first base and could win gold gloves too. Church and Meisner are athletic, projectable types who will need patient development; Wilson is a strong athlete who will need similar perseverance. Bloodlined Mazzilli, switch-hitting King, power hitter Oberste, strike-throwing Knapp, and speedy Biondi are all solid college choices in their rounds who provide depth to the system; all have a chance to exceed expectations. There is risk at the top but balance as well.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 13 2013 10:30 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

ESPNNewYork.com wrote: NEW YORK -- The Mets are close to signing first-round pick Dominic Smith, according to a source. The Mets selected Smith, a first baseman out of Serra HS (Calif.), with the 11th pick in this year's draft. He took swings at Citi Field on Sunday, and even stayed for all 20 innings of the Mets-Marlins game on Saturday. Smith's recommended slot value, according to multiple websites, is $2,840,300. Smith is committed to play at University of Southern California if he is not able to work out a deal with the Mets.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 20 2013 09:39 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Has anyone been tracking who has been signed and who hasn't?

Frayed Knot Jun 20 2013 09:58 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Has anyone been tracking who has been signed and who hasn't? See This Link Supposedly all the names in Bold have beens signed--which means all of the top guys. Some of the ones without dollar figures filled in might not be officially official yet but BA is comfortable enough to know they happened so have it chalked up in the 'Done' category. It's, y'know, like calling Florida in national elections.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 20 2013 09:59 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

15 of the top 16. Get on the ball, Leckenby.

Edgy MD Jun 20 2013 10:04 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Logan Quimuyog = equipment manager's nightmare.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 20 2013 10:13 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Edgy MD wrote: Logan Quimuyog = equipment manager's nightmare. Schaefer tallier's nightmare too. We have people here who can't spell "Tejada".

Benjamin Grimm Jun 20 2013 10:14 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Frayed Knot wrote: See This Link Cool! Thanks. Looks like they've done pretty well in locking these guys up.

Edgy MD Jun 20 2013 10:15 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

And I believe they were pretty well believed to have done a pretty poor job in 2012.

Edgy MD Jun 20 2013 10:18 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Hey, they picked Paul Paez two years in a row --- signed him after going for him in Rd 38 this year after he turned them down for 18th round money last year. Looks dumb, but I imagine the money isn't all that different.

Frayed Knot Jun 20 2013 12:12 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

The deadline for signing, with the exception of college seniors, is 5 PM EDT on July 12th.

Edgy MD Aug 28 2013 12:37 PM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Domonic Smiff, promoted from the Gulf Coast Mets to Kingsport for the Appy League Playoffs. Spazz, you're on your way!

Vic Sage Aug 29 2013 08:02 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

i thought the GCL and APP leagues were equivalent rookie-type A-ball leagues, no? So is that really a promotion, or a sideways thing to just get another bat in for their post-season? Either way, good for him. Looking at Smith's numbers this year at GCL, it looks like he's exactly the kind of line-driver with a good eye that we were told. Hopefully, he'll develop some power as he gets older. Most good hitters do, and he's only 18 so there's plenty of time. But it wouldn't be terrible either if he were just a .300/15hr gold glove-caliber 1bman, like the guy sitting in the broadcast booth.

Centerfield Aug 29 2013 08:20 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

Any video out there of his swing? I'd almost be ok letting him learn at the big league level just to not have to watch another ugly Ike Davis front-foot flail.

Vic Sage Aug 29 2013 11:40 AM Re: GREETINGS! -- aka: the draft thread 2013

you do realize that Ike has hit really well for about a month now, right? with an OPS around 1.000. I mean, i'm as down on him as the next guy, but give the fella his due.