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2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Benjamin Grimm Mar 14 2013 06:58 AM

I like Ruben Tejada. I don't think that he's likely to be a future All-Star or anything like that, but he does seem to be good enough to be part of a contending team's infield. He may have a long run as the Mets shortstop, unless Gavin Cecchini says otherwise. Anyway, for 2013, I expect similar numbers to what he's done in the past. .280, about 30 doubles. He will be among a small number of Mets (his fellow starting infielders) to get to 502 plate appearances.

Ceetar Mar 14 2013 07:06 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

I would love if he 'bulked up' a little, power wise, to get to 30 doubles. I just hope he can get his OBP up a wee bit to more 2011 levels and still keep his slugging higher than that. Hopefully he stays healthy, because I don't really like the drop off to the other guys. .292/.345/.360. 28 doubles, 1 HR. value-negative 10/15 SB. His typical average to slightly better defense at short. 2.8 WAR (misses the 3 because of the CS)

Vic Sage Mar 14 2013 08:44 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

An empty .275 -- no power, no speed -- with a decent, but not spectacular, glove. He's been a part-timer so far, either due to injury or performance, and i wouldn't be surprised to see him miss 40-50 games again this year. He hasn't broken 2WAR in a season yet, and i see no reason to think he will now. He's an adequate place-holder until we're competitive again, and then he'll need to be replaced.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 14 2013 09:21 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

I seem to remember being a lot more excited about this guy's potential to be something at this time last year but his stock is down in my mind. Hopeful he can boost his OBP and XBHs to a point where he's more than an average player but not really counting on it. Prove me wrong, Ruben! 1-25-289/333/351 in 501 PA. Yes, that's his line from last year too.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 14 2013 10:27 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 14 2013 11:23 AM

Vic Sage wrote: An empty .275 -- no power, no speed -- with a decent, but not spectacular, glove. He's been a part-timer so far, either due to injury or performance, and i wouldn't be surprised to see him miss 40-50 games again this year. He hasn't broken 2WAR in a season yet, and i see no reason to think he will now. He's an adequate place-holder until we're competitive again, and then he'll need to be replaced. He broke 2 wins last year, as per Fangraphs... starting 2/3 of the season; he was on pace for more than that the year before. His walk rate backslid a lot, but before that had increased in three straight seasons, to just shy of 10 percent (and patience/pitch selection tends only to increase with time, no?). His line-drive percentage and slugging went up-- he's hitting the ball harder; if the patience returns-- even in part-- he'll be better this year... maybe significantly. You want to get rid of a cheap 3-win shortstop? It would be prudent to replace him with someone who's All-Star level, or even cheaper/just as solid; it's tougher than you think. Gimme some bounce-back to a 7-8 percent BB rate, and this: 615 PA, 72 R, .289/.350/.368, 5 HR, 64 RBI, 33 XBH, some kind of clutchy cult nickname

Edgy MD Mar 14 2013 11:20 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

.304 / .381 / .422 / .794. By the skin of Buddy Harrelson's glove, we should all have a batting average so empty as Ruben's.

Ceetar Mar 14 2013 11:27 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Edgy MD wrote: .304 / .381 / .422 / .794. By the skin of Buddy Harrelson's glove, we should all have a batting average so empty as Ruben's. what's the fourth number?

Edgy MD Mar 14 2013 11:38 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Bad math. It should say .803.

Vic Sage Mar 14 2013 01:28 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

yeah, it should, but it's been .667 so far. and the WAR was 1.9 last year, according to Baseball Reference. And i didn't say we need to replace him now. And could we carry him in an otherwise strong lineup? yeah, i suppose so. we won one WS with Harrelson and one with Rafael Santana each getting most of the starts at SS. But we won't need an "all-star" to replace him when we want an upgrade. Just a good player. someone with more than the 86 OPS+ he's managed to date.

Ceetar Mar 14 2013 01:39 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

If I'm reading this right, the NL OPS+ in 2012 for SS was 90. So he's not really far off. The Mets were 8th in the league in SS OPS. Third in OBP and only one point behind the second place Nationals (first place is Marlins/Reyes) 5th in wRC. He's not Jose Reyes, but that's basically the biggest problem with him.

metirish Mar 14 2013 01:51 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

5th in the WRC? that's some good driving right there.

metirish Mar 14 2013 01:53 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Seriously though wRC – This is total runs created based of wOBA. It is calculated as (((wOBA – lgwOBA) / wOBAScale) + (lgR/PA)) * PA WTF? I like stats and all but again WTF is that?

Ceetar Mar 14 2013 02:00 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

metirish wrote: Seriously though wRC – This is total runs created based of wOBA. It is calculated as (((wOBA – lgwOBA) / wOBAScale) + (lgR/PA)) * PA WTF? I like stats and all but again WTF is that? It's scaled like OPS+ in that 100 is average and you go by percentages off of that. It's basically multiplying how much more you get on base than league average by the average runs scored per PA by the league. So last year players scored .114 runs per plate appearance for example. wOBA for the league was .315 (.304 for Ruben, so not great) so if you had a .315 you'd be at 100 if I'm reading that correctly. There are park/league adjustments as well in wRC+.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 14 2013 02:04 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

I think I would have loved this stuff 30 years ago. Now I don't even care to think about it.

Edgy MD Mar 14 2013 02:32 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

His WAR is very much a product of his games played --- his injury curtailing his playing time and possibly surpressing his productivity upon his return. The second point is obviously speculative, as is whether you think is injury is indicative of a developing pattern or a harbinger of a chronic impingement on his abilities. Projected over a workload the size of Jose Reyes', for example, you get 2.6 WAR (using the lower bb-ref figure), comparable to Reyes' 2.8. That won't redeem last season, certainly, but it may promise more hope than his injury shortened season provides on its own. It's easy to forget, but he was regularly thwacking doubles into the gap before his injury. He was hitting when he came back in July, but the doubles and walks weren't there. He's only 23, though, so I imagine he can still get his game firing on multiple cylinders at once. Jose Reyes was generally a less productive player than Ruben before he turned 23.

Edgy MD Mar 14 2013 02:56 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

His comparables through age 22 include some darn good players, including 2/3 of a poem. [list=1:39g4mdc4][*:39g4mdc4]Ozzie Guillen (963)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Mark Lewis (960)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Joe Tinker (958)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Granny Hamner (957)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Johnny Evers (956)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Mike Caruso (954)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Bucky Dent (951)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Donie Bush (949)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Alfredo Griffin (949)[/*:m:39g4mdc4] [*:39g4mdc4]Whitey Witt (946)[/*:m:39g4mdc4][/list:o:39g4mdc4] Not exactly Ernie Banks and Robin Yount, but not the kind of players you sneeze at either. And of course, the first guy is the one who was so utterly lacking in Ruben's best asset --- a good eye for the strike zone.

Ashie62 Mar 14 2013 03:30 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Needs to bulk up and play 150 games..Enough with the quad injuries...Bats .270 10SB not much else I'll take Buddy Harrelson over this guy evey day.. How about pinch fielders? We do it in softball..

Edgy MD Mar 14 2013 03:53 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

If Buddy Harrelson was the Mets shortstop today, he might get hatfuls of hate.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 14 2013 03:59 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

I'd hope that they'd cut him some slack. After all, he's 68 years old.

Ceetar Mar 14 2013 04:07 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'd hope that they'd cut him some slack. After all, he's 68 years old. Still got more range than Derek Jeter though.

Zvon Mar 14 2013 06:24 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

.308 avg/8HR/55rbi/12sb

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 14 2013 07:00 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Edgy MD wrote: If Buddy Harrelson was the Mets shortstop today, he might get hatfuls of hate. Hatfuls and hatfuls. Longevity and sentiment aside, Buddy was Ruben minus the relative power.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 14 2013 07:20 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Frayed Knot Mar 14 2013 07:51 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy MD wrote: If Buddy Harrelson was the Mets shortstop today, he might get hatfuls of hate. Hatfuls and hatfuls. Longevity and sentiment aside, Buddy was Ruben minus the relative power. Harrelson had, IMO, a better glove & range, better speed (63 BSs of 78 for one 3-year stretch), drew lots of walks (career .091 OBA-BA rate), and did come up just as the most most pitching friendly era since the dead-ball days was reaching its peak. Not that all that made him a great player, just one who was very dissimilar to Tejada.

Ashie62 Mar 14 2013 09:36 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Maybe Tejada can become the Met Icon Harrelson is..

Edgy MD Mar 15 2013 09:03 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

I don't mean to suggest he was all that similar, tool-wise. I only mean to suggest contemporary haters have less tolerance for players who persist at a position on solid but un-spectacular defense and modest but consistent offense.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 15 2013 10:15 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 15 2013 10:23 AM

Bud Harrelson was, at his peak, an all-star. He was more than adequate for the era that he played in. It's simply unfair to hold a player from 40 years ago to today's standards. Especially a shortstop, because the demands and requirements of the modern shortstop have likely evolved more so than any other position in baseball.

Edgy MD Mar 15 2013 10:23 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

And I mean to suggest that Tejada fills those needs at a comparable or better level to Harrelson's fulfillment of two generations ago. We certainly have the tools to compare players across eras.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 15 2013 10:24 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Edgy MD wrote: And I mean to suggest that Tejada fills those needs at a comparable or better level to Harrelson's fulfillment of two generations ago. We certainly have the tools to compare players across eras. I'm not disagreeing with anything you wrote on this topic, but I'd add that comparing players from different eras is not necessarily the same as holding a player from one era to the standards of another.

dinosaur jesus Mar 15 2013 11:19 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Even out of the context of the time, I think Buddy compares pretty well with Tejada offensively. Similar OBP, with a lower batting average but more walks. And he was a better baserunner. I like Ruben, though, and I see him continuing to progress: getting a little more patient, adding a little power. Just a little. I'll call a bit of a breakthrough this year: .294, .365, .380, with 30 doubles and 2 home runs.

Vic Sage Mar 19 2013 09:58 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Fangraphs weighs in on Tejada: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... shortstop/ Ranking our SS position at 22nd, they say: "Young shortstop, contact, limited power, defensive adequacy... Last season Tejada doubled his career home-run total, by hitting one. He had some injury problems but it remains to be seen whether he’ll be fragile or not down the road. He is patient, so he has the ability to draw a walk, but pitchers don’t have many reasons to walk him. Tejada’s a startable player who’s also an upgrade-able player." Which is pretty much what i've been saying here. Not that their view is definitive, of course, but independent verification is always appreciated.

MFS62 Mar 19 2013 09:44 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

dinosaur jesus wrote: I like Ruben, though, and I see him continuing to progress: getting a little more patient, adding a little power. Just a little. I'll call a bit of a breakthrough this year: .294, .365, .380, with 30 doubles and 2 home runs. This. Later

Benjamin Grimm Mar 28 2013 11:34 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Andy Martino, Daily News wrote: NY Mets not sold on Ruben Tejada Ruben Tejada is a talented and precocious young player, well-liked by teammates, but the Mets are not yet convinced he is the shortstop of the future. As the most recent evidence of this, the idea of sending Tejada to Triple-A and making Omar Quintanilla the Opening Day shortstop has been floated in staff meetings this spring, according to team insiders. “It was discussed a few times, but I highly doubt it will happen,” said one source. Still, many in the organization are very concerned about Tejada’s .080 spring batting average. Whether Tejada remains with the Mets all season, or ends up spending time in Las Vegas, the discussions are evidence of his current standing with the team. They also follow the Mets’ offseason willingness to move Tejada in the right deal. As John Harper reported earlier this spring, the Mets tried to include Tejada and/or Daniel Murphy in a deal for Arizona outfielder Justin Upton, who ultimately went to Atlanta. Many scouts still like Tejada, praising him for his two-strike hitting and overall baseball IQ, and one Mets person who has known the shortstop for several years called him “a great kid.” A rival evaluator said, “He’s a good player, but I feel like he has gone backward a little bit.” It appears that Tejada will keep his job for now, but it has become clear over the past few months that the Mets are not yet sold on him as the long-term solution.

Edgy MD Mar 28 2013 12:05 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

A slashity slash line of .080 / .193 / .160 // .353 during spring training will make folks reconsider your future fast. Hey! Dave Hudgens! Fix this!

batmagadanleadoff Mar 28 2013 12:23 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

I see Tejada as a placeholder. But not a bad shortstop. He's not the Mets worst problem, and besides, where the hell are the Mets going in the near future, anyways when Marlon Byrd is a middle-of-the-order hitter slated for, perhaps, hundreds of PA's?

Edgy MD Apr 06 2013 02:04 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Gotta be something we don't know about Ruben, right? Somewhere among the dreadful spring, the brief period when the Mets were reportedly considering farming him out to start the season, and the head-seemingly-not-in-the game start he's having to this season, is the answer. What's going on, Ruben?

Ashie62 Apr 06 2013 04:46 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

I hope he is not troubled by something that may be going on at home in Panama...

Edgy MD Apr 06 2013 08:46 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

He made a slick game-ending play just after I submitted that question, so I can only conclude that I motivated him, somehow.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 06 2013 08:50 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Was over at some Metly in-laws (in Phillie country, no less) for most of the day. Brother-in-law insisted after the second error that Terry should bench him tomorrow, no questions asked/answered. I protested-- mostly over the fact that the errors weren't effort-related/approach-related (and the who-plays-short-then issue) but then he asked, "Well, then what do you do?" I had nothing.

Edgy MD Apr 06 2013 09:00 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Well that's the added challenge of the situation. He might certainly have been farmed out if the team wasn't starved for options. Valdespin has plenty of experience but has established himself as erratic at the position. Turner has nice footwork around second and a decent stick but has very little horizontal range or much of an arm. Quintanilla is a defensible backup, but has little with regard to a future. Flores is reported to have Turner-like range. Havens is probably a little more stable, but not so good that he'd be anything less than a disaster if his bat doesn't turn it around. Brandon Hicks is huffing DL fumes, Adams isn't activated, and Bixler is riding AAA pine. Not much better in terms of options at Bingo or St. Lucie either. The plan is for him to hold down the fort there, and any decision they make is going to be with the long term in mind.

Centerfield May 29 2013 08:08 AM Ruben Tejada

He doesn't get on base, he doesn't hit for power, he doesn't run fast (and therefore can't steal bases). He doesn't have a strong arm, and this year, he can't even catch the ball. I'm not sure what more we hope to get out of this guy. Valdespin? Turner? Quintanilla? Didn't Alderson draft a SS a few years ago? I can't believe this is the only option we have.

metirish May 29 2013 08:12 AM Re: Ruben Tejada

He's gotten lazy or something, gotten shit? I wold rather see Quintanilla playing right now, he's not letting that ball pass by him for sure.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 29 2013 08:12 AM Re: Ruben Tejada

Yeah, I'd like to see the team punish Tejada with 2 weeks in Vegas, but apparently there's concern about a lack of organizational SS depth that might make sending Q back down afterward problematic.

Ceetar May 29 2013 08:14 AM Re: Ruben Tejada

Centerfield wrote: He doesn't get on base, he doesn't hit for power, he doesn't run fast (and therefore can't steal bases). He doesn't have a strong arm, and this year, he can't even catch the ball. I'm not sure what more we hope to get out of this guy. Valdespin? Turner? Quintanilla? Didn't Alderson draft a SS a few years ago? I can't believe this is the only option we have. Interesting how he's seemingly getting worse every year. the .280/.330/.350 version of Tejada isn't great, but it's average and that's something for a shortstop if he's playing the averagish defense he's capable of..but I dunno what to make of him. Of course, he's still the youngest player on the team (Only Familia younger this year). I don't want to see Quintanilla up here, but I wish we had a Ronny Cedeno type (or hell, play Turner occasionally) to spell him/sit him down.

Edgy MD May 29 2013 08:15 AM Re: Ruben Tejada

Turner is a non-option at shortstop, I think. His grace is that he may have more range than Murphy --- which is to say, not much of a grace. Mets have drafted many shortstops, but you're probably thinking of Gavin Cecchini, who hasn't graduated from short-season ball yet. He's struggling and I'm all on board with calling up Q, but it's important to distinguish what he isn't doing from what he can't do.

metirish May 29 2013 08:16 AM Re: Ruben Tejada

You don't want Quintanilla but would take Cedeno? , for a short spell what's the difference?

Ceetar May 29 2013 08:30 AM Re: Ruben Tejada

metirish wrote: You don't want Quintanilla but would take Cedeno? , for a short spell what's the difference? Cedeno's actually good, and seemed to perhaps take a step forward last year? Doing well with the Astros too.

Vic Sage May 29 2013 10:02 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

first of all, Cedeno isn't "good", he's simply a more established major league hitter than Omar, but neither of them are "good" in any objective sense of the word. Omar, however, seems to me a much better glove at SS than Cedeno. But that's all irrelevant since Omar is here and Cedeno isn't. The question is who is best for the Mets to play at SS now? I have no faith in Tejada, and never have. And if he's not even a reliable glove anymore, he's pointless. Let him go to AAA and rediscover his stroke (such as it is) and show some hustle and passion for the game. In the meantime, i'm sure Omar can hit the same .210, but be more consistent with the glove and play with a little more fire. If Ruben earns a promotion, you can always cut omar without losing a night's sleep.

Ceetar May 29 2013 02:00 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Vic Sage wrote: first of all, Cedeno isn't "good", he's simply a more established major league hitter than Omar, but neither of them are "good" in any objective sense of the word. Omar, however, seems to me a much better glove at SS than Cedeno. But that's all irrelevant since Omar is here and Cedeno isn't. The question is who is best for the Mets to play at SS now? I have no faith in Tejada, and never have. And if he's not even a reliable glove anymore, he's pointless. Let him go to AAA and rediscover his stroke (such as it is) and show some hustle and passion for the game. In the meantime, i'm sure Omar can hit the same .210, but be more consistent with the glove and play with a little more fire. If Ruben earns a promotion, you can always cut omar without losing a night's sleep. well, Cedeno is good, Much much much better than Q but I was on a tangent. The question isn't could Omar have hit better than .210 so far, it's if he'll outhit Ruben going forward. Do you believe in Ruben Tejada as slumping (same goes for Ike probably although at least there are actual hitters you could play there) with likely to play better at any moment, or do you think any success he has was figured out and he's done now? As people so much like to say, 2013 is a lost cause right? So why would you ever play a journeyman/Quad-A player over a 23 year old that's had some success at the position before? There is roughly 0 chance Quintanilla or even Turner is the SS of the future, and however low you think Tejada's chances are, they're certainly not nil. He would be the 6th youngest player on the 51s. You just don't write off a player that young.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 29 2013 02:15 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Don't make this too complicated. Ruben goes down to Vegas only until he proves he deserves to be back up.

Benjamin Grimm May 29 2013 03:01 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Don't make this too complicated. Ruben goes down to Vegas only until he proves he deserves to be back up. Yeah, it really is that simple.

Ceetar May 29 2013 03:03 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Benjamin Grimm wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Don't make this too complicated. Ruben goes down to Vegas only until he proves he deserves to be back up. Yeah, it really is that simple. nothing is ever simple.

Edgy MD May 29 2013 03:19 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Things That Are Generally Simple [list=1][*]Tic-Tac-Toe.[/*:m] [*]Heyman's writing.[/*:m] [*]The rules of Concentration.[/*:m] [*]The minds of Jim Kerr and his fellow bandmates.[/*:m] [*]The TV Guide crossword puzzle.[/*:m] [*]Basic single-digit arithmetic.[/*:m] [*]Taking your finger out of your nose when a girl is looking.[/*:m] [*]The decision to select Richard Dawson for the bonus round on Match Game.[/*:m] [*]Acknowledging the supremacy of the Beatles.[/*:m] [*]Life being either cherry red or midnight blue.[/*:m][/list:o]

Ceetar May 29 2013 03:23 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Suzyn Waldman? No?

vtmet May 29 2013 03:52 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ruben goes down to Vegas only until he proves he deserves to be a back-up. I think that Ruben has already proven that he's a "back up"...or a platoon player...simply not a starting shortstop on a decent MLB team...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 29 2013 09:14 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Does this make things simpler, or... DEVELOPING: In the bottom of the 4th inning, Omar Quintanilla has been removed from the game in Las Vegas. #Mets OE: AND there's your Rubin confirmation. Taxi squad, just in case? If more than that-- whether via DL or demotion for young Rube-- who comes off the 40?

Ceetar May 29 2013 09:24 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Frank Francisco to the 60-day? We haven't heard about him recently have we? We're approaching 60 days at this point anyway. Otherwise try to squeak Gonzalez Germen through? Familia to 60 day? Actison? Rick Ankiel? He's pretty useless. It wouldn't really be out of place since the Mets have 6 outfielders..

Zvon May 29 2013 09:28 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

He led off with an important single and then thought, YES, they wont send me down now. Then he stuck his head back up his ass. In around the 8th he realized he didn't do enough to save himself and started to worry about how he was gonna break the news to his mom about being demoted. In the 9th he saw his out and will call his mom tomorrow and tell her he didn't get demoted. He got injured. meeeeeh, 65% serious post.

Edgy MD May 29 2013 09:47 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Things That Are Generally Simple [list]... 11. Calling up Quintanilla[/list:u] There must be 50 ways to change your shortstop.

Ceetar May 29 2013 10:05 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Things That Are Generally Simple [list]... 11. Calling up Quintanilla[/list:u] There must be 50 ways to change your shortstop. Well yeah, his .220/.279/.302 career line fits right in with what Ruben was doing.

Edgy MD May 30 2013 05:57 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Hey, have a Snickerdoodle, Mr. Bitter Sarcasm. You're missing the point tremendously. I in no way claim or imply that he always has performed or is always doomed to perform as such. My faith in my team's players is no less than your'n. I just happen to think of Q-bert as one of those players.

Ceetar May 30 2013 07:42 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Edgy MD wrote: Hey, have a Snickerdoodle, Mr. Bitter Sarcasm. You're missing the point tremendously. I in no way claim or imply that he always has performed or is always doomed to perform as such. My faith in my team's players is no less than your'n. I just happen to think of Q-bert as one of those players. dammit, now I want a snickerdoodle. Bitter Sarcasm is my bit. Hell, i tone it down on the internet. Hopefully he comes up and does well. fine with me, I just worry there's inflated expectation from him based on an extremely small sample when he stepped in in an emergency last year. And that people like that his name starts with Q. Maybe he can give us 15 good days and Tejada with rest will get his act together. You can probably get 15 good days, with luck and timing, from anybody talented enough to be in AAA.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2013 07:46 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Ceetar wrote: Bitter Sarcasm is my bit. Hell, i tone it down on the internet. I thought that your schtick was cockeyed optimism?

Edgy MD May 30 2013 08:00 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Best way to get the most out of your shortstop, I think, is to try another one when one isn't getting it done. Wonderful motivation. And the first one is still available. And the rest of the team knows you're doing what you can to support their efforts. It's not win-win. It's like win-win-win-win-win! Even if you lose!

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 30 2013 09:25 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

DL'ed, Quintanilla on his way.

Benjamin Grimm May 30 2013 12:55 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Nice headline on a New York Times article: First and Short Have That Third-and-Long Feel

Zvon May 30 2013 05:29 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Zvon wrote: He led off with an important single and then thought, YES, they wont send me down now. Then he stuck his head back up his ass. In around the 8th he realized he didn't do enough to save himself and started to worry about how he was gonna break the news to his mom about being demoted. In the 9th he saw his out and will call his mom tomorrow and tell her he didn't get demoted. He got injured. meeeeeh, 65% serious post. BTW, I changed the facts to protect the actual reason Mr T is immature at times. No idea what really goes thru his head. But the end result is the same.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 28 2013 06:55 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Terry says that when Ruben gets healthy, he's going to Las Vegas or Binghamton, and that he's going to have to win his job back from Omar Q.

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 07:05 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Terry says that when Ruben gets healthy, he's going to Las Vegas or Binghamton, and that he's going to have to win his job back from Omar Q. that shouldn't be tough. He can probably do that in a handful of rehab games anyway.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 28 2013 07:13 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Terry no like-o Tejadder.

Frayed Knot Jun 28 2013 07:43 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Terry says that when Ruben gets healthy, he's going to Las Vegas or Binghamton, and that he's going to have to win his job back from Omar Q. that shouldn't be tough. He can probably do that in a handful of rehab games anyway. Given 200 ML ABs Tejada couldn't prove he can out-play what Quintanilla is currently giving the team, what makes you think he can so easily do so in a handful of Binghamton games? Not that either guy is going to the ASG, but Q's .242/.290/.363 over 91 ABs beats Ruben's .209/.267/.262 over 187

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 07:57 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Terry says that when Ruben gets healthy, he's going to Las Vegas or Binghamton, and that he's going to have to win his job back from Omar Q. that shouldn't be tough. He can probably do that in a handful of rehab games anyway. Given 200 ML ABs Tejada couldn't prove he can out-play what Quintanilla is currently giving the team, what makes you think he can so easily do so in a handful of Binghamton games? Not that either guy is going to the ASG, but Q's .242/.290/.363 over 91 ABs beats Ruben's .209/.267/.262 over 187 Because Ruben Tejada is a better baseball player, beyond these small samples, and all the data is in his favor. So does any future prospects for these players as well. Quintanilla is not playing particularly well, so why would you stick with the filler guy when you have the guy that's actually worth something and has potential.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 28 2013 08:04 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

I think a large part of it is that Omar has been playing like he wants to be there (you know Terry likes "energy") and Ruben was, in many ways, going through the motions.

Frayed Knot Jun 28 2013 08:09 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Ceetar wrote: ... so why would you stick with the filler guy when you have the guy that's actually worth something and has potential. Because the fill-in is playing better NOW. Ruben is younger and most likely (hopefully anyway) has a better future but, unless and until Q falters and/or Ruben is tearing it up in Bingo or Vegas, I want to go with the guy making the better contribution at the ML level. That's not the same thing as saying you're betting on him over the next three years, nor will the team lose control of Tejada if he plays the next month or three in either Bingo or Vegas.

Swan Swan H Jun 28 2013 08:10 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think a large part of it is that Omar has been playing like he wants to be there (you know Terry likes "energy") and Ruben was, in many ways, going through the motions. I also think a large part of it is that Tejada was ten minutes from being demoted anyway, and the clock is stuck at that point. Let him go down there and prove that he's as good as he was in 2010 and 2011, if he can.

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 08:14 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: ... so why would you stick with the filler guy when you have the guy that's actually worth something and has potential. Because the fill-in is playing better NOW. . The fill in is playing now, certainly. Better than Tejada was when he got hurt? yes. Better than Tejada would if you called him up instead of sending him to the minors? Doubtful. Let's get a fresh start from Tejada, who knows, maybe the leg was bothering him a little prior to actually hurting it. Give him the time he needs to get his timing down, and then promote him unless there is something obvious. And btw, that .529 by Tejada would be better than what Q has done over the last two weeks. (.517)

Frayed Knot Jun 28 2013 08:19 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

If Tejada wants a fresh start he should be made to show that he's earned a fresh start. That's what Terry (and, by extension, Sandy) is saying and I agree with him/them. If Tejada had played well enough over the first two months of the season this may not be an issue, but he didn't so it is.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 28 2013 08:20 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

If Tejada gets his head out of his ass, he's a much better player than Omar Q. But I don't mind Terry's tough love even a little. Really he and Ike are the 2 biggest reasons we fell 15 games under .500 this year.

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 08:26 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Frayed Knot wrote: If Tejada wants a fresh start he should be made to show that he's earned a fresh start. That's what Terry (and, by extension, Sandy) is saying and I agree with him/them. If Tejada had played well enough over the first two months of the season this may not be an issue, but he didn't so it is. And all I'm saying is that I'm extremely confident that he's going to convince them of that by the time his normal rehab is over. They'll get there and they'll be all "Good job working hard to get back Ruben!" and promote him.

Swan Swan H Jun 28 2013 08:33 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Ceetar wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: If Tejada wants a fresh start he should be made to show that he's earned a fresh start. That's what Terry (and, by extension, Sandy) is saying and I agree with him/them. If Tejada had played well enough over the first two months of the season this may not be an issue, but he didn't so it is. And all I'm saying is that I'm extremely confident that he's going to convince them of that by the time his normal rehab is over. They'll get there and they'll be all "Good job working hard to get back Ruben!" and promote him. You are, but the guy who lived with him for two months isn't.

Vic Sage Jun 28 2013 08:39 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

what exactly has Tejada ever done, minors or majors, to earn the right for the manager to hold his position open for him? In the majors, over 1336 plate appearances (not a small sample size), he's put up a .326/.321 ops/slg line, with an 81 OPS+ to date. His punchless, speedless offense is matched by his sparkless, disinterested defense, which was further marred this season by numerous episodes of baseball stupidity. In the minors, his numbers were slightly better, as you'd expect, but not much. Over 1900 plate appearances, his line went all the way up to .337 / .351. Now he's still young of course, but all that indicates is that one day, if he works hard and stays in shape, he has the opportunity to be older. I don't see an abundance of raw talent here that screams "long-term answer at SS" such that i'd play him over the adequate backup who is making all the plays on defense and is currently having a better season offensively, putting up numbers that, as underwhelming as they are, are still better than Tejada's career numbers to date. If he gets hot and Omar falls off a cliff, then fine. But like Terry said, Ruben has got to earn it. He's done nothing to do that so far in his career.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 28 2013 08:48 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Vic Sage wrote: what exactly has Tejada ever done, minors or majors, to earn the right for the manager to hold his position open for him? In the majors, over 1336 plate appearances (not a small sample size), he's put up a .326/.321 ops/slg line, with an 81 OPS+ to date. His punchless, speedless offense is matched by his sparkless, disinterested defense, which was further marred this season by numerous episodes of baseball stupidity. In the minors, his numbers were slightly better, as you'd expect, but not much. Over 1900 plate appearances, his line went all the way up to .337 / .351. Now he's still young of course, but all that indicates is that one day, if he works hard and stays in shape, he has the opportunity to be older. I don't see an abundance of raw talent here that screams "long-term answer at SS" such that i'd play him over the adequate backup who is making all the plays on defense and is currently having a better season offensively, putting up numbers that, as underwhelming as they are, are still better than Tejada's career numbers to date. If he gets hot and Omar falls off a cliff, then fine. But like Terry said, Ruben has got to earn it. He's done nothing to do that so far in his career. Am in total agreement and was going to post to this effect, but you beat me to it. And saying that Tejada is better than Q is like saying that Charlie Puleo is better than John Pacella. The fuss over Ruben Tejada perplexes me. I mean, he might turn out alright but you read some of his press, and you could think that he might be the next Ozzie Smith, though thankfully, he's not anywhere near as overhyped as Rey O was.

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 09:04 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Vic Sage wrote: In the minors, his numbers were slightly better, as you'd expect, but not much. Over 1900 plate appearances, his line went all the way up to .337 / .351. Now he's still young of course, but all that indicates is that one day, if he works hard and stays in shape, he has the opportunity to be older. In his last full year in the minors, in 2009, in AA, he was the third youngest player in the entire league. The average age was 24.3. He was 19. he would _still_ be young for the league. Age has a whole lot to do with it. [url]http://patrickfloodblog.com/2012/02/01/optimistically-projecting-ruben-tejada/ No one's making him out to be the savior, but the only thing Quintanilla has going for him is that Tejada played poorly all around most of this season before getting hurt. Ruben Tejada's career wOBA would still put him roughly middle of the pack in the majors for shortstops, and if this season was just a blip, what he did the last two seasons would be top 10. It's not that he can be Alex Rodriguez, it's that capable shortstops who won't embarrass you are hard to find. Tejada has done that in the past, in a much larger sample than what has happened so far this year. If Terry thinks penance is the minors is going to snap him out of some funk that an injury and rehab didn't, then that's fine, but the numbers and logic don't merit leaving him down there long.

Vic Sage Jun 28 2013 09:47 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

from Mr. Flood: This is, of course, ignoring all other objective and subjective information about Ruben Tejada. So it’s kind of a silly exercise.

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 10:06 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Vic Sage wrote: from Mr. Flood: This is, of course, ignoring all other objective and subjective information about Ruben Tejada. So it’s kind of a silly exercise. correct. The main point is to emphasize the bits about how freaking young he is and why you don't give up on him.

Frayed Knot Jun 28 2013 10:08 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

But, once again, leaving him in Bingo or Vegas until he gets his shit back together (or until Q falls apart) is NOT the same thing as giving up on him.

Edgy MD Jun 28 2013 10:43 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Certainly. One thing he's done that makes you hope he can re-assert himself is achieve a .360 on-base percentage at the age of 21. You won't find too many shortstops in the history of ever who can claim that. (I be surprised if you found five.) It was only 376 plate appearances, but that's enough to me to suggest that ability was real. Hold his job? No, make him show you something. Make him earn it or Quintanilla lose it. It's a competitive world. But there's a compelling interest for the Mets to be rooting for him.

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 11:31 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Edgy MD wrote: Hold his job? No, make him show you something. Make him earn it or Quintanilla lose it. It's a competitive world. But there's a compelling interest for the Mets to be rooting for him. Quintanilla has already lost it. If the Mets had ANYONE else to play there..

Edgy MD Jun 28 2013 11:34 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Quintanilla has lost the job? I thought he had a nice series. As nice as you can do when you're oh for your last 13.

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 11:40 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Edgy MD wrote: Quintanilla has lost the job? I thought he had a nice series. As nice as you can do when you're oh for your last 13. He's basically doing what he did last year, hot start, and then mostly sinking back to the mean. Last year Tejada showed up before he hit it..this year? This is why I'd rather bring Tejada back BEFORE Q goes into a 11/50 slide. (He's 9/40 since David Wright's players-only meeting after the Cubs loss)

Edgy MD Jun 28 2013 11:41 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

These aren't large sample sizes. He's played convincing (sometimes superlative) big league shortstop, and he's hit like one. That ain't for the shitpile. It'll take more than one shortstop to get the team forward.

Swan Swan H Jun 28 2013 11:45 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Ceetar wrote: Hold his job? No, make him show you something. Make him earn it or Quintanilla lose it. It's a competitive world. But there's a compelling interest for the Mets to be rooting for him. Quintanilla has already lost it. If the Mets had ANYONE else to play there.. From June 26: “He made three plays yesterday that might have saved the game for us,” Collins said. “He’s earned the right to be out there right now.”

Swan Swan H Jun 28 2013 11:48 AM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Quintanilla has lost the job? I thought he had a nice series. As nice as you can do when you're oh for your last 13. He's basically doing what he did last year, hot start, and then mostly sinking back to the mean. Last year Tejada showed up before he hit it..this year? This is why I'd rather bring Tejada back BEFORE Q goes into a 11/50 slide. (He's 9/40 since David Wright's players-only meeting after the Cubs loss) 9/40 is still 16 points higher than Tejada was hitting for the season. In fact, 11/50 is 11 points higher than Tejada is hitting for the season. So, these hideous slumps with which you are damning Quintanilla are just about what yer man Ruben was hitting before he got hurt.

Ceetar Jun 28 2013 12:01 PM Re: 2013 IPP: Ruben Tejada

Swan Swan H wrote: 9/40 is still 16 points higher than Tejada was hitting for the season. In fact, 11/50 is 11 points higher than Tejada is hitting for the season. So, these hideous slumps with which you are damning Quintanilla are just about what yer man Ruben was hitting before he got hurt. He's not my man. I don't even particularly like him as a player. Maybe If Quintanilla was hitting better, the Mets wouldn't have to play such sparkling defense to save the game? It's good that he's did it, but on a team that still so desperately needs offense.. Quintanilla is at what, -.3 WAR? sure, not as bad as Tejada was, but that's the past, not the future. This is moot anyway, as Tejada is NOT ready to come up. He's still what, a week away at best? Has he started the lateral movement stuff he wasn't doing yet? Given all that, Terry Collins comments are even less useful, since we all know the situation will likely change by then. After all, we still haven't decided whether Gee or Hefner goes away when Wheeler comes up.