For whom does the bell toll?

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For whom does the bell toll?

Dillon Gee 13 votes

Matt Harvey 0 votes

Jeremy Hefner 6 votes

Shaun Marcum 1 votes

Jonathan Niese 0 votes

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 08:29 AM

With the expected promotion of their top pitching prospect appearing to be weeks away, the Mets, suddenly, but perhaps not-so-surpsingly, have run into a spurt of mostly successful starting pitching.

Things can change between now and then, certainly. I include all five current rotation members even though the only two real candidates to find themselves pushed aside are those with options --- Gee and Hefner. But I suppose if he starts spitting the bit again, Marcum could get pushed to the pen or get a rehab assignment for a few weeks until a job opens up, after getting diagnosed with an inflamed scabular flugger. Or Niese could be traded in the coming Carlos Gonzalez blockbuster.

Today, by the way, is Zack Wheeler's 23rd birthday.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 30 2013 08:32 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

It's Gee unless or until Marcum goes down with another injury.

MFS62
May 30 2013 08:41 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 30 2013 08:43 AM

Heard an interview recently in which Heffner said he'd be ok with moving to the bullpen to be a "long man", as long as it would help the club. It may be cliche-speak, but he sounded like he meant it.
Also, its been a while since Gee has pitched out of the pen, and I'm not sure if he would be comfortable in that role.

Of course, my opinion is subject to change on a game-by-game basis.

Later

Lefty Specialist
May 30 2013 08:43 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 30 2013 08:44 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

"All right, fellas. Everyone who's shown some semblance of pitching goodness lasting at least one whole start, at some point this year... take the towel out of your mouth."

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 08:50 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Hefner's got the hot hand this morning, but Gee could change all that by tomorrow.

As a righty pitching with a 165-foot fence in right field and prevailing winds blowing out there as a rule, it's a tough assignment.

Ceetar
May 30 2013 08:50 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

I could see Wheeler getting the call June 7th at home against the Marlins before settling into the rotation and facing major league teams.

Everyone should probably get 2 starts by then, maybe 3 for Gee to really iron it out. If Gee rights himself I feel like the Mets are most comfortable with Hefner as a long man than anyone else but I could see them messing around with a 6-man rotation for a bit too.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 30 2013 08:50 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

I don't give rolling doughnut if Gee is "more comfortable" being a starter at least while he's one of the worst starting pitchers in the league. There's mounting evidence his junk is better suited for the bullpen anyhow.

Ceetar
May 30 2013 08:51 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
I don't give rolling doughnut if Gee is "more comfortable" being a starter at least while he's one of the worst starting pitchers in the league. There's mounting evidence his junk is better suited for the bullpen anyhow.

He was good last year. It's about maximizing his and Hefner's value (it's not going to be any of the other three) and if they're more comfortable, that probably swings it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 30 2013 08:54 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
I don't give rolling doughnut if Gee is "more comfortable" being a starter at least while he's one of the worst starting pitchers in the league. There's mounting evidence his junk is better suited for the bullpen anyhow.

First-time-through-the-order vs. third-time-through-the-order, ya mean?

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 08:54 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

You only get one pick, but don't believe there are necessarily only two valid selections. I'm telling you, the Mets are entertaining offers for Jon Niese at this very hour!

Ceetar
May 30 2013 08:56 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Edgy MD wrote:
You only get one pick, but don't believe there are necessarily only two valid selections. I'm telling you, the Mets are entertaining offers for Jon Niese at this very hour!

Johnny for Carlos Gonzalez.

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 08:57 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

No H, but yeah, the Mets are totally working that angle.

Ceetar
May 30 2013 09:03 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Edgy MD wrote:
No H, but yeah, the Mets are totally working that angle.

hmm. Does he favor Jonny over Johnny? that just looks wrong. He's got an H in his name, just later.

hell, I'll just call him Jon Joseph Jingleheimer Niese. (I know that's not right either. whatever)

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 30 2013 09:14 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Ceetar wrote:
John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
I don't give rolling doughnut if Gee is "more comfortable" being a starter at least while he's one of the worst starting pitchers in the league. There's mounting evidence his junk is better suited for the bullpen anyhow.

He was good last year. It's about maximizing his and Hefner's value (it's not going to be any of the other three) and if they're more comfortable, that probably swings it.

It is not and it does not. It's about giving the team its best chance to win. Gee's success last year means dick when we're 2 months into the season and he's had maybe 1 and a half good outings. If Hefner were as bad as Gee this year it'd be a more difficult decision but that's objectively not the case.

Benjamin Grimm
May 30 2013 09:21 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

I voted Hefner, because I'm trying to predict what I think will happen. But if it was my decision, I'd go with Gee.

Fman99
May 30 2013 09:35 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Should be Gee. Will end up being Hefner, at least at first.

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 09:45 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Gee's making a comeback. Initially, eight of the first nine voters said Gee was on his way out. But latecomers and subsequent re-votes have swung this the other way, and now only six are voting G-spot off the island, while five are in favor of keeping Hef in the mansion.

seawolf17
May 30 2013 09:47 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Fman99 wrote:
Should be Gee. Will end up being Hefner, at least at first.

This.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 30 2013 10:32 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Fman99 wrote:
Should be Gee. Will end up being Hefner, at least at first.

What other than some nebulous "comfort" argument could we have for this? If it were a matter of degrees of difference in suck it would be one thing but Gee is an an entirely different level. The league is OPSing .900 against him. That's not the kind of guy whose comfort ought to be considered when ejected from the rotation. I mean, only if he twirls an absolute gem and demonstrates an ability to make a sustainable improvement in his next few starts does he even stand a chance from where I'm sitting.

A Boy Named Seo
May 30 2013 10:33 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

I think it'll be Hefner, too, and that's probably the right call. Gee was a perfectly adequate back-of-the-ro guy last year and he's not light years away from that again. His fly balls are up 4% from (and so, too, went the HR's), his groundballs are down the same 4%, and the league's hitting .365 against him. If he can start getting a few more ground balls, he should start sucking a little less and be fine at the back w/ Marcum.

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 10:35 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Thank you for using the word "twirl" to describe the craft of pitching. Damon Runyon did not die in vain.

A Boy Named Seo
May 30 2013 10:36 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Let me say Gee offers me zero comfort, nebulous or otherwise. I just think he's probably slightly the better pitcher, but hasn't done it yet this year. That said, i think he could be perfectly mediocre again without notice.

batmagadanleadoff
May 30 2013 12:14 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

To me, this year's pitching staff is Matt Harvey and the seven dwarfs. After Harvelous, they're all mediocrities who might surprise me once a month with a quality start. So who goes down? I couldn't care less.

Ceetar
May 30 2013 12:14 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Fman99 wrote:
Should be Gee. Will end up being Hefner, at least at first.

What other than some nebulous "comfort" argument could we have for this? If it were a matter of degrees of difference in suck it would be one thing but Gee is an an entirely different level. The league is OPSing .900 against him. That's not the kind of guy whose comfort ought to be considered when ejected from the rotation. I mean, only if he twirls an absolute gem and demonstrates an ability to make a sustainable improvement in his next few starts does he even stand a chance from where I'm sitting.

Maybe it's the .69 difference in their career ERAs. a 4.39 ERA over 350 innings is a pretty good 5th starter for sure, and an indication of some ability at least. Yes, Gee has to get it together, but he's probably got 2-3 starts to do so still.

Gee's velocity was nearly 2 mph down early on, but there are indications he's regained it, and presumably that speaks to arm strength (I'm by no means an expert on this stuff) but his best year was last year with his highest velocity, and if he's got the velocity back and built back up after the 9 month layoff, well, I have hope he can shake off the bad start.

Collin McHugh is almost definitely going to be the guy that actually gets demoted, and there IS a difference in preparation in the bullpen, and while I'm not saying it's a huge thing, Hefner has done it before and at least initially it seems simplest to let him do it again.

A Boy Named Seo
May 30 2013 12:17 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

The difference is the merkin. Gee needs to glue that horrible thing back on his face and watch his ERA drop drop drop....

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 30 2013 12:32 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Career, schmareer. If Gee excels in a relief role, or there's an injyry, or Hef starts to suck also, he can always come back to the rotation.

Doesn't anyone here want to help this team win? Gee ain't doing it.

A Boy Named Seo
May 30 2013 12:50 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Hef 6.63 K/9, 3.16 BB/9, 1.58 HR/9, .268 BABIP, 5.08 FIP
Gee 6.70 K/9, 3.08 BB/9, 1.45 HR/9, .365 BABIP, 4.93 FIP

Heads Heffner, tails Gee.

Tails.

Vic Sage
May 30 2013 12:51 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Q: Hefner or Gee?
A: McHugh.

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 12:54 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Well, McMaybe, but McHugh isn't in the McRotation.

I imagine there's a good chance that McHugh goes down, if he's still here at all by the time Wheeler gets a call, but we're inquiring about who loses his staring slot.

Benjamin Grimm
May 30 2013 12:56 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

I think Vic is saying that Gee and Hefner should lose their spots to Wheeler and McHugh.

(I find that I can't type about McHugh and Gee in the same sentence without wanting to type "McGee".)

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 01:08 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Well, that eluded me. Makes some sense

TheOldMole
May 30 2013 01:21 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Marcum traded.

A Boy Named Seo
May 30 2013 01:26 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Go on.

Swan Swan H
May 30 2013 02:06 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Rubin tweets:

Collin McHugh replacing Jon Niese in the rotation Saturday in Miami. No word why yet.

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 02:11 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Wow. Mole's lips to God's ears...

Swan Swan H
May 30 2013 02:14 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

A shoulder issue for Niese, apparently.

Benjamin Grimm
May 30 2013 02:17 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

News keeps getting worse and worse, doesn't it?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 30 2013 02:19 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

I'm almost relieved to know he's injured vs. just sucking for no reason.

I mean, it's bad.

Ceetar
May 30 2013 02:22 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

you see what happens when you discuss the 'too many starters' problem? DO YOU SEE?

You should've learned in Spring Training with Santana.

Edgy MD
May 30 2013 02:24 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

It's the scab I won't stop picking at.

batmagadanleadoff
May 30 2013 03:12 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Swan Swan H wrote:
A shoulder issue for Niese, apparently.

How will the Mets pennant contend now?

Zvon
May 30 2013 03:21 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Ceetar wrote:
DO YOU SEE?

DO YOU SEEEE!

Swan Swan H
May 30 2013 03:24 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Swan Swan H wrote:
A shoulder issue for Niese, apparently.

How will the Mets pennant contend now?

Yup. That's it. The nail in the coffin. The last straw, the final blow. Time for me to be a miserable defeatist. You were right all along! How stupid of me to miss that.

These guys suck. They all suck. Fuck the Wilpons, Alderson, Collins, all the coaches who I don't feel like naming individually, and every one of the players. Every one. I am now a disciple of the Church of Batmags. Praise no one.

batmagadanleadoff
May 30 2013 03:39 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Swan Swan H wrote:

These guys suck. They all suck. Fuck the Wilpons, Alderson, Collins, all the coaches who I don't feel like naming individually, and every one of the players. Every one. I am now a disciple of the Church of Batmags. Praise no one.

Now you've gone too far. There's probably six, maybe even seven or eight players on this year's squad that are at least OK.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 30 2013 04:13 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Awright, joker. Who the hell is you, and what is you done with the real batmagadanleadoff?

Swan Swan H
May 30 2013 04:50 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Swan Swan H wrote:

These guys suck. They all suck. Fuck the Wilpons, Alderson, Collins, all the coaches who I don't feel like naming individually, and every one of the players. Every one. I am now a disciple of the Church of Batmags. Praise no one.

Now you've gone too far. There's probably six, maybe even seven or eight players on this year's squad that are at least OK.

Name them.

batmagadanleadoff
May 30 2013 06:15 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Swan Swan H wrote:
Swan Swan H wrote:

These guys suck. They all suck. Fuck the Wilpons, Alderson, Collins, all the coaches who I don't feel like naming individually, and every one of the players. Every one. I am now a disciple of the Church of Batmags. Praise no one.

Now you've gone too far. There's probably six, maybe even seven or eight players on this year's squad that are at least OK.

Name them.

I can't. I just made up that number to placate you. Let's see. Turner's OK as a utility guy. Baxter's OK as a 4th outfielder. Harvey's harvelous. Wright is right. What do I got? Four? Parnell makes five. I like Duda, bad glove and all. Buck's got 11 homers. That's pretty good for a catcher, even though his peripherals are Kingmanesque. Buck's a catcher, though. So that's six. Not quite Bench, Rose, Morgan, Foster, Griffey and Seaver. Or even Gilkey, Hundley, Olerud, Reed, Clark and anybody else. But that's six.

Who's side are you on?

Swan Swan H
May 30 2013 06:54 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

I think you're conflating placating and patronizing, but no matter. I'll take your six and add Murphy, and bump Duda up a bit if they finally give him the big mitt and let him play first base. I'm not down on Niese.

batmagadanleadoff
May 30 2013 06:59 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Swan Swan H wrote:
I think you're conflating placating and patronizing, but no matter. I'll take your six and add Murphy, and bump Duda up a bit if they finally give him the big mitt and let him play first base. I'm not down on Niese.

Jeez. I left out Murph. I didn't mean to. I love the Murph. That makes seven.

Swan Swan H
May 30 2013 07:02 PM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

See what happens when you focus on the negative? You see the weeds and not the flowers.

Vic Sage
May 31 2013 08:19 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
I think Vic is saying that Gee and Hefner should lose their spots to Wheeler and McHugh.

(I find that I can't type about McHugh and Gee in the same sentence without wanting to type "McGee".)

actually, what i was saying was that the debate seemed to be about whether Hefner or Gee would go down to make room for Wheeler, but i thought it would be neither. I figured one of them would go to the pen, and McHugh would go back to Vegas.

Eddie: When you're making out, which do you prefer, Sinatra or Mathis?
Boogie: I like Presley.

My only preference as to who stays in the rotation (as opposed to staying on the roster) is that Hefner had experience coming out of the pen and Gee didn't, so it would probably make most sense for Wheeler to take Hefner's slot in the rotation, while Hef takes McHugh's spot in the pen.

Of course, now with Niese's injury, it's all moot.

Ceetar
May 31 2013 10:50 AM
Re: For whom does the bell toll?

Vic Sage wrote:

Of course, now with Niese's injury, it's all moot.

Maybe. Maybe not.