Master Index of Archived Threads
Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby
Edgy MD Jun 10 2013 09:33 PM |
Just trying to isolate the central location of our woes here.
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Fman99 Jun 11 2013 04:24 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Wow, half our hitters in the bottom 3 across the league, on average. That sucks.
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Benjamin Grimm Jun 11 2013 04:47 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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I have to say, this surprises me. It surprises me that the Mets rank fourth in left field, and that those poor numbers are good enough to rank fourth. I still don't think Duda is part of the solution (although I know that he can end up proving me wrong) but I'll concede that the Mets can possibly be contenders if they make him the third best starting outfielder on the team. In other words, he's far from the biggest part of the problem.
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smg58 Jun 11 2013 05:13 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
I wouldn't call an .811 OPS poor. Not difference-making, especially when defense is factored in, but not poor.
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Edgy MD Jun 11 2013 05:15 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
I don't think those numbers are particularly poor either. The batting average may disquiet one's nights but it's him doing what he can with what he's given. Drop Lucas Duda 2013 into a good lineup and he's looking a lot scarier.
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Frayed Knot Jun 11 2013 06:28 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Unfortunately, Ruben's sad descent into pop-up-aholism keeps him far away from the 'unlucky' category as far as his hitting goes. Maybe there was some ill fate back in April but, since about May 1 or so, one can tell the second the ball comes off the bat in most cases that there's no chance of that swat becoming a hit.
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duan Jun 11 2013 07:02 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
by the way, without looking at anything I'm going in that pop quiz of yours with ... MIAMI MARLINS
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Edgy MD Jun 11 2013 07:18 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Not Miami. Good guess, though. Miami is one notch ahead of the Mets, OPSing at a pitcherly .531 at the first base position.
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Ceetar Jun 11 2013 07:21 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Philly? I can think of a lot of bad AL first baseman too.
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Edgy MD Jun 11 2013 07:32 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Phllly is rocking it at 10th, with a defensible .743 1BOPS. Ryan Howard is searching for himself at .251 / .295 / .435 // .730, and facing LOOGys in the seventh inning day after day. But backup Kevin Frandsen has cranked it in 20 plate appearances, at .294 / .400 / .588 // .988. Not bad at all for a bench player who also plays second and third.
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Frayed Knot Jun 11 2013 07:35 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Dodgers
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Edgy MD Jun 11 2013 07:40 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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LA may stink, but they've ranked a Dudariffic fourth in offensitude from Station One. Sunset has come to the James Loney era and the return of Adrian Gonzalez to Southern Cal has brought with him a rather Gonzalez-lik .311 / .372 / .481 // .853 slash line. Only 26 plate appearances have gone to anybody else, but they've been hitting too.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 11 2013 07:51 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Warshington
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Centerfield Jun 11 2013 07:52 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
This is a great thread. And it really sums up our problems. It is really hard to win when half your lineup is comprised of the worst players in the league. And one of those guys was supposed to be the cleanup hitter. Wow.
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Centerfield Jun 11 2013 08:07 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
And when you look at this, it's hard to fathom how Alderson gets a free pass. Sure, there has been no money to play with, but the whole Oakland philosophy is that you can rebuild without money. It's been three years. That's enough time to make a difference. Especially in the minor leagues. So far, here's what's happened:
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Edgy MD Jun 11 2013 08:11 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Alderson hasn't gotten a free pass. But as has been noted in another thread, he's in his role as a turnaround specialist. He was brought in to blow the team up, many advocated for the team to be blown up, circumstances demanded that it get blown up, and this is what blown up too often looks like.
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Ceetar Jun 11 2013 08:21 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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It's funny how people interpret things. I'm reading the Sandy interview transcript from yesterday now, and it feels very 'do or die' for Valdespin, not "Let's see what he can do" but "Let's see if there is anything he can do"
On Flores not being promoted.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 11 2013 11:37 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
The Astros blew it up. The Marlins-- somewhat misguidedly, but spectacularly-- blew it up. I think that part of the problem is that Alderson hasn't blown it up-- outside of Beltran, he's just sort of let it fall apart, occasionally prying some of the looser boards off (Bay, e.g.) by hand. It's tough to rebuild fully when you can't clear the site.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 11 2013 11:54 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
I don't buy that. He's screwed like we all are by guys who were to be part of the solution becoming part of the problem. Maybe he could have forseen that? I dunno. Obviously trading Ike woulda been a good idea. But it's not as though anyone from the old days but Santana and Bay are clogging us and Omar assured they'd be the kinda guys you couldn't collect on anyhow.
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Fman99 Jun 12 2013 04:40 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Milwaukee maybe? I can't think of who they're trotting out there every day while waiting for Corey Hart to come back from injury...
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Edgy MD Jun 12 2013 05:51 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
I don't know, but if cutting payroll by something like 35%, trading a highly paid outfielder for a pitching prospect, trading a Cy Young winner for a package of prospects, letting the All-Star yearbook cover shortstop walk, avoiding anything more than short-term commitments in the free-agent market, and picking high school position players #1 three years in a row aren't indications of a remake, I don't know what is. The only things running counter to that scenario is (1) they haven't formally announced a rebuild, and (2) they re-signed David Wright.
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Vic Sage Jun 12 2013 08:39 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
But the Wright signing (as much as i liked it) is exactly why this is NOT a complete "blow up" situation, and a half-assed rebuild, in a typically Metsian fashion. If it was about rebuilding, they would have picked up David's 1-year option in the off-season, then traded him for the best package of prospects they could extract.
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Edgy MD Jun 12 2013 08:47 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Well, I think you're wavering between "they're not really re-building" and "they're rebuilding for the wrong reasons," but I think I stated clearly that circumstances have forced their hand.
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Benjamin Grimm Jun 12 2013 09:00 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Remember, Dickey was signed for 2013 and at a fairly cheap rate. Trading him seemed to me to be more about "selling high" and restocking the farm system. It would have been easier (especially from a P.R. standpoint) to hang on to him.
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Edgy MD Jun 12 2013 09:05 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
As noted above, his contract was almost designed to be untradable on the back end and it was and is. Omar went for broke and broke is what they got.
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Ceetar Jun 12 2013 09:09 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Disagree. Everything was caused by losing. (The financial stuff compounded it, but if they'd been winning you'd barely have noticed) Alderson is making decisions, financially sound ones, that convert the short term high value pieces into sustained value, because that's what you do when you're getting poor return on current value. (from a wins=money standpoint) The current value of most of those trades was little, because he knew they weren't pushing the Mets past the ~85 win (pick your own number, but the 'really competitive' line) mark. Most of the baseball value of Reyes, Dickey contracts were at the front end when it wasn't worth as much to the Mets. (You could argue the same about Wright I imagine, but people often feel speedy players provide less value later, whereas Wright was already better and likely can still provide value near the end, especially since we'll probably have the DH in the NL by then) Those are risk the Mets take if you can get the value from them early, but they aren't risks you can take proactively. But now, specifically next year, there looks to be a lot of high value baseball players with little investment. Harvey, probably Wheeler and d'Arnaud. Niese. Perhaps some of the others, like Tejada if he gets back to it. So now the influx of additional value, even at a higher price, augments the value you already have and keeps you from wasting it before it gets expensive. Even if you overpay for it. This is really where it gets interesting, and telling, about what Alderson is thinking long term. They probably weren't getting anything for Reyes fresh off the DL either. at least, not anything worth giving up the chance that they could negotiate a fitting contract for him themselves.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 12 2013 09:13 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 12 2013 09:28 AM |
It's a half assed rebuild, and you only need to look to the Wright Wresigning to see this. eff n Jeff simply didn't have the stomach to weather the shitstorm that would've unfolded when Wright ended up in another team's uniform. The rebuild's also half assed and compromised because the Mets are desperate for revenues and thus, want it both ways. They want to rebuild, yet still pack 'em in like a contending team would. Jeffrey Loria is a scumbag, but a shrewd scumbag, with more baseball sense than our owners. Could you imagine how competitive the Marlins would be if they had just half of the resources that come with having your team located in NYC? The Marlins have more WS crowns during their life than the Mets have first place finishes, and that team runs laps around the Mets when it comes to drafting and developing young talent. I'm not sure what Ike's regression has to do with this? What? Is Ike all of a sudden supposed to be Lou Gehrig? I mean, where the hell are the Mets supposed to be with an acceptable 2013 from Ike?
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Benjamin Grimm Jun 12 2013 09:16 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Better positioned for 2014, if nothing else.
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Edgy MD Jun 12 2013 09:24 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
So it's not really rebuilding, rebuilding for the wrong reasons, and doing a terrible job at rebuilding.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 12 2013 09:47 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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The way the Mets handled Reyes contract status during his last season as a Met is still baffling, even now - a year and a half after the fact. In the end, it became clear that the Mets never had a chance to resign Reyes, given their financial constraints. So the only logical explanation for the Mets behavior is that they didn't have the stomach to weather the negative fan reaction that they anticipated would develop after trading Reyes. So they tried instead, to contrive a scenario that was supposed to make it appear that Reyes spurned the Mets offer. It was all so wishy-washy, and typical of this ownership. So they got nothing for one of baseball's most popular players at perhaps, the peak of his career, and didn't save face either. The strategy was ineffective at every measure and almost unanimously criticized.
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bmfc1 Jun 12 2013 10:08 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Well said batmagadanleadoff.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 12 2013 10:13 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Thanks. It's just standard operating procedure at Flushing. They couldn't trade Dickey gracefully, either. RA wanted half of what he could've gotten on the FA market, but that wasn't good enough for eff n jeff. They had to smear him on the way out.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 12 2013 11:20 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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The money quote: the torture the Mets regularly provide is a feature, not a bug
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/50407266/
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Vic Sage Jun 12 2013 11:27 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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well you can think that, but its not what i said. I said it's a half-assed rebuild being forced on them by their economic problems... problems, by the way (contrary to Ceetar's assertion), that may have been exacerbated by losing but weren't caused by it. We could have played over .500 ball the last few seasons, even been competitive for post-season play, and the Madoff money problems would still have broken this team down, just as most observers anticipated.
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Edgy MD Jun 12 2013 11:31 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
I can think what?
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Vic Sage Jun 12 2013 11:45 AM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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ok, Tejada is not one of top 3 hitting prospects and never was, and Duda hasn't fallen off the face of the earth. He's close to whatever reasonable projections might have been for him. Yes, Davis has been a disaster, but he was the first half of last year, too. That we talked ourselves into the fact that it was just a 1-time thing isn't Davis's fault... it's ours. And that we have no reasonable alternative for the position reflects on a lack of organizational depth, not some mystical force of doom which covers the franchise like a shroud.
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batmagadanleadoff Jun 12 2013 12:45 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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Connecting the dots ....
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/50407266/ |
Tuesday in New York by Jason Fry on 12 June 2013 12:48 am Tuesday night in New York was lovely, cool and not too humid. A few passing thunderstorms growled overhead, offering a spritz of rain before departing and leaving luminous orange and pink clouds in their wake. I spent the evening at the game and had a marvelous time. A friend who couldn’t be there was kind enough to pass along very good seats not far behind third base. Another friend and I spent a thoroughly grand three hours talking about baseball and kids and writing and the weird uniform of the mildly demented Mets fan across the aisle and other things besides. The young woman who sang the national anthem looked nervous but did a bang-up job. The security folks went about their business calmly and efficiently. The blue-uniformed woman providing in-seat food service was pleasant and speedy. The beer was cold and there was plenty of it. Our seatmates were at least 40% Cardinals fans, and they made more than 70% of the noise, but they were pleasant folk, as Cardinals fans tend to be. A little boy behind us practiced his Mets rooting at earsplitting volume, but all around smiled and encouraged him, as that’s exactly what lungs are for at the ballpark. The bathroom lines were short. The automatic towel dispensers worked without a bunch of kabuki gesturing. We left the park and the Super Express bore us speedily back to Brooklyn. The baseball? I looked up from our conversation now and then and saw a Met heaving a ball over a teammate’s head, or craning his neck to spy a departing home run, or dropping a fly ball, or throwing ball four with the bases loaded. Whatever one of the teams on the field was doing seemed pretty incompetent, but I didn’t let it bother me — and the scattering of Mets rooters in the stands didn’t make much protest either, opting for shrugs of indifference. Which was a good choice: Why waste a nice evening dwelling on things nobody seems able to change? |
Ashie62 Jun 12 2013 12:45 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Serenity now...
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metirish Jun 12 2013 01:01 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
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I agree, I am so disgusted with the team. I was going to start a thread about Alderson, but there is no need, it's all in here. I think he is full of shit, a great salesman of rubbish but i am willing to give his plan another year.
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Edgy MD Jun 12 2013 01:03 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
That's an hilarious post.
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metirish Jun 12 2013 01:05 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Thanks, I think....
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Edgy MD Jun 12 2013 01:08 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
My girlfriend is a cheating, lying, hooker. I'm through. I can't stand her face.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 12 2013 01:13 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
I don;t know why anyone would hang around with a smug Cardinals fan who thinks he knows what it's like to be a Met fan.
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Edgy MD Jun 12 2013 01:16 PM Re: Tell Me Where It Hurts, Baby |
Yeah, it needs be said. The Mets being good or bad doesn't make Leitch a cock or not a cock. That's on him.
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