Master Index of Archived Threads
eff Wilpon: Indian Giver
batmagadanleadoff Jul 09 2013 08:04 PM |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/sport ... wanted=all
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Edgy MD Jul 09 2013 08:11 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
This is going to totally throw a shadow over Cougar Night.
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Ceetar Jul 09 2013 08:13 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
classic over politically-correctedness. It actually seems similar to the Cougar thing, in that a peon in the organization plans this great idea and the corporate suits finally find out what's going on and get all political on it. screw 'em.
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d'Kong76 Jul 09 2013 08:36 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
I dunno, probably an event best scheduled against the
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 09 2013 08:47 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
The Braves game was-- or became-- part of the point, at least from the group's view.
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d'Kong76 Jul 09 2013 09:06 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
Not to get a big thing going, but I don't particularly like having
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metsmarathon Jul 09 2013 09:10 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
the mets were in a no-win situation on this.
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metsmarathon Jul 09 2013 09:10 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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i'd be utterly shocked if those were NOT the names of teams participating in adult kickball leagues.
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Nymr83 Jul 09 2013 10:21 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Sign me up for the "Hoboken Heebs" t-shirt please! will they wear matching yamulkas instead of hats? Mets really dropped the ball here... the plan was a good one and WHO GIVES A FUCK if the whole thing offended the Braves organization? I'd call that an added bonus.
Someone tell Wilpon he had better cancel Taiwan Day before he offends the communists!
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Lefty Specialist Jul 10 2013 06:21 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
The key here is that somebody needs to do their homework before the ball starts rolling. I mean, come on, you don't do this when you're playing the Braves. How hard is that to figure out?
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metirish Jul 10 2013 06:33 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
No worries, the Mets have a crack PR guy to handle it......
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Ceetar Jul 10 2013 07:19 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Yeah, this is where the failure is. It's really on the ticket grunt that didn't think it through. Or the process that doesn't have these things double-checked by authorities earlier. But I'd still rather the Mets err on the side of "Respecting our commitments and honoring these folks is more important than avoiding political fallout for the Braves insensitive logo." I mean, it sucks that they scheduled a whole week around it and now it can't happen (that week), but these things do happen. It's not the Mets fault, nor did they likely really even know, that there was all sorts of outside events happening in conjunction.
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soupcan Jul 10 2013 07:38 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
You know though, the Mets did offer alternate dates.
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G-Fafif Jul 10 2013 07:48 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
After realizing shining a spotlight on the concerns of Native Americans might cause some discomfort to the Braves, the Mets are also postponing next weekend's Scholars Day so as not to offend those fans coming up from Philadelphia to see their favorite team.
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Edgy MD Jul 10 2013 07:49 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
I think we can safely assume that the team has tried and will try to have a makegood.
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Ashie62 Jul 10 2013 08:09 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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BOC
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bmfc1 Jul 10 2013 08:09 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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BAZINGA!
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Edgy MD Jul 10 2013 08:16 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
You know, the French trappers and settlers called the Eriechronon group of Native Americans the Nation du Chat, or Catpeople.
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 08:26 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
"What are you blaming me for? I was just following orders".
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soupcan Jul 10 2013 08:28 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
I'm not a big fan of singular names for teams like 'The Heat' or 'The Liberty', but The Atlanta Braves could just rename themselves 'The Atlanta Brave' and be done with it.
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 08:39 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
"Please accept these blankets as a measure of our deepest apologies".
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bmfc1 Jul 10 2013 08:45 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
I agree with the title of this thread: F Wilpon!
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Edgy MD Jul 10 2013 08:53 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
So, you would have been supportive of Fred Wilpon and the Mets had it gone forward, even if a PR nightmare ensued?
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 09:03 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
"What? I'm supposed to keep track of the schedule, too? Do you
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Centerfield Jul 10 2013 09:07 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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I have to disagree with you. Any time you set up something like this, you have to anticipate that emotions are going to run strong. It boggles my mind that no one would think that the Braves and American Indian Heritage night might be a bad mix. Or that no one would bother to check. It is the type of thing that leads to people being fired, and if the Mets are incompetent enough to let this happen, they should get their just criticism. They also butchered the situation by trying to curtail the festivities, instead of just immediately proposing the alternative dates. This is just a cop out instead of admitting their mistake about scheduling this against the Braves. To be fair, the A.I.C.H. is acting like a bunch of spoiled brats. If the cultural message is that important, it can be delivered in August just as well as July. And I'm sure there are logistics to be worked out, but if they wanted to do it, it could be done.
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seawolf17 Jul 10 2013 09:22 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
Fuck, Mets. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. They did the best they could here, I think. Someone should have caught that conflict earlier, but they didn't, so they were stuck. If they went ahead with Native American dancing outside a Mets/Braves game, somebody would have given them shit -- the fans, the press, someone in the Braves org for making them look bad, or all of the above. They caught it, offered a reasonable change for another date. I think that's all you can do at this point.
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Swan Swan H Jul 10 2013 09:28 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Agreed. I don't think it was the dancing or music that was an issue. Here's the quote that, if I were the Mets, would have caused the most concern: As for the game, the A.I.C.H. began to promote it in early April. In an e-mail to the Indian Country Today Media Network, the group pitched the event as “a great opportunity to educate the public about the stereotypes professional sports teams continue to promote through logos, mascots and fan traditions, such as the ‘tomahawk chop.’ ” But if Mets officials harbored concerns with that type of language over the coming months, they chose not to express them publicly. Would they express this publicly? Would you? Wouldn't you try to handle it one-to-one?
Amen. Some more than others.
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 09:33 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
"Fuck the fan base is right! If they think they're more patriotic
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Swan Swan H Jul 10 2013 09:33 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
Is it cool and damp under your bridge?
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 09:37 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
Which bridge? I don't own a real bridge at the moment,
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Ceetar Jul 10 2013 09:40 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Did that email go to the Mets? Probably not. Did they even see it? Would they? I mean,if you buy group tickets and email blast your group, the Mets don't QC that email. So perhaps it wasn't an issue, even with the Braves, at first, but once they realized it was going to be a bigger endeavor..
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Swan Swan H Jul 10 2013 09:41 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Exactly.
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Frayed Knot Jul 10 2013 09:59 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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And the Redskins could simply keep their name while changing the logo to a potato and suddenly the word 'redskin' takes on a new and non-insulting meaning.
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Edgy MD Jul 10 2013 10:05 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
Or adopting Teddy Ruspin's image as a logo.
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 10:26 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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I always liked this idea. I hated when St. John's University changed their nickname to the Red Storm. I thought they ought to have just ditched the mascot and associated Indian imagery and reinvented their legend so that Redmen would stand for athletes wearing red. But what would the new Redskins helmet logo be? A potato? I guess they could keep the old R helmet from the early '70's, but without the feathers.
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Edgy MD Jul 10 2013 10:31 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Wasn't that more-or-less the original connotation? I wanted SJU to officialize their unofficial nickname of the Johnnies. That would have been lo-frills awesome.
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 10:33 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Could be. I'm not sure. But I thought a Redman, as used by SJU, was an Indian with a red face, either painted, or supposedly from natural complexion.
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Edgy MD Jul 10 2013 10:38 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 10:42 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Sounds like the meaning of Redmen got muddled over the years, starting out representing SJU's sports uniforms, reinterpreted by the fan base to symbolize Indians, with the University then encouraging the Indian interpretation.
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Nymr83 Jul 10 2013 10:42 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Thunderbird?? so they basically managed to slip a little Native American stereotyping in there anyway?
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Mets – Willets Point Jul 10 2013 10:45 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
My Dad was an SJU alum. I have a vague memory of watching a basketball game on tv and there being "Indians" beating hand drums and chanting to rally the crowd.
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seawolf17 Jul 10 2013 11:47 AM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
I voted for Johnny Lunchbucket.
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d'Kong76 Jul 10 2013 12:05 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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Pretty damn funny!
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Ashie62 Jul 10 2013 01:13 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
As I am convinced Citifield was built on an Indian burial ground, I welcome their world and ways at Citi on a daily basis...
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soupcan Jul 10 2013 02:12 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
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I don't know, would they think to check if on Jewish Heritage night that the opponent was the aforementioned Hoboken Heebs? It's just not something that immediately comes to mind. 'Which MLB team offends which ethnic group?' Who thinks that? If in fact it turned out that the Dodgers were that night's opponent and nobody bothered to check, it wouldn't be an issue that nobody bothered to check. It was just dumb luck that it turned out to be The Braves. Do we know that they tried to curtail the festivities before offering the alternate dates? I was thinking that all options were laid out at the same time and if not what's the big deal? 'You're not happy with our offer of curtailing the festivities? Okay, then we can offer you another couple of dates to choose from...' What's so horrible about that? They made a mistake and tried to rectify it. The A.I.C.H. decided to stick it up their asses. Fine, whatever.
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batmagadanleadoff Jul 10 2013 02:35 PM Re: eff Wilpon: Indian Giver |
Dad, Chief Noc-A-Homa called. He wants tickets for the Braves series. I put him behind
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