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Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Vic Sage Jul 02 2013 02:32 PM

Now that the draft is over and deals are starting to turn over the roster, it's time for this year's "Knicks sucks" thread. [u:3ojqq12f]Current Roster:[/u:3ojqq12f] Carmelo Anthony SF 29 6-8 230 Andrea Bargnani PF 27 7-0 256 Tyson Chandler C 30 7-1 240 Raymond Felton PG 29 6-1 205 Tim Hardaway Jr. SG 21 6-6 205 Iman Shumpert SF 23 6-5 220 A. Stoudemire PF 30 6-11 245 [u:3ojqq12f]Traded/released:[/u:3ojqq12f] Marcus Camby C 39 6-11 240 Steve Novak SF 30 6-10 235 Q. Richardson SF 33 6-6 228 James White SG 30 6-7 215 [u:3ojqq12f]Free Agents:[/u:3ojqq12f] J.R. Smith SG 27 6-6 220 Pablo Prigioni PG 36 6-3 185 Chris Copeland SF 29 6-8 225 Kenyon Martin PF 35 6-9 240 Earl Barron C 31 7-0 250 They're still making noises about re-signing Smith, Copeland and Prigioni, but they might not sign any of them. Martin was very valuable, but they are talking to Elton Brand now, and i doubt they'll sign both of them (though they should). Smith and Copeland will probably go wherever they get the best deal, and that may not be the capped out Knicks. Prigs might re-sign if he doesn't go back to Spain. They've also expressed some interest in SFs Matt Barnes and Francisco Garcia, in case Smith doesn't re-sign, and guards Devin Harris and Will Bynum. Other players its been rumored they have an interest in include: Tony Allen, Aaron Brooks, Carlos Delfino, Monta Ellis, Jose Calderon, Brandan Wright, and Sebastian Telfair. i hate the Bargnani trade, if anybody cares. I don't care about losing Novak and Camby (much less Q-Rich), but with all the draft picks we've given up in recent deals, we have nearly no draft picks over the next 4 years. And for capped-out teams, the draft is virtually the only way to restock your roster. And why did we put ourselves in this position? to get a one-dimensional player -- a big man who can't rebound, defend, or pass but was a passable if inconsistent scorer a few years ago -- and whose one dimension (shooting) has been diminished by injuries and a continuous presence on the DL. they gave up a 1st and 2 2nd rounders for a guy the Raptors were on the verge of releasing because he was useless and virulently despised by the fanbase. Only in NY, boys and girls. Only in NY.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 02 2013 05:07 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

The handful of Raptor afficionados I know didn't even gloat about the trade-- they just kind of wished me well.

Elster88 Jul 02 2013 06:16 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I completely forgot that Q-Rich was on the team. Did he play last year?

cooby Jul 02 2013 08:15 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Howdy, Elster!

Vic Sage Jul 02 2013 09:59 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Elster88 wrote: I completely forgot that Q-Rich was on the team. Did he play last year? They picked him and Earl Barron up near the end of the season. They both got in a few games, i think, but if you bliinked, you missed them.

Vic Sage Jul 03 2013 12:28 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

It's reported that they've offered Prigioni a 2-year deal. Meanwhile, JR is considering the Bucks. Then there is the Summer League roster -- Shumpert and Hardaway, plus undrafted FAs: CJ Leslie (F) - undersized but athletic power forward: highly regarded but surprisingly went undrafted, has skills to play the 3. May well make Knicks roster; AJ Matthews (C) - 7-1 center from Brooklyn. Athletic, but a project; 2 top D-Leaguers from last year: Tony Mitchell (F) - "a do-it-all athletic small forward in transition and half-court sets, averaged 21.9 points, 6.4 rebounds, 2.7 assists and 1.4 steals" Toure Murry (PG) - "excels at leading breakaways and his first step to make plays for himself and others, averaged 9.0 points, 3.0 assists and 1.8 steals." and retreads: Chris Smith (PG) - JR's brother; Jerome Jordan (C) - He keeps showing up; Henry Sims (C) - D-Leaguer who played for Knicks summer team last year (invited, not signed); and Tony Taylor (PG) - Dleaguer could get an invite.

Elster88 Jul 03 2013 03:31 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

cooby wrote: Howdy, Elster! Cooby! How have you been doing?

Vic Sage Jul 04 2013 07:33 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

latest reports: Smith and Prigs are getting re-signed, Copeland is gone, and Brand is unlikely.

Nymr83 Jul 04 2013 07:40 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Surprised they got [crossout:1cyq9ru9]Starks[/crossout:1cyq9ru9] Smith back, I thought they couldn't afford him.

Vic Sage Jul 07 2013 02:23 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

They gave him the max they could ($24M/4yrs), so i guess there weren't too many other teams interested in paying more than $6m/per to a remorseless chucker whose game alternates between selfish and stupid, and who always seems just one more bad decision away from a personal catastrophe. Eloy Vargas, a center formerly of Kentucky, is signed for the Summer League. With Brand fading out of reach, and Martin looking like he's going to San Antonio, we are hard up for legit big men who can play D and rebound.

Vic Sage Jul 09 2013 02:01 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

summer league roster finalized: J'Covan Brown (PG) 6-1/197 Rethymno/Greece- R Chris Smith (PG) 6-2/195 Louisville/USA -R Toure Murry (PG) 6-5/199 Rio Grande/NBDL -R *Iman Shumpert (SG-SF) 6-5/220 Knicks/NBA -2 *Tim Hardaway Jr. (SG-SF) 6-6/205 Michigan/NCAA -R Tony Mitchell (SG-SF) 6-6/216 Fort Wayne/NBDL -R Justin Brownlee (SF) 6-7/219 San Diego/ABA -R *C.J. Leslie (SF-PF) 6-9/200 North Carolina State/NCAA -R Terrence Jennings (PF) 6-10/230 Iowa/NBDL -R Jeremy Tyler (PF) 6-10/260 Golden State/NBA -2 Eloy Vargas (PF-C) 6-11/244 San Lazaro/Dominican Republic -R A.J. Matthews (C) 7-0/215 Farmingdale State/NCAA -R Jerome Jordan (C) 7-0/253 Los Angeles/NBDL -1 * have contracts They've also worked out Raja Bell, but rumors that they are bringing back John Starks are unfounded.

Vic Sage Jul 11 2013 02:15 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Knicks considering PF Tyrus Thomas, just released by Bobcats. He's been shiite for a few years now, but he's still young, big and talented, with some good NBA seasons behind him. I wouldn't mind if they took a flyer on him. Ditto, regarding the basketball-player-formerly-known-as Ron Artest.... except for the "young" part. Otherwise, they'll have to find a big man among summer-leaguers like Jeremy Tyler or A.J. Matthews. Meanwhile, they're still talking to Kenyon Martin. They're also desperately scouring the wire for a PG willing to take the vet minimum (aka, Aaron Brooks); or else give the job to summer-leaguer Toure Murry. Here's my first lineup projection for this year, based on the current roster: Felton / Shumpert / Anthony / Bargnani / Chandler Prigioni / Hardaway / Smith / Leslie / Stoudemire + summer league FAs projected as possible roster fodder when camp opens: Murry / Mitchell / Tyler / Matthews

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 12 2013 12:34 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I'd heard Martin was headed for San Antone. Incorrect?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 12 2013 12:43 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I read that the Knicks gave up another #1 draft pick for their latest acquisition. I don't follow the Knicks anymore, so barring another trade, when do the Knicks next get to pick in the 1st round? [youtube:2d7jrxi2]izQB2-Kmiic[/youtube:2d7jrxi2]

Nymr83 Jul 12 2013 01:27 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I read that the Knicks gave up another #1 draft pick for their latest acquisition. I don't follow the Knicks anymore, so barring another trade, when do the Knicks next get to pick in the 1st round? 2033

Vic Sage Jul 15 2013 12:13 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

a team is prohibited from trading consecutive 1st rounders, so they gave up next years (2014) for Bargnani, after already trading their 2016 pick in a prior deal (anthony, i think). Plus they've traded all the 2nd rounders for the next 4 years. Yes, i hear Martin is going to San Antonio, but that's not a done deal. But it looks like the-player-formerly-known-as-RON ARTEST will be coming home after all. He made it thru waivers and wants to sign with the Knicks, who have $1.6m left (1/2 of mid-level exception). I don't know how much he has left, but he could be a useful defender. But if he takes shots away from Carmelo, chucking wild-assed 3s, they might come to blows. They still need another 4-5 and a backup PG. IN the summer league, I'm liking Murry as a big PG, and Jennings as a defensive PF.

Vic Sage Jul 15 2013 01:14 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

and no sooner than i post that rumor: According to Adrian Wojnarowski, Metta World Peace and the New York Knicks have reached an agreement in principal on a two-year deal. Financial details of the deal were not disclosed.

Vic Sage Jul 15 2013 01:21 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Felton / Smith / Artest / Anthony / Chandler Prigioni / Hardaway / Shumpert / Bargnani / Stoudemire Leslie / If he starts, Artest will push Bargs to the 2nd unit; Therefore, more scoring will be needed on 1st unit to help Melo, and more defense on 2nd, so JR will have to push Shumpert back. Still need another defensive big man and a 3rd PG.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 15 2013 07:43 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Metta's not a lock-down defender like when he was Artest, but he's still a real nice piece, especially at that price. Wish the Clips had the spot/$$ for him.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2013 10:21 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Plus, y'know, this team could use some tabloid presence-- last year's squad was way too coldly professional.

Vic Sage Jul 16 2013 08:34 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

JR Smith out 3-4 months with knee surgery... so i assume he knew he had this problem at the end of the season but didn't do anything about it for all these months until he signed somewhere, because fixing it in a timely way would have reduced his bargaining leverage as a FA. And clearly the Knicks knew he was doing this but signed him for top dollar anyway. So greed and stupidity combined to cost us our #2 scoring option for the beginning of the season at least (even assuming JR comes back at full strength, which Shumpert did not do last year). First Bargnani, then this. The year is starting out just great. Artest better cheer me up. Felton / Shumpert / Artest / Anthony / Chandler Prigioni / Hardaway / Leslie / Bargnani / Stoudemire DL: Smith

Vic Sage Jul 25 2013 09:23 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

It looks like their re-signing Kenyon Martin for 1-year at vet minimum, which i think is a good idea. He can't play much, but when he can, he's still pretty good and adds toughness in the low post. It also looks like they were impressed by PF/C Jeremy Tyler in the summer league and will giving him an invite along with PG Toure Murry, joining the already-signed CJ Leslie. I'm also hearing that Woodson wants Artest/MWP to start, so it's looking like this so far: Felton / Shumpert / Artest / Anthony / Chandler Prigioni / Hardaway / Bargnani / Martin / Stoudemire bench: Murry / Leslie / Tyler / ________ DL: Smith Assuming they keep all those summer league guys (which is not at all likely), they have one more slot on the roster. Given the health issues of Stats, Bargnani and Martin, and recent surgeries of Chandler and Anthony, i think they really need another big man (aside from Tyler).

Vic Sage Aug 12 2013 02:19 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

They've signed Beno Udrih as the 3rd PG, and i'm good with that. He's a useful player, and the Knicks found out that they often played best with 2 PGs on the floor at the same time, so a 3rd PG is essential for that kind of system (probably a 4th too, but lets not get ahead of ourselves). So now they have 14 guys under contract, leaving 1 slot. I read that they are still looking for an extra big man, which is a good idea. With the injury history of their current PFs/Cs (Stoudemire, K.Martin, Bargnani and Chandler, all of whom have spent extensive time on the DL in recent years), they need 1 more big body to throw out there. As much as i'd like to see another PG (like the guy Murry, from the summer league), i think this is the right way to go. Size matters. Felton / Shumpert / Artest / Anthony / Chandler Prigioni / Udrih / Smith (DL)* / Bargnani** / Stoudemire Martin / Hardaway Leslie / Tyler / ________ *** * hardaway plays until Smith comes off DL ** Bargnani shouldn't play with Stats; it's a defensive nightmare, but i think that's the way they're leaning. *** big man to be named later --

Vic Sage Sep 12 2013 02:25 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

So, Tyler broke his foot. Do they get another big man? No, they sign 2 backup PGs: Chris "my brother can ball" Smith and Toure "I've got a cool name" Murry. Meanwhile, JR's injury is augmented by a suspension. So they now have 16 guys signed for the 15-man roster (i don't think C.Smith or Murray have guaranteed contracts, and Leslie's contract is only partly guaranteed): Starters: Felton / Prigioni / Shumpert / Anthony / Chandler Rotation: Udrih / Hardaway / Artest / Stats / Bargnani Bench: Leslie (F) / Martin (PF/C) Reserve: C.Smith (PG) / Murry (PG-SG) / JR.Smith (SG-SF) [DL] /Tyler (PF-C) [DL]

Vic Sage Sep 24 2013 09:14 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

one more big body signed... center Cole Aldrich (6'11/240), a 1st round pick by NO a few years ago whose been a bust so far.

Vic Sage Sep 29 2013 10:04 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

NEW YORK (AP) -- The New York Knicks have signed veteran forward Ike Diogu, who has been out of the NBA for nearly all of the last two seasons. The team announced the move Friday. The 6-foot-9 Diogu was the ninth overall pick in the 2005 draft by Golden State and also has played for Indiana, Portland, Sacramento, the Los Angeles Clippers and San Antonio. He appeared in two games for the Spurs in 2011-12, then played in Puerto Rico and China. Diogu has averaged 6.0 points in 225 games in his six seasons. the Knicks pick up yet another 1st round bust (GS, 2005) for their front court. they seem to be stockpiling bums. oh well. they need some extra bodies for training camp.

Vic Sage Oct 02 2013 11:41 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 09 2013 08:21 AM

Knicks keep stockpiling big stiffs... Justin Brownlee (PF) of St. Johns and journeyman Josh Powell (FC) have joined first round busts Ike Diogu (FC) and Cole Aldrich (C), along with JR's little brother, Chris Smith (PG), as training camp fodder hoping for injuries to our current 15: Starters: Felton / Shumpert / Artest / Anthony / Chandler Rotation: Udrih / Prigioni / Hardaway*/ Martin**/ Bargnani Bench: J.Smith*[dl][susp] / Stoudemire**[dl] Reserve: Leslie (F) / Murry (PG-SG) /Tyler (PF-C) [dl] Invitees: Chris Smith (PG) / Cole Aldrich (C) / Ike Diogu (FC) / Josh Powell (FC) / [crossout]Justin Brownlee (PF)[/crossout] D-Roberts (SG-SF) The only non-guaranteed deal among the first 15 on the roster is Murry, whom they like as a big versatile defensive guard. I don't see any of these invitees pushing off Murry, Leslie, or Tyler (the last 2 with guaranteed deals), but you never know, i guess. Shit happens.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 02 2013 06:20 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

On the plus side, if they're ever in a team balloon race, they won't be at a loss for chuckable ballast.

Vic Sage Oct 03 2013 07:51 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

In a shuffle of ballast, they've dropped Brownlee and added Nets' former 2nd round stiff, swingman Chris Douglas-Roberts. Also, JR admitted he delayed getting his knee surgery until AFTER his new contract was negotiated, so his unavailability to start the season due to injury rehab [on top of his 5-game drug suspension] was brought about by his pursuit of his own self-interest at the expense of the team. Waytago JR! It's somehow reassuring to know he acts the same way off the court as on. in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if the addition of Douglas-Roberts was related to JR's situation, at least in part, so they don't have to rely solely on rookie Hardaway should JR continue his implosion.

Vic Sage Oct 27 2013 09:43 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

The New York Knicks have waived five players, getting their roster down to 15. Veteran big men Ike Diogu, Josh Powell and Jeremy Tyler were cut, as were forwards C.J. Leslie and Chris Douglas-Roberts. Chris Smith - whose brother J.R. Smith is on the team - was kept, along with center Cole Aldrich and guard Toure' Murry. Though coach Mike Woodson couldn't guarantee there wouldn't be another move before Monday's deadline, Friday's moves got the Knicks down to the NBA's roster limit. This looks to be the roster going into the opener. Murry made the team as a combo guard... not a big surprise, and i was glad to see it. And Aldrich took the backup bigman spot over Diogu, Powell and Tyer, also a solid choice among a thin bunch. And they cut recent pick up Douglas-Roberts with JR back in the fold, so no big surprise there either. But they cut Leslie, an athletic forward with a guaranteed contract to keep JR's brother Chris, a guard who can do absolutely nothing well. Despite the fact that their frontcourt is old and oft-injured, they're keeping C.Smith over frontcourt guys Diogu, Powell, Tyler and Leslie. Maybe they think Chris will keep JR out of the clubs at night? That's the only rationale. Or maybe they think one more big man will shake loose before the season starts, at which point they'll cut Chris. But i don't understand having PGs Felton, Prigioni, Udrih and Murry, and thinking you need a 5th. Even if you count Murry as a shooting guard, that's still Shumpert, JR, and Hardaway along with him, so we're overloaded at SG. too. With the walking MASH unit that is Stoudemire, Martin, Bargani and Chandler (with only Anthony as a healthy big forward), they better find SOMEBODY big and better than the bunch they just released. so their rotation for the opener, based on their last pre-season game lineup, may well be: Starters: Felton / Shumpert / Anthony / Bargnani / Chandler Rotation: Prigioni / Hardaway / Artest / Martin / Stoudemire Bench: Udrih / Aldrich* Reserves: Murry (PG-SG) / Chris Smith (PG) / JR (suspended)* JR is suspended for the first 5 games, so they'll probably make Aldrich active and either go with Udrih in a 2 PG 2nd-unit offense, or go bigger with Martin at PF Artest at SF, and Hardway at SG. likely the latter. I still don't like the idea of starting Bargnani. He has shown in the pre-season that he's precisely the piece of shit we thought he was and he forces Melo back to SF, where he has less of an advantage. They should go back to a Felton-Prigioni backcourt, let Shumpert play SF, next to Anthony and Chandler. This gives us a balanced attack, with better D and ball control. And Melo is going to take the bulk of the shots anyway, so there's no point in having Barfnani compete with him. Let Bagfanny come off the bench, with Udrih, JR, Artest and Stoudemire, for a bombs-away 2nd unit backing up a solid 2-way starting rotation, and Hardaway and Martin at the end of the bench in case of emergency, with Adrich, Murry and whoever they get when they release chris smith on reserve. And they need to keep a close eye on JR, ready to jettison him before the Zero hits the Carrier. This is true of BigNinny too, but they won't have the balls to bench him, much less cut or trade him. Before he's done, Baloney is going to make MSG miss Steve Novak. Hell, i miss him already.

Vic Sage Oct 31 2013 09:34 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Knicks: 1-0 Well i''m glad Woodson heard me. Apparently, after seeing Bargnani with the starting unit all pre-season, the coach shared my misgivings about him. So the Knicks won game 1 at home, against a bad Bucks team, using the starting lineup i had hoped for: Felton-Prigioni-Shumpert-Anthony-Chandler, with Udrih leading a 2nd unit with Hardaway (until JR gets back), Artest, Barfarama and K-Mart (who Woodson plans to alternate with Amare for the time being). We took a 25-point lead at halftime, then slowly gave it all back, just like last season. But in the end, defensive intensity from Shump, Prigs and especially Chandler (he had 5 blocks!) allowed the Knicks to close the Bucks out. Yes we had too many turnovers, and a loss of focus in the 2nd half, but our balanced attack, together with defensive aggressiveness, make me hopeful about the season. We'll be less reliant on Anthony's scoring i think. Now if either Amare or Martin can provide an effective 10-15m a night, it will further reduce Bargnani's presence and give us a really deep bench.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 31 2013 09:54 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

If that was Hardaway's first, tenuous, a-little-bit-nervous outing, and he keeps developing his shot-creation abilities/working to get better on D... I'm not sure I care if J. R. comes back. Tyson Chandler is still maybe the most important player on this team most nights. Which, y'know, isn't frightening at all or anything.

d'Kong76 Oct 31 2013 08:54 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Aggravating one point loss tonight.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 01 2013 07:05 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Especially since Rose is obviously still working through rust, and since they were ending the game on a mini-run, and since they had been dominating every facet of the game in the last few minutes, save the whole putting-ball-in-hoop-for-points thing.

Vic Sage Nov 01 2013 01:17 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

bargnani started = loss

d'Kong76 Nov 06 2013 01:36 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Chandler out 4-6 weeks ... wonderful

Vic Sage Nov 06 2013 01:53 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

shitfuck; more playing time for Bigfanny. Chandler's the heart of this team.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 06 2013 07:54 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

A heartless team featuring Bargnani? Sounds about right. This will be a long November.

metirish Nov 12 2013 09:05 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

This is typical Dolan http://deadspin.com/the-knicks-in-one-p ... 1462915558 Woj has a column up that's ostensibly about the Knicks' latest insane notion—that they can sign Kevin Love in 2015—but which actually serves as a fine excuse to catalog New York's pervasive, perpetual state of rot. It captures basically every ill of the franchise in one tidy paragraph: Within the Knicks coaching staff, they believe Chris Smith doesn't even have the talent to be an NBA Development League player – never mind worthy of a roster spot. One opposing GM called him "maybe the worst player in the history of the [NBA] summer league." Chris Smith, you'll remember, is the brother of Knicks' guard JR Smith, and made the roster as a package sweetener for his brother, who was a free agent this summer (both Smiths are represented by Creative Arts Agency). The deal is an embarrassing act of deference to CAA, but Woj points out that James Dolan, the Knicks' genital wart of an owner, actually forced through a guaranteed contract for the younger Smith last year, when he was represented by a different agency, before he blew out his knee. Now the worst player in summer league history is clogging up a roster spot when New York needs to find room for a big man with Tyson Chandler out several weeks. And all of this tucked neatly into the solidification of the Knicks as Carmelo's team; he's seized more than enough organizational power to squash idiotic roster moves, but seems uninterested in flexing it, settling for churlish banalities about winning and pull-up jumpers. Nepotism, bad deals, self-inflicted obstacles, very bad basketball players, and a lethargic motioning toward a non-existent future. Doesn't get much more Knicks than that. [Yahoo] Woj article here, worth a read http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--knick ... 30695.html

d'Kong76 Dec 01 2013 08:10 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Knicks stuck at 3 wins ... it's beyond suck and it's only the first of December. 3-13 ... woo-hoo!!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 02 2013 12:35 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

No matter whom they're playing, I'm actually surprised when they luck into a win. It's going to be a long December, too.

Vic Sage Dec 02 2013 02:34 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

A long December, but a short April. So Shumpert yells at Anthony on the bench the other night for not playing defense and, of course, it's SHUMPERT who is on the way out. i hate this team. who is going to tell MWPeace and Stats that they're both done? when will this team start playing defense and stop settling for long jumpers? where did their 3-point shooting go? why is JR Smith getting minutes and Prigioni not? how much longer do we have to put up with Dolan's moronic decisions? what the fuck is going on here?

batmagadanleadoff Dec 02 2013 04:10 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I've loved basketball my whole life. Still do. I was a Knicks fan since a little while after becoming a Mets fan, and as a teenager, I played basketball for more than 25 hours a week. I was pretty good, too. But I haven't seen an entire Knicks game since the 20th century. And I haven't been to the Garden to see a Knicks game in person in almost 20 years. Who's Prigioni?

d'Kong76 Dec 02 2013 05:42 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Prigioni http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ipa01.html

d'Kong76 Dec 05 2013 07:34 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Manhattan Knicks giving the Brooklyn Nets a beat down. Next year they can change their name to The Brooklyn Nets of New York and sell even more cool looking stuff.

Nymr83 Dec 05 2013 07:42 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

SUCK IT NETS!!!

Vic Sage Dec 07 2013 10:17 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

back to back blowouts... watch out, baby, the bockers are back! (he said sarcastically)

Nymr83 Dec 09 2013 11:03 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Vic Sage wrote: back to back blowouts... watch out, baby, the bockers are back! (he said sarcastically) Wel, we should have known what was coming. I thought maybe they could beat boston before the letdown came, oh well. At least i didjt watch much thanks to the jets

Vic Sage Dec 09 2013 11:11 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

a 15-3 start pretty much set the tone from the get-go and allowed me to move on to football pre-game show rather easily.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 09 2013 10:15 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Grantland's been murdelizing the Knicks this week: Should We Blow It Up? Two Knicks Fans Contemplate the Past, Present, and Future We Went There: The Knicks and Nets Circle the Drain at the Toilet Bowl Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Bargs The Knicks Suck

batmagadanleadoff Dec 10 2013 12:11 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Grantland's been murdelizing the Knicks this week: Should We Blow It Up? Two Knicks Fans Contemplate the Past, Present, and Future We Went There: The Knicks and Nets Circle the Drain at the Toilet Bowl Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Bargs The Knicks Suck One more: The NBA's E-League. Save for two teams, the Eastern Conference is a muddled mess of mediocre players, bad executives and even worse contracts

d'Kong76 Dec 17 2013 12:47 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

What the hell kind of ending to game (another loss) last night. Three time outs, lollygagging up the floor, and crappy last shot. Hello???? Chandler may be back on Wednesday?

Vic Sage Dec 17 2013 01:40 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Woodson should be fired immediately.

d'Kong76 Dec 17 2013 06:40 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Well, that might be a bit rash ... and I didn't realize this was a back page thing when I posted that. I just happened on some highlights on a sports station and was like wtf.

Nymr83 Dec 17 2013 08:40 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I think I remember reading somewhere that you have a better % chance to win if you quickly inbound and move the ball down the court after the other team scores than you do by calling timeout and letting them set their defense while you set a play up. cant find the study on that though and it may not have applied with the number of seconds left on the clock. also, i'd have fouled much earlier in the shot clock, even if they hit 2 shots you have the ball down with more time left than you do if they score, and thats the worst-case scenario of IF they hit 2 free throws. as for Woodson, they won 54 games last year and Chandler has played only 3 games and a few minutes in a 4th this year. chill out on the "fire the coach" antics, 54 wins should buy him the full year to tun things around.

d'Kong76 Feb 21 2014 08:01 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Good golly ... Defense! This teams sucks bhmc.

Nymr83 Feb 22 2014 08:47 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Has the trade deadline passed? Hardaway isnt his father, but i was a bit worried they would deal him for someone older and not much better. Normally i would advocate blowing up a mess liKe this, but with all yheir draft picks for the next ten years traded away what is the point?

d'Kong76 Feb 25 2014 11:22 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

It just never ends with these professional athletes ... http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_ ... ns-charges

Nymr83 Feb 25 2014 11:23 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I was at the game last night. I always forgetthe garden was built for midgets and the remodel did nothing to address the lack of leg room. Felton busted after the game for an illegal gun. He alegedly pointed it in his wife's face. Another thug in the NBA. Enjoy prison!

d'Kong76 Feb 25 2014 11:24 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Brutal ending to witness live, I'm sure.

Nymr83 Feb 25 2014 11:26 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

d'Kong76 wrote: Brutal ending to witness live, I'm sure. I thought we had overtime when he shot it, but it clanked in off the back of the rim

Vic Sage Feb 26 2014 03:52 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

He alegedly pointed it in his wife's face. Well at least he's effective at the point SOMEWHERE in his life. This season has turned into the Bataan death march. Wasn't it only yesterday that Shump had 2 back-to-back 20 pt games in Texas and the media was anointing him as "arrived" and the team was on the verge of making a run? Just to be clear, i don't think ANY of this is Melo's fault. He's doing everything he can to win and getting help from NOBODY. I want to see more Jeremy Tyler, Henry Aldrich and Toure Murry, and MWPeace, too, just for old times sake, and no more of Felton, who sucked even before he turned felonious. Let Udrih play... at least he only sucks. And Felton's gun should be used to put down Smith like the sick dog he is. Prigioni / Hardaway / Melo / Tyler / Chandler Udrih / Murry / MWP / Stats / Aldrich bench: Felton / Smith dl: bargiani / Martin / Shumpert

Nymr83 Feb 26 2014 04:49 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Didnt they buy out Udrih and Artest? You wont be seeing Felton again, he is going own the Burress path now. Is that the actual rotation or your own ideal? If actual, smith is the backup SG and probably the 7th man right now

Vic Sage Feb 27 2014 10:15 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

They were talking about buying out udrih and artest, but there's been no report that its actually happened. I don't see the point of doing it now. And according to Woodson, he's going to play Felton, not sit him. And no, that's not the ACTUAL rotation i posted, just one i'm proposing for the balance of the year, so i don't have to look at Felton and Smith anymore. If Udrih and MWP are in fact bought out, they can still go with an 8-man rotation keeping Feltgun and J(ust) R(idiculous) Smith on the bench. of course they won't. because that would require some backbone or, you know, character.

Nymr83 Feb 27 2014 07:35 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I'm shocked Felton is out there, it really shows the character of this team and league.

d'Kong76 Feb 27 2014 08:09 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I'm sure the court appreciated his attire And he's eyeballing that sidearm!

Nymr83 Feb 27 2014 08:34 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

lmao!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 27 2014 08:44 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

As a regular observer of this team... how the hell are you shocked that Felton's out there? It makes TOTAL sense, in context.

Vic Sage Feb 28 2014 09:18 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Okay, so they did in fact dump Udrih and MWP, and picked up 10-day contracts for Shannon Brown (a 29- year old shooting guard whose now on his 7th team in 8 years and has never done much) and Earl Clark (a 26-year old PF, sometimes misplayed at SF, who showed at least a little promise 2 years ago with LA before crapping out with Cleveland this year, until they dumped him). Not only were these guys not worth clearing roster space for, they do not even fit any immediate needs (as if a team that has collapsed and is out of it HAS any immediate needs beyond restocking talent). We're 3 deep at PF (Melo/Stats/Tyler, with Martin and Bargnani on the DL) and at SG (Smith/Hardaway/Murry, with Felton getting minutes there too and Shump on the DL). And I'd rather see Tyler get minutes over Clark, and Stats too, to maybe reestablish value for an off-season trade of his expiring contract, and minutes for Hardaway and Murry shouldn't go to BUSTer Brown. Instead of players of established marginal value, they should pick up some young PGs and/or Centers from the D-League, or international leagues, and see what they can uncover for next year. Maybe nothing, but its worth a chance. But this? It's just a waste of time. Given this roster, they should go: Prigioni / Hardaway / Melo / Tyler / Chandler -- Murry / Brown / Clark / Stats / Aldrich Bench: Felton / Smith DL: barfiani / Martin / Shumpert But this is the way they'll probably do it instead: Felton / Prigioni / Smith / Melo / Chandler -- Brown / Hardaway / Clark, Tyler / Stats Bench: Murry / Aldrich DL: Barfiani / Martin / Shumpert

batmagadanleadoff Mar 04 2014 07:19 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

[fimg=273]http://s2.wp.com/wp-content/themes/vip/espn-grantland/img/grantland-logo.png[/fimg] The New York Knicks: It’s the Hope That Kills You in the End Hope is the most basic unit of the sports social contract. The 2013-14 Knicks are the worst Knicks team I have ever experienced because of the totality with which the franchise, at every level of engagement, has destroyed even the illusion of hope. The players don’t fit, the team’s options for adding players are nil, the coach can’t find his best lineup unless nearly all his players are injured, and the franchise seems more concerned with bad press than bad play. The team’s incompetence is so complete that it is almost easier to believe this all some kind of evil plan. Surely no team can fuck up this much? The myriad ways the Knicks have found to blow games stretches the mere act of losing into tragi-farce performance art. The Knicks do not just lose, they explore the concept of losing. They are four games out of a playoff spot in the worst Eastern Conference in history. They have no draft pick in the best draft in a decade. Their coach either purposefully designed the worst possible defensive scheme for his team’s personnel, or his team just doesn’t listen to him. Their best player is entering unrestricted agency, and the team’s best hope for re-signing him is that perhaps he cares more about money than winning. The starting point guard very well may go to jail. The last two games have given national audiences something of a taste of the different flavors of Knicks hopelessness and its various side dishes. The Warriors came to the Garden on Friday night, fresh off a 20-point choke-out at the hands of the Chicago Bulls. Golden State won three of the four quarters against the Knicks, led by as many as 27, and won the game by 23, without any of its players breaking a sweat. The emblematic moment of Knicks despair bubbled to the surface in the fourth quarter, as Tyson Chandler, once a perennial Defensive Player of the Year candidate, currently averaging zero fucks given, decided he’d had just about enough of this shit, thank you very much, and took out his frustrations on Marreese Speights, leading to an ejection. As teammates separated Speights and Chandler, Melo glided by the scrum without as much as an uninterested glance in its direction. You don’t have to be a body language expert to be able to read “Whatever.” Then on Sunday afternoon (coming into this game, New York was 0-6 when playing before 3 p.m.), the Knicks faced off against the Bulls at the United Center. While Mike Woodson has in past weeks blamed injuries for the team’s struggles, Tom Thibodeau has taken a team saddled with various ailments afflicting key players, including former league MVP Derrick Rose, and wrung every last drop of effort out of it to the tune of a 33-26 record, all while engaged in something of a cold war with his own front office. Joakim Noah had a 13-point, 14-assist (welcome to the Knicks Career-High Club, JoNo!), 12-rebound triple double. It was the first time in 28 years a center has notched 14 assists, and the entire game took on the feeling of something like a reverse job interview for the services of one Carmelo Anthony. After the game, J.R. Smith, of all people, questioned the Knicks’ collective heart. J.R. SMITH! Here’s what being a Knicks fan means in 2014: If you care about the team, you’ve more than likely wondered if Ray Felton going to jail could possibly help New York’s cap position. It’s that dark. Being a fan of the New York Knicks is to grapple with these formulations where actual harm to a person’s quality of life is about the only avenue left for maintaining even the illusion of hope that this ill-constructed, capped-out team could improve in anything like the near term. Maybe Amar’e will suffer a career-ending injury. Maybe Ray will end up doing a bid. Maybe Carmelo cares more about money than he does about ever having a chance at winning a title. Maybe James Dolan … never mind. Bandwagon fans are reviled because their seeming opportunism calls into question their authenticity, or their capacity to maintain hope through the downtimes. This, in the mind of the “real fan,” translates to some kind of fundamental untrustworthiness inherent in a bandwagon fan’s character. It’s a ridiculous thing to believe, yes, but fandom is inherently ridiculous, if you let yourself think about it all. In fact, thinking about it is antithetical to sports fandom itself. If you take time to consider it, following the ups and downs of a group of men wearing color-coordinated clothing makes very little sense. Fans have no actual agency regarding wins or losses — it’s a trick of the light played on our bone-deep instinct for tribalism. That’s why I’ve never felt any particular animosity toward — for lack of a better word — the “dumb fans.” The Kobe stans, the count-the-ringzz types, those poor souls who really think the Knicks are one player away. Teams sell hope. That some people buy in to the hope more than others is less interesting to me than the fact that we all, on some level, need to buy in to it in the first place. The 8-year-old fan might spend two hours drawing a favorite player on the back of a notebook. The 28-year-old fan might spend two hours researching game film and breaking down that favorite player’s on/off numbers. That one expression of fandom seems more intellectual than the other does not change that they are both basically the same thing. The accrued weight of the franchise’s failures and lost gambles means the team’s fans have been forced to really think about what they’re doing, and thinking is the death of fandom. I’m not talking about arguments over stats and players and salary cap figures — that’s thinking within the framework of the social construct of sports fandom. I’m talking about thinking to yourself, “Why am I doing this?” http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-n ... n-the-end/

Vic Sage Mar 04 2014 09:06 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014 Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 04 2014 09:47 AM

The best kind of writing... beautiful and true. Kudos to netw3rk (that name supports my thesis the other day regarding FAFIF that bloggers are no less likely to be great writers than columnists). But is this the "worst" Knicks team I've ever seen? There have been Knicks teams i followed that will have lost more games, and teams with unlikeable veterans, with lineups comprised of felons and drug addicts, teams that didn't sniff the playoffs. So is this the "worst" one in Netw3rk's sense that it was most violative of my hope? I'm not sure. Lets look. First, I'm looking at 50-loss teams that played after the championship era of the late `60s-early `70s (1968-74), when i first became a fan. So that eliminates the terrible teams of the early 60s, because i never saw them. Of the 50-loss teams, I'll narrow it to the ones that came after a playoff season. [u:yw8ohiv8] 1978-79 (31-51):[/u:yw8ohiv8] This team came after a 43-win team that got knocked out of the playoffs early, which followed two earlier years .500 non-playoff teams, so it didn't have great expectations. Also, it was the beginning of the Ray Williams / Michael Ray Richardson backcourt, which was the core of a pretty exciting playoff team for a few years. So, no, this isn't a "worst" team candidate. 1984-85 (24-58) 1985-86 (23-59) [u:yw8ohiv8]1986-87 (24-58)[/u:yw8ohiv8] Those were the bad Hubie Brown teams. In `83-`84 (47w-35l), Bill Cartwright and the great Bernard King led them to the 2nd round. But in 84-85, King blew out his knee, missing the last 3rd of the season, and Cartwright was out for the entire year, so they crashed. But that team was devastated by injury, not the consequence of a bad plan or bad players. And that was true of 85-86 too, which King and Cartwright missed as well, and it was also Patrick King's rookie year, and so hope was on the rise. 86-87 had the twin towers, Ewing and Cartwright, in the frontcourt with the explosive Gerald Wilkins. Kenny Sky Walker was a bust, but we knew we were on the rise, riding on Ewing's back. So no, none of these teams can qualify as "worst". [u:yw8ohiv8]2001-02 (30-52):[/u:yw8ohiv8] These were the post-Ewing years. The knicks had won 48 the year before. The core of Allan Houston and Latrell Sprewell running and gunning, with Camby and Kurt Thomas blocking and rebounding, and the home-grown Mark Jackson returning from exile to run the point... 00-01 was a fun team, but their 1st round loss was disappointing. Then Glenn Rice and Larry Grandmama Johnson joined the core, with Charlie Ward replacing Jackson at PG, and they took a step back. Rice and Johnson were on the downside, Jackson was being phased out, Camby missed more than half the season, Sprewell had choked the coach, and too many minutes were going to guys like Clarence Weatherspoon, Shandon Anderson and Othella Harrington. Yeah, that was a pretty disappointing team overall, and the beginning of a crappy era, the crappiest in team history. After a playoff appearance in 2002-03, 04-05 began a terrible period through 2009-10 (a 6-year 50 loss stretch). So yes, this team is in the running for worst. [u:yw8ohiv8]2013-14 (21-40 to date):[/u:yw8ohiv8] After the last three years in the playoffs, including a 54-win 1st place season and a 1st round victory over the Celts last year, this team looked to be highly competitive coming into the season. And then this happened. Not only playing badly, but dispirited, dull, clueless, defenseless basketball. You can't really blame injuries (there are always some injuries; this team wasn't devastated by them). We've got 1 guy starting the season on suspension and another getting arrested for gun possession, an all-star center showing no interest at all, the worst backcourt i've ever seen in orange & blue, and a superstar pounding the rock until he takes his guy 1-on-1. But he's also averaging 8.5 rebs (2nd to Chandler) and 3 ass (most among the team's forwards), while scoring 30pt/pg, so anybody blaming him is missing the point of this team entirely. They're on a pace to loss 50, and considering where they were last year, and their lack of options going forward, and the style of ball they are currently playing, i'd have to say yes, this is the worst team i've ever seen wear a Knicks uniform, edging out the 01-02 team by a long stride.

d'Kong76 Mar 04 2014 09:20 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I'm gonna go out to the garage and asphyxiate myself! Be right back.

metirish Mar 04 2014 09:20 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Excellent article and excellent from Vic. I try watching them but christ they really are awful, not even Clyde can hide behind his enthusiasm. I have always found it funny and telling that over the years talk about the Knicks often centered on "making a run" on "BIG NAME FA" in two years time...let's keep Melo happy and tell him we can get Paul in two years......no way to build is it?

Vic Sage Mar 04 2014 09:47 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Normally, a team in this situation dumps all its big contracts and tanks to get in position for a top draft pick. But they have no picks. They can trade their big contracts expiring next year, because expiring contracts have cap value, but we'd have to take bad contracts in return, so that's of little use. They could've tried to trade Melo, but who are they going to get back to build around? What draft choice can we get that will net us a player as good as him? And if he refused to extend, what team would give anything for him as a short-term rental? And even if there was a clear path through this disaster, do we trust this owner, prez and gm to make the right decisions to guide us to daylight? When they haven't made any yet? I don't. Hopeless is right.

d'Kong76 Mar 04 2014 10:03 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Fuck all of them, except Chandler, and start with Anthony. He's all about himself, and couldn't keep his FA mouth shut at the start of the and it pissed me off then and even more so now that the season is beyond a train wreck. *spits*

metirish Mar 04 2014 10:13 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

If Donnie Walsh had been left in place might things have been better? I know he signed Amare to that stupid contract, or at least he was there then.....just seemed like things were on a good path when he was given some time and then gone.

Vic Sage Mar 04 2014 10:26 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

d'Kong76 wrote: Fuck all of them, except Chandler, and start with Anthony. He's all about himself, and couldn't keep his FA mouth shut at the start of the and it pissed me off then and even more so now that the season is beyond a train wreck. *spits* Chandler has been a much bigger dog this year than Anthony. He's thrown his own coach under the bus, picked stupid fights with other players and refs, and generally gotten beaten on D, when that's his primary job. I used to love him but after this year I'd ship him out in a heartbeat. And EVERY player is about himself. What did Anthony specifically say with his FA mouth that upset you so? All he (or his wife) have said that i'm aware of is that they'd prefer to stay in NY. Which is a good thing. The only problem i have with Melo is that, when he was with Denver, he forced them into a sign-and-trade rather than just letting his contract expire and signing with NY after the season, so we didn't have to trade all those assets to get him. But from his POV, the league's CBA was expiring and he wasn't going to be able to get the same kind of deal if he waited than he would if he extended with NY during the season. So that was a money move, which i get. It didn't make me happy, but i get it. And its not like any of the players they gave up became stars upon their departure. It was the draft picks that Dolan threw in to sweeten the deal (that Walsh had not wanted to include) that screwed us. At this point, Anthony would help the team most by playing out his contract and declaring FA. Then, the Knicks have to find a way to get rid of Stats, Chandler, Smith and Barfnani (or some combo) so they have cap room to sign Rondo. Then they can re-sign Melo under the Bird Rule for his full price.

d'Kong76 Mar 04 2014 10:36 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

What pissed me off was that he 'announced' free agency before the first tip-off this season. I thought it was selfish at the time and I still do I guess.

Vic Sage Mar 04 2014 10:41 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

that question would have been asked him all year long if he hadn't answered it up front. All the "no comment"s and "i haven't decided"s and "no, i'll stay"s in the world wouldn't have stopped the constant haranging. And his free agency HELPS the Knicks, it doesn't hurt them. Otherwise, his huge contract eats up so much cap space that they can't make another move for next year. This way, they get his contract off the books and at least give them a shot of doing something to improve; then they can re-sign him for whatever he wants.

d'Kong76 Mar 04 2014 10:48 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Ok, you've talked me off the ledge. For now.

Vic Sage Mar 04 2014 10:59 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

oh, no, I just thought i'd join you out there. you can't possibly think these assclowns will get anything right for next year, do you?

Ashie62 Mar 04 2014 04:43 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I don't understand how a team that plays in New York at the greatest arena in the world can perpetually suck... Actually about 20 teams suck as bad. Maybe the league should get smaller....

batmagadanleadoff Mar 05 2014 10:54 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

The best kind of writing... beautiful and true. Kudos to netw3rk (that name supports my thesis the other day regarding FAFIF that bloggers are no less likely to be great writers than columnists). I wish I had something to contribute to this thread, but I stopping following the Knicks about 15 years ago. I guess I've lost hope. BTW, I don't know any fan with your passion for the Knicks. I don't know if this says more about the Knicks or that I'm getting old and know less and less people with each passing year. But I've been reading your steady stream of posts scrutinizing the Knicks over the years, all the while bewildered that this franchise can still manage to keep its knowledgeable fans. Read Grantland. They've been killing the Knicks this season, about once a week, at least. Here's their True Detective flavored piece on the Knicks from about two weeks ago. True Knicks Detective INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT 2/19/14 Detective Gilbough: Thanks for coming in, we— Rust Cohle: First off, somebody’s got to run and get me some beer. Detective Papania: You can’t drink in here. Cohle: It’s trade deadline day. On trade deadline day I start drinking at noon and you guys aren’t gonna get in the way of that. [Detective Papania leaves the room.] Cohle: [Lights cigarette.] Det. Gilbough: [Crosstalk.] … you know you can’t smoke in here. Cohle: You want to hear this or not? [Papania returns, sets beer on table.] Cohle: OK, so lemme guess — dead girls posed at ritualistic crime scenes? Couple kids found out in the swamp … Det. Papania: No, worse. The Knicks’ trade deadline options. Cohle: [Sighs.] Det. Gilbough: Tell us what you know about the rumored Clippers deal. Cohle: Shumpert and Felton to the Clippers for Darren Collison, Reggie Bullock, and whatever else to make the salaries match. Yeah, I heard about it. See, the thing to understand is the Knicks are a mistake. A mistake of evolution. Nature gave us consciousness and created an aspect of nature separate from itself. We are consciousnesses wrapped in rotting meat trying to figure out the point of it all, and the lesson of the Knicks at deadline day is this: There is no point. Of course the Knicks want to trade Felton. He’s shooting 29 percent from 3, only makes 53 percent of his dang layups, and gets caught on screens like they’re made out of rubber cement. Collison? Well, he’s a slight upgrade. Slight. And he’s got a cheaper contract. Sure. The question then becomes why the Clippers would take on Felton just to add Iman Shumpert— Det. Papania: What about Iman Shumpert? They sure have been trying to trade him a bunch. It’s not like he’s been playing well on offense. But he’s an athlete. Defends the perimeter. The team is almost seven points per 100 possessions better when he’s in the game. Cohle: And two points better on offense per 100 possessions, despite Iman only shooting 33 percent with zero free-throw attempts over his last eight games. Listen, detectives, 14 years, hour after hour, watching Knicks draftees, wasted assets, young players who come in here all full of life and excitement over playing in the Garden, in New York City, making hashtags and all multipart handshake celebrations, jumping off the bench to high-five teammates — you know what you recognize after all that time? You look in their eyes as the trade rumors pile up, doesn’t matter if it’s on TV or in the paper, you can still read them. And you know what you see? At the end, they welcomed it. Welcomed the trade. Not at first. At first they were angry, bewildered, betrayed. But after month after month of being yanked around, not being developed, they realized how easy it was to just let go. That’s what happened to Iman. Det. Papania: [Unintelligible.] … so you’d trade him? Cohle: Might as well. He’s ruined anyway. [Cuts beer can into the shape of a man.] They all are. Any young player who goes in there will be. Still, Shumpert and Felton for Collison and Bullock is still a giving up an asset to make what is essentially a lateral trade. I’d try to get a draft pick for him. Det. Gilbough: So, you don’t think the team will do anything? You don’t think they’ll do anything … relevant. Det. Pampania: [Slides folder across table.] What about Udrih for Jordan Hamilton? Cohle: [Opens folder, looks at pictures inside.] Is that all you got? Det. Gilbough: You think they’ll fire Woodson? Cohle: Twenty wins, can’t guard anything, random double-teaming, sagging off 3-point shooters. Nah, they won’t fire him. He’s got friends in high places, detectives. [Takes drag on cigarette.] See, the trade deadline for the Knicks, same as the offseason, it’s all about selling hope, a light at the end of the tunnel. Well, that’s what the general manager sells, that’s what the owner sells, talking about competing for championships after dealing three draft picks for Andrea Bargnani, or floating the details of a trade for another one-way player, or over-the-hill malcontent. Matt Barnes. Ha. See, the front office encourages your capacity for illusion. Then they tell you it’s a fucking virtue. Always a buck to be had doing that. Season ticket sales, corporate luxury boxes. And it’s such a desperate sense of entitlement, isn’t it? [Gesturing toward ceiling.] “Surely this is all for me? Me, me, I … I … we’re so fucking important, the World’s Most Famous Arena.” Fuck you. See, in this eternity, there is no time. Det. Gilbough: Now, hold on— Rust Cohle: You ever hear of something called “M-brane theory”? Det. Pampania: No, that’s over my head. Cohle: It’s, like, in this universe, we process time linearly. Forward. But outside of our space-time, from what would be a fourth-dimensional perspective, time wouldn’t exist. From that vantage, our space-time would look flattened, with matter occupying every position it ever occupied. And we just run around on that track. I mean, how many times have we had this conversation, detectives? About what the Knicks will do, which moves they’ll make? How many times have we been in this room, talking about the team being over the cap, giving up assets for moves, that at best, move the team sideways on their little infinite track of space-time? We’ll be here again, detectives. Wondering if Mike Woodson is going to be fired. Again. And again. There’s no closure. Ha. Closure. This is a world where nothing involved with the Knicks is ever solved. —————End Interview—————— http://grantland.com/the-triangle/true- ... detective/

Vic Sage Mar 05 2014 11:17 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

In Coney, Basketball was king. The Dodgers were long gone, with the Mets a poor substitute for most people, but you could go to any playground in Brooklyn and see HS kids playing a pretty exciting brand of b-ball. And i often did. I was a Knicks fan first, before the Mets. I have memories of Dave DeBusshere and Dollar Bill Bradley passing and moving without the ball, and Clyde and the Pearl swishing and dishing, and Reed, the anchor in the middle, that precede my memories of Matlack's rookie season, which is when i really started following the Mets. I mean, i was aware of the Mets before that, but i don't think i went to games before the 71 season, and it was Seaver that year that first captured my imagination. But Clyde had already stolen my heart. Yes, i guess i love baseball more at this point in my life, and for most of my life probably, but BBall was my first love, and you never forget your first, even as unrequited as this one is.

Vic Sage Mar 10 2014 09:32 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

the Phil Jackson thing is ridiculous. It's one thing to give this kind of "consultant with total authority" deal to a GM/Coach in his prime (Pat Riley, Danny Ainge, Larry Bird, Jerry West), but Jackson is a broken-down 70-year-old who doesn't really want to live in NY, or work that hard at all anymore. He doesn't want to coach and has never had to be a team's primary talent evaluator. Who says all those rings make him any good at that? All he brings is a name and a rep, which is probably all Dolan wants, to distract from the wreck he's made of the franchise. He'll promise Jackson complete autonomy, but he won't resist involving himself for long. At which point the whole thing will blow up. I'm hoping this is about Phil using Dolan to get leverage for a similar deal with the Lakers, and Dolan using Jackson as a PR maneuver and a distraction. We do need a powerful basketball presence as the face of the organization, with authority to make all final decisions. We need somebody younger, energetic, experienced with proven talent evaluation expertise, but that's not Phil Jackson at this point in his career. And as long as Dolan runs the team, there's no hope of giving that kind of authority to somebody powerful who knows what they are doing.

Frayed Knot Mar 10 2014 09:59 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

It's certainly tough to make the case that this coupling (assuming it happens) will end well for either Jackson or the Knicks.

d'Kong76 Mar 10 2014 12:12 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Multiple news outlets are reporting this will happen.

Nymr83 Mar 10 2014 08:48 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

wouldnt someone other than Dolan having total-no-owner-interference-control be a step in the right direction?

Frayed Knot Mar 11 2014 06:45 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Nymr83 wrote: wouldnt someone other than Dolan having total-no-owner-interference-control be a step in the right direction? Sure, if you believe that: 1) Dolan really is going to end his meddling ways and not just say that only to butt in three weeks into the new order when the first thing he doesn't approve of happens. One would think Jackson's position is strong enough that he'd make it clear that the first time Dolan walks in his office door is the day Phil walks out of it, but I think that sort of arrangement often works much better in theory than in practice. Brian Cashman had it written into his contract that he had final say over player acquisitions but that didn't stop the Steinbrenner boys from signing Raphael Soriano just days after Cashman stated publicly that signing him as a FA set-up man (at closer prices no less) was neither a good use of dollars or worth the draft pick they'd have to give up to get him. 2) That Phil is going to be more than a figurehead and actually has the energy & willingness to do the grunt work necessary to tear down a bad team and build a good one in its place [see Vic's post above]. But with his two homes 2,500 (Montana) & 3,000 (Santa Monica) miles away (one of which houses his girlfriend/life-partner or whatever their status is this week) it's not even clear that he's going to be in NYC all that often much less slogging it out every day in the office or on the road. 3) That he's the right guy for the job in the first place. He made his status as a coach and it's clear he's not going to do that here. Maybe there's a terrific GM inside him also--I don't claim to know--but it's not like there's a lengthy track record showing that he is. Bottom line is that if I were to predict whether this will put the Knicks up at or near the top of the league in the next few years or end badly for both sides, badly meaning some combination of Phil leaving with a blot on his resume & reputation, and the team with just another "name" acquisition that worked out to nothing more than another few years and millions of dollars spent running in place - I'd bet on the latter.

metirish Mar 11 2014 06:52 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Yeah, report I saw last night had Dolan making final decisions, it's a stupid move.

Vic Sage Mar 11 2014 11:39 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

stupid? it'd have to be alot smarter to just be stupid. this will be disastrous. Right at the time when key decisions will need to be made about rebuilding, we'll have a semi-retired coach/1st-time GM abandoning the franchise when his asshat owner breaches his contract and insists on hiring Isiah as an asst GM, or demands we give up our last remaining draft pick in this decade for a washed-up player with a huge contract who has name recognition that will "sell tickets" (because fans are idiots in his worldview). Or maybe just ream the zen master for talking openly to the press (which Jackson likes to do), which Phil will accept by gettin' on a plane to Montana. Yep, this is HOF-type stupid. the only upside will be the way Jackson subsequently abuses and tortures Dolan and MSG in the media (and hopefully a tell-all book) for the rest of Dolan's pathetic life.

d'Kong76 Mar 11 2014 11:54 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I'll believe it all when it happens. I can't see him taking any position at this point in life without full autonomy.

Vic Sage Mar 11 2014 11:57 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

d'Kong76 wrote: I'll believe it all when it happens. I can't see him taking any position at this point in life without full autonomy. i agree; and i think Dolan will give him a contract that says he has full autonomy. But Dolan won't live up to it (he's congenitally unable to), and then what? Principled Phil will not be fucked with, and he will walk away, leaving us at square 1... again.

d'Kong76 Mar 14 2014 02:25 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

On behalf of the CPF, MSG, and the NYK ... I present PHIL!!! [fimg=800:2e0vr840]http://kathyewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/dr-phil1.jpg[/fimg:2e0vr840]

Vic Sage Mar 19 2014 09:11 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Jacksonian era begins with impressive win over Indy, Knicks now on a 7-0 streak.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 19 2014 10:39 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

This is weird. This feels weird. I'm excited. And unnerved. Scared, a little.

d'Kong76 Mar 20 2014 06:09 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

[fimg=600:20kcmco0]http://voices.suntimes.com/wp-content/uploads/import//21200-phil-jackson-bulls-lakers.jpg[/fimg:20kcmco0]

metirish Mar 20 2014 06:28 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

What will his role actually be? Forgive me, I have not watched or read much about this.

d'Kong76 Mar 20 2014 06:47 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

President of Basketball Operations or something like that. He's the "boss!" During the press conference Dolan was asked about giving up control and he said something like he was willing and grateful to 'not run' the Knicks any longer. We'll see how long that lasts. So, I guess the players as they finish up the season are auditioning to be in Phil's future plans ... let the win streak continue!

metirish Mar 20 2014 07:02 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Thanks, so what experience does he have of building a squadron?, his best teams were built by Jerry Reinsdorf and Jerry Buss?

d'Kong76 Mar 20 2014 07:09 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

No experience, per se ... he got hired because he's Phil Jackson. What experience does a Joe Torre (for example) have to land a big-wig job for MLB? None, but he's Joe Torre.

metirish Mar 20 2014 07:54 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Right, but Torre is not tasked with trying to drag a perennial loser back to the top of the heap. Will Jackson now control the Knicks draft choices?, such as they are after all. I am just skeptical that this is just another dumb move by Dolan.

d'Kong76 Mar 20 2014 08:12 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I not debating it, it is what it is. I'm not, and haven't jumped through hoops over the whole idea. It's time to try something new, and this is pretty damn new and I'm hopeful it will help.

Nymr83 Mar 20 2014 09:47 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Meanwhile on the basketball court, the Knicks have finally woken up in what will probably be a case of 'too little too late' with an impressive 7 game win streak. Stat looked l8ke his old self last night for a few minutes... the team still lacks a backcourt though.

Vic Sage Mar 20 2014 09:59 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Yes, Stats has been playing well, but they've been extending his minutes to 25-30m a night, and that's a bomb ready to go off. Also, they don't necessarily lack a "backcourt"... they have shooting guards aplenty (Smith, Shumpert, Hardaway), and they each have their uses. But a PG depth chart of Felton / Prigioni / Murry is their biggest problem and the thing that must be solved if this bunch is ever to move forward. What the Knicks needs is a point guard that can run, break down defenses and hit the open man, then race down court and play effective D (hitting the occasional 3 would be nice, too, but not essential). Ronnnnnnnnnnndo....

Nymr83 Mar 20 2014 11:53 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

When does Raymond Felon go to trial anyway? Does three nba not give suspensions? Goodell would have taken a few games away already.

d'Kong76 Mar 20 2014 08:36 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I forgot about Felton ... he's likely going to see some mandatory jail time unless he has some super-lawyer.

Nymr83 Mar 20 2014 09:22 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

d'Kong76 wrote: I forgot about Felton ... he's likely going to see some mandatory jail time unless he has some super-lawyer. Burress went to jail and he only hurt himself (as opposed to allegedly threatening his wife with the gun). On the other hand, Burress' gun went off in a public place and Felton's didnt. I'm leaning towards Felton deserving more than Burress got.

Frayed Knot Mar 21 2014 06:35 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

I believe the threatening the wife part of it is based on her word alone. What's clear is that she got pissed at him (for whatever reason) and decided to get back at him by ratting him out about the illegal gun he owned. Then, for a kicker she added, 'and yeah he also waved it at me'. I don't claim to know what actually happened but Part A of that is a lot more provable than Part B, and if that's all they get him on it probably puts it below the status of carrying and discharging one (even accidentally) in a public place.

Nymr83 Mar 21 2014 09:11 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Agreed, if they cant prove the threats then he is back to being "below Burress"... and he can also deny ownership though how well that works may depend on how often he showed off the gun to everyone. Im also not sure if the DA still pushes for anyone with an illegal gun to do at least some jail time, that was the policy when burress did it, but i dont know if that has changed.

Nymr83 Mar 24 2014 08:10 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Knicks finally lost a game, right after the Hawks lost too and gave knicks fans a brief glimmer of hope.

Vic Sage Mar 24 2014 12:40 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

maybe this will put to rest this false spring. Despair is only possible where there is hope... kill all hope and eradicate despair.

Nymr83 Mar 25 2014 10:30 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Vic Sage wrote: maybe this will put to rest this false spring. Despair is only possible where there is hope... kill all hope and eradicate despair. Hawks lose their 3rd straight to keep hope alive! Knicks 3 back in the loss column with 12 to play (13 for Atlanta) Meanwhile, Dallas is tied for 8th in the West but would be the 3 seed in the East.

Frayed Knot Mar 25 2014 11:48 AM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Meanwhile, the Sixers have now lost 25 straight (one shy of the all-time league record), have a season-long winning pct worse than that of the '62 Mets, and yet don't even have the worst record in the league!! Milwaukee somehow remains a game and a half behind them.

Nymr83 Mar 31 2014 08:59 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

The Knicks rest the suddenly resurgent Stoudemire tonight figuring this is the easiest game left on the scjedule. It was close for 3 quarters but the Knicks went on a run and are up 10 in the 4th... this team wont go away!

Vic Sage Apr 02 2014 01:44 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

still 1 game back (2 down in the loss column) behind plummeting Atlanta. But they finish the season against playoff teams, while the Hawks are finishing against a weaker schedule. Still, I'm sort of hoping they make it (even though they'll get crushed in an opening series), just to screw Denver out of a lottery pick, but i don't think they'll get it done. In fact, Brooklyn might be the team that keeps them out, with 2 games against them down the stretch. Just to, you know, add an insult to the injury.

d'Kong76 Apr 02 2014 07:32 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Manhattan Knicks spanking the New York Nets tonight.

Nymr83 Apr 02 2014 11:08 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Dont look now, the Knicks are tied with the Hawks, with 2 more games played the Knicks have 1 more win and 1 more loss. The hawks still control their own fate.

d'Kong76 Apr 04 2014 08:04 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Don't look now, but they blew one tonight.

Nymr83 Apr 04 2014 08:36 PM Re: Knicks suck / 2013-2014

Hawks win. The improbable run may be over. Finish steong guys, less ping pong balls for denver every time you win.