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Daniel Murphy

Centerfield Jul 22 2013 08:48 AM

OPS of .692 is not going to cut it from a guy in the lineup for his bat. And even amongst second basemen, he is 13 of out of 18 that qualify. His defense has been much better than expected, but that level of production isn't enough to warrant keeping him as he becomes more expensive. The guy does have a career OPS of .752, which if he bounced back to form would make him 9 out of 18. He has been as good as .810 (2011, albeit shortened season) and that would put him at 6th, and in All-Star contention. He looked great when he came up (OPS of .870 in his first 130 AB) but hasn't come close to matching that level of production since. Interesting call for Sandy to make as he moves forward. I would love to see what Flores can do in the bigs, and if he is as clunky in the field as advertised.

metirish Jul 22 2013 08:58 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

On the radio yesterday Josh was trying to make a comparison with Wayne Garrett ,I think his point was , Murphy is a guy fans look at and wish they had someone else and before you know it he's here a decade.....Howie kind of brushed it off with a " yeah but defense is not something you ever worried about with Garrett". Keith loves Murphy doesn't he? "pencil Murph in for every game yyybbb".

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 22 2013 09:00 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

Muffy pulled the same shit last year, becoming a crappy singles hitter for a period of about 5 or 6 weeks, before going back to being the regular kind of doubles hitter that he can be. He's an interesting case. I think he could be traded, if there's a team looking for a 2Bman out there. OTOH, he's really become a Met, and like a lot of our guys, probably won't bring a whole lot back in a deal.

Edgy MD Jul 22 2013 09:26 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

Find a team that could use a lefthanded hitter that plays first, second or third or can come off the bench for a pinch hit. I'm sure somebody is out there. It would be seemingly a Sandy move to trade Murphy while everybody's looking at Byrd. I'm not sure what they'll do and I ain't adovacting, but besides Flores, a real option going forward at second is Eric Young.

metirish Jul 22 2013 09:27 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

In that role he would probably be a good pick up for a team like St. Louis.....probably knock in the winning run in the WS.

Edgy MD Jul 22 2013 09:39 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

I was thinking the Dodgers, who are old, uninspiring, and righthanded at second and third, with Mark Ellis and Juan Uribe. Jerry Hairston and Nick Punto are leading them in pinch-hit appearances and Don Mattingly will tell you, neither of them are Don Mattingly. And speaking of Don Mattingly, as a lefthanded hitting contact hitter who goes to all fields and hails from North Florida, Murphy is probably Mattingly's cup of tea. I bet he scouted him for the Yankees and spooged all over his report.

Frayed Knot Jul 22 2013 10:12 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

The weird thing about Murphy is that conventional wisdom from a couple years ago was that if he could ever prove to be able to handle 2nd base defensively he would, at worst, be an above average player for a decent amount of time. The hang-up was that many (including me) assumed that the required defensive skill would never appear. And now it turns out that, while the defense is good enough, it's the offense that isn't.

Centerfield Jul 22 2013 10:17 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

Frayed Knot wrote: The weird thing about Murphy is that conventional wisdom from a couple years ago was that if he could ever prove to be able to handle 2nd base defensively he would, at worst, be an above average player for a decent amount of time. The hang-up was that many (including me) assumed that the required defensive skill would never appear. And now it turns out that, while the defense is good enough, it's the offense that isn't. Exactly this. And he's getting worse. What do we do? This situation is even more complicated because Murphy is just one a few question marks that Alderson has to figure out. (Murphy, Davis, Duda, Valdespin)

Edgy MD Jul 22 2013 10:31 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

Oh, I don't think there's any figuring out with Valdespin. Any more than, say, Greg Burke. Last year, he was a fringey player with the talent to be more than that and the makeup to be less. At the beginning of this year, he was the same. Right now, he still is. Such guys come and go. The fringe is there for a reason. His future's in his hands, more than Alderson's.

Frayed Knot Jul 22 2013 11:25 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

The other thing about Murph is how his walk rate is falling. It was never high to begin with, but in the minors his walk rate (OBA - BA) over 1,100+ PAs was .061 - just slightly below the norm of around .065-.070 In the majors prior to this year through 1,700+ PAs it fell to .047 - below average for sure but not absurdly so This season that gap is just .032 (a rate that's below the career pace for the notoriously free-swinging Pudge Rodriguez) so that, even if he were to hit .300 or more, he'd still have a mediocre at best OBA with not a lot of power.

smg58 Jul 22 2013 01:28 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

He's not more than a couple of good weeks from getting his numbers back up to his career norms, so I wouldn't panic over performance (of course, I've been saying that most of the season at this point). The questions to ask with him are whether or not he's replaceable in-house (I'm fairly certain the answer is yes), and can he get us something worth having. Third base seems to be a more in-demand position right now than second base; I could see the Yankees, Red Sox, and Indians having interest in him at third, but maybe the Dodgers among contending teams would see him as a clear upgrade at second. So I think the answer to the second question depends on whether other teams think they could deal for him today and pencil him in at third tomorrow. He might be easier to move in the offseason.

Centerfield Jul 26 2013 01:48 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

"Hey Centerfield, fuck you."

Zvon Jul 26 2013 01:55 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

lol. perfect picture too.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2013 01:58 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Yeah, it serves us right for trying to decide his fate in the middle of a slump. Or maybe it served him right for slumping right as the trade deadline approached.

Ceetar Jul 26 2013 02:02 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, it serves us right for trying to decide his fate in the middle of a slump. Or maybe it served him right for slumping right as the trade deadline approached. He's been really streaky the last two years. I think we've got a pretty good sense at this point overall, what Daniel is, let's not let the peaks and valleys sway us too much.

seawolf17 Jul 26 2013 02:07 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

I like Murph, but strike while the iron is hot and trade him between games to the Nats for Anthony Rendon and a prospect.

Edgy MD Jul 26 2013 02:17 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Can you remember the last time the Mets made a deal with the opponent between games of a doubleheader? All I can remember is José Cardenal acquired for cash between games of a doubleheader between the Phils and the outfielder-hungry Mets.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 26 2013 02:26 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

seawolf17 wrote: I like Murph, but strike while the iron is hot and trade him between games to the Nats for Anthony Rendon and a prospect. LoL. Throw in Lagares for Harper.

Centerfield Jul 26 2013 02:33 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Centerfield wrote: "Hey Centerfield, fuck you." "Oh, and in case you missed that, fuck you again."

vtmet Jul 26 2013 07:35 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Does anyone know details of when he's made his errors? it seems like he was playing relatively decent 2B defense until they put him at 1st for a few games, and then has made a plethora of errors since returning to 2nd (but I have no breakdown of his defensive breakdowns)...

Ceetar Jul 26 2013 07:38 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

vtmet wrote: Does anyone know details of when he's made his errors? it seems like he was playing relatively decent 2B defense until they put him at 1st for a few games, and then has made a plethora of errors since returning to 2nd (but I have no breakdown of his defensive breakdowns)... he's occasionally made the error all year long, don't think it was more or less before or after the couple of games over there. Just regular error stuff though, overthrows mostly. Nothing catastrophic like.

Frayed Knot Jul 26 2013 08:07 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

vtmet wrote: Does anyone know details of when he's made his errors? it seems like he was playing relatively decent 2B defense until they put him at 1st for a few games, and then has made a plethora of errors since returning to 2nd (but I have no breakdown of his defensive breakdowns)... I think you're searching for a pattern which isn't there. Besides, he started a string of six games at 1B about six or seven weeks ago. If the brief trial at a different position back then were in fact causing his errors ever since and up to now then he'd be essentially useless as a defensive player.

vtmet Jul 26 2013 08:07 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

15 errors just seems like a lot for this point of the season for a 2nd baseman...and his error totals didn't seem that bad about 5 or 6 weeks ago...

Ceetar Jul 26 2013 08:10 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

vtmet wrote: 15 errors just seems like a lot for this point of the season for a 2nd baseman...and his error totals didn't seem that bad about 5 or 6 weeks ago... It's a wee bit high, but errors aren't real predictive of how good a guy is defensively. I'm not sure I'd classify Murphy as "good" but perhaps "Above average"?

Nymr83 Jul 26 2013 08:18 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Ceetar wrote: vtmet wrote: 15 errors just seems like a lot for this point of the season for a 2nd baseman...and his error totals didn't seem that bad about 5 or 6 weeks ago... It's a wee bit high, but errors aren't real predictive of how good a guy is defensively. I'm not sure I'd classify Murphy as "good" but perhaps "Above average"? I'd say "somewhat below-average". Nobody really seems to agree on defensive stats, but all of them say he costs runs at baseballreference.

Ceetar Jul 26 2013 08:28 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Nymr83 wrote: Ceetar wrote: vtmet wrote: 15 errors just seems like a lot for this point of the season for a 2nd baseman...and his error totals didn't seem that bad about 5 or 6 weeks ago... It's a wee bit high, but errors aren't real predictive of how good a guy is defensively. I'm not sure I'd classify Murphy as "good" but perhaps "Above average"? I'd say "somewhat below-average". Nobody really seems to agree on defensive stats, but all of them say he costs runs at baseballreference. Well, he could still be slightly above average and cost them runs, depending. ;-) I think defensive stats are a little too negative across the board usually. Fangraphs gives him a 1.1 UZR/150 which is good for 12/19 of qualifying. Only 19? hmm. That's slightly below average although 1.1 implies more good than bad. If you lower the threshold to 300 innings, he's 19/35. He's above 0 in terms of double plays and range, but negative on errors. I guess it really depends on what you're looking for it. He's certainly doing a good enough job for the Mets. He's 9/16 of qualified hitters on Fangraphs in WAR. I mean, if you want to pay Cano..I don't think the Mets are in that position to pay that type of free agent starting in 2014.. Otherwise Murphy is probably the most efficient guy, payroll/roster adjustment wise, they can get.

vtmet Jul 27 2013 08:01 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

I find some of those defensive metrics to be head scratchers...according to fangraphs defensive stats, Tejada is a better shortstop than "Q"...but when you watch both play, "Q" is obviously the better shortstop...

Ceetar Jul 27 2013 08:25 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

vtmet wrote: I find some of those defensive metrics to be head scratchers...according to fangraphs defensive stats, Tejada is a better shortstop than "Q"...but when you watch both play, "Q" is obviously the better shortstop... Not sure I'd say that. This year, sure, overall? nah.

smg58 Jul 27 2013 08:35 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

smg58 wrote: He's not more than a couple of good weeks from getting his numbers back up to his career norms, so I wouldn't panic over performance (of course, I've been saying that most of the season at this point). After yesterday, he's up to .286/.320/.421, as opposed to his career line of .290/.335/.426. That only took a couple of days.

vtmet Jul 27 2013 11:39 AM Re: Daniel Murphy

Ceetar wrote: vtmet wrote: I find some of those defensive metrics to be head scratchers...according to fangraphs defensive stats, Tejada is a better shortstop than "Q"...but when you watch both play, "Q" is obviously the better shortstop... Not sure I'd say that. This year, sure, overall? nah. I've never been impressed with Tejada as a shortstop...he's an ok 2nd baseman or utility guy, but not really a decent MLB shortstop...

Nymr83 Jul 27 2013 01:26 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

vtmet wrote: vtmet wrote: I find some of those defensive metrics to be head scratchers...according to fangraphs defensive stats, Tejada is a better shortstop than "Q"...but when you watch both play, "Q" is obviously the better shortstop... Not sure I'd say that. This year, sure, overall? nah. I've never been impressed with Tejada as a shortstop...he's an ok 2nd baseman or utility guy, but not really a decent MLB shortstop... Is Q really better, or is this the "Jeter problem"... A guy who doesn't throw the ball away so you don't notice the balls he never even gets to. Tejada has made his errors, but does he also make more plays?

Edgy MD Jul 27 2013 08:56 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

I wouldn't guess Quintanilla's better at all. He's got the backup quarterback glow, but that's about it.

vtmet Jul 27 2013 08:59 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

I wasn't comparing Q to Mark Belanger or Ozzie Smith, I was comparing him to Tejada (who has little range to his backhand side, and doesn't have the arm to get the ball there even if he does)...

Edgy MD Jul 27 2013 10:00 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Range, feet, glove, and arm --- I consider him to generally have a superior package to Quintanilla. Q's got veteran's aplomb, so his lows aren't as low, but neither are his highs as high.

bmfc1 Aug 17 2013 05:02 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Just asking: the Braves are looking for a 2B, the Mets are looking for a place to play Flores, and the Mets system is short on position players, so would you trade Murphy to the Braves for a top prospect? I looked at the Braves minor leaguers and this name came up among OFers: Joey Terdoslavich http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... rdos001jos http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/7/5 ... s-promoted

Zvon Aug 17 2013 05:29 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

bmfc1 wrote: Just asking: the Braves are looking for a 2B, the Mets are looking for a place to play Flores, and the Mets system is short on position players, so would you trade Murphy to the Braves for a top prospect? I looked at the Braves minor leaguers and this name came up among OFers: Joey Terdoslavich http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... rdos001jos http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/7/5 ... s-promoted You think we could get a top prospect for Murphy? I like Joey Terdoslavich. And we could have all kinds of fun with that name. He is technically a switch-hitter but is much more effective from the left side (.992 OPS this year) than the right (.686). Why is the word "technically" in that sentence? Has he given up on switch hitting?

Frayed Knot Aug 17 2013 05:34 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Except that the Braves really only need a 2B until Uggla comes back. He had laser eye surgery which would usually be done in the off-season but they're so far ahead in the division that they decided he could afford the elective surgery now and still be back in September. Would I trade Murphy for a "top prospect"? ... Sure!!! Do I think they'll give us one for him? ... No. Terdoslavich has been up for a time this year although I don't think he's generally considered top prospect material. For updates on Braves higher minor league guys see here oe: And if you were the Braves would you trade for Murphy with this on your farm? (#7 from the linked list) Tommy La Stella, 2B -- Hitting .355/.440/.476 in 49 games* between High-A and Double-A, mostly at the higher level. All he does is hit and hit and hit; career .302/.404/.494 hitter**. Scouting reports are muted due to questions about his defense, but the guy rakes and I think his glove is underrated. Excellent strike zone judgment too. * now .360/.445/.498 in 73 games ** now .327/.410/.499

batmagadanleadoff Aug 17 2013 05:47 PM Re: Daniel Murphy

Frayed Knot wrote: And if you were the Braves would you trade for Murphy with this on your farm? (#7 from the linked list) Tommy La Stella, 2B -- Hitting .355/.440/.476 in 49 games* between High-A and Double-A, mostly at the higher level. All he does is hit and hit and hit; career .302/.404/.494 hitter**. Scouting reports are muted due to questions about his defense, but the guy rakes and I think his glove is underrated. Excellent strike zone judgment too. * now .360/.445/.498 in 73 games ** now .327/.410/.499 It's like switching light bulbs with that franchise. One burns out and they pop another one right back in.