Master Index of Archived Threads


Not Guilty

Edgy MD Jul 13 2013 08:06 PM

George Zimmerman walks.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 13 2013 08:10 PM Re: Not Guilty

I don't pretend to know what really happened here but don't go around pretending to be a cop.

Edgy MD Jul 13 2013 08:11 PM Re: Not Guilty

It pretty much adds up to that. Good time to stay off social media/streets of major cities.

Frayed Knot Jul 13 2013 08:12 PM Re: Not Guilty

It's the way I expected it to end because I thought a murder charge would be almost impossible to prove. And, of course, the problem with cases like this is that no one (except one) will ever know just exactly what happened.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 13 2013 08:13 PM Re: Not Guilty

Floridian prosecutors seem to be operating at a 2008-bullpen-y baseline level of efficacy, don't they? No manslaughter, even? Good Lord.

Zvon Jul 13 2013 08:18 PM Re: Not Guilty

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: No manslaughter, even? Good Lord. This^

Nymr83 Jul 13 2013 08:43 PM Re: Not Guilty

I don't see that at all. You have to either believe the self-defense claim or else its murder. I don't see a version of the facts that add up to manslaughter. I'm more amazed (annoyed?) At the number of people expressing their outrage on facebook/twitter who probably know nothing about the case beyond reading a slanted article or two from some news outlet. From what I've read, I'm really not sure what happened, and from the trial covergae it sure seems like the prosecutors did a piss-poor job. Or maybe they just had very little to work with? Remember, there was an earlier decision not to charge that what was essentially overruled politically.

Frayed Knot Jul 13 2013 08:52 PM Re: Not Guilty

Depends on how it's defined in the state I suppose. I can see a scenario where the jury decides that the aggressive and reckless actions of Zimmerman were enough to have led to the kid's death even if it wasn't what Zim set out to do.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 13 2013 09:27 PM Re: Not Guilty

Nymr83 wrote: I don't see that at all. You have to either believe the self-defense claim or else its murder. I don't see a version of the facts that add up to manslaughter. One version: 1) Zimmerman espies Martin, and calls 911. 2) Zimmerman, after expressing concern to 911 operator, pursues Martin and initiates confrontation/physical contact. 3) Martin reacts aggressively to physical contact. 4) Zimmerman, while being beaten by Martin, pulls gun and shoots. If you believe that chain of events, it's essentially murder with a big, honking mitigating factor-- or voluntary manslaughter-- no?

Chad Ochoseis Jul 13 2013 10:05 PM Re: Not Guilty

People I know who were thinking "guilty" tended to go with manslaughter using that logic. Or just went with the reasoning that Zimmerman started the chain of events by following Martin even after police asked him to stay in his car, and was therefore guilty of manslaughter. Following someone on public property isn't illegal, and it's never been clear to me who initiated physical contact. The prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is an asshole. But there's no felony in that.

Ashie62 Jul 13 2013 10:41 PM Re: Not Guilty

The jury has spoken...

Nymr83 Jul 14 2013 04:35 PM Re: Not Guilty

Someone in the Florida DA's office has been fired for whistle-blowing in what may become its own scandal... the employee testified that the DA failed to turn over to the defense text messages and pictures from Martin's phone that likely had to be provided under discovery rules.

Kong76 Jul 14 2013 05:12 PM Re: Not Guilty

Innocent until proven guilty ... and the jury didn't buy the prosecution's case I guess. It's a sad story.

Edgy MD Jul 15 2013 06:17 AM Re: Not Guilty

I'm getting lot of calls on social media for Florida to be expelled from the union.

metirish Jul 15 2013 06:33 AM Re: Not Guilty

A lot of the people that are angry were the ones deploring that this case go before a jury, it did and they don't care for the verdict. The defense presented a clear and compelling case for self defense and a jury agrees with that, the prosecution it seemed were over matched(O'Mara said after that the prosecution thought they were dealing with a couple of low level defense guys, he clearly didn't like them) Now word is that Holder under pressure from the NAACP will look at this case again. O'Mara said after the verdict that they will vigorously fight any civil case. The whole thing stinks, I didn't read the article but people are posting about a black woman in Florida getting 20 years for firing warning shots, not related to this......the system is unfair.

Mets – Willets Point Jul 15 2013 07:12 AM Re: Not Guilty

Edgy MD wrote: I'm getting lot of calls on social media for Florida to be expelled from the union.

Nymr83 Jul 16 2013 06:05 AM Re: Not Guilty

Just saw a tweet that actually made me laugh out loud at the irony... Kim Kardashian tweeted "no justice", her father was OJ's lawyer.

metirish Jul 16 2013 06:40 AM Re: Not Guilty

Nymr83 wrote: Just saw a tweet that actually made me laugh out loud at the irony... Kim Kardashian tweeted "no justice", her father was OJ's lawyer. now, that's funny....see, and there is part of the problem, people screaming "no justice" but they really have no clue about the actual case and are just following along....

Edgy MD Jul 16 2013 07:37 AM Re: Not Guilty

Nymr83 wrote: Just saw a tweet that actually made me laugh out loud at the irony... Kim Kardashian tweeted "no justice", her father was OJ's lawyer. Well, one of eight or 10, anyhow.

Mets – Willets Point Jul 16 2013 07:40 AM Re: Not Guilty

OJ Simpson found not guilty of murder in a case where there was reasonable doubt that he had actually committed the crime. WHITE PEOPLE: "The jury is stupid! We know he's a murderer! Regardless of what the jury says OJ is guilty!" George Zimmerman found not guilty of murder in a case where it is indisputable that he stalked an unarmed teenager, initiated a fight, and was responsible for the death of that child by gunshot. WHITE PEOPLE: "Look at all the people who've suddenly got law degrees! Don't they know how trial by jury works? The jury knows better than these amateurs!"

Edgy MD Jul 16 2013 07:45 AM Re: Not Guilty

White people don't speak with one voice. Let's not go there.

Kong76 Jul 16 2013 09:20 AM Re: Not Guilty

Is there anyone else here that thinks he was an indisputable stalker?

Nymr83 Jul 16 2013 10:56 AM Re: Not Guilty

Mets – Willets Point wrote: OJ Simpson found not guilty of murder in a case where there was reasonable doubt that he had actually committed the crime. WHITE PEOPLE: "The jury is stupid! We know he's a murderer! Regardless of what the jury says OJ is guilty!" George Zimmerman found not guilty of murder in a case where it is indisputable that he stalked an unarmed teenager, initiated a fight, and was responsible for the death of that child by gunshot. WHITE PEOPLE: "Look at all the people who've suddenly got law degrees! Don't they know how trial by jury works? The jury knows better than these amateurs!" two entirely different cases. "Who did it" type murders are generally easier than "he said/she said" cases when it comes to reasonable doubt. What they surely had in common: bungled prosecution that didn't do a good job meeting the "reasonable doubt" standard. Both juries may have correctly decided based on the evidence before them, which is their job. Even if it's not the whole /true story. None of that changes the irony of the relative of an OK lawyer complaining about the verdict here.

Nymr83 Jul 16 2013 11:03 AM Re: Not Guilty

Kong76 wrote: Is there anyone else here that thinks he was an indisputable stalker? You would need a VERY loose definition of stalking to say "indisputable" I think it likely he followed Martin longer than a reasonable person should have, but I don't think there is a law against following an unfamiliar person in your neighborhood and asking them what they are doing... and they aren't obligated to answer. But from all the coverage I can't tell who broke the law first (who made the first physical aggression) and if the jury couldn't either then they need to decide not guilty. I'm thinking this could still go the OJ way in a civil case... preponderance of the evidence standard.

metsmarathon Jul 16 2013 11:14 AM Re: Not Guilty

i think that, ultimately, the jury got the law right. unfortunately, the law is wrong. zimmerman did everything wrong, stalked an innocent teen, instigated a confrontation, lost the ensuing fight, and was free by florida law to shoot to kill. the floria law allows that, simply for fearing his life in a fight with an innocent kid that he caused to happen, he's allowed to shoot to kill, and it's up to the prosecution to show that there was no possible way he could have felt his life or body was in danger, or that he wasn't somehow defending himself. all that really matters is that he, george zimmerman, felt bodily threatened (not even mortally threatened, per my understanding) and he is permitted to kill another person. and feeling bodily threatened and responding with lethal force would then take away the possibility of a manslaughter charge. as a result of this verdict, it is shown, essentially, that in order to legally kill another person, all you really have to do is yell, "it's coming right for us!"

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 16 2013 11:57 AM Re: Not Guilty

Or, y'know, not like the way somebody looks. For some reason.