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New stadium issues

Bret Sabermetric Dec 18 2005 10:54 AM

Not the Stadium name (we've been through that) but some interesting and desirable features which don't cost a whole lot but which the Wilpons won't go for anyway in all probability. I'm looking for ideas that have a Metly quality, in addition to being virtuous in themselves. One thing I would suggest would be a greatly expanded tomato patch our behind the fences--not simply a bit of ground where Piggy could grow a few plants, but a whole tomato patch. Another idea would be a serious display of Mets' memorabiia--not rare or valuable stuff but things of major interest to hard core Mets fans, like a wall displaying photos of all the signs that Karl Ehrhardt used to flash, This needn't take up space, because it could be mounted (behind protective glass) along the escalators or just inside the turnstiles. In effect, the unused space inside the stadium but outside of the seating area could be used a exhibition space.

KC Dec 18 2005 10:58 AM

I haven't been following, but is the plan still to do that Ebbets Field look alike with a retractable dome? I'd like to see the Mets embrace their own history more than Brooklyn's.

TheOldMole Dec 18 2005 03:02 PM

What? A replica of Shea Stadium? I like the Ebbets Field idea. It was the perfect ballpark.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 18 2005 03:13 PM

I don't. Enough with the early 20th Century. Let's have a ballpark for the 21st Century.

MFS62 Dec 18 2005 03:43 PM

OPACY and the Jake are very modern ballparks with historic feels to them. If they want to build something that reminds all of Ebbets Fierld, but with all the modern amenities, more power to them. I don't think that just because it would be a paean to Ebbets Field means they're going to spend all that money to build a slum. Later

KC Dec 18 2005 03:47 PM

>>>What? A replica of Shea Stadium? I like the Ebbets Field idea. It was the perfect ballpark.<<< No, I don't want a cookie cutter stadium like Shea - but that should be ob- vious. The DODGERS played at Ebbets, not the Mets. Sure, the Mets are an offspring of the Dodgers and Giants and share their colors - but they're not the Dodgers. Gimme some of the stuff like Bret initially posted and some orange and blue sheet metal boxes on the outside. No bricks from Sullivan Place, thank you.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 18 2005 04:07 PM

I guess what I don't understand is why baseball, not just the Mets, don't turn that whole area into a kind of museum space. They don't have to heat it, or anything right? They could open the concessions the morning of the game, and let people in at 9:30 for a 1 P.M. start, and have all sorts of Cooperstown type exhibitions, related to the the Mets' history, and feature special guests (The Red Sox had a separate area for autographs--one day when I was in Fenway, they simply announced that Frank Malzone and Johnny Pesky would be signing autographs--for free!--in that area from 2 to 3:30 or some such.) You could invite experts, like the Honorable John J. Dickshot, out to give a talk on the Terrible Seaver Trade of 1977, held out in the picnic area from 11:30 to noon. You could schedule rare videos to be shown at specific times on specific humongo monitors. The Rockies have this wonderful plaza (I'm sure I';ve described it) that tempts you (tempts me anyway) to cruise throughout the stadium all game long, and they have batting cages for the kiddies, uniform displays, all that good stuff. Is it a space issue? Is it that hard to purchase an extra chopshop to two to provide the kind of space this would require? It seems positively stupid not to go in this direction. I really don't get it.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 18 2005 04:22 PM

Now I'm getting a little tomato-centric. Once or twice a year, we invite amateur chefs out to Shea to compete in a tomato-sauce making contest. We set up a little table with pans and knives and stuff out in the Tomato Jungle, and give them a few hours to prepare their sauce (we provide the fresh tomatoes, of course), then instead of that fucking Airplanes-into-the-WTC contest or some dumb shit, we have fans selected by their random ticket numbers judge the various sauces, all on Diamond vision between innings 5 and 6. Maybe on Italian Night? Yummmm. Everybody gets to sample on the way out of the stadium.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 18 2005 05:21 PM

Also, this isn't stadium -related, but just general PR related; does anyone understand why MLB team have a hostile-to-neutral stance towards fans' websites in general? If I was Fred Wilpon, I would be down on my hands and knees and forehead thanking God Amighty and Allah and Yahweh for creating Yancy and Johnny D. and KC and every fan who sinks his time and money and talent into running a website--for free, mind you!--that keeps the Mets prominently in the minds of thousands and thousands of Fred's paying customers. If he wanted to compensate these guys fairly for what they do for him, he'd be talking a shipload of money, so you wonder why he doesn't WANT at the least to have a website of the week contest, where they distribute names of various Mets websites, ask fans to look 'em over, vote on the one they think is best, have a little ceremony the first day of each homestand, present the winner with a 25 dollar plaque at home plate, comp them for the night, etc. WTF is wrong with these people?

Johnny Dickshot Dec 18 2005 05:41 PM

The website flaps relate to the fact that MLB feels it can make a huge steaming pile of money on the web, which it can through stuff like video, and that $$ is shared by all teams so it's become an important component of revenue generation & sharing for the clubs. You'll remember in 98 or 99, they took over all the team-operated websites. They're overly protective of it no doubt but on the plus side they're trying to do some cool things with it (proprietary stat & video collection, etc etc, which we dumb fans might all one day pay for) and when all is said and done might be one of the positive things they say about the Selig administration.

KC Dec 18 2005 05:43 PM

It's not Wilpon, it's MLB - in retro, I don't blame them one bit. The Mets sites that survived did so by toning down the use of MLB property. I really would have been pissed off enough to wage a media jihad if MBTN and UMDB were handed cease and disist orders. I think the MLB lawyers (or their staff) have been pretty fair with us fans.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 18 2005 05:49 PM

I do understand the problem they had with Mets Online. Both the name, and the look and feel, did make it appear to be an "official" site. They certainly could have been nicer about it, though. I believe they offered Bryan a list of changes that would make Mets Online acceptable to them, but he felt it would have compromised his vision of the site, and preferred to shut it down. Around the time of that, I did change the UMDB logo. It originally had the Mets script in it. (You can still see it on the graphic link on MBTN.) There's now a plain "chalkdust" logo which looks anything but official. I liked the other one better, but wanted to avert a potential hassle.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 18 2005 06:02 PM

I have all that, and thanks for the elucidation, but I still think, after MLB finishes clarifying what the rules are on their logos and other crap that doesn't account for one-half of one percent of the appeal of your sites, you're still going to do what you do that helps Fred's business immeasurably. It's not like you provide competition for MLB's website, is it? Or that anyone over the age of fetus ever confused your sites with the official Mets site? Which of you has some sort of problem with being honored at home plate for the website of the week, and how much skin comes off Fred's ass to give you your fifteen seconds of fame and a plaque and tix for the night? In a way this part of the discussion resembles the old-time player's argument: "Heck, I loves to play ball, and it's great that Mister Bossman pays me anythang at all. Exploited? Shee-yit, I'm just having myself the best fun there is..."

Johnny Dickshot Dec 18 2005 06:03 PM

Ironically, you can see a crappy version of the MBTN logo at UMDB. I believe I created that during a fontless period.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 18 2005 06:13 PM

I mean, take me and the CPF, for example. I think about the Mets, say, 5x times week, as compared to the 1 or 2x timesI would if I weren't posting here. Could Fred get that kind of advertising if he were to double his ad budget? As far as I'm concerned, I actively try to ignore the subway posters and the TV ads, and I treat them like noise. But the CPf gets me sinking hours of my life into thinking about the Mets? Does Edgy profit from my hours of devotion? Not a bit. Does Fred? I've actually bought tix to games (not recently) because I was interested in something that came up on CPF or because I wanted to meet someone I knew from the CPF, that I wouldn't have bought otherwise. Does Edgy get a cut from that ticket business? Does Fred? I'm just saying, it would be smart business for him to go from hostile/neutral territory to actively encouraging you guys, plugging your sites on Diamondvision, writing you up in the Scorecards, etc. sometimes I think if you guys offered to sweep up a section of the stadium for three hours after a game, he'd be handing out injunctions against your trespassing after hours.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 18 2005 07:58 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: I'm just saying, it would be smart business for him to go from hostile/neutral territory to actively encouraging you guys, plugging your sites on Diamondvision, writing you up in the Scorecards, etc. sometimes I think if you guys offered to sweep up a section of the stadium for three hours after a game, he'd be handing out injunctions against your trespassing after hours. You make a good point. I know I'd be flattered by a UMDB URL being posted on the scoreboard at Shea between innings, and it would have some tangible but hard to quantify benefit for the Mets as well. As for a home-plate ceremony, I think I'd graciously decline. I personally don't crave or want the spotlight. But it is a nice idea.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 18 2005 08:19 PM

You could always find a glory-hog like me to pretend to be you and throw both fists in the air as 30,000 fans cheer.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 18 2005 08:56 PM

You got a deal.

metsmarathon Dec 18 2005 10:21 PM

i say the mets license my "Pinball Alley" from the build-a-stadium thread, provided i fix its flaws, of course! the open spaces thing, of course, makes entirely too much sense for a smart team not to do it.

Zvon Dec 18 2005 10:44 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: you wonder why he doesn't WANT at the least to have a website of the week contest, where they distribute names of various Mets websites, ask fans to look 'em over, vote on the one they think is best, have a little ceremony the first day of each homestand, present the winner with a 25 dollar plaque at home plate, comp them for the night, etc. I think this is a great idea that is just a little ahead of its time. It would be nice if it was the Mets that were on the edge of appreciating things like fan sites and showing it. Some team will, in some sport, and it will catch on and be,..... dare i say...... a new recognized source of fan expression, the way banner day once was. As far as logos and all that, the Mets must just love my 2002 baseball card set. I utilized two of their logos on every player card, lol. If they ever knew the time and work I put into that set, they'd realize what kind of fan I am. They couldnt have paid me enough. I think I lost track of what this thread was intended to be about, because my 1st thought while reading was that they have to have some place or area in the new stadium called Kiners Korner. I meant to label that on my DRAW A STADIUM submission, but never labeled anything. The Mets should definately incorperate their history into a new stadium in any way possible. Every way possible. I dont like the last Met stadium that was proposed--the Ebbetts like one with the roof. Im not against the new 'old style' lookin ones. I just think the Mets should come up something thats individually them. When Shea came along it was really a new and novel looking type of stadium. It was cutting edge. All the cookie cutter stadiums came after that. Somehow, I think they should do that again. Come up with something totally unique and novel. And then everyone can copy that for the next 20 years or so.

Willets Point Dec 19 2005 08:09 AM

I think another aspect of Tomato Night would be rotten tomato throwing contest. 10 fans selected randomly to throw from home plate toward a target on the mound with free tickets given to the most accurate splat.

ScarletKnight41 Dec 19 2005 09:11 AM

I'm waiting for Johnny Lunchbucket givaway night.

Spacemans Bong Dec 19 2005 05:57 PM

TheOldMole wrote: What? A replica of Shea Stadium? I like the Ebbets Field idea. It was the perfect ballpark. Sure, if you're a hopeless romantic. 350 foot power alleys, a 380 ft CF and decrepit facilities aren't my idea of perfection however. People were totally willling to blow Ebbets Field up if it kept the Dodgers in Brooklyn.

Frayed Knot Dec 19 2005 11:07 PM

The only aspect of Ebbets Field that the design for the new place was going to "copy" was the outside look of it's exterior brick architecture. They were never planning on building a replica of the old field or recreating it's dimensions.