Master Index of Archived Threads


The Hyperloop

Benjamin Grimm Aug 13 2013 09:16 AM

I don't know how likely this is to ever become reality, but I love that someone is thinking outside the box about transportation in America. Elon Musk's Hyperloop: San Francisco to Los Angeles in 30 Minutes? Billionaire Inventor Unveils Plans for Futuristic Solar-Powered Vehicle By EVELYN M. RUSLI and TED MANN SAN FRANCISCO -- Billionaire inventor Elon Musk unveiled plans Monday for what he has dubbed the Hyperloop, a futuristic solar-powered vehicle that promises to zip people between cities at near sonic speeds. Whether one ever gets built is a separate question. In a first draft of his plan posted online, 42-year-old Mr. Musk outlined how such a high-speed service could work. Unlike traditional trains, the Hyperloop would feature a tube suspended aboveground on top of pylons. Inside the tube, pods with electric compressor fans would move back and forth in a low pressure environment, gliding atop a cushion of air. Mr. Musk said he was interested in building a prototype. In layman's terms, Mr. Musk has described his designs as equal parts Concorde, rail gun and air hockey table. He estimates a California Hyperloop, which could travel between San Francisco and Los Angeles in 30 minutes, would cost about $6 billion to $10 billion to build. Mr. Musk, often called Silicon Valley's real-life version of superhero inventor Tony Stark, is known for tackling pie-in-the-sky ideas. After working at PayPal, the online payments pioneer, he founded electric car maker Tesla Motors Inc. TSLA -0.86% and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., or SpaceX, the first private company to dock at the international space station. Although Mr. Musk, who pulled all-nighters drafting the Hyperloop plan, said he didn't want to start another company, he said he was committed to the idea and willing to build a prototype. Mr. Musk said engineers from Tesla and SpaceX helped design the initial draft for the Hyperloop. "I'm somewhat tempted to make at least a demonstration prototype," said Mr. Musk during a conference call on Monday. "I've come around on my thinking here, maybe I could just do the beginning bit." He estimates that he could build a prototype in three to four years. Mr. Musk's plans call for a pair of steel tubes running side by side on elevated pylons. Inside the tubes, air compressors would create a low-pressure environment, though not a vacuum, which would be harder to maintain over long distances. Inside the tubes, capsules would be propelled forward by an electric induction motor, Mr. Musk said, an invention he said dated to the days of electricity pioneer Nikola Tesla. In his system, electric pulses travel the length of the tubes; a magnetized blade on the base of each pod would be propelled forward by the pulses of energy, which Mr. Musk said could come from solar panels on the tops of the tubes. Pods would travel at about 760 miles an hour. He said it is ideal for cities less than 900 miles apart; for further distances, supersonic planes are more efficient, he said. Some transportation experts have reacted with skepticism to the Hyperloop hype. "The possibility of this going mainstream is likely low due to the need for costly greenfield infrastructure," said Richard Barone, the director of transportation programs at the Regional Plan Association in New York. Similar concepts have emerged over recent decades, Mr. Barone said, citing examples including magnetic levitation trains. Technologies like high-speed versions of conventional train systems "tend to be more successful, because they build off or enhance existing infrastructure," Mr. Barone said in an email message. A technology like the hyperloop could also be a tough fit in a built-up region because of the need to locate the tubes and pylons, he said. In a conference call, Mr. Musk said the hyperloop would require significantly less right of way than a high-speed rail system in California that will soon begin construction -- and cost less money. In a document depicting the system, Mr. Musk said the system could largely track the route of Interstate 5, traveling in the median to cut down on property acquisition costs. "This is designed to be super-light, and trains are extremely heavy," Mr. Musk said. The California High-Speed Rail Authority is at work on a planned 520-mile high speed train network linking San Francisco and Los Angeles. The network is projected to eventually grow to 800 miles, stretching from San Diego north to Sacramento by 2029. That network would move trains at speeds of more than 200 miles an hour, far faster than any other trains in operation in the U.S., and would move passengers from Los Angeles to the San Francisco Bay area in less than three hours, the authority says. But the project, at a projected $68.4 billion, would be one of the most expensive transportation infrastructure projects in the country's history, a Government Accountability Office report said in March.

Ceetar Aug 13 2013 09:22 AM Re: The Hyperloop

Interesting indeed. Although I wonder if something like the hyperloop might be better not from a City to City standpoint, but from a City to rural area standpoint. Imagine if you could live in the Poconos for instance, but still commute into Manhattan? (imagining a tube along I80 the way the article mentions I5)

Benjamin Grimm Aug 13 2013 09:38 AM Re: The Hyperloop

There's probably not as much demand for that. It would be cool if they could do New York to Boston, for example. At 760 MPH, the trip would take only 17 minutes!

Mets – Willets Point Aug 13 2013 09:39 AM Re: The Hyperloop

The rural area would not remain rural for long under those conditions. Or the cost of operating and maintaining a hyperloop would not be practical for serving a low-density area.

Ceetar Aug 13 2013 10:01 AM Re: The Hyperloop

Mets – Willets Point wrote: The rural area would not remain rural for long under those conditions. Or the cost of operating and maintaining a hyperloop would not be practical for serving a low-density area. well sure, it'd be a part of something bigger. And maybe help reduce NYC housing prices to more reasonable levels? Or perhaps the opposite. Perhaps a nexus of business somewhere out there where you could hyperloop from NYC, Philly, Pittsburgh, Ohio, etc.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 13 2013 10:12 AM Re: The Hyperloop

Imagine Pittsburgh being within commuting distance of New York? It would be 29 minutes on the Hyperloop. It would probably take longer to get from Hyperloop Station to your office than it would to get from Pittsburgh to New York.

Ceetar Aug 13 2013 10:18 AM Re: The Hyperloop

how about in other places? Can you build giant pillars to go over water like a bridge? Get from London to Paris in a half hour?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 13 2013 10:21 AM Re: The Hyperloop

I just want my flying car, man. Where's my flycar?

batmagadanleadoff Aug 13 2013 10:40 AM Re: The Hyperloop

Or how about NY to LA in 30 seconds? Look it up: it's science, man.

metirish Aug 13 2013 11:22 AM Re: The Hyperloop

I thought this got more attention than it would have but for who was behind it. It's a pipedream and there is nothing wring with that, but feck, NY can't even build a bridge to replace the Tappen Zee. A lot of the infarstructure that was built years ago likely would not be built today due to tighter regulations etc. If Robert Moses were alive today he'd get nothing done.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 13 2013 11:26 AM Re: The Hyperloop

More, from Bloomberg Businessweek: Musk thinks the Hyperloop would avoid many of the land issues because it’s elevated. The tubes would, for the most part, follow I-5, the dreary but direct freeway between L.A. and San Francisco. Farmers would not have swaths of their land blocked by train tracks but could instead access their land between the columns. Musk figures the Hyperloop could be built for $6 billion with people-only pods, or $10 billion for the larger pods capable of holding people and cars. All together, his alternative would be four times as fast as California’s proposed train, at one-10th the cost. Tickets, Musk says, would be “much cheaper” than a plane ride. As for safety? Musk has heard of it. “There’s an emergency brake,” he says. “Generally, though, the safe distance between the pods would be about 5 miles, so you could have about 70 pods between Los Angeles and San Francisco that leave every 30 seconds. It’s like getting a ride on Space Mountain at Disneyland.” Musk imagines that riding on the Hyperloop would be quite pleasant. “It would have less lateral acceleration—which is what tends to make people feel motion sick—than a subway ride, as the pod banks against the tube like an airplane,” he says. “Unlike an airplane, it is not subject to turbulence, so there are no sudden movements. It would feel supersmooth.” The Hyperloop was designed to link cities less than 1,000 miles apart that have high amounts of traffic between them, Musk says. Under 1,000 miles, the Hyperloop could have a nice edge over planes, which need a lot of time to take off and land. “It makes sense for things like L.A. to San Francisco, New York to D.C., New York to Boston,” Musk says. “Over 1,000 miles, the tube cost starts to become prohibitive, and you don’t want tubes every which way. You don’t want to live in Tube Land.” Right? That last bit about "Tube Land" makes me think of a giant Habitrail setup.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 13 2013 11:41 AM Re: The Hyperloop

metirish wrote: I thought this got more attention than it would have but for who was behind it. It's a pipedream and there is nothing wring with that, but feck, NY can't even build a bridge to replace the Tappen Zee. A lot of the infarstructure that was built years ago likely would not be built today due to tighter regulations etc. If Robert Moses were alive today he'd get nothing done. 20, 25 years go, they were talking about a super duper super fast express train from NYC to Albany. One of those monorail type deals.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 13 2013 11:53 AM Re: The Hyperloop

Is there a chance the tube could bend?

Benjamin Grimm Aug 13 2013 11:55 AM Re: The Hyperloop

Do you mean unintentionally? Or by design? I think the tube does not have to be one perfectly straight line, if that's what you're asking.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 13 2013 12:01 PM Re: The Hyperloop

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Is there a chance the tube could bend? Not on your life, my Hindu friend.

Ceetar Aug 13 2013 12:12 PM Re: The Hyperloop

[url]http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha-20130812.pdf It's really neat. I have no faith in government actually doing something this inspired, but it definitely sounds good. The abstract floats $20 one way as a price. dampers in the pylons to help mitigate earthquakes and ground shifting problems.

Mets – Willets Point Aug 13 2013 12:17 PM Re: The Hyperloop

metirish wrote: If Robert Moses were alive today he'd get nothing done. If only he got less "done" when he was alive.

Edgy MD Aug 13 2013 12:37 PM Re: The Hyperloop

I used to have two or three bowls of Hyperloops every Saturday morning as I watched my cartoons.

metirish Aug 13 2013 12:37 PM Re: The Hyperloop

Mets – Willets Point wrote: metirish wrote: If Robert Moses were alive today he'd get nothing done. If only he got less "done" when he was alive. Ha ha, there is certainly that argument too.