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Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Edgy MD Sep 11 2013 03:01 PM

Sticking generally to off-the-field stuff. 1. Capitulated on hats thing. 2. Got in bed with a pyramid scheming tenant. 3. Not gotten out of bed with 1-877-kars-4-kids. ...

batmagadanleadoff Sep 11 2013 03:08 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Edgy MD wrote: Sticking generally to off-the-field stuff. 1. Capitulated on hats thing. 2. Got in bed with a pyriamid scheming tenant. 3. Not gotten out of bed with 1-877-kars-4-kids. ... These are Wilpon things. For example, the Wilpons got in bed with Madoff. The Mets won the pennant in 2000. See?

Edgy MD Sep 11 2013 03:16 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I'm just offering a list. The semantic thing is un-necessary.

Centerfield Sep 11 2013 03:49 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

"You're gonna need a bigger thread..."

Fman99 Sep 11 2013 07:20 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Dedicated the rotunda of their new park to a guy who never played in Queens or for the Mets. Put a big stupid 42 in there as well. Opened the new park without even acknowledging any Mets history.

HahnSolo Sep 11 2013 07:41 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

The Shea Stadium games countdown, by opening it up to a sponsor (anything for a buck!) then letting every Lincoln Mercury salesman in the tri-state area get to peel back a number off the outfield wall.

d'Kong76 Sep 11 2013 07:43 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Putting McFadden's so far from the subway stairs.

Zvon Sep 11 2013 07:51 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 11 2013 09:56 PM

Fman99 wrote: Opened the new park without even acknowledging any Mets history. This is what really irked me. It's not like we don't have some history either. We got the best.

Edgy MD Sep 11 2013 08:41 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

... invested their money and the future of the franchise in an elaborate con scheme

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 11 2013 08:54 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Did almost everything to foster the appearance of doing the right thing, but cut every corner they thought we wouldn't notice. Often guessed wrong as to what the right thing was. Fired Bobby Valentine Were dazzled by Art Howe Hired Omar Minaya Allowed Omar Minaya to remain GM after humiliating himself and the franchise, and saddling the team with one lousy contract after another (Castillo, Bay, Rodriguez, Wagner, Perez, Santana) Removed a portion of the outfield fence before the last game so so to appease a sleazy crook they hired to sell pieces of the demolished stadium they hated back to the fans who loved it. (Just getting started)

batmagadanleadoff Sep 11 2013 09:04 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Edgy MD wrote: ... invested their money and the future of the franchise in an elaborate con scheme .. which, as far as I'm concerned, they knew was shady, but looked the other way thinking they were special or protected and wouldn't get hurt.

MFS62 Sep 11 2013 09:19 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Allowed the installation of THAT scoreboard at CitiField. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 11 2013 10:38 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

-- Apparent slavish adherence to draft slots. -- Fumbling of relations with minor-league affiliates, to the point of making the franchise the least desirable AAA hot potato in all the land. -- Establishing/sticking with the ridiculous ticketing price points for WAY too long.

Gwreck Sep 12 2013 06:20 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Employing Dave Howard. Allowing Dave Howard to speak on behalf of the team. Refusing to be honest about Citi Field's positives and negatives. Alienating fans with riddiculous approach to ticket sales for new park.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2013 06:26 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I missed where Howard was the problem, but OK. Knocking down Shea.

metirish Sep 12 2013 07:56 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Tying up the family trust funds with the Mets(Sterling etc.) , there was no way they were ever going to lose control of the franchise when they were that dug in.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 12 2013 08:51 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Building a new stadium with comically inappropriate dimensions for baseball ... on purpose. Firing Steve Phillips without a clue as to who to replace him with; halfheartedly installing Jim Duquette as GM only to throw the weight of the organization behind the "white haired baseball men" (Livesley, Singer) who advised the Kazmir/Benson deals in a wildly desperate pitch for contention that failed spectacularly; subsequently discouraging Duquette from undoing that deal when it was revealed Zambrano was hurt to preserve harmony; leaving Duquette holding the bag so as to hire Omar Minaya -- not so much for baseball smarts, but to make a show of the organization's support for diversity.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2013 08:54 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

That Minaya hiya also relates to the organization's over-willingness to carry water for the league's interests. Putting all their chips on Steve Phillips after the 2000 World Series and, when he lost control of his vision, firing Valentine instead.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2013 08:57 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Letting Piazza go ahead with the HomoDenial press conference instead of encouraging him to starve the story of the dignity of a public denial.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 12 2013 08:59 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Believing they can win sympathy and support if they only open up to the media -- only to see those efforts explode in their faces time and again when they are truly revealed: As in the Francessa interview in 2004 or the New York magazine disaster of 2011. Never learning a thing.

metsmarathon Sep 12 2013 09:51 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

no longer teaming with nyrr to offer the run to home plate, most likely due to shortsighted stadium design. building a stadium with a lack of artistic and architectural vision and detail. building a stadium that instead looks like a knockoff of a disney stadium.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2013 10:16 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Letting the Yankees beat them to a partnership with the Nets, fracturing the symbolic fraternity of the Mets/Jets/Nets.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2013 10:23 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Letting a Venezuelan dictator throw out the first pitch. Shutting down the Gulf Coast Mets for a year. Aside from the on-the-field error of trading Brian Bannister for Ambiorix Burgos, there's the off-the-field failure that they seemingly allowed Omar to acquire a would-be serial killer.

dgwphotography Sep 12 2013 10:33 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

MFS62 wrote: Allowed the installation of THAT scoreboard at CitiField. Later Allowed? That was probably designed according to their specifications...

SteveJRogers Sep 12 2013 09:49 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Geez, don't know how to categorize this as something genuine, or a troll on another board pulling the Megdal act, but saw someone blast a recent coaster giveaway as being a limited supplied, cheaply made and has a sponsor slapped on it, as compared to a tray given away in 1970 that still looks great, was un-sponsored and they apparently (according to him) had one for EVERY SEAT in Shea, instead of today's "First X amount of adults/kids/all patrons." Basically adding that the Mets are conditioning the fanbase to expect less and pay more, and finished his post by saying he wouldn't be surprised if instead getting an expensive free agent pitcher, the Wilpons will use a much less expensive returning in 2015 Harvey as the excuse for not going after anyone (of course not laying out WHO in particular he thinks the Mets should target).

Zvon Sep 12 2013 11:20 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Believing they can win sympathy and support if they only open up to the media -- only to see those efforts explode in their faces time and again when they are truly revealed: As in the Francessa interview in 2004 or the New York magazine disaster of 2011. Never learning a thing. This is another thing that gets stuck in my craw. What kind of owner would diss his franchise player (chosen so by the fans, not him) in an interview like that, out of the blue. I wasn't too thrilled with Fred before that, but after that foghettaboutit! He is out of touch with everything to do with this team. Fredo ain't much better.

bmfc1 Sep 13 2013 05:37 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Something else F. Wilpon has done wrong: he hasn't died. Dammit, there's another thing to atone for tonight.

themetfairy Sep 13 2013 05:45 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Fred is the one thing that keeps us from the rule of Jeffy - things will only be worse when Fred is gone.

Lefty Specialist Sep 13 2013 07:04 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

The continuing failure of the marketing department. They simply don't know how to market this team. When's the last time you saw a good commercial for the Mets? (2005- the Mr. Met ads.) When's the last time they had a decent giveaway that was available to all who attended (not the first 18,000 or 25,000)? When you look at the promotions other teams do, you wonder what the hell they're paying these people for. What are they doing to get kids involved? And on and on. You can be innovative even with a bad product on the field. They don't even seem to try.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 13 2013 07:13 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Lefty Specialist wrote: What are they doing to get kids involved? Well, they do have a Mets Kids Club, and they do that "kids run the bases" thing a few times a year. And don't they have a weekly show in SNY aimed at kids? I know they once did, but I don't know if it's still on.

Ceetar Sep 13 2013 07:38 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Lefty Specialist wrote: What are they doing to get kids involved? Well, they do have a Mets Kids Club, and they do that "kids run the bases" thing a few times a year. And don't they have a weekly show in SNY aimed at kids? I know they once did, but I don't know if it's still on. They have a whole kids area in Center Field. Kids are free this weekend. The best way of course is to win so that fringe fans bring their kids because they want to go, and they enjoy themselves.

metirish Sep 13 2013 07:57 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Well, I will say that I love taking my son to CF, it is very kid friendly.....I don't think we would do the run the bases thing again.....more like "hurry the fuck up and don't stop", the wait was not worth the payoff....

Lefty Specialist Sep 13 2013 08:17 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Well, my son was in the Mets Fan Club once, and when an 8-year old says, "What's all this crap?" you know you have a problem.

Ceetar Sep 13 2013 08:37 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Lefty Specialist wrote: Well, my son was in the Mets Fan Club once, and when an 8-year old says, "What's all this crap?" you know you have a problem. don't they give you free tickets, a mets cap, etc? what else are they supposed to give you?

Edgy MD Sep 13 2013 08:39 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Eight-year-olds are the worst.

SteveJRogers Sep 13 2013 08:49 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Edgy MD wrote: Eight-year-olds are the worst. Tell me about it, my eight-year old nephew is a Yankee fan based on too many of his classmates being MFY fans, though at least he knows he is breaking his Uncle/Godfather's heart.

Edgy MD Sep 13 2013 08:55 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

And while I'm making insupportable generalizations, I oddly enough find eight-year-old girls to be wonderful. They could run the world as far as I'm concerned. Second-grade somehow works differently on the different genders.

HahnSolo Sep 13 2013 08:56 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Ceetar wrote: Well, my son was in the Mets Fan Club once, and when an 8-year old says, "What's all this crap?" you know you have a problem. don't they give you free tickets, a mets cap, etc? what else are they supposed to give you? Another issue: at Shea, the fan club did give you 2 tickets in addition to all the other crap. When they first moved into Citi, they no longer included the tickets. I think that has changed, but that's another example of a way they messed with their fans with the new ballpark.

SteveJRogers Sep 13 2013 09:12 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

FWIW, I would be pushing harder and needling him about the MFY's, but his mother, my sister, just wants baseball in general pushed on him, and not "crazy" team specific stuff and banter about why one team is better than another. One day the kid shows me a Derek Jeter kids book that he picked up at a book sale, I smirked and said "You know I don't like that!" His mother reacted as if I grabbed the book out of his hands, ripped it to shreads and yelled "I DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE YOU READING THIS FUCKING SHIT, YOU LITTLE SNOT NOSED CUNT! ONLY METS STUFF, I NEVER WANT TO SEE ANY COCK SMOKING YANKEE SHIT IN YOUR ROOM, EVER! FOR ANY GOD DAMNED REASON!" Geez, I know the kid wanted to show me that he was interested in reading about baseball, it wasn't like I made him cry! But pretty much she doesn't want him to get caught up in the whole "root for one team" thing.

G-Fafif Sep 13 2013 09:18 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W. But the determination to ignore the traditions and the heritage hardened post-2002 and took years of carping from the peanut gallery -- and the fact that they needed something/anything to distract us from the lack of a competitive product -- to reverse course. Part of it is the well-documented and often commented-upon obsession the principal owner has for the team of his childhood and how that obfuscated properly tending the legacy of the team he actually owns, part is the intimidation the franchise as a whole suffered in the face of MFY hegemony in the runup to the construction of Citi Field and part is generally faulty institutional memory. I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and b) the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs. MFYs on the brain directly explains why you didn't see blue walls when Citi Field opened and, to a certain degree, why you haven't seen a 40th anniversary celebration of the You Gotta Believe pennant (unless you want to count the Playing Cards giveaway, sponsored by Caesars). The concomitant belief among ownership and upper management that whatever the Mets have in their annals doesn't really matter when compared to all those rings, et al, is probably why blue and orange did not become fully prominent in the Met palette again until 2012. And why Banner Day comes on little cat feet instead of striding proudly through the center field gate. And why the Mets Hall of Fame was allowed to idle for eight years as Gooden, Strawberry, Johnson and Cashen went unrecognized nearly a quarter-century after their greatest accomplishments. I've also been told there's a simple clerical reason why so often "This Date in Mets History" blurbs on the video screen are wrong (the other night Jim Hickman was credited as driving in a big run for the 1969 Mets), but when you get right down to it, you have an organization that never stops to think about the details that go into making a thing people love a thing people love. Or to put it more corporately and coldly, they're horrendous brand managers.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 13 2013 09:22 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

SteveJRogers wrote: my sister, just wants baseball in general pushed on him Why should anything be "pushed on him"? Let him develop his own interests.

SteveJRogers Sep 13 2013 09:52 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Benjamin Grimm wrote: SteveJRogers wrote: my sister, just wants baseball in general pushed on him Why should anything be "pushed on him"? Let him develop his own interests. Oh I agree, she doesn't like it when I give him some good natured ribbing about certain teams. That kind of was my point about smirking and jokingly saying I disprove of the Jeter book. He knows I'm a massive Met fan, so it would stand to reason that I would tease him about Yankee stuff or stuff from teams the Mets play against often.

Frayed Knot Sep 13 2013 10:10 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

G-Fafif wrote: I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and b) the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs. It's often seemed to me that the Ws simply didn't care much about the Mets prior to when they owned them and specifically before they owned them completely. Looking back, in other words, would remind them of an era which they weren't a part of; or of a stadium that they hated; or of a co/majority-owner who they'd rather forget. The result was that putting as much ground between that era and "theirs" became a priority. aka: Jerry Grote? ... who's he?

Edgy MD Sep 13 2013 10:12 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I've come around on Randy Bachman and think he's a swell and thoughtful guy, but "Takin' Care of Business" always seemed like an obnoxious and unclever way to mark a win, and actually dimmed the glow a bit rather than brightening it.

HahnSolo Sep 13 2013 10:13 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Flying Willie out to Anaheim only to fire him at 3 AM NY time (following a win, no less). Not that firing Willie was wrong in and of itself. It's the circumstances around the whole thing.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2013 10:37 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Fred is the one thing that keeps us from the rule of Jeffy - things will only be worse when Fred is gone. I don't necessarily believe that. Now don't get me wrong: I think Jeff probably is the snotty, cereal-eating, undeserving, born-on-third-base, kinda guy we believe him to be, but his Dad is the one with the boner for the Brooklyn Dodgers and the University of Michigan and Bud Selig and Bernie Madooff and his slimy Brother in Law Saul and Omar Minaya and Art Howe.

themetfairy Sep 13 2013 10:45 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Cereal-eating?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2013 10:51 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I thought it's a well-known fact that Jeff bosses the interns around to buy him cereal, which he eats in his office at the park. And if it isn't it should be, since it fits the snotty, manchild image of his.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 13 2013 10:59 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

It makes sense, in that possibly-hypothetical formulation, that his taste is a little childishly off.

themetfairy Sep 13 2013 11:03 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

It rings a bell - I had forgotten that. Of all of my complaints about Jeffy, this isn't one of them. At least he isn't making them cook gourmet meals or anything.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 13 2013 11:07 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

G-Fafif wrote: The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W. But the determination to ignore the traditions and the heritage hardened post-2002 and took years of carping from the peanut gallery -- and the fact that they needed something/anything to distract us from the lack of a competitive product -- to reverse course. Part of it is the well-documented and often commented-upon obsession the principal owner has for the team of his childhood and how that obfuscated properly tending the legacy of the team he actually owns, part is the intimidation the franchise as a whole suffered in the face of MFY hegemony in the runup to the construction of Citi Field and part is generally faulty institutional memory. I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and b) the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs. MFYs on the brain directly explains why you didn't see blue walls when Citi Field opened and, to a certain degree, why you haven't seen a 40th anniversary celebration of the You Gotta Believe pennant (unless you want to count the Playing Cards giveaway, sponsored by Caesars). The concomitant belief among ownership and upper management that whatever the Mets have in their annals doesn't really matter when compared to all those rings, et al, is probably why blue and orange did not become fully prominent in the Met palette again until 2012. And why Banner Day comes on little cat feet instead of striding proudly through the center field gate. And why the Mets Hall of Fame was allowed to idle for eight years as Gooden, Strawberry, Johnson and Cashen went unrecognized nearly a quarter-century after their greatest accomplishments. I've also been told there's a simple clerical reason why so often "This Date in Mets History" blurbs on the video screen are wrong (the other night Jim Hickman was credited as driving in a big run for the 1969 Mets), but when you get right down to it, you have an organization that never stops to think about the details that go into making a thing people love a thing people love. Or to put it more corporately and coldly, they're horrendous brand managers. If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 13 2013 11:08 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I don't know. In a way, it's worse that Jeffy's theoretical assistants are jumping through hoops for Froot Loops, rather than sous-vide duck confit.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 13 2013 11:10 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

A question for you guys. If the Shake Shack is so good that the line last three innings, why don't they put more of them around the ballpark? Seems like it would make fans happy and add more revenue.

themetfairy Sep 13 2013 11:13 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Because if they had Shake Shack everywhere, then being able to get it with waiter service in the Delta Club would seem less special.

G-Fafif Sep 13 2013 11:13 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

A bit on the cereal thing here.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 13 2013 11:16 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 13 2013 11:30 AM

G-Fafif wrote: The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W.... As far as I'm concerned, eff Wilpon was the de facto majority owner since the early 90's Al Harazin era. eff's been running the team ever since. By then, Doubleday was so repulsed and demoralized from having been outmaneuvered and outlawyered out of his majority share of the team, that the publishing heir essentially threw his hands up in disgust and walked away from the Mets. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

dgwphotography Sep 13 2013 11:19 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

metsguyinmichigan wrote: G-Fafif wrote: The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W. But the determination to ignore the traditions and the heritage hardened post-2002 and took years of carping from the peanut gallery -- and the fact that they needed something/anything to distract us from the lack of a competitive product -- to reverse course. Part of it is the well-documented and often commented-upon obsession the principal owner has for the team of his childhood and how that obfuscated properly tending the legacy of the team he actually owns, part is the intimidation the franchise as a whole suffered in the face of MFY hegemony in the runup to the construction of Citi Field and part is generally faulty institutional memory. I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and b) the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs. MFYs on the brain directly explains why you didn't see blue walls when Citi Field opened and, to a certain degree, why you haven't seen a 40th anniversary celebration of the You Gotta Believe pennant (unless you want to count the Playing Cards giveaway, sponsored by Caesars). The concomitant belief among ownership and upper management that whatever the Mets have in their annals doesn't really matter when compared to all those rings, et al, is probably why blue and orange did not become fully prominent in the Met palette again until 2012. And why Banner Day comes on little cat feet instead of striding proudly through the center field gate. And why the Mets Hall of Fame was allowed to idle for eight years as Gooden, Strawberry, Johnson and Cashen went unrecognized nearly a quarter-century after their greatest accomplishments. I've also been told there's a simple clerical reason why so often "This Date in Mets History" blurbs on the video screen are wrong (the other night Jim Hickman was credited as driving in a big run for the 1969 Mets), but when you get right down to it, you have an organization that never stops to think about the details that go into making a thing people love a thing people love. Or to put it more corporately and coldly, they're horrendous brand managers. If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.) MGIM - you beat me to it. The same thoughts have invaded my fantasies of buying the Mets after the biggest lotto payoff in history...

G-Fafif Sep 13 2013 11:36 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

metsguyinmichigan wrote: G-Fafif wrote: The Wilpon/Wilpon era accelerated the deMetsification of the franchise. Banner Day had been allowed to lapse while Doubleday was still around. Old Timers Day disappeared while Doubleday was still around. Blue and orange was blackened while Doubleday was still around. So it can't all be blamed on the second W. But the determination to ignore the traditions and the heritage hardened post-2002 and took years of carping from the peanut gallery -- and the fact that they needed something/anything to distract us from the lack of a competitive product -- to reverse course. Part of it is the well-documented and often commented-upon obsession the principal owner has for the team of his childhood and how that obfuscated properly tending the legacy of the team he actually owns, part is the intimidation the franchise as a whole suffered in the face of MFY hegemony in the runup to the construction of Citi Field and part is generally faulty institutional memory. I've been told by those who made some of the decisions that were antithetical to Metsian equity that, in so many words, a) people don't care about those things (that is we doubt we can sell an extra 'x'-thousand tickets right away if we schedule this or that); and b) the MFYs already do that and we're not the MFYs and that thing you're asking about is associated with the MFYs. MFYs on the brain directly explains why you didn't see blue walls when Citi Field opened and, to a certain degree, why you haven't seen a 40th anniversary celebration of the You Gotta Believe pennant (unless you want to count the Playing Cards giveaway, sponsored by Caesars). The concomitant belief among ownership and upper management that whatever the Mets have in their annals doesn't really matter when compared to all those rings, et al, is probably why blue and orange did not become fully prominent in the Met palette again until 2012. And why Banner Day comes on little cat feet instead of striding proudly through the center field gate. And why the Mets Hall of Fame was allowed to idle for eight years as Gooden, Strawberry, Johnson and Cashen went unrecognized nearly a quarter-century after their greatest accomplishments. I've also been told there's a simple clerical reason why so often "This Date in Mets History" blurbs on the video screen are wrong (the other night Jim Hickman was credited as driving in a big run for the 1969 Mets), but when you get right down to it, you have an organization that never stops to think about the details that go into making a thing people love a thing people love. Or to put it more corporately and coldly, they're horrendous brand managers. If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.) If I was paid enough, the beverages with which people stock their fridges would no longer be an overriding professional concern of mine. I'll get back to you on specifics.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 13 2013 11:42 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

metsguyinmichigan wrote: If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.) You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall.

seawolf17 Sep 13 2013 11:44 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

batmagadanleadoff wrote: If I ran the Mets, I would create a position called vice president of tradition and fan experience, and GFAFIF would be the only person interviewed. He would have an office next to mine and authority to roam the stadium and order changes to anything and everything, except for the fridge of Diet Coke in my office, my lone act of rebellion. G, what would you do, assuming you accepted my job offer? (Pay is somewhere between David Wright and Juan Lagares, closer to Lagares.) You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall. Dream come true. I would LOVE Topps to do a "career" series with the Mets -- all the players whose Mets debut was in 1962 on 1962 cards, then any new players in 1963 on 63s, and so forth. Then you could sell the update each year with all the Aaron Harangs and Sean Henns every year.

themetfairy Sep 13 2013 11:49 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

batmagadanleadoff wrote: You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall. I love the idea, but would do the wall chronologically (but would have a corresponding list by name that would get updated with every new addition).

themetfairy Sep 13 2013 11:51 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

G-Fafif wrote: A bit on the cereal thing here. Yes - thanks G! She probably lost the case on the ground that all employees are treated like crap so there was no differential treatment. (Actually, they probably settled with a nondisclosure clause (as is the case with the vast majority of these kinds of claims)).

batmagadanleadoff Sep 13 2013 11:57 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

themetfairy wrote: You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall. I love the idea, but would do the wall chronologically (but would have a corresponding list by name that would get updated with every new addition). Chronological's OK. But aesthetically, I'd like it more when the card styles and player eras are all mixed up. I'd like to see a Stengel Met right next to a Valentine Met, for example. That's the specific reason I went alphabetical. Also, I'd change some cards each year. Because, assuming this exhibit was real, when you first add a player to the existing exhibit, it would logically be his debut card. But a future card of his might be more appealing.

G-Fafif Sep 13 2013 12:00 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall. I love the idea, but would do the wall chronologically (but would have a corresponding list by name that would get updated with every new addition). Chronological's OK. But aesthetically, I'd like it more when the card styles and player eras are all mixed up. I'd like to see a Stengel Met right next to a Valentine Met, for example. That's the specific reason I went alphabetical. Also, I'd change some cards each year. Because, assuming this exhibit was real, when you first add a player to the existing exhibit, it would logically be his debut card. But a future card of his might be more appealing. Jason my blog partner has long advocated a wall in which every Met's name is engraved, like the Vietnam Memorial but only less depressing, he claims. I like that, but I think I like this one better, especially the creation of Topps cards for the non-Toppsers. Shoot, they create sad looking cards on the video screen for the guys who don't have them, so yes, do it up right. Dave Schneck. How did Dave Schneck never get a card?

Edgy MD Sep 13 2013 12:03 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

A question that makes Jason toss and turn through the night, no doubt.

themetfairy Sep 13 2013 12:06 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Something relatively new on the giveaway front is that they are giving away some cool items, but only to people who buy the tickets through specific links. Here is one example. You only get the goods if you buy the tickets through the specific link, and you have to pick up your tickets day of game (so if you're going with a group of friends, either you all have to arrive together, or otherwise make sure that you use the Rotunda entrance and leave tickets at Will Call. Not an insurmountable chore, but much more of a hassle than just giving everyone their tickets ahead of time). Inevitably these promotions aren't well publicized, most people either don't know about them ahead of time, and the big winners are the people who sell the limited edition items on the secondary market. ================ On a different note, the introduction of Mrs. Met has been bass ackward. She appears sporadically and her evolving backstory makes her seem like a 50's era wife (we haven't seen her at all because she's been raising the kids/she needs to get dinner on the table for Mr. Met/etc.). And there is no Mrs. Met merch yet. I didn't notice myself, but I was at yesterday's game with a friend who REALLY wanted a Mrs. Met shirt. It seems like they re-introduced a potential icon but they have no game plan for promoting her. ================= BML - I love the idea of mixing up players' cards each year. It would give fans something new to see each season. And by mixing them up you could get a little bit of that card style/era juxtaposition (especially if you have a separate section for the coaches and managers).

Ceetar Sep 13 2013 12:12 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

themetfairy wrote: On a different note, the introduction of Mrs. Met has been bass ackward. She appears sporadically and her evolving backstory makes her seem like a 50's era wife (we haven't seen her at all because she's been raising the kids/she needs to get dinner on the table for Mr. Met/etc.). And there is no Mrs. Met merch yet. I didn't notice myself, but I was at yesterday's game with a friend who REALLY wanted a Mrs. Met shirt. It seems like they re-introduced a potential icon but they have no game plan for promoting her. All-Star Game stuff probably kept people busy too and I wonder if no decisions were made early on when most t-shirt design stuff seems to happen? I'd expect to see more of her on objects next year, I hope anyway.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 13 2013 12:24 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

themetfairy wrote: And there is no Mrs. Met merch yet. I didn't notice myself, but I was at yesterday's game with a friend who REALLY wanted a Mrs. Met shirt. It seems like they re-introduced a potential icon but they have no game plan for promoting her. What? Doesn't everyone own this big vinyl beach ball?

batmagadanleadoff Sep 13 2013 12:34 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

batmagadanleadoff wrote: themetfairy wrote: And there is no Mrs. Met merch yet. I didn't notice myself, but I was at yesterday's game with a friend who REALLY wanted a Mrs. Met shirt. It seems like they re-introduced a potential icon but they have no game plan for promoting her. What? Doesn't everyone own this big vinyl beach ball? Doesn't everyone get to snuggle and sleep with Lady Met?

Edgy MD Sep 13 2013 12:35 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I think when the next bloggers' summit is convened, they'll need to come down decisively, speaking with one voice as to whether Lady Met and Mrs. Met are the same person.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 13 2013 12:38 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: themetfairy wrote: And there is no Mrs. Met merch yet. I didn't notice myself, but I was at yesterday's game with a friend who REALLY wanted a Mrs. Met shirt. It seems like they re-introduced a potential icon but they have no game plan for promoting her. What? Doesn't everyone own this big vinyl beach ball? Doesn't everyone get to snuggle and sleep with Lady Met?

Mets – Willets Point Sep 13 2013 12:39 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I'm curious what Mrs. Met's maiden name is. I'd like it better if it was Ms. Met. Then she could be Mr. Met's sister and it would explain why they both have giant baseballs for a head.

themetfairy Sep 13 2013 12:45 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Doesn't everyone get to snuggle and sleep with Lady Met? No - only D-Dad does.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 13 2013 12:54 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall. I love the idea, but would do the wall chronologically (but would have a corresponding list by name that would get updated with every new addition). Chronological's OK. But aesthetically, I'd like it more when the card styles and player eras are all mixed up. I'd like to see a Stengel Met right next to a Valentine Met, for example. That's the specific reason I went alphabetical. Also, I'd change some cards each year. Because, assuming this exhibit was real, when you first add a player to the existing exhibit, it would logically be his debut card. But a future card of his might be more appealing. Jason my blog partner has long advocated a wall in which every Met's name is engraved, like the Vietnam Memorial but only less depressing, he claims. I like that, but I think I like this one better, especially the creation of Topps cards for the non-Toppsers. Shoot, they create sad looking cards on the video screen for the guys who don't have them, so yes, do it up right. Dave Schneck. How did Dave Schneck never get a card? And since we're paying Topps to create authentic looking cards for the Toppless Davey Schnecks, I'd have Topps dip into the ol' archives once more to redo some of those ugly capless and headless shots, especially the ones where the Met isn't even shown in the proper uniform.

Frayed Knot Sep 13 2013 01:06 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I remember in his original restaurant (73rd & 3rd) Rusty had a wall display where all 20-whatever of his baseball cards were lined up in chronological order. That was pretty cool looking.

Edgy MD Sep 13 2013 01:13 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Probably made the years he refused to be included seem a little awkward.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 15 2013 02:07 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall. I love the idea, but would do the wall chronologically (but would have a corresponding list by name that would get updated with every new addition). Chronological's OK. But aesthetically, I'd like it more when the card styles and player eras are all mixed up. I'd like to see a Stengel Met right next to a Valentine Met, for example. That's the specific reason I went alphabetical. Also, I'd change some cards each year. Because, assuming this exhibit was real, when you first add a player to the existing exhibit, it would logically be his debut card. But a future card of his might be more appealing. Jason my blog partner has long advocated a wall in which every Met's name is engraved, like the Vietnam Memorial but only less depressing, he claims. I like that, but I think I like this one better, especially the creation of Topps cards for the non-Toppsers. Shoot, they create sad looking cards on the video screen for the guys who don't have them, so yes, do it up right. Dave Schneck. How did Dave Schneck never get a card? And since we're paying Topps to create authentic looking cards for the Toppless Davey Schnecks, I'd have Topps dip into the ol' archives once more to redo some of those ugly capless and headless shots, especially the ones where the Met isn't even shown in the proper uniform. And one more thing I left out: Those Mets whose only Topps appearance was on a portion of a rookie card, shared with other players, like Les Rohr, or Jesse Hudson or Bart Shirley --- I'd have Topps create full cards for them, too. And if Topps doesn't have unused Mets photos of those players, they could simply use the photo already used on their original rookie cards, but uncropped, and bigger, to fill out the whole card.

Zvon Sep 15 2013 11:24 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

You didn't ask me but I got lotsa ideas. Here's one: I'd put up an installation with one Topps baseball card for every single Met ever. The cards would be organized alphabetically by the last name of each Met, and would be reorganized every time there would be additions to the exhibit. For the Randy Bobbs and Billy Cowans and Dave Schnecks and Bob Friends etc., who never got a Mets card, I'd pay Topps to go into their photo archives so that they could create cards for this installation. Every Met would be on that wall. I love the idea, but would do the wall chronologically (but would have a corresponding list by name that would get updated with every new addition). Chronological's OK. But aesthetically, I'd like it more when the card styles and player eras are all mixed up. I'd like to see a Stengel Met right next to a Valentine Met, for example. That's the specific reason I went alphabetical. Also, I'd change some cards each year. Because, assuming this exhibit was real, when you first add a player to the existing exhibit, it would logically be his debut card. But a future card of his might be more appealing. Jason my blog partner has long advocated a wall in which every Met's name is engraved, like the Vietnam Memorial but only less depressing, he claims. I like that, but I think I like this one better, especially the creation of Topps cards for the non-Toppsers. Shoot, they create sad looking cards on the video screen for the guys who don't have them, so yes, do it up right. Dave Schneck. How did Dave Schneck never get a card? And since we're paying Topps to create authentic looking cards for the Toppless Davey Schnecks, I'd have Topps dip into the ol' archives once more to redo some of those ugly capless and headless shots, especially the ones where the Met isn't even shown in the proper uniform. And one more thing I left out: Those Mets whose only Topps appearance was on a portion of a rookie card, shared with other players, like Les Rohr, or Jesse Hudson or Bart Shirley --- I'd have Topps create full cards for them, too. And if Topps doesn't have unused Mets photos of those players, they could simply use the photo already used on their original rookie cards, but uncropped, and bigger, to fill out the whole card. Did Topps save everything? Hard to find a decent color pic of Warren to use. I made this before you posted that one above, which is nice but not desirable. I will see how it looks in the border cause like Yogi said, you're never know how something will look until you see it.

Zvon Sep 15 2013 11:36 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Now Ive got a little snap to fit Met border kit. Hey, it don't suck. :) Looks like he's getting ready to do what he did, which was leave town.

Zvon Sep 15 2013 06:07 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

The biggest thing the Wilpons did wrong was shaft Doubleday. I liked that guy and he knew baseball. I imagine this vid has been posted here before...oh, maybe not. Just posted last week. A great slice of Mets here and the start of the Wilpon era. I haven't even finished watching this yet. I like the yearbooks. [youtube:zp8nuwju]JIY7laphVSk[/youtube:zp8nuwju]

Frayed Knot Sep 15 2013 06:19 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 17 2013 06:52 AM

The biggest thing the Wilpons did wrong was shaft Doubleday. -- I've heard this a number of times before but how this supposed shafting took place has yet to be explained to me. Fred, as a minority owner, had a clause in the contract that if a certain pct of the team were to be sold then he had the right of first refusal to buy that portion. That Nelson failed to know this or was mad because he didn't want Fred to be an equal partner is his fault and certainly nothing underhanded from Wilpon. I liked that guy and he knew baseball -- I have and had no opinion of Doubleday personally, but he never struck me as a guy who knew baseball particularly well. Owning a team to him seemed much more of the rich guy's toy than any kind of lifelong dream.

Edgy MD Sep 15 2013 09:55 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Ding and ding. The idea that in Doubleday must be made a victim or a paragon just doesn't float. The sooner that notion dies the better.

Ashie62 Sep 15 2013 10:07 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Frayed Knot wrote: The biggest thing the Wilpons did wrong was shaft Doubleday. -- I've heard this a number of times before but how this supposed shafting took place has yet to be explained to me. Fred, as a minority owner, had a clause in the contract that if a certain pct of the team were to be sold then he had the right of first refusal to but that portion. That Nelson failed to know this or was mad because he didn't want Fred to be an equal partner is his fault and certainly nothing underhanded from Wilpon. I liked that guy and he knew baseball -- I have and had no opinion of Doubleday personally, but he never struck me as a guy who knew baseball particularly well. Owning a team to him seemed much more of the rich guy's toy than any kind of lifelong dream. Spot on... Nelson was pretty detatched...

Zvon Sep 15 2013 10:10 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Then I stand corrected. As I've said here before, I'd have liked to see how things would ahve went had he stayed on.

Edgy MD Sep 16 2013 06:26 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

I can't imagine it'd've been pretty, but it'd've been interesting. I guess we should include hiring Randolph, a decision sold on that stupid winner label, but seemingly based on the Mets' desire to get good with the league by getting ahead of their affirmative action program. Neither was a particularly good motivation for the hire.

SteveJRogers Sep 16 2013 10:40 AM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Edgy MD wrote: Ding and ding. The idea that in Doubleday must be made a victim or a paragon just doesn't float. The sooner that notion dies the better. Just tell Fatso to stop repeating the often told legend that he and Doggie had a hand in the Mets landing Piazza based on Doubleday hearing them disscuss the idea of the Mets going after him. Which come to think of it, should make Doubleday seem less of a baseball guy, and more in line of the Steinbrenners and other owners who react to what media members "tell" them to do. The fact that the move worked out splendidly, as oppose to the "Wilpon directed" decision to ride out Hundley's time on the DL, is besides that point.

Lefty Specialist Sep 16 2013 12:53 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

My wife worked for Doubleday Publishing back in the day. He sold the book company to Bertelsmann in 1986 so that he could concentrate on his polo ponies, the Mets, and drinking, not necessarily in that order. He wanted to own the Mets, but he didn't want to [u:3lzczo08]run[/u:3lzczo08] the Mets. He wasn't driven to do it like Fred was. Nelson first thought of Wilpon as an annoyance, but as the loss of his control became more apparent, he grew hostile to the Wilpons. Fred didn't want to sign Piazza, Nelson did, and he did it as much to stick Fred with the bill as anything else. Nelson finally cashed out in 2002. Doubleday was a little like Mrs. Payson- he thought of the team as a rich man's toy. Not that he didn't want them to win, but he didn't like getting his hands dirty in the day-to-day. Fred, for all his faults, was a self-made guy and wanted to know the details. Nelson inherited his family's company and sold it off because he couldn't be bothered running it. If only we could be so lucky with Jeff.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 16 2013 12:57 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Lefty Specialist wrote: Doubleday was a little like Mrs. Payson- he thought of the team as a rich man's toy. Not that he didn't want them to win, but he didn't like getting his hands dirty in the day-to-day. This was probably what made the Mets the powerhouse organization they became by the mid-1980's. Doubleday hired great baseball people, and then got the fuck out of the way.

Edgy MD Sep 16 2013 01:00 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

We're doing it again.

HahnSolo Sep 16 2013 01:36 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

Trying to force an "8th-inning song" on us, because Oh My God the Red Sox have Sweet Caroline so we have to find a song too.

G-Fafif Sep 16 2013 02:05 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

As the years went by, this guy... came to remind me of this guy... That's Franklin Sherman, dotty and usually inebriated tycoon father of the title character in the intermittently amusing animated mid-'90s sitcom (or cartoon, I suppose) The Critic. I wasn't sorry when he was bought out. I'm sorry at who bought him out.

dgwphotography Sep 16 2013 06:18 PM Re: Things the Mets have done wrong in the Wilpon/Wilpon era

G-Fafif wrote: I wasn't sorry when he was bought out. I'm sorry at who bought him out. I have to say I agree with this. The stories of his alleged drunken anti-semitism were troubling to say the least.