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Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Series

G-Fafif
Oct 20 2013 08:15 AM

Hello, I am a time traveler who has just arrived from stops in Octobers 1946, 1967 and 2004. Anything new? Your incipient World Series appears to be just like the ones I came from.

MFS62
Oct 20 2013 10:17 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Yes. Since 2004, we have learned that we don't like the Cardinals and the fans of our cross town team don't like the Red Sox. That makes us like the Red Sox.

Later

A Boy Named Seo
Oct 20 2013 10:32 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

John Titor, is that you??

Gwreck
Oct 20 2013 12:49 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

History tells us that it is unlikely that the Cardinals will win. One league has not won four consecutive World Series since 1979-1982 (NL); before that 1947-1953 (AL).

G-Fafif
Oct 22 2013 04:54 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

One point in the Cardinals' favor, I've decided (though they need lots of points to gain my favor): Bill DeWitt really sweats the things an owner should sweat, as Paul Lukas found out over the past offseason.

Uni Watch: How big a role did you personally have in the development of this new alternate uniform design?

Bill DeWitt III: A big one. I led the whole effort.

UW: What sorts of things did you consider along the way that ended up on the cutting room floor, so to speak?

BD: Going back a bit, when we redesigned our logos in 1998, at that time we’d been using a circular primary logo with a cartoon bird. I always thought it was crazy that we had a cartoon bird for our primary logo and a different kind of bird on our uniform. That led to a redesign of the bird, which we then used on our uniforms and for a new logo and for some other things. It was a good refresh of our brand at that time.

In the 14 years since then, there have always been little things about that 1998 redesign that bugged me, but none of them bugged me enough to go through the effort of changing them. Along the way, though, I gathered ideas of things I’d like to see. I love that [placket] piping on old retro jerseys, I love the old “St. Louis” script we had back in ’32, I love off-white cream jerseys that teams like the Giants, Phillies, and Indians have used. And I thought, rather than messing with perfection by altering our home and road jerseys, let’s have an alternate jersey that incorporates some of these older, archival elements that go well together.

So what didn’t we do? At one point there was some thought about doing a black bat, instead of yellow, because that’s what we used to have. We considered doing the really thick piping on the shoulders, we could have done belt piping, those types of things. But you don’t want to overload the Christmas tree.

UW: In the announcements and press releases and so on about the new uniform, there were these quotes from you, and I could almost feel the tension between your desire to be thought of as one of the old-school franchises that don’t dabble in alternate uniforms, like the Yankees and Dodgers and Tigers, while also wanting to do something new. Was that a difficult internal conflict for you?

BD: There’s no question about it. You nailed it. We proudly consider ourselves to be among those elite few who don’t change just for change. So that tension was clearly there. For part of me, it was almost like my wedding day — like, “Are we really unveiling a third jersey today?”

UW: I’m sure your wife will be happy to hear that comparison.

BD: I should be okay as long as she doesn’t read Uni Watch. But to get back to your point, yes, there’s some tension there. But the announcement “Cardinals Do Third Jersey” — that’s not the whole story. Once people see the jersey, they’ll see that this is still in keeping with who we are and what we’re about.

UW: I’ll tell you one aspect of the design that disappoints me: Although the overall design is very retro, the birds on the bat are the exact same birds, in the exact same poses, as the ones on your home and road jerseys. Since the inspiration for the jersey comes from the early 1930s, why not go back to the version of the birds on the bat that was used in that era?

BD: You’re referring to the tails-up birds, as we call them. And it’s funny you say that, because we gave that a little thought. But remember, this isn’t a throwback — it’s a modern uniform, and it’s part of our portfolio of modern uniforms. The guys are gonna be wearing it every Saturday. So for that reason, I thought the birds had to be modern. Also, we have this enhanced stitching technology that allows for better detailing of the birds themselves, and we think the modern birds showcase that better than the tails-up birds. And then finally, those older birds are much smaller, and that causes problems with the proportion of the birds compared to the script and the bat. So you’d either have to enlarge the birds, in order to fit the modern size of our bat and script, or you’d have to shrink the bat and script. So it’s a good thought, but it has a bit of a Pandora’s Box element to it.


Try to picture certain other club owners in the National League a) giving such matters any thought; b) being able to articulate it; or c) not just leaving the whole thing to the discretion of the crooked equipment manager for a generation.

Zvon
Oct 22 2013 06:00 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Now that's my kind of club president. He knows his teams history and takes it serious.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 22 2013 06:06 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

In the last 10 or so months, I've only read Uni Watch about two, maybe three times tops. But that Cards piece was one of my reads. I remember thinking to myself: that's the kind of team uni history knowledge every team bigwig should be required to have?

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 22 2013 06:07 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Gwreck wrote:
History tells us that it is unlikely that the Cardinals will win. One league has not won four consecutive World Series since 1979-1982 (NL); before that 1947-1953 (AL).


You sure about that?

Gwreck
Oct 22 2013 11:02 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

You tell me. Did I forget something?

I hope it's understood that this is more of a "that's interesting" observation and not a "this is a well-founded statistical argument" observation.

Mets Guy in Michigan
Oct 23 2013 08:03 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Sounds like he's added the role of vice president of tradition and fan experience to his own duries!

MFS62
Oct 23 2013 08:21 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metsguyinmichigan wrote:
Sounds like he's added the role of vice president of tradition and fan experience to his own duries!

Hey, didn't Fred do that when he built the Rotunda honoring the Brooklyn Dodgers?
SM = 96

Later

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 23 2013 10:25 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Thomas Boswell on why this will be a classic World Series. I agree with most of these except that I prefer pitching duels to an "action series."

G-Fafif
Oct 23 2013 04:06 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Boswell's column is great stuff for convincing people who are going to watch the World Series that they're making a wise choice. Can't imagine it (or others in the genre) would sway people who don't already care.

Due respect to Boswell, I find these sorts of pieces a depressing reminder that baseball's grip on the national imagination ain't what it used to be. You don't see similar columns urging you to check out the ol' Super Bowl.

Edgy MD
Oct 23 2013 04:16 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Well, it'd take a helluva column to get me to watch the Super Bowl these days. Gyah!

I imagine they ain't missing my money.

SteveJRogers
Oct 23 2013 04:43 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Edgy MD wrote:
Well, it'd take a helluva column to get me to watch the Super Bowl these days. Gyah!

I imagine they ain't missing my money.


True, but you do get a deluge of social media users proudly proclaiming that they won't be watching, or just for commercials/movie trailers.

G-Fafif
Oct 23 2013 04:46 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I imagine Fox would be fine with people tuning in just for the commercials tonight.

Ashie62
Oct 23 2013 05:10 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Without the Mets I could care less about the WS...

metirish
Oct 23 2013 07:35 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Sox up 5-0 but Cardinals have bases loaded in the 4th with one out.

metirish
Oct 23 2013 07:37 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

and nothing comes of that situation..

d'Kong76
Oct 23 2013 07:40 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Seems the Sawx have some magic in 'em tonight, except
BIGPURPLE Papi getting robbed of a grand slam by Beltrán.
Now a 1-2-3 double play! 5-sniffle after three.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 23 2013 07:44 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Would've been 8-0. Bruised his ribs hitting the wall, and he'll head to the hospital.

Countless Boston Twitterers who are good at making false equivalencies but have never swung a bat in anger while nursing a bone bruise are having a field day at 'Los's expense.

metirish
Oct 23 2013 07:56 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Would've been 8-0. Bruised his ribs hitting the wall, and he'll head to the hospital.

Countless Boston Twitterers who are good at making false equivalencies but have never swung a bat in anger while nursing a bone bruise are having a field day at 'Los's expense.


ugh, makes it hard to buy into the whole B Strong thing, B assholes alright.

Zvon
Oct 23 2013 08:04 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Good game if you don't really care who wins. Big hits, great catches, controversal calls, WOW! another great catch right there by Robinson.

This board has been down to me most of the evening. Or just not here. Or not here for me. Or...u get it.
Very slow loading too. Anyone else having problems?

metirish
Oct 23 2013 08:06 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Yeah, loading problems seem to persist.

Zvon
Oct 23 2013 08:07 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Great catch by Beltraan and he did hit that wall hard but if he didn't have to be taken off the field on a stretcher I don't understand why he's outta the game. If he has a broken rib I'll understand. Anything short of that and I'm a tad disappointed in Mr. Beltraan. Great catch though.

d'Kong76
Oct 23 2013 08:07 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

The hosting company of the board has been having issues
since early afternoon.

Zvon
Oct 23 2013 08:29 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Kong76 wrote:
The hosting company of the board has been having issues
since early afternoon.
Yeah, loading problems seem to persist.

Bummer. I was ready to jump on the Beltraan bandwagon if he took his post season rep/success into the actual World Series. I'm still ready and wish him well, but this is a wussy start. GO BOSTON!

OE: Sometimes I get an error message when I try to switch pages. I took a screen shot and if anyone needs to see it just lemme know. Says SQL ERROR and more stuff.

Frayed Knot
Oct 23 2013 08:34 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

BoSox look to be on their way to their 9th consecutive WS game win following their sweeps in 2004 & 2007.
And with the exception of a three-inning span in game 2 of 2007 when they were briefly behind the Rockies 1-0 (a Todd Helton ground-out knocked in Matt Holliday in the 1st inning) you have to go back to a certain HR by Ray Knight to find the last time they even trailed a WS game.

dinosaur jesus
Oct 23 2013 08:36 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Not to mock a Marine or anything, but that "God Bless America" was cheesy in a way you don't hear a lot anymore.

metirish
Oct 23 2013 08:36 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
BoSox look to be on their way to their 9th consecutive WS game win following their sweeps in 2004 & 2007.
And with the exception of a three-inning span in game 2 of 2007 when they were briefly behind the Rockies 1-0 (a Todd Helton ground-out knocked in Matt Holliday in the 1st inning) you have to go back to a certain HR by Ray Knight to find the last time they even trailed a WS game.



damn, good info

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 23 2013 08:39 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

dinosaur jesus wrote:
Not to mock a Marine or anything, but that "God Bless America" was cheesy in a way you don't hear a lot anymore.


I did like the Rob Halford-y hand motions, though.

metirish
Oct 23 2013 08:46 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Ortiz - wow

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 23 2013 08:48 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Lordawmighty. Off a pretty tough lefty in Seagrist, too.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 23 2013 09:02 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

G-Fafif wrote:
Due respect to Boswell, I find these sorts of pieces a depressing reminder that baseball's grip on the national imagination ain't what it used to be. You don't see similar columns urging you to check out the ol' Super Bowl.


That's because they're too busy writing about what commercials to look forward to seeing. At least World Series coverage is still about the game and not about The Show.

SteveJRogers
Oct 23 2013 09:07 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
BoSox look to be on their way to their 9th consecutive WS game win following their sweeps in 2004 & 2007.
And with the exception of a three-inning span in game 2 of 2007 when they were briefly behind the Rockies 1-0 (a Todd Helton ground-out knocked in Matt Holliday in the 1st inning) you have to go back to a certain HR by Ray Knight to find the last time they even trailed a WS game.


Unreal. Speaking of quirkiness, Game 5 of that aforementioned series was the last postseason game the franchise won until Pedro Martinez won Game 1 of the 1998 ALDS 11-3 against Cleveland, their only win of that series (though they'd defeat Cleveland in 5 the next year), a streak of 13 postseason games (last two of the '86 series, ALCSs against the A's in 1988 and 1990, and the 1995 ALDS against Cleveland.

Zvon
Oct 23 2013 09:09 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
dinosaur jesus wrote:
Not to mock a Marine or anything, but that "God Bless America" was cheesy in a way you don't hear a lot anymore.


I did like the Rob Halford-y hand motions, though.

Yea, I like how he acted it out.
Frayed Knot wrote:
BoSox look to be on their way to their 9th consecutive WS game win following their sweeps in 2004 & 2007.
And with the exception of a three-inning span in game 2 of 2007 when they were briefly behind the Rockies 1-0 (a Todd Helton ground-out knocked in Matt Holliday in the 1st inning) you have to go back to a certain HR by Ray Knight to find the last time they even trailed a WS game.

Wow.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 23 2013 09:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Zvon wrote:

Bummer. I was ready to jump on the Beltraan bandwagon if he took his post season rep/success into the actual World Series. I'm still ready and wish him well, but this is a wussy start. GO BOSTON!


He was taken to Mass General Hospital, so I have to think it's pretty serious. Either way, I hate that he got hurt both because he's the one Cardinal I like, and because I want to see the Red Sox defeat their opponent at full-strength. And of course, I just don't like seeing guys get hurt.

metirish
Oct 23 2013 09:14 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I tweeted that with credit I was so impressed.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 23 2013 09:16 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Ryan Dempster enters the game to "Blurred Lines."

So. Very. Creepy.

metirish
Oct 23 2013 09:18 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

and Holliday twerks that one over the Monster...or as Joe Buck said he pounded it.....Robin Thicke would be proud.

Frayed Knot
Oct 23 2013 09:20 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
G-Fafif wrote:
Due respect to Boswell, I find these sorts of pieces a depressing reminder that baseball's grip on the national imagination ain't what it used to be. You don't see similar columns urging you to check out the ol' Super Bowl.


That's because they're too busy writing about what commercials to look forward to seeing. At least World Series coverage is still about the game and not about The Show.


Plus, if you've ever read the Washington Post, you'll understand that if Boswell doesn't call attention to the WS then certainly nobody else will.
Spring time in DC is noted by the arrival of the cherry blossoms and by the Post sports section cutting back to only 80% Redskins coverage.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 23 2013 09:23 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Come on and take me 450 feet to dead center
What rhymes with "take me 450 feet to dead center?"

Zvon
Oct 23 2013 09:25 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Freese play woke me up.

Well, good start for Boston. They're stroooooong.

Beltran, ya know, if its just a bruise,...weak. If it's more serious then I'll say I'm sorry for calling him a wuss. I know the Cards have some excellent players but I don't think they have a chance without Carlos in the lineup. And ten times less interesting if he's out for any post games.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 23 2013 09:26 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Come on and take me 450 feet to dead center
What rhymes with "take me 450 feet to dead center?"


Totally skeeved out now, thanks.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 23 2013 09:27 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

So, do they, like, shave now?

Zvon wrote:
Beltran, ya know, if its just a bruise,...weak. If it's more serious then I'll say I'm sorry for calling him a wuss. I know the Cards have some excellent players but I don't think they have a chance without Carlos in the lineup. And ten times less interesting if he's out for any post games.


I'm fairly certain he's not opting out of his first World Series because he feels a little "meh." (I also feel compelled to remind you that he's playing on knees that PRETTY MUCH HAVE NO CARTILAGE IN THEM.)

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 23 2013 09:30 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I just don't like the look of Carlos' arm compressing into his body in the replays.

metirish
Oct 23 2013 09:36 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Anyway, Lester was great tonight. I don't think I realized how good he is.

dinosaur jesus
Oct 23 2013 09:39 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I've always wanted to see a 9-3 putout, and Freese almost gave me my wish. Is that just some weird instinct that makes players slide into first, or does somebody actually coach that?

Zvon
Oct 23 2013 09:46 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
So, do they, like, shave now?

Zvon wrote:
Beltran, ya know, if its just a bruise,...weak. If it's more serious then I'll say I'm sorry for calling him a wuss. I know the Cards have some excellent players but I don't think they have a chance without Carlos in the lineup. And ten times less interesting if he's out for any post games.


I'm fairly certain he's not opting out of his first World Series because he feels a little "meh." (I also feel compelled to remind you that he's playing on knees that PRETTY MUCH HAVE NO CARTILAGE IN THEM.)

Yea, I'm just bein a dick. I want to see him play, that's all. Hope he comes back and has a series for the ages.

Zvon
Oct 23 2013 09:50 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

dinosaur jesus wrote:
I've always wanted to see a 9-3 putout, and Freese almost gave me my wish. Is that just some weird instinct that makes players slide into first, or does somebody actually coach that?

They say you are faster just running over the bag, so I doubt they teach it. I'm not a fan of sliding into first unless for show, cause it does look kool. But in this instance I think it was a heads up thing to do. I was surprised to see Victorino throw it, surprised to see Freese slide, and surprised that they called it right.

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 06:42 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Zvon wrote:
I'm not a fan of sliding into first unless for show ... But in this instance I think it was a heads up thing to do. I was surprised to see Victorino throw it, surprised to see Freese slide, and surprised that they called it right.


In that case it was the LEAST heads-up thing to do.
With the throw coming from that angle there's ZERO chance of a tag play meaning there's even less reason to slide than in most plays at 1st where the slide is (almost) always a bad idea in the first place.
Wouldn't have bothered me if the ump thumbed him out just for being stupid. It was Bang-Bang anyway.



I've always wanted to see a 9-3 putout, and Freese almost gave me my wish.


I can't remember if I've even seen it before on a position player. More than a few pitchers wind up victims because the RF often plays so shallow.
What would REALLY be cool would be to see a CF or LF pull it off. I did it one time from LF in a softball game (man was that guy embarrassed!) but somehow that doesn't seem quite like the same thing.

Centerfield
Oct 24 2013 07:25 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Couple of random thoughts after watching the game:

1. I have no idea how to build a championship team. After years of thinking I'd make a great GM, I'm happy to admit I'm clueless. I look at the lineup of both teams and I think there is not a chance that these guys are playing in the Fall Classic. Toronto? Sure. The Dodgers? Absolutely. Detroit? Yes. Boston and St. Louis? I would have said they'd contend but not make the playoffs.

2. The Beltran play really shows how polarizing this guy is. His catch of Ortiz's HR is a fantastic play. It's incredibly hard to time that perfectly, hit the wall and not lose the ball, then smoothly bring it back and throw it in to hold the other runners. The problem is, he makes it look so damn easy that a lot of people won't appreciate how hard that was. If it weren't the World Series, it might not even make those "Plays of the Night" highlights. Meanwhile every asshole who dives after catching a ball is shown over and over. He could have gone flying over the wall like Tori Hunter, and it would have been worse for the team (runners would have advanced) but everyone would be talking about the fantastic play.

His injury is the same thing. The replays show his arm getting crushed into his side, and the force with which he hit the wall. Had he crumbled Cliff Floyd style, he would have gotten a big hand getting walked off the field, and no one would be faulting him. Instead, he tried to tough it out. Stayed in the game, although clearly in discomfort. Because he was removed between innings, people didn't really notice it, and now question his toughness. He's been waiting his whole life to play in the World Series. He's not going to come out of the game because his side hurts a little. Anyone who's ever played knows you can't swing a bat when your ribs hurt. As LWFS said, the guy is playing no cartilage in his knee. He played with a broken face for us. I think it's time to put the "soft" label to rest.

Everybody talks about how sensitive Beltran is, but I can really see why. I'd be beyond sensitive if that were me. I'd be outright antagonistic. He is a terrific player and a gamer, and he has to continually hear that he's soft, disinterested and overrated.

I hope he has a great series, but the Cardinals lose. I want him to have to wait until next year when he's back with the Mets to get his ring.

Ceetar
Oct 24 2013 07:37 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

not to mention holding onto the ball despite the catch hurting so badly he bruised his ribs.

Try walking with a glass of water and let me punch you unawares and let's see if you drop the glass.

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 07:47 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I have no idea how to build a championship team. After years of thinking I'd make a great GM, I'm happy to admit I'm clueless. I look at the lineup of both teams and I think there is not a chance that these guys are playing in the Fall Classic. Toronto? Sure. The Dodgers? Absolutely. Detroit? Yes. Boston and St. Louis? I would have said they'd contend but not make the playoffs.


I was actually going to start a thread yesterday saying how there may be nothing less useful at this time of year than columnists penning articles that say:
[Local Team] should follow the [World Series participant's] blueprint for building a championship. (and yeah, I'm looking at you Bill Madden - as well as others)

Y'know what the best formula for building a championship is? ... Have all the shit you did go right for you at the same time and have as few injuries as possible. Once you master that "skill" you'll get more after-the-fact praise than you know what to do with and your "method" will be declared the new trend.


Not that I'm trying to say it's all luck or anything, or that do-do moves should only be criticized in hindsight. But it's amazing how smart one can look when your manager can run the same lineup out there almost every night and role players suddenly emerge in exactly the right spot and exactly the right time.

Centerfield
Oct 24 2013 07:50 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

By the way, does anyone even question that there is someone watching the replay and relaying this to the home plate ump so he can reverse clearly blown calls?

I'm usually not a conspiracy theorist, but to me, the conversation in the huddle goes something along the lines of:

"Ok, guys, upstairs is saying that call was clearly blown. Can all five of you guys start nodding in agreement? Ok, Dana, pretend to object. Ok, now let's all nod. I'll go tell Matheny."

Ceetar
Oct 24 2013 07:58 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:


Y'know what the best formula for building a championship is? ... Have all the shit you did go right for you at the same time and have as few injuries as possible. Once you master that "skill" you'll get more after-the-fact praise than you know what to do with and your "method" will be declared the new trend.


If I was a winning manager/GM I'd so get crazy.

"I owe much of our success to booze in the clubhouse to unwind after games"

"We put in a lot of hard work but we owe our success to a good piece of toast every morning and our sponsorship by the Toast Marketing Board."

"We hold group singalongs after losses, and the pitcher that took the L has the lead solo. Great clubhouse bonding that allowed us to capture the title."

"We practice by running the bases backwards. Really keeps our reflexes sharp on the basepaths."

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 08:03 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Centerfield wrote:
By the way, does anyone even question that there is someone watching the replay and relaying this to the home plate ump so he can reverse clearly blown calls?

I'm usually not a conspiracy theorist, but to me, the conversation in the huddle goes something along the lines of:

"Ok, guys, upstairs is saying that call was clearly blown. Can all five of you guys start nodding in agreement? Ok, Dana, pretend to object. Ok, now let's all nod. I'll go tell Matheny."


Not so much a bug in the ear but they absolutely showed the replay on the big screen at the park (you could hear the crowd reaction on at least two different occasions) which makes you wonder if any or all of the other five umps saw it there and decided to correct the call on that basis.

Edgy MD
Oct 24 2013 08:06 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

"We scout these kids early. There's a special type we're looking for. Rush tee-shirts. Aloofness. Don't wear their jackets in the winter. That sort of kid. Champions."

metirish
Oct 24 2013 08:07 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

joe Torre claimed that he knew the umps would converse because he saw them "collapse" on the ump in question...a sure sign to him the the other umps saw something different. John Farrell says he asked the umps to converse.

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 08:16 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
Y'know what the best formula for building a championship is? ... Have all the shit you did go right for you at the same time and have as few injuries as possible. Once you master that "skill" you'll get more after-the-fact praise than you know what to do with and your "method" will be declared the new trend.


Looking into this a bit: The Cardinals, who platooned at SS, got 500 or more plate appearances this season from the other 7 positions. Allen Craig was their big injury and he missed all of 3 weeks (plus the first two post-season rounds). 3 other players got between 300 & 400 PAs
And the BoSox also got 500 PAs from 7 different players and between 300 & 400 from 3 others. I kept hearing how injured Ellsbury was all season yet he got over 600 PAs

By contrast, the Mets had ONE player over 500 (Muffy) and the Yanx had 3

Centerfield
Oct 24 2013 08:21 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Oh, and by the way, I could watch the highlight of that ball falling between Wainwright and Yadier Fucking Molina on loop all day.

The only way it would have been better is if it caromed up and hit them (both) in the nads.

Fuck Wainwright. Fuck Molina.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 24 2013 08:22 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

That.

metirish
Oct 24 2013 08:25 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

A little conspiracy...Lester using vaseline.


http://deadspin.com/cardinals-minor-lea ... 1451341587

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 24 2013 08:30 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Nice. Lester is the kind of guy who would use vaseline, of that I have no doubt, and those few captures do look fishy, but fair fucks to him for getting away with it.

Edgy MD
Oct 24 2013 08:38 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Tim Marchman wrote:
It's almost certainly just pine tar, which pitchers use on cold, dry nights because the ball is hard and slick, in part because they don't want it to slip out of their hand and hit someone in the head. Teams generally don't gripe about this because there's a mutual understanding that it's in everyone's interests for pitchers to able to grip the ball properly.

Why haven't the St. Louis Cardinals taught this young pitcher how the game is played? Isn't their some kind of system, or way, they could implement?

Tim Marchman, makes the "there"/"their" error.

metirish
Oct 24 2013 08:44 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Isn't pine tar black?

Ceetar
Oct 24 2013 08:49 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

pitch f/x shows no deviant movement on pitches however.

MFS62
Oct 24 2013 09:03 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

A little conspiracy...Lester using vaseline.


http://deadspin.com/cardinals-minor-lea ... 1451341587


Deadspin is going to get a letter from Unilever, the company that produces Vaseline Brand Pertoleum Jelly ever since they bought Cheesebrough-Pond's Inc.

When I worked for CPI, they were very protective of that brand name, trying to keep it from coming a generic through common usage. So, every time a paper carried a story about Gaylord Perry throwing the "Vaseline ball", the Corporate Law department would send them a letter. It would ask them to call it just a "pertoleum jelly ball" or a "grease ball" without using the copyrighted brand name.
One time, Associated press had a story about Perry that was picked up by over 5,000 papers and other media outlets around the country. And CPI sent a letter to every one spotted by their clipping service.
Now that we cited this, CPI would probably try to send us one, too, but I'm not sure how they handle stories on the Internet.

Later

metirish
Oct 24 2013 09:29 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Incredible, so vaseline is the brand name and not the actual product?, we should be calling it petroleum jelly?

Learn something new everyday.

Ceetar
Oct 24 2013 09:36 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Incredible, so vaseline is the brand name and not the actual product?, we should be calling it petroleum jelly?

Learn something new everyday.


Dumpster is a brand name as well.

metirish
Oct 24 2013 09:37 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I can't handle all this learning...

Ashie62
Oct 24 2013 12:50 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Incredible, so vaseline is the brand name and not the actual product?, we should be calling it petroleum jelly?

Learn something new everyday.


It is called ball lube..

G-Fafif
Oct 24 2013 01:06 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Times salutes people watching WS games in daytime from when that used to be necessary. This one stretches the boundaries of the concept just a bit, back to the climax of the previous round, but we'll take it.

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 02:28 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Ceetar wrote:
metirish wrote:
Incredible, so vaseline is the brand name and not the actual product?, we should be calling it petroleum jelly?

Learn something new everyday.


Dumpster is a brand name as well.


IIRC, Xerox is an example of a company which lost control over its name, at least in one aspect.
Because XEROX had introduced the first marketable paper copier, the phrase 'making a Xerox copy' was used so often to describe the process that it was eventually ruled to have become common enough in general use that it was no longer something the company could claim as a copyright. Obviously that doesn't mean another company could manufacture a copy machine and simply stamp the name XEROX on it, but they could not be legally barred for saying their product was great for making "xerox copies" of your tax returns.

Vaseline, Dumpster, and even Velcro I believe, remain copyrighted names despite their use in common language.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 24 2013 05:57 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

You don't hear many people ask for an "adhesive bandage" or a "cola," either.

Centerfield wrote:
Everybody talks about how sensitive Beltran is, but I can really see why. I'd be beyond sensitive if that were me. I'd be outright antagonistic. He is a terrific player and a gamer, and he has to continually hear that he's soft, disinterested and overrated.


Hell, I'd be Barry Bonds, minus the 'roids, but plus a couple of florid-cursing-at-press-conference incidents and juvenile-and-mean-prank-on-reporter kerfuffles.

Zvon
Oct 24 2013 06:23 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Well, Beltraan's back and all is well. Singled in the first. Had a check swing and he looked okay, no pain.
This Wacha kid is fun to watch when he's not pitching against the Mets.

metirish
Oct 24 2013 06:39 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

OMFG, the way Buck and McCarver are fellating Wacha you'd be forgiven if you thought he was Christy Mathewson.

metirish
Oct 24 2013 06:42 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Gomes is a winner...has he ever actually won anything?

Zvon
Oct 24 2013 07:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

That was one kool ricochet. If it didn't get caught up in the bottom of the wall that coulda been an inside the parker.

Nice play Pedrioa. St.Lou on the board on a ground out. 1-0

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 24 2013 07:17 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

ESPN radio playing a Rangers game instead of the World Series.

Getting staticy signal instead from 970 am in Hackensack. Are you kidding me?

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 07:21 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Gomes is a winner...has he ever actually won anything?


Hey, he's been on three -- COUNT 'EM, THREE -- post-season teams during his eleven year career!
His first two teams lost in the first round. This BoSox team is his third.
IOW, he's now 2-2 in playoff series for his career.

Zvon
Oct 24 2013 07:23 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
ESPN radio playing a Rangers game instead of the World Series.

Getting staticy signal instead from 970 am in Hackensack. Are you kidding me?


That's messed up.

Big DP. I thought the Sox were gonna answer right back. Here's that Gnomes guy.

OOO, that was a nasty strike from Wacha. And he pops out.

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 07:24 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
ESPN radio playing a Rangers game instead of the World Series.

Getting staticy signal instead from 970 am in Hackensack. Are you kidding me?


That's why the Mets didn't want to take their radiocasts to ESPN, too many conflicts.
And with the national broadcasts, baseball often isn't the Four-Letter Network's top priority.

Zvon
Oct 24 2013 07:59 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

[bigpurple:120am9qw]PAPBOOM![/bigpurple:120am9qw]

SteveJRogers
Oct 24 2013 08:13 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
OMFG, the way Buck and McCarver are fellating Wacha you'd be forgiven if you thought he was Christy Mathewson.


Still nothing compared to Howard Cosell though. The way he talked up Scott McGregor in 1979, you'd think the O's not only had the next Jim Palmer, but a combo of him, Seaver and Carlton in one pitcher!

Edgy MD
Oct 24 2013 08:14 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Zvon wrote:
PAPBOOM![/bigpurple]

How did he behave? Did he carry himself appropriately around the bases?

SteveJRogers
Oct 24 2013 08:15 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
ESPN radio playing a Rangers game instead of the World Series.

Getting staticy signal instead from 970 am in Hackensack. Are you kidding me?


That's why the Mets didn't want to take their radiocasts to ESPN, too many conflicts.
And with the national broadcasts, baseball often isn't the Four-Letter Network's top priority.


To be fair, neither was the national broadcast when it was on WFAN and there was a Ranger/Knick conflict pre-ESPN or Net/Devil conflict post-ESPN.

Zvon
Oct 24 2013 08:17 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Edgy MD wrote:
Zvon wrote:
PAPBOOM![/bigpurple]

How did he behave? Did he carry himself appropriately around the bases?

Very business like.

Zvon
Oct 24 2013 08:24 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

whoa,WOW!

Sox get shabby.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 24 2013 08:59 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Nubby little leadoff hit for Ellsbury, with the Boston lineup meat due up next?

Kindly sit down, Dick Torino and Pedroia. And with the way young Carlos Martinez is dealing, Papi should be worr-- wait... um... take a base, Papi?

Hope this works out for you, Matheny.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 24 2013 09:01 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

And... it does.

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 09:29 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

After Papi smacked the first pitch he saw off the lefty reliever in Game 1, I would have left Martinez in there too.
Relievers who don't let hitters get the ball out of the infield sure do make managers look smart.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 24 2013 09:33 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Oh, granted. It was the pitch-around that got me preemptively second-guessing.

But man, those young arms. The back end of that Cardinals bullpen is so frighteningly robust, it's practically Brazilian.

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2013 09:41 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

And yet Carlos Martinez had a 5+ ERA and 1.4+ WHiP this season.
He then seemed to turn the corner once he hit September with only one bad outing out of nine. IOW, he caught fire just as former closer Mujica was turning to shit so Rosenthal took Mujica's spot while Martinez simply became the new Rosenthal and both are now untouchable.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 24 2013 09:49 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Freakin' Cardinals. I hate 'em.

metirish
Oct 25 2013 06:33 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Can the baseball media please fuck off with their self righteous digs at "NY area" baseball fans(mets fans) who think Beltran is soft...."hey NY area fans, you think Beltran is still soft?"....fuck off...I am sick and tired of you and quite frankly Beltran too.

Edgy MD
Oct 25 2013 07:37 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Gomes is a winner...has he ever actually won anything?

May be the post of the thread right there. Anything could still happen, but that was well played.

metirish
Oct 25 2013 07:47 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Thanks, pretty easy when McCarver is uttering such nonsense...I think his words were " a proven winner wherever he has played" .

MFS62
Oct 25 2013 07:51 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Y'mean a late inning relief pitcher is allowed to pitch more than one inning?
Amazing!

Later

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 26 2013 04:18 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

One point in the Cardinals' favor, I've decided (though they need lots of points to gain my favor): Bill DeWitt really sweats the things an owner should sweat, as Paul Lukas found out over the past offseason.

Uni Watch: How big a role did you personally have in the development of this new alternate uniform design?

Bill DeWitt III: A big one. I led the whole effort.

UW: What sorts of things did you consider along the way that ended up on the cutting room floor, so to speak?

BD: Going back a bit, when we redesigned our logos in 1998, at that time we’d been using a circular primary logo with a cartoon bird. I always thought it was crazy that we had a cartoon bird for our primary logo and a different kind of bird on our uniform. That led to a redesign of the bird, which we then used on our uniforms and for a new logo and for some other things. It was a good refresh of our brand at that time.

In the 14 years since then, there have always been little things about that 1998 redesign that bugged me, but none of them bugged me enough to go through the effort of changing them. Along the way, though, I gathered ideas of things I’d like to see. I love that [placket] piping on old retro jerseys, I love the old “St. Louis” script we had back in ’32, I love off-white cream jerseys that teams like the Giants, Phillies, and Indians have used. And I thought, rather than messing with perfection by altering our home and road jerseys, let’s have an alternate jersey that incorporates some of these older, archival elements that go well together.

So what didn’t we do? At one point there was some thought about doing a black bat, instead of yellow, because that’s what we used to have. We considered doing the really thick piping on the shoulders, we could have done belt piping, those types of things. But you don’t want to overload the Christmas tree.

UW: In the announcements and press releases and so on about the new uniform, there were these quotes from you, and I could almost feel the tension between your desire to be thought of as one of the old-school franchises that don’t dabble in alternate uniforms, like the Yankees and Dodgers and Tigers, while also wanting to do something new. Was that a difficult internal conflict for you?

BD: There’s no question about it. You nailed it. We proudly consider ourselves to be among those elite few who don’t change just for change. So that tension was clearly there. For part of me, it was almost like my wedding day — like, “Are we really unveiling a third jersey today?”

UW: I’m sure your wife will be happy to hear that comparison.

BD: I should be okay as long as she doesn’t read Uni Watch. But to get back to your point, yes, there’s some tension there. But the announcement “Cardinals Do Third Jersey” — that’s not the whole story. Once people see the jersey, they’ll see that this is still in keeping with who we are and what we’re about.

UW: I’ll tell you one aspect of the design that disappoints me: Although the overall design is very retro, the birds on the bat are the exact same birds, in the exact same poses, as the ones on your home and road jerseys. Since the inspiration for the jersey comes from the early 1930s, why not go back to the version of the birds on the bat that was used in that era?

BD: You’re referring to the tails-up birds, as we call them. And it’s funny you say that, because we gave that a little thought. But remember, this isn’t a throwback — it’s a modern uniform, and it’s part of our portfolio of modern uniforms. The guys are gonna be wearing it every Saturday. So for that reason, I thought the birds had to be modern. Also, we have this enhanced stitching technology that allows for better detailing of the birds themselves, and we think the modern birds showcase that better than the tails-up birds. And then finally, those older birds are much smaller, and that causes problems with the proportion of the birds compared to the script and the bat. So you’d either have to enlarge the birds, in order to fit the modern size of our bat and script, or you’d have to shrink the bat and script. So it’s a good thought, but it has a bit of a Pandora’s Box element to it.


Try to picture certain other club owners in the National League a) giving such matters any thought; b) being able to articulate it; or c) not just leaving the whole thing to the discretion of the crooked equipment manager for a generation.


The NYT catches up with the uni-conscious and detail oriented DeWitt

On Baseball
Cardinals’ History Remains in the Details
By TYLER KEPNER
Published: October 25, 2013

ST. LOUIS — The apostrophe in the Baltimore Orioles’ alternate logo faces the wrong way. The Mets have no pattern for their choice of jerseys on any given day. The Philadelphia Phillies forgot to make a press pin for their last World Series appearance.


It was DeWitt’s bat-boy uniform that the St. Louis Browns’ Eddie Gaedel wore in 1951.
Charlie Neibergall/Associated Press


In keeping with tradition, David Freese and the Cardinals will wear their Saturday alternate jerseys, with St. Louis across the chest, for Game 3.

Such oversights might not bother most baseball executives. But most executives are not named DeWitt. In this family, whose roots reach back nearly a century in the game, details matter.

When the St. Louis Cardinals take the field for Game 3 of the World Series against the Boston Red Sox, they will wear their cream-colored Saturday alternate jerseys, with St. Louis across the chest. In Game 4, they will wear their Sunday navy cap, with a red brim and the logo of a bird on a bat. On Monday, in Game 5, they will wear their usual home combination: primary white jersey, primary red cap.

The Cardinals never wear a colored, softball-style jersey, and they never deviate from their schedule. The consistency of a classic look is part of who they are.

“In some respects, what makes the Cardinals fun and interesting and cool is that some of these other franchises don’t do it,” said Bill DeWitt III, the team president, whose father owns the team. “If every team stayed to the pattern of home whites and road grays, there wouldn’t be anything special to preserving it. When other teams do that stuff, it doesn’t necessarily bother me, in the sense that we can play off of that.”

Bill DeWitt Jr., 72, bought the Cardinals for $150 million from Anheuser-Busch in 1995. He had previously been a limited partner in the Texas Rangers, putting together the investors in George W. Bush’s ownership group, and had nearly purchased the Orioles.

Owning the Orioles would have been fitting, since Bill DeWitt Sr., who died in 1982, had owned their ancestors, the St. Louis Browns. But the Cardinals also had special appeal, because DeWitt Sr. had started in baseball selling soda at Cardinals games in 1916.

He soon became a favorite of Branch Rickey, the Hall of Fame executive and father of the modern farm system.

“He was very focused on scouting and player development,” DeWitt Jr. said of his father. “He grew up under Branch Rickey, and when they were adding all those teams, he would go out in the field and do a lot of that work for Rickey. He thought a lot of him and would say so.”

By the 1940s, DeWitt Sr. was running the Browns, winning their only American League pennant in 1944 and selling to the maverick Bill Veeck in 1951 but remaining in the front office. That August, Veeck hatched a stunt to send the 3-foot-7 Eddie Gaedel to the plate in a game against the Detroit Tigers. Gaedel wore the uniform of the team’s 9-year-old bat boy: Bill DeWitt Jr.

“It was a doubleheader, and between games of the doubleheader he popped out of a cake,” DeWitt Jr. said, recalling that Gaedel pinch-hit for Frank Saucier, a top prospect who was struggling. “Bobby Cain pitched, and I think the first two pitches were overhand. They were up there — balls — so I think he threw the last two underhand. He couldn’t throw strikes, walked him, and then they pinch-ran for him. That was it. So I got my uniform back at the end of the game.”

For 25 years or so, through DeWitt Sr.’s eventual ownership of the Cincinnati Reds, the uniform — with jersey number 1/8 — hung in a closet, part heirloom, part costume. DeWitt Jr.’s sister, Dede, once wore it for Halloween. When Veeck was inducted to the Baseball Hall of Fame, in 1991, the family lent the jersey to Cooperstown.

Jeff Idelson, the Hall of Fame president, said the museum usually accepts only donations, not loans, unless no other artifact can be used to tell a story. DeWitt’s jersey — like Willie Mays’s glove from the 1954 World Series, on loan from the son of Giants pitcher Don Liddle — is the only known artifact of an indelible moment in history.

“When you look at owners in the game today, there’s probably no one with a deeper historical sense of the game and its history than Bill,” Idelson said.

DeWitt Jr.’s foundation in the game is reflected in the Cardinals’ largely homegrown roster. DeWitt Jr. adopted his father’s interest in the farm system and has emphasized its importance over the last decade. He communicates daily with the Cardinals’ general manager, John Mozeliak.

DeWitt III, 45, oversees the Cardinals’ business operations and spearheads the team’s Ballpark Village project, a restaurant/retail space on the site of the old Busch Stadium beyond left field. It will open next spring and include a St. Louis baseball museum, a special passion for an avid collector.

DeWitt III owns a full set of World Series press pins, dating to 1911, and designs the Cardinals’ versions. He took special care in designing the team’s Saturday uniform, wanting to give it a retro feel that fits with a modern portfolio, and not make it a Turn-Back-the-Clock-Day gimmick.

He also added a touch of authenticity this season that fans cannot even see. Decades ago, DeWitt III noticed, uniforms included the player’s last name, chain stitched, on the bottom left tail of the jersey front. That part of the jersey was tucked in, out of view on the playing field, but it was there, and DeWitt III wanted to bring it back.

This was surprisingly problematic. Retailers are supposed to market authentic jerseys to fans, down to the last detail, and adding a tiny, chain-stitched last name would add to the cost of an already pricey item. DeWitt III grew tired of the haggling.

“Eventually I said, ‘We’re just going to do it for the players,’ ” DeWitt III said, and so it was done.

When your name is DeWitt, you have the authority — and the sensibility — to make stylish statements of history.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/sport ... html?_r=1&

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 26 2013 05:02 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Sounds anal.

Frayed Knot
Oct 26 2013 06:48 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

If the Red Sox had even average arms in left field they might have won Game 2 and would only be down 1-0 so far here.
But neither Gomes on Thursday or Nava tonight showed anything approaching a decent gun.

d'Kong76
Oct 26 2013 07:03 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Anyone catch the bird falling to a crash on that muffed
pop up hit by Holliday?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 26 2013 08:46 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

It would be only be appropriate if Beltran tipped his hat in Victorino's direction after that not-moving-out-of-the-way HBP.

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 08:51 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

OOO, nice slide by Beltraan. That HBP was bullshit.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 26 2013 08:54 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

BOOOOOOOO, HOLLIDAY! SHOULD HAVE BUNTED! #PlayTheRightWay

metirish
Oct 26 2013 09:18 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Why are the Cardinals wearing tops sporting St.louis at home?

Frayed Knot
Oct 26 2013 09:24 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Why are the Cardinals wearing tops sporting St.louis at home?


That's their (new this season I believe) alternate third jersey which they wear only on home Saturdays.
Normally both their home and road jerseys have the same script 'Cardinals' on them, just differing in the gray or white.

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 09:26 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I really like those jerseys.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 26 2013 09:26 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Kolten Mothertruckin' Wong.

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 09:26 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Wow, tied in the 8th.

metirish
Oct 26 2013 09:30 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
metirish wrote:
Why are the Cardinals wearing tops sporting St.louis at home?


That's their (new this season I believe) alternate third jersey which they wear only on home Saturdays.
Normally both their home and road jerseys have the same script 'Cardinals' on them, just differing in the gray or white.



thanks FK...they are nice...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 26 2013 09:32 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Pete MotherTruckin' Kozma.

It's a good thing the Best Fans In Baseball are used to his shtick, or he might have to watch his ass on his way to the car.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 26 2013 09:43 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Holliday jammed. Game stays tied. On to the ninth.

This has been a really, really taut, tense, engaging game for a game I don't really give a shit about.

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 09:50 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Holliday jammed. Game stays tied. On to the ninth.

This has been a really, really taut, tense, engaging game for a game I don't really give a shit about.

exactly. Great baseball. We've seen a little of everything this post.

Frayed Knot
Oct 26 2013 09:51 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I kind of like this strategy by Farrell and the Sox -- let your pitcher hit because it's Rosenthal's 2nd and probably last inning and with 8-9-1 you probably weren't going to score anyway.
Yeah, you still have to hold the Cards in the bottom half but, if you do, it's Victorino-Pedroia-Papi in the 10th with Martinez and Rosenthal out of the game.

Frayed Knot
Oct 26 2013 09:52 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
metirish wrote:
Why are the Cardinals wearing tops sporting St.louis at home?


That's their (new this season I believe) alternate third jersey which they wear only on home Saturdays.
Normally both their home and road jerseys have the same script 'Cardinals' on them, just differing in the gray or white.



thanks FK...they are nice...



See the articles BatMags posted at the end of the previous page on this thread. The NYTimes article talks all about this particular uni and the StL obsession with them.

metirish
Oct 26 2013 10:03 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Wild finish

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 10:03 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

no,no,no

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 10:05 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Wow, that was exciting. And different. Crazy end.

Frayed Knot
Oct 26 2013 10:06 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

3B ump indicated obstruction immediately so the home plate ump had no choice but to call the runner safe.
I'm just not sure that a runner tripping over a prone fielder qualifies as obstruction.

Amazing that the Cards have now won two games largely because of bad throws from home to 3rd.

metirish
Oct 26 2013 10:07 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Baseball really is a great game......wow

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 10:09 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Baseball really is a great game......wow

agreed :)
Frayed Knot wrote:

I'm just not sure that a runner tripping over a prone fielder qualifies as obstruction.



What's the rule? Does it have to be intentional or does that matter in any way? Because that wasn't intentional.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 26 2013 10:09 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

"Come on. Really? I'm really not sure that interference call should have been made there."
[Shake heads incredulously]
-Best Fans In Baseball

Frayed Knot
Oct 26 2013 10:14 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Zvon wrote:
Frayed Knot wrote:

I'm just not sure that a runner tripping over a prone fielder qualifies as obstruction.



What's the rule? Does it have to be intentional or does that matter in any way? Because that wasn't intentional.


I guess technically Middlebrooks, because he didn't have the ball, can't block the runner from trying to advance.

The rule is, that once obstruction is indicated, the play is allowed to play out and it becomes a judgement call as to whether the runner would have advanced had he not been interfered with. Craig was clearly out at home but had he not fallen over the prone Middlebrooks he probably would have made it.
McCarver is saying that intent has nothing to do with it which, while true, doesn't mean that every UNintentional obstruction results in an automatic free base.

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 10:16 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

They say unintended obstruction is obstruction. So good call, great new way to see a ballgame end. Too bad it's a World Series game Boston.

Zvon
Oct 26 2013 10:18 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
Frayed Knot wrote:

I'm just not sure that a runner tripping over a prone fielder qualifies as obstruction.



What's the rule? Does it have to be intentional or does that matter in any way? Because that wasn't intentional.


I guess technically Middlebrooks, because he didn't have the ball, can't block the runner from trying to advance.

The rule is, that once obstruction is indicated, the play is allowed to play out and it becomes a judgement call as to whether the runner would have advanced had he not been interfered with. Craig was clearly out at home but had he not fallen over the prone Middlebrooks he probably would have made it.
McCarver is saying that intent has nothing to do with it which, while true, doesn't mean that every UNintentional obstruction results in an automatic free base.


Thanks for the extended view. Yea, if he didn't go down he scores ahead of the throw that just nipped him. Hey, good thing we didn't have to see that happen to the Mets, huh?

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 26 2013 10:27 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Bullshit call, but the game was all but lost on Farrell's questionable moves anyway.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 26 2013 10:54 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Look at the direction Jim Joyce is facing as Craig pushes Middlebrooks into the ground.

86-Dreamer
Oct 27 2013 06:01 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Craig had a clear path around 3B. But, regardless of intent, he takes a step instead toward 2B. why doesn't he then have to retouch third?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 27 2013 07:50 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Stupid Red Socks and their throwing errors.

MFS62
Oct 27 2013 08:32 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Zvon wrote:
They say unintended obstruction is obstruction. So good call, great new way to see a ballgame end. Too bad it's a World Series game Boston.

Its really fun watching the World Series reports on the pro- Boston tv stations up here in Connecticut.
Just as I turned off the sports report, they were blaming the interference call from last night's game on not burning enough witches in Salem.

As for the direction Jim Joyce is facing, it looks like he is following the throw, to see if it went into the stands or if a fan touched the ball. From the replays I saw this morning, the home plate ump made the interference call.

Later

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 09:07 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

They say unintended obstruction is obstruction. So good call, great new way to see a ballgame end. Too bad it's a World Series game Boston.
As for the direction Jim Joyce is facing, it looks like he is following the throw, to see if it went into the stands or if a fan touched the ball. From the replays I saw this morning, the home plate ump made the interference call.


No, a wider shot where you can see that entire side of the diamond shows Joyce turning back and clearly making the call with the home plate ump acknowledging it immediately afterward.
On an obstruction call the obstruction is indicated (as it was by Joyce) but play is allowed to continue. Only after the play is over does it become a judgement call as to whether or not they believe the obstruction prevented the runner from safely advancing. The home ump did so immediately by signaling safe despite the obvious tag (and Craig never touching the base) and quickly pointed toward 3B as the reason.

Sox fans may remember a similar play from a playoff game a few years ago where they benefitted. In that one, Oakland's Miguel Tejada was obstructed rounding 3rd but then stopped halfway to home to complain about it. Because he did he was not awarded the base, just as had Craig been out by a larger margin last night the umps could have still called him out despite the obstruction*.



What's kind of funny is that, between the reversed dropped-ball call at 2nd in Game 1 and now this obstruction deal in Game 3, we've had two of the three games ending with one of the managers giving a near identical post-game quote along the lines of: 'maybe it was technically the right call but, in that situation, it's a tough one to swallow'






* That was what should have happened in that Zeile/Knoblauch obstruction call during the inter-league game a bunch of years back.
If you recall that one, not only did the 1st base ump allow coach Mazzilli to talk him into the obstruction but it was one where Knoblauch barely had to dip his shoulder in order to get around Zeile and wound up being out by about 17 feet despite only slightly breaking stride.

metirish
Oct 27 2013 06:43 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Sorry but McCarver sounds like a babbling fool tonight, he really sounded incoherent in trying to explain the reason the obstruction rule should be looked at by the rules committee ...I felt bad for him actually.

metirish
Oct 27 2013 07:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Beltran knocks in the first run of the game ....1-0 in the 3rd.

d'Kong76
Oct 27 2013 07:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

The more I look at that historical play, I think there was
a little intent. Still no way to finish a World Series game.
Like they say, watch baseball long enough and you will
always see something new from time to time.

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 07:16 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

McCarver has stumbled over his words several times in this series.
Even those who didn't like him all along would probably not cite that as one of his faults. Maybe he's getting out at the right time.


Meanwhile, the Cards continue to take advantage of every BoSox mistake.
They're not hitting all that well and didn't during the LA series either (except for the final game) but they seem to hit about .900 following walks, errors, or passed balls.

d'Kong76
Oct 27 2013 07:19 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Stand up, get back on your feet ... but no, he stuck 'em
straight up in the air and that's what the home plate ump
saw ....

[youtube:18y3rfq5]huh8oW4dEwA[/youtube:18y3rfq5]

d'Kong76
Oct 27 2013 07:22 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
Even those who didn't like him all along would probably not cite that as one of his faults. Maybe he's getting out at the right time.


Funny, I thought he looked a little extra 'happy' in the opening
comments ... maybe a few glasses of wine at dinner. Hell, why
not ... it's his swan song.

Thank god

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 07:28 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Joyce said the legs didn't matter. What he didn't see was Craig pushing off on Middlebrooks back forcing Middlebrooks back into the ground. Without that push they both may be able to stand at the same time and Middlebrooks may get out of the way. Maybe it doesn't change anything, and I doubt the push was intentional, but I've seen no one address how this push could be a mitigating factor.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 07:32 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Sorry but McCarver sounds like a babbling fool tonight, he really sounded incoherent in trying to explain the reason the obstruction rule should be looked at by the rules committee ...I felt bad for him actually.


We've been watching the MLB International stream. There's no bells & whistles (such in game interviews, celebrity promos, etc) or missed action coming back from the commercials. The announcers are Gary Thorne (who is pretty good) and Rick Sutcliffe (who is apparently a McCarver acolyte, but doesn't have the whiny, nasal voice that gets under my skin so he's easy to ignore). It's kind of nice to have an alternative.

d'Kong76
Oct 27 2013 07:34 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I say the legs matter too!
I was rooting for the Sawx all the way until I saw some
of the reactions to this ... it will be more fun to see them
lose and listen to how they were robbed of a victory yet
again.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 07:36 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Kong76 wrote:
I say the legs matter too!

Yeah, but you're not the ump. He said that body was in the way and the legs were of no consideration.

The fact of the matter is that Jim Joyce made a judgment call and was wrong. The Cardinals got a gift-wrapped win. But in the end it won't matter because there are four more games to play.

metirish
Oct 27 2013 07:42 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
metirish wrote:
Sorry but McCarver sounds like a babbling fool tonight, he really sounded incoherent in trying to explain the reason the obstruction rule should be looked at by the rules committee ...I felt bad for him actually.


We've been watching the MLB International stream. There's no bells & whistles (such in game interviews, celebrity promos, etc) or missed action coming back from the commercials. The announcers are Gary Thorne (who is pretty good) and Rick Sutcliffe (who is apparently a McCarver acolyte, but doesn't have the whiny, nasal voice that gets under my skin so he's easy to ignore). It's kind of nice to have an alternative.


I like Thorne, Sutcliffe is one of those guys that seems to talk very low in a monotone voice....except of course when he's drunk in the booth, then all bets are off.

d'Kong76
Oct 27 2013 07:44 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

If he said legs were of no consideration, he was wrong on
more than one thing. He raised his legs and slowed his progress.

Listen to the record.

metirish
Oct 27 2013 07:49 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

That Bogartes kid has had some of the best at bats in this series....really like him

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 07:49 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Wow! Ortiz now with 7 of the Sox' 20 hits in the series (and their only two HRs).
Not going to win a long series spacing out the hits that way.

metirish
Oct 27 2013 07:49 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

shold note followed by a guy Drew who has had some of the worst.....and he pops out but a run scores.

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 07:51 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

That was chance-y and that was close.

metirish
Oct 27 2013 07:53 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Yeah, if Ortiz doesn't do that slide of his maybe the ball beats him because his legs hit Molina's hand.

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 07:54 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

No Timmy, he went back to 2nd because the throw was low enough to be cut off by Freese at 3rd, not because he was afraid of Molina coming up with it. Had Gomes gone further off the base as you suggest Freese would have (or at least could have) made the cut and had Gomes hung up. If I'm the Cards I'll trade a run for two outs on that play.

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 07:57 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

What's that, five mound visits by Molina this inning alone?
Only 12 more and he'll tie Jorge Posada's mark.

Zvon
Oct 27 2013 07:58 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Sorry but McCarver sounds like a babbling fool tonight, he really sounded incoherent in trying to explain the reason the obstruction rule should be looked at by the rules committee ...I felt bad for him actually.


Funny you guys noticed this. Earlier in the broadcast, much early on, he was saying something, something to do with a catcher and catching, and I thought just that: that he was babbling like a fool. I like Tim overall.
He'll be missed.

Zvon
Oct 27 2013 08:23 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I'd say Gnomes is a lil pumped. Lil bit.

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 08:25 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I like to think that that HR was payback karma for the Cards using far too many mound visits.
I know, of course, that it wasn't, but I'm going to believe it was anyway because it makes me feel better.

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 08:51 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Drew is a much better defensive SS than I realized.
I guess I hadn't seen enough of his career to date to really form much of an opinion on his glove/arm/feet, etc. prior to this post-season, but he really is much closer to the elite class of defenders than I ever suspected.

Zvon
Oct 27 2013 08:59 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
Drew is a much better defensive SS than I realized.
I guess I hadn't seen enough of his career to date to really form much of an opinion on his glove/arm/feet, etc. prior to this post-season, but he really is much closer to the elite class of defenders than I ever suspected.
Agreed FK.

Zvon
Oct 27 2013 08:59 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

He's not going anywhere near Beltraan.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 27 2013 09:31 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Holy hell, there are a LOT of Dutch shortstops in the majors all of a sudden, aren't there?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 27 2013 09:32 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

With an induced grounder, John Lackey says, "Honey, I'm leaving you... stranded on third."

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 09:34 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

For once the Cards DON'T take advantage of Boston miscues - multiple ones in this case.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 09:37 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Nice move putting Lackey in for the inning even if Bogaerts and Ross nearly sabotaged it.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 09:37 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Holy hell, there are a LOT of Dutch shortstops in the majors all of a sudden, aren't there?


You can tell by their wooden cleats.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 27 2013 09:47 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Red Sox down in order, and we're on to the bottom of the ninth.

This one could get tricky quickly if the Cards get men on base, as the Sox have, like, nine guys out there over whom a baserunner could trip.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 09:51 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:


This one could get tricky quickly if the Cards get men on base, as the Sox have, like, nine guys out there over whom a baserunner could trip.



You're en fuego tonight.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 27 2013 09:51 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Really, it's, like, 70 percent pubic playoff beard.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 27 2013 09:52 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Kolten Wong now available.

Zvon
Oct 27 2013 09:52 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

WOW! Another novel way to end a game! Good series! :)

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 09:52 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

You have GOT to be kidding me!!!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 27 2013 09:54 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

SWING THE BAT, BELTRAN

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 09:57 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Even.

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 09:57 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Looking at that on the replay, it was really a bit of luck for Uehara; he started his pickoff move exactly as Wong took an extra step to lengthen his lead and, as a result, got caught leaning the wrong way on a play where he almost certainly wasn't planning on going anywhere.
Good luck for the closer, bad luck for the rookie.


But whatever the case, we've got ourselves a series here. Tied 2-2, we're guaranteed at least six games and a trip back to Boston.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 27 2013 10:08 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Show's on, Best Fans in Baseball!

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 10:14 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Show's on, Best Fans in Baseball!


Whoa!

Frayed Knot
Oct 27 2013 10:19 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Show's on, Best Fans in Baseball!


Whoa!


I've long found Cardinal fans to be MUCH MORE negative than their constantly-sunny image suggests.

Zvon
Oct 27 2013 10:23 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
Show's on, Best Fans in Baseball!

Yikes!

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 10:26 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

#HowGame5WillEnd trending on Twitter. Worth checking out.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 27 2013 10:36 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Just a followup, the MLB International broadcast was not showing a Cardinals fan when Wong was picked off.

Frayed Knot
Oct 28 2013 06:29 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

So I wonder if any ESPN talking heads have credited Uehara with "a walk-off pick-off" yet.
Maybe 'How many' is a better question.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 28 2013 06:56 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Carpenter Good News: Six strikeouts and just two hits through three!

Carpenter Bad News: Those two hits were both doubles, and came back-to-back in the first.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 28 2013 07:03 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Another night of the biggest city in America tuned into Piscataway.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 28 2013 07:04 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Um, generous call by Bill Miller on a Lester 3-2 inside cutter cools the Cardinals' simmering stew. On to the fourth.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 28 2013 07:08 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Chris Carpenter's vocal timbre during his in-game dugout interview brings to mind a really, really really boring special edition of the old "Quiet Storm."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 28 2013 07:16 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

HOLLIDAY! CELEBRA-ATE!

metirish
Oct 28 2013 07:25 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Drew at the plate might yet cost his team...awful slump he's in.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 28 2013 08:09 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Salt-and-pepper beard with the ground rule double for an RBI!

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 28 2013 08:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Stretch time.

metirish
Oct 28 2013 08:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

You run Ross there?

3-1 Sox

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 28 2013 08:14 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Is Mike Matheny going all LaGenius by not relieving Wainwright there?

Frayed Knot
Oct 28 2013 08:14 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
You run Ross there?

3-1 Sox



I was thinking NO as the play was developing, mainly because it was Pedroia and Papi coming up and Ross isn't fast.
He did get a good jump though and the play was reasonably close despite a strong even if slightly off-line throw, so it's tough to second guess the call too much.

metirish
Oct 28 2013 08:18 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

It was close but the replay showed the throw was bad really, a good throw gets Ross by 20 feet?

Frayed Knot
Oct 28 2013 08:22 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

It's tags like that that make me fear increased replay rules.
I really don't want to see baseball get into the micro-managing that the NFL does where they're examining stuff that looks like a catch to every human on earth but the refs are looking at the super slo-mo as the announcers are saying: yeah the ball is in his arms but I think I see it wiggling slightly so maybe he doesn't have control ...

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 28 2013 08:28 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I think replay rules (in all sports) should have time limit. If you can't make a conclusive decision in 30 seconds, the call on the field stands.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 28 2013 08:29 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

You cannot stop Big Papi.

d'Kong76
Oct 28 2013 08:30 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

BIGPURPLEPapi is batting like .750 this series. Just saying.

metirish
Oct 28 2013 08:33 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Relax with the Pedro comparisons , Johnny Cueto and the other fella were the next Pedro's too.

seawolf17
Oct 28 2013 08:38 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Kong76 wrote:
BIGPURPLEPapi is batting like .750 this series. Just saying.

PAPI[/bigpurple]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 28 2013 08:43 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Koji Uehara is "loose" and "warm," according to old pervert Tim McCarver.

metirish
Oct 28 2013 08:46 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Hughie Hara is lights out

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 28 2013 08:49 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

That was an incredibly quick out. I swear I only saw two pitches.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 28 2013 08:49 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Dude's 38. 38!

Frayed Knot
Oct 28 2013 08:50 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

This game actually has a shot at coming in in under three hours!!

d'Kong76
Oct 28 2013 09:00 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Books! On to Beantown to finish off the birds-on-the-bat!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 28 2013 09:01 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Koji Uehara wants ALL the MVPs.

metirish
Oct 28 2013 09:02 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Hard to see them lose now....the closer is just unreal.

Frayed Knot
Oct 28 2013 09:03 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Uehara is fun to watch too: works fast, throws strikes, and a ton of emotion.
Looks like the happiest guy on the field.

metirish
Oct 28 2013 09:04 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

What's his history?

Frayed Knot
Oct 28 2013 09:05 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Funniest part about these interviews: in the pre-game how much shorter Ken Rosenthal is than whoever he interviews, and then Erin Andrews towering over Pedroia.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 28 2013 09:10 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
This game actually has a shot at coming in in under three hours!!


And THAT is the unexpected winner of the #HowGame5WillEnd contest!

Frayed Knot
Oct 28 2013 09:15 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
What's his history?


Five seasons over here, starting with Baltimore in 2009 where he was a starter.
Most recently he was cut by the Rangers at the end of last season and signed by Boston for a one year deal, then was famously their 4th choice for closer this year. Only been closing since July.

MFS62
Oct 28 2013 09:35 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

One of the announcers (Hersheiser on radio?) said that he has the lowest WHIP in major league history.

Later

Frayed Knot
Oct 29 2013 07:16 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

0.829 for his MLB career - and 0.71 if you take away his 1st season as a starter, the only season where his WHiP was over 1.00
As a reliever he's given up 128 hits in 219 regular season innings with 284 Ks vs 26 walks (almost an 11/1 ratio) all while barely breaking 90-mph


BB-Ref lists the cut-off for such all-time records at 1,000 innings.
The leaders, not surprisingly, are a couple of dead-ball era guys, a few modern relievers, ... and some guy named Pedro
1) Addie Joss - 0.9678
2) Ed Walsh - 0.9996
3) Mariano Rivera - 1.0003*
4) Monte Ward
5) Pedro Martinez
6) Christy Mathewson
7) Trevor Hoffman

Uehara, with just 286 IPs under his belt and about to turn 39 on opening day 2014, is almost certain never to get there; making your MLB debut at age 34 will do that to you.
HIs WHiP in Japan over 1,500+ IPs was a more pedestrian 1.007



* Rivera finished with 998 hits against + 286 walks [1,284 W+H] in 1,283-2/3 innings pitched. IOW, [u:2l0061n9]exactly ONE MORE[/u:2l0061n9] base-runners than IP.
I like to think of the three consecutive hits that Murphy, Wright, and then Duda's game winner laid on him back in May as the ones responsible for him being unable to finish below a 1.000 career WHiP, but the judges will also accept: David Wright's game-winning double or Matt Franco's delirious single as legitimate answers.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 29 2013 10:18 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Just an idle thought about the two cardinal birds sitting on the bat on the Cardinals uniform. It occurs to me that it makes sense to have two birds since the Cardinals team name is plural. The other bird teams - the Blue Jays and the Orioles - do not to my knowledge have a logo or uniform design with multiple iterations of their bird.

For teams with non-ornothological nicknames, the Twins by virtue of their name are all but required to feature more than one (and less than three) guys:


The Red Sox also show a pair of socks:


Oddly, the White Sox have had several iterations of a logo with just one sock:


Can anyone think of any other team logos or uniform designs where the team name is represented in a plural fashion?

G-Fafif
Oct 29 2013 11:37 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Roger Angell is blogging the 2013 World Series, for goodness sake.

Beards are kudzu.

Jonny Gomes’s beard—a brown frigate bird’s nest—is among the uglier sported by the hairy Sox this year, and when numbers of his teammates began grabbing it and ritually tugging on it upon his return to the dugout after his blast I was among a minority in the land who were hoping they’d pull it off. Gomes, a nice guy from Petaluma, California, has broad sloping shoulders and a pleasant, or O.K.-ish, everyday expression, but he’s shaved his head now, too, which doesn’t help, unless you’re eager to join the crowding recent hordes of the undead. C’mon, Jonny.

Gomes’s isn’t the worst Sox beard—the title goes to backup catcher David Ross, whose unkempt cabbage includes a clashing streak of white that cascades over his chin—perhaps relic of a childhood moment when he ran into his grandfather in the narrow back hall outside the bathroom. The other catcher, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, has a raggedy garden-border growth, in keeping with the encircling back-yard shrubbery of his hair. Mike Napoli’s beard is thickest; Dustin Pedroia’s the weirdest, since it comes with his desert-saint stare and that repeated on-deck or between-pitch mannerism of opening and stretching his mouth into a silent O: a screech owl with laryngitis.

I’m a gentle fellow, and intend no lasting hurts here. I admire Big Papi’s plunging mid-cheek parenthesis, which has been there for many seasons, of course, and now feels as familiar and locally reassuring as a statue by Daniel Chester French. I also offer praise for the angle-iron jawline wool sported by tonight’s Boston starter, Jon Lester: an aesthetic so clearly modelled on Gunnar Björnstrand’s trimmed-down growth while he portrayed Fredrik Egerman in Bergman’s “Smiles of a Summer Night.”

Can I ask a question? Where are the Red Sox wives or sweetie pies in all this? Have none of them spoken up—privately or in the Globe or in a thousand tweets—to protest this office fad? How does it feel to wake up, night after night, in immediate proximity to a crazed Pomeranian or a Malamute or an Old English sheepdog stubbornly adhering to the once caressable jaw of the guy on the nearest pillow? Doesn’t it scratch? Doesn’t it itch? Doesn’t it smell, however faintly, of tonight’s boeuf en daube or yesterday’s last pinch of Red Man? And what about the kids—how long can you keep putting them off with another recital of “The Three Little Pigs” or Edward Lear? Who does your husband/significant other think he is, anyway—Dostoyevsky? Brigham Young? Darwin? An Allman brother? Alexander Cartwright?

Come on, guys, think this over. Time to grow up. And what if you lose in the end this week, beards and all? Is this a lifetime commitment?

Hmmm. (Rubs chin.)


Sweetie pies!

G-Fafif
Oct 29 2013 11:44 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Angell on Game Three:

A line-drive double in the bottom of the ninth, whacked by pinch hitter Allen Craig on the first pitch from the previously impregnable Sox closer Koji Uehara, set up the last scene of the opera.

With Craig on second and Yadier Molina, who had singled, on third, John Jay hit a ground ball to second—not deep enough to deliver the slow-footed Molina, who was tagged out at the plate by Jarrod Saltalamacchia. The catcher, finding Craig approaching third base—he was slowed by an old ankle injury—fired there, perhaps in time to nail the runner, except that the ball went past the diving third baseman, Will Middlebrooks, and out into left field. Craig, scrambling to his feet again to head home, half-stumbled over the recumbent Middlebrooks before he could resume his gimping trip, and was out there, on the return peg—only he was not. Home-plate ump Dana DeMuth signalled “safe,” then pointed meaningfully to his colleague Jim Joyce, out at third, who had properly called the tangle an obstruction by Middlebrooks.

Shock. Rejoicing. Horror-struck Sox pleading. Game over. Sorry, guys, but the obstruction rule, as entrenched as Marbury v. Madison, does not require evil intent by the obstructionist. Craig, who had reinjured his ankle while sliding and believed himself out, can be forgiven for not quite understanding all the excitement around him. Not quite believing it remains true for us all. I could not recall a game ever ending this way, and neither could Tim McCarver or Joe Buck, up in the booth. Another First Ever, then, right to the gizzard for all of New England.

The Red Sox, returning to the field Sunday evening, might expect to find crime-scene tape surrounding home plate, third base, and much of left field.

G-Fafif
Oct 29 2013 11:49 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Angell on Game Two.

Good game last night, a certificate of the high-end excitement we demand in October. The imposing starters—sour-faced Boston veteran John Lackey and the Cardinals’ tall, twenty-two-year-old righty Michael Wacha—scooted us through a quick five innings, with most of the fans’ attention, I think, going to Wacha’s fastball, which comes out of his hand like an escaping barn swallow and slips, barely noticed, into the upper level of the strike zone. With a Sox runner aboard in the sixth, he chose a change-up, to David Ortiz, however, who deposited the ball just over the sill of the Green Monster, in left, for a shocking, reversing 2–1 Boston lead.

The night’s main news was just ahead, an unravelling little run of Cardinals élan and Sox mistakes in the top of the seventh: a one-out walk, a single, and—with a fresh pitcher, Craig Breslow, now dealing to the bottom of the order, shortstop Daniel Descalso—an astounding, scenario-changing double steal. Descalso walked, and when Matt Carpenter knocked a sacrifice, game-tying fly ball to left, the Bosox, on the instant, came apart. Jonny Gomes’s peg home, wide to the right, was misplayed by catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, allowing the ball to skip into foul ground, where it was snatched up by Breslow and flung wildly past third and into a left-field photographers’ booth. Three–two, St. Louis, now—and 4–2 when the next batter, Carlos Beltrán, hit a single.

This was almost all, it turned out, but there was time for me to award some multiple medals and cheek kissings in the manner of a French Maréchal. The daring front man in that Cardinals double steal was a pinch-runner, Pete Kozma, who had committed two errors while playing shortstop the night before: now he was back from Fort Ougadou. Beltrán, it will be remembered, had banged up his ribs in that same game when he smacked hard into the bullpen wall: taped up and unexpectedly back, he delivered two hits and the extra run. Croix de guerres, also, please, for Carlos Martinez, an excitable twenty-three-year- old Cardinals reliever, who struck out two batters in the eighth, and to the Cards’ manager, Mike Matheny, who left him in there to pitch to Ortiz, with a man aboard; Ortiz singled but to no avail.

Everything in this spirited Series is now changed—unless it isn’t. When play resumes on Saturday, the Cards will be on home ground, with the better pitching and no designated hitters. The teams are tied, but the Cardinals’ opportunism and the numbers of their kiddy participants—their closer, twenty-three-year-old Trevor Rosenthal, struck out the side in the ninth—make you feel as if they’re ahead.

G-Fafif
Oct 29 2013 11:53 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

And Angell on Game One:

World Series opening games can feel like a sunny day at Camp 6, a deserved picnic where we enjoy the fabulous views we’ve attained and contemplate the last push to the summit, but all images of the sort flew away quickly last night, when the inept Cardinals gave up five runs in the first two innings at Fenway Park, in the course of an 8–1 pasting by the Red Sox. Jon Lester, the lefty Boston starter, struck out eight Cards over seven and two thirds innings, and David Ortiz knocked a home run and a single and a sac, driving in three runs: thrilling star material on a better night, but only satisfactory here. The Cards, the best defensive team in the National League, were stinko, with three infield errors, two of them by shortstop Pete Kozma. The pattern of the game became clear when the veteran Cardinal starter Adam Wainwright could only smile wanly after allowing a feeble pop by Stephen Drew to drop like a thrombosed dove at his feet, to begin the Sox’ second. One never knows, do one, as Fats Waller said.

[...]

The Never Before moment arrived early, when Ortiz, the fourth Boston batter of the evening, hit a soft grounder to the right, where second baseman Matt Carpenter flipped to Kozma to begin a potential double play. When the ball came loose out there, second base umpire Dana DeMuth signalled that Kozma had held it long enough for the force, even though everyone in the northern hemisphere, including my watching fox terrier and I, could plainly see that Kozma had barely touched the toss with the tip of his glove. The out stood up, stare decisis—or would have in an earlier era of umpiric reasoning. Here, though, and to my amazement, five neighboring umps came circling in, like crows or undertakers, and, after consultation, DeMuthed the call—safe on an error, the out cancelled. Justice and common sense had prevailed (along with a snub to the possibility of instant electronic replay to decide such calls next year), but a part of me felt a twinge of loss. Umps should always be right, even when they aren’t. In their hearts, as Bill Klem said, they never missed a call.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 29 2013 11:56 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

thrombosed dove


I call dibs on this for my band name.

dinosaur jesus
Oct 29 2013 02:05 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Can someone explain that bit about David Ross's grandfather? Did the old guy just give him a scare, or does he mean something a lot nastier than that?

Frayed Knot
Oct 29 2013 02:19 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Can I ask a question? Where are the Red Sox wives or sweetie pies in all this? Have none of them spoken up—privately or in the Globe or in a thousand tweets—to protest this office fad?


They think about protesting but then see the paychecks their guys bring home and quickly change their minds.

Lefty Specialist
Oct 29 2013 02:20 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Damn, Roger Angell is 93. Looks like he's trying to get all the adjectives and extra commas out of his system before he himself thromboses.

G-Fafif
Oct 30 2013 09:15 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Angell, Game Five.

Big Papi continued to astound, with a run-scoring double on his first pitch of the evening, two singles, and a line-drive out. He is batting .733 for the series—as against a cumulative .151 for the rest of the Boston hitters—and now sometimes gives the impression that he is stopping by to play in these little entertainments, in the manner of a dad joining his daughter’s fifth-grade softball game. When he came up to bat once again in the sixth, Cardinals’ starter Adam Wainwright essayed some uncharacteristic little pauses and stutter steps on the mound, trying to throw off that implacable swing. It was like trying to disconcert winter.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 30 2013 12:16 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
What's his history?


Sports Illustrated has Koji's story.

m.e.t.b.o.t.
Oct 30 2013 03:00 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

when m.e.t.b.o.t. isn't languishing on a dusty shelf waiting to once again be permitted to perform schaefer voting tabulations, ideally for an entire season for once, or successfully avoiding the grabby hands of increasingly larger male children, m.e.t..b.o.t. occasionally likes to peruse the internet.

today, m.e.t.b.o.t. happened upon an interesting graphic generated by a website called regressing, which is apparently an offshoot of the deathspiral sport news aggregator website.

in it it presented the performances of the boston red sock designated batter david ortiz in their historical context, relative other world series hitters throughout history, in terms of WPA. m.e.t.b.o.t. is delighted to see this type of analysis.

more intestingly, it caused m.e.t.b.o.t. to perform further research.

specifically, m.e.t.b.o.t. followed the reference material to baseballreference.com and clicked around for a specific player's hsitorical post season WPA. this player is noted for his performance when clutched. this player has a significant number of postseason appearances - 158 games in total. therefore m.e.t.bo.t. assumed some meaningful data must lie therein. the player in question had a career postseason WPA of +0.017, or +0.00011 WPA per postseason game - effectively, the player's influence on the outcome of a postseason game throughout his career is negligble.

that player is derek jeter.

m.e.t.b.o.t. found this to be interesting.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 06:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Cardinals see no reason to run hard in the first. Why run hard when they are playing a perfect shift?

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 06:14 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser


love it.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 07:10 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Boom! Love the sound of that ball hitting the green monster. It could all end tonight folks.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 07:17 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

ooo,choke.

metirish
Oct 30 2013 07:18 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

That was very cool for Farrell to acknowledge McCarver during the in-game interview.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 07:22 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Twas. Freese froze. How could he not be ready for a fastball there?

metirish
Oct 30 2013 07:26 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Wacha is getting clattered....or whacked I guess.

Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2013 07:27 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I had an inkling Wacha's bubble was going to burst tonight.
Not that I expected him to get trashed or anything, just that his near-perfect stretch was due to come to an end.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 07:29 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Didn't want the Cards to win, but did want to see Wacha do well. Be fantastic even. But the Gods Of Baseball declare him pedestrian tonight.

metirish
Oct 30 2013 07:30 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Pedroia doesn't get cheated up there does he?

d'Kong76
Oct 30 2013 07:31 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Fear the BIGPURPLE Papi

metirish
Oct 30 2013 07:38 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Victorino up again with the bases loaded....curtains

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 07:38 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Damn it's gonna end tonight. Boston finally wins it in Boston. Good story.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 07:40 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

There is something a lil appealling about seeing St. Lou getting ASSWHUPPED!
lil bit.

metirish
Oct 30 2013 08:01 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

St. Louis needed to get some runs on the board right there....

metirish
Oct 30 2013 08:06 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Elsbury gets caught in a run down.......but runs, and runs and gets back to 1st.....terrible from St. Louis.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 08:07 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Too bad the best fans in baseball are stuck watching some pretty pathetic play from their team.

Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2013 08:18 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Zvon wrote:
Too bad the best fans in baseball are stuck watching some pretty pathetic play from their team.


I wonder if they'll blame it all on Matheny the way they used to blame it all on LaRussa.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 30 2013 08:19 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

In all seriousness, guys, John Lackey is a pretty fucking terrible "feel-good story."

Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2013 08:19 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

1st Otiz K in 10 post-season games ... Wow!!

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 08:25 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
1st Otiz K in 10 post-season games ... Wow!!

That is somethin' else.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 30 2013 08:42 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

"Lackey might be losing some steam here. Might want to consider taking him out, John."

-Grady Little

Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2013 08:47 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Even in the Game 7 2004/ALCS blowout in Yanqui Stadium, the Sox still managed to get themselves into a mini-dicey situation around the 7th inning (IIRC, it was when they brought Pedro in for an honorary inning of relief).

What saved them here is that Lackey got two quick outs to start the inning so that even the five consecutive hits & walk could only dent the lead so much ... but one more timely hit there and it was about to be nut-crunching time. The thing that sustained the Cardinals offense all year--ridonculous RiSP numbers--has deserted them in this series, but that's the nature of those sort of specialized stats especially in small samples.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 09:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
In all seriousness, guys, John Lackey is a pretty fucking terrible "feel-good story."

Can they play that up any more? He did do great but SHAADDUPalready. Why do I get the sense that Buck has like zero sense of humor? He could even make a joke sound serious.

Frayed Knot
Oct 30 2013 09:24 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Dancin' in the streets of Hyannis

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 09:25 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

YAY! Good series, good post season baseball. Gratz to Boston. Baseball's over again :(
*sob

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 30 2013 09:26 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

And there was much rejubiliation.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 09:29 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

These series ending celebrations look so generic anymore. Same as in the vid games. If I was a player on the last out I'd leap into the stands and jump around with the fans. If they won't let the fans to go on the field they should allow the players into the stands. Right after the last out. They all scatter to different sections and celebrate.

Mets Guy in Michigan
Oct 30 2013 09:40 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Looks like the fireworks might have been a mistake...

Gwreck
Oct 30 2013 09:44 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

A quick aside, I thought it telling that the first thing Jimmy Rollins thinks of re: Phillies fans was vandalism and violence.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 09:46 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

What must it feel like to be a little kid like that and have 40,000 people roar at your every word?

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 09:52 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Ortiz acts surprised when he's handed the keys of the gigantic truck right next to him. lol.

Zvon
Oct 30 2013 09:54 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

The MVP award is getting like receiving an oscar. That's nice.

Edgy MD
Oct 30 2013 10:40 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Gar-Batting Stance Guy wrote:
Guaranteed you RedSox would win title within 2 years of Bobby Valentine's hiring. #boom

G-Fafif
Oct 30 2013 11:28 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Congrats to the Willets Family. Sorry about Beltran.

Now on to The Spot. Jerry G.'s ready to go...



Somebody get a pitcher over and let's get going. Opening Day's in five months!

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 30 2013 11:51 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish
Oct 31 2013 06:38 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Congrats , certainly worthy champions , Cherington had some big boots to fill and has done an amazing job. Seriously I look at that roster and go wow, they won the World Series. Players I knew nothing about before the Playoffs but now like a lot....Uehara and Xander Bogaerts.

Frayed Knot
Oct 31 2013 07:23 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Cherington had some big boots to fill and has done an amazing job. Seriously I look at that roster and go wow, they won the World Series.


After last year's finish and the big trade-off of last summer, lots of folks were underwhelmed with their roster and picked them to finish at or near the bottom of the AL East. And while Cherrington et al have to get the credit for the results, anytime a team leads most of the season and winds up as the last one standing it means a helluva lot went right for them. You don't want to dismiss it as luck but good teams are usually good AND they're lucky.

Every one of the starting eight--starting ten really since they platooned in LF and at 3B--missed little or no time. Including:
- Napoli, whose 3-year deal was canceled when he failed his physical. They settled instead on a one-year deal for smaller bucks and he both played every day and adapted to 1B well. When injured deals like that don't work out (Moises Alou) the GM is derided as stupid.
- Peroia never missed a game.
- Drew at SS was another guy available because of past injuries. This year he got 500 PAs
- For 2008-2010 Papi (at age 32-34) averaged .257/.356/.498 -- So the Sox signed the 35 y/o to an extension and he goes .311/.401/.571 for 2011-2013 at ages 35, 36 & 37
It's easy to say deals like that are no-brainers after they work but supposing those years were the beginning of the end rather than a temporary lull?
- Ellsbury was on the field for twice as many ABs this season compared to last
- Iglesies was an all-glove SS hitting .202 in the minors when he was called up, he then hit .330/.376/.409 in Boston while filling in at two positions before getting dealt for Jake Peavy
- Four starters made 27 or more starts including Lackey who had missed all of 2012,
Only Buchholz among the regulars missed significant time (he made 16 starts)
- And the only place where they were really injured bit was in the pen where their 38 y/o fourth choice turned out to be the best closer in MLB once he got the job.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 31 2013 08:22 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

The flipside is that the 2012 team had a ridiculous numbers of injuries. With the solid core of the team healthy plus the new signings the "experts" should have been able to predict that the Red Sox would bounce back to having a winning record. I had predicted as much myself thinking they would be over .500 and possibly contend for the playoffs. I even won a bet with a friend when I said they'd have a better record than the Yankees. On the other hand I overestimated the improvements of the Blue Jays and Orioles.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 31 2013 09:07 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Another great cover, from the St. Louis side of the story.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 31 2013 09:27 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Shocked to see St. Louis media be so forthright with news that their club isn't the special-est.

I guess in the end they made a good run for a team with a crappy offense and heavy reliance on young pitching.

metirish
Oct 31 2013 09:38 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

The whole 1918 angle got annoying , as noted by Wolf on FB......

Here is the old guy that FOX were interviewing as if he were a random old guy.....maybe they thought he was


http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/201 ... story.html

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 31 2013 11:10 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Shocked to see St. Louis media be so forthright with news that their club isn't the special-est.

I guess in the end they made a good run for a team with a crappy offense and heavy reliance on young pitching.


Crappy offense? #2 in NL in BA, #1 in NL in OBA, #3 in NL in SLG, #2 in NL in OPS.

Mets – Willets Point
Oct 31 2013 11:20 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Wacha plunking Gomes was his first HBP of his career both majors & minors.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 31 2013 01:18 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Shocked to see St. Louis media be so forthright with news that their club isn't the special-est.

I guess in the end they made a good run for a team with a crappy offense and heavy reliance on young pitching.


Crappy offense? #2 in NL in BA, #1 in NL in OBA, #3 in NL in SLG, #2 in NL in OPS.


Uh, yeah. Whoops. Well, they didn't hit with Boston in this series.

G-Fafif
Oct 31 2013 04:47 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Roger, sixth game.

The Red Sox have taken their third World Championship in ten years, and the first clinched at Fenway Park since 1918. No trace remains of the Curse of the Bambino and accompanying New England paranoias that filled up our paragraphs and night thoughts for so many years. Winning almost all the time has a lot to be said for it, but not quite winning, barely missing again and again, keeps you whining and breathing, and might even be more fun in the end.

d'Kong76
Nov 02 2013 08:15 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Dow Jones Reprints: This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to your colleagues, clients or customers, use the Order Reprints tool at the bottom of any article or visit http://www.djreprints.com

Mind and Matter
World Series Recap: May Baseball's Irrational Heart Keep On Beating
Columnist Alison Gopnik on what moneyball thinking has failed to conquer in the sport.
By Alison Gopnik
Nov. 1, 2013 8:27 p.m. ET

The last 15 years have been baseball's Age Of Enlightenment. The quants and nerds brought reason and science to the dark fortress of superstition and mythology that was Major League Baseball. The new movement was pioneered by the brilliant Bill James (adviser to this week's World Champion Red Sox), implemented by Billy Beane (the fabled general manager of my own Oakland Athletics) and immortalized in the book and movie "Moneyball."

Over this same period, psychologists have discovered many kinds of human irrationality. Just those biases and foibles that are exploited, in fact, by the moneyball approach. So if human reason has changed how we think about baseball, it might be baseball's turn to remind us of the limits of human reason.

We overestimate the causal power of human actions. So, in the old days, managers assumed that gutsy, active base stealers caused more runs than they actually do, and they discounted the more passive players who waited for walks. Statistical analysis, uninfluenced by the human bias toward action, led moneyballers to value base-stealing less and walking more.

We overgeneralize from small samples, inferring causal regularities where there is only noise. So we act as if the outcome of a best-of-7 playoff series genuinely indicates the relative strength of two teams that were practically evenly matched over a 162-game regular season. The moneyballer doesn't change his strategy in the playoffs, and he refuses to think that playoff defeats are as significant as regular season success.

We confuse moral and causal judgments. Jurors think a drunken driver who is in a fatal accident is more responsible for the crash than an equally drunken driver whose victim recovers. The same goes for fielders; we fans assign far more significance to a dramatically fumbled ball than to routine catches. The moneyball approach replaces the morally loaded statistic of "errors" with more meaningful numbers that include positive as well as negative outcomes.

By avoiding these mistakes, baseball quants have come much closer to understanding the true causal structure of baseball, and so their decisions are more effective.

But does the fact that even experts make so many mistakes about baseball prove that human beings are thoroughly irrational? Baseball, after all, is a human invention. It's a great game exactly because it's so hard to understand, and it produces such strange and compelling interactions between regularity and randomness, causality and chaos.

Most of the time in the natural environment, our evolved learning procedures get the right answers, just as most of the time our visual system lets us see the objects around us accurately. In fact, we really only notice our visual system on the rare occasions when it gives us the wrong answers, in perceptual illusions, for instance. A carnival funhouse delights us just because we can't make sense of it.

Baseball is a causal funhouse, a game designed precisely to confound our everyday causal reasoning. We can never tell just how much any event on the field is the result of skill, luck, intention or just grace. Baseball is a machine for generating stories, and stories are about the unexpected, the mysterious, even the miraculous.

Sheer random noise wouldn't keep us watching. But neither would the predictable, replicable causal regularities we rely on every day. Those are the regularities that evolution designed us to detect. But what can even the most rational mind do but wonder at the absurdist koan of the obstruction call, with its dizzying mix of rules, intentions and accidents, that ended World Series Game 3?

The truly remarkable thing about human reasoning isn't that we were designed by evolution to get the right answers about the world most of the time. It's that we enjoy trying to get the right answers so profoundly that we intentionally make it hard for ourselves. We humans, uniquely, invent art-forms serving no purpose except to stretch the very boundaries of rationality itself.

Copyright 2013 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved

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Edgy MD
Nov 02 2013 10:08 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Theamtically, I like and agree with this very much. Outcomes are very humbling, but Bill James' team nonetheless has won three times this decade. But outcomes remain very humbling.

But the author doesn't really get to her thesis, leaving it implied until maybe paragraph 16. I'm still not sure what it is.

Mets – Willets Point
Nov 02 2013 11:03 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Red Sox parade stops on Boylston Street to honor victims of Boston Marathon bombing: http://www.boston.com/video/viral_page/ ... ame=823527

Edgy MD
Nov 02 2013 12:15 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

With all respect, that's sort of weird way to approach a somber moment.

Not to be old-guy (who am I kidding?), but the carefully stylized rebelliously affected look as he approaches just makes it all cheaper to me.

Frayed Knot
Nov 03 2013 09:03 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Most recent World Series without an American-born black player: 1950 ... 2013

Mets – Willets Point
Nov 03 2013 10:46 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Edgy MD wrote:
With all respect,


Words used inevitably by someone who is about to be disrespectful.



Edgy MD wrote:

Not to be old-guy (who am I kidding?), but the carefully stylized rebelliously affected look as he approaches just makes it all cheaper to me.




Perhaps it's less to do with your age and more to do with your innate cynicism about anything that is meaningful to other peopel

SteveJRogers
Nov 03 2013 11:00 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Frayed Knot wrote:
Most recent World Series without an American-born black player: 1950 ... 2013


Expect that to be part of the ammunition for the "baseball is no longer the sport of choice to participate in or watch in that demographic."

I don't think that is something that should be dismissed as TV ratings are though.

Edgy MD
Nov 03 2013 05:56 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Mets – Willets Point wrote:
Edgy MD wrote:
With all respect,


Words used inevitably by someone who is about to be disrespectful.



Edgy MD wrote:

Not to be old-guy (who am I kidding?), but the carefully stylized rebelliously affected look as he approaches just makes it all cheaper to me.



Perhaps it's less to do with your age and more to do with your innate cynicism about anything that is meaningful to other peopel

You've really got to stop that nonsense and try talking to people online like they're human beings.

The guy approached the line to make a solemn presentation like he was a goofy drunk. He was in the midst of a celebration, and that's hard to mix with solemnity but can make for a symbolically awkward image. That's actually how I feel because I care, not because of " innate cynicism about anything that is meaningful to other peopel." Fucking hell, what did I do to deserve THAT?

Mets – Willets Point
Nov 04 2013 07:18 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

It made me weep. I found it very moving.

Edgy MD
Nov 04 2013 07:41 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I'm glad for that.

themetfairy
Nov 04 2013 08:02 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

As a runner, and during the weekend of the New York City Marathon (which suffered its own problems last year, albeit not the same as the Boston Marathon's), I also found it to be a moving and appropriate gesture.

Edgy MD
Nov 04 2013 09:48 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Cherington had some big boots to fill and has done an amazing job. Seriously I look at that roster and go wow, they won the World Series.


After last year's finish and the big trade-off of last summer, lots of folks were underwhelmed with their roster and picked them to finish at or near the bottom of the AL East. And while Cherrington et al have to get the credit for the results, anytime a team leads most of the season and winds up as the last one standing it means a helluva lot went right for them. You don't want to dismiss it as luck but good teams are usually good AND they're lucky.

Every one of the starting eight--starting ten really since they platooned in LF and at 3B--missed little or no time. Including:
- Napoli, whose 3-year deal was canceled when he failed his physical. They settled instead on a one-year deal for smaller bucks and he both played every day and adapted to 1B well. When injured deals like that don't work out (Moises Alou) the GM is derided as stupid.
- Peroia never missed a game.
- Drew at SS was another guy available because of past injuries. This year he got 500 PAs
- For 2008-2010 Papi (at age 32-34) averaged .257/.356/.498 -- So the Sox signed the 35 y/o to an extension and he goes .311/.401/.571 for 2011-2013 at ages 35, 36 & 37
It's easy to say deals like that are no-brainers after they work but supposing those years were the beginning of the end rather than a temporary lull?
- Ellsbury was on the field for twice as many ABs this season compared to last
- Iglesies was an all-glove SS hitting .202 in the minors when he was called up, he then hit .330/.376/.409 in Boston while filling in at two positions before getting dealt for Jake Peavy
- Four starters made 27 or more starts including Lackey who had missed all of 2012,
Only Buchholz among the regulars missed significant time (he made 16 starts)
- And the only place where they were really injured bit was in the pen where their 38 y/o fourth choice turned out to be the best closer in MLB once he got the job.

The mother of all "Do what the Sox do" articles from Kevin Kernan.

Kevin Kernan’s column at the New York Post today is a treat. It praises the Red Sox’ approach and basically says “the Yankees and Mets need to do what the Red Sox just did if they want to win the World Series.”

Which, yes, I will agree 100% that if the Yankees and Mets want to win the World Series they SHOULD do what the Sox just did: they should win four World Series games before their World Series opponents do. That’s really the only way to do it.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/ ... h-do-that/

Frayed Knot
Nov 04 2013 10:45 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

It's just that these columns are so predictable.
- Every year some team wins the World Series
- Most years it's a different team with its own, if not unique, approach then at least one with an individual variation on a particular strategy
- What most if not all of those winners had in common is that a shit-load of stuff went right for them; some of it planned, some of it out of the blue.

And then after the conclusion of the season multiple writers will lecture about how this is the model to copy.
In this case they're being written as if signing an oft-injured Napoli, an oft-injured Drew, an aging Victorino, re-signing a really aging Ortiz, relying on a catching tandem of Saltalamacchia & Ross, hoping for a bounce back from Lackey (the most hated man in New England a year ago at this time) or continued luck with Lester & Buchholz all couldn't have gone incredibly wrong and thus be held up as a model of what NOT to do with a team coming off a 90+ loss season.

Lefty Specialist
Nov 04 2013 02:23 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Sure, all that's true, but I watched them win that World Series and I said to myself, "Bobby Valentine will never manage again".

Edgy MD
Nov 04 2013 02:28 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Maybe not. He sure seemed spent by the end, and laid bare to the point where you wouldn't want to be the next GM looking foolish by getting caught up in his orbit, looking like you bought into his BS. But I wouldn't put it past him to do something crazy like manage Italy or Colombia or Sierra Leone or somebody into the finals of the World Baseball Classic.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Nov 04 2013 02:38 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

I thought the broadcasting gig at SNY could provide a tiny path toward redemption, but I don;t think the exposure gave him enough presence. He needs to step that up a little while also keeping one eye on the degree of outrageousness of his remarks. Slowly build it all up and before long look like the obvious choice to succeed Terry.

Edgy MD
Nov 04 2013 02:50 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Yabbut, at 63, and as restless as he always seems to be, I wonder if he has the patience for the long game.

metirish
Nov 04 2013 04:12 PM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

Surely Bobby gets at least some credit for the great purge of asshole players the Sox got rid of?

Mets – Willets Point
Nov 05 2013 08:10 AM
Re: Same Old Same Old Same Old: Threading the 2013 World Ser

metirish wrote:
Surely Bobby gets at least some credit for the great purge of asshole players the Sox got rid of?


It's kind of my belief that Francona's laissez faire management style contributed to the players playing with their heads up their ass and the dissolution of 2011. Valentine was the man who had to clean that up and received a lot of the ire of the players, media, and fans as a result. At the very least he was the lightning rod that drew everyone's hatred and thus served as a unifying factor.