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Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta
John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 07 2013 10:45 AM |
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Ken Davidoff sez:
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Lefty Specialist Nov 07 2013 10:51 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Mets don't have a problem with substance abusers, as Marlon Byrd and Guillermo Mota can attest. But I'm betting someone else snatches him up. Tigers are set at short for a while and didn't need him.
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metirish Nov 07 2013 10:53 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 07 2013 10:59 AM |
Kudos Jhonny
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 07 2013 10:56 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
I don't wan't a douchy PED guy on our team but he might be the best option at SS for us.
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Frayed Knot Nov 07 2013 10:57 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
I'm not sure how many SS days Peralta has ahead of him at this stage. His range was never the greatest to begin with and no one gets quicker as they get older and thicker (turns 32 early next season).
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Fman99 Nov 07 2013 11:00 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
I'm getting thicker just thinking about these potential lineup improvements.
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Edgy MD Nov 07 2013 11:12 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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Sometimes PED guys do. Just saying.
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themetfairy Nov 07 2013 11:23 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
I'm opposed to signing him until he learns how to spell Johnny correctly.
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Mex17 Nov 17 2013 07:55 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 17 2013 09:44 AM |
Trying here to gauge the market on Peralta. Looking at it team by team, this is what I came up with:
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Ceetar Nov 17 2013 08:24 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
are the Tigers definitely out?
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Mex17 Nov 17 2013 08:26 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Oops, forgot the Tigers. They traded for Jose Iglesias, so yes, I would think they are out.
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Mex17 Nov 17 2013 08:34 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
He wants MORE than 3/$45, which I think is ridiculous. I see him as a three for $24-$27-$30 or at the most four for $32-$36-$40, but I am afraid that the low supply of shortstops (basically him and Drew) will drive the market higher than his "worth" based on on field performance.
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Mex17 Nov 17 2013 11:06 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
After thinking about it, maybe I would go as high as 4 for $48-$50. That is technically higher than the 3 for $45 threshhold that I read about but keeps him from being a $15 per year player, which he is not.
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Frayed Knot Nov 17 2013 12:12 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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No he doesn't. The concept of believing that certain guys, even ones who might be the best available at a particular position at the moment, are indispensable is what leads to contracts of four years starting at age 32 for someone who may already be nearing their last days as a SS. If the competition for him is a slim as you suspect then there's no reason why he needs to be a $50 million player. And if the bidding from one team does start to get to such "ridiculous" levels then it's better to walk away on the theory that it's easier to recover from the player you fail to sign than it is to recover from the one you sign at the wrong price, a theory that's particularly true when you're talking about multiple years. The future of the franchise does not depend on Jhonny Peralta being in a Met uniform next year. I'll take him if I can get him but, if not, you live with an alternative and try to improve the team by spending your allowance elsewhere.
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Ashie62 Nov 17 2013 12:42 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 17 2013 01:31 PM |
Being that the SS alternatives are underwhelming for 2014 I would make a serious run at Peralta. It is quite an upgrade to Tejada and Qball. Wilfredo Tovar could work out just fine; experienced and taking over in 3-4 years...
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Zvon Nov 17 2013 01:19 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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Well put. I'm with FK on this.
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Ashie62 Nov 17 2013 01:32 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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Do you have a place where you might start?
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Edgy MD Nov 17 2013 03:06 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
I don't think Alderson has a "We're just going to fill holes" mantra.
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Frayed Knot Nov 17 2013 03:39 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 17 2013 03:55 PM |
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In short: Elsewhere. - You try other, maybe lesser, FAs: Drew, minor league FAs, roster cuts, DFIs, DNRs, whoever. - You try trade possibilities (will Baltimore move Hardy to make way for Machado?) at either the major or minor league levels - Or you return with Tejada and hope he either bounces back or that a different alternative comes up at a later date. At this time last year no one here (or anywhere else that I know of) was thinking of Eric Young, Marlon Byrd and Juan Lagares as the Mets everyday OFers, or that that trio would be 3rd, 4th & 5th on the entire team in ABs. Things change, and the 2014 rosters aren't required to be set in cement prior to Turkey Day. The point here isn't to say that Peralta won't be an upgrade--of course he would be--only that he's not a 'do whatever it takes' kind of guy or the final piece of the puzzle that we "have to get" now because he'll make such a difference in the 2014 season anymore than Michael Bourn* would have been that guy for the 2013 team. You don't want to get into a deal that he becomes a detriment to the budget in the short term or to the roster three or four years down the road, and if that means you don't improve the roster at SS this winter then so be it. In the meantime, you husband the resources (both financial and human) that would have gone to that spot and use them to improve the roster somewhere else. * Would Bourn have been even a two-win** addition to last year's team? ... and, if so, would that have been worth the multi-year deal ($48 mil through 2016 plus a vesting option for '17), the loss of the draft pick, and maybe the overlooking (or trading?) of Lagares simply because he was the best guy out there and the call to "do something" from the fans and the press needing scratching, even if it were partly just for pr purposes? ** Not according to BB-Ref, who list Bourn's offensive WAR at less than 2 wins better than Lagares, a gap which is then wiped out and more by Juan's advantage in defensive WAR
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Edgy MD Nov 17 2013 03:46 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Do calls need scratching? This isn't one of them nufangled smartphones I've been reading about, is it?
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Frayed Knot Nov 17 2013 03:56 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Scratch 'n Sniff phones baby, they're the wave of the future!!
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Edgy MD Nov 17 2013 04:17 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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For what it's worth, that draft pick turned out to be Dominic Smith, who you may never hear from again, but 50 games into his career, is already tagged by Baseball America as the Mets fourth-best prospect and behind only D'Arnaud among non-pitchers.
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Zvon Nov 17 2013 05:08 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
If we get a shortstop, great. It's sad to say almost anyone would be an upgrade. But if we don't I am all in favor of giving Tejeda another shot. He's so young at 24. He can do a decent job, we've seen him do it. In limited play he batted over .280 in both 2011 and '12. It's keeping him on the field and a slightly immature attitude (that's my opinion) that's been a problem. But he's only 24. He really should mature and develop into a solid starting shortstop. There's only one thing stopping him. Himself. I'd be fine with giving him a few months to show if he can get there with us or not. Short leash though.
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Ashie62 Nov 17 2013 06:09 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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FK...I just don't believe the approach you are endorsing is aggressive enough...
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Ashie62 Nov 17 2013 06:49 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Getting Peralta is not going to make or break the 2014 Mets but I don't believe a strategy primarily of "getting lucky" with guys like lesser looked at players Byrd and Young is going to lead to championship baseball.
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Mex17 Nov 17 2013 07:05 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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Agreed. Even though I also agree in theory with a lot of what FK is saying, I also recognize that there is risk in that approach just as there is risk in signing the wrong guy to the wrong contract. You can conceivably look at everyone, point out the flaws in each one, take pass after pass, and end up with no one at the end of the day. I think the problem with trying to trade for a shortstop (like, for example Ike for JJ Hardy or Yuniel Escobar. . .two possibilities that I have seen floated) is that you would use pieces in that trade that could be used to net a 2nd corner outfielder (after and assuming that we sign one as a free agent). I am an Alderson supporter (I like the fact that a centered, patient, intellectual is making the calls), but allow me to rephrase the point that I attempted to make earlier. When he came here, there were a lot of problems. Shortstop was not one of them. That became a problem on his watch. Although it was not totally his fault (the financial issues of The Three Stooges had something to do with it as well), part of the reasoning that led to letting the previous shortstop go was that it was believed (and we were told) that there was an in-house solution in place. That in-house solution failed and has now been emasculated publically more than once by the General Manager. In short, we had a shortstop, we got rid of that one because we thought we had another one, we didn't, and now we need a shortstop. . .desperately. That is on Alderson to solve.
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Edgy MD Nov 17 2013 07:11 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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They are. The point is to dial the back the success-or-bust talk.
I don't think it's convenient at all. He's the last guy folks demanded the Mets land to prove they are serious. The team backed off when the bidding became too steep, and they probably ended up helping the team for several years. The Mets should land the right players at the right price and hopefully not to prove anything to anybody. There are many ways to spend the money they have --- short, pitching, outfield. But there is limited amount to spend, and I've got no problem with walking away when the bidding gets too steep.
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Mex17 Nov 17 2013 07:14 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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If Murphy goes in a trade, I have no problem throwing Tejada in a competition along with Young and Flores for the second base job. I just don't think that you can unconditionally hand him a starting position on a silver platter again (at either of the two positions). He has already displayed that he cannot self motivate himself in those circumstances.
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Frayed Knot Nov 17 2013 08:48 PM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
* Not aggressive enough --- I'm not saying to back away from Peralta, I'm saying that there's a point (that there's ALWAYS a point) where you have to be willing to say no; that he's not a "have to have" guy simply because he's the flavor of the month best option. What could very well be worse than NOT having him at age 32 is STILL having him at age 36. Aggressive doesn't have to mean reckless.
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Mex17 Nov 18 2013 04:35 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Well, this is certainly not encouraging.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 18 2013 04:52 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
If he doesn't get his act together, he may be a free agent well before 2016.
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Frayed Knot Nov 18 2013 07:09 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
It did seem odd at the time that the Mets were slow in bringing back Ruben in September.
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MFS62 Nov 18 2013 07:15 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
He's mulling over filing a grievance because the Mets wouldn't bring him up to play?
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Edgy MD Nov 18 2013 07:21 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Even if Tejada doesn't get to free agency as a Met, he's a more valuable asset to them if and when they trade him, with one more year of control for the team he's going to.
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Frayed Knot Nov 18 2013 07:31 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
The team has a better argument from the rookie standpoint in that they can always claim that we just didn't think he was ready yet.
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Edgy MD Nov 18 2013 07:37 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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Except that teams have taken to more or less explicitly admitting when they are intentionally delaying arbitration.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 18 2013 07:38 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Tejada should take 'em to court. I hope he wins too, and that extra hundred grand or whatever is what bankrupts Fred and Saul for good.
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Ceetar Nov 18 2013 07:49 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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Indeed, and it's not like they weren't playing a worse option. Does whatever value they gain over that extra year of free agency really offset the damage they've done via leaving him down, and being so down on him overall? Everyone knows the Mets don't value him very much, so why would they give up anything to get him? This is made even worse if they get a SS like Peralta. To me it almost looks like they're going going all or nothing with Tejada. He'll get some reps this season and become marketable or useful, or they'll sever ties.
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Mex17 Nov 24 2013 05:42 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Nov 24 2013 07:59 AM |
Word is that Peralta has agreed with the Cardinals. No news yet on what the terms are, but there was a rumor a few days ago that he had a four for $52 offer on the table (only $2 million more than what I said would be my celing for him).
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 24 2013 05:43 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
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Maybe you're right, but BLAH! That's the kind of decision that leads to another 73-win season.
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Ashie62 Nov 24 2013 10:40 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
With Peralta gone and Drew unattainable...Ruben must be feeling pretty good..me? Not so much..
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 24 2013 11:00 AM Re: Allow Us to Exchange Remarks on... Jhonny Peralta |
Well... there's always Furcal.
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