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If not, then who?

Edgy MD Nov 09 2013 04:22 PM

If reports suggesting that the Mets are ready to pay full freight on somebody are accurate, then who? Folks seem to be backing off of assumed price tags on Granderson and Choo. But if the team's going to bite the bullet, and Honus Wagner isn't out there, who do you make your check out to? Certainly an alternative to the free agent marketplace is the trade-and-sign option, or even trading for a guy already signed to a prohibitively large contact. But who?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 09 2013 07:04 PM Re: If not, then who?

Kemp and Either have big contracts and could arrive by trade. Both would probably require the Dodgers eat some $$ to make it palatable but that could be one way to spend the dough. I think the significant stuff almost has to happen by trade, just given the FA class this year and the Mets' needs.

Edgy MD Nov 09 2013 07:49 PM Re: If not, then who?

That's brain thinking. Who else has something for me? Keep 'em coming. Think like GM. A creative GM.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 09 2013 08:19 PM Re: If not, then who?

Edgy MD wrote: But who? Depends. What's the goal? To win the World Series next season? To win the World Series in three years? To make the playoffs next season? To build a team that'll contend for several seasons? To make more money? To draw more fans? How many more fans? I suppose I'm simplifying because there's probably more than one goal. I'd guess that the owners mainly wanna make money, and to the extent that they might then try and build a championship caliber team, it's only because they must believe that championship caliber teams make more money than crappy teams. There's an old Walter O'Malley story about some Dodgers insiders talking baseball in the aftermath of the '66 World Series. The Dodgers had just been swept in four games by the Baby Birds, and the insiders speculated that O'Malley was dissapointed in the Series outcome -- not because his Dodgers lost the World Series, but because the Series only went the minimum four games, thus depriving O'Malley out of millions of dollars in revenue.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 10 2013 05:05 AM Re: If not, then who?

My hunch, despite the recent rumored overture to Furcal, would be Peralta or Drew.

Mex17 Nov 10 2013 05:26 AM Re: If not, then who?

Here are some creative ideas that Harper threw out. Not sure if I like all of them, but I might just need time to process. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... -1.1512130 As for me, at the moment I like Grandy and Peralta, plus the Davis for Aoki trade that Sherman floated. Cruz could be an option as well, or Byrd for another year while they wait out Harvey's year off (then revisit using the young pitching depth for a blockbuster next winter).

MFS62 Nov 10 2013 07:49 AM Re: If not, then who?

There have been several stories about the Mets trying to obtain Tulowitzki and/ or Gonzales from the Rockies. But why not Cuddyer? He's 33,on the last year (or two) of his contract, and a right handed power hitter who has also played first base. Oh, and one more thing. He and David Wright are long time friends. (Read that's why David added him to the NL team for the Home Run Derby) Of all the "short term" players they might go after, Michael might be the only one who they could entice into staying after his current contract expires. With Helton retiring, wouldn't the Rockies need a first baseman(IKE)? If a deal is being discussed for Tulo, why not broaden the scope? Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 10 2013 08:10 AM Re: If not, then who?

I also think Cuddyer makes sense. would strongly doubt he comes with tulo but maybe a pitcher or something.

Mex17 Nov 10 2013 08:55 AM Re: If not, then who?

There is no deal being discussed for Tulo. It's all media speculation that has been debunked by Colorado's owner (who flat out said that they are NOT trading him).

Frayed Knot Nov 10 2013 10:25 AM Re: If not, then who?

Mex17 wrote: There is no deal being discussed for Tulo. It's all media speculation that has been debunked by Colorado's owner (who flat out said that they are NOT trading him). [Mofo]Well then, dammit, why the hell didn't [crossout]Phillips[/crossout], [crossout]Omar[/crossout], Sandy make a deal for him when he was available!?!?! I heard we could have had him for Valdespin[/Mofo]

Zvon Nov 10 2013 02:32 PM Re: If not, then who?

MFS62 wrote: There have been several stories about the Mets trying to obtain Tulowitzki and/ or Gonzales from the Rockies. But why not Cuddyer? He's 33,on the last year (or two) of his contract, and a right handed power hitter who has also played first base. Oh, and one more thing. He and David Wright are long time friends. (Read that's why David added him to the NL team for the Home Run Derby) Of all the "short term" players they might go after, Michael might be the only one who they could entice into staying after his current contract expires. With Helton retiring, wouldn't the Rockies need a first baseman(IKE)? If a deal is being discussed for Tulo, why not broaden the scope? Later I like Cuddyer too. If they were to get him then they can get all kinds of creative with some of the spare parts around first base.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 10 2013 03:14 PM Re: If not, then who?

I like the Davis-for-Aoki deal, I do. But, then, why the hell would the Brewers want it?

Frayed Knot Nov 10 2013 03:36 PM Re: If not, then who?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I like the Davis-for-Aoki deal, I do. But, then, why the hell would the Brewers want it? Semi-filled OF with the return of Braun, the emergence of Gomez and a couple of young'uns; need of 1B power since the departure of Prince; desire to get younger

Frayed Knot Nov 10 2013 09:35 PM Re: If not, then who?

Jon Harper at the Snooze throws out a bunch of WATPs, which you're free to take or leave. But he does suggest one thing I hadn't considered, and that's that the Orioles have uber-talented Manny Machado playing out of position at 3B. Now he did win the Gold Glove there but if you've got a guy who can play SS then you should play him at SS, all of which may make current SS incumbent JJ Hardy available. Hardy, like Machado, is coming off a GG/SS/AS year, turned 31 in August and has $7 mil remaining in the final year of his current deal. Not a high-OBA guy, but a decent amount of power (52 XBHs in 2013) and has revived his career after somewhat losing his way after a splash start in Milwaukee back in 2007-08.

Edgy MD Nov 11 2013 05:38 AM Re: If not, then who?

Wilmer Flores straight up!

Ashie62 Nov 11 2013 08:31 PM Re: If not, then who?

Some interweb yap about Choo and Drew to the Mets...and Ike to Milwaukee...

MFS62 Nov 11 2013 10:09 PM Re: If not, then who?

Ashie62 wrote: Some interweb yap about Choo and Drew to the Mets...and Ike to Milwaukee... If the Mets can bag Choo, Drew and Aoki (presumable for Ike), along with a starter like Arroyo, I'd consider it a successful hunting season. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 12 2013 06:07 AM Re: If not, then who?

If the Mets can bag Drew, Choo, and Aoki (along with Arroyo), I'll braise and eat my Mookie jersey like it was venison.

metirish Nov 12 2013 06:30 AM Re: If not, then who?

Alderson said at the winter meetings that the Mets will not be doling out $100 million contracts.....I think this is good.

Edgy MD Nov 17 2013 08:17 PM Re: If not, then who?

This article had Doug Melvin acknowledging the Mets and their alleged first base glut makes them an attractive trading partner. The first, and so far only, comment made proposes Ike for Jean Segura and cash. Um... I'm not particularly averse to that on the face of it.

Vic Sage Nov 18 2013 01:55 PM Re: If not, then who?

ha...yeah. like they'd do THAT. sure, sign me up!

Edgy MD Nov 18 2013 02:19 PM Re: If not, then who?

You think you can polish Ike up enough to swing a deal for Aoki? He's sort of a pedestrian acquisition, just good enough to call a starter. A modest improvement on Eric Young, but not so much when you take Young's relative youth and defensive flexibility into account. Ike's been a disaster too much over the last three years, but still has potential to excel. Do you want to move him for more potential, or a guy like Aoki who is more of a sure thing, if an underwhelming one?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 18 2013 02:36 PM Re: If not, then who?

I think you try to trade Ike for some other team's Ike. Swap ceiling for ceiling, suck for suck.

Edgy MD Nov 18 2013 02:48 PM Re: If not, then who?

I think maybe. The alternative is risk averse, but your approach is kinda shame averse.

Ceetar Nov 18 2013 02:51 PM Re: If not, then who?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think you try to trade Ike for some other team's Ike. Swap ceiling for ceiling, suck for suck. Starling Castro?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 18 2013 09:29 PM Re: If not, then who?

Here's where Markakis looks pretty good.

Ashie62 Nov 18 2013 10:17 PM Re: If not, then who?

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think you try to trade Ike for some other team's Ike. Swap ceiling for ceiling, suck for suck. Starling Castro? Do you mean trade a problem for a problem here? Starlin may be a pain in the ass but the Cubs would likely be looking for a generous bounty to move him...

Edgy MD Nov 18 2013 10:18 PM Re: If not, then who?

Think Milwaukee here for a moment, though. With the Brewers openly lusting after the Mets first base glut (I know, right?), I was just trying to see what we could best hope for there.

Ashie62 Nov 18 2013 10:19 PM Re: If not, then who?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Here's where Markakis looks pretty good. I would expect Nick to be reasonably priced, but then again it is 2013...

Ashie62 Nov 18 2013 10:21 PM Re: If not, then who?

Edgy MD wrote: Think Milwaukee here for a moment, though. With the Brewers openly lusting after the Mets first base glut (I know, right?), I was just trying to see what we could best hope for there. lusting? I don't believe their interest in Met 1B's is that frothy...I haven't seen anything beyond Ike-Aoki..Maybe I missed something.. in twitterland. I do like Aoki..

Edgy MD Nov 18 2013 10:38 PM Re: If not, then who?

At the beginning of this extension of the thread, I linked an article quoting Doug Melvin, "They’ve indicated that they have extra first basemen, and we have a need,” Melvin said. “Again, it’s all about keeping your options open. … Nothing imminent, and I don’t anticipate anything imminent. But first base is one of our needs, they have excess first basemen, so you can tie two and two together — and come up with three.” While "lusting" is an embellishment, that quote was what I was what led me to solicit opinions earlier about possible matchups.

Ashie62 Nov 19 2013 03:51 AM Re: If not, then who?

Edgy MD wrote: At the beginning of this extension of the thread, I linked an article quoting Doug Melvin, "They’ve indicated that they have extra first basemen, and we have a need,” Melvin said. “Again, it’s all about keeping your options open. … Nothing imminent, and I don’t anticipate anything imminent. But first base is one of our needs, they have excess first basemen, so you can tie two and two together — and come up with three.” While "lusting" is an embellishment, that quote was what I was what led me to solicit opinions earlier about possible matchups. okie dokey....

Benjamin Grimm Nov 19 2013 04:19 AM Re: If not, then who?

I can't see any way that this is gonna happen. Ken Davidoff, New York Post wrote: Changing his stripes? Mets, Jay Z hold secret meeting about Cano Robinson Cano a Met? It sounds outlandish on the surface, but Cano put his best man on the job Monday night. Yes, it turns out Jay Z is as hands-on as promised. So hands-on he’s willing to shop his client across the RFK Bridge into Flushing. The hip-hop impresario joined Mets COO Jeff Wilpon, general manager Sandy Alderson and assistant general manager John Ricco for dinner at a posh Manhattan hotel to discuss Cano’s free agency, two sources familiar with the situation told The Post. Cano’s group, which also featured agents Brodie Van Wagenen and Juan Perez, initiated the meeting; Cano himself didn’t attend. Alderson went on record last week to say he couldn’t envision the Mets taking on another player with a nine-figure contract to join David Wright, and Cano sure as heck wants nine figures. He asked the Yankees for a 10-year, $310 million contract, and the Yankees countered with a seven-year offer for between $161 and $168 million. The Yankees have not held extensive talks with Cano’s representatives since free agency began, and they’re unlikely to be unnerved by this meeting, given the Mets’ stated salary-commitment intentions and their payroll-slashing of the last three years. The Mets have a capable second baseman in Daniel Murphy, but it isn’t the presence of Murphy that would block Cano; Murphy could be traded. Rather, it’s Cano’s demands and desires, not to mention his love of the Yankees, that make this a shaky bet. So Cano going to the Mets remains a distinct long shot. The Mets simply had little to lose by agreeing to this meeting. And Jay Z, a rookie sports representative, could test out his pitch on a club that is ultimately unlikely to land his client. Jay Z has made it clear his representation of Cano is about marketing as well as baseball, and staying in New York with the Mets would afford Cano the many marketing opportunities the Big Apple offers. Of course, the Yankees remain the city’s top baseball team even after missing the playoffs for the first time in five years, and Cano’s brand-expansion potential — both short-term, given the Yankees’ pursuit of big-name free agents and long-term, given the benefits of a career spent exclusively in the Bronx — looms considerably larger by sticking with the Yankees. While Cano ranks as the undisputed top free agent of this Hot Stove season, his precise market has been a mystery. Natural-fitting, high-spending clubs like Detroit, Texas (which could trade from its middle-infield depth for starting pitching) and Washington have yet to proclaim themselves as interested. It’s possible, as The Post’s Joel Sherman suggested last week, Cano might have to wait for his fellow top free agents Shin-Soo Choo and Jacoby Ellsbury to sign contracts so the suitors for Cano become more clear. The operations of Cano’s agent, too, have been a mystery, given Jay Z’s immense celebrity. However, Jay Z’s group Roc Nation Sports and its partner CAA, which employs Van Wagenen, have been adamant Jay Z was more than a figurehead. Jay Z has been very active behind the scenes and figures to be more in front now that it’s time to pitch his first and only baseball client.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2013 09:50 PM Re: If not, then who?

During my Thanksgiving NY visit, I've run in to two otherwise emotionally mature men expressing genuine distress over the passing report that the Mets weren't going to go all in on Phil Hughes. He's Phil Hughes!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 30 2013 04:50 AM Re: If not, then who?

He's worth checking in on, like a store's Black Friday deals if you happen to be awake/around a mahl, or an infirm favorite aunt. But I don't know that I see anyone looking to go all in on Phil Hughes, except, y'know, any major-league hitter with more power than an EZ-Bake Oven light.

Frayed Knot Nov 30 2013 06:58 AM Re: If not, then who?

The intriguing part about Hughes comes from the idea that he was a former 1st round draft pick who, one year while coming up, was considered the top pitching prospect in baseball; he's been a fly ball pitcher stuck in the wrong park for his entire career and would greatly benefit from a move to ... well just about anywhere, but to CitiField in particular. Plus he's doesn't even turn 28 until mid-season 2014 and maybe there's something to that whole 'change of scenery' thing. His career H-v-R HRs are at about a 2-1 ratio [76 to 36] and the slash and ERA stats show a similar bias: H=.274/.328/.479; R=.245/.306/.384; ERA= 4.96 vs 4.10 Having said all that, I'm not sure what constitutes going "all in" on him. I think he's worthy of having his tires kicked, preferably with the thought of a one-year deal for a back of the rotation type, possibly going to two (or one + one) if the price is right. I suspect he's the type that'll wind up with a smaller market team for more security (read: length) but, like I said, I think it's worth exploring.

Ceetar Nov 30 2013 08:09 AM Re: If not, then who?

I despise the Phil Hughes to the Mets (ooh, I should write a whole post on this. Naah, maybe just a slideshow) story on so many different levels. It feels like picking up Yankee-trash and seems to be most proposed by the woe-is-me Mets fan that really wish they were Yankees fans. In a lot of ways it feels like getting Pelfrey back. Which is fine really, if that's the type of filler pitcher you want. I've got no problem picking up a league-averagish pitcher instead of a crusty veteran league-averagish pitcher. But seems like Hughes wants more money than he's worth. He's flawed, and a lot of people seem to think "Oh, just send him to Citi" like that'll suddenly make him good. It might hide some of his flaws. Certainly he's a fly-ball pitcher and a big park with a possibly very good OF defense would help a lot. But It's not going to unlock some secret magic that's going to make him realize his first round draft pick potential. Maybe most importantly, he's just not very good.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2013 09:04 AM Re: If not, then who?

I think Hughes is worth a long look and I guess, an arm examination, and if he checks out I might give him a ride. I can see where he could be preferable than say, going too many years on Arroyo or something. As noted periferals are better than results so far. NOT like Pelfrey who never had as much stats as ability recommending him.

Frayed Knot Nov 30 2013 09:18 AM Re: If not, then who?

Y'know, Met fans who cry when the Yanx get one of our players and then cry when one of theirs come here--as if both somehow demean us while raising them--can go suck on it. Just as making moves simply for its pr value (something that's been discussed here before) is stupid, so is NOT making a useful move for fear of perceived bad pr reasons (within reason of course). As I think I made clear, Hughes might be a guy for back of the rotation filler in the spot where the likes of Matsuzaka or Harang might be considered - remember that we're not only missing Harvey for 2014 but Hefner as well. If it turns out that he's too expensive then you move on to someone else, but to declare him that now is getting ahead of things. In the meantime, nobody is suggesting that moving him to Queens will suddenly make him a front of the rotation stud, only that it'll likely make him better and that, at age 27, it's not like his career arc is already set in stone and only destined to go downhill from here.

Ceetar Nov 30 2013 11:00 AM Re: If not, then who?

Frayed Knot wrote: Y'know, Met fans who cry when the Yanx get one of our players and then cry when one of theirs come here--as if both somehow demean us while raising them--can go suck on it. Just as making moves simply for its pr value (something that's been discussed here before) is stupid, so is NOT making a useful move for fear of perceived bad pr reasons (within reason of course). As I think I made clear, Hughes might be a guy for back of the rotation filler in the spot where the likes of Matsuzaka or Harang might be considered - remember that we're not only missing Harvey for 2014 but Hefner as well. If it turns out that he's too expensive then you move on to someone else, but to declare him that now is getting ahead of things. In the meantime, nobody is suggesting that moving him to Queens will suddenly make him a front of the rotation stud, only that it'll likely make him better and that, at age 27, it's not like his career arc is already set in stone and only destined to go downhill from here. I'm not declaring him too expensive, but I wouldn't pay him more than a bit, even knowing the market is insane this year. Of course, Arroyo (who's better) is seemingly seeking 3 years so at least if you're going to bite that bullet for a multi-year guy a younger one makes sense, but Phil Hughes? for one, he dreams of having years like Mike Pelfrey or Bronson Arroyo, even if you use FIP or xFIP or fWAR. There are better options. I only bring up Pelfrey because they're similar ages and similar "HE SHOULD BE BETTER" first round pick nonsense around them. If Hughes was on another team, it'd be "Hey, Hughes is available. He kinda sucks though." but since many of the people writing about the Mets have seen him first hand, regularly, or covered him, it's easy to write about him and have an opinion. It's also easy to make up some "Fits in New York" crap too.

Frayed Knot Nov 30 2013 11:37 AM Re: If not, then who?

I'm not declaring him too expensive -- Well, by declaring up front that he wants more than he deserves you pretty much are. I have no idea what his asking price in dollars or years is, or whether he'll get what he's asking for even if I knew it. For the record, Pelfrey (since he seems to be coming up as a comparison) took a $4mil/1-year deal with Minnesota, although he was coming off an injury which Hughes is not. "for one, he dreams of having years like Mike Pelfrey or Bronson Arroyo, even if you use FIP or xFIP or fWAR. There are better options. I only bring up Pelfrey because they're similar ages and similar "HE SHOULD BE BETTER" first round pick nonsense around them. " -- Pelfrey is 2-1/2 years older than Hughes and now has the worse injury history. And while their career ERAs are similar, Hughes has better career WHiP, BB/9, K/9, and H/9 ratios. Only in HRs/9 is Pelfrey superior and, again, that could be partially narrowed by the park swap. "If Hughes was on another team, it'd be "Hey, Hughes is available. He kinda sucks though." but since many of the people writing about the Mets have seen him first hand, regularly, or covered him, it's easy to write about him and have an opinion. It's also easy to make up some "Fits in New York" crap too. -- "Kind of sucks" is a relative term. His 2013 was pretty lousy but he's had a league average or better ERA in two of the other three years that he was a full time starter and was an All-Star back in 2008. There's a big gap between mediocre and 'sucks' and Hughes is closer to the former than the latter. I ignore just about all 'can handle NY' angles; that's not factoring into my argument. My bottom line here: Tossing him into the mix of pitchers to be considered is a much better idea than dismissing him outright simply because we don't like where he came from, or because of what some idiot fans/press might say, or because he's almost certainly never going to be the version that the Yanx thought coming out of the minors.

Edgy MD Nov 30 2013 11:53 AM Re: If not, then who?

The issue reportedly is that he's asking multiple years. The Mets are only interested for one.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 01 2013 06:08 AM Re: If not, then who?

As per fielding-independent pitching stats, Pelfrey actually rates better than Hughes over the last few years, by a significant margin. But, yeah, well, whatever-- just like that, it's moot. The Twins are that team this offseason it seems-- the one offering security when everyone else is offering a higher AAV and 1-to-2 years. It does SEEM like a nice price. And if Hughes likes lutefisk and indoor roller coasters and ice-fishing, hey-- win-win, baby!

Frayed Knot Dec 01 2013 03:27 PM Re: If not, then who?

So I guess we won't be seeing Mr. Hughes following in Dillon's shoes this season.