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Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

TransMonk Nov 20 2013 06:50 PM

ESPN is reporting Prince Fielder has been traded for Ian Kinsler.

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2013 07:31 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

WHOA ... Didn't see THAT ONE coming!

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 20 2013 09:02 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Frayed Knot wrote: WHOA ... Didn't see THAT ONE coming! People here were PISSED after the playoffs, both with his performance and his attitude when it was over. So there will be some happy people. But I'm stunned they got someone to take that horrible contract.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 20 2013 09:34 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Seems like Detroit's sending over $30M to help the thing go down. This is shaping up to be a pretty fun offseason, isn't it?

MFS62 Nov 20 2013 09:42 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

So, I guess that Davis for Kinsler deal I dreamed about is out of the question. Later

Nymr83 Nov 20 2013 10:00 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Love the move for Texas, Fielder will bounce back and destroy the ball for them while moving Kinsler opens up room for both Andrus and Profar to play.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 20 2013 10:24 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Wow. Yet another huge-money FA contract unloaded at the very first opportunity. Makes you wonder how "available" a guy like Pujols would be.

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 21 2013 04:16 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition) Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 21 2013 07:16 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wow. Yet another huge-money FA contract unloaded at the very first opportunity. Makes you wonder how "available" a guy like Pujols would be. And one less suitor for Cano! Does Canoe know we have a rotunda dedicated to his namesake?

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2013 06:45 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I guess this solves the problem for Detroit of essentially having three guys going forward for two position: Miggy, Prince, and Carlos Martinez at 1B & DH -- one that everyone knew they were headed for the moment they took on Cabrera. It'll allow them to move Miggy back across the diamond (or he and Martinez can share 1B/DH duties), strengthen a weak position for them (Omar Infante was good at 2B in 2013 but is a FA), get out from under Prince's contract while he's still young, AND it makes room for their best prospect Nick Castellanos who had been mostly a 3B-man as an amateur and through the minors before being shifted to OF due to the overcrowding at the ML level. Not that Kinsler's contract is all that small itself (a minimum of $62 mil plus the $30mil sent over to even things out) plus he's two years older than Prince, but they can be done with him after 2017 instead of 2020 and you'd think Kinsler's body is a better bet to hold up better over time.

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 21 2013 07:19 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

And, of interest to a very small portion of the Crane Pool Forum, the Tigers now have TWO University of Missouri players on their roster. Kinsler joins Max Scherzer. Go MIZZOU!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 21 2013 07:22 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

The other benefit to Detroit is saving some $$ to go and re-sign Scherzer if they want to. I have to say, the Tigers are one of the best orgs in terms of making exciting and decisive moves, Dombrowski gets my "GM of the Year" award.

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2013 07:23 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

metsguyinmichigan wrote: And, of interest to a very small portion of the Crane Pool Forum, the Tigers now have TWO University of Missouri players on their roster. Kinsler joins Max Scherzer. Go MIZZOU! Two Tigers on the Tigers as it were.

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 21 2013 07:31 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Frayed Knot wrote: metsguyinmichigan wrote: And, of interest to a very small portion of the Crane Pool Forum, the Tigers now have TWO University of Missouri players on their roster. Kinsler joins Max Scherzer. Go MIZZOU! Two Tigers on the Tigers as it were. Absolutely! Tigers now & then! In Met world, David Cone also went to Mizzou. And supposedly Brad Pitt was in the J-School at the same time I was there, but I never knew or saw him.

MFS62 Nov 21 2013 07:35 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

metsguyinmichigan wrote: And, of interest to a very small portion of the Crane Pool Forum, the Tigers now have TWO University of Missouri players on their roster. Kinsler joins Max Scherzer. Go MIZZOU! Missouri? You'd have to show me. Later

Edgy MD Nov 21 2013 08:10 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: WHOA ... Didn't see THAT ONE coming! People here were PISSED after the playoffs, both with his performance and his attitude when it was over. So there will be some happy people. He had a rep for moving on from playoff losses disturbingly quickly with Milwaukee, didn't he? I think the guy's a trip. A little bit disturbed and detached and untrusting, though.

Lefty Specialist Nov 21 2013 08:30 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

He had a father who was detatched and uncaring in Cecil Fielder. Prince has gone out of his way (he says) to put his family first, over hitting a baseball for a living. So his detatchment from playoff losses may come from that area. My dime-store psychoanalysis, for what it's worth. And yes, I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2013 08:36 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I think that's a lot of what's going on. When you get used and lied to by your big shot dad, it's understandable that you turn out aloof and untrusting.

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 21 2013 09:04 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Much was made about Fielder's divorce this season. Teammates blamed it for his mid-season struggles.

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2013 09:42 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I'd be very surprised if this move was made as a reaction to his poor playoff performance. I think Tiger mgmt is too smart to be swayed* by such a small sample size even if it remains the go-to motive for many in the press. * I almost typed 'suede' there

Edgy MD Nov 21 2013 09:47 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Fielder grounded out in the eighth inning of game six in his last trip to the plate as a Tiger, but I like to think of his belly flop in the sixth as his last Tiger statement. Somewhere, Ty Cobb's head exploded.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2013 10:25 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

So, let's scratch that itch --- how much better is Ian Kinsler (105, 97, and 118 OPS+ the past three seasons) than Daniel Murphy (108, 103, 126)? How much more/less should the Mets have offered? Would you have blown 100% of your hard-won Metly financial flexibility on the bloated slugger's bloated contract?

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 21 2013 11:09 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I wouldn't touch Fielder's contract. But, I will say, he's been far more durable than people expected. I think he played in every game.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2013 11:19 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

MLB's reigning iron man, in fact.

Vic Sage Nov 21 2013 11:25 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Edgy MD wrote: So, let's scratch that itch --- how much better is Ian Kinsler (105, 97, and 118 OPS+ the past three seasons) than Daniel Murphy (108, 103, 126)? How much more/less should the Mets have offered? Would you have blown 100% of your hard-won Metly financial flexibility on the bloated slugger's bloated contract? Kinsler is better. Murphy's OPS+ is not 126... It's 105 for his career, and was 126 only in 2011 (when he missed 1/3 of a season), and then he put up a 103 (2012) and a 108 (2013) over a full seasons [and a 96 in 2009]. He'll be 29 at the start of next season, and will only be under team control for 2 arb years (2014-2015) before FAgency. Kinsler will be 32 next year, and is tied up for 4-5 years/$15m per (avg). He's a much better fielder, and a somewhat better hitter, with more power than Murph, though his SBs are trending down (age, perhaps). I can see why a win-now team like Detroit would prefer Kinsler overall. Even though Murph is cheaper and younger, they wouldn't be able to control him as long, or at a good price. Fielder will be 30 next year, and his down 2013 season still resulted in a 120 OPS+. Before that, he played every day for 8 years and averaged over 140 during that time. Now, if you think he's starting to decline, rather than 2013 being simply a standard deviation, then no, you don't want his 7yrs/under $19M avg (incl $30m payment from Detroit) on the books, particularly a team with such a short leash, cash-wise. But Texas may feel a new start in a hitter's park will revive him as the 35-40hr/100r-120rbi/100bb machine he'd been before. Personally, i would trade Murphy for Fielder +$30m in a heartbeat.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2013 11:42 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Vic Sage wrote: Murphy's OPS+ is not 126... It's 105 for his career, and was 126 only in 2011 (when he missed 1/3 of a season), and then he put up a 103 (2012) and a 108 (2013) over a full seasons [and a 96 in 2009]. He'll be 29 at the start of next season, and will only be under team control for 2 arb years (2014-2015) before FAgency. I think you misread what I wrote. I don't state that his OPS+ is 126, but rather stated the numbers the last three seasons for each.

Vic Sage Nov 22 2013 01:17 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

duh. sorry. RMPL.

Edgy MD Dec 03 2013 09:13 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Orioles get 101 saves in two years from Jimmy Johnson (got to be one of the best two-season totals ever, right?), and move him late last night for... fading infield prospect Jemile Weeks. A PtBNL is also due to be added. I'm guessing it won't be Josh Donaldson, but it better be something good, because Orioles fans are looking for Duquette's head. This is a strange name for what I guess is a thread devoted to offseason trades.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2013 10:05 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I don't know how badly the O's needed a second baseman, but I will trade my closer for an everyday player most days of the month. Weeks apparently has a rep as a "change of scenery" guy, also going to much a better hitting park. (Oh, didn;t realize he spent all of last year only hitting OK in AAA)

Ashie62 Dec 03 2013 01:44 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

[url]http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24323480/rangers-trade-craig-gentry-to-as Rangers send Craig Gentry and Josh Lindblom to the A's for Michael Choice and Bostick Choice had/has been a BBA favorite with big power potential..

sharpie Dec 05 2013 10:14 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Brewers trade Aoki to the Royals for Will Smith, the pitcher not the actor. Isn't that who the Mets were supposed to get for Ike Davis? http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10082 ... ity-royals

Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2013 10:23 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I think that name goes back further than that. He may have been involved in some of the R.A. Dickey rumors from last winter.

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2013 10:34 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition) Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 05 2013 10:48 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think that name goes back further than that. He may have been involved in some of the R.A. Dickey rumors from last winter. I think you're thinking of Wil (yes, that's with one L) Myers, a then up and coming KC OFer who was the subject of Dickey speculation until he wound up being traded last off-season to the Rays in a multi-player deal. I've never heard of (this) Will Smtih, a 24 y/o LHP as it turns out, until just now.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2013 10:41 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Yes... you're right.

smg58 Dec 05 2013 11:07 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Smith had a really good K/BB ratio as a reliever last year, but he's also very vulnerable to the long ball and moving to a home park that plays to his weakness. I'm assuming the Brewers see him as a starter, but I think the risk outweighs the potential reward if the price is a legitimate starting outfielder.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2013 11:13 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

There have been some crazy trades this year. I think when Sandy finally pulls the trigger on the Davis-Muffy+ Explosion, it just might be spectacular.

metirish Dec 05 2013 11:26 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I don't think Alderson does spectacular. In his career what has been his most "spectacular" trade? I am asking because I have not a clue, but based on his personality I think he doesn't do it, does he have a history on this?

TransMonk Dec 05 2013 11:31 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I'm guessing moving Aoki keeps Braun in Milwaukee...though it may involve a move to right field for him.

Ceetar Dec 05 2013 11:32 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

metirish wrote: I don't think Alderson does spectacular. In his career what has been his most "spectacular" trade? I am asking because I have not a clue, but based on his personality I think he doesn't do it, does he have a history on this? He always talks about trading ..Jose Canseco? back in the day. The Pagan for Torres/Ramirez was bad, but maybe a little ballsy. But Beltran for Wheeler and the Dickey spoils were both more than anyone expected.

metirish Dec 05 2013 11:35 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Yeah, Beltran/wheeler would do it.....

Edgy MD Dec 05 2013 11:43 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

metirish wrote: I don't think Alderson does spectacular. In his career what has been his most "spectacular" trade? I am asking because I have not a clue, but based on his personality I think he doesn't do it, does he have a history on this? He's been a very conservative trader with the Mets, but one can theorize it's because if the deal he wants isn't in the offing, he walks away. It's certainly possible that he's playing for the explosion of nothing. Some of his biggest trades included [list][*]a five-for-two deal in 1984 getting Tim Birtsas, Jay Howell, Stan Javier, Eric Plunk and Jose Rijo for Rickey Henderson and somebody named Bert Bradley.[/*:m] [*]a three-way trade (which included the Mets) in 1987, giving up Alfredo Griffin, Jay Howell, Kevin Tapani and Wally Whitehurst for Bob Welch and Matt Young. Welch would winn the Cy Young Award in 1990 27 wins and (surprisingly) go 96-60 with the A’s overall[/*:m] [*]getting Dennis Eckersley (and Dan Rohn) for Brian Guinn, Dave Wilder, and Mark Leonette, who together accumulated exactly zero days of big league service, while Eckersley would shift to the pen and accumate 387 of this 390 career saves from that point forward.[/*:m][/list:u]

Edgy MD Dec 05 2013 11:45 AM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

Oh, and he got Rickey back for Greg Cadaret, Eric Plunk and Luis Polonia. That's dealing as far as I'm concerned. Rickey won an MVP for him the second go-around.

Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 05 2013 12:32 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

I think trading the reigning Cy Young Award winner was a spectacular deal. He certainly seems to go for the prospects over the established stars. If these pan out -- and Wheeler certainly shows potential -- we'll be giving him a plaque in the room off the gift shop. Just does suck waiting, though.

MFS62 Dec 05 2013 12:39 PM Re: Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

And another one bites the dust: Ken RosenthalVerified account ? @ Ken_Rosenthal # Brewers announce trade of OF Norichika Aoki to # Royals for LHP Will Smith. Later