Master Index of Archived Threads
First Base, 2014
Edgy MD Nov 26 2013 04:43 PM |
2013 Guys:
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 26 2013 05:53 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
With the year he had last year, Mongo Morse seems like an interesting cheapo-route Show Me sign, don't he?
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Edgy MD Nov 26 2013 06:01 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Kind of. Depending on how cheapo. They're already betting on Young to bounce back, and it's hard to see anything in Morse that you aren't getting in Davis.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 26 2013 07:49 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
How much money is Loney expected to get? I figure if they sign a decent first baseman, maybe they trade Davis and/or Duda for a shortstop who's better than Tejada, a standard that shouldn't be at all hard to meet.
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Edgy MD Nov 26 2013 08:13 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Seems to be about five genuine candidates in that pool. Can there be enough suitors to bid them up?
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86-Dreamer Nov 26 2013 09:09 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Kendrys Morales is my Choice for an impact bat. Trade Ike and a pitcher for a corner Outfielder and sign Feldman, arroyo and Furball. Trade or hold Ruben and Lucas in Vegas. Go $10 million over budget to win 85 games this year and build some momentum for the return of king Harvey.
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MFS62 Nov 26 2013 09:46 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Who says you need power to play first base?
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Edgy MD Nov 26 2013 11:03 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Nobody says it, but since it's likely the easiest position on the diamond, a team likes to get as complete and profound and productive a hitter as possible there.
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Ashie62 Nov 27 2013 07:13 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I see value in Mike Morse and Kendrys Morales.
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Ashie62 Dec 08 2013 05:57 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
There was talk earlier in the day of a Mets PR at 6pm today.
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Centerfield Dec 09 2013 07:46 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I hope that the Mets will not feel compelled to move one or the other and feel pressure to take whatever is offered. If the reward coming back is some back-end starter, I'd prefer to just let Davis and Duda duke it out in spring training. If we can build up the rest of the lineup so that Davis has to bat no higher than 6th, I can live with this.
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Frayed Knot Dec 09 2013 07:55 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Which leads to the question ... And then what? Dealing the presumptive loser of that duel towards the end of ST when most rosters are set would likely mean less of a haul than now and I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that keeping both isn't really an option. The alternative, I suppose, would be to send the loser to the minors (is that even possible anymore?) and hope he tears things up but, again, what kind of return are you going to get in May or June that you won't get now? The bottom line is, two mid/late 20s under-performing 1Bmen with (occasional) power but who bring little else to the party simply aren't going to bring back that much.
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Edgy MD Dec 09 2013 08:15 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Well, an alternative option, while maybe not considered viable by many, is something akin to last year's status quo, with Davis at first and Duda in the outfield, and Duda continuing to fight for more time at first and better outfielders fighting to take away his time in left.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2013 08:35 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Well, Duda is extremely unlikely to bump Granderson out of the outfield, and probably not Young either. He may be able to dislodge Lagares.
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Edgy MD Dec 09 2013 09:05 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Or end up as backup outfielder and firstbaseman, hopefully providing the team a pinch-hitter and a fallback alternative.
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Gwreck Dec 09 2013 11:55 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Isn't there also the issue of Davis' salary, which would be decided pre-spring training? There may be better uses of that $3.5 million.
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Centerfield Dec 10 2013 07:12 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I know I'm in the minority here, but I think there's nothing wrong with paying Davis $3.5 million and hoping he can recover to 2012 form. If Davis were coming from another team, and Sandy signed a guy who, as recently as 2012, hit 30 HR's and plays solid defense, for one year, $3.5 million, I think a lot of folks would say it's a good move. And so for that reason, I'd be perfectly happy to keep as long as we build other pieces around him.
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Edgy MD Dec 10 2013 07:26 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I'm there too. Don't think the Mets are, though.
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Frayed Knot Dec 10 2013 07:54 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I don't mind taking a chance of Ike rebounding -- but, if so, I want to trade Duda (or vice-versa). The two are just too similar [low-BA, decent walk-rate, high-Ks, good though only sometimes-realized LH power, slow-footed, emergency-only OFs] to justify keeping both while other holes go unfulfilled.
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Edgy MD Dec 10 2013 08:01 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Well, when they play poorly, they're similar. When they excel, they're a little different.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2013 08:14 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
If they want to contend this year (and they say they do; the likelihood of that is another story) the plan can't be to go with a first baseman who tends to practically go oh-for-April, May, and June. I know there's a risk that Ike will break out for another team, which is why even though I'm in favor of dealing him, I'm still a little uneasy. But there's also a risk involved in keeping him; that another three-month slump to start the season will kill whatever faint hopes the Met may have. There's a fear that another slump would also destroy his trade value, but that may not be an issue since it's looking like that may have already happened.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2013 08:15 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Edgy's post snuck in ahead of mine. If they keep both Davis and Duda, they can give Ike one more try and if he flops, there's still Duda and Satin.
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Edgy MD Dec 10 2013 08:26 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Maybe "We went out and bought some guys and now there's only room for one of youse in this lineup" focuses one or both of them to produce like never before.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2013 09:08 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Adam McCalvy (?@AdamMcCalvy) is the Brewers beat writer for MLB.com
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Frayed Knot Dec 11 2013 07:41 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Not very different. ID career per/600 ABs -- .242/.334/.434 // 768; 30 2Bs, 1 3B, 25 HRs in 1,711 ML ABs LD career per/600 ABs -- .246/.342/.424 // 766; 27 2Bs, 1 3B, 20 HRs in 1,282 ML ABs Ike had the better peak the year he hit 32 HRs, but both have seen their BA & OBA tumble every year since 2011 BA = .302 ... then .227 ... then .205 for Ike vs .292 ... .239 ... .223 (Duda)
You also have (theoretically) one fewer hole elsewhere by dealing either/or as opposed to redundancy at one spot with two guys who may both be out of options at this point(?) and will turn 27 & 28 y/o (Lucas is 13 months older) before the season starts. Is the hope that keeping both will light a fire under one or the other really that high (after all - it hasn't worked so far) to justify burning a roster spot with two guys who essentially have the same strengths and weaknesses. I don't want to dump either one just to dump them, but if I'm Sandy I'm turning over every rock to see what I can find in a SS, a prospect, a pitcher, or even a good bench player in exchange.
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Centerfield Dec 11 2013 07:50 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
No way I trade either for a guy I know will be a bench player, even a good one.
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Edgy MD Dec 11 2013 08:01 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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That speaks to their career averages but not to the distinctions between how they perform when they excel, when Duda is a better contact hitter who uses the whole field, and Davis is the better pull hitter for power. When they fail, which they both mostly have for two years, we get neither of this, and so, yes, their career averages are similar.
Well, we speak here of not dealing one for the sake of a deal, and encouraging the Mets to hold rather than to take a less-than-advantageous deal that would not plug much of a hole. We do not speak of refusing to deal outright.
They haven't been pitted up against one another for playing time thus far.
I do not consider a roster spot given to a capable player to be "burned." Teams tend to carry lefthanded hitting outfielder/firstbaseman types with power on their bench under any circumstances. Many of these guys are former starters who have been downgraded. If Duda breaks camp in the role that Baxter had last year, what's burned?
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Ceetar Dec 11 2013 08:13 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
It's worth noting that Lucas Duda's career is as an above average hitter (18% better by OPS+ actually).
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Ashie62 Dec 11 2013 09:37 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I'd be happy to discard them like junk.. They both suck..
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Edgy MD Dec 11 2013 09:43 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I would beg you to try again with that post.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2013 09:45 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Thanks for yet another illuminating contribution.
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Ceetar Dec 11 2013 09:48 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
From the supposed word about the Brewers camp about the Ike Davis negotiations, it sounds like Sandy's sticking to his "GIVE US AN AWESOME PROSPECT. No? You're out." strategy that seems to have netted us Wheeler and others.
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Frayed Knot Dec 11 2013 10:18 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Maybe that is setting the standard a bit too low -- but at the moment we're not sure that whoever turns out to be the better of these two will qualify as much more than a decent bench player and maybe neither will. All's I'm saying is that I'd prefer to have one of these guys plus a mediocre player who plays a different position and brings a different set of skills rather than two similar mediocre guys.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 11 2013 10:24 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Sandy also has plenty of time. Tracky and friends might be impatient. But there's no real rush.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 11 2013 12:52 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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You can leverage Beltran like that. Hell, you can even, in a thin market, kindasorta leverage Marlon Byrd like that, apparently. But you CAN'T do that with Ike Davis, at full arbitrated price. Well, you can't, and expect to succeed.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2013 12:54 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Hart is signing with Seattle, Internet says, perhaps increasing their appetite for Davisness.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 11 2013 01:03 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Thanks, Fake Smart GM!
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Ceetar Dec 11 2013 01:14 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Depends. I've always said Alderson's biggest card to play is his willingness to walk away and NOT make a deal. I suspect he's got the 'nothing good' contingency for Davis and will end up playing him if that happens and dangle Duda or put him in the minors or something. Not trading Hairston is a similar case. It shows teams that he's NOT going to come down to your level and accept your crap trade offer. If you want Ike, you pay the price Sandy demands.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 11 2013 01:31 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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But are we looking to dump Ike because he's a bad player, or are we leveraging a surplus of talent in one area to fill a hole. There are worse things than having Ike Davis at first base next season.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2013 01:32 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I know it's probably not the wisest move, but I'd kinda like to see Sandy drive up the market for Davis and Duda by signing Loney, thereby removing him as an option for the Brewers, the Rays, and whoever else.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2013 01:33 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Even if he's hitting .160 on June 30? As we've seen, that's a very real possibility.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 11 2013 01:34 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
The way Sandy et. al. have been talking/leaking, it seems that they're looking to trade Ike or bust, doesn't it?
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dinosaur jesus Dec 11 2013 01:37 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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So maybe he should sign all of them, and then auction off the ones he doesn't want?
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2013 02:04 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
There used to be a rule, I don't know if it's still in effect, that said that a newly signed free agent couldn't be traded until June 1 (or July 1?) of his first year with his new team.
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Vic Sage Dec 11 2013 02:34 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
sign Kendrys morales, trade Davis for a SS or SPer, send Duda to AAA.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2013 02:47 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I think we gotta distinguish which shortstop you swap Davis for.
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Frayed Knot Dec 11 2013 02:52 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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The only problem with that theory is that you then put yourself in the position where everyone knows you have to trade your guy - thereby increasing the odds that you'd be driving down the price you'd get for him instead of raising it. And that's also part of the problem with the 'Keep Both' school of thinking. Didn't we just recently pick-up as low-BA/hi-Slg type of 1st sacker to go along with the already crowded Duda + Davis + Allen Dykstra trio?
Without said player's permission, yes.
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Vic Sage Dec 11 2013 02:54 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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i've done enough of Sandy's job for one day... now its time for a mai tai.
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Edgy MD Dec 11 2013 03:16 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I didn't know we were a school. I think I've tried extensively to make clear that the notion is you can keep both, not that you must keep both. So calling it a "'Keep Both' school" is a little unfair. As is the idea that that nameless first sacker (Brandon Allen) and Dykstra are somehow forcing the issue. For one, the latter has never until this been considered part of a "trio," a false equivalency made more risible by the fact that he's yet to appear in AAA, let alone the majors. For two, his name is "Allan." For three, he's got a broken fibula. And I love my Allan Dykstra!
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Frayed Knot Dec 11 2013 05:17 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Yes, neither you, nor anyone else I know, is stating that we must keep both, just as I'm not saying that we can't keep both.
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Edgy MD Dec 11 2013 07:31 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
It's hardly a parsing contest, but hell, folks are going to clarify a position if it's misrepresented.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 11 2013 08:04 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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The Mariners appear to be exploring this avenue.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2013 11:55 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Jon Heyman says that the Mets and Brewers are meeting today to talk about Ike Davis.
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Ashie62 Dec 12 2013 12:49 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Rubin tweets the Mets will not "give away" Ike..
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Edgy MD Dec 12 2013 12:58 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Well, if you disagree, then it makes no sense to preface that disagreement with "Duh."
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Ceetar Dec 12 2013 01:08 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Now Bartolo..you might need a bulldozer to move. oops, wrong thread.
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Ashie62 Dec 12 2013 04:41 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I want Davis in section 108 in the Meaodowlands...
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Edgy MD Dec 12 2013 05:35 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
That would be quite obviously counterproductive and pointlessly vindictive. Please try harder.
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Frayed Knot Dec 13 2013 06:37 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Ken Davidoff -- Clubs are intrigued by Ike Davis’ ceiling but scared by both his swing (the mechanics) and his swings (the streakiness) so it just doesn’t look realistic for the Mets to get a strong return on Davis. A bullpen piece could be as good as it gets.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2013 07:03 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
There's been a lot of talk about Ike's ceiling (especially on Mets Hot Stove this week) but you can't overlook his basement. And it seems that the teams the Mets are talking to are well aware of Ike's basement.
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batmagadanleadoff Dec 13 2013 10:50 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I don't think the Mets can keep both Ike and Duda. They really are redundant, not only because they're similar offensive players, but because, mainly, they're first baseman. Duda can't play the outfield. Just can't. And, apparently, neither can Ike, now. Ike and Duda are less versatile than Eddie Kranepool. You've got two inconsistent left-handed exclusive first basemen, and given today's pitch count era with more roster slots taken up by pitchers and less bench players, it's inefficient to keep both. Putting Duda in the outfield is baseball suicide. The Mets really have to get rid of at least one of these, and if they keep one instead of none, hope that the keeper improves. That's all they can do. I also think it's likelier that the kept guy improves with more playing time. I disagree that Ike and Duda aren't competing. Or at least, I don't think Duda sees it that way. Duda sees himself as a first baseman -- therefore, Ike's taking away his playing time. According to Duda. That's really all there is to it. Who the Mets get for which of these two? How the hell would I know?
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 20 2013 07:30 AM And now a word from Pittsburgh... |
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This is from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, arguing that the Pirates should consider Ike Davis:
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batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2013 08:04 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Did anyone know that Ike Davis led the NL in post All-Star Game OBP last season (.449)?
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batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2013 08:09 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Rumor Roundup Who Likes Ike? by Daniel Rathman excerpt:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... leid=22442
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Ceetar Dec 20 2013 08:13 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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yes. And that was after a 2 week 'slump' because he went a stretch where he was approaching .500
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Edgy MD Dec 20 2013 08:21 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I disagree with that, unless "holes in his swing" means "he can't hit the breaking pitch under his knees." But that's a hole in most people's swing, and that's why it's a ball if you don't swing at it. The problem is that he chased continually in the first half and that was all anybody tended to throw him. In the second half, he came back with a new discipline, and laid off that crap. It was encouraging, but it remained to be seen what would happen when the pitchers adjusted. Would he be able to punish pitchers when they came back up to him? Would he fall back in the rut and start hacking at the low slider again when it became less common? It's a shame he got hurt.
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Ashie62 Dec 20 2013 03:42 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Davis...Smoak....and Moreland...
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Edgy MD Dec 20 2013 05:31 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I'm not particular on the type of talent I would get, just hope for equal or better value or hoping the team holds.
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Edgy MD Dec 31 2013 07:46 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Looking at the movement to bring in Kendrys Morales, as expressed in another thread, I took the ten most comparable batters to Kendrys Morale (as per baseball-reference.com) through age 30 and put them up side-by-side with the ten most similar to to Duda through 27 and Davis through 26, and for each of the coming three years, the data favors Davis and Duda. While the bottom line offers nothing conclusive, it's conclusive enough to discourage me from investing tens of millions at first when deeper needs lie elsewhere.
=#FF0000]Duda
=#0000FF]Davis
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Edgy MD Dec 31 2013 08:01 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Also, he comes into the game as "Kendry," gets spectacuarly hurt and misses 1 2/3 seasons, and then comes back as "Kendrys"? that's a huge red flag there.
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Centerfield Dec 31 2013 08:38 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
If all we are going to get is a fringe prospect, I'd rather keep Davis and see what he's got for one more year. Place Duda in AAA and see how Ike does.
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Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2013 08:49 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I think that makes sense. (I'd include Satin among the fallback options too.) The only thing is, I'd give Ike a lot less rope than he's received in the last two seasons.
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Edgy MD Dec 31 2013 08:54 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Well, the presence of Duda and Satin would certainly give them a much more ready pair o' fallback plans.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 31 2013 10:05 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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HE'S KENDRY 2! THAT'S A CLONE, MOTHERFATHERS!
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Ashie62 Dec 31 2013 10:29 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Sandy was/is supposed to fix 1B.. Thus far its a fail..
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Centerfield Dec 31 2013 12:13 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Certainly on this. No way we can have him suck for an entire half-season. Especially in a season where we are hoping to be in the mix. I think if he goes 0 for April again, we can declare the Davis era officially over.
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Edgy MD Dec 31 2013 12:40 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Sandy was/is supposed to improve his team and the organization around him.
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Ashie62 Dec 31 2013 02:36 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Granted..those two positions are not the whole team but I believe improvement from those two spots came from Sandy's mouth. He noted SS..1B..OF..SP..C specifically... He has nailed 2 for 5 that I see...
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Nymr83 Jan 01 2014 09:35 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I'll judge him by the product on the field and the direction the team seems to be headed. I'd be happy if he doesn't fill a specific position at any cost just because he said at some point that we needed it.
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Benjamin Grimm Jan 05 2014 03:00 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Edgy MD Jan 05 2014 04:52 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Shouldn't really be anything awkward about it.
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Ceetar Jan 06 2014 08:54 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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he's hardly the first place to have trade talks surface and not be traded. Or to have bad things said about him and not be traded. And 'bulk of the early season time' is silly because A. I doubt Collins has decided on 2 weeks worth of Spring Training line ups in early January, and B. with split squads and the general 3-4 innings played early on, there's plenty of time for Ike, Duda, Satin and a score of others.
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Edgy MD Jan 06 2014 09:13 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Sandy, welcoming players to camp: Great to see you, Ike! How you feeling?
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Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 06 2014 09:20 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Metsblog today says the teams that were talking to the Mets expect the team to release him in spring training to save on the salary, and they'll just pick him up then without having the give up a prospect.
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Vic Sage Jan 06 2014 10:17 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
why on earth would they just release him? It's not like production by Duda and Satin have made Ike irrelevant... those guys haven't produced much either, and neither has shown the ability to date to hit 32 HRs and drive in 90r in the majors. And its not like we'd lose Duda if we just sent him down; he has options. I don't know what the baseball rationale is for a move like this. It seems to me that cutting Ike for nothing to anoint Duda and save $3m would be an indicator of a larger systemic problem.
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metsmarathon Jan 06 2014 10:21 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
but... isn't the contract guaranteed...? or is it only if he's on a major league roster at the start of the season?
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Edgy MD Jan 06 2014 10:23 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Guaranteed if he's with the team past a certain date.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 06 2014 10:25 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Yeah I don';t believe they'd release him either. He's not Jason Bay.
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batmagadanleadoff Jan 06 2014 10:35 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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It's the rich exploiting the poor.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 06 2014 10:36 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Maybe the idea is to release him and save the money, which then can be spent on Drew.
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batmagadanleadoff Jan 06 2014 10:36 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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It really is, if there's any semblance of truth to the other teams' supposed thinking.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 06 2014 10:39 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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bleh. I'd sooner trade him for a "lesser" shortstop.
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Vic Sage Jan 06 2014 12:01 PM Re: First Base, 2014 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 06 2014 12:31 PM |
whatever value we may or may not ascribe to Drew, the notion that the $3.8m (edit: $3.2m; $600K guaranteed) the Mets would save by releasing Ike would be necessary in order to make that acquisition, is truly galling. When Milwaukee and Pitt are the "rich teams" looking to exploit our poverty-stricken franchise by waiting for us to give up on $4m players because they're too "expensive", we're looking at systemic problems.
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Edgy MD Jan 06 2014 12:30 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I don't see where it makes much difference which teams are hoping to get him on the cheap, if that's in fact what's going on, which is pretty much a point of speculation at this juncture, so you may have been prematurely galled.
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batmagadanleadoff Jan 06 2014 12:35 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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It doesn't. But that small market teams like the Pirates and the Brewers might be preying on the Mets financial condition is yet another marker of just how far the Mets have fallen, and also indicates that contrary to what the Mets claim, they ain't anywhere near out of this mess yet.
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Vic Sage Jan 06 2014 12:36 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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there is no difference; it is simply ironic and points out the role reversal our team may be involved in thanks to changing fortunes of the Wilpons. As for my premature galling, i'm taking medication for that. at any rate, i said the notion was galling, speculative or not... and it is. Whether the Mets actually behave this way obviously remains to be seen, and there will be plenty more gall to go around at that point, should it occur.
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Edgy MD Jan 06 2014 12:48 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Well, it's not like the teams would be paying full freight for Davis, so wouldn't be exploiting any superior budget. They'd simply be hoping to grab a castoff. And it's all speculative.
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Ceetar Jan 06 2014 12:57 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
This is code.
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Zvon Jan 06 2014 01:11 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I also suffer from this systematic problem, premature galling. ^ That says it all.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 06 2014 03:57 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I think the real issue is not the Wilpon's finances, but the challenge of trying to get something of value for an under-performing firstbaseman, of which there are many in the league.
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Ashie62 Jan 06 2014 05:21 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
It may be as simple as other team assigning very little value to Ike Davis...
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Vic Sage Jan 06 2014 06:28 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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But trying to get something for him wouldn't be an issue if not for the Wilpon financial woes.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 06 2014 07:51 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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How so? We'd still have three first basemen who kinda sorta do -- or could do -- the same thing. Seems like one would be going away whether we added a new shortstop or not.
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Edgy MD Jan 06 2014 09:31 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Of course it would, and it certainly should be.
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Ashie62 Jan 06 2014 09:40 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Trying to get the best for Ike has nothing to do with the Wilpons financial woes..
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 06 2014 09:58 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
There are Wilpon financial woes? Why the hell didn't anyone say anything about this before?
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Frayed Knot Jan 07 2014 07:25 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
These are the sort of players the Mets have reportedly sought (and, if true, been rejected for) in exchange for Ike:
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Edgy MD Jan 16 2014 05:00 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Brewers pass on Ike Davis, go for unblushing strikeout machine Mark Reynolds, who will only cost them money and dignity.
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Vic Sage Jan 17 2014 02:59 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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My point was just that they wouldn't necessarily be looking to move Ike if he wasn't going to make $3.5m this year. Yes, they have other 1bmen that are similarly unproductive, but those guys have minor league options and don't have to take up space on the major league roster. Nobody is pushing Ike for the spot, and trading him now would definitely be a "sell low" proposition on a guy with 30+hr upside. The only reason Sandy might've considered trading him is either to cut the budget and give the spot to one of the other unproductive 1bmen who are making much less, or try to turn Ike around for a better prospect than he's worth. Apparently, Sandy tried the latter. He may yet try the former, depending on the Wilpons' cash flow at the time.
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Edgy MD Jan 17 2014 09:54 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Now you're stretching.
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Edgy MD Jan 21 2014 03:41 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Man, you need an article, buy Ron Davis a beer and let him talk your ear off.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 22 2014 08:50 AM Re: First Base, 2014 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 22 2014 07:03 PM |
One gets the feeling Ron's been waiting a while for someone to buy him that drink.
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Zvon Jan 22 2014 02:38 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Is he right though? At first I thought yes, the Mets should not have put out that info prior to being able to actually do anything with Ike.
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Frayed Knot Jan 22 2014 02:50 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
The Mets could have clammed up and said nothing at all, but it wouldn't have prevented the idea that they were trying to peddle Ike from becoming public knowledge.
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Ashie62 Jan 22 2014 09:47 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Ron Davis is an MFY....I guess the Mets aren't doing it the Yanqui way...
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 01 2014 01:24 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Mets sign Matt Clark, 27 year old minor-league/Japan vet.
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Frayed Knot Feb 01 2014 01:39 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Oh good, a low-BA / high-K / decent walk-rate / slow / LH-hitting 1st sacker.
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Ashie62 Feb 01 2014 03:36 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I'm not sure if her sneakers are trendy or just shot...
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 01 2014 06:23 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
He strikes me as a guy who doesn't mind looking in the mirror while having sex.
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Benjamin Grimm Feb 19 2014 02:20 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
There seems to be some buzz that the Pirates and/or Orioles may have revived their earlier interest in Ike Davis.
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Edgy MD Feb 19 2014 02:40 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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She laces them top to bottom. Is that even LEGAL in Texas?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 19 2014 02:47 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Of course they have! Ike will be traded! It'll be a coup for Mets!! Just wait!!
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2014 02:58 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Terry says he's going to pick a first baseman and stick with him for a while. (He's not saying who yet; probably wants to talk to the players before he says anything to the press.)
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Ceetar Apr 03 2014 03:04 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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3 righties. It won't be Satin. I think it'll be Ike, I hope it'll be Duda since he's the steady and good one and we need offense although that's relatively meaningless in 3-6 games (DH available after that for 3)
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Zvon Apr 03 2014 03:06 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Right or wrong, I dunno, but it'll be Duda.
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Ashie62 Apr 03 2014 03:23 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Doodah..
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Edgy MD Apr 03 2014 07:31 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Reports have Lucas Doo designated as the firstbasey guy.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 04 2014 07:37 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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This whole thing continues to be weird though. If they're willing to give one guy a shot, and they believe that guy is best-suited for the job, then why did that one sit on the bench for the first 2 days of the year? Still hurting? What? And if you've made a decision, why be coy about it only to "leak" the info? I don't get the impression that Terry is particularly savvy but a manager going on the record to make a declaration like that, with every beat guy subsequently crediting "a source with direct knowledge" identifying Doodoo, sounds like Terry nodded his head 'yes' when a crowd of reporters guessed the right starter. Ike Davis should be traded for a relief pitcher, and/or a prospect to replace the ones we need to call up, or as part of a Big Deal for relief pitchers and shortstops like we've been waiting for since last summer.
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Ceetar Apr 04 2014 07:45 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I suspect a lot of it was "getting everybody in" There's presumably some value to that, and even if not there's an old-school train of thought to it. Now we're at a string of righties so you presumably pick a first baseman and go with it. But it should be Ike. Particularly if you want to trade one of them. We know what Duda is. We know he's an above average offense player who's flawed defensively but can probably hold down 1B well enough. Maybe he hits a little better this year than last, but it's not likely to be significant. But Ike? Ike's the wild card. he's been up and down. he was up last but got hurt and made the whole year look bad. So why not play that guy, hope for a hot streak, and then try to sell high, or sell as 'fixed'? I don't think his value can really drop if he were to play badly for a couple of weeks. Perhaps even if he plays badly, someone else will see something they think they can fix, like how you might buy a house with leaky pipes if you're a plumber.
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Edgy MD Apr 04 2014 07:47 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Why make a decision at all? What new data suggests that anybody has won? Mix and match until somebody actually excels beyond the others.
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Ceetar Apr 04 2014 07:52 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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In 6 games we've got 3 with a DH. I'd wager it'll be 4 Duda, 1 Ike, 1 Satin up until then.
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Edgy MD Apr 04 2014 08:01 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
All the more reason not to designate Duda as your firstbasey guy.
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 04 2014 08:05 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
My guess is that is Terry is making a decision it's more for psychological than on-the-field reasons. He may be feeling that the uncertainty of who is going to be in the lineup on any given day is harming both Duda and Davis, and he wants to end that uncertainty as best he can.
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Ceetar Apr 04 2014 08:22 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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yes, but giving a tangible answers makes the reporters get up and walk away and you can go back to doing your real job.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 04 2014 08:55 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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But you have to decide on how to mix and match. Sounds as though a decision has been made to give Doodoo a shot for a certain unspecified period of time. We're not in the clubhouse to know for sure but I get a strong impression that these kinds of situations tend not to come up too often because it's just not how ballplayers are wired and baseball works. We see the same in bullpen management: It's clear that the closer/set-up/specialist/long man designations aren't always ideal but they provide guys with specific roles to fill so when they're asked to do that job they understand what their role is.
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metirish Apr 04 2014 08:58 AM Re: First Base, 2014 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 04 2014 09:07 AM |
Certainly Ron Darling doesn't agree with how this is being handled, during the game he said that a decision should have been made before the season, play that guy for whatever specified amount of time etc. I guess like mentioned above players are wired that way.
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Edgy MD Apr 04 2014 09:06 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Sure, you have to make a decision. I just wouldn't go making such an announcement. Creates more drama if things swing in another direction.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 04 2014 12:30 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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It'd come out anyway, even if Collins didn't make a public disclosure. Ike and Looook would hafta know. And then it ain't no secret anymore. In NY, Terry's decision would eventually end up in some writer's smartphone. I wanted to say notepad but that's old fashioned, right?
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Edgy MD Apr 04 2014 12:39 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I don't know that they have to be told anything. You want to see if you're the firstbaseman? Check the lineup card. If Duda gets the call three days in a row, Duda, Davis, the press, you, and me, will know Terry's made something of a commitment.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 04 2014 12:44 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
I just don't believe -- and don't believe that managers and players believe -- that not knowing your role till you look at the lineup card each night is compatible with disposition required of being a professional baseball player, particularly when you are with your first organization and "in your prime." Oftentimes, the transition from ascended prospect to reserve accompanies a change in employers.
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Edgy MD Apr 04 2014 12:46 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
That was pretty good. You refuted my point and made it sound like Alderson also.
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 04 2014 12:50 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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I feel the same way, but as JCL says, the modern ballplayer doesn't function well that way. As we've seen with the bullpen usage, players need to "know their role" more than in the past.
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Lefty Specialist Apr 04 2014 02:32 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
"Ike Davis, your role is to sit your ass on the bench."
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Frayed Knot Apr 04 2014 02:37 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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And also the manager doesn't want his starter--even if that starter is starter in name only and is hardly etched in stone for the future--to be thinking that he's going to lose his job on account of a bad game or two. Even saying "you're the starter until I say otherwise" sounds a little less dicey to one's ears even if it actually isn't.
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Ceetar Apr 04 2014 02:38 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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And conversely, you don't want him getting all pissy if he thinks he played well but the manager goes with a different guy for whatever reason the next day.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 04 2014 02:45 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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"and think about your favorite restaurants in Pittsburgh."
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Ashie62 Apr 04 2014 04:25 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Would this mean Ike heads to the minors again?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 04 2014 04:28 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Can you blame Ike for being upset at this treatment? Such a waste. I mean, everything tastes the same after three Jager bombs.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 04 2014 04:37 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
Lololollo
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Nymr83 Apr 04 2014 08:20 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
How dare you doubt Collins???
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 04 2014 10:10 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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Who the hell can tell what Collins wants people to think, including Ike and Looook?
And does Ike think the game was rigged all along?
[fimg=333]http://a1.nyt.com/assets/foundation/20140331-134620/images/logos/nyt-logo-185x26.svg[/fimg] Starting Duda Pays Off as Mets Win Their First By JORGE ARANGURE Jr.APRIL 4, 2014
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/05/sport ... .html?_r=0
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Edgy MD Apr 04 2014 10:18 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
That last sentence doesn't particularly make a whole lot of sense.
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Ceetar Apr 05 2014 05:52 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
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"uhh..sorry Josh" he added.
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TransMonk Apr 05 2014 09:46 PM Re: First Base, 2014 |
5 games in...Duda and Davis tied for the team lead in RBI.
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sharpie Apr 06 2014 09:52 AM Re: First Base, 2014 |
and Davis to start today.
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