Master Index of Archived Threads
ShortStop 2014
Frayed Knot Dec 17 2013 06:24 PM |
In no particular order, and not necessarily the final word on things.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2013 07:32 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Gregorious IIRC is one of those guys considered more toolsy than result-y but those tools were on display when he got the chance to play. Question I guess is how for real he is.
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Nymr83 Dec 17 2013 08:44 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
What would you give the D-bags if Gregorious were available? this is a guy who wont even see arbitration for 3 years so it wont be cheap. Is Montero available for him? I dont know if I'd do it but thats probably the minimum
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Edgy MD Dec 17 2013 08:59 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Thanks for launching this thread. Among other things, spurs me to finish that chart I've been laying out. Please correct me if I got any of this wrong.
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Edgy MD Dec 17 2013 09:07 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Forgot THE MAN.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2013 09:28 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Yeah, maybe this is where you get a third team involved. I can surrender Ike to the Bucs for a prospect, and include him (or Dilson Hererra) with Montero and say, Nieuwenhuis or Den Dekker to AZ. Maybe they take Tejada? Who knows.
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Edgy MD Dec 17 2013 09:41 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Seeing that list and how the market has played out, it lends some credit to the Mets still standing around with their dance card unsigned. The Yankees have dropped $17 million and, if recent stats suggest anything, may have ended up with next to nothing.
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Frayed Knot Dec 17 2013 09:42 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I suspect it'll take young pitching. They'll ask for Syndergaard and the Mets will say no, at which point it remains to be seen whether either side will walk away from an offer of a lesser arm. Do the Mets want a SS badly enough to offer 'anybodybut' and/or do other teams value the secondary guys enough? Or maybe the whole thing expands into a package where a pitcher gets paired with one of the defensive CFs for a SS + something or other. Probably a similar scenario for Owings and either of the Seattle guys. Or maybe it's none of that ... what the fuck do I know.
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Frayed Knot Dec 17 2013 09:50 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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They had Clint Barmes, John McDonald, and Jordy Mercer playing there last season - but I'm not all that interested in any of them. They're prolly in on Ike talks because Garrett Jones just signed a FA deal with Miami and Justin Morneau inked one w/Colorado
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Ashie62 Dec 18 2013 01:05 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm partial to Gregorious. I can only guess they want starting pitching and for sure they are not getting Syndergaard.
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smg58 Dec 18 2013 06:36 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Hardy (and Asdrubal Cabrera in Cleveland) will look more interesting to me next season than they do now.
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Edgy MD Dec 31 2013 09:05 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Starting to feel more and more like the statements that the team is ready to go with Tejada are as much bluffing as they are preparing the fan base for disappointment. I mean, they have to bring in some meaningful alternatives, if not because of this 2013 stuggles, but because he finished the season with a broken leg.
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Ceetar Dec 31 2013 09:27 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
they'll clearly bring in something, since it's like Tejada, Tovar, and then whoever they draft this year on the depth chart.
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Ashie62 Dec 31 2013 10:26 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
They do say they are comfortable with Tejada and Ruben just needs to work on his conditioning and work ethic..
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Centerfield Dec 31 2013 12:14 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
It just boggles my mind that with SS up in the air like this that we would non-tender Justin Turner.
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Ceetar Dec 31 2013 12:18 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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They have plenty of time. It's not like they're losing games while not carrying a barely acceptable SS backup guy with a penchant for whipped cream pies.
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Edgy MD Dec 31 2013 12:41 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Turner was a terrible shortstop. He probably improved with is his reps in 2013, but he was like worst-in-the-league bad. He didn't help the team there.
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Ceetar Dec 31 2013 01:11 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Actually, of all guys with 50AB at SS (how many Turner got) he was 49/59 in OPS. Q was 45 and Tejada as 57.
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Edgy MD Dec 31 2013 01:13 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I was trying to speak to his general defensive aptitude.
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Ceetar Dec 31 2013 01:28 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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and I was just being a numbers nerd cause I was curious. I don't think I can filter b-r play index on UZR or anything. not that 110 innings are really meaningful. I'm sure there are a handful of other guys that played a dozen or so games at SS that were just as bad (perhaps one that's been playing there, in this city, with the same number, for years) in the field, but Turner is definitely near the bottom.
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seawolf17 Dec 31 2013 01:29 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Come on, Justin Turner was not the future of this team. I liked him, but let's get real.
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Edgy MD Dec 31 2013 01:50 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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That's why I was putting the "like" qualifier in there. I have no idea if he's the worst and I really don't want to spend the time trying to prove it --- look at the less-than-explosive response I got to my frankly excellent work on the Morales-vs.-Duda-vs.-Davis question --- but I feel confident that he's down there with the fakirs and phonies when it comes to shortstop defense. It's silly, but I personally would feel better defensively with Wright at short.
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Ashie62 Dec 31 2013 02:32 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I believe this may become reality. Nothing else is popping up at SS..not yet anyway... Justin Turner is a lifetime backup at best..
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Edgy MD Jan 30 2014 09:30 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Holy smokes. I can't read it because ESPN is block'd at work (where's my smart phone?), but Rubin just posted and article titled "Alderson: Flores at shortstop not dead?" Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants if the Mets had a stealth plan all along to defy the defensive dismissals and go with a low-range/offense first option nobody at all had considered?
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Benjamin Grimm Jan 30 2014 09:34 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Ceetar Jan 30 2014 09:34 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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And Terry Collins floating Eric Young as leadoff bs. Rubin admittedly is posting this because it's like a car wreck and you'll click. It still says January on my calendar.
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Edgy MD Jan 30 2014 09:39 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm sorry. I promise not to talk about anything.
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Ceetar Jan 30 2014 09:42 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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no no, we can talk about it. That's fun. Flores to SS is humorous. Trying to figure out how to make Duda work in LF is funny. It's acting like this stuff is even remotely likely that's sorta silly. Reporting it like they're talking about it any more seriously than we are.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 30 2014 09:43 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I do like that they're open to that. Flores appears to me to be way too clumsy to be a real shortstop but young position players who can hit are things the Mets could really use so I hope they can find a role for Flores.
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Edgy MD Jan 30 2014 09:47 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I don't know about remote. It's more likely after Alderson's statement than it was before, and it's completely (almost literally) out of left field, which makes it exciting to me, even if it doesn't come to pass (and Duda did play left field! and right too!)), because I like that my team is considering game-changing maneuvers. When I treat it like a fait accompli, please let me know.
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seawolf17 Jan 30 2014 09:48 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Oh, how different the 1987-88-89 Mets would have been with Kevin Mitchell at SS.
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Ceetar Jan 30 2014 09:53 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I'd rather point it out before people start treating it like a fait accompli.
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Frayed Knot Jan 30 2014 11:07 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I suppose you could do worse than having Flores available for at least part time SS duty.
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Edgy MD Jan 30 2014 11:13 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Plus'n he's spent the offseason working the fuck out. Him, Duda, and Tejada all passed on winter ball and are up in Wisconsin making themselves quick, lean, and supple. If that doesn't make superior fielders out of them all, you know at least it's good for a couple of "best shape of my career" quotes in February. And hopefully Tejada doesn't sneak home in between and get snagged by visa problems again.
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Nymr83 Jan 30 2014 02:06 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
The worst defensive shortstop ever plays across town, sp why not?
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Ceetar Jan 30 2014 02:15 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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you saying we should just start Duda there?
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Ashie62 Jan 30 2014 10:36 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Flores at SS?? hard to imagine and almost comical...
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Frayed Knot Feb 21 2014 06:19 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Anthony Seratelli (I can already hear Benigno cheering for him) is a local kid--NJ HS, Seton Hall walk-on--attempting to make the squad as the backup SS, making him a potentially good story with only a couple minor flaws:
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 21 2014 06:31 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Makes the assignment of No. 2 to him kinda creepy. Let's put him in 87 instead.
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Vic Sage Feb 21 2014 07:59 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
A switch-hitter with a good OB%, good SBs, and decent pop over the last 4 AA-AAA seasons. If he can play even barely adequate D, I'd start him at SS today, and likely a better backup option than Quintanilla, Tovar or Flores. That's before you even get to the human interest story aspects.
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smg58 Feb 21 2014 08:39 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'd also guess Omaha is at least a bit less hitter-friendly than some of the other PCL parks, too. As a backup, Seratelli wouldn't need to be that good of a defensive SS if he is a viable pinch-hitter. I think his chances of coming north are pretty good.
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Edgy MD Feb 21 2014 08:51 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Yeah, if that training camp did him any good, he may be more or less as good an emergency option at shortstop as Turner was.
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Frayed Knot Feb 21 2014 09:22 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Bobby V used to talk about being 'three deep' at each position. That didn't mean you'd actually want to use the third guy, only that you had one in mind if the extra-innings/PH-ing/in-game injuries all piled up at the same time.
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Ceetar Feb 21 2014 09:36 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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sure, if we're talking an emergency start or a couple of reallly late innings when you'd rather Flores bat in the lineup than Tejada's.. still concerned about the _second_ guy though.
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Frayed Knot Feb 21 2014 09:36 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Not really new news, but Adam Rubin reminds us today that "the Mariners are likely to trade [short-stops] Nick Franklin or Brad Miller -- most likely Franklin -- before Opening Day."
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 21 2014 10:47 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Franklin whiffed an awful lot last year but showed some legit powa. Only 22 years old. Miller is more a batting-average guy, and is 23.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 21 2014 11:03 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Franklin played mostly second base last year, but is supposedly "more comfortable" at short (where he played throughout the minors). That said, by all reports, he's a bat-first, iffy-arm kinda guy.
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Edgy MD Feb 21 2014 11:08 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Franklin's gravitating away from shortstop already. You look at pictures of him and he doesn't even look nimble. I think he projects more like a Wigginton --- enough bat that you want to get him in the lineup, but not so much that you can shrug off what he can't do on D. Wiggie can crack a lineup for 10 years but rarely on a good team.
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Frayed Knot Feb 21 2014 11:33 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
But is he (Franklin) gravitating away from SS because he lacks the skills for it or is it strictly because Seattle came up with a better option?
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Benjamin Grimm Feb 21 2014 11:36 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Edgy MD Feb 21 2014 11:48 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Nor I, but I have read REPORTS! And the reports I've read peg him as below average.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 21 2014 02:14 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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They need power. Like, they're heavily-weighing signing Cruz or Morales, even with the draft-pick tags. We've got some spare DH-1B around here somewhere, don't we?
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sharpie Feb 21 2014 02:31 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Kendrys Morales was on the Mariners last year and wouldn't cost them a draft pick.
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Benjamin Grimm Feb 21 2014 02:34 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
If either of these guys are as good as they're made out to be, the Mariners should expect to get back more than Ike Davis or Lucas Duda.
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Frayed Knot Feb 21 2014 02:37 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I suspect that if a deal gets done it's more likely to be of the package variety rather than a simple one-for-one
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Ashie62 Feb 22 2014 08:31 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Brad Miller would be the one I am hoping for...
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TheOldMole Feb 22 2014 12:52 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Sometimes the Mets give me irritable bowel syndrome.
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Benjamin Grimm Feb 24 2014 02:42 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I wouldn't be too surprised if they tried to shoehorn Wilmer into the lineup at shortstop for a year or two until Daniel Murphy moves on, and then slid him over to second base. I bet that's what 1984 Davey Johnson would do!
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Edgy MD Feb 24 2014 03:41 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Chase D'Arnaud DFA'd by Pittsburgh.
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seawolf17 Feb 24 2014 07:04 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Sorry. We're out of little d's.
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Benjamin Grimm Feb 25 2014 09:35 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Ruben Tejada apparently not making a good impression so far. Scott Boras probably likes this news.
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Benjamin Grimm Feb 25 2014 09:39 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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And here's what they're saying in Seattle:
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 25 2014 10:10 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Well that Seattle report is based on The Rube's local report.
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Frayed Knot Feb 25 2014 10:13 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Yeah, the Seattle report is based on the NY report, and the Post report is based entirely on "one source" saying “He looks pretty much the same’’.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 25 2014 10:50 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
At some level, the Post's posture toward the Mets is a shot at the Snooze, whose writers are seen as carrying water for the Wilpons through exclusives and their interest in co-branded product at SNY. The Rube of course went to ESPN via the Snooze.
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Edgy MD Feb 25 2014 12:02 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Kernan's report actually reads like he has two distinct Mets inside sources, one telling 'em Tejada looks the same (whatev), and another speculating on Drew.
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Ashie62 Feb 25 2014 07:39 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Quite a bit of fuss over two quasi marginal guys.
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Vic Sage Feb 27 2014 10:49 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
The Mets moved Flores off SS after 2011 because they felt he lacked range and quickness, not because he couldn't catch and throw. If they're considering Franklin, they may as well play Flores. He's young, he's coming off a productive AAA season, and he's already here so he won't cost anything extra. If he can play the position even barely adequately -- Howard Johnson, Keven Mitchell, and Melvin Mora come to mind -- then the upside of his bat at that position makes it worth exploring. But what i don't want us to do is give up a decent prospect for someone i view as a similar player.
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Edgy MD Feb 27 2014 10:54 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I think you're reading a lot into a single utterly empty quote.
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Benjamin Grimm Feb 27 2014 10:56 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm with Vic. Let's give Flores a shot at shortstop. Murphy will probably be gone within a year or two, and then Wilmer can slide over to second base if need be.
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MFS62 Feb 27 2014 02:24 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Exactly. I saw Dick Groat play short for the WS winning Pirates. He had very limited range. But he played the position for many years because he read the catcher's signals, fugured out where the batter was likely to his the pitch, and positioned himself accordingly. I thought he had the least range of any shortstop I ever saw, until I saw that guy across town the last few years. But they made up for any fielding deficiency with a live bat. Sign me up, too. I want Wilmer. Later
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Vic Sage Feb 27 2014 02:35 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Don't understand me so fast. i'm not saying i want Flores as our SS; i'd just prefer they try him rather than trade a good prospect for a guy like Franklin. I'd still like to see Seratelli get a fair shot, too. And i'd prefer both of them to Tejada, at this point. But we'll see how ST goes.
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Edgy MD Feb 27 2014 02:41 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Indeed.
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Frayed Knot Feb 27 2014 02:48 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Do we have any evidence to suggest that Franklin & Flores are more or less defensive equivalents at SS? That Franklin was moved late last year and is currently on the trading block seems more a case of circumstances than a knock on his glove skills.
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Benjamin Grimm Feb 27 2014 02:50 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Like I said, give him a shot. If he can't play there, we'll find out soon enough. There's a chance that he's the best option the Mets currently have.
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dinosaur jesus Feb 27 2014 02:50 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Oh, I'm pretty sure Mitchell can hit. They need to put him out there every day and let him find his rhythm. Then maybe they can trade that Elster kid for a left fielder.
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Vic Sage Feb 27 2014 02:54 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Hojo played 34 games that year, too (with 22 starts), and 38 more games the next year, increasing every year after that, through 1990. Goddamn, i loved me some Davey Johnson.
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metsmarathon Feb 27 2014 04:14 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Whether it's tejada Drew or maybe even Flores, one thing is certain in my mind. The mets will get more production at short than the postal clerks across town
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Ceetar Feb 28 2014 07:09 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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park-adjusted of course, pop-fly home runs being what they are.
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metsmarathon Feb 28 2014 07:21 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
fWAR, bWAR, OPS+, wOBA.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 04 2014 07:49 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
ESPN's Christina Karhl says Mets should trade Doodoo, Flores and RHP prospect Michael Fulmer to Cleveland for Asdrubal Cabrera.
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metirish Mar 04 2014 08:13 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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That's a lot for a guy who's a FA after 2014, right?
that fucking 90 win crap is going to haunt this team.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 04 2014 08:21 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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The article also had the premise that Flores is disposable to the Mets because he's blocked at third base by David Wright. Flores has recently been compared to Edgardo Alfonzo. If there's a reasonable chance that that's true, I want him to stick around. (My guess: he'll be the everyday second baseman by 2016, if not before.) I certainty don't want him traded for a one-year rental.
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Edgy MD Mar 04 2014 08:44 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Douchey columnists will haunt them no matter what they say.
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smg58 Mar 04 2014 09:59 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
If I'm talking to Cleveland, it's about Francisco Lindor.
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Edgy MD Mar 04 2014 10:08 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Well, that would depend on the nature of the trade or the nature of the signing, I think. Those are just names that a columnist is throwing around.
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Vic Sage Mar 04 2014 10:16 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
i would only trade one of our top prospects (like Flores) for either one of another team's top prospects, or as part of a package for a star player under team control for a few of his prime years at fair market price. Cabrera is still just 28 (so still in his prime), and has had 2 all-star appearances and a silver slugger, and WAR between 3-5 for 4 of his last 6 seasons, with range factor in top 5 for 3 of his last 5 years (so a "star" player, i would think), despite coming off a down year. Guys have bad years. Therefore, I would consider Flores in such a deal, but only if Cabrera was locked up for the next 3-5 seasons or so at an affordable rate. I'm certainly not interested in him for a 1-year rental for the 2014 season; not at that price.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 04 2014 03:05 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
It's a steep price to pay, to be sure. But keep in mind-- that one-year rental is just 28, has put up above-league-average numbers with the bat at a premium defensive position (where he's been fair defensively, if JUST fair), and even if he walks, he walks leaving his team a draft pick.
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Vic Sage Mar 04 2014 03:21 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
sure, if the proposal was Duda/Fulmer, I'd consider it. But Flores? Not without a long-term commitment from Cabrera. And maybe not even then.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 04 2014 05:07 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
What do we think of Nimmo instead of Flores?
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Frayed Knot Mar 04 2014 06:09 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I think the current consensus is that Nimmo has the higher ceiling but also lower floor. IOW, being further away from the majors Nimmo could still whiff on a big league career entirely, but also has the more rounded tool set that makes his potential upside better than Flores who's limited by his glove & speed and is at an age where he's what you see now is closer to what you're going to get. How one wants to view those differences for trade purposes depends on the particular needs and wants of both the trading and receiving teams. I suspect that if the Mets had a specific trade on the hook right now and that to complete it they were given the choice of including either Flores & Nimmo that they'd opt to deal Flores and keep Nimmo, but that's purely a guess on my part.
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Edgy MD Mar 04 2014 06:19 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I ain't doin' no three-for-one for no Strudel or Astrodoodle or whatever his name is. Any one of those three guys can easily end up giving his team plenty more WARPs and VORPS and totAVGs than this guy in his one guaranteed year.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 04 2014 09:01 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Just watched the replay of today's game and can report Nimmo is a big, solid, athletic, strong, baseball-smashing guy. Not trading him. Nimmo is zimmo!
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Edgy MD Mar 04 2014 09:27 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Yeah. When a guy's main problem is that he's almost too selective, I can work with that.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 04 2014 09:42 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Srlsly, I was almost shocked by what a specimen he;d become. Don't take this comparison too literally but a body like a lefthanded hitting Hunter Pence. Tall and taut.
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Vic Sage Mar 05 2014 11:37 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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"enchanting"? really? that's not a word scouts use much, i bet. Oddly, despite the lack of enchantment one is likely privvy to in baseball circles, i think "disenchantment" runs rampant.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 05 2014 12:34 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Unless you're talking bare-competence-level capability, Edge, "capable" is debatable. "Enchanting?" Come on, man.
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Ashie62 Mar 05 2014 12:50 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
As it stands I would make the phone call and sign up Stephen Drew.
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Zvon Mar 08 2014 02:39 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
With Tejada doing that workout thing in MGIM's backyard I wanted to wait and see him a bit before passing judgement.
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Edgy MD Mar 08 2014 05:33 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Actually, I meant Dick Schofield, and subsequently changed it. But sure, I'll take either, but I ain't giving up no three major-league-starter level talents for a year of either, whether or not you're feeling the enchantment.
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Frayed Knot Mar 12 2014 07:27 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
John Harper: Mets still monitoring SS market - although he talks more about them keeping an eye on possible shakeouts in Seattle [Miller vs Franklin] and/or Arizona [Owings vs Gregorius] than about Drew who still seems to want what the Mets won't give and vice versa.
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Vic Sage Mar 12 2014 08:16 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
i'd sooner take the loser of the Owings / Gregorious competition than one of the Seattle guys, but I'm not sure if i'd trade Plawecki + Montero to get one of them. Maybe if they included a decent OF prospect back i'd be ok with it. Frankly, Gregorious seems to be the kind of SS that the Mets thought Tejada was, which doesn't excite me. Owings may have a stronger bat, but his reported lack of plate discipline is indeed worrisome. I've come to think that our best bet is to give Flores more ABs at SS until he proves he CAN'T play the position, and then play Seratelli if he can't.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 12 2014 09:07 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'd hate to give up on Plawecki just yet. Travis is still too much of a question mark.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 12 2014 09:17 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I think we get a SS for less than Plawecki/Montero, if that's what's really under discussion.
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bmfc1 Mar 12 2014 09:21 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Agreed. There are no guarantees so keep them both, at least for now.
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Vic Sage Mar 12 2014 09:24 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
it's not a question of "giving up"; it's about filling a hole. You have to give something to get something. We have a hole at SS that runs deep down into the organization. With d'Arnaud, we have at least the potential of an answer for our catching situation at the ML level, and AZ is demanding a young catcher for a SS, it seems.
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Edgy MD Mar 12 2014 09:25 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm not advocating this trade, but it wouldn't necessarily indicate a give-up, yeah.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 12 2014 09:34 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
My point is that the Mets are not at the point where Plawecki is a luxury. We need to see more from d'Arnaud before that happens.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 12 2014 09:43 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
eh. I just get the impression that if the Mets were willing to trade their top prospects they'd be gone already. Ike Davis is my deal too, somehow. Other guys who could go:
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Edgy MD Mar 12 2014 09:47 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I got a nice workbench from Black den Dekker.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 12 2014 09:48 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Of course, when he traded Thole and Nickeas he also threw in the reigning Cy Young Award winner.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 12 2014 09:51 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Sure but the point is had anyone raised the possibility of those two in any deal they'd have sure drawn a w"we'd be lucky if they bring us a half-eaten hot dog lolrofl!!11" response.
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Ceetar Mar 12 2014 09:52 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Little bit of special situation there given the knuckleball-catcher pairing, but mostly crappy guys get thrown into package deals all the time. "Need someone to stand in LF for a couple of weeks" "need someone to fill out a AAA rotation cause we're promoting some guys and don't want to rush the AA guys yet" It's somewhat amazing how often major league organizations simply need bodies.
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Edgy MD Mar 12 2014 10:03 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Perhaps an even better example is that the team got two guys with gen-u-ine futures for Buck and Byrdie after the waiver deadline.
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Vic Sage Mar 12 2014 10:41 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Deals aren't built around those kinds of players. It's Dickey+body+body, not Nickeas+Thole +CY winner.
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Edgy MD Mar 12 2014 10:51 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Because the popular rhetoric at the time was that by holding out for players that they assessed to have actual value --- instead of trading his short-timers for anything he could get --- that he would walk away with nothing as he did with regard to Scott Hairston the previous year.
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Vic Sage Mar 12 2014 11:21 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
i could well be misremembering, but i seem to recall the rhetoric around here being of the nature that Sandy should move Byrd before the deadline, since he'd have more leverage (which he would have had) at that point. And for all we know, Sandy could well have passed on a decent offer waiting for a better one, before finally ending up with the Bucs prospects. We're just looking at the outcome after the fact and saying "yea, Sandy!". And yea indeed (though Black could easily end up Kyle Farnsworth and tiny Dilson Herrera could get blown away by a stiff breeze and never get a sniff of Queens). But only Sandy knows whether he got the maximum value by doing it that way. Unlike Hairston, Byrd was having not just a good year but a great year and Sandy may have figured he had the luxury of waiting because he felt he could ultimately get SOMETHING for Byrd going down the stretch. As it turned out, there was an organization that finally was in a pennant race after not being in the post-season for 20 years, and so was willing to risk overpaying for the short-term gain. And it worked out for the Bucs, as the move helped get them into the post-season. But it could just as easily have gone the other way, just like it did with Hairston, and we could've ended up with nothing, not even a bag-o-balls. That it worked out well the second time (and not the first) didn't make it the right strategy either time.
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Edgy MD Mar 12 2014 11:28 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
That's 30 pounds of words leading up to "In such situations, waiting for "actual value" that may not materialize can do more harm to the franchise than good."
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Vic Sage Mar 12 2014 11:29 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
well if you say so, then it must be so.
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Ceetar Mar 12 2014 11:34 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
There's also the idea that standing firm on Hairston, and being willing to take nothing helped land the haul they ultimately got for Byrd. Sandy had history on his side when he said "This is my final offer. take it or leave it." and the other teams would believe that he wouldn't take less than that. This is the price, and you'll pay it or you don't get him. Whereas if they had dumped Hairston for nothing, the Pirates maybe wait another day or two figuring Alderson will get desperate and take less. Long con.
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Lefty Specialist Mar 12 2014 12:49 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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That's 11-dimensional chess. Sandy doesn't seem to like the proverbial bag 'o' balls. He was probably offered numerous bags of balls for Hairston and turned them down. Didn't seem like anyone was offering anything as tantalizing as the Black/Herrera combo at the time. So he kept him. If that was to build his street cred as a non-bag'o' -taker, then kudos to him. Could come in handy if Colon or others are dangled this July.
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Ashie62 Mar 12 2014 01:43 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Sign Drew....
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metirish Mar 13 2014 09:02 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
ugh, must everything be viewed through a Mets prism?
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Ceetar Mar 13 2014 09:09 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Post training consists of "If you can't find a way to knock the Mets in a tweet, don't send it." Of course, Harvey went down and the Mets signed Colon to a 2 year deal.
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metirish Mar 13 2014 09:12 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Exactly, it's the constant jabs at the Mets that irritate me , hey, the Braves signed Santana , good for them, if they had signed Drew then you could go ask Alderson what impact it has on their thinking,just fucking lazy stuff.
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Ceetar Mar 13 2014 09:18 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 13 2014 06:49 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Jon Heyman says that Baltimore and Tampa, along with the Mets, are all interested in trading for Nick Franklin.
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Ashie62 Mar 13 2014 07:16 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
It would likely cost the Mets young arm (s) to swing this...
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 13 2014 09:38 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I like Nick Franklin too, I'm intrigued with Rollins. Yes his stock is down but it's not like we need the NL MVP on this team -- we just need a guy who'd be better than Tejada and/or Eric Young, and Rollins is both of those even if he doesn't improve a lot. PLus there's the potential that a change of scenery gooses his game: It needn't improve dramatically to be better than average. I also think he's the kind of value stock Alderson likes in a budget portfolio -- a Dave Justice type whose best days are behind but still a useful MLB player.
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Lefty Specialist Mar 14 2014 06:32 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
If Rollins doesn't cost too much in talent, I'd take him. Solidifies the position for a year. Don't see the Phils trading him to the Mets, though.
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Edgy MD Mar 14 2014 07:18 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm not sure how much teams fear trading players to intradivisional rivals. Sometimes I think they care a lot. Other time I think, if the team feels like the deal they want is there, they don't care who it's with.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 14 2014 07:20 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I suspect that teams would rather trade someone out of the division than within if all else is equal, but the main thing is to make the deal that brings the best return.
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Centerfield Mar 14 2014 07:21 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
So did Mike Piazza.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 14 2014 07:24 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
And Juan Samuel!
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Lefty Specialist Mar 14 2014 07:27 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Considering the Phils finished exactly one game behind the Mets last year and that Jimmy (no shrinking violet he) would probably give lots of quotable stuff to the press about Philly, I think they'd rather send him as far away as they could.
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batmagadanleadoff Mar 14 2014 01:01 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Comments from a disinterested and unbiased observer:
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Ceetar Mar 14 2014 01:09 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I suspect a "Anonymous GM: Players that still don't have contracts should wonder about their self-valuation" is coming soon.
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metirish Mar 14 2014 01:16 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Sid Boras earnestly, he has got some balls all the same.
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Lefty Specialist Mar 14 2014 02:08 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
"If you don't overpay my client you're not trying."
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 14 2014 03:33 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Meanwhile, Tejada's performance-art continues apace: 0-for-3 with a rally-killing GiDP, an error on a routine grounder, and a barking hammy yesterday.
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Lefty Specialist Mar 15 2014 05:36 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Maybe he's just getting all his crappy play out of his system now, in spring training. Look! A cup! And it's half full!
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Fman99 Mar 15 2014 12:35 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Yeah, it's half full of liquidy shit. And it was filled up by Ruben Tejada.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 15 2014 12:37 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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How can you tell? Is it fattier or rounder than you expected it to be?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 16 2014 08:33 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm thinking Boras finally has a name for his mystery team. (And/or that the price for Nick Franklin just went up.)
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Zvon Mar 16 2014 10:37 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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He also made a good play. He's not hitting shit though. And he doesn't look in any different shape than I've seen in the past. Certainly no quicker on his feet. What he's doing under these circumstances is now getting funny. L'il bit.
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Ceetar Mar 17 2014 07:17 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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yup, he's up to 0 on the season.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 17 2014 07:33 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
If Ruben can't field and he can't hit, then I would say that there's a better alternative. Either a guy who can hit but not field (like Flores) or a guy who can field but not hit (Quintanilla, Tovar, etc.)
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Frayed Knot Mar 17 2014 08:07 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
On the whole SS/pitcher health topic, Arizona LHP Patrick Corbin (24 y/o; 14-8; 3.41 last year) is looking at probable TJ surgery making them possibly more anxious to dangle one of their young SS's to troll for mound help.
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Ashie62 Mar 17 2014 04:19 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
The Mets seem pretty committed to Tejada... I doubt Sandy has even spoken to Seattle since the meetings.....
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Frayed Knot Mar 17 2014 05:08 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I don't think that they're committed at all, or that to what degree it does exist extends any further out than maybe month to month. I think it's probably as simple as they don't like the price--in dollars or in bodies--of the immediately available alternatives and are willing to stick with him for now to see whether: a) he bounces back to something close to 2012 form b) the price of replacements drops c) other alternatives become known Again, not all problems need to be solved by April 1st
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Ashie62 Mar 17 2014 07:36 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I would like to think the Mets have a handy Plan B for SS and C.....
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Frayed Knot Mar 18 2014 06:32 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Now catcher is a position where I believe mgmt is pretty committed to the young incumbent and a place where they're going to be willing to endure the slumps and hiccups of the inevitable learning curve before looking to change course at the next opportunity. Much more so there certainly than at SS even though d'Arnaud is a bit older than Tejada, he's also yet to fumble a shot plus offers up the much higher ceiling.
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Lefty Specialist Mar 18 2014 06:50 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Whatever happened to Wilfredo Tovar? He appeared briefly last year and looked like a good-field, no-hit type, which is preferable to a no-field, no-hit type like Tejada.....is he still on the radar? Is he getting the reps at Vegas this year?
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Edgy MD Mar 18 2014 07:25 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Well, since Vegas doesn't have a roster yet, it's too early to tell.
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Zvon Mar 18 2014 02:03 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Flores made an excellent play on a grasscutter in the hole. Slid, backhanded,popped up and showed some nice arm. Well, if he can do that...
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 18 2014 02:17 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
He's trying to fend off Didi Gregorius!
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 18 2014 02:28 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
You know he wouldn't necessarily have to if he served as Gregorius's RH-hitting platoonmate and all-around infield backup. That's prolly cost Seratelli or even Satin a job though.
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Edgy MD Mar 18 2014 02:43 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Seems to me that there's gonna be two infield backups and Satin's pretty well poised to be one no matter how the Big Spring Training Trade shakes out.
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Edgy MD Mar 20 2014 07:21 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Sources have the Cardinals dangling Pete Kozma, who was, somehow, just as bad with the bat as Tejada last year --- and actually never really hit in the minors either. But he stayed healthy and I guess would satisfy the any-face-but-Tejada's crowd. He pretty much owes his career to the only time he ever hit having occured during a September stretch and into the post-season. I guess he's a modern-day Brian Doyle in this regard.
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Nymr83 Mar 20 2014 08:10 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
ZERO interest in Kozma.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 20 2014 08:12 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I didn't count on this Australia trip interfering with the Big Spring Training Blockbuster.
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Edgy MD Mar 20 2014 08:16 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Yeah, I guess these pre-season/in-season international road trips might one day give a guy a chance to break Maury Wills' record for games in a season.
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Ashie62 Mar 20 2014 09:27 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I see Martino talking up Drew today, maybe Boras wants to close the file...
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MFS62 Mar 21 2014 08:48 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
If they wanted to pay $12 million, the Mets could have had Phil Jackson playing shortstop.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Mar 21 2014 02:25 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
The Detroit Free Press -- using those unnamed sources -- say this:
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Ceetar Mar 21 2014 03:10 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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it's great, because it really means absolutely nothing. "Well yeah, I know Drew, and I've watched him reason before. I definitely could see an argument that could lead to him considering a 1-year deal with the Tigers. It's definitely something that he could've thought." And after covering it all season, aren't all of these reporters "familiar with Drew's thinking?" Is that all it really means? "I've been covering this all season and based on what's been said, this is certainly something that could be the result."
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Edgy MD Mar 21 2014 05:16 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm going to guess "aPFwDT" is a Scott Boras' racquetball partner.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Mar 22 2014 05:58 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I'm guessing that it's Scott Boras.
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Ceetar Mar 22 2014 06:41 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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right, the racquetball partner (I miss racquetball btw, anyone want to play?) is probably a source "with knowledge of the situation" or "close to the negotiations"?
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TheOldMole Mar 22 2014 09:01 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Still like Flores.
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Ceetar Mar 23 2014 08:01 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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you do now perhaps, but I wonder if it's 4/25 and he's made a handful of stupid errors or just plain missed balls..
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2014 08:51 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'd like to see them give Flores a shot too. If it gets to be April 25 and he's not getting it done, then you try someone else. I'd rather give him the chance to fail (and by doing so, the chance to succeed) than just say it won't work. WWDJD? (What would Davey Johnson do?) I bet he'd play Wilmer at shortstop.
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Edgy MD Mar 23 2014 03:34 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
More often than not? I bet he wouldn't.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2014 06:19 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Maybe, maybe not. He'd sure give him a try though.
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Edgy MD Mar 23 2014 06:58 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Looks like a try is indeed what he's going to get.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2014 07:14 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
That's all I ask!
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Zvon Mar 23 2014 08:15 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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MFS62 Mar 24 2014 07:06 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
But not with the big club:
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Mixtapewormhole Mar 24 2014 08:05 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Totally okay with giving Flores AAA SS reps and giving Tejada another chance to get himself together. Better option than trading a major league player for Alex Gonzalez, at least.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Mar 24 2014 08:08 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
That means one less potential landing spot for Drew!
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Mixtapewormhole Mar 24 2014 08:14 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Hey thanks! Quasi-new guy, actually. Anything I miss the past, uh, 8 years?
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Edgy MD Mar 24 2014 08:15 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Hey, yeah, welcome back, Mister Mxyzptlk.
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themetfairy Mar 24 2014 08:17 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Welcome back OO!
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Ceetar Mar 24 2014 08:18 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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The Mets built a cool new stadium.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 24 2014 08:22 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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which sucks
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Ceetar Mar 24 2014 08:23 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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The Mets built a cool new stadium that I love. Your mileage may vary. The pretzels are rarely burnt and I haven't had to wade through puddles to get to my seat in ages.
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MFS62 Mar 24 2014 08:38 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Welcome back.
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Ashie62 Mar 24 2014 04:22 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Have not heard the crowd roar once at Citifield like it did at Shea almost every game....
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Lefty Specialist Mar 24 2014 05:24 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Tough to get a roar going for unburnt pretzels.
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Zvon Mar 24 2014 06:11 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Good to see you back O_O.
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TheOldMole Mar 24 2014 09:49 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
The rap on Flores isn't that he's prone to making a lot of stupid plays, it's that he doesn't have the range for shortstop. So what does that mean? That he fails to get to one hit per game that a shortstop with greater range would get to? That's a lot. That he fails to get to one hit every three games that a shortstop with greater range would get to? That's a trade-off you might make for a guy who hits forty points higher than the guy with range.
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Ceetar Mar 25 2014 07:21 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Well, if he's Duda bad at a more valuable position.. Duda was 18% better than average with the bat and had ALL of that value erased via defense. you don't typically look for 18% better than average at SS, but it's also be unreasonable to expect that of a rookie. But if Tejada was playing LF, would you advocate they play Duda there instead? Because that's a fair parallel to the worry about Flores at short.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 25 2014 07:24 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Trade will still happen! Just wait!
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Ceetar Mar 25 2014 07:25 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Drew signing will still happen! no?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 25 2014 07:34 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
No.
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Ashie62 Mar 25 2014 11:50 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
The Tigers prefer 37 year old Alex Gonzalez over Drew...
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Ceetar Mar 25 2014 11:54 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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and even traded someone for him. Drew's demands just have to be ridiculous.
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Edgy MD Mar 25 2014 12:03 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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This is a simple but I think a very illuminating framing of the issue, even as it ignores important stuff like extra base power and walks. Shortstops are often singles hitters, but overlooked is that fact that, as important as they are on defense, they are even more typically singles defenders. I would estimate that 19 out of 20 balls that a shortstop could possibly make a play on but fails to are singles --- the lone exception being the popup down the leftfield line that falls for a double if the shortstop cannot race in between the third baseman and the leftfielder. The importance of outfield defense has long (and I think unjustly) been downplayed relative to infield defense. The first data-intestive list I saw of the top defensive season from all players included just one season by an outfielder (Dave Parker, in the glory of his arm). But I think what had previously been under-appreciated is that while the outfielder might get fewer overall chances and fewer marginal chances, his failures lead to doubles and triples. I think the appreciation for this fact is growing, and certainly seems to be growing in Metsylvania, as the team went out and custom built their outfield defense this offseason, but seem willing to downgrade at first (potentially from Davis to Duda), potentially downgrade at short (potentially from Tejada to some combination that may include Flores), and stay fair to middling at second with Murph. Gutsy and fascinating.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 25 2014 12:04 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
He's probably hung up on that $14.1 million figure.
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Vic Sage Mar 25 2014 12:18 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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As Edgy also said, this i think is the crux of the matter. If, in fact, Flores' defensive problems are primarily about range (and that's how its been reported), then it comes down to how many more hits (mostly singles) he gives up as a result of his limited range compared to how many more hits and walks he gets (including more XBH) than the other options the Mets have at SS, or even what the average SS may get. I'm OK with Flores starting the season at AAA to work on his SS skills, but if he continues his growth as a hitter and can limit his defensive shortcomings to be primarily about range (able to make all the right plays on the balls he can get to), then i'd be happy to try and make him work as our SS, because i have absolutely no interest in watching Tejada play anymore.
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Edgy MD Mar 27 2014 03:08 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Staffing the shortstop position for the final inning of today's game --- Eric Young, Jr.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 27 2014 03:12 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Well, it stands to reason, no? Any time you can find at-bats for a guy who can get on, like, thirty percent of the time, well, you've got to give him those at-bats.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 27 2014 09:19 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm beginning to think this whole Spring Training Blockbuster might not actually happen.
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MFS62 Mar 28 2014 07:46 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Still time.
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Vic Sage Mar 28 2014 08:18 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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well, its not quite that simple now, is it? I'm as SABR-philic as the next guy, but it seems to me a guy that gets on 30% of the time, but then can put himself quickly and consistently in scoring position (because he, you know, leads the league in SBs, and does so at a high rate), may be better option than a guy who gets on 35% of the time and then stands there on 1b, requiring more than one hit to score (unless its a HR, which this team hasn't, and isn't going to, hit that many of). Yes, OB% is important, probably the MOST important, offensive indicator, but it isn't the ONLY indicator, and shouldn't be considered in isolation.
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Edgy MD Mar 28 2014 08:40 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Alshmo, in his career, Young has gotten on 32.5% of the time, which isn't great, but isn't 30% either.
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Ceetar Mar 28 2014 08:59 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Well, if you wanted to pretend Young's net SB were an extra base, that'd bump him up to a .412 SLG with the Mets, which would be pretty good, but isn't quite the same because the SB doesn't actually drive anyone in the way a double does. It also seems to forget that Juan Lagares is not slow. He hasn't had the success rate in the minors that you'd want, but last year everyone on the Mets stole well. Daniel Murphy had a better SB% than Young Jr. But really this decision has nothing to do with Young. Can Lagares hit a little more and maybe add value via baserunning too? If so, he's the slam dunk choice. And just that he has the potential to do so is enough. They'll work in EYJr in the beginning, but if Juan proves capable, you'll see him get less and less time (unless of course Chris falters)
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Vic Sage Mar 28 2014 09:13 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
wow, way to respond to an argument that was not being made here.
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Ceetar Mar 28 2014 09:17 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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If you want. my point is actually relevant to something the Mets might do though. Figured I'd plug in the numbers while I was thinking about it. I have nothing to say about Eric Young at SS. It's almost baseball season, and that's not something that's going to happen.
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Vic Sage Mar 28 2014 01:54 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
If Collins was willing to give Justin Turner innings at SS (18g, 115inn last year), who is no more a SS than i am, why wouldn't he give it to EY, an athletic 2bman, if he needs to? And why shouldn't he see what that looks like before heading north?
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Edgy MD Mar 28 2014 02:02 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I would guess some reasons he might not might be because (1) he might view Turner's mobility limitations as less restrictive than Young's relatively weak arm (2) Young hasn't even been in much practice as a secondbaseman, and (3) Turner's innings were probably far less than an ideal choice --- one that Terry'dd probably want to avoid in 2014 if at all possible.
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Benjamin Grimm Mar 28 2014 02:05 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Yeah, but it's his "natural position", whatever that means. I imagine they determine that through DNA testing.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 28 2014 02:25 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Seratelli cut, Internet says.
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Edgy MD Mar 28 2014 02:33 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
That one inning has bumped EY up a spot in the depth chart.
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Ceetar Mar 28 2014 02:36 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Won't commit to Q either apparently. Drew? Ordonez? Me?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 28 2014 03:37 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Yeah. Big St blockbuster back on.
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cooby Mar 31 2014 09:07 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I really like that picture
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Frayed Knot Apr 01 2014 08:29 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Yanquis DFA Eduardo Nunez, once thought to be their heir apparent to Jeter at SS.
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Frayed Knot Apr 08 2014 09:12 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Nunez winds up getting dealt to the Twinkies for a minor league pitcher.
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Edgy MD Apr 08 2014 09:13 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Eyeball judgment of says Ruben looked solid at short during the Reds series.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 11 2014 11:32 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
This article identifies the Mets as one of three teams positioned to trade for Dodgers SS Hanley Ramirez (29 years old) if the Dodgers are unwilling or unable to extend the free-agent-to-be's contract.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 11 2014 11:42 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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The Mets might have the trade chips to get Ramirez if he's put on the market, but how would the team keep him? The Mets can pay somebody $20-$25M a year? This I'd like to see.
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Frayed Knot Jun 12 2014 12:36 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Another Arizona SS has poked his head into the trade rumors -- Nick Ahmed, 24 y/o, currently at AAA Reno hitting to the tune of .304/.385/.401
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Ashie62 Jun 12 2014 04:31 PM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Nice and all but Sandy is pretty committed to Tejada at the moment..
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Ceetar Jun 13 2014 07:30 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Well, you do have to play SOMEONE there.
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Frayed Knot Jun 13 2014 08:01 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I don't believe that Sandy is even remotely committed to Tejada.
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Edgy MD Jun 13 2014 08:05 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Anybody have any taste for seeing if that .418 ObP of Seratelli has any big league applicablity?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 13 2014 08:08 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Matt Reynolds is having a very good year at AA too. Doesn't hit for any powa, but reaches base a lot. I get the impression they may have some questions as to his readiness to be an actual SS (must have been playing 2B alongside Tovar but Tovar's been hurt).
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Edgy MD Jun 13 2014 08:14 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
I'm ready to try Dykstra there.
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Ceetar Jun 13 2014 08:19 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Seratelli's played the OF too, a little more versatile overall. He hasn't really played SS much (but Tejada really isn't the problem) though, he seems more like a Campbell replacement who hasn't really been bad or anything. Of course, desperate for offense we could probably use both somehow. maybe.
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Edgy MD Jun 13 2014 08:22 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Tejada isn't really the problem. But he's a problem. Right now, the problems run all over the diamond.
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Ceetar Jun 13 2014 08:32 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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well, in that case maybe the answer is just to play Flores. Going forward anyway, which we're rapidly approaching as the number 1 priority. Problems are in flux. they change all the time. Perhaps SS is one with a greater opportunity for long term answers, but maybe not. There isn't exactly a glut of solid dependable long term answers around the league or in the minors. Flores? maybe. It's almost not Seratelli. Or Tovar. As for the immediate problem of scoring runs, at least Tejada is making out less frequently than the average NLer. Small potatoes and there are lot bigger immediate holes in the offense right now. Of SS with at least 150 PA, Tejada is literally 7th in baseball in not making an out. Not slugging to save his life, but maybe that's why he should be hitting first or second and letting someone else drive him in, rather than 7/8 where he's more likely to need to drive someone in than get driven in by the pitcher, the crappy catcher, or the sorry excuses for leadoff hitters we've used this season. (Eric Young doesn't drive anyone in either)
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Edgy MD Jun 13 2014 08:37 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I kind of said as much.
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Ceetar Jun 13 2014 09:09 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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yeah. Then you started grasping for other ideas. Diluting the cause. None of those other things are going to happen for the same reason they're not playing Flores every day. They're still bridging that gap between best chance to win now, and best for the future growth. I don't think anyone thinks Tejada is the longterm answer anymore. I think they're desperately hoping Flores hits for 3-4 games in a row so they can just toss him out there and forget about Ruben, but they're not yet willing to just play the prospect guy and he hasn't even come close to hitting enough to pretend he's making progress.
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Benjamin Grimm Jun 13 2014 09:21 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Well, Flores can't hit in four consecutive games unless he plays in four consecutive games.
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Ceetar Jun 13 2014 09:29 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Can we start with hitting in two maybe? I'm all on board with playing Flores a lot and seeing if he can be part of the future, but please, show me something to warrant playing time!
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Frayed Knot Jun 13 2014 09:40 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
Ruben's decent OBP (.339) is being somewhat pumped up by his [u:3fgp9jvd]5 IBBs[/u:3fgp9jvd], something that's more a matter of where he has hit than how.
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Edgy MD Jun 13 2014 09:49 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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Anybody else think I was serious about Allan Dykstra?
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Ceetar Jun 13 2014 10:01 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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I don't think you were serious, just spitballing.
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Ceetar Jun 13 2014 10:02 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
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True, but those were also a while ago. And his numbers are actually better recently.
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Frayed Knot Jun 13 2014 10:14 AM Re: ShortStop 2014 |
All this SS talk reminds me that Jose Reyes turned 31 y/o this past week, making it also the 11th anniversary of his ML debut.
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