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Video Killed The...

TransMonk Jan 16 2014 05:53 PM

Yuck. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10305 ... eplay-2014 Owners approve expanded replay By Jayson Stark | ESPN.com PARADISE VALLEY, Ariz. -- Baseball's replay age has finally dawned, thanks to Thursday's unanimous approval by owners of what commissioner Bud Selig called a "historic" expansion of replay to correct missed calls. The new system, which will go into effect this season, will give managers most of the power to trigger reviews, by providing them with one challenge per game, along with a second potential challenge if their first is upheld. Only after a manager has used up all of his challenges, and only from the seventh inning on, would umpires be authorized to initiate a review on their own. ... In addition to home runs, expanded replay was unanimously approved by MLB owners for the following plays: • Ground-rule double • Fan interference • Stadium boundary calls • Force play* • Tag play • Fair/foul in outfield only • Trap play in outfield only • Batter hit by pitch • Timing play • Touching a base (requires appeal) • Passing runners • Record keeping *Except fielder's touching of second on double play

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 16 2014 06:12 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Considering how high-profile mistakes are caught/dissected these days AND the "talent" MLB is running out there to call these things, well, more replay is the only sane solution, innit?

TransMonk Jan 16 2014 06:48 PM Re: Video Killed The...

My opinion is that they should (for both football and baseball) have an official in a booth watching via a screen who can signal to the head ump that a mistake has been made. The challenge parade is a gimmick. If they are truly for making the game more fair through technology, then they should just admit it every time the umps goof rather than making it have to be called out.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 16 2014 07:39 PM Re: Video Killed The...

I agree on the ideal-world thing (see: NHL centralized review model). But between this good-grief and nothing, I'll take this.

Edgy MD Jan 16 2014 08:42 PM Re: Video Killed The...

TransMonk wrote: My opinion is that they should (for both football and baseball) have an official in a booth watching via a screen who can signal to the head ump that a mistake has been made. Is your name "Solomon"? How do you like them going out of their way to protect the neighborhood play at second. What do you suppose that's about?

Ceetar Jan 16 2014 08:55 PM Re: Video Killed The...

I'm not sure I could've chosen a more sensible solution honestly. The challenge bit could be reworked a little, sure, but it gives a manager a guaranteed appeal look early on, and still allows them to come out and bitch and yell and throw bases to try to convince the umps to look on their own. It's being done in a control room, which means the second the umps huddle or the manager comes on the field they should start looking at it if they haven't already, minimizing any real delay. the neighborhood play bit is sort of annoying. I wonder how that'll work. It says double play..if the runner is ultimately safe at first can/will shrewd managers challenge the touching of second anyway?

Ashie62 Jan 16 2014 09:27 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Baseball has done just fine for over 100 years without these changes. If it ain't broke...

Edgy MD Jan 16 2014 09:38 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Baseball is constantly being changed. Why, one year, they even let this black man play. Protecting the secondbase relay play just seems to be tacitly acknowledging the fear that a just review might demonstrate that 80% of the these out calls have been bogus all along. Be interesting if they go after the phantom tag though. Secondbasemen can't be protected from everything.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 17 2014 04:28 AM Re: Video Killed The...

What do they mean by "Timing Play" and "Record Keeping"?

bmfc1 Jan 17 2014 05:57 AM Re: Video Killed The...

A flaw in an otherwise good idea is that current umpires will be reviewing the work of current umpires. Per mlb.com: "Two additional four-man umpiring crews will be hired and umpires will be rotated through New York to review video feeds." This means that eight new umpires (meaning last season's minor leaguers) will now become MLB umpires. The quality of the umpiring is arguable but it won't be improved by having eight newbies. Also, MLB could have used retired umpires or really anyone else (you and I can see the call on TV, too). Will a current umpire want to overrule his colleagues or perhaps a friend? At least the umpires, who already get two weeks off during the season, will get a period of time to enjoy New York and get paid without having to actually go to a ballpark. Another flaw is that there should a crew solely dedicated to games umpired by Angel Hernandez.

Ashie62 Jan 17 2014 06:53 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Edgy MD wrote: Baseball is constantly being changed. Why, one year, they even let this black man play. Protecting the secondbase relay play just seems to be tacitly acknowledging the fear that a just review might demonstrate that 80% of the these out calls have been bogus all along. Be interesting if they go after the phantom tag though. Secondbasemen can't be protected from everything. Cmon...The color barrier and replay are not even remotely related... Certainly baseball changes and I embrance much of it. However, replay feels cumbersome and I just don't think it is needed...

seawolf17 Jan 17 2014 07:10 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Ashie62 wrote: Certainly baseball changes and I embrance much of it. However, replay feels cumbersome and I just don't think it is needed... I agree that it's cumbersome, but I do think it's needed. I don't think baseball is savvy enough to pull it off without it being cumbersome, though.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 17 2014 07:26 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Ashie62 wrote: Baseball has done just fine for over 100 years without these changes. If it ain't broke... That kind of argument never makes sense to me.

Edgy MD Jan 17 2014 07:35 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Ashie62 wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Baseball is constantly being changed. Why, one year, they even let this black man play. Protecting the secondbase relay play just seems to be tacitly acknowledging the fear that a just review might demonstrate that 80% of the these out calls have been bogus all along. Be interesting if they go after the phantom tag though. Secondbasemen can't be protected from everything. Cmon...The color barrier and replay are not even remotely related... Certainly baseball changes and I embrance much of it. However, replay feels cumbersome and I just don't think it is needed... I understand. But it just begs for a better argument than "Baseball has done just fine for over 100 years without these changes. If it ain't broke..." For some people, at some times, it has been very broke. Ask Armando Benitez. Ask Armando Galarraga. (Man, lack of replay review has been really hard on guys named Armando.)

batmagadanleadoff Jan 17 2014 07:36 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Ashie62 wrote: replay feels cumbersome and I just don't think it is needed... I'd also ban the batting helmet. It emboldens the batter, thus giving him an unfair advantage over the pitcher. And teams should have to use Amtrak to travel from city to city.

MFS62 Jan 17 2014 07:43 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Benjamin Grimm wrote: What do they mean by "Timing Play" and "Record Keeping"? To me, 1) "timing play" is about whether a runner leaves a base too early after a catch. 2) "record keeping"? I dunno. But it could mean taking another look at official scorers' decisions(hit/error). If so, I doubt any manager would waste his one appeal on this one unless it meant a no-hitter or hitting streak for one of his players. Later

Ceetar Jan 17 2014 07:47 AM Re: Video Killed The...

wonder if 'record keeping' is more an entry to just allow MLB/scorekeepers/umpires to have a rule in place to adjust things. They change hits to errors or whatever anyway occasionally, so this is just confirming they can do that?

Edgy MD Jan 17 2014 07:49 AM Re: Video Killed The...

"Timing play" is a strange description meaning replay can be used to reveal whether a runner scores before the third out. "Record keeping" means replay can be used to clarify the rare time discrepancies come up as to how many balls/strikes/outs/runs there are or whether a substitution was announced.

Mets – Willets Point Jan 17 2014 09:35 AM Re: Video Killed The...

I believe that replay should be carried out by an official whose job is to be the replay official. They would be stationed in a room in the stadium (or a van outside the stadium) watching multiple screens showing replays throughout the game so that they already have a finger on what's happening before a challenge. I would do this for baseball, football, and any other sport that needs replay. Managers/coaches, officials on the field, and the replay official may all make challenges. Once a challenge is issued, a clock starts and the replay official has 30 seconds to make a decision (and since s/he has already been watching the game s/he may not need that long). If one cannot get enough evidence from watching 30-seconds of replay, the call on the field stands. This would reduce the time wasted for umpires/referrees to walk off the field to watch a replay, or the time wasted watching it over and over again to get it perfect. In the majority of cases, those of us watching at home can tell if there was a flagrant miscall in 30 seconds or less and that should be enough time for the replay official.

TransMonk Jan 17 2014 10:11 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Agreed with Willets. Those outside the Bronx don't need the games to be any longer than they already are.

Ceetar Jan 17 2014 10:17 AM Re: Video Killed The...

TransMonk wrote: Agreed with Willets. Those outside the Bronx don't need the games to be any longer than they already are. You think this system will actually make the games any longer? If it does, it'll only be marginally, and that time will not be the normal "what's going on? check twitter, what are people saying?" stuff, because they'll be able to put up the replay on the big screen and be involved.

Mets – Willets Point Jan 17 2014 10:49 AM Re: Video Killed The...

I expect the length of games will not be affected much, but it will make for less of an interruption to the flow of play.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 17 2014 12:24 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Adam Rubin wrote: Johan Santana's no-hitter -- the only one in Mets history -- arguably has an asterisk. But it would have stood as a no-hitter, even if the new instant-replay rules had been in effect on June 1, 2012, according to Major League Baseball. To backtrack, Carlos Beltran hit a sixth-inning line drive down the third-base line, which was ruled foul by third-base ump Adrian Johnson. In actuality, the ball struck the chalk line and should have been ruled a fair ball. Under the new replay rules, only outfield fair/foul calls are able to be reviewed -- not those in the infield. And by infield, MLB means those in front of the umpire, according to a league official. So even though Beltran's liner first touched the ground beyond the third-base bag, it was not a play that would have been reviewed. MLB may adjust the rule in future seasons to make that type of play reviewable. But, for now, the league doesn't want to be involved with having to place runners on the correct bases if it can help it. I'm not sure I understand. Did Beltran's drive hit the foul line in front of the umpire? I seem to remember it happening in short left field; I would have thought it would have been beyond where the umpire was standing. And anyway, even if the ball is behind the umpire, you still could have to figure out where to place runners. If a fair ball is changed to foul, of course, it's easy. But if a ball hits the foul line just short of the warning track, and there are runners on base, and the ball is called foul and then overruled, you will have to figure out where to place the runners. It's unavoidable. I guess players could complete the play, like they do in football when a flag is thrown. But that would be quite a cultural change; both teams would have to learn to ignore the foul call by the umpire whenever it's close.

Nymr83 Jan 17 2014 01:05 PM Re: Video Killed The...

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ashie62 wrote: replay feels cumbersome and I just don't think it is needed... I'd also ban the batting helmet. It emboldens the batter, thus giving him an unfair advantage over the pitcher. And teams should have to use Amtrak to travel from city to city. I realize you are being facetious, but I WOULD look into banning those giant armor-like sleeves that some batters wear... or at least make a rule that if you get hit on one of those things it is a 'ball' (or strike in the zone which is already the rule) and you don't get to go to first base on a 'hit by pitch' unless it was ball 4 anyway. *Except fielder's touching of second on double play stupid. if you dont want force-plays to be reviewable it should apply everywhere. Overall, the rules may help with accuracy in officiating but i'm not sure they are worth the increase in game times.

Ceetar Jan 17 2014 01:13 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Adam Rubin wrote: Johan Santana's no-hitter -- the only one in Mets history -- arguably has an asterisk. But it would have stood as a no-hitter, even if the new instant-replay rules had been in effect on June 1, 2012, according to Major League Baseball. To backtrack, Carlos Beltran hit a sixth-inning line drive down the third-base line, which was ruled foul by third-base ump Adrian Johnson. In actuality, the ball struck the chalk line and should have been ruled a fair ball. Under the new replay rules, only outfield fair/foul calls are able to be reviewed -- not those in the infield. And by infield, MLB means those in front of the umpire, according to a league official. So even though Beltran's liner first touched the ground beyond the third-base bag, it was not a play that would have been reviewed. MLB may adjust the rule in future seasons to make that type of play reviewable. But, for now, the league doesn't want to be involved with having to place runners on the correct bases if it can help it. I'm not sure I understand. Did Beltran's drive hit the foul line in front of the umpire? I seem to remember it happening in short left field; I would have thought it would have been beyond where the umpire was standing. And anyway, even if the ball is behind the umpire, you still could have to figure out where to place runners. If a fair ball is changed to foul, of course, it's easy. But if a ball hits the foul line just short of the warning track, and there are runners on base, and the ball is called foul and then overruled, you will have to figure out where to place the runners. It's unavoidable. I guess players could complete the play, like they do in football when a flag is thrown. But that would be quite a cultural change; both teams would have to learn to ignore the foul call by the umpire whenever it's close. I'm like 95% sure Beltran's ball would be classified as OF, and I'm also pretty sure you could still argue to have it reviewed based on OF/IF. How many infield foul/fair balls are there? It's really just those choppers that may or may not cross foul before the bag. And those ARE difficult. did it hit something and ricochet? would the OFer have read that correctly? Would the runner on first go first to third because of it? the foul/fair in the outfielder is a little smoother. But you're still going to have to place runners. Say Duda was halfway to second and picking up steam when the ball is call foul and later overturned. does he get third? but trapped OF catches are going to result in the same mess. Perhaps umpires will be trained to err on the side of hit? But hell, Lagares makes a diving catch that is called a hit but ultimately was caught. it's 9-9 in the bottom of the ninth at Citizen's Bank Ballpark and there is one out. Ryan Howard is on third, tagging up. How can you possibly reasonably reconstruct that play? Do you award Howard home, and the Phillies the game, because you don't think Juan gets up to throw him out in time? Do you hold him because you don't think it's fair to end a game on a reversed call without it playing out, despite it Lagares taking 3 seconds to get up after the dive and it seems pretty conclusive in real time that Howard would've scored? But I guess those are the pitfalls of trying to up the accuracy of calls.

Edgy MD Jan 17 2014 01:20 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Jeter doesn't get the fake homerun. The Yankees don't win the 1996 World Series. And all the LIVING SHIT that flows from that NEVER HAPPENS. I'd give up the no-hitter for that six days in seven.

Mets – Willets Point Jan 17 2014 01:24 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Does Armando Galarraga get a perfect game under these replay rules?

Edgy MD Jan 17 2014 01:28 PM Re: Video Killed The...

That was a force play, yeah.

Ashie62 Jan 17 2014 01:53 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Baseball is constantly being changed. Why, one year, they even let this black man play. Protecting the secondbase relay play just seems to be tacitly acknowledging the fear that a just review might demonstrate that 80% of the these out calls have been bogus all along. Be interesting if they go after the phantom tag though. Secondbasemen can't be protected from everything. Cmon...The color barrier and replay are not even remotely related... Certainly baseball changes and I embrance much of it. However, replay feels cumbersome and I just don't think it is needed... I understand. But it just begs for a better argument than "Baseball has done just fine for over 100 years without these changes. If it ain't broke..." For some people, at some times, it has been very broke. Ask Armando Benitez. Ask Armando Galarraga. (Man, lack of replay review has been really hard on guys named Armando.) lol..true...I'd like to see Bobby V back with a review system in place that allows challenges until you lose one and watch Bobby go to town. The game starts to feel long to me as it is...I tire of a pitching changes in the 6th inning, 7th..8th..9th etc and picture a clusterfuck longass baseball experience with challenges thrown in...

Benjamin Grimm Jan 17 2014 02:24 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Ideally, this will help get the calls right, which is important, and they'd find other ways to shave 20 minutes or so off the average game time, which is unlikely.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 17 2014 06:11 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Ashie62 wrote: lol..true...I'd like to see Bobby V back with a review system in place that allows challenges until you lose one and watch Bobby go to town. Good call. This system cries out for a guy like Bobby V.

Frayed Knot Feb 13 2014 07:33 PM Re: Video Killed The...

MLB names Justin Klemm 'Director of Instant Replay' "Klemm* has been executive director of Minor League Baseball's Professional Baseball Umpire Corporation since 2008. He will be based in New York and report to MLB senior vice president of baseball operations Peter Woodfork. Klemm will be responsible for managing the umpires at the Replay Command Center, handling supervisor staffing at the facility and, along with the technology director at MLBAM, helping to coordinate the procedural configuration with all 30 teams." * wasn't there an old umpire Bill Klem?

Frayed Knot Mar 08 2014 07:17 AM Re: Video Killed The...

So based on the idea that you never know in advance which plays are going to be reviewed and what the outcome of such review might be, TB manager Joe Madden is reportedly instructing his players on the concept of playing 'until the 4th out' this season. The idea being that if your runners keep running or your fielders make sure to get the ball back into the infield even though the apparent third out has been made, where your (or their) runners are placed following a reversal might be to your benefit.

Zvon Mar 10 2014 05:02 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Watching bits of todays game. I especially want to see how Colon pitched (I liked what I saw). In the second inn the first base ump blew 3 calls in succession inside maybe 2 minutes. Colon picked the runner off first twice and both times he was called safe. Then Wright made an amazin' diving catch (ball already was by him) on a grounder, popped up and threw the guy out bya few inches, and the first base ump called the guy safe. Great play by Wright today. I'm telling you, they don't need this replay BS. They need better umps. Umps need to be vetted better. Hold them accountable. If they are bad umps get rid of them. I think at least 50% of the umps today suck. And you're going to make these easier for them? So they don't have to get it right. As far as the time situation, lengths of games and allAdat, sure, there are some time wasters that can be addressed and cut down on, when the ball isnt in play. Other than that the game is fine. It's people that need to slow down, and eventually they will.

MFS62 Mar 10 2014 10:08 PM Re: Video Killed The...

When I read words like "blew the play" or "umps suck" I immediately think of Angel Hernandez. Was he at first today? Later

themetfairy Mar 11 2014 06:18 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Vic Black and Anthony Recker waiting for the results of last Friday's replay. Because you guys can never get enough pictures of Anthony Recker - [fimg=450:2g2qxesh]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3822/13083761494_8887b8b46e_b.jpg[/fimg:2g2qxesh]

Frayed Knot Mar 26 2014 07:56 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Replay command center at the Chelsea Market Building http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/maj ... y=news_mlb

Edgy MD Apr 08 2014 07:50 PM Re: Video Killed The...

I get the idea that having replay as a recourse is going to cut managerial ejections by like 80%.

Ashie62 Apr 09 2014 12:27 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Now... if Earl Weaver were still managing...

Edgy MD Apr 09 2014 07:50 AM Re: Video Killed The...

... the Orioles dugout would really smell bad.

Frayed Knot Apr 13 2014 07:36 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Apparently you CAN get thrown out even after a replay review. Boston mgr John Farrell does the trick.

Frayed Knot Apr 23 2014 02:41 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Umps in the Twins/Rays game last night lost track of the count during an AB after six pitches were thrown. At that point the batter should have either been walked or K'd since, whatever the mix-up was, there were no 2-strike foul balls to extend the AB. So off they went to the headphones to get things straightened out, but somehow came out of their little pow-wow declaring that the count was still 3-2 (it should have been a walk). The batter, TB's Yunel Escobar, struck out on the next pitch. I hate it when guys go down looking at a borderline 4-2 pitch. The weird part is that Escobar appeared to ask for confirmation of the count from the home plate ump after the 4th pitch, the only possible pitch in the AB which could have been in dispute. But then, with the only possible options being either 2-2 or 3-1 not one person acted as if the AB was over when pitch #5 was clearly called a strike and #6 just as clearly a ball -- one of them should have ended the AB! It never works as well in practice as it does in theory, does it?

Zvon Apr 23 2014 02:48 PM Re: Video Killed The...

That fits my theory that umps feel there's really no need to pay attention any more.

Frayed Knot Apr 23 2014 08:24 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Gary brought up another thing that I worry about with the new replay rules; the whole wondering if the ball was moving inside d'Arnaud's glove thing. That drives me nuts in football and, when people think about what they want replay to do, I guarantee you that none of them were thinking about the type of microscopic evidence like whether the ball was slightly jiggling while in the receiver's arms as he was falling out of bounds or whatever. Now I haven't yet seen or heard about an equivalent call being made so far in MLB, but like everything else in replay, once you open that box it's real tough to limit what you won't consider.

Ceetar Apr 24 2014 07:26 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Frayed Knot wrote: Gary brought up another thing that I worry about with the new replay rules; the whole wondering if the ball was moving inside d'Arnaud's glove thing. That drives me nuts in football and, when people think about what they want replay to do, I guarantee you that none of them were thinking about the type of microscopic evidence like whether the ball was slightly jiggling while in the receiver's arms as he was falling out of bounds or whatever. Now I haven't yet seen or heard about an equivalent call being made so far in MLB, but like everything else in replay, once you open that box it's real tough to limit what you won't consider. You've got the "clean transfer" thing as well. I agree that that stuff is too much. Sometimes I flip on a football game and it feels like I'm watching lawyers argue over a turn of phrase.

metsmarathon Apr 24 2014 07:44 AM Re: Video Killed The...

the thing is, that's the same type of thing that the umpires and football refs are trying to suss out with their unassisted eyeballs. now, however, they need to figure out how much movement is too much, as in any situation where two objects collide, there is always movement. it's not so readily discernable to the naked eye, but slow it down and zoom in, and there's all kinds of shaking, rattling, and rolling going on. you wouldn't believe how much a baseball bat flexes when it hits a ball, but you can see it in the super slow-mo. i think that even though there are definitely some bumps in the road, these are all problems attributable to the early implementation of instant replay, and they are all fixable to certain extents, really up to hte limit that baseball is willing to fix it. there's nothing wrong with replay that should cause them to scrap the whole system, merely refine its implementation and usage.. standardizing camera angles to an extent, and adding even more, better cameras if coverage gaps are found, would be a first step. having dedicated replay officials for each game, also, whose job it is to begin reviewing a play AS SOON as a questionable call is made. with a dozen or so monitors of synchronized game footage, this should be a fast-response kind of thing. there's no need for it to take five minutes of serially inching through tape, camera by camera. watch it from all angles at the same time. and put a good camera feed up on the scoreboard for hte fans to play along. limiting the managers to two challenges is dumb. allowing htem to come out, stand around while waiting for their replay consultant to give them a thimbs up or thumbs down is also dumb. if they come out, the challenge is initiated. since the response is intant, there should be no extra delay. let the manager challenge as much as he wants. if he gets two (or three) wrong, he's out of hte game.

Ceetar Apr 24 2014 08:02 AM Re: Video Killed The...

yeah, the challenge bit was dumb. I wasn't aware umpires couldn't review it on their own before the 7th. It should be like that the whole time. Umpires can call for the review themselves after the 6th inning, otherwise the managers can come out and ask them. none of this challenge stuff. And look, this preserves the 'managers yelling at things' angle. Let them come out and yell for a replay. Sure, some managers might try to abuse it by calling for replays on every play, or on simple plays when their player needs a breather, but that's why the umpires can say no. (THERE's an angle. 5th inning, your pitcher is struggling, gives up a liner to left field. Go out and argue it was a actually caught or something. You get the one challenge anyway, even if it's blatantly stupid. At the very least you get a minute for your pitcher to catch his breath and regroup without having to use a mound visit.)

Edgy MD Apr 24 2014 08:17 AM Re: Video Killed The...

I have to believe the benefits have outweighed the bumps overwhelmingly so far.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 24 2014 08:30 AM Re: Video Killed The...

I think so too.

metsmarathon Apr 24 2014 08:50 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Ceetar wrote: yeah, the challenge bit was dumb. I wasn't aware umpires couldn't review it on their own before the 7th. It should be like that the whole time. Umpires can call for the review themselves after the 6th inning, otherwise the managers can come out and ask them. none of this challenge stuff. And look, this preserves the 'managers yelling at things' angle. Let them come out and yell for a replay. Sure, some managers might try to abuse it by calling for replays on every play, or on simple plays when their player needs a breather, but that's why the umpires can say no. (THERE's an angle. 5th inning, your pitcher is struggling, gives up a liner to left field. Go out and argue it was a actually caught or something. You get the one challenge anyway, even if it's blatantly stupid. At the very least you get a minute for your pitcher to catch his breath and regroup without having to use a mound visit.) I wrote: let the manager challenge as much as he wants. if he gets two (or three) wrong, he's out of hte game. i like my solution. clamps down on cantankerousness for cantankerousness's sake, while still allowing for the maximum amount of correct calls. and with a more instant review as i also proposed above, the delays would be minimized to the point where the stategery of inserting a game delay is minimized.

Ceetar Apr 24 2014 09:12 AM Re: Video Killed The...

metsmarathon wrote: i like my solution. clamps down on cantankerousness for cantankerousness's sake, while still allowing for the maximum amount of correct calls. and with a more instant review as i also proposed above, the delays would be minimized to the point where the stategery of inserting a game delay is minimized. You probably don't even need dedicated replay officials even. Even just a crappy intern who pushes a button that says 'questionable call' that loads up the call and info for the guys in NY to get a headstart on the guys on the field. Like last night on the play at home. it was probably 30-45 seconds between the play and the umpires putting on the headphones. In that time, they could've seen a replay or two and simply said "yup, he's out" and you're done.

Frayed Knot Apr 24 2014 09:39 AM Re: Video Killed The...

I'm not suggesting killing the replay idea, only that: - these things are never as clean as their proponents like to claim, and there's an element of trying to stay only slightly pregnant in it all. - we can talk all we want about how a replay shouldn't take more than X amount of time but, more than a quarter century into the NFL's experiment with this and with numerous fixes and revisions along the way, they're still taking as long as ever (if not longer) and often raise as many questions as they answer. - there's a version of 'mission creep' to these things. Just as foreign interventions often have a limited role (deliver food, humanitarian aid, etc) when they start out, they rarely stay confined to just those mandates. And just as no one envisioned a game being interrupted for five minutes while the ref sit camped 'under the hood' to determine whether it should be 4th down and just over one yard or 4th and just under one yard, no baseball fan was advocating for replay so we could minutely examine whether the ball was jiggling within Travis d'Arnaud's glove as he was making a tag. But once you open up the idea to review plays it's hard to NOT consider such things even though it adds a ton of ambiguity to it all and was never the intention to begin with. - the standardized camera angles and so on sounds nice but this isn't football with it's identical fields and network run production. - speaking of the local productions, I've still yet to hear how you guard against the local station (often co-owned by the home team) manipulating replays in order to tilt the evidence for or against a call. If YES (or SNY for that matter) has an angle which hurts the home team they have a definite incentive not to run it until after the decision has been considered, an angle that maybe the other side doesn't have, or maybe the other team isn't even televising that game (we're spoiled here in NY, not all teams show all their games).

Ceetar Apr 24 2014 09:47 AM Re: Video Killed The...

Frayed Knot wrote: I - speaking of the local productions, I've still yet to hear how you guard against the local station (often co-owned by the home team) manipulating replays in order to tilt the evidence for or against a call. If YES (or SNY for that matter) has an angle which hurts the home team they have a definite incentive not to run it until after the decision has been considered, an angle that maybe the other side doesn't have, or maybe the other team isn't even televising that game (we're spoiled here in NY, not all teams show all their games). That's an interesting one. I'd hope they're all in agreement or that MLB has access to those feeds regardless of if SNY airs them, but who really knows? On the uniform camera angle thing, while all parks are different, the diamonds are all identical. It'd be nice to at least have some uniformity in regards to that, though geography might make placing said cameras difficult. Also quality of camera too, and maintenance.

metsmarathon Apr 24 2014 10:57 AM Re: Video Killed The...

football doesnt do it because hte replay is done under hte hood, onsite. mlb doesnt need to have that limitation, as they should be offsite. if they can't hire another official for at most 16 games a day, whose job it is to look at a game, with an eye for close calls, and proactively investigate them, then shame on them. they have more htan enough money. how does hockey do it? as far as the camera angles, you're right.. there are limitations. but it should be possible to get almost hte same angles at almost every stadium. even if it means installing fixed cameras for fixed views. like the camera over home plate at citi field. this also would solve hte limitation of home field television converage, if there are standardized fixed views of the plate and the bases. again, baseball should have the money to employ camera operators if the games aren't broadcast, and also to maintain the cameras or mandate a minimum camera spec. they're paying players millions of dollars. . they can afford to run some more cameras. by having all live game fed run into mlb replay headquarters, you eliminate the possibility of a sneaky broadcast outfit holding back on a exonerating reel that would go against the home team. footballs' probalem, too, is that they've gotten to omuch wiggle room on "control of the ball" especially in such a fashion as to virtually ignore what happens when a ball and a body contact the ground and/or another body. it's going to move. duh. in football, too, there's a lot more stuff in the way, and its hard to get the right camera angles set up. the play could happen anywhere on the field. in baseball, you know where the bases are. you know where the ball is coming from, and have a general idea of where hte players are likely to be.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 24 2014 05:47 PM Re: Video Killed The...

metsmarathon wrote: how does hockey do it? ... by having all live game fed run into mlb replay headquarters... There you are. (With an official at league HQ making the call.)

Frayed Knot Apr 24 2014 07:05 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Hockey's system is probably the best specifically because it's the simplest and most limited. They review only goals, goals are fairly rare in today's NHL (5-6 per/game), and the schedule usually has an average of about 5-6 games per night. I've heard similar suggestions that baseball should also only review "scoring plays", but there's not a logical equivalent here. If a leadoff hit into the gap results in a catch/no-catch call then that call essentially IS a scoring play even though it technically is not. Again, the concept of trying to stay just a little bit pregnant applies here.

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2014 07:07 AM Re: Video Killed The...

I like how BB-Ref is including overturned plays as part of the p-b-p descriptions. From Saturday's 9th inning: Bunt Groundout: 1B-2B/Sacrifice Force Play Challenged by NYM manager (Terry Collins): Original call (S3/BG.1-2) overturned as shown.

Frayed Knot May 06 2014 08:42 PM Re: Video Killed The...

We had the first (to my knowledge anyway) game-ending video reversal tonight. Tie game/9th inning in Pittsburgh when Sterling Marte hits a leadoff triple. When the throw to 3rd gets away he breaks for home but is called out. Clint Hurdle challenges the play, the call is reversed, and the game is OV-AH Probably not the way the fans want to celebrate a win - but it's better than no celebration at all.

Edgy MD Aug 26 2014 06:37 PM Re: Video Killed The...

So, here's a way to cut 10 seconds or so off the replay rule. Designate a defensive captain (official title only for this purpose) as the guy who can approach the chief ump and stall the game so we don't have to wait on the manager to trotsky out there. If the offensive team wants to consider filing a challenge, one of the base coaches can take the case up while the manager and dugout staff considers whether they have a case.

Frayed Knot Aug 26 2014 06:48 PM Re: Video Killed The...

Here's what I say has to happen. The "umps" in NYC have to take the tact that if it's a type of call involving whether the pinkie is still touching or if it came off the base for a split second; or whether the ball has actually "settled" into the 1B's glove of if it's still just within the glove but not yet in the pocket; or any such other kind of ticky-tacky call, then don't overturn it. That will, at least after getting their challenges rejected a bunch of times, keep the managers in the dugout and cause them to save their challenges for only the more obvious wrongs.

bmfc1 Jan 04 2015 05:18 PM Re: Video Killed The...

I have the new [u:1u0u0y02]Bill James Handbook[/u:1u0u0y02] and there are stats about replay. I thought that if Terry was good at one thing, it was knowing when to challenge but he was under .500 at that: he challenged 30 calls and 13 were overturned (43.3%). (By comparison, the high for challenges was 48 by the Rays and Blue Jays while the low was 26 by the Athletics.) Overall, 52.6% of the challenges were successful. Against the Mets, 20 calls were challenged and 12 were overturned so the Mets were +1 on challenges. The Nationals were first at +11 but then again, they had a great record so perhaps the replays were irrelevant. The Rangers were last at -9 and they had a poor record.

Zvon Jan 04 2015 10:59 PM Re: Video Killed The...

bmfc1 wrote: I have the new Bill James Handbook and there are stats about replay. I thought that if Terry was good at one thing, it was knowing when to challenge but he was under .500 at that: he challenged 30 calls and 13 were overturned (43.3%). (By comparison, the high for challenges was 48 by the Rays and Blue Jays while the low was 26 by the Athletics.) Overall, 52.6% of the challenges were successful. Against the Mets, 20 calls were challenged and 12 were overturned so the Mets were +1 on challenges. The Nationals were first at +11 but then again, they had a great record so perhaps the replays were irrelevant. The Rangers were last at -9 and they had a poor record. Collins started off hot but tailed off. I did think he'd be over .500 though.