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Michael Sam...

Benjamin Grimm Feb 10 2014 12:07 PM

...is one brave young dude. I hope he has a great career.

Frayed Knot Feb 10 2014 01:20 PM Re: Michael Sam...

It should be an interesting story to follow if nothing else. I've heard competing theories as to how the fact that it's the NFL affects things: 1) that as the most macho and the most homo-phobic league his ride will be anything but smooth 2) that maybe it's the best sport for this to happen because the media scrutiny is so much less, a claim that seems odd considering how much attention the media pays to football but their access to players is so much less than the everyday or every-other-day scheduling of baseball, basketball or hockey. If nothing else it'll cut the rate he and his teammates are quizzed on how things are going down to once a week and on terms that the team which be much more able to dictate. And while it's impossible to know where he would have been selected in the draft even had he NOT come out publicly (I heard one of the self-proclaimed experts figure 3rd-4th round) the spot where he eventually does get picked will be subject to a scrutiny that wouldn't have happened otherwise for a middle-round selection. The owners and personnel directors will say all the right things leading up to the draft about how this won't play into their decision but common sense dictates that it almost surely will. Which isn't to say that they're all homo-phobic, but if there's one thing football coaches and GMs detest it's anything that falls under the heading of "distractions" (which is pretty much defined as anything not under their direct control) and just having him in training camp as "the first one" is going to be seen by many as one huge distraction.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 10 2014 02:05 PM Re: Michael Sam...

That's another reason why it was brave. He could have come out after he was drafted. Now, he gives the team selecting him the courtesy of knowing what they're getting involved with. One thing I read said he was a likely first-round pick. I had never heard of the guy until yesterday, so I have no idea if that's true or not.

Vic Sage Feb 10 2014 03:26 PM Re: Michael Sam...

he's ranked as 110 out of 250 top prospects by nfldraftscout.com and CBSSports (11th ranked DE), which projects him as a 3rd-4th rounder

Frayed Knot Feb 10 2014 04:58 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Some of the reports I first heard about this described him as someone "who will be the first gay man in a major American ream sports" -- not "may be" but "will be", as if him being in the NFL is either already a done deal or at least an eventuality that nothing can derail. But of course not even all high draft picks make it while mid-round draft picks are somewhat less definite. And then there's the possibility that his announcement will make him a lower pick and/or easier to justify cutting if he turns out to be not what the team picking him expected or if those "distractions" prove to be more than they want to deal with.

Edgy MD Feb 10 2014 05:10 PM Re: Michael Sam...

And, of course, he won't be anything like the first.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 10 2014 05:11 PM Re: Michael Sam...

The announcement that his college team knew all season means two things: A) That is one TIGHT-- or at least, ultradisciplined-- locker room. B) He's got an implicit, seasonlong rejoinder-- as defensive leader of a division-winning team in football's toughest conference-- to anyone claiming that he's a distraction.

Nymr83 Feb 10 2014 08:05 PM Re: Michael Sam...

One thing I read said he was a likely first-round pick. I had never heard of the guy until yesterday, so I have no idea if that's true or not. Who said that? I read a lot of "draft news" and I'd never seen his name in ANY first round projection. If he hadn't been named SEC Defensive Player I'd have never heard the name at all. The thing is by coming out now he's basically assuring that everyone will use him to advance their agenda... be it claiming that his eventual draft position was right where the talent says it should be ("proving" the NFL isnt homophobic!) or claiming he deserved to go higher ("proving" they are all homophobic!) and his talent analysis is subjective nobody will ever know the truth. I clicked on the "MLB" section of the World Wide Leader in Self Promotion this morning and saw a picture of Jackie Robinson, I knew immediately that some idiot wrote a hack piece trying to compare this guy to Robinson, what a joke.

MFS62 Feb 10 2014 09:58 PM Re: Michael Sam...

First, the football: He is listed at 6'2", 265 pounds, with 4.4+ speed. As SEC defensive player of the year, he has played well against folks who will play in the NFL (based on track record -the number of SEC players drafted in high rounds). But at that size, I'm not sure he can play hand on the ground as an every play defensive lineman. He may be very good as a situational pass rusher. During the pre-draft scouting combine, his measurables will be verified. But right now, a mid (3-4) range draft selection seems reasonable. Now, the lifestyle: He came out to his teammates before the college season. I'm sure that NFL teams will interview his college coaches and team mates to determine how that was addressed in the locker room. There may be NFL General Managers who feel the lifestyle will not be welcomed by their fans. There may be others who feel the media will cause a distraction everywhere he plays. There may be others who feel that their fans may be more accepting of a gay player, look at his abilities and realize he can fit in with their team. I think he will be drafted and play in the NFL. The question is where. I wish him luck. Later

Centerfield Feb 11 2014 07:48 AM Re: Michael Sam...

He's an obvious choice for the Redskins. Hey, we took the gay guy. Now can everyone ease up on our team name? Thanks.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 11 2014 07:54 AM Re: Michael Sam...

My online investigations seem to indicate lesbian cheerleaders beat him to the punch.

Centerfield Feb 11 2014 07:59 AM Re: Michael Sam...

I want to go on record as clarifying that when I google "Lesbian Cheerleaders" I am investigating pioneers of the gay rights movement.

Fman99 Feb 11 2014 10:06 AM Re: Michael Sam...

I understand that both the Packers and Rams are looking at him to fill a void on their rosters. Relax, people. They're just dumb jokes.

Vic Sage Feb 11 2014 10:31 AM Re: Michael Sam...

There may be NFL General Managers who feel the lifestyle will not be welcomed by their fans. Any NFL GM that thinks of homosexuality as a "lifestyle" is not really going to pass on Sam out of concern about the fans...they'll be passing out of their own bigotry and laying the responsibility elsewhere.

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2014 10:33 AM Re: Michael Sam...

Some anonymous (of course) team official is quoted as saying that the NFL "isn't ready for this", adding that maybe in a (unspecified) number of years they would be. Impossible of course to know how prevalent or not that attitude is, but y'know what NFL? ... Get Ready! Shifting briefly to the other college sport issue to spring up over this past weekend: the hoop player (Okla St?) who got himself a three-game suspension for shoving a 50-something fan after said fan yelled something at the player which all sides agree wasn't very nice and which may or may not have contained the word 'Nigger' depending on who's telling the story. My take is not that the player is right or that the punishment is undeserved -- 250 lb 20 y/olds can't be getting physical with paying fans over words. But I find myself at least as concerned with the fan, and specifically the very existence of this type of so-called (and often self-described) "super-fan", someone who seems to live and die with the team(s) of a university he may or may not have an actual connection to and who, in either case, appears to take the athletic exploits of teenagers far too seriously. The words 'Get a Life' spring to mind. The other problem is that the schools tend to be skittish about coming down on this type of fan because they know how much their "programs" depend on them. Nor are many of the ESPN geeks who cover this sport going to say much because so much of their programming is geared towards that type of guy and most of them are that type themselves - not that they're all abusive assholes but the part about being far too concerned with the outcomes of games involving kids 1/3 to 1/2 their age playing for schools they probably didn't attend.

Vic Sage Feb 11 2014 10:55 AM Re: Michael Sam...

Some anonymous (of course) team official is quoted as saying that the NFL "isn't ready for this", adding that maybe in a (unspecified) number of years they would be. Impossible of course to know how prevalent or not that attitude is, but y'know what NFL? ... Get Ready! which, of course, was the same bullshit team officials were spouting about integrating black players into the league, as an excuse to put off dealing with the issue. The ones "not ready for this" are the folks who think it shouldn't happen because OTHER people aren't ready for this. My take is not that the player is right or that the punishment is undeserved -- 250 lb 20 y/olds can't be getting physical with paying fans over words. But I find myself at least as concerned with the fan, and specifically the very existence of this type of so-called (and often self-described) "super-fan", someone who seems to live and die with the team(s) of a university he may or may not have an actual connection to and who, in either case, appears to take the athletic exploits of teenagers far too seriously. The words 'Get a Life' spring to mind. The other problem is that the schools tend to be skittish about coming down on this type of fan because they know how much their "programs" depend on them. Nor are many of the ESPN geeks who cover this sport going to say much because so much of their programming is geared towards that type of guy and most of them are that type themselves - not that they're all abusive assholes but the part about being far too concerned with the outcomes of games involving kids 1/3 to 1/2 their age playing for schools they probably didn't attend. The continuing degradation of behavior at sporting events reflects a coarsening of the culture generally, but i also think the anonymity of social media has accelerated the process; folks hide behind their computer screens and behind aliases to take out their awful lives on those in the public eye who have more than them, or whom they blame for their lot, or who they've otherwise targeted for their enmity to feel better about themselves. The unrelenting abuse college kids are subject to in that arena leaks into the actual arenas and we should expect more of this as we go forward. If you post something on-line, you should have to put your real name on it, just as your identity isn't hidden when you stand on a soapbox in the public square. Its fine to have opinions, but it should be necessary to take responsibility for them too.

Lefty Specialist Feb 11 2014 11:44 AM Re: Michael Sam...

Fman99 wrote: I understand that both the Packers and Rams are looking at him to fill a void on their rosters. Relax, people. They're just dumb jokes. I lol'd despite my best intentions.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2014 12:31 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Eh. My problem wouldn't be the off-color-ness there, sir; it's the fact that the punch-line is "gay dudes pack fudge and ram each other in the butt."

Benjamin Grimm Feb 11 2014 12:36 PM Re: Michael Sam...

I've always found that comparing fudge to feces is grossly unfair to fudge.

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2014 01:44 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Vic Sage wrote: The continuing degradation of behavior at sporting events reflects a coarsening of the culture generally, but i also think the anonymity of social media has accelerated the process; folks hide behind their computer screens and behind aliases to take out their awful lives on those in the public eye who have more than them, or whom they blame for their lot, or who they've otherwise targeted for their enmity to feel better about themselves. The unrelenting abuse college kids are subject to in that arena leaks into the actual arenas and we should expect more of this as we go forward. If you post something on-line, you should have to put your real name on it, just as your identity isn't hidden when you stand on a soapbox in the public square. Its fine to have opinions, but it should be necessary to take responsibility for them too. All certainly true. But specifically in this case I'm disturbed by folks like the middle-aged guy in the middle of things here, one less likely to be involved with social media, and the attitude that a degree of their self worth derives from the success or failure of the athletic achievements of teenagers who are semi-attached to a college that they themselves might have no other attachment to other than a desire to hook onto 'a winner' and bask in the reflected glory. In general I think college sports are terrific in the abstract, but I'd feel a lot better about them if they were more confined to students, alumni, and maybe some locals who actually have some sort of connection to the school. I don't know if this guy does have a legit school connection or not, but as the big time college sports of basketball and football are treated more and more akin to just a different version of a professional league with national rather than just regional appeal and implications, the idea that anything that "helps" the team--up to and including verbal abuse of players who are supposedly amateurs and often are barely out of childhood--seems to become more acceptable in their minds, and that's a condition which is unrelated to the likes of Twitter and anonymous message boards. See also the fan who poisoned the trees at Auburn (and then bragged about it on local talk radio) as a symbolic way of proving his 'Bama fandom. That guy was in his 60s fer crissakes.

Nymr83 Feb 11 2014 01:45 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Vic Sage wrote: The continuing degradation of behavior at sporting events reflects a coarsening of the culture generally, but i also think the anonymity of social media has accelerated the process; folks hide behind their computer screens and behind aliases to take out their awful lives on those in the public eye who have more than them, or whom they blame for their lot, or who they've otherwise targeted for their enmity to feel better about themselves. The unrelenting abuse college kids are subject to in that arena leaks into the actual arenas and we should expect more of this as we go forward. If you post something on-line, you should have to put your real name on it, just as your identity isn't hidden when you stand on a soapbox in the public square. Its fine to have opinions, but it should be necessary to take responsibility for them too. It aint just the internet or the fans in the arena, Mike Gundy s rant remains one of my favorite YouTube clips of all time as he calls out some piece of shit on the media criticizing his unpaid non pro players.

Fman99 Feb 11 2014 07:37 PM Re: Michael Sam...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Eh. My problem wouldn't be the off-color-ness there, sir; it's the fact that the punch-line is "gay dudes pack fudge and ram each other in the butt." Way to take all the romance out of the process. So clinical, you are.

metirish Feb 12 2014 07:12 AM Re: Michael Sam...

Instead of going incognito looks like Sam in on the down lo baby......

Centerfield Feb 12 2014 07:20 AM Re: Michael Sam...

Michael Sam Jr. Courageous young man. Michael Sam Sr. Kind of a dick.

Nymr83 Feb 12 2014 08:01 AM Re: Michael Sam...

Kiper and McShay agree he is a 3rd to 5th round guy, they noth think he will be off the board in the 4th

cooby Feb 12 2014 08:10 AM Re: Michael Sam...

metirish wrote: Instead of going incognito looks like Sam in on the down lo baby...... Metirish huh?

metirish Feb 14 2014 09:29 AM Re: Michael Sam...

just a play on words and Richie Incognito hyperbole..... Keith Olbermann ?@KeithOlbermann Guest @WhitlockJason on how revelation by @MikeSamFootball compares to Jackie Robinson, fits in Black History Month

Zvon Feb 16 2014 05:41 PM Re: Michael Sam...

I don't even understand what the big deal is about. So he's gay.

Frayed Knot May 10 2014 06:25 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Kiper and McShay agree he is a 3rd to 5th round guy, they noth think he will be off the board in the 4th Fman99 wrote: I understand that both the Packers and Rams are looking at him to fill a void on their rosters. Relax, people. They're just dumb jokes. 7th, and final, round to ... the Rams. Life imitates FMan jokes.

Mets – Willets Point May 10 2014 07:50 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Sam the Ram I am.

Frayed Knot May 10 2014 09:11 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Vic Sage wrote: he's ranked as 110 out of 250 top prospects by nfldraftscout.com and CBSSports (11th ranked DE), which projects him as a 3rd-4th rounder 249th pick, 7 picks from the final one. Whether that's connected to his announcement is anyone's guess. But this does bring up a question: How is it that are 256 total picks? 7 rounds for 32 teams = 224. So how do there wind up being 8 x 32 picks?

Mets Guy in Michigan May 10 2014 10:04 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Frayed Knot wrote: Kiper and McShay agree he is a 3rd to 5th round guy, they noth think he will be off the board in the 4th Fman99 wrote: I understand that both the Packers and Rams are looking at him to fill a void on their rosters. Relax, people. They're just dumb jokes. 7th, and final, round to ... the Rams. Life imitates FMan jokes. It's a good spot for him, considering he went to Mizzou. People there are already familiar andd supportive.

Frayed Knot May 11 2014 12:22 PM Re: Michael Sam... Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 11 2014 08:41 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: But this does bring up a question: How is it that are 256 total picks? 7 rounds for 32 teams = 224. So how do there wind up being 8 x 32 picks? To answer my own question, apparently there are various 'compensatory picks' starting (this year anyway) in the 3rd round. 4 extra picks in the 3rd round 8 in the 4th 4 in the 5th 7 in the 6th 9 in the 7th I still have no idea why they're awarded or how and to whom, or if there are always exactly 32 of them in each season or if that's just a coincidence. Whatever the case, it seems like the 7-Round draft is really an 8 round draft whether they want to call it that or not.

Fman99 May 11 2014 08:38 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Frayed Knot wrote: 7th, and final, round to ... the Rams. Life imitates FMan jokes. As well it ought.

Vic Sage May 12 2014 08:18 AM Re: Michael Sam...

Frayed Knot wrote: he's ranked as 110 out of 250 top prospects by nfldraftscout.com and CBSSports (11th ranked DE), which projects him as a 3rd-4th rounder 249th pick, 7 picks from the final one. Whether that's connected to his announcement is anyone's guess. But this does bring up a question: How is it that are 256 total picks? 7 rounds for 32 teams = 224. So how do there wind up being 8 x 32 picks? Compensatory picks are relatively recent way to compensate teams that lose free agents. I'm not sure about the specifics (what kind of FAs justify what level of compensation, etc.), but that's the concept. And why 32? Is it coincidental? i don't know, but it essentially added an 8th round of picks, spread out from the end of the 3rd round through the 7th. As for Sam, I thinks those rankings I quoted were set before his performance at the scouting combines and pro days, where Sam didn't help himself because his "measurables" were not great, so its not a shocker he fell to 7th, regardless of his sexual orientation. However, the Jets used their last 6th round pick (one of those "compensatory" picks) to draft an equivalent player, Ike Enemkpali (Louisiana Tech), who plays the same position (a `tweener - DE/OLB), doing the same kind of job (situational pass rusher) and is almost the exact same size/weight as Sam, but even slower and less productive during his college career. They also later signed an undrafted FA, Zach Thompson (Wake Forest), another similar type of player (DE/OLB pass rusher). So one has to wonder whether the Jets passed over Sam in that spot just to avoid the media circus. I'd like to think it was that (or better yet that they simply disagreed with the consensus of the relative rankings of those 2 players), and hopefully not indicative of something about our ultra-conservative owner, Woody Johnson. Who can know, but it would be unfair to assume bias. In any event, Sam will be playing in his own backyard so he's undoubtedly happy about that, and i wish him the best.

Frayed Knot May 12 2014 09:48 AM Re: Michael Sam...

Vic Sage wrote: Compensatory picks are relatively recent way to compensate teams that lose free agents. Well that's good because I was starting to worry that NFL teams didn't have enough control over player movement.

Nymr83 May 12 2014 12:07 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Come on Vic, you think the Jets want to avoid a 'media circus'? The Jets are drawn to publicity like a big dumb bug to a burning hot lightbulb

Vic Sage May 12 2014 12:11 PM Re: Michael Sam...

i think, after last season's Tim Tebow nightmare, it's plausible that they'd just as soon avoid this type of attention, for good or ill.

batmagadanleadoff May 12 2014 02:22 PM Re: Michael Sam...

Frayed Knot wrote: I still have no idea ... if there are always exactly 32 of them in each season or if that's just a coincidence. Whatever the case, it seems like the 7-Round draft is really an 8 round draft whether they want to call it that or not. 32 is not coincidental. That's the precise number of picks awarded. The NFL's method for awarding comp. picks is secret, so teams don't know for sure how many picks they'll get, if any, until the picks are actually awarded. Factors include whether a team lost more free agents than it signed, and also the quality of incoming and outgoing free agents.

Frayed Knot May 15 2014 02:44 PM Re: Michael Sam...

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: I still have no idea ... if there are always exactly 32 of them in each season or if that's just a coincidence. Whatever the case, it seems like the 7-Round draft is really an 8 round draft whether they want to call it that or not. 32 is not coincidental. That's the precise number of picks awarded. The NFL's method for awarding comp. picks is secret, so teams don't know for sure how many picks they'll get, if any, until the picks are actually awarded. Factors include whether a team lost more free agents than it signed, and also the quality of incoming and outgoing free agents. Things like this are part of my argument for football being the worst covered of all the major sports, which is kind of ironic seeing as how it's easily the most covered of all the major sports. But those who cover it constantly seem content to just accept whatever 'The Shield' allows them to know and then make little or no attempt at learning more. You'd figure with various outlets spending about 7,500 hours and countless barrels of ink just on the pre-draft part of the draft, the concept of why teams have the number and position of the picks they have would be questioned, or Hell at least mentioned, every now and then. But I didn't even know, not until reading about the Michael Sam pick and then doing to math on my own, that extra picks were part of the mix.