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90 Wins Or...What?

G-Fafif Feb 27 2014 08:49 AM

Snooze's John Harper reports Mets brass all in for 90 wins. PORT ST. LUCIE — At a staff meeting a couple of days ago, Sandy Alderson told Mets executives and baseball personnel that he strongly believes that the ballclub can and maybe even should win 90 games this season. Yes, 90. And, according to people who were in the room, after Alderson’s decree prompted discussion about how to best maximize the Mets’ assets, owner Fred Wilpon chimed in at one point with his own pointed assessment. “We better win 90,” he said, according to a source. What, Matt Harvey’s elbow surgery was just a cruel practical joke of some kind, and he’s secretly preparing for Opening Day? Otherwise the idea sounds preposterous, right? A Las Vegas sports book, Bovada, on Wednesday released its over/under proposition bets, and it put the number for the Mets at 73½. And that was before the ballclub announced that Jon Niese was sent back to New York for an MRI after experiencing what Terry Collins described as a “dead arm.” Both Niese and the Mets said they didn’t think it was anything serious, but you know how that goes with pitching injuries — not to mention the Mets. In other words, expect the worst. Either way, there is the potential for Alderson to look foolish, but he didn’t flinch when I asked him on Wednesday if he had indeed made the 90-win comment. “All I’ll say is we have higher expectations than we’ve had in the past,” he said. The Mets GM went on to talk about the importance of not only aiming high but making sure everyone gets the message. “Because I think it has to be a mind-set,” he said. “Part of creating a winning environment is setting ambitious goals and working toward them. But it has to be systematic and it can’t be totally unrealistic. I don’t think it is in this case.” So while Alderson didn’t specifically confirm the number, it sounded a lot like: “Yep, I said 90.” It wasn’t for public consumption, but he had to know his declaration would get out eventually. And Alderson probably knows that most Mets fans are likely to scoff at the notion and dismiss it as delusional or disingenuous. Personally, I don’t believe the Mets have a prayer of winning 90 games this season, but on the other hand, it’s about time ownership and management raised the bar on what is and isn’t acceptable after five straight losing seasons. Likewise, if this is an indication that they’re going to start holding people more accountable in all areas, well, why not? It doesn't mean Collins’ job should be on the line if his team fails to win 90 games — and there’s no indication that was the intent of Alderson’s message — but there’s nothing wrong with serving notice that this season isn’t about waiting for 2015 and a healthy Harvey. Of course, it would be easier to take Wilpon, in particular, seriously about his comment if the Mets’ payroll, currently adding up to about $87 million, wasn’t likely to rank in the bottom third of the 30 major-league franchises. For sure, the Mets needed to do more this winter to be taken seriously as a possible contender, but at least they’re finally moving in the right direction. At least you can see where all of this touted young pitching could lead to something big, perhaps as early as 2015 if Harvey comes back as an ace. As for this year, well, Alderson said he is well-aware that people making projections will be skeptical about whether the Mets can make a huge leap in their record. “I know (what the perception is),” he said. “But we evaluate our situation a little bit differently.” Alderson didn’t go into detail, but no matter how you crunch the numbers, going from 74 wins each of the last two years to 90 this season — without Harvey — would take a best-case scenario at just about every position. Such as: Zack Wheeler takes a huge step forward in his first full season and becomes a Harvey-like ace. Bartolo Colon defies age and injury and pitches as he did in Oakland in 2013. Noah Syndergaard comes up in late June and makes a huge splash. Ike Davis, Chris Young and Curtis Granderson each rebound in their own way and hit 30-plus home runs. Travis d’Arnaud blossoms quickly into an All-Star catcher. Ruben Tejada — or somebody — has an above-average year at shortstop. And David Wright stays healthy. Finally, Bobby Parnell comes back from spinal fusion surgery and dominates as closer, while Jeurys Familia and Vic Black develop into dependable set-up relievers. Maybe — maybe — all that adds up to 90 and a surprise season for the ages. The problem is that scenario borders on lottery-ticket odds, all the more so with Niese already a concern. Nevertheless, Alderson seems determined to set an unyielding standard, finally, for this organization. When asked if he had delivered the same message to the players, his answer was revealing: “Not yet.”

metirish Feb 27 2014 08:53 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Right said Fred “We better win 90,” he said, according to a source. Not sure I believe he said that, at least not in that way.

Edgy MD Feb 27 2014 08:55 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Other team have had and will have pitchers sent home for MRIs. You know how that goes with pitching injuries. They should do a lot of things. But the future is unwritten.

metirish Feb 27 2014 08:57 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Edgy MD wrote: Other team have had and will have pitchers sent home for MRIs. You know how that goes with pitching injuries. They should do a lot of things. But the future is unwritten. future according to Harper is not unwritten

Benjamin Grimm Feb 27 2014 08:59 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

I think that there's a chance of 90. They could very well turn out like the 1984 Mets on the strength of their pitching, even if Niese misses a lot of time. I think a total in the low 80's is a lot more likely, but the chances for 90 are better than Harper indicates.

Ceetar Feb 27 2014 09:07 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

the "everything goes right" scenario Harper lays out is probably 95+

G-Fafif Feb 27 2014 09:07 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

162 chances for 1-0 is all I ask. The legend of 1969 started with Gil Hodges (and several of his players) thinking 85 wins was doable, and "if we can win 85..." Next thing ya know, ol' Joan's a millionaire with a world championship baseball team as her greatest asset. Grimm mentioned the 90-72 Mets of '84, who, for all their budding talent + Keith, nobody saw jumping 22 wins. In more recent times, there was no reason to think the 1997 Mets would leap from 71 to 88 wins (close enough for this conversation). So, no, ya never know. I don't know that I see anything inherent in this edition comparable to that which can be gleaned in hindsight from '69, '84 and '97, but raised sights don't cost nothin'.

seawolf17 Feb 27 2014 09:19 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

I'm assuming Sandy's including Spring Training in that total, so that's reasonable.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2014 09:27 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

I sorta go along with the idea of raising expectations, which sort of goes hand in hand with the changing perception of the organization's depth and future potential. And Fred can go fuck himself. If he were actually all-in on this commitment to being the best they wouldn't have walked away from 660.

Ceetar Feb 27 2014 09:31 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I sorta go along with the idea of raising expectations, which sort of goes hand in hand with the changing perception of the organization's depth and future potential. And Fred can go fuck himself. If he were actually all-in on this commitment to being the best they wouldn't have walked away from 660. yes they would've. Fuck 660.

metirish Feb 27 2014 09:35 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

G-Fafif Feb 27 2014 09:36 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

This family does not take flattering pictures.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2014 10:03 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I sorta go along with the idea of raising expectations, which sort of goes hand in hand with the changing perception of the organization's depth and future potential. And Fred can go fuck himself. If he were actually all-in on this commitment to being the best they wouldn't have walked away from 660. yes they would've. Fuck 660. Look, let's compare this to another era (maybe the only other era) when the Mets were actually patient and sensible enough to "build for the future." The 1980-84 buildup included the acquisition and preservation of well-selected draftees (like today); shrewd trades to absorb nearly every bit of what went away (like today); led by a team that took the focus away from predecessors under ownership's thumb (like today). Cashen was in charge. Hernandez was here. Strawberry was coming. etc etc But to me, one of the real signals the Mets were fully committed to a turnaround and weren't just getting lucky in trades was when they went and hired the best announcer they could in Tim McCarver (You have to understand, McCarver was a rising star who brought almost revolutionary insight at the time). He was the kind of guy we had to lure away from the competition, I believe he was happily employed by the Phillies at the time. It had very little bearing on what was going on on the field except as a powerful reinforcer of the idea that the Mets were an organization committed to improving all around. I never get the impression Fred even comprehends the overarching big picture. He's obsessed with tactics and never a strategy. It doesn't ever occur to him that while the brightest minds in the sport are taking his wreck of an empire and reinventing it under nearly impossible conditions, that something as simple as surrendering the city's most popular and influential radio signal -- to the fucking Yankees -- is completely antithetical to everything going on to unscrew his screwed-up franchise. I'll say it again, fuck off Fred.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 27 2014 10:05 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I sorta go along with the idea of raising expectations, which sort of goes hand in hand with the changing perception of the organization's depth and future potential. And Fred can go fuck himself. If he were actually all-in on this commitment to being the best they wouldn't have walked away from 660. I don't get this post but I'm lovin' it anyways. I'm a sucker for sentences with the phrase "go fuck himself" that reference a Wilpon.

Nymr83 Feb 27 2014 10:06 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I sorta go along with the idea of raising expectations, which sort of goes hand in hand with the changing perception of the organization's depth and future potential. And Fred can go fuck himself. If he were actually all-in on this commitment to being the best they wouldn't have walked away from 660. yes they would've. Fuck 660. Getting further away from Francesa is excellent.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2014 10:11 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

That's easy for you to say, you're probably listening to Hannity to begin with. But please, no need to make this so complicated. It's not about the content of 660, it's about a powerful well-known signal (and accompanying FM). How many of you even have 710 as preset in your car? Christ I listen to the radio way more than the average schlub and don;t even stop at that joint by accident. It's like moving from Manhattan to some dump in the suburbs. It's not the right message to accompany an organization in transition.

Ceetar Feb 27 2014 10:22 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: That's easy for you to say, you're probably listening to Hannity to begin with. But please, no need to make this so complicated. It's not about the content of 660, it's about a powerful well-known signal (and accompanying FM). How many of you even have 710 as preset in your car? Christ I listen to the radio way more than the average schlub and don;t even stop at that joint by accident. It's like moving from Manhattan to some dump in the suburbs. It's not the right message to accompany an organization in transition. 710 is a strong signal..I dunno. I preset it when they swi..(right..battery swap. I literally have no presets) but this was 100% about marketing. They traded reaching the people on the fringes of the 660 signal, which aren't really the prime targets given the distance) for the tie-in to stations like Z100 where they can do promotional stuff and advertising. Yes, they're (presumably) paying less money to 710 than to 660, but they saw more opportunity in it and that's probably the right move. How many people does this really affect that they care about?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2014 10:43 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Tellin ya Ceets, your persistent ability to overlook the overarching point is Wilponian at times. For the third time, I'm not talking about the content of the station, or the listeners, or the marketing angle, or anything. Just the message it sends of going low-rent while the organization is breaking its backs to get out of the ghetto otherwise.

Ashie62 Feb 27 2014 10:58 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Fred made a business decision to go to 710 a very strong signal station comparable to 660. Niether 660 or 710 provide much intellectual nourishment anyway so I don't see what the big deal is. 90 wins? maybe but unlikely... I will however dare to dream of the making the playoffs as long into the season as I can..

Ceetar Feb 27 2014 10:59 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Tellin ya Ceets, your persistent ability to overlook the overarching point is Wilponian at times. For the third time, I'm not talking about the content of the station, or the listeners, or the marketing angle, or anything. Just the message it sends of going low-rent while the organization is breaking its backs to get out of the ghetto otherwise. but it's not low-rent, for those very reasons. I'd argue staying with the tired WFAN format is.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2014 11:10 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Ashie62 wrote: Fred made a business decision to go to 710 a very strong signal station comparable to 660. Comparable how? They have a quarter of the listenership.

Lefty Specialist Feb 27 2014 11:13 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

90 wins? They made a movie about that.

Ashie62 Feb 27 2014 11:14 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Comparable in signal strength and the number of people it reaches...710 may not have much cache but those looking for Mets baseball on radio will not have trouble finding it..

batmagadanleadoff Feb 27 2014 11:16 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Didn't WFAN dump the Mets? (I don't remember the Mets leaving WFAN).

Ceetar Feb 27 2014 11:22 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Didn't WFAN dump the Mets? (I don't remember the Mets leaving WFAN). Well officially yes, but chances are it's because the Mets didn't want to give them more money ..or take less money, or however the radio-team deals work.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 27 2014 11:34 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Well, yeah, I suppose WFAN woulda kept the Mets if they could get the broadcasting rights for free. But WFAN was losing money on the Mets -- their ad revenue was less than what WFAN was paying the Mets for the braodcasting rights.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2014 11:50 AM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Yeah well fuck Fred anyway.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 27 2014 12:03 PM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah well fuck Fred anyway. Your point's still valid. He fucked up the franchise to the point where it was no longer profitable for the 25 year radio partner to keep the broadcasting rights. To the National League MLB franchise from New York City. It's Tidewater all over again. And a minor league team in the AAA shithole of Las Vegas. And now WFAN. And fuck Fredo, too. For that MetSPeak bullshit from last week about how the Mets have an $85M payroll because they're being fiscally prudent.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2014 12:15 PM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

Of course the Vegas thing is the other part of it.

Zvon Feb 27 2014 12:30 PM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

90 wins? Its baseball. The team don't totally suck. Anything can happen. Let's watch.

MFS62 Feb 27 2014 02:06 PM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

That 90 win number from Sandy must make Terry Collins all warm and fuzzy. If they get to, or close to, 90, it was expected. If they fall much below that, then he'll be on the chopping block, no matter how many injuries the team has, because the guy who put together the organization must feel there's enough talent to overcome those injuries. Later

Lefty Specialist Feb 27 2014 02:17 PM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

I would rather have low expectations for this team and have them exceed them, than have high expectations for this team and have them fall way short. It makes for a better summer. I'm a Mets fan, I'm used to having early season hopes crushed like a grape. So I tend not to get too far out ahead of things.

Vic Sage Feb 27 2014 02:40 PM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

i assume we'll go 0-162, and then I let every victory come as a pleasant surprise. 75-80 wins for this team is realistic, with a record of .500 or better a good year. I'd be more shocked by 90 wins than by 70 wins, but a shock is good for the system.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2014 06:14 PM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

I expect we'll get 90 wins... by August 24th.

Zvon Feb 27 2014 10:04 PM Re: 90 Wins Or...What?

For years now I would say I expect a 3rd place finish, and I feel the same only because Harvey is down. If he stayed on track, with this team, I'd be a lot more excited. But I'm still a little more excited than I feel I should be without Harvey. It's all that pitching we have. Things could come together and when they do it could happen fast.