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Newsday: Matsui & Seo for Baez?

Johnny Dickshot Jan 02 2006 11:48 PM

Tommorrow's news tonight: I don't really get it. What prevents Seo from being an effective short man? Will the Mets really go from Matsui to Hernandez, or will they first try Valentin? Ask yourself that. ]Matsui & Seo for Baez? BY KEN DAVIDOFF STAFF WRITER January 3, 2006 The Mets might be able to land Danys Baez without giving up Aaron Heilman. That's exactly what they're trying to do. While the Mets remain very much involved in the Manny Ramirez trade discussions, their effort to acquire Baez is considerably closer to completion, two officials familiar with the talks said yesterday. The Mets have thus far refused to include Heilman in the package for Baez, one of those officials said, but the Tampa Bay Devil Rays think they can find a package even without Heilman. It's believed such a package would center around righthander Jae Seo, and the Devil Rays also have interest in second baseman Kaz Matsui, whom they could convert to shortstop and then trade their incumbent at the position, Julio Lugo. While the Mets have told clubs they'd provide $5 million of the $8 million Matsui is owed in 2006, Tampa Bay might take a flyer on the 30-year-old if the Mets throw in an additional $500,000, thereby making Matsui a $2.5-million shortstop, according to an official from a major-league club. Baez, 28, who will make $4 million this season, would upgrade the Mets' bullpen, giving them an all-star setup man to new closer Billy Wagner. Yet the Mets' refusal to include Heilman, who flourished out of the bullpen in 2005, exhibits their belief that he, too, can play a role. Heilman's agent, Mark Rodgers, told Newsday last week that Heilman has informed the Mets of his desire to be traded rather than pitch out of the bullpen. Heilman has no real recourse to enforce that desire, however, and if the Mets trade both Seo and Kris Benson, whom they have shopped, then Heilman could get a chance to start. The Mets remain interested in Ramirez, who has informed the Red Sox of his wish to play elsewhere in 2006, although one official characterized a Ramirez trade to the Mets as "a longshot." The Red Sox and Orioles have held discussions about swapping Ramirez for Baltimore's unhappy shortstop Miguel Tejada.

Nymr83 Jan 03 2006 12:07 AM

Baez isn't that good dammnit!

metsmarathon Jan 03 2006 12:23 AM

i'm not sure how that really improves the team in any way imagineable...

DocTee Jan 03 2006 12:27 AM

Bad Bad Bad--- Another RH reliever, and one who can walk after 06-- no thanks. Seo's a proven commodity, and Matsui's...well...

Gwreck Jan 03 2006 03:36 AM

I like this deal. Either Baez would take over Heilman's bullpen role, or both Baez and Heilman setting up Wagner appeals to me. Salary is a wash, and while I'd like Seo over Zambrano starting, we're dealing from a strength, upgrading the bullpen, and still have the option of putting Heilman in the rotation (and Victor in the pen) if we want.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 03 2006 05:00 AM

If Newsday didn't use the headline "Matsui, Seo for Baez?", I'm not even sure I would conclude it was those three from the way the article was worded. "Package centered around Seo" tells me Seo and some as yet unnamed peeps for Baez. "Also has interest in Kaz Matsui" kinda makes me think that would expand the deal in both ways. Maybe that's just the way I'm reading it. But if it is those three, I'd completely make this deal if I were TB. Getting the cheap and newly matured Seo and his new, top-shelf out-pictch, and putting Matsui back on turf in front of a pressure-free 65 home fans a night for a talented, but certainly not lights-out Baez would be great. If it is just Matsui, a huge sack of cash, and Seo for Baez, then I'll channel Roblatt and call this fucking retarted. And lastly, I still don't understand why Matsui is such a blight that the Mets would pay 5 or 5.5 mils for him to play somewhere else.

Spacemans Bong Jan 03 2006 07:08 AM

I think Seo's a little overrated, so I might do this. That being said, one has to be kinda worried about what a starfucker Omar is. I mean, when he gets his eyes on a player there's no stopping him. That has good points (Delgado, FAs) and bad points (this, Manny).

MFS62 Jan 03 2006 09:22 AM

Before you go any further, take a step back away from your keyboards and read that quote again. The writer says that the Rays would "convert Matsui to a shortstop". Apparently, the writer doesn't know that Matsui WAS a shortstop for the 12 or so years prior to this past one. So, how can you believe what he writes? Later

Rotblatt Jan 03 2006 09:31 AM

Boo, I say. Like Nymr says, Baez just isn't that great. And I certainly don't think that Seo is overrated yet.

Edgy DC Jan 03 2006 09:34 AM

Well, Bob Dylan supposedly converted to Judaisim after he had been Jewish for forty years and Chrisitian for four or five. He's just missing the word back.

metsmarathon Jan 03 2006 11:10 AM

it also assumes we ever actually converted him to second base...

MFS62 Jan 03 2006 11:56 AM

="Edgy DC"]He's just missing the word back. But if the words on the page are what he meant to say, he's also missing a clue. Later

Edgy DC Jan 03 2006 12:00 PM

Ken Davidoff --- rumor monger though he may --- generally knows what he's doing.

old original jb Jan 03 2006 01:19 PM This would be OK if not for the facts.....

If Baez was psyched to become the league's best set-up man, AND the Mets had a great substitute for Matsui waiting in the wings, AND they didn't have to pay more than half of Matsui's salary. But since Baez says he wants to close, he'll be disgruntled all year, and then leave as soon as he can. The best Matsui options outides the organization are no longer available anyway--and there is nothing to stop the Mets from trying out other players they already have without giving up Seo. Moving such a small portion of Matsui's salary is not likely to make much of a difference in what the Mets can and can't do in the rest of the offseason. Finally, Seo is still an intriguing pitcher; the Mets should either keep him, or at least get a player who is not gauranteed to bolt. Therefore, I am against this rumored trade--moreover, it seems to be in the category of things that are discussed but probably won't happen.

Valadius Jan 03 2006 01:44 PM

Never trade a good starter for a reliever.

Zvon Jan 03 2006 06:29 PM Re: This would be OK if not for the facts.....

old original jb wrote: But since Baez says he wants to close,............. Ive read alot about the possible acquasition of Baez and this is the only place Ive read this. Can anyone confirm this statement? Because if hes going to be forced into a set up role he doesnt want, I dont even understand why we should be persuing him at all.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 03 2006 09:33 PM

See the "horrible rumor" thread, which I can't seem to find for some reason.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 03 2006 09:34 PM

Oops, here it is: http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=2089&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 It's already a Featured Archive.

Edgy DC Jan 03 2006 09:41 PM

That's not right. Bumped back.

Zvon Jan 03 2006 09:41 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"]Oops, here it is: http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=2089&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 It's already a Featured Archive. thanks Yancy. Baez: ] "I don't know if I want to be a setup guy. I want to be a closer. "But if they trade me, I don't have a choice. If they want me to be a setup guy, that's what I'll do." I guess its true that he wouldnt have a choice, but I wouldnt do that to an established closer in his walk year. Thats just not right. Im sure he's glad the Mets are running up his value, though.

Edgy DC Jan 03 2006 09:59 PM

I suspect it may be largely conjecture that playing a setup role behind a top closer reduces a former closer's value. I mean, how stupid do we think GMs are? Does every one of them really say, "Well, he had a 2.15 ERA and whiffed 10.4 men per nine innings, but he had only six saves. He must be slipping." Flash Gordon got his bad self a three-year, $18 million contract at 38 years old for doing fine setup work behind Mariano Rivera.

Zvon Jan 03 2006 10:18 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I suspect it may be largely conjecture that playing a setup role behind a top closer reduces a former closer's value. I mean, how stupid do we think GMs are? Does every one of them really say, "Well, he had a 2.15 ERA and whiffed 10.4 men per nine innings, but he had only six saves. He must be slipping." Flash Gordon got his bad self a three-year, $18 million contract at 38 years old for doing fine setup work behind Mariano Rivera. I agree with that too, edge. But if a guy establishes himself as a bonifide closer, Id rather see him do what he does best somewhere, and continue to pile up career saves. I would never want to stand in the way of that. Its hard enough for a non starting pitcher to find his way into the hall of fame. Im not saying he will or should get there, but as long as he's effective I think its not fair to take him out of that all important (by todays standards) role.

Edgy DC Jan 03 2006 10:26 PM

But it's an illusion. A save is a misleading statistic. If a closer gets forty saves and his setup man five, it's untrue that the closer accomplished eight times as much, and we shouldn't hurt understanding of the game (or our favorite team) by advocating decisions that perpetuate that misreading. You want a reliever in the hall, find a way to measure what he has done whether or not he is pitching in save situations.

Nymr83 Jan 04 2006 12:31 AM

i firmly believe that the very existence of the "save" stat has hurt baseball by forcing guys into an arbitrary role that isn't always best for that game...the best example is this: opponent's 3, 4, 5 hitters due up in the 8th and you have a 1 run lead...your best reliever threw last night so you probably won't send him out there for 2 innings....do you put him in the 8th or save him for the 9th? without the "save" stat i have to believe intelligence says the 8th

Yancy Street Gang Jan 04 2006 08:16 AM

I agree with that. Except for the rare cases when a manager tries to let his starter finish the fifth inning so he'll be eligible for a win, the save stat is the only one that really impacts the game. And it shouldn't.