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So when does Peterson start feeling some heat?

KC Jan 05 2006 01:02 PM

Ok, I'm jumping off from some comments made on call-in show - but how much say does our pitching coach have in these decisions over the last year or so that have so many fans pissed off (or at least questioning, if you're not pissed off)? And if he's saying player x's delivery is dangerous to his health and maybe has problems getting along with player y and gets them traded - when does the focus shift solely to him? He came practically here baseball deity - has he done anything really special?

Bret Sabermetric Jan 05 2006 01:05 PM

I've got several fiery suns for him right now.

Johnny Dickshot Jan 05 2006 01:26 PM

I think RP's genius might have been overstated in some circles, but that's different than saying he's an imbecile masquerading as a genius, which is what a lot of folks wanna imply. He's a pitching coach is all, here until things go wrong like all pitching coaches at some point in their stints. He's not gonna change Anthony Young into Cy Young. The talk about how he hated Jae Seo and wished him to fail and holds a smoking gun in this trade seems overblown to me and a convenient but not convincing explanation for things that go wrong. People believe Seo's comments in a Korean tabloid are gospel and forget he also had trouble with Vern Ruhle and Mets coaches in the minor league, forget Seo himself, god love 'em, is a goofball who battled weight gain, used to fast on game days, insisted on being addressed by a different name for one and only year, and says he suffers a form of depression peculiar to Koreans known as "han." I'm not saying any of this are necessarily good reasons to trade him, just that there's usually a lot more to these alleged personality conflicts than is recalled by fans anxious to convict a new criminal in the organization now that Franco and Leiter are gone.

Frayed Knot Jan 05 2006 01:35 PM

Keep in mind also that KC's 'jumping off point' for this was the rantings of Joe Benigno who's one of those to decide long ago that Peterson is the man behind the curtain and is therefore to blame for everything bad (none of the good stuff falls on him of course) regardless of whether facts even hint that he's involved.

Elster88 Jan 05 2006 01:44 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jan 05 2006 01:46 PM

I feel a lot better about the Seo/Sanchez trade after hearing that Beningo hates it. That's my new sports theory: Go against the radio hosts. The one and only time I bet college football, I went 3 for 3 on picks against the spread. How did I do this, you ask? I answer: I took Russo's picks for the week, and took the opposing team. This was the week that USC played Notre Dame. He picked USC and two other games. I made a quick $150.

vtmet Jan 05 2006 01:45 PM

]People believe Seo's comments in a Korean tabloid are gospel Did Seo say something after the trade, or is this from when he got shipped down to AAA to begin with?

KC Jan 05 2006 01:58 PM

Yeah, I ain't starting a Rick Witch hunt - or at least that wasn't my intent.

Johnny Dickshot Jan 05 2006 02:48 PM

Last winter, Seo remarked something to effect of he would like to be traded, and that he had some issues with Peterson. You can prolly google about a billion references to it. My point wasn't that Seo was lying, or was a troublemaker, but that when a foreign newspaper translated to english with a vague quote is all you have to go on, AND you ignore other "communication issues" Seo's experienced with Ruhle, etc etc, it makes a pretty wobbly case for Peterson being some kind of villian, but I'll betcha a beer that's what dozens message board vets are writing right... NOW!!!! EDIT -- Linky: [url]http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/sports/200411/kt2004112216221511620.htm[/url]

Bret Sabermetric Jan 05 2006 03:36 PM

Yes, and OTOH there's Seo's excellent ERA and W-L pct, in a year when the Mets decided this was a fellow who needed more time in AAA, and then needed even more time on the Dodgers' roster. I'm glad they traded Seo instead of continuing to jerk him around because now we get to learn if Peterson is an officious know-it-all (my own vote) or a wise and prudent assessor of horseflesh. Seo didn't make up "han," you know. There was a whole episode about it on the West Wing a few years ago, entitled "Han."

Edgy DC Jan 05 2006 03:47 PM

]He came practically here baseball deity... Translated from the Korean? The Mets were third in the league in ERA, which is a pretty solid (though still gray) way to evaluate him as a pitching coach. If they really are dealing players on his recommendation without it working out I'd hope they can diminish his role as assistant GM (CEO of pitchiing) from that of pitching coach if it turns out he's doing one better than the other. CEO from COO, as it were.

smg58 Jan 05 2006 10:24 PM

So every time a controversial trade happens, we get lots of rationalizations from one side of the argument and conspiracy theories from the other. It happened, Minaya has his reasons, and I'm rooting for him to be right and me to be wrong. As for Peterson, the pitching staff has outperformed my expectations the past two seasons, so either I'm overly cynical or he's doing a good job.

Nymr83 Jan 05 2006 11:20 PM

taking away for a minute the rumors that peterson is behind such foolish moves as the kazmir trade, pitching ishii for so long, and now the seo trade, the staff ERA has been good so i can't see his job being in any danger.

Bret Sabermetric Jan 06 2006 05:29 AM

RP: "Hmmm, they're judging pitching coaches' competence by the ERA of the pitching staffs. Hello, Omar, I recommend we sign Pedro Martinez ASAP. Thank you very much." That must add at least 15 points to his baseball IQ, don't it? Of course, now that he's shitcanned Seo, let's see how the staff ERA shapes up this season.

Nymr83 Jan 06 2006 06:13 AM

I definetaly think the staff ERA will rise, none of these guys are on the upside of the hill. The Mets should score more runs though.

Bret Sabermetric Jan 06 2006 06:32 AM

Train wreck around the bend? Toot, toot. Questionable if Pedro, Glavine and Trax at a combined 110 years old can get through 2006 without a serious decline (and you wouldn't blame blame their getting old on Peterson, would you? Who on earth is capable of predicting that they'd be that old?) A real key to Peterson's acumen will be if Benson, Zambrano or Heilman can break through the "a lot of potential" stage and hit the next level--if Peterson's genius doesn't extend to working with such underachieving pitchers for two years and having them show significant and tangible improvement, then you've got to question if the Emperor is wearing any clothes beneath that goddamned warmup jacket.

Nymr83 Jan 06 2006 09:36 AM

it seems very likely to me that Benson and Zambrano have shown all they have to show considering their ages. Can Heilman improve? maybe, but i was never a huge fan of Heilman the starter (i like Heilman the 8th inning guy though.)

Elster88 Jan 06 2006 10:18 AM

I keep thinking of Bret's question from last year. Would Heilman be guaranteed a rotation spot if Castillo hadn't reached on a swinging bunt that day? Or was it an actual bunt? I can't remember.

Zvon Jan 06 2006 08:43 PM

If the media is going to cite Peterson chapter and verse as things are going down, I see no reason why he shouldnt be taking more heat when the media is looking for staff scapegoats. I think he's a good pitching coach, but i do believe he makes mistakes and it would be nice to see him own up to one.

Edgy DC Jan 06 2006 08:57 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 07 2006 06:17 PM

What do you mean by "cite Peterson chapter and verse as things are going down"?

Mark Healey Jan 06 2006 10:51 PM

My information is that Peterson came very close to losing his job, and only the fact that he was an ownership hire saved him from Tony Bernazard's "purge". This being the last year of his three-year contract, I think also played a role. I think it will be an interesting season as far as the Randolph/media/Peterson dynamic is concerned...and I'm looking forward to watching how things evolve.

Willets Point Jan 07 2006 05:45 PM

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Zvon Jan 07 2006 08:02 PM

Edgy DC wrote: What do you mean by "cite Peterson chapter and verse as things are going down"? I see his name come up alot reading informative reports. Peterson said this, Peterson believes that. He always seems to be getting a positive spin.