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Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

d'Kong76 Apr 03 2014 04:20 PM

Warm your buns here! Or Terry's.

Zvon Apr 03 2014 07:20 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I don't buy this "its the managers fault they aren't fired up" bullshit. I'll make a judgment after June 2.

metirish Apr 03 2014 07:27 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I think Kase is being a bit "tongue in ass cheek", but yeah, team looks fucking awful.

d'Kong76 Apr 03 2014 07:29 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I'm joking around, not selling any [u:2h6gh9ql]fill-in-the-blank[/u:2h6gh9ql] bullshit.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 03 2014 08:24 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I could see Terry taking a hit but things would have to get pretty awful first. I don't think Team Brainiac leaving until the club is sold or improves. This is the pilots we got.

smg58 Apr 03 2014 09:15 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Too early. There's a real possibility that the Nationals are simply a better team than us right now (shh, don't tell anybody). Plus when the bullpen era is 3467.83, there's only so much the manager can do. Well I suppose he could leave his starters in, but if anything Wheeler threw too many pitches today.

Edgy MD Apr 04 2014 06:04 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

'tain't the bullpen. Terry's seat may not be particularly hot, but there's no harm in starting the watch early to measure temperature fluctuations as they wax and wane.

Mex17 Apr 04 2014 06:21 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

http://nypost.com/2014/04/04/awfully-ea ... s-already/ I like Collins, but this bears watching. I know that there are new rules about home plate collisions this year that are still a bit confusing, but that being said I don't think that Tejada will ever be mistaken for Pete Rose, especially when you look at a few nights ago. I even think that Ike could have beat out that force play to end yesterday's game if he was running a bit harder. Looked to me that he pulled up early anticipating the result. If a change is to be made, the answer is in Las Vegas. Keep uniform #6 at the ready.

TransMonk Apr 04 2014 08:02 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I don't think Terry is going anywhere this season, but I've already seen some alarming things through three games in addition to the Tejada-plate play. Neither Parnell nor C. Young should have been playing in a regular season MLB game. Some of the blame may be on the players masking the severity of their injuries and some of the blame may go to the medical/training staff for not properly diagnosing these injuries. But Terry is ultimately in charge of making sure his players are ready to play and/or making the proper roster moves accordingly. Now we have two cogs in the 2014 wheel on the DL...one for at least 6 weeks and possibly out for the year. Could Terry have prevented these injures? Probably not...but he should have been able to keep these obviously (to me anyway) still injured players off the field. I don't have too many gripes about Terry's in game chops (though, I probably would have pinch hit for Colon in the 5th inning of game 2. I understand that Terry is playing to his strengths (starting pitching) and away from his weaknesses (bullpen), but I feel he punted on an opportunity there). I also can't make too much of 3 games...but some systemic problems from years past are evident: too many strikeouts and not winning at home. My win total expectations for 2014 are not that high, but I would like to see some obvious improvements as I feel the rotation in 2015 and beyond has the potential to be very special. But the rotation won't matter if Terry can't help turn some of the young offensive players we have into consistent everyday starters. Tejada and Davis have regressed over the past 3 years while Wright, Murph and Duda have been more or less consistent. I'm hoping d'Arnaud or Lagares can have a breakthrough year to give some young hope on the offensive side of the ball to go along with the rotation of the future. I understand that he has not had a lot of talent in the past (and I shudder to think what the Mets record would look like without the contributions of Dickey in 2012 or Harvey in 2013), but I think he's got a bit more to work with this season and would like to see some steps forward (especially on offense) in looking to the future. 90 win is fun rhetoric, but I'd be pretty happy if he could just finally get to 80.

Lefty Specialist Apr 04 2014 11:04 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Terry will be here all year as long as they don't become the 1962 Mets. Regarding Parnell, it was obvious to all that he wasn't 100% during spring training. Probably should have stayed behind in PSL, but that would have meant opening the season without a closer. Don't know if that would have affected (prevented/prevented from getting worse) the tear, but there had to be a lot of pressure to bring Parnell north. Young's injury, well, it was obvious he wanted to be out there, and guys will ask into the lineup even when they're not in top form. There, it's the trainer's job to say 'no'. They have all kinds of sophisticated ways to test things like quads. So somebody didn't do their job.

Ceetar Apr 04 2014 11:13 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Lefty Specialist wrote: Regarding Parnell, it was obvious to all that he wasn't 100% during spring training. Young's injury, well, it was obvious he wanted to be out there, and guys will ask into the lineup even when they're not in top form. There, it's the trainer's job to say 'no'. They have all kinds of sophisticated ways to test things like quads. So somebody didn't do their job. Parnell didn't report the pain until after Opening Day. Granted their were alarm bells, but you don't just send guys for tests if they're not reporting pain. Chris Young probably passed the tests. He was scratched OD but probably precautionary. Then he ran hard for a fly ball and didn't make it to the bottom of the inning. But this isn't on Terry. Guys are on the roster and say they can go, they go. It's Sandy's job to DL/hold back guys.

TransMonk Apr 04 2014 12:18 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Ceetar wrote: Parnell didn't report the pain until after Opening Day. Granted their were alarm bells, but you don't just send guys for tests if they're not reporting pain. His velocity was WAY down prior to Opening Day, which should be the #1 alarm that pain is not being reported. Ceetar wrote: Chris Young probably passed the tests. He was scratched OD but probably precautionary. Then he ran hard for a fly ball and didn't make it to the bottom of the inning. It's just hard for me to believe that Young passed any tests without running hard. What kind of tests would they be if they didn't simulate game situations? The first game situation he was put into caused him to hit the DL. Ceetar wrote: But this isn't on Terry. Guys are on the roster and say they can go, they go. It's Sandy's job to DL/hold back guys. Where does the buck stop? The guys on the roster are running the show? I disagree that it is all (or even mostly) on Sandy to diagnose injuries. Anything happening on the field during the game should be on Terry.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 04 2014 12:31 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

There was a time last season, sometime around mid-June, where the Mets were in such a malaise, and Terry seemed so helpless and frustrated, that a firing seemed imminent. But the team snapped out of it (they won 8 out of 12 starting June 16) and that probably saved Terry's job. I do think that Terry's two-year deal makes it pretty likely that he'll last the season, but a prolonged dismal stretch could get them to overlook that second year. If there's a stretch where they go 3-20 or something like that he can very well find himself gone. I don't expect that to happen, and I certainly hope it doesn't happen, but that's what I think it would take for the Mets to change managers in 2014.

Ceetar Apr 04 2014 12:38 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

There's a difference between "Go sprint" and the snap reaction to chase after a baseball. Perhaps the decision to DL him WAS Terry/etc being smart about it, where Young probably said "I can go tomorrow". But Terry is given a roster of 25 guys. He has to work with the information he has. If Parnell says he's healthy (and let's face it, it's not like he was getting smacked around.) then you use him. If Chris Young can run for you, you put him out there. I'm not really sure what else he can do. These aren't "obvious" injuries. Chris Young could still run and take BP. Parnell could still hurl a baseball 93 MPH. I'll agree I haven't been thrilled with the level of perceived preparation the last few years, and I include Collins and Warthen in that regard, as guys ready to play and pitchers pitching enough to have actual arm strength are important. But nothing that's happened injury wise really is Terry's fault or avoidable in any way. But anyway, if there's a plan in place for beyond Terry, chances are that it won't happen in-season unless they think a change gets them into the playoffs. If the plan is Backman or Teufel, which I'm hoping it's not, then you should've just given him the job this season and been done with it. If you already know the NEXT Mets manager, you might as well put him on the field now.

TransMonk Apr 04 2014 02:39 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I guess if I were Terry I would have left Parnell behind in PSL until he could come close to hitting triple digits like he had in the past. Even if Parnell says he's healthy, it would be obvious to me that if he wasn't hurt he would need more time to get his velocity back up. Again, would this have saved Parnell from the DL? Probably not...but I'm not sure what the reasoning was for bringing him north other than a lack of options and a whole lot of hope that everything was OK despite warning signs. Same with Young. I would have made him sprint from his position to the foul pole five times in a row with me watching him in the outfield during BP. Maybe he did something similar and Young passed the test, but it surprises me that the very first time Young ran in a game situation he pulled up limping. His situation was one where one or two more days of healing might have saved him a trip to the DL. There is also the issue of how much he can trust his players now that two of them have basically tried to cover up injuries. I understand why athletes do this, but part of being a good manager seems to me to be the ability to establish a certain level of trust that helps prevent these situations from occurring.

Ashie62 Apr 04 2014 04:30 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Chris Young reported that he had tweaked his quad in Montreal... If the Mets go like 3-18 Terry might get whacked...

TransMonk Apr 04 2014 07:02 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Terry's looking good on the Duda call today, though.

Edgy MD Apr 04 2014 08:15 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Ashie62 wrote: Chris Young reported that he had tweaked his quad in Montreal... If the Mets go like 3-18 Terry might get whacked... If a team goes 3-18, John J. McGraw may get whacked.

TransMonk Aug 13 2014 05:39 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. Rinse, repeat. Is five times enough to get the stink off?

Gwreck Aug 13 2014 07:27 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Well, he is under contract for 2015 already. I can't see the Mets eating that contract. He certainly hasn't earned any extensions past 2015 however.

Edgy MD Aug 13 2014 07:39 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I can't see any reason they wouldn't if it was the move they wanted.

bmfc1 Aug 13 2014 07:59 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

He should be fired for that bunt attempt alone.

MFS62 Aug 13 2014 09:24 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

"Fail. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett Later

Ashie62 Aug 14 2014 11:59 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Terry...thank you for your efforts and good luck in your future endeavours...

MFS62 Aug 14 2014 02:04 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

"Sometimes, the hardest part isn't letting go. Its learning to start over". - Nicole Savon Later

Edgy MD Aug 14 2014 02:48 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

You ever notice how, in comic strips, the person on the left always speaks first? -- George Carlin

MFS62 Aug 14 2014 03:33 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Nice quote. I liked Carlin, too. But both of my quotes were pertinent to my feelings about Collins. I feel its time to move on. Later

Ashie62 Sep 01 2014 04:24 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

It has to be at least being talked about by the higher ups to let Terry go.

TransMonk Sep 01 2014 04:59 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I support moving on from Terry more with each embarrassing loss.

d'Kong76 Sep 01 2014 05:19 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I don't think he's the problem, but at this point I guess a fresh face next spring would be ok.

d'Kong76 Sep 04 2014 07:51 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

"The manager has his backers in the organization, and he has his detractors; both sides seem still to be discussing the future." - Martino Rivetting stuff! Is it seem still, or still seem?

Ceetar Sep 04 2014 07:55 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

d'Kong76 wrote: "The manager has his backers in the organization, and he has his detractors; both sides seem still to be discussing the future." - Martino Rivetting stuff! Is it seem still, or still seem? still seem i'm pretty sure? Yes. Shockingly, Mets are still discussing the future of a guy they have working for them. Bet no other companies do that.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2014 09:42 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Joe McDonald assures me that he has a reliable source telling him that as long as Fred Wilpon is alive and presiding, Terry's the manager.

TransMonk Sep 04 2014 10:13 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Terry Collings: 626 games of .465 ball for the NYM Wally Backman: 2014 PCL Manager of the Year I'm not a a Backman backer, but something's not right here if Collins is retained. I'm less optimistic about 2015 than I was two months ago.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2014 10:58 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Wally Backman reportedly getting a September call up. It's 1980 all over again. He'll be joining the team on the 19th. I don't like to be drawn into seeing meaning where there is none, but I tend to see meaning in this. If I'm remembering correctly, he joined the team for September in 2010 or 2011. Teufel, I think, got called up for September of 2011 or 2012, before joining the staff permanently. Pedro Lopez got a trip to New York last year. So you'd figure Frank Viola or somebody would get the call this time if it was merely a courtesy call. When Terry Collins was the minor league field coordinator, he made a point of staying away from the major league part of the Mets spring training complex, knowing that Jerry Manuel was on the hot seat, and thinking that it would make the seat a lot hotter having an experienced big league manager and potential replacement hanging around and popping his head up. In the same sense, Terry and Sandy Alderson have GOT to know an invitation to New York for Backman is going to trigger a drumbeat for Wallyball in New York. But he's getting the call anyhow. So there you have it. I'm saying that Backman getting called up for the last nine games means that Terry intends to step aside at the end of the season, and the Mets intend to hire Wally Backman. (On the other hand, it's a hell of time to be turning to a guy with a less-than-clean (though ambiguously so) record of domestic relations.)

TransMonk Sep 12 2014 11:27 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I'm not sure that Wally is the right guy (mostly because I haven't paid close attention to him in Vegas)...but, I don't think it is any secret that I have doubts about Terry being the right guy going forward either. I truly believe (it's cynical, I know) that Terry was hired to be a placeholder while the team got through the financial mess left over from the Madoff thing. I don't think it was ever the intention of ownership or management that he was going to lead them to consistent victory...not that Terry was incapable, but rather they knew that the talent provided to him was going to be touch and go during the rebuild that they never were going to term a "rebuild" and they wanted someone with the skills to manage the team through losing seasons while still keeping hope and morale as high as possible. I do think Terry has done his best at that. If Terry would have happened to succeed during his time, then it would be considered a bonus by the club, but not the expectation. Considering Backman's success with the AAA club and given the fact that there is some young talent that is now going to find itself on the big league club in '15 that was part of Backman's success in LV, I would not be surprised if he got the promotion. He would provide a young spark to a younger team looking to compete. I would also consider it an unspoken sign that the unspoken "rebuild" is nearing completion.

Ceetar Sep 12 2014 11:42 AM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Backman came up last year too didn't he? I'd hire Teufel over Wally.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2014 12:35 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I'm pretty sure last year was just Pedro Lopez.

Ceetar Sep 12 2014 12:42 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Edgy MD wrote: I'm pretty sure last year was just Pedro Lopez. you're right, it was actually sort of a "thing" that Wally didn't get to hang with the big club.

Ashie62 Sep 12 2014 02:04 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I like Wally. I was impressed by the expletive laced video that made the rounds on youtube chewing his team out. It was a constructive and pointed session, not a tirade. The dugout is full of grown men and I believe Wally is a good candidate to get the most out of their professional skills.

Frayed Knot Sep 12 2014 02:37 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Ashie62 wrote: ... It was a constructive and pointed session, not a tirade. Although some of Wally's actions certainly qualify under the heading of 'Tirades' I'm not necessarily anti- Wally. I am though wary of the idea that he's the favorite simply because of being an '86er -- not necessarily the holy grail on this board but is among at least a certain pct of NYM fans who have convinced themselves that only an '86 hero can succeed here (Keith becomes the hitting coach and Ronnie the PC under this scenario). Also, if there are those who's objection to Terry is excessive bunting (even though I think it's been shown that he calls for them less often than the norm) or that he's over-using the young arms (rumored to be mgmt's objection) I suspect that one or both of those would get worse not better in the small-ball/tough-guy Wally-world.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2014 03:04 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I have no doubt that Terry stays up nights worrying about injured arms.

dgwphotography Sep 12 2014 03:20 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

The timing of this is more than a little suspect. I sense some wag the dog here to get the conversation to be about Terry and Wally instead of the lawsuit...

Frayed Knot Sep 12 2014 03:33 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

I think that's a bit far-fetched. The AAA season just ended a few days ago and this type of bring up the minor league managers as a reward or just as a taste is not exactly unknown across MLB.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2014 03:43 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Especially since Wally won't be joining the team for another week. I mean, have you noticed a bunch of Wally talk burning up the internet and dominating the conversation about the team and making the Wilpon story go away? And if the idea is really to generate a Wally-as-manager story, that's a really terrible job at spin control if they don't actually intend to appoint the guy. That just deliberately creates more disappointment.

dgwphotography Sep 12 2014 03:56 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Well, time will tell,but these owners have been known to have a thin skin in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me.

d'Kong76 Sep 12 2014 04:13 PM Re: Terry Collins on-the-hot-seat Thread

Thin wallets too... d'oh!!