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People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 08 2014 08:11 AM

Adam Rubin "has lobby" to take him down, it seems. I know he's let it out before that he resents the lack of access he's been afforded, particularly as the team grants just as much face time to the Mom's Basement Press Association. But he hasn't suggested he get fired until, um, now. From his "observerations of the Mets column: 5. Sandy spotlight intensifying. Say what you want about Terry Collins, but educated fans know where the fault will lie if the Mets end up with a sixth straight losing season in 2014. Alderson has now had four offseasons to fix things. Yes, the rotation beginning next season should be very strong with Matt Harvey returning and Noah Syndergaard looking like a future star. But, for now, the Mets’ success is dependent upon Alderson’s ability to identify cost-effective talent. His track record in selecting the right free agents has been rather weak. I don't think the Mets are even going to be "allowed" to fire Sandy (I believe the quants counting the debt ratios are calling the shots) but if they do it's going to be a freaking mess.

Nymr83 Apr 08 2014 08:15 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Adam Rubin needs to shut up, 4 years isnt enough time to turn around a trainwreck of a minor league system... anyone he drafted is only first hitting the upper levels of the minors now! I havent seen any other GMs go out and acquire Zach Wheeler, Noah Syndergaard and Travis d'Arnaud for a 36 year old pitcher who just had his career year and a 3-month Beltran rental. Alderson is doing a great job. Fire Rubin. and fuck the traditional media and their sense of entitlement. if "Mom's Basement Press Association" is actually writing quality stories then they are just as deserving of a seat at the press table as he is.

Edgy MD Apr 08 2014 08:21 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Think of all the money he was given, and he blew it on Jason Bay, Luis Castillo, Johan Santana, Billy Wagner, Francisco Rodriguez. I could go on!! For God's sake, the man set up a deal that has us still paying Bobby Bonilla!! What was he thinking? It was Sandy Alderson that asked me root for Tom Glavine as my opening day pitcher, and it was Sandy Alderson that denied me the opportunity to rub myself all over with a Kevin Mitchell MVP season, which WAS MY BIRTHRIGHT!! Firing is TOO GOOD FOR HIM!

metirish Apr 08 2014 08:32 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Say what you want about Terry Collins, but educated fans know where the fault will lie if the Mets end up with a sixth straight losing season in 2014. Alderson has now had four offseasons to fix things. educated fans?, meaning smart folk like Rubin?, way to distinguish yourself asshole. I need to see progress, I trust in Alderson and his team.

Centerfield Apr 08 2014 08:34 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I'm sure that most of the FIRE SANDY crowd are being reactionary, and we do have to assume that his hands have been tied economically throughout his tenure, but there are certainly fair criticisms of Sandy: 1. Missed an opportunity to sign Reyes to an extension after his down year, one year prior to free agency. Not to say he would have reached a deal, but definitely missed a window to negotiate. 2. No draftees have made any impact. In fact, except for Dominic Smith, who is still years away, none are even on the radar. 3. Re-stocking the system with pitching has largely been from trading away Minaya commodities (Wheeler from Beltran, Syndegaard and d'Arnaud for Dickey). Kudos to Sandy for making solid trades, but the level of difficulty here is not earth-shattering. The system is still missing impact position players. Still, I'd rather have Sandy at the helm than anyone else I know, but that doesn't mean the man should be bulletproof for all of these losing seasons.

Edgy MD Apr 08 2014 08:40 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

“Pelfrey without the split or breaking ball” — Adam Rubin (@AdamRubinESPN) on Matt Harvey, July 12, 2012 The work he puts in suggests he's more reporter than we deserve. What would we do without him? And then, every few months or so, he's got land one of these pointless Mike Francessa-like everbody's-an-idiot-but-me punches, positioning himself as both populist and elitist and looking phony and sad in both roles. The notion that no draftees have made any impact isn't really fair. And two and a half years out from the first draft is a tough time to definitievely judge. Development takes time, especially when drafting high schoolers. AND you have to take amateur foreign free agent signings along with the draftees.

Ceetar Apr 08 2014 08:46 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Centerfield wrote: I'm sure that most of the FIRE SANDY crowd are being reactionary, and we do have to assume that his hands have been tied economically throughout his tenure, but there are certainly fair criticisms of Sandy: 1. Missed an opportunity to sign Reyes to an extension after his down year, one year prior to free agency. Not to say he would have reached a deal, but definitely missed a window to negotiate. 2. No draftees have made any impact. In fact, except for Dominic Smith, who is still years away, none are even on the radar. 3. Re-stocking the system with pitching has largely been from trading away Minaya commodities (Wheeler from Beltran, Syndegaard and d'Arnaud for Dickey). Kudos to Sandy for making solid trades, but the level of difficulty here is not earth-shattering. The system is still missing impact position players. Still, I'd rather have Sandy at the helm than anyone else I know, but that doesn't mean the man should be bulletproof for all of these losing seasons. 1. yeah, the Reyes extension that offseason instead of simply picking up the option seemed like a really wise move, especially as the FA market has exploded lately. But he'd been there roughly a month at the time so I suspect he viewed it as a chance to actually evaluate the player himself rather than just throwing money at what was already here. (This was also pre the Madoff stuff coming out, though who knows if that came up at the time) 2. The impact players is a fair point I think. He brought in the pitching prospects but hasn't quite found the hitters. 3. While the level of difficulty was not high, he gets credit for sticking to his guns and demanding the moon. It would've been easy and even understandable if he accepted less than he got for those guys. (or for Byrd/Buck) There are other things of course. The bullpen. The Pagan giveaway. Also the unwillingness to overpay even a little bit for most guys (perhaps Granderson is a shift in this regard) and being willing to let them walk. I get that the Mets aren't quite at the 'go for it stage' but sometimes you need to make bolder moves to get into that position. But this negative spin stuff is why i don't read Rubin. I get that he hustles and gets more information and schmoozes everyone in the organization for extra info, he's a fine reporter, but those extra nuggets aren't worth to me the baggage and bitchiness he brings.

G-Fafif Apr 08 2014 08:47 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Alderson's had the world's longest large-market honeymoon with its supposedly ferocious press corps, all of whom have basically taken him at his word every step of the way. There's probably no hot seat for Sandy even if it's another 74-win snooze to the finish and, because this is a long-term project -- with pitching just over the horizon and who-knows-what with the budget -- he and his brain trust deserve a decent-sized benefit of the doubt. But a diligent beat reporter implying that the small improvements you might expect from a bunch of front office whiz-bangs (bullpen, bench, resolution at first and short) have been slow in coming is a perfectly legitimate observation. On the loosely paralleling Cashen Calendar, this season looms as the modern 1983, Year IV of the regime brought in to fix things. We know with hindsight that was the bottoming out moment -- 6-15 out of the gate; 37-65 well after Straw was promoted and Hernandez was acquired -- of the endless darkness. But light flickered in August and September (31-29) and we know what happened next. So let's see a little Art Howe action by the season's final third, so to speak. Let's light up the room with a little more than promises.

Frayed Knot Apr 08 2014 09:03 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I don't believe Sandy had any power or input in the decision not to pursue Reyes.

Nymr83 Apr 08 2014 12:12 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't believe Sandy had any power or input in the decision not to pursue Reyes. Reyes is on the DL again.he played 93 games last year. this contract could still easily turn into the disaster that many predicted, so i dont know why anyone wants to criticize sandy for not signing it.

Edgy MD Apr 08 2014 12:16 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

He didn't break any teams, but he and his contract have been a part of two teams that have broken since it was signed.

Ceetar Apr 08 2014 12:17 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Nymr83 wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: I don't believe Sandy had any power or input in the decision not to pursue Reyes. Reyes is on the DL again.he played 93 games last year. this contract could still easily turn into the disaster that many predicted, so i dont know why anyone wants to criticize sandy for not signing it. We're not necessarily criticizing him for not giving him the Marlins deal or topping that, but a the line SS over the next 4-5 years would be an asset. A risky one, yes, but everyone's at risk of injury. Sure, he happens to be on the DL this year and was hurt last year. That's what the risk is/was. Doesn't mean It wouldn't have been a good gamble. Especially at a more team-friendly contract after 2010.

Edgy MD Apr 08 2014 12:23 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

That's some hard-to-corral logic. Not saying you're wrong. But what outcome exactly would then vindicate Alderson?

Frayed Knot Apr 08 2014 12:24 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Nymr83 wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: I don't believe Sandy had any power or input in the decision not to pursue Reyes. Reyes is on the DL again.he played 93 games last year. this contract could still easily turn into the disaster that many predicted, so i dont know why anyone wants to criticize sandy for not signing it. Whether the non-signing was a good move or not was debatable then and probably still is so now. My point is that I don't believe Sandy had choice in the matter and therefore his "decision" to not sign him, coming as it did at the nadir of the problems caused by the Madoff mess, was made in advance for him by the money men.

Ashie62 Apr 08 2014 04:55 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I doubt it was Sandy's decision regarding Reyes... We really don't know how much leeway he has and have had from Fred & Jeff so I'll give Sandy a B+ to date... I do have a concern that failing to address SS, the Bullpen and a better backup C to back up the kid may hurt from time... Regarding Rubin.. well, we all looked at it anyway... His best value to me is posting pre-game lineups... I believe most Met fans would get a fairer read on the team reading this board than any beat guy..

Zvon Apr 08 2014 05:15 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I agree on B+. And he will have the reigns for a few more years before there's any chance of him getting fired.

Edgy MD Apr 08 2014 07:31 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

A B+ is nothing to sneeze at. It may well get him into the top three GMs in the history of the team if he disappeared tomorrow.

Ashie62 Apr 09 2014 12:30 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I don't see him getting fired by the Mets at all... I've gone with the idea that Sandy might retire after his work with the Mets is done. I wonder if there is a scenario where he takes over for Selig as commish...

Centerfield Apr 09 2014 07:32 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

To be clear here, my criticism is not that Sandy didn't re-sign Jose when he was a free-agent and getting crazy offers from the Marlins (2011). My criticism is that he did not even make an attempt to sign Jose to an extension the year before, when Reyes expressed an interest in negotiations, and when he was coming off of a down year (2010). There was a chance even a four year extension would have gotten it done then. Now, many have speculated that Sandy Alderson didn't have the authority to engage in those negotiations. And that may be true, but we have no way of knowing that. And I don't think any reporter can make that assumption, so this criticism of Alderson is warranted and fair. He is, after all, the GM. And in the absence of other proof, this responsibility lies with him. Personally, I believe his hands were probably tied as well. But if that's the case, I'm disappointed that he was not able to sit down with the Wilpons and say "Look guys, I know you're strapped, but let me give him a modest bump now, and we can avoid having to bid like crazy next year. If we lose him, not only will we lose an iconic player, but we'll have a giant gaping hole at SS for the foreseeable future." And for what it's worth, I am not saying he should be fired. He has made some great moves (Beltran trade, Dickey trade, even not underselling on Ike) and I can't think of a better person to be guiding this team right now, but the man is not above criticism. Sure, he has limited resources, but he has still had four straight losing seasons. Oakland still has a lower payroll and won 96 games last year. And Greg is right about the longest honeymoon ever. When he was hired, did anyone here think "Awesome! We're only going to suck for another five years, then after that we'll be right back in it!"

Ceetar Apr 09 2014 07:44 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Centerfield wrote: And Greg is right about the longest honeymoon ever. When he was hired, did anyone here think "Awesome! We're only going to suck for another five years, then after that we'll be right back in it!" When he was hired, 99% of us hadn't heard of Bernie Madoff. I think the biggest thing now is there is basically no Minaya money on the books besides some arb guys. I think they owe a little to Bay but that's based on a buyout clause that Alderson negotiated. So he got to this point, with lots of planning and preparation. Yes, revenue is likely way down from the 2010 numbers he was likely shown when he signed and part of that may be an inability to spend to keep fans coming, but he presided over that. I'm still happy he's our GM and what not, and I like the team this year, but I expect more from the team this year than it's likely to provide and that's on him.

Centerfield Apr 09 2014 07:48 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

The Madoff story broke in December 2008. Alderson was hired after the 2010 season. Everyone here knew the name Bernie Madoff.

Centerfield Apr 09 2014 07:50 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Ceetar wrote: I think the biggest thing now is there is basically no Minaya money on the books besides some arb guys. I think they owe a little to Bay but that's based on a buyout clause that Alderson negotiated. So he got to this point, with lots of planning and preparation. Yes, revenue is likely way down from the 2010 numbers he was likely shown when he signed and part of that may be an inability to spend to keep fans coming, but he presided over that. This is silly. If they had hired me as GM, there would be no Minaya money on the books. This is not a feat by any stretch of the imagination.

Ceetar Apr 09 2014 07:53 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Centerfield wrote: Ceetar wrote: I think the biggest thing now is there is basically no Minaya money on the books besides some arb guys. I think they owe a little to Bay but that's based on a buyout clause that Alderson negotiated. So he got to this point, with lots of planning and preparation. Yes, revenue is likely way down from the 2010 numbers he was likely shown when he signed and part of that may be an inability to spend to keep fans coming, but he presided over that. This is silly. If they had hired me as GM, there would be no Minaya money on the books. This is not a feat by any stretch of the imagination. No, it's not a feat. my point is simply that the roster construction is his. the Mets/Madoff connection didn't really leak until after. At least, the extent of their losses and that they were going to be involved in the lawsuit. Perhaps they disclosed that to Sandy before hand. Perhaps not.

Vic Sage Apr 09 2014 08:01 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Now, many have speculated that Sandy Alderson didn't have the authority to engage in those negotiations. And that may be true, but we have no way of knowing that. And I don't think any reporter can make that assumption, so this criticism of Alderson is warranted and fair. He is, after all, the GM. And in the absence of other proof, this responsibility lies with him. As CF knows, as a fellow barrister, there is a doctrine in the law called Res Ipsa Loquitor... the thing speaks for itself (23 years after law school, it's probably the only thing i still remember). Speaking of which... if a franchise owner loses his fortune in a pyramid scheme, going into hock to hold onto the team, selling off chunks of it and mortgaging its other assets just to maintain cash flow, making deals with banks to cap expenditures, and if that team's payroll has concurrently dwindled to mid-market proportions, and the owners bring in a guy whose famous for making teams competitive on a small budget, then yeah, i think the thing speaks for itself, with regard to how much leeway Alderson has in making ANY decisions that increase payroll (i.e., virtually none). Particularly at the time of the Reyes situation, when the `Pons were still under the cloud of a lawsuit of potentially cataclysmic proportions. So Sandy gets a pass from me until its clear that the team is either sold or starts demonstrating a willingness to use the resources that should be available to a team in the biggest market in America. Is he beyond criticism? Of course not, but that's a far cry from implying (as Rubin does) that Sandy should be on the hot seat, because "smart people" know whose fault this really is. Sandy is obviously a smart guy with a track record of success who has already made this team better and has given this franchise more long term hope than it had when he showed up. NYMR83: Adam Rubin needs to shut up, 4 years isnt enough time to turn around a trainwreck of a minor league system... anyone he drafted is only first hitting the upper levels of the minors now! I havent seen any other GMs go out and acquire Zach Wheeler, Noah Syndergaard and Travis d'Arnaud for a 36 year old pitcher who just had his career year and a 3-month Beltran rental. Alderson is doing a great job. Fire Rubin. and fuck the traditional media and their sense of entitlement. if "Mom's Basement Press Association" is actually writing quality stories then they are just as deserving of a seat at the press table as he is. In all the years we've all been here (or its predecessor boards), I don't think I've ever written this word regarding a post from NYMR83, but here it is: "ditto".

Centerfield Apr 09 2014 08:02 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: I think the biggest thing now is there is basically no Minaya money on the books besides some arb guys. I think they owe a little to Bay but that's based on a buyout clause that Alderson negotiated. So he got to this point, with lots of planning and preparation. Yes, revenue is likely way down from the 2010 numbers he was likely shown when he signed and part of that may be an inability to spend to keep fans coming, but he presided over that. This is silly. If they had hired me as GM, there would be no Minaya money on the books. This is not a feat by any stretch of the imagination. No, it's not a feat. my point is simply that the roster construction is his. the Mets/Madoff connection didn't really leak until after. At least, the extent of their losses and that they were going to be involved in the lawsuit. Perhaps they disclosed that to Sandy before hand. Perhaps not. Yes. It wasn't until after. Two days after. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

Gwreck Apr 09 2014 08:16 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Ceetar wrote: the Mets/Madoff connection didn't really leak until after. At least, the extent of their losses and that they were going to be involved in the lawsuit. Perhaps they disclosed that to Sandy before hand. Perhaps not. No. This is factually inaccurate. The Madoff issue and that it would affect the Mets substantially was well known far before Sandy was hired. Dave Howard was arguing with Erin Arvelund about whether the Mets would have to sell the team on television in August 2009. Alderson was hired after the 2010 season

Ceetar Apr 09 2014 08:17 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

"the extent of their losses and the lawsuit" Everyone's going to confirmation bias this to hell anyway, but were assets frozen at that point? were they under litigation where numbers were mentioned to be as high as a billion? Ultimately they ended up losing, to them, a trivial amount in the law suit and there were even various reports that they ultimately made money with Madoff accounts. It's all murky financial stuff that we'll never see. Nor will Sandy Alderson. Maybe he was not permitted to extend Reyes at that point, or raise payroll above revenue (depending how you calculate revenue), but we're beyond that now. The roster is his. There's a lot you can do with 90+ million, even if there are owner-imposed caps. Arguing about the owners and "this is New York, we're special!" stuff is irrelevant. They're not going anywhere. Whatever the payroll limitations are that's his job to deal with. This is one of 30 MLB baseball teams, Sandy Alderson is the GM, and his job is to build a winning club. So far, as bright as the future appears when you squint at it from here, he hasn't done that.

Edgy MD Apr 09 2014 08:37 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Erin Arvelund!

Centerfield Apr 09 2014 08:38 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

It's very difficult to discuss things with you. When we started I thought we had opposing views. But by the end of your post, it seems like you're backing my position. Did I win the debate?

metsmarathon Apr 09 2014 09:18 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

i think he's done reasonably well to put together a team that appears to have a bright future (though it was brighter before harvey went all tommy john) without making any really bad moves that threaten to hamstring hte team for years to come. i think hte biggest complaints for this season are hat the mets failed to spend money for hte sake of spending money. and that's really what signing stephen drew would be, plus a draft pick. the players i would have liked to see hte mets get were players that went elsewhere for more money than i would have liked to see them signed for. notably ellsbury and choo. i think that his extended honeymoon comes in large part from the realization that he ahd two very long shadows from which to come out from - minaya's payroll and the wilpons finances. and he's still not all hte way clear of hte latter. he has made, for the most part, very astute trades and signings. i think a B+ grade is very fair. it certainly has hte potential to go up from there.

Edgy MD Apr 09 2014 09:28 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

As far as I'm concerned, he's welcome to a 10-year honeymoon. He could have done better in his managerial choice. But he could have done far worse.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 09 2014 09:52 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Edgy MD wrote: He could have done better in his managerial choice. But he could have done far worse. I agree with that. Terry is uninspiring, but not awful.

Frayed Knot Apr 09 2014 10:02 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I think it's pretty clear that Alderson was hired [u:1i0cx1hn]because of the Madoff mess[/u:1i0cx1hn] and certainly not despite it or for reasons unconnected to it.

Nymr83 Apr 09 2014 10:09 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Frayed Knot wrote: I think it's pretty clear that Alderson was hired because of the Madoff mess and certainly not despite it or for reasons unconnected to it. I thought he was appointed pretty much with "Selig's Stamp of Approval" to sort out the mess

Edgy MD Apr 09 2014 10:16 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

It was fun to watch them go through a search and interview process when everybody and his sister knew that if Alderson was in the application pool, Anderson was going to get the job. Does anybody even remember who the other candidates were? It was like "Get me three other candidates, none of them with experience in the big chair PLEASE, and make sure, you know, one of them is a minority." I was just focused on them getting the process over with quickly so they could get started on cleaning up the mess.

Ceetar Apr 09 2014 11:21 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Centerfield wrote: It's very difficult to discuss things with you. When we started I thought we had opposing views. But by the end of your post, it seems like you're backing my position. Did I win the debate? No, I was always more or less agreeing with you, just branching out a little. I thought we were discussing Alderson's job, and were mostly in agreement on something along the lines of B+. I don't buy into the narrative that he was MLB appointed and his main focus was always just to 'fix' the team. That's too 9-11 Truthie for me. Besides, then he's done. This year revenue will probably surpass, or at least be within the ballpark, of payroll. So is it time to move on? The Mets are more or less at the break-even point, again depending on your accounting, and have very little money coming off the books. This is where, imo, the jury is still out on the job he's done. When is he going to step up and commit? When Is he going to stop waffling on player contracts and say "I NEED this guy to round out my team" and make it happen?

Edgy MD Apr 09 2014 11:27 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I think he's more or less said he's done. He's said he expects to do about two more seasons, hopefully to enjoy some of the fruit of what he's planted. Here's hoping his team stays mostly in place to carry on his work.

Ceetar Apr 09 2014 11:45 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Edgy MD wrote: I think he's more or less said he's done. He's said he expects to do about two more seasons, hopefully to enjoy some of the fruit of what he's planted. Here's hoping his team stays mostly in place to carry on his work. done as in "mission accomplished" not done as in "ready to retire". This team isn't likely a perennial contender as currently constructed and if he's not aiming to make it such he shouldn't be here two more years.

Edgy MD Apr 09 2014 12:12 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Done as in, "I'm winding down my tenure with this team."

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 12 2014 07:10 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Adam Rubin, in case you haven't noticed. Was pissed at Sandy for not answering questions yesterday. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... he-manager NEW YORK -- Terry Collins got beat up on Twitter this weekend for in-game maneuvering that included Chris Young sacrifice bunting, Dillon Gee departing at 81 pitches and, well, just about everything else. Even his job security began to be questioned. The bottom line, though: Jabs at Collins, who has somehow kept his teams afloat and playing hard despite inferior talent, are misdirected. That criticism instead ought to be directed at general manager Sandy Alderson. Alderson is now in his fourth season as Mets GM. And he appears headed for his fourth straight losing season, although Sunday’s 5-4, 11-inning, comeback win against the Philadelphia Phillies demonstrated the Mets (17-19) continue to have fight in them. This regime has been peddling the future for four years now. And at some point they might actually deliver. If Noah Syndergaard emerges as a frontline starter, Zack Wheeler truly blossoms and Matt Harvey returns clicking on all cylinders next season, that triumvirate might lead the Mets to legitimate contention in 2016, 2017 and beyond. Of course, that presumes the Mets can find some bats. And it also presumes other teams aren’t better at building through young talent than the Mets. The Miami Marlins have the pitching too, headlined by Jose Fernandez, and they have the young outfield bats the Mets lack -- including Giancarlo Stanton, Marcell Ozuna and Christian Yelich. Perhaps the Mets can swing a trade for a bat using excess pitching, but it is not here now. If, when Alderson interviewed with the Wilpons after Omar Minaya was ousted at the end of the 2010 season, Alderson had promised his first winning season would come six years down the road, do you think he would have been hired? There ought to have been more competitiveness, at least by now, while fans await the future faces of the organization. And that requires better identification of talent by the front office. Look, there is no indication Alderson is in any danger of losing his job. Yes, he is in the final season of his original four-year deal, which is estimated to annually pay him $2.5 million. And, yes, his team option for 2015 has not yet been picked up -- at least not picked up and publicly acknowledged. Still, the Wilpons have gone so far down the road with Alderson that even if the timeline to win is a lot longer than they expected, it is likely they ride it out to see where it leads rather than bail now and start with a new GM and new plan that could elongate the process. The painfully slow rebuilding, which eats at the fans, has to gnaw at the Wilpons, too, because their financial lifeblood is derived from revenue from attendance. I’ve covered this team for a dozen seasons as the beat writer, and I have never seen this level of combined anger, distrust, frustration and dismay directed collectively at the organization by its fans. By now, even if the Mets weren’t challenging the Washington Nationals and Atlanta Braves for the division, there ought to have been positive energy in the ballpark, like there was in 2005 with the “New Mets” -- a palpable feeling something bigger was looming. There is no Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran now because the Mets do not throw around those types of dollars anymore. And the frustration is partly a function of the payroll that undoubtedly has handcuffed Alderson. Yet the frustration also is a result of an I’m-smarter-than-you smugness that fans perceive is coming from the front office, and which seems so out of place given its actual accomplishments beyond auctioning off Beltran and R.A. Dickey. Forget about the Mets’ hitting approach, which you can tell by Keith Hernandez’s repeated, audible, on-air sighs is not exactly the route the ’86 Mets took to the organization’s last championship. Alderson’s “Moneyball” pedigree was supposed to mean the organization could identify low-cost players to keep the team competitive in the years until the farm system really started spitting out players. Instead, with rare exceptions such as LaTroy Hawkins, there have been swings and misses and more swings and misses, particularly in the bullpen. To name a few: D.J. Carrasco, Frank Francisco, Ramon Ramirez (in a trade for Angel Pagan), Scott Atchison, Brandon Lyon and now Jose Valverde. The Mets valued Kyle Farnsworth so little at the end of spring training that they released him rather than pay $100,000 to send to the minors. How he became the closer speaks to the negligence in failing to have an adequate backup plan for Bobby Parnell. Parnell was no guarantee to be OK as he returned from surgery to repair a herniated disk in his neck that cost him the final two months of last season. And there was no apparent safety net in place, with the exception of a misguided hope that Valverde would be better than he was last season, when he was released from Triple-A by the Detroit Tigers. The Mets seem to always need to win the trade, or there is inaction. Did they really need to still evaluate Ike Davis versus Lucas Duda in spring training after seeing them for the three previous years? When the Mets indicated they were not pursuing Jose Abreu during the offseason because they already had three first basemen, how can you have full faith in their evaluation skills? Wasn’t it entirely predictable how Ruben Tejada would work out at shortstop? So the Mets enter the Subway Series at 17-19, still undoubtedly trying to sell to "True New Yorkers" that 90 wins is possible and that they ought to come to the ballpark and support the team. There may come a day in the next few seasons that the Mets realize that 90-win goal. And then people might praise Alderson for leaving the organization in such good shape. But if the price was, say, six losing seasons under his watch first -- plus the two from Minaya that preceded it -- was that really great front-office work? Or if you fail enough seasons, is it simply inevitable that at some point you’ll accrue enough young talent to be competitive again?

Ceetar May 12 2014 07:11 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Well of course. When someone gets a job over you you're always critical.

Edgy MD May 12 2014 07:13 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

That was a jaw-dropping column to read this morning.

metirish May 12 2014 07:19 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Not much for me to pick at except this There is no Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran now because the Mets do not throw around those types of dollars anymore. Granderson......

SteveJRogers May 12 2014 07:23 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

metirish wrote: Not much for me to pick at except this There is no Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran now because the Mets do not throw around those types of dollars anymore. Granderson...... And in a lot of ways, UNLIKE Martinez and Beltran, the move could be seen as a move done solely to say "SEE! We are acting like a big market franchise!" and very much not a move that should have been made.

Ceetar May 12 2014 07:59 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

SteveJRogers wrote: metirish wrote: Not much for me to pick at except this There is no Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran now because the Mets do not throw around those types of dollars anymore. Granderson...... And in a lot of ways, UNLIKE Martinez and Beltran, the move could be seen as a move done solely to say "SEE! We are acting like a big market franchise!" and very much not a move that should have been made. Yes, but any move that's not signing a future HOFer can be seen as such. You can see the arguments on both sides with Granderson and most people tend to agree with the one that fits their notions of how the Mets are run.

metirish May 12 2014 08:12 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Well, IIRC the courting and then signing of Pedro was as much about "hey look at us, we can attract the big name players" as it was about getting a great pitcher(on the downslide), that signing then helped attract the other players.....that is what was peddled anyway.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 12 2014 08:17 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I don't understand Rogers comment even a little. If the Mets wanted to "make a statement" about their willingness to pay full retail for brand name players there were better ways of doing that than signing Granderson. The Rubin column has me all pissed off. He's mad about the lack of access, and obviously sides with the "fans" who insulted by a "I'm-smarter-than-you" attitude. Post's Kevin Kernan also butthurt. All right, the Mets have their emotional opening to get the Subway Series rolling and their season finally moving in the right direction. It’s time to put up or shut up, starting with general manager Sandy Alderson. Silent Sandy declined multiple media requests Sunday to explain what is going on with his team following the Mother’s Day Miracle win over the Phillies, a 5-4, 11-inning victory at Citi Field that included a three-run ninth-inning to tie the game and Ruben Tejada’s walkoff single against a depleted Phillies bullpen that did not have closer Jonathan Papelbon. Now it will be four straight against the Yankees, starting Monday night at Yankee Stadium. Remember, the Mets swept the Subway Series last year. Bartolo Colon will go against Hiroki Kuroda to start. “The energy in the Subway Series is an animal of its own,’’ manager Terry Collins said. “But to go in on a positive note is big, especially to get us off what’s happened here in the last six days. We were a ground ball or a base hit away of winning four of those six, so to get us going again was big. Our guys relish the challenge in front of them.’’ “We just needed a win,’’ admitted Daniel Murphy, who hit a monster two-run home run in the ninth to bring the Mets within one. Then Chris Young ended an 0-for-18 streak with a double and wound up scoring the tying run on a ground out by Juan Lagares. That is not to be confused with Tejada’s 0-for-17 streak, snapped earlier in the game. Tejada was playing because Wilmer Flores is sick. Over the last five games, the Mets’ five through nine hitters were batting .109. An emotionally drained Collins admitted he had to “think outside the box’’ to get the offense going after losing five straight and eight of nine. That included giving Anthony Recker the green light on a 3-0 pitch, which is frowned upon in Alderson’s Bases Per Out World. “You can call it desperation,’’ Collins said of his moves. “I’d rather have it a little more positive than standing on the edge of the cliff.’’ The Mets still are not saying if Jenrry Mejia will be a closer or a Wednesday starter for the Subway Series, but Collins was tremendously encouraged by Jeurys Familia’s big performance Sunday, 1 ²/? innings of hitless relief, and said Familia is moving closer to getting the closer’s role. In all things Mets, though, the manager has to check with the GM, who makes those final decisions. The two men met after the game to talk over plans, but Sir Sandy, through a spokesperson, declined to meet with the media. The 17-19 Mets need to have Eric Young Jr. in the leadoff role because of the energy he brings to that spot in the moribund lineup. They are 2-8 when he does not start. Young picked up three hits and scored two runs on Sunday. “This win may really be the win that gets us going,’’ Collins said. The win was a big win for Collins, who cannot afford to have too many losing streaks. General managers don’t fire themselves, they fire managers. The Mets are short in the bullpen and do not have enough hitting, but the bottom line is Alderson essentially put Collins on notice with the challenge the Mets are a 90-win team. What was the energy level in the dugout when Tejada got his winning single against Jeff Manship? “Everybody left, the coaching staff was about the only guys left out there,’’ Collins said with a laugh. As for calling up some young, fresh arms, Collins deferred to his GM, but said: “I think it’s going to be pretty exciting when they get here. We’ve seen what it has done in Miami. we’ve seen what it has done in Pittsburgh, in St. Louis, but it’s got to be the right time, and I think that is what Sandy is real good at, having a feel for what is the right time.’’ There’s no time to get rolling like Subway Series time.

Ceetar May 12 2014 08:20 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

ouch ouch ouch. That Kernan article hurt. I couldn't finish. All I got from that is "I was going to write up Sandy Alderson's thoughts but he didn't speak to the media today so I'm just going to pretend I know his opinions on things and write it anyway."

Mets Guy in Michigan May 12 2014 08:30 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

"Sir Sandy?"

Ceetar May 12 2014 08:32 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

metsguyinmichigan wrote: "Sir Sandy?" As in "The high and mighty thinks he's above us and can't be bothered to talk to the serfs." borderline unprofessional.

Edgy MD May 12 2014 08:51 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

"Thinks he's smarter than everybody" is what you write about somebody you resent because you know he's smarter than you. How petty.

Frayed Knot May 12 2014 09:59 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

The line about swinging on 3-0 pitches being "frowned upon in Alderson’s Bases Per Out World" comes off a just another case of a writer treating mis-interpreting the strategy, which itself is often lumped in under the "Moneyball" label, to be about maximizing walks to the exclusion of just about everything else. Rubin touches on the same thing with his comments about Keith not approving of the approach.

Edgy MD May 12 2014 10:10 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I’ve covered this team for a dozen seasons as the beat writer, and I have never seen this level of combined anger, distrust, frustration and dismay directed collectively at the organization by its fans. We need an index on this sort of thing. The "worst ever" statements are used too liberally, often with an intention of creating the atmosphere one purports to describe.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 12 2014 10:11 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Yeah the Keith thing browns my biscuits too, because if you're lazy enough you'll forget that Cashen hadn't produced a winner, much less Keith Hernandez (for another month and a half), when lined up side by side with Alderson's turnaround. Although, Strawberry was about to make his debut, nobody'd even heard of Dwight Gooden, but the story of the year was what a POS Foster was turning out to be. One thing the press hasn't looked into enough from my perspective was verifying the accuracy of Hudgens' remark that "all the good teams are doing this" from the DiComo article that sort of revealed this philosophy.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 12 2014 10:15 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Edgy MD wrote: I’ve covered this team for a dozen seasons as the beat writer, and I have never seen this level of combined anger, distrust, frustration and dismay directed collectively at the organization by its fans. We need an index on this sort of thing. The "worst ever" statements are used too liberally, often with an intention of creating the atmosphere one purports to describe. Oh, I think the fan dismay thing is probably true (easier than ever to express displeasure thru social media) though it has less to do with Alderson specifically than it does with the events that preceded him and defined his term.

SteveJRogers May 12 2014 10:17 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah the Keith thing browns my biscuits too, because if you're lazy enough you'll forget that Cashen hadn't produced a winner, much less Keith Hernandez (for another month and a half), when lined up side by side with Alderson's turnaround. Although, Strawberry was about to make his debut, nobody'd even heard of Dwight Gooden, but the story of the year was what a POS Foster was turning out to be. One thing the press hasn't looked into enough from my perspective was verifying the accuracy of Hudgens' remark that "all the good teams are doing this" from the DiComo article that sort of revealed this philosophy. Of course that was under the stewardship, 100% of Nelson Doubleday, who wanted a winner, and not the Wilpons...or so the Saint Nelson revisionists would want you to believe! ;)

Ceetar May 12 2014 10:22 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Frayed Knot wrote: The line about swinging on 3-0 pitches being "frowned upon in Alderson’s Bases Per Out World" comes off a just another case of a writer treating mis-interpreting the strategy, which itself is often lumped in under the "Moneyball" label, to be about maximizing walks to the exclusion of just about everything else. Rubin touches on the same thing with his comments about Keith not approving of the approach. One of my takeaways from Moneyball is that just because someone is a former player doesn't mean they really have any clue how to build a winner and sometimes just the opposite. It's easy to preach a philosophy when you have/had a talent level that's maybe not present in everyone you're preaching about. Not that i don't value Keith (And moreso Ron)'s opinion on these matters, but there's more than one right way. And on the 3-0 pitch, the Mets philosophy has always been reported as a 'swing at your pitch' type philosophy. Recker got it, swung, and drove it 350 feet. he pulls that just a wee bit more or less and it's a double that can't be reached and a little harder and it's gone. I'll take that swing, on that pitch, in that situation, every single time.

Edgy MD May 12 2014 10:30 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Oh, I think the fan dismay thing is probably true (easier than ever to express displeasure thru social media) though it has less to do with Alderson specifically than it does with the events that preceded him and defined his term. Maybe, but by the same token ("easier to express displeasure thru social media"), then, virtually every team would therefore be absorbing more vitriol than ever before. To some extent, it would appear even before you adjust for a team's current success rate. I've heard such comments often enough, but emotionally, most of us tend to live in the present. This is the guy who broke the Tony Bernazard story, and ended up in the middle of it. That was a pretty diseased little cesspool of fan antipathy going on then. Eleven years ago the Mets were limping home in 2003 with Art Howe and Mike Glavine and Jay Bell. Attendance fell off 17%. It fell off 22% following the second collapse of 2008, despite a new stadium. It's actually modestly rebounded so far this season, relative to the league. Maybe it is true, but a guy reporting that negativity is at an all-time high while projecting his own negativity is not to be trusted. And yeah, making that negativity about Alderson is missing the story almost entirely.

Frayed Knot May 12 2014 10:45 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 12 2014 10:53 AM

Ceetar wrote: The line about swinging on 3-0 pitches being "frowned upon in Alderson’s Bases Per Out World" comes off a just another case of a writer treating mis-interpreting the strategy, which itself is often lumped in under the "Moneyball" label, to be about maximizing walks to the exclusion of just about everything else. Rubin touches on the same thing with his comments about Keith not approving of the approach. One of my takeaways from Moneyball is that just because someone is a former player doesn't mean they really have any clue how to build a winner and sometimes just the opposite. It's easy to preach a philosophy when you have/had a talent level that's maybe not present in everyone you're preaching about. Not that i don't value Keith (And moreso Ron)'s opinion on these matters, but there's more than one right way. And on the 3-0 pitch, the Mets philosophy has always been reported as a 'swing at your pitch' type philosophy. Recker got it, swung, and drove it 350 feet. he pulls that just a wee bit more or less and it's a double that can't be reached and a little harder and it's gone. I'll take that swing, on that pitch, in that situation, every single time. Your last paragraph begins to get at the problem. I don't see this as a Keith is wrong kind of thing or even Keith disagreeing with Alderson et al. To me it's just another case of media people STILL misunderstanding, or at the very least, still over-simplifying, anything that they can file under the general heading of Moneyball. Kernan even uses Sandy's moniker of 'Bases per out' to sum up the philosophy but then goes on to imply that NYM mgmt would rather have the walk there. But if getting on via a walk is better than an out you know what gives you an even better bases/out ratio than a walk? - a double in the gap, that's what! Recker, by doing what you said and what Keith preaches (and Ralph for all these years) which is get a good/predictable pitch and attack it, was trying to do just that. "Plate discipline" isn't merely seeing as many pitches as possible, sometimes it's jumping on a 2-0 pitch and smacking the snot out of it and I don't think there's anything in the Alderson regime that would disagree with any of that. This thinking that Keith--who walked more than just about all his contemporaries--would somehow raise a dissent with any of this is, again, I think a misinterpretation by mediots who think it's all about walks. I expect that from Francesa and his callers, I hope for better from everyday guys. * side note: in the Oakland/Nats game yesterday Derek Norris (like Recker a low-BA/decent power part-time catcher) hit two 3R HRs off Gio Gonzalez in the first two innings. BOTH HRs were on 3-0 counts.

Edgy MD May 12 2014 10:52 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Nobody was more in favor of taking 3-0 than Ralph. It wasn't Moneyball with him, of course. He just figured that he's going to see the same pitch twice, so he might as well (a) force the pitcher to throw it over the plate twice, and (b) get a good look at it the first time before cutting loose the second.

Frayed Knot May 12 2014 11:01 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Well, you could argue that, of all counts, 3-0 is a special case. It might also be that pitchers are less predictable now than in Ralph's day. Pitch data doesn't exist prior to 1988 so we've got no access to check Ralph's memory and only to the tail end of Keith's career. Keith = 2/3 on 3-0 pitches with a single + HR My point remains that I think these writers are taking the view that because Moneyball favored high walks in addition to other skills that it somehow favors walks instead of them.

Edgy MD May 12 2014 11:04 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Yeah, I'm just offering the philosophy he espoused in the booth. For all I know, he swung like a maniac on 3-0 pitches.

metirish May 12 2014 11:08 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I do think EYJ needs to start everyday......numbers are one thing but he just adds something to the team...

Benjamin Grimm May 12 2014 11:19 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

At whose expense, though? Would you sit Granderson, Chris Young, or Lagares?

Edgy MD May 12 2014 11:26 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Each of 'em getting three days in four until one of them inevitably gets hurt or plays himself out of the lineup works fine for me. Giving EY a start at second against an upcoming lefty might be fun too!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 12 2014 11:43 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Edgy MD wrote: I’ve covered this team for a dozen seasons as the beat writer, and I have never seen this level of combined anger, distrust, frustration and dismay directed collectively at the organization by its fans. We need an index on this sort of thing. The "worst ever" statements are used too liberally, often with an intention of creating the atmosphere one purports to describe. No, you see, trust me, he knows market research almost innately. He went to Wharton, you see. (Another reason Sir Sandy shouldn't think he's going to fall for this gradual-improvement-in-virtually-every-area-of-organizational-performance business and let him off the hook for standing us up, GODDAMMIT.) What a bitchy little bitchfest we've got here. I mean, dude's a very, very good beat reporter. But as an analyst/editorialist, Rubin continues to show he's a great beat reporter.

metirish May 12 2014 11:45 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Obviously he liked it better when the GM would pose for the cover of his book.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 12 2014 11:46 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I really wish we could start him at short. Second is at least a possibility with him, but that overlooks that Muffy's one of the only guys having a decent year in the whole lineup. Kernan is building a whole brand around being the media guy with the first and strongest anti-Met-hitting-philosophy stance. He and Rubin have both gone hard after Alderson and appear to save special criticism for Chris Young, whom they see as a particular example of the Sandiness of this team. Kevin Kernan ?@WheresKernan 22h That Bases Per Out statistic Sandy concocted is not working out too well for his 2 big FA signings Curtis Granderson and Chris Young Kevin Kernan ?@WheresKernan May 7 I was challenging #Mets offensive philosophy a month ago and was challenged by many. I saw this coming. #HuntingStrikes

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 12 2014 11:50 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

#JustifyYourExistence #BecauseGeneralInsightOrEntertainmentValueAintIt

Ceetar May 12 2014 12:33 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I really wish we could start him at short. Second is at least a possibility with him, but that overlooks that Muffy's one of the only guys having a decent year in the whole lineup. Duda. Lagares. (And Wright's year is still decent)

Ceetar May 12 2014 12:33 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

can I go off on him? I so want to go off on him.

Frayed Knot May 12 2014 12:39 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

My take on Granderson + CYoung: Hitting .200 with lots of strikeouts and a combined HR total that can be counted on one hand screws up ALL hitting philosophies! IOW -- Let's not pretend that Sandy thought he was going to get THIS from those two and feel vindicated. Nor should one who was in opposition be crowing about victory because these are the early May totals.

Edgy MD May 12 2014 12:51 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

It was more than clear that this philosophy was built to instill in the minor league players, and reinforced with bonuses. You're not even allowed to tie bonuses to performance under big league contracts. And clearly Granderson, at least, would be motivated to succeed on any terms he can, because he's already secured his payday for the upcoming seasons.

batmagadanleadoff May 12 2014 01:01 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I don't get this "timeline" thing. I don't even know for sure, where it came from. But fans and the media are judging the Mets as if it's a train running on a reliable schedule. "The Mets are on a timeline". "This year, they'll win half their games". "Next year they'll win 85 games." "Then they'll win the next three World Series". Expectations are unreasonable and border on the childish. There aren't any guarantees and there are 29 other teams trying, or hoping, to do the exact same thing that Mets fans want their Mets to do. Alderson inherited a team that would struggle to beat the de Roulet Mets with any consistency. And now they're broke and deep in the middle of a financial crisis. And people still hold the Mets to this "timeline" where they're supposed to challenge for the pennant with retreads, no money and bullshitting owners who still publicly deny their state of poverty. How is this supposed to be Alderson's fault?

Ashie62 May 12 2014 01:08 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

It has been a long long time since the Mets were good and its easy to get impatient. Lets see where they are at the break ok?

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 12 2014 01:40 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I don't get this "timeline" thing. I don't even know for sure, where it came from. But fans and the media are judging the Mets as if it's a train running on a reliable schedule. "The Mets are on a timeline". "This year, they'll win half their games". "Next year they'll win 85 games." "Then they'll win the next three World Series". Expectations are unreasonable and border on the childish. There aren't any guarantees and there are 29 other teams trying, or hoping, to do the exact same thing that Mets fans want their Mets to do. Alderson inherited a team that would struggle to beat the de Roulet Mets with any consistency. And now they're broke and deep in the middle of a financial crisis. And people still hold the Mets to this "timeline" where they're supposed to challenge for the pennant with retreads, no money and bullshitting owners who still publicly deny their state of poverty. How is this supposed to be Alderson's fault? Yeah, I think in hindsight you almost have to look at the challenge for Alderson -- build a competitive team at $90 M, starting with one that makes $138 million and happens not to have any prospects on the way -- as something akin to building an expansion team.

batmagadanleadoff May 12 2014 01:43 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: I don't get this "timeline" thing. I don't even know for sure, where it came from. But fans and the media are judging the Mets as if it's a train running on a reliable schedule. "The Mets are on a timeline". "This year, they'll win half their games". "Next year they'll win 85 games." "Then they'll win the next three World Series". Expectations are unreasonable and border on the childish. There aren't any guarantees and there are 29 other teams trying, or hoping, to do the exact same thing that Mets fans want their Mets to do. Alderson inherited a team that would struggle to beat the de Roulet Mets with any consistency. And now they're broke and deep in the middle of a financial crisis. And people still hold the Mets to this "timeline" where they're supposed to challenge for the pennant with retreads, no money and bullshitting owners who still publicly deny their state of poverty. How is this supposed to be Alderson's fault? Yeah, I think in hindsight you almost have to look at the challenge for Alderson -- build a competitive team at $90 M, starting with one that makes $138 million and happens not to have any prospects on the way -- as something akin to building an expansion team. Exactly. But an expansion team under 1962's conditions.

Edgy MD May 12 2014 01:52 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

I'd also add... without a float of dough from the bank or a float of goodwill from the fans. Expansion teams don't start business with loans being called in and fan revolts under way.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 12 2014 04:45 PM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Minus many an instrument of goodwill, too. Terry is many things, e.g., but Casey he ain't.

Edgy MD May 17 2014 09:23 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Mike Vaccaro is lighting Terry and Sandy on fire this today. Perspective, gentlemen.

Ashie62 Jun 08 2014 10:19 AM Re: People Who Hate Sandy Alderson

Bump