Master Index of Archived Threads
Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014
batmagadanleadoff May 21 2014 10:23 AM |
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Palladino: Mets Need New Attitude At Pitcher-Friendly Citi Field
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/05/21/ ... iti-field/
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Ceetar May 21 2014 10:35 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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A brief google couldn't confirm this, but I'm reasonably certain that Babe Ruth NEVER hit a home run to dead center field at Yankee Stadium. I think it was in the "The Year Babe Ruth hit 104 Home Runs"
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batmagadanleadoff May 21 2014 10:42 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
Comparisons between Citi Field and any of the Yankee Stadium configurations are pointless. Citi Field was uniformly deep and cavernous. Today, it's merely less cavernous. It was a dumb, dumb, dumb idea, and the re-sizing project didn't go far enough.
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Edgy MD May 21 2014 10:56 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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I just punched this paragraph in the face. THREE TIMES! Why is it still talking?
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smg58 May 21 2014 10:57 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
Is now a good time to point out that the other team has to hit in the same park that the Mets do when they come here? Or that FanGraphs (you know, the most number-crunchy of the number-cruncher sites) rates CitiField as 103 for favoring home runs since the fences were moved in (100 being average, and above 100 increasing the likelihood of home runs)? Or that the park in Flushing is less of an extreme than the park in the Bronx?
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Ceetar May 21 2014 11:06 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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no. This thread isn't about facts or research. It's not even apparently a thread about an article about facts and research, even though said article drops a 'number crunchers' to try to add weight to it's flimsy argument.
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batmagadanleadoff May 21 2014 11:08 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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How about that?
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Benjamin Grimm May 21 2014 11:08 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Yes, it's more than a little nutty to say that it's impossible for the home team to win in a particular ballpark when it's evidently possible for the visiting team to win in that same park.
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batmagadanleadoff May 21 2014 11:17 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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If the dimensions are extreme, the park could inflict a psychological toll on the players, where they alter their mechanics. Visitors just passing through aren't affected in this manner.
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Frayed Knot May 21 2014 11:30 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
The dimensions are not extreme.
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Edgy MD May 21 2014 11:47 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
I get the idea that it's more than dimensions that are in the Mets' heads these days.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket May 21 2014 11:47 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
I think (but I don't really know) that carry and so forth improves once the weather gets warmer and the humidity increases, which is why you have to view these early-season park reports with suspicion.
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batmagadanleadoff May 21 2014 11:52 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
Oh c'mon. Can't we just blame Jeff Wilpon for everything?
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Centerfield May 22 2014 07:34 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Do you have a link to this? How is that number calculated?
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Ceetar May 22 2014 07:44 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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[url]http://www.fangraphs.com/guts.aspx?type=pf&season=2013&teamid=25 oddly enough, it suppresses singles doubles and triples a wee bit. It's more neutral for home runs for lefties and 105 for righties. Lest we get too worked up about this, remember it's a work in progress. We know that park factors are real, but it's hard to measure precisely how real because the variables are so vast. (Citi Field's new dimensions for example, are only two years which isn't a huge sample)
[url]http://www.fangraphs.com/library/principles/park-factors/ more on the theory behind it's calculation [url]http://gosu02.tripod.com/id103.html
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Centerfield May 22 2014 08:30 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
Thanks Ceetar. That's very helpful.
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Benjamin Grimm May 22 2014 08:35 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
Well, there was Ike Davis in the second half of 2012.
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Centerfield May 22 2014 08:39 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
A parallel to this could be Mike Hampton, who was terrific before and after his time in Colorado. But while he was in Colorado, he was terrible. Many said it wasn't Coor's Field, since he was terrible on the road during those years as well (in one year he was even worse away from Coor's). But the minute he went to Atlanta, he returned to being a pretty good pitcher. There can be many factors, but there is at least the suggestion that his struggles were based on Coor's, and that he was screwed up to the point he took his bad habits on the road with him.
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Centerfield May 22 2014 08:41 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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True. And to put a point to the other side, I have never heard Davis suggest that the Citi dimensions had anything to do with his struggles.
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MFS62 May 22 2014 08:41 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Of course we can. It is implied, if not said, in every post, in every thread, on every topic, in every forum. Later
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Ceetar May 22 2014 08:45 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Marlon Byrd. Well, Bay was a different story and concussions likely helped him to his downfall. David Wright has been great the last two years, if not quite as home-happy. But excepting 2009 he's been on a (pro-rated) 20-25 pace most years. (though 29 in 2010. 12 home, 17 away) Granderson had a bad start, but he's fine. Has 5 home runs over the last 28 days which is a 30ish pace for a season. Ike Davis might just not be that good, but after his bad start in 2011 bounced back to hit 32. Hit only 9 in limited time last year but again he bounced back well in the second half the HR just were doubles but he also admits to a lat injury. It's also April/May And it's been a chilly one and Citi Field is always exceptionally windy early on. So it's premature to worry about power this year imo. Premature to worry about home field advantage in general I think. The data doesn't seem to support it and it feels like a lot of the theories are trying to force a hypothesis. These guys are human, so data will never 100%, or even close to that, report what's going on. Data ignores nagging injuries, hangovers, crappy sleep, headaches, gusts of wind, mental changes in approach to fit a stadium, and all that. Ultimately the data should override that noise, but probability suggests it's less and less likely to do so the smaller a sample you have. Coors Field is the more blatant example of the existence of park factors, but most of the rest of them are more subtle. Take Dodger stadium for example. Pitchers are always (or did always?) rave about the mound there and how it's somehow better. I don't know if anyone's done any real analysis of it, but you wonder if the effect is real, if it's only mental, and if that mental confidence translates like a placebo effect.
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Edgy MD May 22 2014 08:57 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
I am troubled by the park factor and the psychological toll, while not being able to factually establish that either of these things actually exist. But one thing (two actually) those teams had before 2009 that they didn't have going forward is Carlos Delgado and a healthy Carlos Beltran. It could simply be that they've never found the lefthanded lightning to replace those guys.
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Centerfield May 22 2014 09:08 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
And to speak to the original article, that's really dumb.
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Nymr83 May 22 2014 11:08 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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As they learned at the rocket launching pad in the Bronx, simply copying the old park's dimensions doesnt account for wind patterns and stuff, they have the same short porch but its playing even shorter. The Mets need to stop trying to move the walls and start trying to find better players. They could start by finding out if hte young guys in the organization can play instead of giving at bats and innings to the guys they should already know cant.
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Edgy MD May 22 2014 11:12 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
As I said, I'm not sure where that gets us.
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batmagadanleadoff May 22 2014 11:13 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Why not? And park factors also account for what the Mets opponents do at Citi Field and on the road
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Nymr83 May 22 2014 11:17 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Moving fences is going to hurt the pitchers and arguably hurts us more than the opponent at least moving the centerfield wall due to Lagares' range. so unless you're going to move them every season after an exhaustive analysis of the current roster (would mlb allow this even?) i dont see the point. if you're going to move them once and talk about a general philosophy thats another story, but the Mets seem to want to move them not because they want to build a team of groundball pitchers and homerun hitters but because the current team isnt playing well and they are scrambling for an explanation other than the talent level
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batmagadanleadoff May 22 2014 11:19 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Having the two Carloses or not shouldn't affect the park factor. It's not necessarily how many overall HR's or runs or doubles the Mets generate, but the difference between their road and home output (and the difference between the home and road output of the Mets opponents in games against the Mets).
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Edgy MD May 22 2014 11:21 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
I am not claiming they affected the park factor. I am claiming their presence and absence had an effect on the team totals and league-wide rankings based on those totals as cited in the post from Centerfield.
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Edgy MD May 22 2014 11:24 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Listen, in my ideal park, there are no fences at all, just a vast expanse of green stretching as far as the eye can see, interrupted only by the occasional weeping willow, babbling brook, gamboling deer, or grazing bison. Again, I'm not sure which guys you're advocating giving up on.
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batmagadanleadoff May 22 2014 11:26 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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As if pre-humidor Coors wasn't bad enough, Mike Hampton also pitched there during the steroid era. That Coors was a freak show --- a baseball game inside of a pinball machine. There was never, not even close, to another stadium that generated offense like that Coors. (And the current humidor Coors is still the best place to generate offense). Anyway, in Hampton's Coors, pitchers had to throw every pitch as if they were in the late innings of a tied Game Seven of the World Series. Pitchers there could never let down, not even for a single pitch, and couldn't pace themselves. They were mentally, if not physically drained by the middle of the game. I wouldn't question the idea that the pre-humidor Coors fucked with any Rockies pitchers head for a nano-second.
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batmagadanleadoff May 22 2014 11:32 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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The Mets ain't movin' those fences in any more. That costs a lot of money. The Mets have to borrow money from Bud Selig just to pay their phone bill.
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Edgy MD May 22 2014 11:35 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Can you tell why we should draw this conclusion?
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d'Kong76 May 22 2014 06:42 PM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
While I appreciate all the thought and expression that has
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d'Kong76 May 22 2014 07:16 PM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
Justin Turner, feeling no home-team-park anxiety!!
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Edgy MD May 22 2014 07:35 PM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
Who can explain it?
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Frayed Knot May 22 2014 07:37 PM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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It has yet to be established whether or not this is going to be an enchanted evening.
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d'Kong76 May 22 2014 07:41 PM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Well, not sure I subscribe to this.
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Vic Sage May 23 2014 08:10 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
Don't argue with Oscar Hammerstein, sir!
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Ceetar May 23 2014 08:19 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
d'Arnaud said he's aware of the deep spots but tries to put it out of his mind at the plate "just hit it hard" and also that he's happy the park is deep because he's part of the battery and it helps the pitchers.
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MFS62 May 23 2014 08:38 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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IIRC, the last time MLB legislated on ballpark distances, it set the minimums of 330' (or was it 325'?) down the lines and 400' to dead center. As long as the teams adhere to those standards, any changes the home team wants to make to other distances or fence heights seem fair game. I guess you would need to ask for a waiver if you wanted any of those distances to be shorter. Later
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Frayed Knot May 23 2014 09:26 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Yes, MLB put in minimums and then promptly allowed almost every stadium built afterward to ignore them.
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Edgy MD May 23 2014 11:09 AM Re: Citi Field Dimensions Thread - 2014 |
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Responding to a astandard question asked on all concussion tests.
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