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RIP Frank Cashen

G-Fafif Jun 30 2014 12:33 PM

Rubin just tweeted passing of 1986 architect, age 91.

Zvon Jun 30 2014 12:37 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Oh wow. Shit. He brought (and bought) us many good times. RIP Mr Cashen.

Edgy MD Jun 30 2014 12:52 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Wearing a bowtie to the office tomorrow in his honor.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2014 01:16 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

He was on such a roll in the early going it seemed like he was incapable of making a move that didn't pan out. Forget the Hernandez trade. Or the Carter trade. He made the Fernandez trade. Holy shit. Moreover, and maybe this is just misty colored memories of the way we were, but it seemed to me he ran the club in a manner that befitted the kind of club he wanted it to be: It was first class all the way. Shit he did never made you wonder whether there was some stealth (or not so stealth) efficiency program behind it all (or a directive from the commissioners office, or a need to divert potential revenue going to the Yankees, or anything else): Everyone pulled on the rope the same way because it was clear the organization knew what it wanted. It really was baseball as it ought to have been.

RealityChuck Jun 30 2014 01:42 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Some reporter said that Cashin had a chart that showed his plans for who would be playing what position for the next five years. Harder to do these days, where you don't know what free agency will do, but he always had someone coming up from the minors ready to replace anyone who left.

Edgy MD Jun 30 2014 01:43 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

There was also, like, the teambuidling we didn't see from 1980-1983, as much as what we saw from 1984-1986. Gooden, for instance, was selected over a handful of more highly regarded prospects, and focused as folks were on the development of Strawberry, nobody thought jack about Dwight until he struck out 300 batters in his second pro season. Len Dykstra was a 13th-rounder.

G-Fafif Jun 30 2014 01:52 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

From a piece I wrote in 2010 when Frank and Darryl (and Doc and Davey) went into the Mets HOF at last. Cashen built his Mets on trades and from the farm. He hated free agency. When he was hired to re-create the Mets from the ground up in 1980, he gave free agency one legitimate shot — trying for Dave Winfield and Don Sutton in his first full off-season but settling for Mike Cubbage, Dave Roberts and the second coming of Rusty Staub — before removing that distasteful arrow from the organizational quiver. “Fans think that because of free agency, you can turn a ballclub around very quickly,” Cashen told Angell the spring before, “but that isn’t a useful way to go about what we have in mind here.” Thus, the open market went largely untapped by Cashen…and it didn’t hurt a bit in the buildup to 1986. Mazzilli for Darling and Terrell. Terrell for Johnson. Allen and Ownbey for Hernandez. Brooks, Winningham, Youmans and Fitzgerald for Carter. Bailor and Diaz for Fernandez. Young, Lee and Cook for Knight. Christensen, Gardner, Schiraldi and Tarver for Ojeda. Beane, Klink and Latham for Teufel. Even Trevińo, Kern and Harris for Foster. Heck, even Scott for Heep. Frank Cashen didn’t always fleece the other guy, and not every guy he got was the equal of what he gave up (Mike Scott) or the equal of what he thought was getting (George Foster), but every part contributed to a beautiful whole. Mix the fruits of those deals with Strawberry and Gooden and Dykstra and Elster and Aguilera and Mitchell and McDowell and Sisk, all drafted by the Cashen regime — along with pre-Cashen holdover youngsters Wilson, Backman and Orosco — and you have a contender that became a champion if not a dynasty. Hardly any free agency was involved in making the Mets great in the 1980s. In short, Cashen built Rome. He also oversaw its decline if not its fall, but nobody can stay close to perfect forever.

themetfairy Jun 30 2014 02:04 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Jul 01 2014 10:03 AM

RIP Frank, and thanks for everything!

Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2014 02:10 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

3 honorary Schaefer points to anyone who can find Cashen's date of birth and/or place of death.

Zvon Jun 30 2014 02:20 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Benjamin Grimm wrote: 3 honorary Schaefer points to anyone who can find Cashen's date of birth and/or place of death. So you've seen his Wiki. Strange, year but no day of birth. Amazing that his demise date is already up on his page, but no more details than the date.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 30 2014 02:27 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

I don't doubt Frank's legit aversion to Free Agency but do wonder how his plan succeeds if owners weren't concurrently colluding.

G-Fafif Jun 30 2014 02:33 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Collusion didn't hit until after 1986.

smg58 Jun 30 2014 02:48 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

G-Fafif wrote: In short, Cashen built Rome. He also oversaw its decline if not its fall, but nobody can stay close to perfect forever. In hindsight, it's easier to build a team up to elite status from scratch than it is to keep it elite for a long period of time. Hell, he might fared better in the long run by ripping the team up and starting over in 1990 or so, but that would have been a tough sell to himself as well as the fans.

d'Kong76 Jun 30 2014 02:51 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 30 2014 02:51 PM

Noble: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/for ... y=news_mlb

G-Fafif Jun 30 2014 02:51 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

BTW, Guys! just tweeted Frank wasn't 91 but 88, which makes the circumstances of his birth even murkier...that is assuming he was even born. Why won't Frank Cashen just show us his birth certificate? Besides the fact that he's no longer with us?

G-Fafif Jun 30 2014 03:00 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

smg58 wrote: G-Fafif wrote: In short, Cashen built Rome. He also oversaw its decline if not its fall, but nobody can stay close to perfect forever. In hindsight, it's easier to build a team up to elite status from scratch than it is to keep it elite for a long period of time. Hell, he might fared better in the long run by ripping the team up and starting over in 1990 or so, but that would have been a tough sell to himself as well as the fans. Post-1986 (a pretty convenient dividing line), Frank trusted talent and maybe misconstrued character. McReynolds was talent. Jefferies was talent. Samuel -- McIlvaine's deal but Frank had to bless it -- appeared to be talent. You couldn't blame a GM for going with guys who looked very good on paper and often on the field. Character concerns, however, squeezed out Knight maybe a little too soon, not to mention Mitchell, Dykstra and (in the face of Jefferies' potential development) Backman. I think he understood the challenge of keeping the machine humming. It just didn't hum all that efficiently after a fashion. Even in their decline state they were still a contender. There was a lot of talent on those clubs...and not enough playoff spots, perhaps.

Ceetar Jun 30 2014 03:02 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

G-Fafif wrote: BTW, Guys! just tweeted Frank wasn't 91 but 88, which makes the circumstances of his birth even murkier...that is assuming he was even born. Why won't Frank Cashen just show us his birth certificate? Besides the fact that he's no longer with us? this random link [url]http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-09-20/features/1991263233_1_orioles-82nd-birthday-ad-club from 9/20/91 mentions celebrating his 65th birthday, though not on what date. (presumably since the last article in this column). That'd put his birth year at 26 but would mean he was 87, turning 88 later this year.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 30 2014 03:10 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

According to the NY Historical Society, Frank Cashen was born on September 13, 1925, in Baltimore, MD. http://sports.nyhistory.org/tag/frank-cashen/

TransMonk Jun 30 2014 03:32 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

RIP

d'Kong76 Jun 30 2014 04:03 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

batmagadanleadoff wrote: According to the NY Historical Society, Frank Cashen was born on September 13, 1925, in Baltimore, MD. http://sports.nyhistory.org/tag/frank-cashen/ Cool web-site

Edgy MD Jun 30 2014 04:42 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

I think perhaps too much is made of failure of the Mets to repeat can linked to the team emphasizing character too much. The argument also is too often used to rope in Fred Wilpon as scapegoat.

metirish Jun 30 2014 05:10 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

RIP....cool to hear Gary and Keith talking a out Cashen...Keith getting a little chocked up

MFS62 Jun 30 2014 09:49 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

What I liked best about Cashen was his approach and commitment to organizational development. When he came here, I read stories that said he wanted to have a consistent method of developing minor leaguers so they would be ready when called to a higher level. So he first tried to have the dimensions of all the minor league parks identical as possible to Shea. Then he instituted a playbook, which was used at all levels of the organization so players wouldn't have to learn a new/ different way of doing things as they progressed up through the organization. It included defensive positioning and infield situational movement on bunts and where to position the relay man on throws from the outfield. It was similar (if not identical) to the playbook he had developed and used successfully while at Baltimore. RIP, Frank. Later

G-Fafif Jul 01 2014 02:19 AM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Frank Cashen and The Glory That Was Rome, so to speak.

Edgy MD Jul 01 2014 02:19 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

In Terry Cashman's time, Met history ended with Frank Cashen. Some would say that's still true. Certainly, the future from that point began with him. The Bowtie, Cashman declared at the end of his Mets version of "Talkin' Baseball," wasn't finished yet. Now, alas, he is. And we struggle to find a way forward.

G-Fafif Jul 01 2014 03:20 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Recommended listening: Howie Rose with Pete McCarthy on Monday night's WOR Sports Zone. Good, fair perspective on the GM, including his professional relationship with him.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jul 01 2014 03:30 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Edgy MD wrote: In Terry Cashman's time, Met history ended with Frank Cashen. Some would say that's still true. Certainly, the future from that point began with him. The Bowtie, Cashman declared at the end of his Mets version of "Talkin' Baseball," wasn't finished yet. Now, alas, he is. And we struggle to find a way forward. Terry actually made some Subway Series-era versions of the song, but they're not quite as the original. I'm a geek, but a I get a lump in the throat at the line: "Good bye, America" When Say Hey said "So Long." But Rusty kept us more than even McGraw, he never stopped believing And that's the way a race is often run And pennant flags are won."

seawolf17 Jul 01 2014 05:24 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Frank's a centerpiece of my Mets autograph collection; wrote to him a few years ago and he returned a signed card to me.

Edgy MD Jul 02 2014 01:31 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

The Mets have announced the uniformed personnel will wear a patch (but not a bowtie, apparently) in honor of Frank Cashen.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 02 2014 01:32 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

A bow-tie patch would be the way to go.

Edgy MD Jul 02 2014 01:37 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

There can be no doubt.

d'Kong76 Jul 02 2014 01:55 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Wouldn't take much brainstorming to arrive at bowtie.

Zvon Jul 02 2014 03:28 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

If going with precedent: Though I don't think they'd have the bowtie in colors. If I can do that in minutes the Mets should do better.

Edgy MD Jul 02 2014 03:38 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Good job. Just write to them ASAP. I sent an e-mail through their webpage, but I have little faith that it'll reach the right eyes.

Zvon Jul 02 2014 03:56 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

I sent it to Mets360. Hopefully they will give it exposure and then whatever happens happens. They really should do something. An black armband is perfectly fine w/me as well. Maybe you thought the idea about the players wearing a bow-tie was silly, but I thought it kool. All wear a black bow-tie. Can't do that for the entire season but for a day? A weekend? I'd love a pic of a player in one for a card. Wayyyy kool.

Edgy MD Jul 02 2014 04:04 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

I didn't think it was silly as a thought --- so much as a challenge to execute with the dignity befitting the situation. Athletes can't easily wear constricting things around their neck during game-play --- but hang it too loosely, and it begins to look like clown-wear, which wouldn't honor the passing of a dignified man very well. And even the most well played execution would start to wear thin as the season continued.

Zvon Jul 02 2014 04:10 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Just a clip on that they "clip on" above their top jersey buttons (or right around where a bow-tie would be). For a day. Sept 13th- his birthday. Or some other significant date. True, someone will probably say it's bad taste or something but fuck em if they don't "get" the tribute.

Edgy MD Jul 02 2014 04:19 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

Given a few months to get it right, I'm sure they'd find an excellent compromise between taste and utility. Given 'til Friday, I fear they'd come up with a sartorial version of the scare wigs worn on Rusty Staub Day.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 03 2014 08:26 AM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

… On Friday the Mets will add a Frank Cashen memorial patch. It will just feature his initials, but Phil came up with a much better design. [fimg=322]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrkGqxPCUAAKw_q.png[/fimg]

d'Kong76 Jul 03 2014 08:33 AM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

batmagadanleadoff Jul 03 2014 08:40 AM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

d'Kong76 wrote: [fimg=222]http://i.imgur.com/ZGdNdQn.png[/fimg]

d'Kong76 Jul 03 2014 08:50 AM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

It's the best idea for a memorial patch.

Zvon Jul 03 2014 01:46 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

So it's a little circle with his initials? That'll do nice. :) I still wish they'd wear a bow-tie for one game.

Zvon Jul 03 2014 01:47 PM Re: RIP Frank Cashen

batmagadanleadoff wrote: … On Friday the Mets will add a Frank Cashen memorial patch. It will just feature his initials, but Phil came up with a much better design. [fimg=322]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrkGqxPCUAAKw_q.png[/fimg] Yea, a patch like that would be real nice.