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Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Ashie62 Aug 11 2014 08:19 PM

2nd Surgery possible.. [url]http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/5801/jeremy-hefner

Edgy MD Aug 11 2014 08:44 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Man, we suddenly have a lot of injury threads. All candidates for a 2015 rotation slot, please take one step forward.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 11 2014 08:50 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Poor Hef.

themetfairy Aug 11 2014 08:56 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

That's heartbreaking - poor guy!

Centerfield Aug 12 2014 07:23 AM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Dear Matt, This is what I was fucking talking about. Slow the fuck down. Love, Sandy

seawolf17 Aug 12 2014 08:09 AM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Centerfield wrote: Dear Matt, This is what I was fucking talking about. Slow the fuck down. Love, Sandy Wonder if Sandy "had a guy" take care of Hefner to teach Harvey a lesson.

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 08:20 AM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Centerfield wrote: Dear Matt, This is what I was fucking talking about. Slow the fuck down. Love, Sandy yes, but Harvey is not Hefner. Obviously he should be cautious, but dictating one's rehab based on how some other guy's arm feels is worthless.

Edgy MD Aug 12 2014 08:36 AM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

I don't understand. Certainly, everybody knows that Harvey is not Hefner. But the protocols for rehabilitation are based on the successes and failures of the cases that precede yours, and thinking that they are all irrelevant because I'm me and they're not is illogical macho posturing, and publicly challenging his team was embarrassingly counterproductive. And hopefully a very human and relevant reminder of our universal vulnerability in the very next locker will be instructive in introducing humility and patience to his approach. It couldn't be more relevant --- medically and morally.

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 08:44 AM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Hefner's sample in the grand scheme of "successfully rehabbed Tommy John surgeries" is such a fraction of a percentage that it's not altering nuttin'. Unless he specifically emphasizes that "Hey, it really hurt when I did X" there's really not a whole lot to move the numbers. Especially since he'd already progressed to pitching. I mean, what's Harvey supposed to try, not pitching? Of course a failure informs your thinking for other rehab procedures, we're always learning more. But pitching is tough on the arm, and we know this already. You could try more rest, less effort, all sorts of things, and it could still fail. There's certainly value in rest and recovery, but that same value is in getting to a point and shutting down for the winter versus a slower build up before shutting down for a shorter time. It's not like Hefner was doing something radically new that we could point to and say "well, scrap that, it might not be working"

Edgy MD Aug 12 2014 08:50 AM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Ceetar wrote: I mean, what's Harvey supposed to try, not pitching? Not being an impatient and petulant child picking public fights with the team for keeping him down. He could try that.

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 08:53 AM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: I mean, what's Harvey supposed to try, not pitching? Not being an impatient and petulant child picking public fights with the team for keeping him down. He could try that. I'm pretty sure if he's doing that (which I don't believe) it's not hurting his elbow.

Centerfield Aug 12 2014 12:20 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Wait, for real? You needed someone to explain to you the connection between Harvey and Hefner?

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 12:45 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Centerfield wrote: Wait, for real? You needed someone to explain to you the connection between Harvey and Hefner? Yes. What about Hefner's medical condition makes Harvey MORE likely to blow out his elbow again if he pushes hard in rehab than if he takes it easy?

metsmarathon Aug 12 2014 12:57 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

absolutely nothing. what it should do is reinforce hte notion that recovery from tjs is not a guaranteed thing, that you can't just rush it if you deem yourself willful enough, and that reinjury is indeed possible. the relevance to harvey is the immediacy of the guy immediately below him alphabetically on the roster serving as a fair warning that patience is better than impatience when recovering from a surgicaly repaired ligament. sandy's hypothetical message to harvey should be, see, matt, this is exactly why we want to take it easy with pushing you back, because pushing you back before you're ready could have disastrous results. hell, pushing him back when he's ready could have disastrous results. but it is imperative to the organization to use an overabundance of caution when deling with harvey's rehab, and it is therefore imperative that harvey share in that overabundance of caution.

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 01:17 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

What if said caution means his arm is weaker the next time he pushes it and that leads to strain? To build up to 100 pitches and 'healthy' you need to push yourself. Certainly monitor it, do health checks, compare soreness to previous sessions. If Harvey says "felt the soreness more in my forearm that time" and that seems to compare to what Hefner's rehab notes say, then certainly think about a few extra days of caution. But simply caution cause guys get hurt pitching is silly. That level of caution should have already been built into Harvey's rehab schedule. I suspect a lot of this has to do with goal visualization anyway. Perhaps there is a difference, mentally, in rehabbing cause you're hurt, and rehabbing to get back into a game. Aiming for "Opening Day starter 2015" is too far out and not Harvey's decision anyway, so he's aiming for 'pitch again'. He doesn't want to be banished to some 9-5 exercise routine in the backwaters of Florida for 16 months. I get that.

metsmarathon Aug 12 2014 01:22 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

yes, you want to build him up to 100 pitches, not to 60 pitches. but you build him up to 100 pitched in 10 steps, not 6 steps to accelerate the timeline. ideally the rehab schedule has those 10 steps built in, and while the doctors and trainers and therapists are there to implement the rehab plan, it is ulitmately up to the athlete to execute the rehab regimen, and ultimately up to him to follow the plan and stick to it, pushing only so far as is necessary to progress to the next planned step, not to jump ahead and push too hard and throw the whole damned plan away. you want the athlete to push himself, but also to control himself, and to understand most of all, that reinjuring the ligament because of impatience benefits noone.

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 01:30 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

metsmarathon wrote: yes, you want to build him up to 100 pitches, not to 60 pitches. but you build him up to 100 pitched in 10 steps, not 6 steps to accelerate the timeline. ideally the rehab schedule has those 10 steps built in, and while the doctors and trainers and therapists are there to implement the rehab plan, it is ulitmately up to the athlete to execute the rehab regimen, and ultimately up to him to follow the plan and stick to it, pushing only so far as is necessary to progress to the next planned step, not to jump ahead and push too hard and throw the whole damned plan away. you want the athlete to push himself, but also to control himself, and to understand most of all, that reinjuring the ligament because of impatience benefits noone. Right, he's been fairly closely monitored, and while it's certainly possible he might try to push farther, haven't seen any signs of it. So there's no need to alter his rehab schedule because the caution that should be inherent in pitcher rehab is not better or worse or even more understood based on what Hefner experienced.

Edgy MD Aug 12 2014 01:45 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Ceetar wrote: But simply caution cause guys get hurt pitching is silly. That level of caution should have already been built into Harvey's rehab schedule. It has been, and he's taken several opportunities to push back against that schedule and that plan, publicly and vocally. That's the point. Ceetar wrote: Right, he's been fairly closely monitored, and while it's certainly possible he might try to push farther, haven't seen any signs of it. Then I would beg you to look harder. He's been pushing repeatedly all season.

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 02:03 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: But simply caution cause guys get hurt pitching is silly. That level of caution should have already been built into Harvey's rehab schedule. It has been, and he's taken several opportunities to push back against that schedule and that plan, publicly and vocally. That's the point. Ceetar wrote: Right, he's been fairly closely monitored, and while it's certainly possible he might try to push farther, haven't seen any signs of it. Then I would beg you to look harder. He's been pushing repeatedly all season. I meant actually, on the mound, push harder. i.e. "I'm only authorized to throw 30 pitches but that guy just distracted the trainer so i'm gonna throw 35." There's nothing wrong with him saying he feels fine and can pitch and wants to try to do so. He's revised his goals multiple times this season, having been pushed back. Everyone heals at different rates and there's no reason not to push for September 15th if your body responds just because the average body isn't ready to pitch until October first.

Edgy MD Aug 12 2014 02:14 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

You really do watch Gray's Anatomy live!

metsmarathon Aug 12 2014 02:27 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Ceetar wrote: So there's no need to alter his rehab schedule because the caution that should be inherent in pitcher rehab is not better or worse or even more understood based on what Hefner experienced. no, and that wasn't the point. the point is for harvey to be able to better understand the need for caution as a result of what his teammate just experienced. the point is not that hefners injury should cause hte mets' medical people reevaluating their delings with harevy, but rather for harvey to recalibrate his own goals and preferred timetable and demands and expectations based on the knowledge of what can happen.

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 02:31 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

metsmarathon wrote: Ceetar wrote: So there's no need to alter his rehab schedule because the caution that should be inherent in pitcher rehab is not better or worse or even more understood based on what Hefner experienced. no, and that wasn't the point. the point is for harvey to be able to better understand the need for caution as a result of what his teammate just experienced. the point is not that hefners injury should cause hte mets' medical people reevaluating their delings with harevy, but rather for harvey to recalibrate his own goals and preferred timetable and demands and expectations based on the knowledge of what can happen. Come on. You don't think Harvey is aware of that?

Edgy MD Aug 12 2014 02:36 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

I think his statements and behavior have demonstrably shown he was pushing to set a recovery record and that he has been publicly disappointed with the team for not allowing him to try. And that's why, a bunch posts ago, Centerfield wrote what many of us were thinking, that poor Hef should be taken as an object lesson by Harvey. It's obvious.

Ceetar Aug 12 2014 02:59 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Edgy MD wrote: I think his statements and behavior have demonstrably shown he was pushing to set a recovery record and that he has been publicly disappointed with the team for not allowing him to try. And that's why, a bunch posts ago, Centerfield wrote what many of us were thinking, that poor Hef should be taken as an object lesson by Harvey. It's obvious. And I disagree that it's demonstrable. "Of course, I won't do it unless I'm cleared to do it," he said I realize I don't need to do that now. My fastball is going to be there. My slider is going to be there. I don't need to throw it with max effort in between starts to keep it." The biggest thing is being healthy and not having any setbacks.” “The last thing you want to do is jeopardize your career or 2015, but I think everyone is doing their best to figure what the right time is,” I’m hoping the process keeps going smoothly, and you never know what can happen. And his motivation seems pretty clear too. He wants to rehab to the point that he's done with rehab. I don't want to go through all this work and wonder all winter where I am.

Fman99 Aug 12 2014 03:58 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Who is this Harvey Hefner guy you're all talking about?

d'Kong76 Aug 12 2014 04:20 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Could be one of the heirs to the Playboy fortune?

themetfairy Aug 12 2014 04:22 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

d'Kong76 wrote: Could be one of the heirs to the Playboy fortune? [fimg=640]http://us.cdn281.fansshare.com/photos/mattharvey/matt-harvey-espn-the-mag-body-issue-sports-1386729996.jpg[/fimg]

Edgy MD Aug 12 2014 04:47 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Centerfield wrote: Dear Matt, This is what I was fucking talking about. Slow the fuck down. Love, Sandy Pretty much kinda how it's going down.

Frayed Knot Aug 12 2014 04:54 PM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Must have heard from a dozen or more pitchers over the years following their return from TJ surgery about the best advice they got about recovery from previous TJ patients, and almost inevitably it was: DONT. RUSH. IT.

metsmarathon Aug 13 2014 06:56 AM Re: Hefner blew his elbow out again....

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: So there's no need to alter his rehab schedule because the caution that should be inherent in pitcher rehab is not better or worse or even more understood based on what Hefner experienced. no, and that wasn't the point. the point is for harvey to be able to better understand the need for caution as a result of what his teammate just experienced. the point is not that hefners injury should cause hte mets' medical people reevaluating their delings with harevy, but rather for harvey to recalibrate his own goals and preferred timetable and demands and expectations based on the knowledge of what can happen. Come on. You don't think Harvey is aware of that? universally, we all undesrtand the dangers of texting and driving, or drinking and driving. yet many of us still do it all the time. sometimes we need hte neighbor's kid to wrap himself around a tree for us to finally have what we already know to become something we understand, recognize, appreciate, and follow.