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The Scottish Question

Aye! Secede, ye 'Scots, wha hae wi Wallace bled!

6 votes

Nay! Lang bide th' union!

6 votes

Edgy MD Sep 02 2014 08:32 PM

A mad Scotsman kinna make up his mind about whether to remove the St. Andrew's Cross from the Union Jack. He wants more freedom, aye. But he fears the unforeseen repercussions about breaking with Westminster and embracing the self rule of a legislature of mad Scotsmen and Scotswomen like himself and his wee lass. So he offers you your weight in whiskey and fine plaid woolen textiles if you'll cast the vote for him. How do ye vote on Scottish independence? [youtube:3t8f3cpn]PTRzvmxsci0[/youtube:3t8f3cpn]

Benjamin Grimm Sep 02 2014 08:45 PM Re: The Scottish Question

The outcome won't affect me, of course, but I'm rooting for it to happen. I have a bit of a soft spot for Scotland (I was married there!) and have always thought that they got a bum deal in 1707. And a century before that, when James VI of Scotland became James I of England, he should have ruled from Edinburgh instead of from London. (That's what I would have done if I was the king of Scotland and also became the king of England.)

Frayed Knot Sep 02 2014 08:48 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Benjamin Grimm wrote: (I was married there!) Do you still have the kilt you wore?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 03 2014 07:53 AM Re: The Scottish Question

I have no strong opinion on this but agree with Grimm's reasoning generally and will pretty much do whatever the Proclaimers ask of me.

Edgy MD Sep 03 2014 09:20 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Here's my reasoning: Unionists in Northern Ireland are campaigning like heck for a NO vote in Scotland, reasoning that Scottish secession seriously weakens the Northern Ireland status as a natural part of the UK. So, I'm a-voting AYE.

Ceetar Sep 03 2014 11:48 AM Re: The Scottish Question

I'm 1/8th Scottish but am entirely uninformed on this issue. Single Malt?

Gwreck Sep 03 2014 01:14 PM Re: The Scottish Question

I have some friends who care about this deeply. The position against independence is that by becoming independent, Scotland becomes the approximate equivalent of Slovakia. Not that there's anything wrong with Slovakia, but the money and resources are more abundant in the other part of the country (ie. England/Wales) and there are all sorts of geopolitical advantages that come with being a part of the UK that don't exist as an independent nation. Also there are apparently problems with what sort of currency they are going to use. --- The more interesting potential secession in Europe, in my opinion, is that of Catalonia.

Ashie62 Sep 03 2014 02:07 PM Re: The Scottish Question

My Maternal Grandmother is/was Scottish so Aye. An economic non entity though, kinda like Ireland.

Trachsel My Tears Sep 04 2014 04:40 AM Re: The Scottish Question

One of my daughters was partly educated in Edinburgh, and tells me that the Scottish are a Scandinavian people, so--fuck, yes! An Independent Scotland!

sharpie Sep 04 2014 08:18 AM Re: The Scottish Question

I voted no. I like people coming together and not splitting apart. One strong country becomes two weaker ones.

Edgy MD Sep 04 2014 10:12 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Trachsel My Tears wrote: One of my daughters was partly educated in Edinburgh, and tells me that the Scottish are a Scandinavian people, so--fuck, yes! An Independent Scotland! Well, a Celtic people crossed with raiding Scandanavian hordes, yeah. It's amazing about the Scots --- they stand with only the Persians as the only peoples the Romans couldn't quite crack, but the Vikes were able to punch them from behind a handful of times.

Mets – Willets Point Sep 04 2014 01:31 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Can't say I'm informed enough on the situation to offer a qualified opinion, but I generally think unity is more beneficial than divisiveness.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 06 2014 03:09 PM Re: The Scottish Question

sharpie wrote: One strong country becomes two weaker ones. Probably the only reason I'd be anti-split... and probably the prevailing one.

Edgy MD Sep 06 2014 08:20 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Mets – Willets Point wrote: Can't say I'm informed enough on the situation to offer a qualified opinion, but I generally think unity is more beneficial than divisiveness. Sure, as a general principle. But it's easy for us to say, 240-ish years after our forebears broke from the crown.

metirish Sep 07 2014 07:23 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Edgy MD wrote: Here's my reasoning: Unionists in Northern Ireland are campaigning like heck for a NO vote in Scotland, reasoning that Scottish secession seriously weakens the Northern Ireland status as a natural part of the UK. So, I'm a-voting AYE. this , it is their last hurrah for their tired notions , polls indicate a YES vote only a week after NO vote looked likely , this obviously is a big story both sides of the border in Ireland ...

Nymr83 Sep 08 2014 07:58 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Edgy MD wrote: Mets – Willets Point wrote: Can't say I'm informed enough on the situation to offer a qualified opinion, but I generally think unity is more beneficial than divisiveness. Sure, as a general principle. But it's easy for us to say, 240-ish years after our forebears broke from the crown. I pretty much echo what Willets said... I just don't know. But it does seem like even if the reasons are legitimate the results could be catastrophic for whatever economy they have left. Also, what would this do to the UK itself? I don't know enough about the regional breakdown of politics in the UK, does this spell the doom of one party or the other in Parliament the way cutting off California would for Democrats or Texas for Republicans?

sharpie Sep 08 2014 08:09 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Scotland votes to the left of England so it would strengthen the Tory hand there.

Edgy MD Sep 09 2014 07:22 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Polls are swinging to "Yes" now.

metirish Sep 09 2014 07:40 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Unionists are worried http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... -1.1922025

Valadius Sep 12 2014 10:07 AM Re: The Scottish Question

I really think it's a bad idea. Let devolution continue to take its course. Full-blown independence would create a very weak Scotland with a finite revenue stream. It just wouldn't work out for very long.

Edgy MD Sep 12 2014 10:33 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Wondering if Paisley's death will impact anything.

metirish Sep 12 2014 03:56 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Edgy MD wrote: Wondering if Paisley's death will impact anything. Thousands of Orange Order members will be marching in Edinburgh this weekend, the YES side are happy with this.....imagine if you were on the fence and you saw these bigots marching and beating their big lambeg drums, surely you would vote yes

Edgy MD Sep 12 2014 08:42 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Hard to say. Yes, but there's also an element of proud Protestant establishmentarianism in Scotland. At least, I've seen as much in football crowds. And they'd have something to lose. I also wonder if Paisley's death may make the marchers a little more somber and well behaved and sympathetic. And one or two voters might think, "They're nut bags, but they're our nut bags." But yeah, my first instinct is to think, if they carry on as usual, they'll help the yes vote.

metirish Sep 13 2014 07:32 PM Re: The Scottish Question

12,000 marched , some choice words used by the speakers Let me remind you that when an enemy came against the city of Londonderry, God’s people famously said there will be no surrender to this evil enemy. That enemy it would seem is Nationalism

Edgy MD Sep 18 2014 06:13 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Other important views to consider... [youtube:3lhm9duz]Avp9aUkM5g0[/youtube:3lhm9duz] [youtube:3lhm9duz]W6vDzf-wSbk[/youtube:3lhm9duz]

Frayed Knot Sep 19 2014 05:45 AM Re: The Scottish Question

The 'Naes' carry the day - and it turned out to be not even all that close; 55-45-ish I had a feeling this vote was going to swing to 'No' despite the polls which showed it edging the other way in the final weeks; that this was one of those deals where more people would claim to support Independence than would actually pull that lever in the end.

Frayed Knot Sep 20 2014 08:51 PM Re: The Scottish Question

I hadn't realized tip this week how lopsided the UK population was in favor of England. I mean I obviously knew they were the biggest part of the union, I just didn't realize to what degree. ~ 64 mil population in the UK total But less than 6 mil of those are in Scotland, a shade over 3 in Wales, and just under 2 in N.I. So about 53 of the 64 mil are in England. Not sure what I would have guessed if asked that question prior to knowing the facts, but I wouldn't have thought the English/Scots ratio as high as nearly 10/1. That would have been one very tiny country had the secession votes carried the day.

Edgy MD Sep 20 2014 09:11 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island probably out-populate Scotland. Scotland's got more oil, though.

Frayed Knot Sep 20 2014 09:23 PM Re: The Scottish Question

B & Q probably 2mil (maybe 2-1/4) each plus SI at maybe .5 -- so not quite, but pretty close. And, yeah, lots of oil, but counting on one source of income is highly dangerous, especially as there are already signs of that source diminishing. Scotland would be roughly equivalent in pop to Denmark, Finland, and Slovakia - ranking approx in the mid-20s among European nations.

Edgy MD Sep 20 2014 09:45 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Fracking, man. Oil reserves are not going to run out any time soon. Other sources of income and revenue: fishing, whiskey, high tech, textiles, and the sheep those textiles come from, to say nothing of tourism. Scotland's doing OK and they know it.

metirish Sep 20 2014 10:55 PM Re: The Scottish Question

The Union is fucked, it is now only in name, the First Minister of Wales said as much, Cameron the twat promised so much to Scotland if they voted NO he now can't back it up, devolution is the word now .Adams wants a vote in Ireland.....Yeah the YES vote won the day but the horse has left the barn....pity the Scots , how any people would vote to stay in this Union is beyond me, I thought they were a proud people , 45% are I suppose .

Frayed Knot Sep 21 2014 06:32 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Fracking, man. Oil reserves are not going to run out any time soon. Other sources of income and revenue: fishing, whiskey, high tech, textiles, and the sheep those textiles come from, to say nothing of tourism. Scotland's doing OK and they know it. Yes, Scotland is doing fine, has a long tradition as an industrious nation behind them, and neither they (or anybody else) are going to run out of oil any time soon. But that there are signs that the bonanza from the North Sea oil is slowing and it seems that citing that source as an all-purpose solution to whatever problems separation might bring up is the standard go-to move for some folks and I think they need to be wary of over-reliance, or at least over-confidence, on that as a never-ending cash cow. Kind of on the order of: Hey Detroit will never crash, we have the auto industry to prop us up. It's always there, right up until the moment when it isn't.

Ashie62 Sep 21 2014 07:28 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Regarding Fracking, every boom has a bust.

MFS62 Sep 21 2014 08:53 AM Re: The Scottish Question

At least there was one long fought victory in Scotland this week. The members of the Royal St Andrews Golf Club voted to admit female members for the first time since it was established over 250 years ago. Later

Edgy MD Sep 21 2014 11:42 AM Re: The Scottish Question

Fracking, man. Oil reserves are not going to run out any time soon. Other sources of income and revenue: fishing, whiskey, high tech, textiles, and the sheep those textiles come from, to say nothing of tourism. Scotland's doing OK and they know it. Yes, Scotland is doing fine, has a long tradition as an industrious nation behind them, and neither they (or anybody else) are going to run out of oil any time soon. But that there are signs that the bonanza from the North Sea oil is slowing and it seems that citing that source as an all-purpose solution to whatever problems separation might bring up is the standard go-to move for some folks and I think they need to be wary of over-reliance, or at least over-confidence, on that as a never-ending cash cow. Kind of on the order of: Hey Detroit will never crash, we have the auto industry to prop us up. It's always there, right up until the moment when it isn't. Yeah, I didn't do that.

Frayed Knot Sep 21 2014 12:44 PM Re: The Scottish Question Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 22 2014 06:34 AM

Not suggesting that YOU did. But it was something I heard on more than just a few occasions leading up to the vote; on questions about how they would adjust to a country 1/10th the size, and how they could handle national security, and their own currency, etc., and inevitably the answer came back as some form of: North Sea Oil will cover all payments, solve all problems, and cure all ills. And, yes, that's a bit of an exaggeration and not a direct quote, but there were certainly a number of voices who kept falling back on some version of that.

metirish Sep 21 2014 08:00 PM Re: The Scottish Question

Interesting comment here http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... generation