Oct 09 2014 04:01 PM
Re: Shortstop 2015
Ceetar wrote:
nah, doesn't have to be for Christmas. we want something nice for my Birthday (3/25). Plenty of time. |
Not Christmas? snif...snif...
SOB!
Master Index of Archived Threads
Shortstop 2015
| Edgy MD Oct 09 2014 11:07 AM |
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Fox Sports reporting that J.J. Hardy is close to signing a highly unusual (unprecedented?) mid-post-season contract extension with the Orioles.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 09 2014 11:44 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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To the extent it takes an option off the market, bad. But I'm not a big Hardy advocate.
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| d'Kong76 Oct 09 2014 11:55 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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[u:27tft9hl]Shortstops[/u:27tft9hl]
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| Edgy MD Oct 09 2014 11:58 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The FA Marketplace, According to Cots' Baseball Contracts
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| d'Kong76 Oct 09 2014 12:07 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Rmpl hee hee!
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| Ceetar Oct 09 2014 12:10 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Hanley.
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| Edgy MD Oct 09 2014 12:16 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I lost time formatting!
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| metsmarathon Oct 09 2014 02:00 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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projected 2015 WAR for available shortstops, per steamer, as shown by fangraphs... fwiw...
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| Edgy MD Oct 09 2014 02:11 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Steamer predicts Tejada to put up 0.9, which isn't so bad when you consider that he only projects 65 games from the Rube.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 09 2014 02:11 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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A recently written scouting report from the 'Minor League Ball' site (also linked in the AFL thread)
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| Ceetar Oct 09 2014 02:29 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Doesn't seem to be any reliability scores available yet. I suspect it's low for Flores, especially since all his value is predicated on him playing an above average SS which unfortunately is still up in the air. Actually has him playing a better SS than Tejada, which seems like a pipe dream to me. I guess Jed Lowrie's okay. Might be worth a bit as long as you don't have to over-commit to him. First professional HR in Citi Field after all.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 09 2014 02:43 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Buzz is saying 3/$40 for Hardy to stay in Bal'mer
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 09 2014 02:44 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Still waiting for that Didi Gregorius deal!
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| Zvon Oct 09 2014 03:35 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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We need that shortstop and/or that outfielder. I don't know which will be resolved first, but it should effect the approach to the other. It could decide if the position can be carried (possibly as is) or really needs a big upgrade. So for now I'll just sit back and watch.
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| Ceetar Oct 09 2014 03:56 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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nah, doesn't have to be for Christmas. we want something nice for my Birthday (3/25). Plenty of time.
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| Zvon Oct 09 2014 04:01 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not Christmas? snif...snif... SOB!
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| Lefty Specialist Oct 09 2014 05:16 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The last time Sandy got us something for Christmas, it was Chris Young. There's some high-grade anthracite for you.
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| Zvon Oct 09 2014 07:47 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I counted Grandy as an early gift.
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| Zvon Oct 09 2014 07:48 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not that it was the greatest gift....didn't totally suck though.
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| Edgy MD Oct 09 2014 09:12 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, I wouldn't say that's up in the air so much as off in the ether. I'd find it highly surprising to see Flores play an above-average shortstop, or an above-average anything.
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| seawolf17 Oct 10 2014 10:23 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm going to beat the Bring Back Jose drum all winter. Toronto owes him at least $70M ($22/$22/$22/$22 or a $4 buyout).
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 10 2014 11:08 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't believe they will go with Flores except as a Plan B at short.
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| Edgy MD Oct 10 2014 11:19 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That contract was signed after his outlier season, with an .877 OPS. He's been 100 points lower since then. No way Sandy takes the butt end of that contract without some generous cash-eatin' by Toronto.
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| Lefty Specialist Oct 10 2014 11:34 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ya know, that's a list that makes me want to play Wilmer Flores at shortstop for a year.
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| d'Kong76 Oct 10 2014 11:37 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I was going to say that too, but I was afraid someone
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| Ceetar Oct 10 2014 12:00 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Hanley!
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 10 2014 12:30 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I was down on Sandy for having not pulled the trigger on a shortstop trade before the season, but as things turned out the rumored Young Gun SS candidates weren't all as good as Ruben Tejada & Flores were.
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| Edgy MD Oct 10 2014 12:36 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not definitive, but indicative of a minor victory --- if a pyrrhic one --- for Sandy's restraint. Now we go back to the same situation with perhaps many of the same names on his list. All maybe a year older with that much of their growing pains behind them, but the same can mostly be said of Tejada and Flores too.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 10 2014 01:41 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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As was the non-sgning of Stephen Drew Sandy made a reference last off-season to expecting somewhat of a regression to the norm for both Drew & Tejada and that the difference you'd get from each would hardly be worth $20 million (he was assuming a 2x$10 -ish deal which was what was being rumored at the time) Drew WAR 2013 = 3.1; 2014 = -0.3 for what turned out to be $10 million and about 2/3 of the season Tejada WAR 2013 = -1.1; 2014 = +1.4 for $1.1 mil Now maybe things turn out differently if SD signs during the winter (IOW, if a Boras client acts NOT like a Boras client) and plays all year, but again, probably not to the tune of close to $20 million worth. This makes it the 2nd year in a row where shunning the fashionable "get" (the MUST get in the minds of some) turned out to be the better move. 2013 = Michael Bourn
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| smg58 Oct 11 2014 09:47 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The "duh" way of discouraging teams from making qualifying offers to borderline players is to make it clear that your client will take the offer.
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| Edgy MD Oct 11 2014 11:00 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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What shortstop would you trade Syndergaard --- or Syndergaard-plus --- for?
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| Frayed Knot Oct 11 2014 01:28 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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One caution about SS prospects is to choose which ones you expect to remain a SS - cuz those who don't often won't have to bat to be all that valuable once they're off of SS
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| Edgy MD Oct 11 2014 06:49 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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And that would put Lindor at the top of the list. Near big league ready and no questions about the defense. But Steamer agrees with me that the offense isn't looking to be ready, and projects 73 games and a 0.7 WAR for 2015.
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| Centerfield Oct 11 2014 07:01 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm fine with Flores/Reynolds/Tejada. Hopefully they can get the job done until Cechini is ready.
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| TheOldMole Oct 13 2014 04:01 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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May be too early to give up on Flores developing as a hitter.
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| Rockin' Doc Oct 14 2014 07:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not pretending to know what the answer at shortstop is, but I'm fairly sure that Tejada isn't it.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 14 2014 07:58 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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As a hitter? ... definitely too early. As a short-stop? ... not so sure. I have little confidence that he'll ever be anything other than an occasional fill-in there.
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| Vic Sage Oct 15 2014 08:19 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't know what his defensive numbers were this year, but Flores certainly passed the eye test for me. He has a strong, accurate arm and soft hands. Range is obviously the issue for him, but there have been HoF SSs with less than good range, if they made up for it with intelligent positioning and consistency on D, and a productive bat. Ripken and Jeter come immediately to mind.
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| Edgy MD Oct 15 2014 08:30 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not so much for me. Strong, accurate arm? Certainly. Soft hands? Mostly.
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| Ceetar Oct 15 2014 08:44 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The 2015 Mets can't afford to play around with Flores. As of Opening Day, he's not the answer. He can't hit or field enough.
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| Edgy MD Oct 15 2014 08:47 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He's got no potential?
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| Ceetar Oct 15 2014 08:53 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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he's got no position AND he has potential.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 15 2014 09:08 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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What makes you so convinced? The kid is 22 and hit the living shit out of the ball. Limited defensively I'd say, probably not a good SS over a long period even, but I'd bet he'll outproduce Muffy beginning in '15, given equal opportunity to play. What do you say? Let's bet a beer on it.
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| Ceetar Oct 15 2014 09:19 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He didn't even outproduce Tejada with the bat in 2014. It's not that I'm convinced, it's that the facts suggest he's not a good hitter. I'm not denying he's not young and full of potential and very well might hit well in 2015, I'm just saying I don't see the 2015 Mets as a team that should make that gamble at the onset. He certainly hasn't gotten enough exposure to say boom or bust either, but nor has he gotten enough reps at SS to proclaim that either. I'd be willing to make the bet but I'm not sure they'll get equal opportunity to play to really figure it out.
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| Edgy MD Oct 15 2014 09:27 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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And he's got top-shelf taste in beer.
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| Ceetar Oct 15 2014 09:34 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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hmm? I missed that.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 15 2014 10:14 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Sorry I thought you said he had no potential either. As often the case, the "facts" we look at tend to matter. If you discount to irregular work Flores got over the opening months of the season where he yo-yoed up and back and was used as a bench player, it's clear he was very much a better hitter than Tejada (and Tejada, it should be noted, was actually better once his regular gig went away and his PT became sporadic).
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| Edgy MD Oct 15 2014 10:30 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I didn't see that as much. I thought he was all arms and could do almost nothing better than grounding out on pitches away.
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| Lefty Specialist Oct 15 2014 12:07 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If Flores was given one position and was allowed to remain in the lineup every day, I have no doubt he'd outproduce Murph over the course of a season. And that's no slight against Murphy, who is what he is- an above-average singles and doubles hitter and a less-than-average fielder. Flores, in addition to being much younger, is a better fielder and has much more pop. He was told to play shortstop and did it passably. Now imagine Murphy at shortstop. The problem is that you can't have both of them in the lineup as the middle infielders. One position has to be manned by a good fielder to help cover for the deficiencies of the other. I don't think Murphy's going to get better or have more trade value than he does right now. So that, plus the realities of the Wilpons (much as we hate them) means he needs to be traded this winter.
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| Edgy MD Oct 15 2014 12:11 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not so convinced that Flores is necessarily a better fielder than Muh.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 15 2014 12:39 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not sure Flores is a better hitter than Murph either - at least not initially.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 15 2014 12:54 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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You shut your whorish mouth.
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| seawolf17 Oct 15 2014 01:19 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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| Edgy MD Oct 15 2014 01:33 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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| Lefty Specialist Oct 15 2014 01:38 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Even if Toronto paid 2/3 of what he's owed the Wilpons wouldn't bite. He would solve 2 problems (SS and leadoff), but I just can't imagine a scenario where this would happen. Plus, he hasn't been quite the same player since he left. Which is too bad because he was as electric as a player can get for a couple of years there with the Mets.
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| Edgy MD Oct 15 2014 01:40 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Three problems: shortstop, leadoff, and fan faith.
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| seawolf17 Oct 15 2014 01:44 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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For Murphy and Colon, and the Mets eat the entire salary.
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| Edgy MD Oct 15 2014 01:57 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Mets don't eat that way. Uh, uh.
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| Ashie62 Oct 21 2014 07:02 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'd focus my attention talking to the Cubs about Starlin Castro or Addison Russell. Russell is likely near untouchable.
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| Lefty Specialist Oct 22 2014 09:17 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Don't like Castro. When I see him play I think of this scene from Bull Durham:
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 22 2014 09:38 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not a Castrophile either.
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| Edgy MD Oct 22 2014 09:42 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not sure baseball culture remembers what a good shortstop looks like. Folks may have unreasonable demands based on what can realistically be gotten.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 22 2014 10:08 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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* Tough to call Addison Russell 'untouchable' - especially seeing as how he's already been touched (so to speak) and is now on a team that has several options at SS.
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| Lefty Specialist Oct 22 2014 11:09 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Castro's style of play isn't exactly celebrated in Chicago. They'd eat him alive in New York. He's a great talent, but he has too many brain farts and lazy plays.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 22 2014 12:42 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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All true - Keith in particular got on him pretty good during a telecast this year for his bouts of lackadaisical play, particularly on defense. But he's also young and young players sometimes grow out of such habits.
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| Vic Sage Oct 22 2014 02:13 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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yeah, you've got to consider a 25-year old SS with a decent glove, a good bat and a relatively affordable contract. Maybe he's a turkey, but i'd buy a slice of that for a $1.
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| Edgy MD Oct 22 2014 06:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I think the price will be considerably higher.
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| d'Kong76 Oct 22 2014 06:10 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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And they may have turkey taste, but I'm told a bologna
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 05 2014 11:04 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, if you're going to plop down the premium-salumeria money-- and elbow aside 29 other jostling deli-shoppers-- for a fine Cuban, this is the one you want, isn't it?
He just established residency in Guatemala/was granted free agency; the showcase is on November 12.
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| Edgy MD Nov 05 2014 11:11 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Sounds like a lot of X-factors involved in recruiting that guy.
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| Ceetar Nov 05 2014 11:27 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Quite a few. I'd still do it though, from a Mets standpoint. As I understand it.. It would likely mean they can't sign any of these impact/top international free agents in 2015/2016 though. At least if I'm understanding these draft pool rule/posts correctly. The drawback to that seems to be that you can blow the budget to sign guys all at once, but then you're penalized, and most of the IFA guys are 7/2 so if you sign Moncada you miss out on this year and over-paying for more than 1 impact type guy. AND the Rays, Yankees and Red Sox can still be in on Moncada because they're already over the limit and banned from 2015-2016 guys for more than $300,000. They're already penalized and therefore have nothing to lose (besides the money) to sign Moncada.
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| Edgy MD Nov 05 2014 11:35 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Those rules are amazing. How do fans tolerate it?
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 05 2014 11:39 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Again, though... as a 19-year-old who's already held his own and then some for two years in the f*cking Serie Nacional (and dominated-- DOMINATED-- any and all lower levels at which he played), AND has projectable tools? If you don't blow the bank/take a budget-penalty for this guy-- at a position of need for the organization, no less-- well... why roll the dice on anyone, right?
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| Ceetar Nov 05 2014 11:49 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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well, 'projectable tools' perhaps is up for debate? Maybe it's over-stated. maybe he won't be able to be a SS for long, as sometimes happens as guys get bigger. And you're still competing against 29 other teams, 3 of which don't also have the drawback of losing out on the next two crops of IFA by overpaying for him. Maybe there's another SS worth it on 7/2 that you can sign AND also sign a half dozen other guys that have projectable tools. maybe that's more worth it?
fans? I'd imagine the percentage of baseball fans that know the rules for international free agents, much less to that degree, is well less than 1%.
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| Edgy MD Nov 05 2014 12:01 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't know all the rules. But I know the existence of the rules. And I know the spirit of the rules. And I know that they are anti-competitive and awful for baseball and the men and boys who play it.
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| Ceetar Nov 05 2014 12:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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the pinnacle is the NCAA of course.
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| Ashie62 Nov 06 2014 08:54 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Soccer also.
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| Ashie62 Nov 06 2014 09:13 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Alexi Ramirez?
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| Edgy MD Nov 07 2014 06:18 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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MLS is a nightmare. You might as well tell the players that they have to play for free and be thankful for the exposure it gives them
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| Frayed Knot Nov 07 2014 06:38 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Upside: - More pop (52 XBHs), more speed, and MUCH more glove than anything we've got right now. - One year deal plus an option is the right amount of commitment - plays everyday: 155+ games for five seasons running Downside: - Just turned 33 - even with a partial bounce-back this year the power is waning [17 HRs/yr for first 4 seasons; 10/per for 2012-14] and that's before you bring the stadium/league switch into consideration - he's going to make more outs that what we've got now: .302 OBA for most recent three seasons
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| Lefty Specialist Nov 07 2014 11:06 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Upside: He's not Ruben Tejada.
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| Edgy MD Nov 07 2014 11:26 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He was certainly the better player last season, but there's a lot he could learn from Ruben Tejada.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 07 2014 12:16 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Speaking of Drew.
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| Ceetar Nov 07 2014 12:41 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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maybe he's more motivated now, maybe with a real Spring Training and prep and all that he's decent? 2/15 is almost 'take a flyer' territory. edit: Not almost. That's basically what Chris Young's flyer was last year, with a lot more options to play the position.
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| Lefty Specialist Nov 07 2014 01:35 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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$2 million is 'take a flyer' territory. They signed Marlon Byrd for less.
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| Edgy MD Nov 07 2014 02:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, Chris Young was a commitment. Jose Valverde was a flyer. Bobby Abreu and Taylor Teagarden.
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| Centerfield Nov 11 2014 08:45 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Candidates:
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 11 2014 09:25 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I still think they will eventually end up with a guy like Gregorius, who could come in helps-me-helps-you kinda trade. Move Flores to 2B with Hererra in AAA (and LJ Mazzilli in AA!!!) if he flops. Cannot lose.
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| Centerfield Nov 11 2014 10:39 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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What would Gregorious cost in a trade?
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 11 2014 10:50 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I dunno. Montero? Leathersich?
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| Ashie62 Nov 11 2014 12:10 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I am willing to trade an arm to bring in the offense that Starlin Castro provides. Like
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| Centerfield Nov 11 2014 12:28 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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You would trade Syndegaard for a #7 hitter?
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| seawolf17 Nov 11 2014 12:35 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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In Ashie's defense, that #7 hitter will only be 25 years old next season, is already a three-time all-star, and will likely only get better.
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| Ashie62 Nov 11 2014 04:25 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Flip Castro and Flores if you like.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 11 2014 05:27 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Castro's only two years older than Thor, with a presidential term of solid-to-good major-league production in his rearview; I have a feeling it'll be Noah and something else pretty damn good (Conforto? Montero?).
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| Edgy MD Nov 11 2014 06:06 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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STOP TRADING SYNDERGAARD!
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| Frayed Knot Nov 11 2014 06:10 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not that I'm looking to deal him, but if folks want someone already established player under a known contract like Castro, a promising but still unproven talent like Syndergaard is not overpaying.
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| bmfc1 Nov 11 2014 06:46 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Castro isn't a "number 7 hitter" even if he would be in the 2015 Mets lineup. And if he's batting seventh, then the Mets lineup is in good shape.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 11 2014 07:46 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Young pitcher for young hitter, all day, every day. In my head, I'm doing it right now.
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| Edgy MD Nov 11 2014 08:26 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't think you mean this regardless of which pitcher and which hitter. 'Cuz they ain't equal. Castro shmastro. Let's not get seduced by his name. His team is cashing in for a reason. He's embarrassed them couple of times. He picked up a sexual assault charge a few years ago, he was thrown under the bus by his manager for only having his head in the game "80-85% of the time," and has been benched a handful of times for not hustling. He also ended the season injured, and his durability had probably been his best asset. While he's coming off possibly his best offensive season, he's not really progressing. Defensively, he brings about 1/3 of what Alexi Ramirez offers. His running game has been on the shelf. The Cubs are terrible for a reason. Let's not help them trade their way out the basement.
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| Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 11 2014 08:49 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Kind of agree. If we're going to trade Noah, I want a real masher.
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| Lefty Specialist Nov 12 2014 06:19 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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This. They want to get rid of Castro because they have replacements and he's a bit of an attitude problem. This is exactly the kind of guy you don't want to a) bring to New York, where the spotlight shines a lot brighter, and b) bring to a team with a lot of young players on the verge of competing. I would imagine that Joe Maddon will have a lot of input with Theo as to how the Cubs are constructed, and Castro doesn't play the way Maddon likes. So I'm guessing he'll be out one way or the other; I'd prefer it wasn't us overpaying for him.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2014 06:23 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm also on the Castr-NO Bandwagon (oh yes I did).
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| Frayed Knot Nov 12 2014 06:55 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The REAL challenge trade with the Cubbies would be Syndergaard for Addison Russell -- neither has set foot in MLB yet but both were Top-15 prospects last winter (Russell slightly higher) and likely will be again this year.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2014 09:28 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Chris Taylor hails from Virginia Beach. CASE CLOSED!
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2014 09:33 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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More on Taylor from BA:
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 12 2014 09:52 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Fine, then.
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| Frayed Knot Nov 12 2014 10:04 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not sure that Baez is ultimately going to be a SS - not just on SS-heavy Chicago but anywhere else.
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| HahnSolo Nov 12 2014 10:32 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Since we're talking about young SS on old franchises, would the Red Sox listen if someone inquired about Xander Bogaerts? I know he didn't light up Fenway last year, but still very young and as far as I know still very prospect-y. I suppose our young pitching might interest them.
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| Edgy MD Nov 12 2014 10:53 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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His stock fell, but I don't think they've soured on the guy.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2014 11:14 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Some guy, I guess. Seattle is apparently thinking about going all Hanley Ramirez so may have lots of shortstops to sell.
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| Edgy MD Nov 12 2014 11:22 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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How much would you pay?
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2014 11:44 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yes I think I'll be willing to swap Gee for this Taylor fellow (confession: I barely heard of this guy till 2 hours ago). I don't believe Seattle would want Muffy unless looking for a kind of versatile, non-HR hitting DH, but he'd be in my offer pile as well if necessary. Kolarek, you bet. Almost any minor leaguer not in the top 10.
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| Frayed Knot Nov 12 2014 11:50 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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New Arizona GM Dave Stewart is preemptively on record as saying that the Snakes aren't interested in any of the older NYM pitchers - no Niese, no Gee, and obviously no Colon
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| Edgy MD Nov 12 2014 11:58 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The D-Backs spent all last year deciding whether to spit or swallow, and Stewart has them still chewing.
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| batmagadanleadoff Nov 12 2014 12:27 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Me neither.
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| Edgy MD Nov 12 2014 12:45 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I suspect nobody moves on the shortstop market until the Yoan Moncada sweepstakes is over.
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| Ashie62 Nov 12 2014 04:17 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Whether it be Ramirez Castro or someone else you have to give o get. I don't believe Gee has much value. I don't understand your fascination with Syndergaard. He is not the second coming.
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| Frayed Knot Nov 12 2014 06:09 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Neither, most likely, will be the guy he's potentially being traded for.
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| Edgy MD Nov 12 2014 07:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not fascinated by anybody. I value him more highly than I value Starlin Castro.
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| Edgy MD Nov 12 2014 07:44 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Just saw a note that said Rollins blocked a trade to the Metskills.
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| Frayed Knot Nov 12 2014 09:30 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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It's not clear how far along Rollins trade talks were. In the reports I read it sounded more like the Mets were just kicking the tires when Rollins put a premature end to anything by saying he had no intention of waiving his 10/5 rights. He wouldn't have been terrible as a one-year stop-gap (depending on the price of course) but I'm kinda glad this idea got squashed before it ever took off no matter how close it might have been.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2014 09:41 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ship may well have sailed but I was into this idea last spring. Most of the opposition is emotional bullshit over those "team to beat" remarks which were totally OK by me if potentially dangerous for Rollins. Great player who could have been better than the guys we used there last season.
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| MFS62 Nov 12 2014 09:45 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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So, of all the options being identified, the guys who can hit may not be able to play short or have been moved to other positions by their current teams. We have one of those - Flores.
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| Edgy MD Nov 13 2014 06:07 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Alderson agrees that sticking with Flores is an authentic option --- one they might choose if a better alternative doesn't open up. I think most of us would agree, but that's hardly a deep commitment.
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| MFS62 Nov 13 2014 06:36 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He split his time between the brain fart and typo leagues last year. Meant Tejada. Later
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| sharpie Nov 13 2014 07:34 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That article reads like it was written during last off-season. Also had a January 30 date.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 13 2014 07:37 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yes it is an old article. You lazy guys and your lazy Rubening.
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| MFS62 Nov 13 2014 07:59 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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(slapping forehead) Didn't have to search too far. Those bastages at Yahoo sports linked to it this week like it was new. The Flores 2013 stats should have been a giveaway, too. Later
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| Vic Sage Nov 13 2014 09:02 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If they don't make a move for a leadoff-hitting SS, then who leads off for this team?
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| Centerfield Nov 13 2014 09:11 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If Murphy gets traded, Dilson Herrera looks kinda leadoffy.
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| Centerfield Nov 13 2014 10:46 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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You know, I wonder if the Reyes possibility is not just a pipe dream. They have a need at second base and have been said to have inquired about Chase Utley and Cole Hamels.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 13 2014 11:30 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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There y'are. Great eye, good hit tool... should be a good one, too. (At least until Nimmo comes up.)
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| Centerfield Nov 14 2014 07:42 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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On the other hand, maybe Reyes is not that great an idea.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2014 01:46 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Tracky sez while Xander Boegarts is unlikely, Red Sox might part with their next SS prospect, Deven Marrero, in a deal for pitching.
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| Ashie62 Dec 02 2014 06:11 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I like Gregorious better.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 02 2014 11:17 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That '14 sure does look like a hiccup in context. And those on-base skills. And those scouting reports. Hmm. Hmm.
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| Edgy MD Dec 03 2014 12:54 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Seems to suggest not-readiness, though, don't it? He'd be behind Matt Reynolds.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 03 2014 01:11 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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There's safety-- or, at least, more safety-- in numbers. More potential, anyway. Or, at least, potential potential.
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| Edgy MD Dec 03 2014 01:17 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Sure, but at what price comes that redundancy? AT WHAT PRICE?!!
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2014 01:42 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Another possibility from Boston's minor leagues: Garin "Older Brother" Cecchini. Not a SS, but an infield (3B/2B) prospect and potential "good fit." Definitely blocked now that Panda is in Boston.
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| Edgy MD Dec 03 2014 02:05 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Oooh, add Chase d'Arnaud and let the two brothers compete for slots. Should create some real bitter competitive tension in the clubhouse.
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| Edgy MD Dec 05 2014 08:27 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Twittererer says Gregorius has just become a Yankee.
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| Vic Sage Dec 05 2014 08:29 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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shit
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| MFS62 Dec 05 2014 08:31 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I wonder what Sterling's home run call will be. Gregorius is gorgeous? Later
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| Ceetar Dec 05 2014 08:39 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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provided he hits one.
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| Edgy MD Dec 05 2014 08:48 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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| metsmarathon Dec 05 2014 08:49 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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it is high. it is far. it is gone!!! didi did it! a home run from gorgeous, gregarious, gregori...uh... the shortstop settles under it for the second out.
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| Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 05 2014 09:09 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The Tigers have dealt pitcher Robbie Ray to the Arizona Diamondback in exchange for New York Yankees pitcher Shane Green, Fox Sports baseball writers Ken Rosenthal and Jon Morosi reported Friday, citing sources.
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| d'Kong76 Dec 05 2014 09:12 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I guess when a team needs a shortstop, they go out
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2014 09:13 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Deal looks like Shane Greene to the Tigers, Gregorious to the MFYs, LHP Robbie Ray to the Dbaggs.
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| Edgy MD Dec 05 2014 09:17 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I get the idea that the bloom was off the rose from the Mets point of view. He got measurably out-OPS+'d by Tejada last year (OPS was .001 higher, but in Arizona), and he's the same age and just as out of options.
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| seawolf17 Dec 05 2014 09:23 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Didi Gregorius sucks, kids. I'm thrilled he's a Yankee.
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| Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 05 2014 09:42 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Robbie Ray was THE key to the Fister deal -- which has emerged as one of Dombrowski's big -- and rare -- blunders.
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| seawolf17 Dec 05 2014 09:49 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Because we never know what they're actually demanding, just whatever Beat Writer X needs to say to sell papers/get clicks.
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| Lefty Specialist Dec 05 2014 09:56 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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This. The four most common words Yankee fans will utter in 2015 will be 'He's no Derek Jeter'.
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| Ceetar Dec 05 2014 10:03 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Because Sandy does his due diligence and talks to every team about potential fits, and every team asks for Syndergaard. Some teams call Sandy once a day just to ask about him. I doubt Sandy's had a conversation with another team where they haven't asked about Syndergaard.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2014 10:06 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Fans will say that, but I'd be surprised if it were so. Not because I think he's great but because his speed and range will be shocking, and that he's still young enough to improve. Trying to take emotion out of this this a good deal for the MFYs.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 05 2014 10:15 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He's okay. Like, Tejadan-brand okay. If he improves a little more, he'll be pretty good.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2014 10:24 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm hoping the Mets are aiming higher myself, but yes, that's what I'm sayin'.
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| Ceetar Dec 05 2014 10:32 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I mean, I'd be surprised if he didn't put up the numbers Jeter did last year. He might not put up the numbers Tejada did though, which is why the Mets weren't really interested.
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| Edgy MD Dec 05 2014 10:45 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Rubin just reported on Metly disinterest in Cabrera, who to me, was --- if not obviously better --- at least distinctive enough alternative from Tejada and potentially nettable with a minor league deal.
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| Ashie62 Dec 05 2014 12:14 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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At any rate Digregorious is off the board...cheaply..
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| Frayed Knot Dec 05 2014 01:18 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Gregorius's biggest flaw: his 490 career OPS vs LHP [.184/.257/.233] over 180 PAs]
That's some pretty low hanging fruit right there. It occurs to me that this is at least the second NYY/DET/ARZ three-way trade in recent years. The deal that sent Granderson to the Bronx involved the same clubs.
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| Edgy MD Dec 05 2014 01:42 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't think he'd feel cheap if the Mets gave up Familia for him.
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| Ashie62 Dec 05 2014 05:49 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Agreed
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| Frayed Knot Dec 07 2014 06:00 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Cubs announce that they will NOT be trading Starlin Castro this winter.
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| Edgy MD Dec 08 2014 08:17 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Luis Sardinas, #7 prospect for the Texas Rangers. Some reports say the Rangers might be interested in one of the Mets' excess pitchers.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 08 2014 08:18 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Like it. Gee for Sardinas. GET IT DONE SANDY
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| Edgy MD Dec 08 2014 08:28 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Worth noting is that the "on-base tool" is based on reports and numbers in the lower minors. It didn't show up this year, though, with an .021 OBP-BA difference in 81 games at AA and AAA, and an .042 differential in 40 MLB games.
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| A Boy Named Seo Dec 08 2014 09:01 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Heyman sez we're interested in 27-year old, power-hitting shortstop Jung-Ho Kang (39 HR's in Korea last year). Sounds like a mythical beast to me.
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| Centerfield Dec 08 2014 09:07 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Big leg kick. Fly ball hitter. I see a lot of balls dying on the Citi warning track.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 08 2014 09:16 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Word is there's some doubt his glove makes it as SS so it could wind up as another Flores.
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| A Boy Named Seo Dec 08 2014 09:27 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If he hit 15 home runs and kicked like a Rockette, I'd be all about him.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 08 2014 10:08 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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15 Long Struck Dongs is closer to his historic norms; even including last year, he's averaging about 21.7 HR per season over the last six (since his "breakout"). Looks like an interesting skill set, with the rate stats (last year's absurd career high aside) looking good-not-great; signing him probably creates even more of a surplus at 2B/3B, though, than it does fill a shortstop hole.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 08 2014 10:15 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Long struck dongs lololllolollollool
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| A Boy Named Seo Dec 08 2014 10:42 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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NO MORE YANKEE HIS WAKNEE! The Donger need FOOD!
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 08 2014 02:24 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Sounds like a super-villain to me! 
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| Frayed Knot Dec 08 2014 02:55 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Below is a John Sickels report on Sardinas from April 2014 so it doesn't include anything from this past year. Sickels has the Rangers report up next on his docket (with the Mets to follow) so we'll probably have a (briefer) update by the end of the week. ** Sardinas was a big-dollar signing, earning $1,200,000 out of Venezuela in 2009. He was considered a very advanced defensive player for his age with a chance to hit once he matured physically. Injuries struck almost immediately: a broken finger limited him to just 26 games in the Arizona Rookie League in 2010, and a more severe shoulder dislocation kept him to just 14 more contests in '11. He hit well both years (.311/.363/.350 and .308/.367/.385), showing contact hitting skills and good speed with 10 steals combined, but obviously needing to prove his durability. Shoulder problems continued to nag him in '12 but he played 96 games for Low-A Hickory, hitting .291/.346/.356 with 32 steals, 29 walks, and 52 strikeouts in 374 at-bats. He finally played a full season in '13, seeing 128 games between High-A Myrtle Beach (.298/.358/.360 in 383 at-bats) and Double-A Frisco (.258/.286/.311 in 135 at-bats) w/32 steals. Listed at 6-1, 170, Sardinas is a switch-hitter (b: 5/16/93). His best offensive tool is speed: he could steal 20 or more bases per season if he gets on base enough. Alas, that could be a problem, at least in the short run. Although he was an effective contact hitter at lower levels, his complete lack of power has been a serious issue in Double-A and his production at that level has been inadequate. He is young enough to gain some strength and improve a great deal, but it hasn't happened yet. His defense is well ahead of his offense at this point. His arm is very strong, his range is above average, and he has quick hands. He'll botch routine plays occasionally but he also reaches balls most infielders can't touch. With more experience he should be an excellent defender. It is likely that Sardinas will have a long major league career, but the shape of that career is uncertain. If he maxes out his hitting skills, he could be an All-Star. If his hitting improves somewhat but not to the maximal projection, he could still be a long-term regular due to his glovework and speed contributions. If the bat remains inadequate, he could still be a useful utility player. **
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| Edgy MD Dec 08 2014 05:20 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not saying that doesn't sound like a character with as much value as a Dillon Gee, but it seems questionable whether he's ahead of Reynolds at this point. He certainly doesn't seem like he's ready to push aside Tejada and Flores and establish himself as the go-to option in 2015.
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| Ashie62 Dec 08 2014 05:52 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Its like Gee is blacklisted.
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| batmagadanleadoff Dec 08 2014 11:43 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Nah. He's an alien from the planet Rigel VII.  "We're Gung Ho for Jung-Ho".
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| Centerfield Dec 09 2014 07:11 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Saw a blip this morning on how the Mets might be willing to trade Noah for a guy on Texas. Hey Sandy...
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 09 2014 07:21 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If they trade Syndergaard, I want them to at least get someone as good as Victor Zambrano.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 09 2014 07:22 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not gonna squash the Mets for dangling Syndergaard. Let's see where it could lead.
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| A Boy Named Seo Dec 09 2014 09:01 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Doyers apparently wiling to trade Dee Gordon cause he can't get on base. Sandy would probably not be in love for the same reason, BUT...
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| Edgy MD Dec 09 2014 09:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He could be a shortstop-playing version of Eric Young --- the leadoff hitter who bats ninth.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 09 2014 09:31 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Another reason he'd be Eric Young, SS edition: he'd be a "leadoff hitter" that isn't actually, like, a good leadoff hitter.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 10 2014 06:51 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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While a .326 OBA is hardly great for a leadoff hitter, in this current era it's hardly bad and it's up from .280 in 2012 and .314 in '13
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| seawolf17 Dec 10 2014 07:12 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That's what bothers me about a lot of this. I'm all in on Flores for '15. Let's see what happens. If we're in contention, and an Ian Desmond-type becomes available, then let's talk. But trading Thor for another team's project is dumb.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 11 2014 07:11 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ken Davidoff in the Post does some detective work on Kang the Conquerer
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| Edgy MD Dec 11 2014 07:50 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Knight was the pilot of this looping biplane of emotional fury.
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| Centerfield Dec 11 2014 08:05 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Seems like the 39 HR's was more of a career year than the norm.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2014 08:13 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Just curious. Did you actually remember that or just search it? Seriously, I'm kind of worried of the effect the Google has had on my memory. It's almost as if I don't bother to recall anything anymore.
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| Edgy MD Dec 11 2014 08:36 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I remembered a spot start that included a recovery after a rough first inning. I did not remember it turning into one of the excruciating LaRussa/Manuel let's-bunt-our-way-out-of-any-and-all-rallies wars of attrition.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 11 2014 09:16 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Do coaches have... um... a different function in the Korean game? Also... I don't know how much better the kid's attitude/defensive game/ability to wake up in time for practice is going to get, as the kid is old enough to run for Congress.
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| A Boy Named Seo Dec 11 2014 09:26 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Maybe "Mr. Baseball" has tainted my perception of stuff, but how common is diving in the Asian game?
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| Frayed Knot Dec 13 2014 05:56 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not sure, but remember it was back when Kaz Matsui got here that we learned of the oddity that Japanese infielders rarely played balls to the backhand (or at least that was the story at the time). Anyway, Mr. Kang is to be posted by his Korean Lg team on Monday with the Mets, Giants, & A's being listed as the ones with the most interest. As mentioned before, Korean players become available via the 'old' posting system that governed the early generation of Japanese players until those rules were updated a few seasons back. So interested teams will need to win a bidding process (with all that money going to the club) for the right to negotiate a deal with the player. The article announcing this on mlb.com warns that the 1.189 OPS that Kang put up this past season [39 HRs, 115 RBI in 116 games, and a career .298/.382/.502] comes from a league where offense is much more plentiful than in MLB. Runs scored in the Korean league were 11.4 per game combined this past year as compared to 8.2 in MLB 2014. Even during the height of the steroid era in MLB teams runs scored topped out at just over 10 Runs/G And then there's the question as to whether teams view him as a SS or 2B
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2014 07:59 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, the Mets have an incumbent at second base whose time is almost certain to end after 2015, if not before.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 13 2014 08:49 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Sure, but the idea this winter is that we need a SS.
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| Edgy MD Dec 13 2014 09:52 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't remember that, but in Kang's highlight reel, the first defensive highlight they show there is him going into the hole and nailing a runner going from second to third. Nice, but his refusal to backhand the play gets him so turned around that third base was his only option.
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| Edgy MD Dec 13 2014 11:14 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Reports suggest the bidding is expected to be in the (reasonable, to my eyes) $5-10 million range, with the player seeking (again, reportedly) four years and $24 million.
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2014 05:51 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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My thinking was that Kang could play shortstop in 2015, and if it turns out he's better suited to second base, he could move there in 2016.
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| seawolf17 Dec 14 2014 05:57 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'd prefer they went after Kodos.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 14 2014 06:36 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I think the emphasis needs to be: if you're going to get a SS, get a SS rather than someone pretending to be one. But as we're finding out on this great SS odyssey this off season, there are lots of choices out there but all of them have flaws in some way in the same way that the incumbent choices do.
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| Ashie62 Dec 14 2014 12:02 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Kang sounds a lot like Kaz. I'll pass.
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| Edgy MD Dec 14 2014 01:01 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Kang may be risk-intensive and a defensive question mark like Kaz, and a shortstop who may turn into a second baseman when the exchange rate is applied, but he comes with a somewhat different skill set --- chunky slugger whomping skills versus slick-and-skinny slap-and-run skills.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 14 2014 08:47 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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What the fark's all this you-can-always-move-him-because-there'll-be-a-vacancy-at-second shipoopi?
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| Ceetar Dec 15 2014 11:47 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Last I checked prospects don't always pan out. But then, sometimes you just sign the guy you have to a nice deal and don't worry about it. How about "You can always DH him when the NL adopts it"
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 15 2014 12:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The National League has avoided the DH for over 40 years. What makes you think that will change in the next few years?
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| Ceetar Dec 15 2014 12:10 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Because it's time. Pitchers don't take hitting seriously. They're ever looking for more ways to specialize them, much the way they don't have them hit in early Spring or early minor leagues, since they feel it's secondary (more like tertiary, at best) Interleague play is here anyway and the silliness of have two sets of teams play with different rules is that much more apparent. Oh, and a new commish may have different thoughts on the matter. By rule, it could still happen if 2015 if he feels like it.
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| d'Kong76 Dec 15 2014 12:15 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Is there a full moon tonight?
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| Ceetar Dec 15 2014 12:18 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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next full moon is January 5th. Got a Blue one in July.
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| d'Kong76 Dec 15 2014 12:21 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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My wife's birthday, good to know!
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2014 01:45 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Lowrie signs with Astros. I don't think he was all that sexy but is kinda affordable.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 15 2014 02:13 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I was just about to bring Lowrie up as Richard Justice had him going to the Mets on his prediction sheet.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2014 07:35 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Twitter on fire again following reports that Mets have talked Tulo with the Rockies -- and that "no chance" for a deal has become "a 5% chance."
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| batmagadanleadoff Dec 19 2014 07:49 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Can somebody explain to me, the difference between 0 and 5%? Not in real math and stuff, but in MetSpeak.
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| Ceetar Dec 19 2014 07:59 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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well, not MetSpeak. ReporterSpeak? Who said the 5%?
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| d'Kong76 Dec 19 2014 08:05 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Show us the MATH!
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2014 08:29 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I dunno. Keith Hernandez prior to the night of June 15 was 0%. Mike Piazza once he was flipped to the Marlins was, like, 20%. I think that's what that means. I should say though. If I'm the Rockies I'm looking at the Padres and Dodgers loading up, the Giants as defending WS champs, and Tulowitzski's lousy recent health record and future obligations, I'm a motivated seller. Very much like the Padres got Kemp, the Mets oughta be able to get this guy if they want him badly enough.
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| TheOldMole Dec 19 2014 11:04 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Didn't the Padres kill the Kemp deal? My thought, deGrom makes Syndergaard expendable, Tulo when healthy a game changer.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 19 2014 11:42 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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No. They questioned it after seeing the results of his physical (arthritis in both hips) but finally made it official last night.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 19 2014 11:56 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not sure where the "5%" started, though at least some of this story began with Heyman.
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| Edgy MD Dec 23 2014 10:25 AM Hope for Flores |
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Trying to adapt to the Flores-at-shortstop outlook, which would be a more enjoyable experiment if so many weren't almost rooting for it to fail.
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| Ceetar Dec 23 2014 10:28 AM Re: Hope for Flores |
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Honestly my biggest concern is that he won't hit. big prospect/scout guys seem to almost take this for granted.
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| Edgy MD Dec 23 2014 10:39 AM Re: Hope for Flores |
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I'm trying to remember who it was that said he just worried about finding hitters. That he could shake a tree and 10 glove guys would fall out.
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| Ceetar Dec 23 2014 11:09 AM Re: Hope for Flores |
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A lot of it's timing I think. People don't notice the "didn't get to it" errors as much. and if he doesn't make a game-altering one that's directly attributed to the loss, he might have time to find his stroke with the bat. And of course, if the Mets are 28-10 no one's gonna talk about his fielding much.
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| Zvon Dec 23 2014 11:19 AM Re: Hope for Flores |
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Like Ceets, I think if we go with Flores it's Mr. T for late D. Not that T has a great glove but he's better than Flores. Flores will be what he is. He won't suck. I consider the combination "serviceable".
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| Frayed Knot Dec 23 2014 11:34 AM Re: Hope for Flores |
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Only if the other team is willing to eat a bunch of Hope's contract, otherwise no way.
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| batmagadanleadoff Dec 23 2014 02:22 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Megdal on Tulo and the Mets. Guess how many paragraphs you have to read before encountering the word "Madoff"?
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/m ... tulowitzki
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| Ceetar Dec 23 2014 03:31 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I found it (finance is a code word for Madoff) in the third paragraph and stopped there.
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| d'Kong76 Dec 23 2014 03:42 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Unless, of course, his hip falls off and then he'll be a six year albatross around their necks.
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| batmagadanleadoff Dec 23 2014 07:35 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The same could be said about David Wright.
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| batmagadanleadoff Dec 23 2014 07:37 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Or Clayton Kershaw.
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| batmagadanleadoff Dec 23 2014 07:38 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Or Giancarlo Stanton.
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| d'Kong76 Dec 23 2014 08:48 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yup©, I suppose.
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| Edgy MD Dec 23 2014 10:21 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The problem there is that he uses "would" when the more honest term is "could" or "might."
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| batmagadanleadoff Dec 24 2014 06:57 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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You don't think the Mets would qualify as a contender with Tulowitzki? Yet you predicted the Mets would win about 100 games in last year's prediction thread.
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| Edgy MD Dec 24 2014 12:47 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I think they qualify as a contender now. But the future is unknown.
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| Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 26 2014 10:05 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He waited until the fourth paragraph to mention Madoff? He's slipping.
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| Edgy MD Dec 27 2014 12:50 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Starlin Castro detained for questioning in connection to a nightclub shooting in the Dominican Republic. Six injured.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 27 2014 02:29 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The update to that link specifically says that Castro was not detained, but that's also coming from within his camp so who knows.
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| Lefty Specialist Dec 27 2014 03:12 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, maybe now we can get him without giving up too much. :)
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2014 03:26 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Sure, why not? As we learned with Francisco Rodriguez, Citi Field has a jail cell.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 27 2014 04:40 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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See, the key for me is, six injured... but none critically.
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| Edgy MD Dec 27 2014 05:46 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The denials were not part of the story when the link went up. But that was and is the lede. I imagine what constitutes being detained for questioning and voluntarily submitting to questioning is ambiguous.
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| MFS62 Dec 27 2014 06:32 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Forget baseball. He'll fit right in on the Oakland Raiders. Later
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| Lefty Specialist Dec 27 2014 06:48 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Kinda lends a whole new meaning to 'he's got a gun for an arm'.
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| Edgy MD Dec 27 2014 11:44 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Late reports suggest he's still being treated as a suspect.
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| Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 28 2014 09:15 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Castro seems like nothing but trouble.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 28 2014 09:50 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That's what south Florida keeps saying.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 28 2014 09:54 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Alley-oop, maybe, but this still gets me out of my seat for an oh-DAMN.
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| Edgy MD Dec 30 2014 09:21 PM Ben |
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A lot of heat out there in response to Mark Simon at ESPN speculating that Ben Zobrist is the shortstop that Sandy's been waiting to become available all along.
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| metirish Dec 30 2014 09:35 PM Re: Ben |
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Solid, durable super-utility guy 34
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2014 09:37 PM Re: Ben |
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Would be an upgrade on Muffy but would come at a cost to acquire. Not sure if he's really a ss. I mean if he was he would be, yes?
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| Frayed Knot Dec 30 2014 09:38 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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So the (not yet official) signing of Asdrubal Cabrera by Tampa Bay has the tongues of NYM watchers a-wagging about the availability of either Yunel Escobar and/or Ben Zobrist.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 30 2014 09:41 PM Re: Ben Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 31 2014 06:27 AM |
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Avi wuz here
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| Frayed Knot Dec 30 2014 09:44 PM Re: Ben |
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Although he and wifey, a Christian signer apparently, have a book out that talks about "the importance of his faith, life, and athletic career" and "gives fans a first look into the heart of an athlete whose talent and devotion to God, family, and baseball make him one of the most loveable figures in the Major League today" ... so maybe those parties won't be as wild as we hope.
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| metirish Dec 30 2014 09:47 PM Re: Ben |
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I would say he would be an asset on a team with designs of making the playoffs etc. Mets are such a team I would hope.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 30 2014 09:50 PM Re: Ben |
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 30 2014 11:27 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Oh. OH.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 30 2014 11:48 PM Re: Ben Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 31 2014 09:16 AM |
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[Meeeeerge!]
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| seawolf17 Dec 31 2014 04:49 AM Re: Ben |
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The Rays are smart. He won't come cheap. But he's EXACTLY what we need. He's Joe McEwing, except he can actually hit.
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2014 05:47 AM Re: Ben |
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He's in his free agent walk year, correct? I would imagine that if the Mets traded for him, it would be as a one-year rental. If the Mets really are in go-for-it mode, then getting a one-year shortstop isn't such a bad idea. I have no idea what the Mets would have to give up to get Zobrist. I imagine it would be less than Noah Syndergaard, but more than Dillon Gee.
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2014 05:52 AM Re: Ben |
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Also, alphabetically speaking, Don Zimmer has been the last Met on the list since April 11, 1962. Ben Zobrist would end that very long streak.
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| Edgy MD Dec 31 2014 06:13 AM Re: Ben |
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You haven't partied until you've partied with an athlete whose talent and devotion to God, family, and baseball make him one of the most loveable figures in the Major League today. I'll merge this into the shorty stop thread.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 31 2014 06:25 AM Re: Ben |
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Yes. Zobrist's 2015 season will be the second of two option years (TB already picked up the option at season's end) that were tacked onto the end of a four year contract dating back to 2010 and it's not like he's in any position to be able to force any extension beyond that. Nor should the Mets be anxious to give an in-advance extension to a soon-to-be 34 y/o and so I assume if a trade went down that they'd simply let the season play out and take things from there.
Well, hell, if that isn't the last piece of evidence that this needs to get done immediately then we might as well all just pack it in!
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| Edgy MD Dec 31 2014 07:09 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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So, what do you think we're talking about here? Plawecki and Campbell? Do the Rays need one of the Mets pitchers?
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2014 07:17 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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It would be nice if it could be Gee plus someone else, but I have no idea what Tampa might want.
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| Vic Sage Dec 31 2014 07:25 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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i wouldn't trade a young, good-hitting catching prospect for an aging utility guy on a 1-year deal, even a very good utility guy. Zobrist would be an upgrade over Murphy at 2b, but since his range is no greater than Flores', i'd like to see what Flores greater upside can produce (as long as we're not going to get a good, established SS). If we traded for Zobrist, and then traded Murphy for Castro (for example), i'd be fine with that.
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| Edgy MD Dec 31 2014 07:35 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, that price would be high. But since every team in baseball can use a guy like Zobrist, he's perhaps going to be bid up. And if that happens, the Mets may be better off giving Eric Campbell a Zobrist jersey and calling the bluffs of any fans on ledges.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 31 2014 07:36 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I agree. Good catching prospects, even if they're still just prospects, don't grow on trees and giving one up for a one-year player isn't a good idea IMO.
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| Vic Sage Dec 31 2014 07:53 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Gee for Zobrist makes sense to me; if it's not enough for TB, then pass.
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| Edgy MD Dec 31 2014 08:00 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Tampa's rotation:
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 31 2014 09:32 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Gee's a 29-year-old who's missed significant parts of the season in 2 of the last 3 years, and has never put up a traditionally good-- like, above-league-average-- season. Zobrist, while 34, is a guy who plays credible defense at 4-5 positions, including both middle infield slots, AND OPS-es .750 or so in down years. And, oh yeah, he's severely underpriced. Pardon my French, but zat offer is skull-fucking ridiculous, mon ami. You see if they'd take Gee-plus-Plawecki or Niese-plus-Rosario-plus-Puello; you think long and hard when they come back with Plawecki-and-Montero, and you hope it settles somewhere in between.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 31 2014 10:48 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Gee did have a terrific 'year' if you count it from June '13 through May '14, and while he's had injuries they've not been of the structural arm variety (I'd be more leery of trading for Niese if I were other teams for that very reason - lost velocity, etc.). And do keep in mind that this is for all of one year of Zobrist and it's the year he turns 34 (does he even get 600 ABs on this team?).
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 01 2015 10:36 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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No, but seriously, look at this Moncada guy. The Good Face, built like he should be in our Superhero Tourney, that bat speed, that nimbleness around the bag... hell, just look at the footspeed.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 01 2015 11:10 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Agreed that he should be looked at, but he may not be a SS and he's almost certainly not going to be a 2015 solution even if he is.
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| Edgy MD Jan 02 2015 11:54 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Marlins acquired Dan Haren in the Dee Gordon trade. Dan Haren said he insists on playing with a west coast team or he will retire. He even declined the Fish's invite to a press conference following the deal.
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| Vic Sage Jan 02 2015 10:12 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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the Mets don't need an excellent utility guy for 1 year; they need a SS for the next decade. If you're ok with Zobrist's D at SS, then lets just go with Flores and see how he develops there. He's got at least as much range as Zobrist at SS and is more than a decade younger, significantly cheaper, and his minor league power shows upside, whereas Zobrist's power is declining. I like Zobrist as a super utility guy for a contending team, not as a starting SS for a young, building team.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 03 2015 01:05 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I like Zobrist the exact same way, homes. It's just that I think he could be that for us, this year.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 04 2015 06:21 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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This is a fantasy-based assessment but gets to my point on Flores: He can hit, and the Mets need hitters. Also raises the point of his value if Wright is stinky again.
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| A Boy Named Seo Jan 04 2015 07:40 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Internet commenters, I know, but that's a violently divided audience on Wilmer. Makes me want to tune in!
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| Edgy MD Jan 04 2015 08:23 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I like the notion that the Mets can/should look for something between two and half months and two and a half seasons out of Flores at short, all the while believing that they can get a more well/rounded answer out of Reynolds/Cecchini/Rosario, while Flores remains a future investment at other positions around the infield --- insurance against Wright's shoulder not healing, Herrera not developing, Duda becoming mired in his enigmatic Dudaness.
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| d'Kong76 Jan 05 2015 10:30 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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More of the same...
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| Ashie62 Jan 09 2015 09:06 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Jurickson Profar to begin throwing.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 10 2015 12:38 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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So the answer to the question as to which of Zobrist or Escobar the Rays would trade appears to be: BOTH!! ... and in the same deal no less. The SF Chronicle reports that a swap to send both middle-IFers to the A's is nearing completion with Oakland sending catcher John Jaso eastward along with two minor leaguers. And the Korean SS Jung-Ho Kang appears to be on the verge of a four-year deal with Pittsburgh who had previously won his negotiating rights. The two sides have until Jan 20th to complete a deal.
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| Edgy MD Jan 10 2015 01:18 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Anybody who boos Flores on opening day gets such a noogie.
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| G-Fafif Jan 11 2015 08:25 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ken Rosenthal reports Mets were approached to take part in 3 way deal that would've landed Ian Desmond, Ben Zobrist and Yunel Escobar in DC & two top Mets prospects (of 3) in St. Pete. Mets needed to give up Noah S. Desmond has 1 year left to FA.
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| Fman99 Jan 11 2015 08:37 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Good for them. Noah S. and another top prospect for one year of Ian Desmond is too steep.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 12 2015 06:33 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, that's the kind of deal you'd pull the trigger on if you're coming off an 89 win season and just know that you're one player away.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 12 2015 06:50 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The Rays did get something like what they were looking for from us-- the package the A's gave up made it seem a pretty atypical Beane trade, at least on its face.
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| Ceetar Jan 12 2015 07:16 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Maybe it might've been. until the A's jumped in. My biggest concern with Sandy is that sometimes he seems aghast at current market prices. I agree in this case that this wasn't a good deal to overpay on, but at some point he's going to have to and I hope he's prepared to do so
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| Edgy MD Jan 12 2015 07:22 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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"I'm building a great organization and people are going to overpay me for my assets." --- S. Alderson
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| Lefty Specialist Jan 12 2015 07:59 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHTUDwc1fd8
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| Edgy MD Jan 12 2015 08:31 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Desmond is a little bit of fool's gold, isn't he? I mean, 24 homers from a shortstop is great, but he's not doing much else if his OPS+ is 103. Flores can do that, I think.
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| Ceetar Jan 12 2015 08:37 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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well, that's the low end of a 3-year arc and 103 OPS+ for a SS with at least a decent glove is pretty valuable, but yeah, it's not like Desmond has a long history of being awesome.
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| Edgy MD Jan 12 2015 08:53 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Certainly pretty valuable.
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| themetfairy Jan 12 2015 10:37 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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How could anyone boo this face?
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| A Boy Named Seo Jan 12 2015 11:13 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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"What, me worry?"
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| Frayed Knot Jan 12 2015 05:03 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I heard exactly One WFAN call today - it was a guy complaining about the Mets not making this [three-way Ian Desmond] deal.
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| Edgy MD Jan 12 2015 06:48 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't get that "lying" business at all.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 12 2015 09:27 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, according to the caller anyway, the Mets [u:riswe01s]promised[/u:riswe01s] that this is their year and that they'd go all out to make it happen.
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| Edgy MD Jan 13 2015 07:25 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm so entitled, I demand the Mets consummate deals I wouldn't even like ten minutes after they happened.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 13 2015 09:54 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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WHY DIDN'T THESE INTRANSIGIENT BASTIDS DO THIS DEAL I NEVER KNEW EXISTED???/?//?
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| smg58 Jan 13 2015 11:50 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well doesn't the fact that nobody on the Mets is saying anything imply that they're not telling the truth? Huh?
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 13 2015 04:35 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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WHY DON'T YOU TELL US THE TRUTH, LIARS !1! TELL ME THE TRUTH SO I CAN YELL AT YOU ABOUT THE TRUTH INSTEAD
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| Ashie62 Jan 13 2015 06:30 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Flores wil do a lot better than this new template.
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| Edgy MD Jan 13 2015 08:37 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'd send you a private message, but who knows where to find private messages in this layout?
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| Frayed Knot Jan 14 2015 07:00 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Click on a user's name and 'Send Private Message' is one of the choices you'll have.
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| Edgy MD Jan 14 2015 07:22 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Mostly joking.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 14 2015 11:47 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Nobody else here is gonna post this one, so here goes:
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/m ... usal-spend
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| Ceetar Jan 14 2015 11:53 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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heh, didn't even have to read beyond the title this time.
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| Edgy MD Jan 14 2015 11:57 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm just not sure why somebody needed to post it. Are you saying that it says what your feelings are toward the non-Desmond deal?
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 14 2015 12:05 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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No, I didn't say that. But the piece does line up with my sentiments on the Mets ability to get a high priced player. It's a well balanced article, probably the best piece out there, to date, on that potential Mets-Desmond deal. Because let's be honest, you can't talk credibly about the Mets having to dole out that kind of money to get that kind of a player without referencing the financial mess that shall not be named here.
Because no one would've posted that article if I didn't. There's a solid contingent on this board that acts like headless chickens at the mere sight of a Megdal piece.
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| Edgy MD Jan 14 2015 12:11 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Please get the chip off your shoulder and stop with the name-calling. Please, please, to St. Lucie and back, please. I will give you such a big hug. In public. Maybe even a manly European smack on the cheek, too.
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| Ceetar Jan 14 2015 12:13 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Because they're all the same piece. Read one, read them all. Yes, some people attribute every move or non-move to the Mets maybe not having money.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 14 2015 12:42 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I've met the guy. He seems perfectly reasonable and charming, his daughter's like an anime character-- unbelievably adorable-- and he doesn't scan like Baseball Ahab or nothin'.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 14 2015 01:26 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 14 2015 06:00 PM |
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Just for starters:
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| Centerfield Jan 14 2015 01:44 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I never got the feeling that the Desmond upcoming negotiations were the holdback. It is future Cy Young Award Winner Noah Syndegaard.
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| Benjamin Grimm Jan 14 2015 02:05 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I can totally understand not wanting to deal Syndergaard for only one guaranteed year of Desmond. Where Megdal says that the Mets could have simply requested a negotiating window, he neglects to mention that those windows are the exception, and most deals (for whatever reason) don't include them. You can't assume that the Mets had that option. And you can't assume that it was money that prevented this deal from happening; it's just one of several potential reasons.
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| Ceetar Jan 14 2015 02:09 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Not just that, but that the Nationals got a deal they wanted while Sandy was negotiating, however tepidly. The other 29 teams are doing things too.
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| d'Kong76 Jan 14 2015 02:17 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He writes the same article a lot, guess that's why he's not at a great
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| Benjamin Grimm Jan 14 2015 02:22 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Hmmmm....
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| G-Fafif Jan 14 2015 02:36 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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This one's fun, too, by Jonathan Bernhardt for The Guardian. (He used to write for Sports on Earth, where I honestly don't remember anything with this much zazz to it.)
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| Edgy MD Jan 14 2015 02:50 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That's written like it's coming from an English guy.
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| Ceetar Jan 14 2015 03:42 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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yeah. The guy answers his own question and doesn't realize it.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 14 2015 06:15 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Those situations are rare because the clubs can't simply make them happen unilaterally. Both the other team AND the player have to agree to it in advance and then an agreement needs to be reached. And seeing as how Desmond has already turned down a lengthy and lucrative extension from his current team (the only one he's ever played for and one that's in the midst of the best run in its history) it certainly seems that he's intent on trying FA-gency. The Santana case was unusual in that Johan was a rare pre-FA player who had a contract giving him full no-trade protection which in turn gave him full veto power over any trade unless he got the contract he wanted in advance.
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| G-Fafif Jan 15 2015 12:17 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ken Rosenthal would like the Mets to find a way to obtain Ian Desmond without giving up Noah Syndergaard.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2015 05:17 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'd give up Muffy & Gee for Dezzy.
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| Ceetar Jan 15 2015 05:53 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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yeah, that's sorta a gimme. Of course, I'm not sure the Nationals want either player.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2015 06:07 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Muffy & Vic Black? They presumably need a replacement for Clippard.
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| Edgy MD Jan 15 2015 06:39 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Go all-in to go all-out!
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| Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2015 07:00 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If the Mets trade Murphy for Desmond, and Desmond becomes the shortstop, then who plays second base? Flores, I'd assume. This trade then wouldn't be about replacing Flores in the lineup, but Murphy.
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| Edgy MD Jan 15 2015 07:43 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I thinky people don't find Flores so unthinkable at second.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2015 08:19 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That's been my plan from the start. Not Desmond, necessarily, but some shortstop, paid for with Muffy's $$, allowing Flores and/or Hererra if necessary, to play there. It make a lot of sense for the Mets. I'm not sure why the Nats would do this however. They are weird.
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| metirish Jan 15 2015 09:00 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Desmond is a nice player but fuck me the $$$ amount being thrown out there is silly.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 15 2015 09:03 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, but that carbon-centric conversation wouldn't be anywhere near as absurd as all these posts in this thread premised on the delusion that the Mets can afford the eight-figure a year Desmond on a long-term contract. Same with Tulo. All the nitpicking about Tulo's age and durability and whatever his other flaws might be ... as if the Mets could even afford Tulo in his present condition, let alone if he was younger and healthier. This is like me telling you that the reason I'm not gonna purchase the Dallas Cowboys this coming weekend is mainly because I'd rather not have to spend so much of my time in Texas.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2015 09:11 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't think an extension is realistic given what we know about how the Wilpons are spending the $$, but maybe not out of the question down the road, particularly if the deal works out.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 15 2015 09:18 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Interesting. Me personally, I suspect the Mets have to ditch both Murphy and Gee just to be able to afford the 2015 payroll.
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| d'Kong76 Jan 15 2015 10:50 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Do you really believe "the plan" is go into 2015/16 and still spend even less and less?
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 15 2015 11:04 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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To be fair, they'd have to ditch both just to be at/about the same payroll, owing to arbies/other salary increases.
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| d'Kong76 Jan 15 2015 11:06 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Guess they'll have to dump more than those two then.
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| Edgy MD Jan 15 2015 11:11 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, we certainly know Gee is on the market, and he may well be exchanged for minor league talent/salary relief. There's been little such buzz about Murphy, however. I tend to think that if the team could swap Muh or Flores for an equal-value shortstop, they would, but that deal has yet to be found.
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| d'Kong76 Jan 15 2015 11:19 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Should probably have started a Wilpon's Finances in 2015
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| Ceetar Jan 15 2015 11:30 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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No need. Unless every thread mentions it we're letting them off easy.
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| Centerfield Jan 15 2015 11:59 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm intrigued by the end of Rosenthal's article. What can the commissioner do if the owners are not putting forth a large budget team?
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2015 12:18 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't think a Commissioner can do shit unless the owners pull a Donald Sterling or worse (and I don't put that past the Wilpons, who are dumb enough to do something stupid like that) but in general the Commish works for Fred + Jeff not the other way around.
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| Ashie62 Jan 15 2015 12:46 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I believe the Mets are committed to Wilmer Flores getting first crack at SS.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 15 2015 01:06 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, BB-Ref's 'Most Similar' list* for Desmond is topped with names such as JJ Hardy, Orlando Cabrera, Stephen Drew, Juan Uribe, Brandon Phillip & Khalil Greene. Anyone want to be paying $20 mil/yr for any of those guys in their 30's? Desmond will hit 30 just before becoming a FA and has seen his OPS+ slip 125 - 113 - 103 over the past three seasons. Still a serious upgrade over whatever we have there for 2015, but when it's framed as an 'All-in or bust' scenario [Best prospect PLUS another top prospect PLUS full FA deal or you're not worthy of a franchise] I think that's overstating things more than just a bit. * Not the greatest judge of like-players IMO, but just a quickie example
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 15 2015 01:15 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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What Leiter said. I think the payroll's gonna be at about the same embarrassing level as last year. And because several sources are reporting that the current payroll level projects at about $10M or so more than last year's, the Mets are gonna hafta dump salary to get to the mid 80's. So I'm not necessarily predicting that 2015 payroll's gonna be even less. But if it was, why do you find this so surprising, or unbelievable? Are you saying that you're OK with a mid-80's payroll, but that you draw the line at anything less? Me, I expect the Mets to have one of baseball's top three payrolls every single season. That's the way it oughtta be, the way it must be, given the team's geographic location.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 15 2015 01:20 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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See, this is where things get all absurd for me. I mean, this whole analysis about why Desmond is too flawed to play shortstop for the Mets given his current price tag. Which the Mets can't afford anyway. And if Desmond was good enough to meet your standards, he'd be that much less affordable. Isn't it more efficient, more honest, to just recognize that the Mets can't afford Desmond and get on with hoping that their cheap bargain basement shortstop option, whoever that's gonna be, comes through?
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| Edgy MD Jan 15 2015 01:33 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't think I was dishonest.
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| Ceetar Jan 15 2015 01:36 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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no, because they could afford Desmond, in a vacuum, if they thought that's what they needed.
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| metsmarathon Jan 15 2015 01:56 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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as far as a desmond/murphy swap goes, [u:3igu58iw]offensively[/u:3igu58iw], they're not all too dissimilar in terms of overall production. desmond gives you a little more power and a greater number of home runs, but at a lower batting average and obp.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 15 2015 02:08 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, that's not remotely what I'm saying.
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| Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 15 2015 02:40 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't have a problem with his salary, but I think it would be crazy to trade our top pitching prospect for one guaranteed year of a middling middle infielder.
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| 86-Dreamer Jan 15 2015 04:09 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Are the Wilpon's still borrowing money from MLB? If so, and they really need that loan to keep the team afloat, then the commish does have plenty of leverage over their ability to keep the team.
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| Edgy MD Jan 15 2015 04:31 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The Mets closed the MLB loan with the cash influx they got from the minority shares back in 2012.
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| Ashie62 Jan 16 2015 02:08 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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This whole The Mets are too cheap or broke to compete for players mantra is getting really old for me. I mean really really old.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 16 2015 12:37 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm curious... for those of you saying "mediocre" or "average" in regards to Desmond... who in your mind is "good," besides, say, Tulo?
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| Ceetar Jan 16 2015 12:40 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Hanley, Johnny Peralta?
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| Edgy MD Jan 16 2015 12:55 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, I'm not calling him mediocre or average, but I certainly have issues with saying that him winning the Silver Sluggo means he's some kind of definitive game-changer. They picked him out of crowded field of five different guys who could have won, probably getting the edge from (a) being the defending champ, and (b) having the power numbers that are particularly unusual for a shortstop, but I have no problem saying Peralta (for instance) was easily the better the asset this past season. So was Tulowitzki, as little as he played.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 16 2015 12:57 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Maybe Andrelton Simmons and J. J. Hardy, too, right?
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| Ceetar Jan 16 2015 01:14 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Also, yes, Desmond is a good _ss_ but the Mets need offense more than they need plus production for that position. You don't generally get the offensive bang for your back at that position so it doesn't seem like it's worth overpaying in prospects or money.
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| Ashie62 Jan 18 2015 07:14 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ditto..twice.
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| smg58 Jan 19 2015 01:57 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't understand the "obligated" part in the Desmond extension if the primary piece is Murphy. I love the "any team would extend him" bit, while acknowledging in the very next sentence that the Nationals haven't done that. (PS the Scherzer signing suggests that the Nats could afford it if they wanted to.)
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| Frayed Knot Jan 19 2015 02:42 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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"I don't understand the "obligated" part in the Desmond extension..."
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| TheOldMole Jan 20 2015 01:58 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I root for the Mets, not the Mets' balance sheet. I don't care how much they pay people.
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| Vic Sage Jan 20 2015 02:38 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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ideally i'd agree with you, Mole. But the Pons have demonstrated an unacceptably limited willingness to spend to improve the team, so any monies they tie up in a bad deal is money they don't have for other (potentially better) deals. Its a zero-sum game, so if they overpay to improve at SS, that affects their ability to do other stuff that could help more.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 20 2015 05:29 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Scoreboard announcements vs. signings? That's tinhat worry.
Y'know, the guy with plus-contact and -strike-zone-judgment, who was outrunning Rusney Castillo and Puig in workouts as a teenager? Okay, Tulo may not be fully healthy. And Syndergaard's a lot to give up for Desmond, maybe. And we didn't even know Grigorius was available for so little. But this guy is young, extremely polished for his age (or for a 25-to-27-year-old, even), and ticks all the boxes. He just happens to wreck our nonexistent budget.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 21 2015 08:08 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Whacky suggestion of the day. Brewers just traded Gallardo to Texas for a couple guys including young SS Luis Sardinas, who can pick-em and shows at least some ability as a singles hitter.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 21 2015 08:16 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Mets rumors: Shortstop Yoan Moncada won't fit in Mets' budget
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2015/1/20/7 ... oll-budget
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| d'Kong76 Jan 21 2015 08:29 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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http://www.baseballamerica.com/internat ... n-moncada/
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| Edgy MD Jan 21 2015 08:35 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Those rules are miserable, aren't they?
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| Ceetar Jan 21 2015 09:07 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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pretty much, yeah. one guy saying Mancada is going to be the top prospect in MLB is just one guy saying that. Doesn't mean he's a slam dunk to be their answer this year even if he is. While I doubt the Mets can/will afford ~$60 for a signing bonus (including fees) anyway, there is also the restraint on the next two signing periods to consider that applies to the Mets but NOT to some other teams. It's not just about money. And even if it were, that's a hell of a lot of cash to spend on a signing bonus.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 21 2015 09:16 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The rules are the same for every team.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/internat ... n-moncada/ You would think, logically, that "big market" and "high revenue" are synonymous, redundant ways to describe a baseball team. But leave it to the Wilpon Mets to create an exception. Hey, Mr. Met Apologist: how would you like this story to read? Maybe the writers can write that Moncada should be avoided at any price because he's a certain-bust and a pedophile and on top of that he also likes Jennifer Aniston movies.
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| Ceetar Jan 21 2015 09:22 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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the rules are NOT the same for every team.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 21 2015 09:25 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Let's debate my Segura idea instead.
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| Edgy MD Jan 21 2015 09:41 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not so sure there's such an obvious match there. If the Mets truly are as shortstop-poor as all that, that paucity is projected to be in the short term. In the long term, they look to be potentially graduating four shortstop prospects in the next four seasons.
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| Ceetar Jan 21 2015 09:47 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Curious about Segura. Didn't know about the personal stuff last year, but the year before he was pretty good (And the year before, his first, he was Ruben Tejada) He's got more speed though, and last year his babip was a blip lower. decent walker. I'm not trading Gee AND Tejada for that. (Tejada will be a very good SS/2B backup guy this year) But I'd do it if they threw in a prospect of sorts. Doesn't have to be top flight guy, just someone. Or maybe a solid lefty pen guy?
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 21 2015 09:49 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The rules are the same for every team. Some teams simply chose to play their hand differently.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 21 2015 09:54 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, then there you go. Now we can all go back to pretending that the Mets aren't constrained by their poverty not that money matters anyway and we can root for Flores or Tejada to hold the fort while the Mets kill time until the next wave of young Honus Wagners hits Citi Field. And maybe Wilmer FLores develops into a Honus Wagner himself giving the Mets five instead of four Honus Wagners in the near future.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 21 2015 09:55 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Segura was the guy traded for Zach Greinke. You can't not include Tejada or expect a prospect back in getting him. In fact I'm afraid my offer is too little. In addition to having his kid die he was hurt when douchy teammate Ryan Braun hit him in the head with a careless practice swing. All that and he rallied to finish strong last year, due for major bounceback, my sources are predicting.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 21 2015 09:57 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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One wouldn't think that Sandy would be all that high on Segura's .041 career Walk rate - essentially that's Murphy-esque coupled with a lower BA and half the 2Bs at a much better hitting park.
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| Edgy MD Jan 21 2015 10:00 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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And there you go. Talking to me like I'm a two-year old scoring on the wrong side of the curve on the aptitude tests. Come on. Let's be friends. I have a lot of great things at my house.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 21 2015 10:03 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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What? We're not friends? I like stuff. Whatcha got at home? Answer the second question first. I'm not into comic books.
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| Lefty Specialist Jan 21 2015 12:27 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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| A Boy Named Seo Jan 22 2015 11:36 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, he'd command more than Gee/Tejada, but not much more, I'd imagine. Led by a trio of interchangeable mediocrities in Lohse, Garza, and Wily Peralta, an up-and-coming arm like Montero maybe (packaged with Tejada) could be sweet enough. If this was the NBA, I'd throw in a 2017 2nd round draft pick, too. Done and dusted.
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| Edgy MD Jan 22 2015 12:02 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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To start, a complete (signed!) collection of "The Magic Is Back" horizontal subway posters.  Got the Frank Taveras one in Spanish even! Talk about porn!
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| Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2015 11:12 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Last night on Mets Hot Stove, Jim Duquette suggested that the Mets might be able to acquire Desmond from Washington by sending Murphy and one of the following: Matz, Plawecki, or Montero. (Duquette's thought is that after signing Scherzer, the Nationals will be looking for some payroll relief. I'm not sure how much this proposed deal would help with that. Murphy will make $8 million this year, and Desmond will make $11 million. Does the difference of $3 million mean all that much to a team that just committed $210 million?)
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 23 2015 11:22 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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As long as the player's with his team for the whole pre-FA season, the team gets draft-pick compensation (provided they make him the one-year Qualifying Offer after the season and he rejects it, of course). Murphy and Montero for Desmond, maybe. Bump it up to Matz or Plawecki, however, and they better be paying Desmond's salary this year.
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| Edgy MD Jan 23 2015 11:32 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Bump it to Vic Black, I think.
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| Ashie62 Jan 23 2015 11:34 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Segura is 24 years old. He lost a son late in the season. Although his numbers were abit underwhelming I believe he has quite a bit of room before he hits his ceiling. I like him. He will not come cheaply. I'm guessing the Brewers would ask for Noah or Wheeler. A similar shortstop is 22 year old Xander Bogaerts of the Red Sox. He is/was a highly touted prospect. He clocked in with 12 hr 46 rbi .240 ba and a .297 obp and was considered a disappointment by the Sawx. His cost would likely be about the same as Segura. Personally, I would take Noah for either and bump Wheeler up for Bogaerts.
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| Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2015 11:34 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If Matz or Plawecki were included, I'd be more interested in Desmond signing an extension than in the Nationals sending $11 million. (The Mets, of course, might very well see it differently.) I'd rather see Plawecki stay with the Mets for another year or so to make sure that d'Arnaud is for real, and then trade him for someone who will have a longer-term impact than a one-year rental.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 23 2015 11:48 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Here's what drives me nuts about all of these shortstop discussions: Remember that article FAFIF posted a few days ago claiming that the Mets will use their relief pitchers mainly to minimize the team's future salary obligations to those relievers? Well, I think the team operates like that at every single turn. Not only did that article not surprise me, but if anything, I'm a little angry with myself for not having thought of that angle before the author did. So that's where my cynical head is at.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 23 2015 11:59 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Keeping in mind that most (if not all) of these stories about trades or future contracts for the likes of a Desmond or Tulowitski are coming from fans and media, those who read such stories and then claim that the team was lying or misleading them when they don't happen really need to look in the mirror if they want to know who to blame for their disappointment.
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| Edgy MD Jan 23 2015 12:07 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If it's a dog-and-pony show calculated to demonstrated false good faith to display for their fans to return with good will, it's a poorly conceived and profound failure, as everything I'm reading suggests that fans are inferring bad faith and returning it with ill will.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 23 2015 12:19 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, if those "negotiations" never took place, that's another thing.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 23 2015 12:21 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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So something the Mets did backfired on them even worse than they imagined it might. Shocking. Just shocking.
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| Edgy MD Jan 23 2015 12:38 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Maybe so, but whatever Jeff Wilpon is, Alderson hardly seems stupid enough to waste his energy on shadow games that clearly aren't going to work.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 23 2015 01:14 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The recent stories here are being generated by the likes of Rosenthal - who said that when the three-way deal fell through that the Mets should continue to pursue Desmond and then w/should be forced into giving him a long term deal - by Medgel who pretty much piggy-backed onto Rosenthal only eliminating parts of it so as to shoe-horn the whole thing into his usual agenda - and now by Duquette who is clearly just speculating on his own The only actual story where there were negotiations going on appear to be the three-way where the Mets are reported to have backed away (properly IMO) due to the high price of players not contracts. The only stories that have come out involving Tulowitski have come from Colorado saying, multiple times now, that there's nothing to them. The Mets, to my knowledge, have said little or nothing on this topic, certainly not recently.
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| Ashie62 Jan 23 2015 05:49 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Flores maintains the lead in the backstretch.
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| d'Kong76 Jan 25 2015 06:53 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Funny guy!
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 25 2015 12:29 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Got one of these over your fireplace? (Ashes included) 
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| Edgy MD Jan 25 2015 12:32 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Nah, I'm a fan, not a nut.
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| batmagadanleadoff Jan 25 2015 12:39 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Sez you.
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| Edgy MD Jan 25 2015 12:49 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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(sniff...)
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| d'Kong76 Jan 25 2015 01:46 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, we're all pretty nucking futs... I would think that's
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| Ashie62 Jan 25 2015 05:56 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Wilmer Flores will become a golden God.
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| A Boy Named Seo Feb 06 2015 11:52 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I still keep thinking about Segura and every time I read the MLBTradeRumors.com the last coupla weeks, it talked of the Brewers chasing Jonathan Papelbon.
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| A Boy Named Seo Feb 06 2015 11:53 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I still keep thinking about Segura and every time I read the MLBTradeRumors.com the last coupla weeks, it talked of the Brewers chasing Jonathan Papelbon.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2015 12:36 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'd be very tempted to make that deal but I'm beginning to think the Mets actually want Flores in the lineup so we'll have to find a spot for Muffy too
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| A Boy Named Seo Feb 06 2015 12:58 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Moving Muff could be the easy part, if 1 or 2 better-than-decent prospects (to go along with the $8M in salary relief) is a fair enough return. The Angels could use him. The Dbacks and White Sox, too. Honestly, the MFY would've been a perfect fit pre-Drew. Sorry, Muff.
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| Edgy MD Feb 06 2015 01:07 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Muff is moveable — consistent, versatile, and in the last year of his contract — but he sure ain't going to Milwaukee. They let Rickie Weeks walk (still available, last I checked), confident as they were in his successor Scooter F. Gennett.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 06 2015 01:34 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Weeks? Hmm. There's an interesting potential minor-league-contract recipient, no? (I mean, not for short, but still.)
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| A Boy Named Seo Feb 06 2015 01:46 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Agree w/ you on the Brewers. That's why I think the Angels are our patsies. They can easily absorb Muff's $8M salary, and have Rockies castoff Josh Rutledge at second and Cardinals castoff David Freese at third. So it is then I will make these two fake trades today: Mets send Daniel Murphy to LAA for 22-year old, AA 3Bman Kaleb Cowart and 19-yo outfielder Natanael Delgado, who made his his pro debut in the Arizona Fall League last year. Neither are 'deal-breakers' for the Angels, sez me. Then I will, acting on behalf of the Mets again, send Jenrry Mejia, Ruben Tejada, and Cory Mazzoni to Milwaukee for Jean Segura. In: Segura, 2 kids Out: Muff, Mejia, Tejada, 1 kid Shortstop good til 2k19. Second can be Dilson/Flores. THANKYOUANDGOODNIGHT.
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| Edgy MD Feb 06 2015 02:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I be trigger-shy. Spaghetti-legged. That's a little more going out than coming in, from my perspective. Can you squeeze a little more out of your partners? Maybe get a minor leaguer who works more as a AAA Wright insurance policy than Cowart does?
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| A Boy Named Seo Feb 06 2015 04:53 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Good news, I just flipped Kaleb Cowart to the Indians for Swiss Army Knife infielder Mike Aviles. The Indians do this because they're a cost-conscious middle market team, too (HAHA!) and the $3.5M salary for a declining 33, soon-to-be 34-year old Aviles not good lettuce for them.
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| Edgy MD Feb 06 2015 05:16 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Me gusto Aviles.
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| A Boy Named Seo Feb 06 2015 05:52 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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For the record, I don't really think Milwaukee makes that trade.
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| Edgy MD Feb 06 2015 09:30 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Some GM of the Year you are.
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| d'Kong76 Feb 07 2015 08:38 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Flores kahnfident!
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| TheOldMole Feb 07 2015 01:58 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Flores hits .290 this year and doesn't embarrass himself at short.
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| Mets Guy in Michigan Feb 07 2015 02:15 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm with the Mole. Not too many of the guys we've talked about seem that much better that what we have. We're going to need offense.
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| Frayed Knot Feb 07 2015 04:57 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I think I heard somewhere that Brian Williams has some time at shortstop on his resume.
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| Ashie62 Feb 07 2015 06:28 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, but Williams hasn't been right since returning from the moon.
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| Ceetar Feb 07 2015 08:27 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Hope that's with at least a ..330 or so OBP though.
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| TheOldMole Feb 08 2015 04:06 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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.330 OBP, 50+ RBIs. You heard it here first.
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| Frayed Knot Feb 19 2015 04:54 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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MLB.com -- Rangers infielder Jurickson Profar's year-long attempt to heal a strained muscle in his right shoulder without surgery has come to an end. Profar, once one of the top prospects in baseball, will undergo surgery on Monday in Arlington and there is a possibility that for the second straight year he could be out for an entire season.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 22 2015 11:16 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If you thought the Mets decided that they were going with Flores, think again.
read the rest at http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... -1.2124866
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 05:49 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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He's been saying it during the winter too.
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| MFS62 Feb 23 2015 07:40 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Red Sox sign Cuban prospect:
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| A Boy Named Seo Feb 23 2015 01:43 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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A crazy amount, but maybe 20 mils or so less than the crazy amount he was projected to land.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 23 2015 02:02 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Also looks like Everth Cabrera and the O's are romantically involved.
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| Frayed Knot Feb 23 2015 02:34 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The thing about the Cuban Moncada is that, as much as we'd like to see the Mets insert themselves into some of these foreign FA hunts at some point, he was never going to be a SS solution for this season anyway.
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| Vic Sage Feb 23 2015 03:55 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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i don't care what position he plays. If he really has 5-tool all-star potential then we should have tried to acquire him. And if all he costs is money, not players or prospects, then a NY team should be able to outbid their Bostonian brethren. But nooooooooooo, not our Won'tPons.
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 04:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Every player that costs money costs other players.
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| Frayed Knot Feb 23 2015 05:20 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not suggesting the Mets shouldn't at least have had their noses in on the bidding (in fact I specifically said otherwise) only that, in the context of being the answer as to who would play SS on the big club this season, he wasn't going to be in the mix.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 09:45 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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[fimg=444]http://media.giphy.com/media/KPdzGp8a20QbC/giphy.gif[/fimg]
I know what you mean. Keith Hernandez cost Dave Kingman. Darryl Strawberry cost Mike Howard.
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 09:51 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I thought it was a thoughtful, if obvious, point.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 09:59 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I thought is was the usual defend the Mets at all costs post. And the Mets traded for Keith knowing that if they wanted to keep him, they'd have to pay him what was large money for that time.
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 10:04 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, it wasn't. Please try harder. I beg you and beg you.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 10:09 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Do you really believe that the Mets even got to the point where they gauged Moncada's future to determine if he was worth what it would take to sign him? An impoverished person doesn't crack open a spreadsheet to figure out whether he should buy that beachfront house in Southhampton.
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 10:16 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I didn't make any claim with regard to what the Mets did or did not do.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 10:27 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Fair enough. So then, what exactly did you mean when you wrote what you wrote in response to what you repsonded to. If I may ask?
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 10:38 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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"Every player that costs money costs other players"?
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 10:45 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'd consider your points if the Mets were players, but they're not, so it's all moot. I doubt that there was any meaningful cost-benefit study undertaken over Moncada. Wake me up when the Mets are ready to join the big market teams in more than name only.
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| Nymr83 Feb 23 2015 10:49 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If the Mets want to join "the big market clubs" I'd rather they do it in major league free-agency instead of giving a record-breaking deal to an amateur who has never taken a swing against a big leaguer.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 10:53 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The point isn't so much whether Moncada will pan out or not, but that the Mets play in fucking New York City and couldn't get this guy even if they wanted to. And that the Mets can't get this guy even if they wanted to says about a zillion other bad things about this franchise. The Red Sox aren't a dumb organization; they're one of the best run orgs in all of baseball.
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| Nymr83 Feb 23 2015 11:01 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The Mets couldn't get this guy if they wanted to? says who? they spent more than this on Michael Cuddyer. I didn't want Cuddyer, but paying so much money for him kinda shows their finances arent as bad as you like to think. And, get this, THE PLAN IS WORKING. the Mets farm system has gotten better each of the last 4 years or so and has gotten to the point where building a homegrown winner is very close to being a reality. Once some combination of Harvey/Wheeler/Syndergaard/DeGrom/Matz/Montero etc and the young bats at almost every position get to the 85 win level, which i think happens this year or next at the latest, the Mets can spend the money to add the missing pieces. this is a better plan than trying to be a late 80's Steinbrenner buying a championship.
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 11:06 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If you're not interested in considering my points, I'd ask you not solicit them. Whatever "players" means, the Mets certainly were not too long ago. And they made a horrible mess of it, and are still paying.
Or maybe they did and they just didn't come to the conclusion you wanted.
You don't strike me as particularly asleep. Heck, it's after 1:00.
That may be your point. Mine is that it certainly should matter whether he pans out or not. And spending money with a foolish ill-regard to whether it would pan out is what got them in this mess. Think about it. And I beg you to think hard and not answer me sarcastically. On one hand, you are deriding the organization for not undertaking "any meaningful cost-benefit study undertaken over Moncada." On the other, you insist that any meaningful analysis shouldn't matter. They should just spend money and spend it on THIS guy but they won't or can't and this is New York. Which is it?
I prefer the Mets. I think we're darn lucky to have the front office our team has. And I'd hate to see it blown up in the next populist revolt.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 11:06 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I root for the Mets and I've defended Alderson every chance I ever had on this board. Sandy's a savior. But that doesn't change anything or get the Wilpons off the hook. The team from New York team should be smart and rich.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 23 2015 11:08 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Yeah, and see, this is an investment that actually appears to make a LOT of sense, for this or any organization with the stuff to pony up. Even if the kid is a middling major leaguer for five years after two years in the minors, that's a plus-column ROI. If he's anything beyond, then, well, PHWOAR.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 11:08 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I had to ask you what your point was in order to decide for myself that it's a moot one.
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 11:23 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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So much reason has died this night.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 11:28 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I don't believe there was ever room for Moncada in the Mets skimpy budget, and so therefore, the Mets were never in the market. It appears that you disagree on this point, which neither of us could prove one way or the other. So here we are.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 11:30 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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But that no team should pay the Moncada price for a player like Moncada because he might flop ? That makes no sense to me.
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| Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 11:32 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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And... we're at the point where you're more interested in talking to yourself again.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 23 2015 11:33 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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If you told me that a team with a very limited budget should avoid Moncada because it can't afford to make too many mistakes or can't afford to make any costly mistakes, well that's another thing. But that a team from New York should always avoid these kind of signings -- that's absurd.
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| Ceetar Feb 24 2015 07:52 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Why does it have to be the Mets are broke or the Mets can spend like money doesn't matter?
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 24 2015 08:05 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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This is just more delusional rationalization speak as far as I'm concerned. It's like telling me that the homeless person didn't buy the mansion because he didn't like the quality of the kitchen cabinets.
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| Ceetar Feb 24 2015 08:16 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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But what you're saying is because the guy didn't buy the mansion, he must be homeless.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 24 2015 08:25 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 24 2015 08:27 AM |
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Not really. See, I already know that the Mets are that homeless guy even before Moncada went on the market. Mets fans are justified in thinking that way based on years of the team's financially embarrassing behavior --- including, among other things, taking out a bridge loan to essentially pay their electric bill. I'm still waiting for that Santana and Bay money to be re-invested in the team. You wanna give the Mets the benefit of the doubt -- which you always do? Go ahead. It's your right. You wanna express total disbelief over opinions like mine? That, I don't get.
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| Vic Sage Feb 24 2015 08:26 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Obviously the evaluation of the player is paramount. Spending doesn't mean spending for the sake of spending, at least not to me. But we finally have a GM i trust to make these judgments, so if he determined that this guy is either more hype than substance, or simply not what the scouts say he is, then i'm totally fine with that. But if he really liked this guy and simply wasn't given the resources to pursue him, then i would be pissed. And whatever other prospects we have in our system is irrelevant. If you think a guy can be great, you get him if you can. And I don't think the presence of Herrera on our 40-man roster, or Uhrena or any other 2b/3b prospects in our system would be any reason not to pursue a 5-tool IFer. And a "hard cap" is bullshit. Its not a hard cap. Its a threshhold amount over which you pay a tax. So its just more money that they could choose to spend, just as Boston did in this situation where they were facing the exact same circumstance.
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| Ceetar Feb 24 2015 08:37 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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it is in fact a hard cap on international signings for the next two periods.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 24 2015 08:42 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ceets, we're just talking in circles. I know what the issues are. The real estate market might go flat. They're gonna have to change all the furniture because they don't like the style of the decor. It's too far away from everything. A better deal might come along if they wait a little longer. Blah blah blah. But what does all of that matter when they're penniless?
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| Ceetar Feb 24 2015 08:48 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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What if they're not penniless? And what's the point in commenting on every single thing every other team does as "The Mets could've done that if they weren't broke"? I'm more interested in if these moves make sense or not. They're not exactly slam dunks, everyone has a different opinion on how the team should be run, clearly. So if you're going to say "This is undoubtedly a thing the Mets should've done" I'm simply pointing out that that is not true. It doesn't matter if the ultimate reason they didn't do it was money, it's still true that it's not a 100% slam dunk decision or that Sandy might have felt this particular move's risks outweighted the rewards. If you simply want to say "The Mets are broke" to everything, keep posting the Megdal post-generator stuff to the finance thread.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 24 2015 08:57 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm not even arriving at that point of deciding whether the thing is worth doing because I think that the Mets can't do it even if they wanted to. To me, it's pointless. It's like the homeless guy shopping for mansions if I may talk in circles against my best wishes. If, for example, the Mets were asked about Moncada, do you think their spokesperson would admit that they would've loved to sign Moncada if only they had the funds in their budget? You always base your opinions on the team's politically correct comments. When they finally get a prospect or two for Gee, do you think they'll admit that they dumped salary? No. They'll say that they made the best deal possible, even if they were constrained from trading Gee for someone with a comparable or, shudder, even higher salary.
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| Edgy MD Feb 24 2015 08:59 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Well, they were reported to have actively scouted him.
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| Ceetar Feb 24 2015 09:05 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Gee is NOT a salary dump, it's a value dump. They don't have room for him and if he only pitches as mostly a reliever his value drops. But it's not really a dump at all or they would've done it already. They know he's probably more valuable to another team than to the Mets, therefore they want to leverage that difference into something that helps the Mets more. That's just smart baseball. I base none of my opinions on what the Mets say, because nothing the Mets say publicly, or 'privately but really publicly because I know you're going to publish this quote' really means much of anything. I'm just looking at the hard facts around Moncada and certainly see ways that any team could feel like he wasn't worth it.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 24 2015 09:11 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That's what the Mets'll say after it happens. That's for sure.
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| Nymr83 Feb 24 2015 10:31 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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if they just wanted to dump the salary why isnt he gone already? if the Mets are so cheap why wasn't Murphy dumped for nothing? the Mets could easily have "justified" it by saying Herrera is ready. Maybe its because the Mets are actually holding onto their assets to use wisely? nah, that wouldn't fit your conspiracy theories.
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| batmagadanleadoff Feb 24 2015 10:46 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Maybe the Mets are waiting for the best deal possible that would still qualify as a salary dump. They're not gonna simply release those players into the wind. Why is my view a conspiracy theory? Have you been conditioned to lower your expectations? Are you justifying and accepting the status quo? Don't you think that the team from New York City should have one of the top two or three or four or five or six payrolls in baseball? Every. Single. Season. Do you really believe that there are no significant financial restraints on the Mets ability to spend? Sandy Alderson's a magician but if he could spend what a big market team ought to spend, the Mets would likely be even farther along in their progress. They might've already had that season under Sandy where they won more than half their games.
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| d'Kong76 Feb 27 2015 04:05 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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February 27, 2015
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| Edgy MD Feb 27 2015 04:51 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The original story, from Newsday, suggests a more indicting tone from Reyes, that the "something wrong" clearly is (or was ) Tejada's attitude.
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| Centerfield Feb 27 2015 05:03 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Makes it seem like Jose didn't have any intention on re-signing well before he hit free agency. Interesting.
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| Edgy MD Feb 28 2015 07:58 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Jimmy Rollins apparently wasn't quite as Mets-averse as all that.
Doesn't quite say which "lot" it would have taken.
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| Frayed Knot May 05 2015 06:08 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ken Davidoff at the NYPost pries the lid off the SS discussion once again. Nuthin like a few errors plus an off day to wake up slumbering spirits. (it's partly why this thread is 20 pages long!!)
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| Edgy MD May 05 2015 06:26 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Surprised someone's thinking about a shortstop reload and doesn't look to the teams whose season is getting away from them — specifically the Brewers and Jean Segura.
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| TransMonk May 05 2015 06:44 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Onley had mentioned Segura to the Mets as a possible fit last week..but called it "speculation" on his part and said there were no rumors to support it.
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| Edgy MD May 05 2015 07:34 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I had generally written off 2014 as reflective of the terrible tragedy in his family. But who knows? I imagine more than a few people never recover professionally from that sort of blow.
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| Vic Sage May 05 2015 10:20 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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The article DID mention Segura: "Other options may include Jean Segura and Deven Marrero, assuming the Brewers and Red Sox are willing to deal them." Lets bring up Matt Reynolds. He can hit the ball and he can throw to first.
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| d'Kong76 May 15 2015 12:18 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Ya know something... fuck him and his preferences!
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| seawolf17 May 15 2015 12:26 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Seriously. I'm sure the source is bullshit (Heyman), but now? Screw you, Tulo.
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| Edgy MD May 28 2015 08:59 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Mets expected to be among the leading bidders for Cuban shortstop Alfredo Rodriguez.
A natural plus fielder with a long way to go with the bat? From Cuba? Sign me up for some Rey-O II!! 
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| Centerfield May 28 2015 09:42 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Speaking of Rey-O II, is that a 48 year old Edgardo Alfonzo playing next to him at second?
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| batmagadanleadoff May 28 2015 09:52 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm already hating him.
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| Edgy MD May 28 2015 09:59 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Seriously. The second-baseman looks middle-aged and the baserunner looks like a middle schooler.
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| Centerfield May 29 2015 07:24 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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By the way, you missed a great opportunity for a thread title: METS HAVE INTEREST IN A-ROD FOR SHORTSTOP
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| Ceetar May 29 2015 09:24 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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And the real Edgardo Alfonzo is only 41.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket May 29 2015 09:27 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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That 48 year old remark really hurt.
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| Centerfield May 29 2015 10:36 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Wow, I didn't realize Alfonzo was that young when he retired. What a short career.
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| seawolf17 May 29 2015 11:10 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Bring him back in September!
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| Benjamin Grimm May 29 2015 11:35 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Or next week!
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| Edgy MD Jul 10 2015 08:14 PM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Good night for any supporters of Syndergaard-for-Desmond to come forward and take their beatings.
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| Edgy MD Aug 25 2015 07:55 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Even after the 0-5 by Ruben last night, the Mets are fourth in the league in fWAR by shortstops. The shortstop-rich team they were supposed to be dealing with, Chicago? Dead fucking last.
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| Ceetar Aug 25 2015 08:07 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I'm sketchy on this, I'm halfway sure Fangraphs is crediting all of Flores' 2B success as SS success.
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| Edgy MD Aug 25 2015 08:17 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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Maybe. I'd encourage you to check that out. I've got to get some work done today.
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| Ceetar Aug 25 2015 08:24 AM Re: Shortstop 2015 |
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I might, home on baby duty. I haven't been confident in any of the 'at position' splits out there. This is why I need to find the time to set up my own database of current season stuff, but I never find that time.
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