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WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 23 2014 10:24 AM

Because the Mets don't have enough of those.




Michael Cuddyer is a perfect free agent fit for NY Mets, who like him

The Mets are highly reluctant to trade any of their young pitchers this winter, despite an urgent need to upgrade the offense. It’s not impossible to imagine Zack Wheeler, Noah Syndergaard, Jacob deGrom and to some extent Rafael Montero playing for different teams next year, but it’s close.

So where do they find a bat? Well, here’s an idea, one that that’s already been floated in the blogosphere, and turns out to be a concrete possibility: Free agent Michael Cuddyer, the exact sort of piece that fits the offense the Mets hope to construct.

Here’s what we mean by that: While Sandy Alderson has long checked in on the Giancarlo Stantons and Carlos Gonzalezes of the world, he and his staff consider it more likely that the Mets will surround their core of pitchers with a lineup filled veteran, versatile or otherwise interchangeable pieces. Think Tampa Bay Rays, during their good years.

Cuddyer is just such a piece. Thirty-five years old, he was injured much of this season, but hit 10 home runs in 49 games, while batting .332. People familiar with the Mets’ thinking say that the team considers him attractive on a two-year deal.

It is hard to imagine Cuddyer getting more than that, but as one major league executive notes about the Mets’ top free agent target last year, “No one thought Jhonny Peralta was going to get four years, either.” The Cardinals shocked the Mets, and most of baseball, by giving Peralta a four-year, $52 million deal.

If Cuddyer’s market does not inflate in a similar way, he could provide much-needed power for the Mets, a tremendous clubhouse presence to assume some of the leadership burden from his friend David Wright -- and all at a commitment that does not require excessive years, or the loss of a pitching prospect.

It’s not that the Mets refuse to trade any of their pitchers not named Gee, Niese or Colon; it’s just that they are highly reluctant. Over the past 12 months, Wheeler went from sort of available, with some in the organization pushing hard to move him, to virtually untouchable. Syndergaard had a disappointing year at Triple-A, but remains young and promising. DeGrom is about to win the National League rookie of the year award, so he isn’t going anywhere.

Scouts rate Montero a notch below the others, but sources say that the Mets are reluctant to part with him, too. He could be had in the right deal (Yoenis Cespedes, perhaps, who the Mets are monitoring?), but is far from on the market.

Expect the Mets to explore many different trade options this winter. Rumors will arise, and many will be based in fact. We’ll even present some concrete possibilities here, over the next days and weeks.

But two years of control over a veteran hitter like Cuddyer, at a rate that will not bust their tight budget -- well, that fits the plan better than many other choices.


http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/baseba ... -1.1984031

Edgy MD
Oct 23 2014 10:29 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Provides right-handed cover at first, too.

Ashie62
Oct 23 2014 10:37 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I'm in.

We are only a piece or two away from a 2015 ready to win team.

I do like that Cespedes guy though.

Frayed Knot
Oct 23 2014 10:59 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

"Because the Mets don't have enough of those."

Like?

d'Kong76
Oct 23 2014 11:00 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I can't see a guy who managed to play only 49 games
this year as someone I want to give a two year contract to?
And you just know it'll end up being a three or four year one.
No thanks.

Ceetar
Oct 23 2014 11:02 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

eh, martino.

Cuddyer's the popular choice to talk about because he has that Wright-friendship angle.

TransMonk
Oct 23 2014 11:08 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I like Cuddyer a lot as a FA pickup...as long as he's not sold by management as the total solution for a winning season in 2015.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Oct 23 2014 11:09 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Fits their needs in several ways, was a legit consideration whether or not Trackie said so. I like him.

Edgy MD
Oct 23 2014 11:16 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

d'Kong76 wrote:
I can't see a guy who managed to play only 49 games
this year as someone I want to give a two year contract to?
And you just know it'll end up being a three or four year one.
No thanks.

I certainly don't see Alderson coughing that up.

d'Kong76
Oct 23 2014 11:17 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

One year, club option for a second.

Frayed Knot
Oct 23 2014 11:17 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Oct 23 2014 11:31 AM

d'Kong76 wrote:
I can't see a guy who managed to play only 49 games this year as someone I want to give a two year contract to?


Is also just a year removed from a 500 AB season where he hit (a Coors-aided) .331/.389/.570
Yeah, you'd need to satisfy yourself that the 2014 injury problems weren't likely to linger. But he'd seem to work well is RF (moving Grandy to LF) for at least one season (particularly if semi-platooned
with the likes of a Nieuwenhuis or MdD) plus, as mentioned, the occasional fill-in at 1B vs LHP. Could even play 3B in a pinch.


And you just know it'll end up being a three or four year one. No thanks.


Under some regimes I'd agree with this. But I think even those reluctant to give Sandy credit for much would have to give him points for the willingness to walk away from a price too high (or long)
as opposed to those days when NYM mgmt would decide what they wanted first then agree to whatever the cost it took to get it no matter where they went.
If he wants more than two years then go in a different direction.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 23 2014 11:17 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Frayed Knot wrote:
"Because the Mets don't have enough of those."

Like?


I can't get any exaggeration past you.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 23 2014 01:05 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

There is money available, or should be. I can think of worse places to spend it.

Zvon
Oct 23 2014 02:05 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

TransMonk wrote:
I like Cuddyer a lot as a FA pickup...as long as he's not sold by management as the total solution for a winning season in 2015.

d'Kong76 wrote:
One year, club option for a second.


I wouldn't mind him as a side dish, but he's not the answer to our problems.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 23 2014 02:21 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I like Cuddyer, but not head over heels like. But this is where the Mets shop these days, so I understand. Because the Mets are like the Royals. Only without the pennant. And the snazzy scoreboard.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 23 2014 02:27 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
I like Cuddyer, but not head over heels like. But this is where the Mets shop these days, so I understand. Because the Mets are like the Royals. Only without the pennant. And the snazzy scoreboard.


No, that wasn't true. Actually, I'm indifferent to Cuddyer. I don't know why I wrote otherwise.

Vic Sage
Oct 23 2014 03:17 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
Fits their needs in several ways, was a legit consideration whether or not Trackie said so. I like him.


this.

i've always liked him as a player. i wouldn't mind having him in our OF next year. He's not the difference between a losing team and a winning team, and if Wright and Grandy don't come around next season, Cuddyer won't matter, but he can be helpful if the pitching is where we think it is, and some of the other guys start hitting again. He won't put up Coors numbers at CitiField (even with the fences pulled in) but he could put up a line of .270/20hr/30 doubles/ 90r/80rbi with an .800 OPS, and he could platoon some in RF, and spell Duda and Grandy against tough LHPs. A useful piece, not a centerpiece.

seawolf17
Oct 23 2014 05:40 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

He's a good fit. A deal somewhere between Chris Young and Bartolo Colon makes sense. I think having him here will benefit David too.

Lefty Specialist
Oct 23 2014 08:25 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

No, no, no. No more Band-aids. Get a real hitter or don't bother at all.

We're like beaten dogs, factoring into our thinking what crumbs the Wilpons will throw us. I want someone who'll make a difference, not warmed over crap like Cuddyer. He's old, his most recent power is Coors-aided, and he's coming off an injury season. I don't care if he cleans Wright's pool in the off-season, I want better than this, dammit.

Edgy MD
Oct 23 2014 08:40 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I don't tend to think of acquiring Cuddyer necessarily comes with a "but no one better than this" caveat.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 24 2014 12:23 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Lefty Specialist wrote:
No, no, no. No more Band-aids. Get a real hitter or don't bother at all.


Who's your huckleberry, then? The even health-balkier Hanley? Melky Cabrera? The positionless Nelson Cruz, or Victor Martinez?

Righty pop with competence at 3(-plus, historically) positions on a reasonable 2 year deal (in all likelihood)? Si, se puede.

Lefty Specialist
Oct 24 2014 06:56 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

My huckleberry? I want someone else's decent-hitting right-fielder or shortstop. And if that means we have to trade a decent pitcher (or two) to do it, then fine. I understand that a Gee or a Colon way not bring that player back, so we may have to take a chance with one of the other arms. Yes, it may come back to bite us. But I want to try to do something to shake up this team. Cuddyer is not that person. He's the guy you add AFTER you add that other guy.

Sandy has a lot of chips. We can go into 2015 with an awesome great 8-man starting staff that loses 2-1 because they can't get the runner in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Or we can get a guy that energizes the middle of the order and makes the whole lineup better.

We had high hopes for Chris Young, too. But I don't want to play the 'He'll fit in because he's a good guy and won't cost too much' game any more. I know, I know, the Wilpons. I'm just tired of this story played over and over.

Edgy MD
Oct 24 2014 07:20 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I don't know what the price tag is or what other maneuvers might come. All I think is that they're a better team with him than without him.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 24 2014 07:46 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Edgy MD wrote:
All I think is that they're a better team with him than without him.


Similarity score: 99.9999998 %

Ceetar
Oct 24 2014 07:52 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Edgy MD wrote:
I don't know what the price tag is or what other maneuvers might come. All I think is that they're a better team with him than without him.


Indeed. He's certainly worth a look and a discussion. There ARE probably a half dozen other guys with similar usefulness though. He's hardly the most singular or necessarily best choice. years, money, etc.

Lefty Specialist
Oct 24 2014 08:09 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

First of all, I do think they'll get him, because it's the kind of move this franchise makes. And they will be marginally better because he'll probably be better than the enormous offensive sinkhole that was left field last year. Frankly, it'd be hard to be any worse. We'll all pray that he'll be more like Marlon Byrd and less like Chris Young.

But you won't hear any fans saying, "Holy shit, they got Michael Cuddyer!" He won't be a difference-maker. He's not the piece that sends them to the playoffs.

Who should that guy be? Damned if I know. That's why they pay GM's good money. I'm not big on WATP's because they always overvalue your own guys and undervalue the trade partner's guys. I want Sandy to be bold. He's going to dump Colon and Murphy because of the bucks involved. He's got an excess of pitching. So add something that makes a difference. If you just exchange Colon's salary for Cuddyer's, you've gotten nowhere.

Madoff's Mets
Oct 24 2014 08:09 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

TransMonk wrote:
I like Cuddyer a lot as a FA pickup...as long as he's not sold by management as the total solution for a winning season in 2015.


This.

Edgy MD
Oct 24 2014 08:22 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I don't need a deal to make me say "Holy shit!" I've been around long enough to know that "Holy shit!" deals turn out to be "Shit!" deals as often as not. I appreciate a focus on wining ballgames, rather than offseason back pages.

And I don't see the Mets selling Michael Cuddyer as the difference-maker on a playoff run. Either he's worth the money he's paid (by the Mets or whoever) or he isn't. I don't know what that money is, so we can only speculate at this point, but it seems to be a little out there to speculate on the Mets marketing this guy as a playoff ticket or a "total solution for a winning season."

And if that happens, then the issue is with the Mets marketing strategy.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 24 2014 09:23 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I'm gonna flip flop again on Cuddyer. I mean, if he's gonna hit as well as Sage thinks he could, and come as cheap as Leiter thinks he'll likely cost, then yeah, I'm all for it. Even better yet if Cuddyer's gonna hit 40 HR's next year instead of the 20 he's being pegged at. And if he wins the 2015 MVP, then put me down for two thumbs up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
There is money available, or should be. I can think of worse places to spend it.


How're you figgerin'? Are you counting the money that might be freed up if Colon or Murphy or both are jettisoned? Did you get an inside tip from Matt Cerrone? Are you sayin' that the 2015 opening day payroll will be meaningfully greater than 2014's? Because factoring in conservative arb-eligible salary increases, the Mets are already pretty much where they opened last year.

TransMonk
Oct 24 2014 09:29 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Edgy MD wrote:
...it seems to be a little out there to speculate on the Mets marketing this guy as a playoff ticket or a "total solution for a winning season."

Not a direct marketing campaign, but it did "leak" that Sandy thought that GRANDERSON + YOUNG - HARVEY= 90 WINS last spring.

Still, I really like Cuddyer as a piece because he could fit multiple secondary needs, provide depth and (because he is a FA) require less risk than a trade of one of our valuable arms.

Edgy MD
Oct 24 2014 09:37 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Not a direct marketing campaign, but it did "leak" that Sandy thought that GRANDERSON + YOUNG - HARVEY= 90 WINS last spring.


I don't think it leaked. Sandy openly challenged his team to win 90, insisting the talent was there. He did not link it to one acquisition, though, and I wouldn't expect anybody in baseball to tag Cuddyer as a total solution for anything.

Regarding salary, since they opened last year, they've shed Ike Davis and Chris Young, and for what it's worth, Bobby Abreu, Kyle F. Farnsworth, Jose Valverde, John Lannan, and probably Omar Quintanilla, and Daisuke Matsuzaka. Some of that money will get gobbled up by raises, certainly, but some should be left over. And some money will likely be available for re-allocation if and when they clear up their six-man starting rotation --- possibly to pay the salary of whoever they get when they do that clearing up.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 24 2014 09:55 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Who cares how they might market Cuddyer if they actually got him? How does that matter?

TransMonk
Oct 24 2014 10:25 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

It's not about marketing Cuddyer, but rather management possibly implying that any one move is the only or best move.

I don't see this team as just one player away. I hope the team gets shaken up. Move Murphy. Move Wheeler. Change some parts. With all the young arms, I think there are several options to re-think the roster without spending a bunch more money in the short term.

But I can't take the rinse and repeat of adding a marginal player and somehow thinking the team is on track to win more than 80 games. Cuddyer would be a great pick up...as a supporting addition in conjunction with other moves.

Ceetar
Oct 24 2014 10:31 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I mean, the Mets aren't going make only one move regardless.

Even if Cuddyer is the 'main' acquisition, they're going to probably bring in another backup OF of some sort, even on a minor league deal. They'll be reaching out to MI guys. Pick up a reliever or two because he might be worthwhile.

This coupled with a presumably healthy David Wright and Matt Harvey and all the other internal roster machinations that could easily net them a handful of wins, or more, than this year?

TransMonk
Oct 24 2014 10:48 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Ceetar wrote:
I mean, the Mets aren't going make only one move regardless.

In my heart, I believe and hope this to be true...but this statement is not a certainty.

Presumed health and internal roster machinations haven't gotten the job done over the past 6 years. Am I being greedy for wanting more than a handful of extra wins?

Lefty Specialist
Oct 24 2014 11:09 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

TransMonk wrote:
It's not about marketing Cuddyer, but rather management possibly implying that any one move is the only or best move.

I don't see this team as just one player away. I hope the team gets shaken up. Move Murphy. Move Wheeler. Change some parts. With all the young arms, I think there are several options to re-think the roster without spending a bunch more money in the short term.

But I can't take the rinse and repeat of adding a marginal player and somehow thinking the team is on track to win more than 80 games. Cuddyer would be a great pick up...as a supporting addition in conjunction with other moves.


Agreed. My concern is that they'll pick up Cuddyer and call it a day on offensive additions. And if he gets injured or gets his ears caught in a mechanical rice picker, well, we're right back to healthy servings of den Dekker & Nieuwenhuis. I'd like Cuddyer, if they get him, to be a better-hitting Eric Campbell, playing all over the place to give Wright, Duda, Granderson et al a rest. That means you still need to add an everyday outfielder. But the FO won't look at it that way. He'll be the every day left or right fielder. And that's my concern; just like they played Chris Young every day because they paid him a lot of money, they'll play Cuddyer every day to justify the expenditure.

I want this roster shaken up a little more than just adding a 36-year-old FA.

Ceetar
Oct 24 2014 11:12 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

TransMonk wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
I mean, the Mets aren't going make only one move regardless.

In my heart, I believe and hope this to be true...but this statement is not a certainty.

Presumed health and internal roster machinations haven't gotten the job done over the past 6 years. Am I being greedy for wanting more than a handful of extra wins?


Has there ever been a season where the 12 of the 13ish offensive players from last year return for next year?

Edgy MD
Oct 24 2014 11:38 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I'll give it a shot.

1985 to 1986:

1985 Rank/Dude/1985 Plate Appearances/1986 Status

[list]1 Keith Hernandez 682 Returned
2 Gary Carter 633 Returned
3 Wally Backman 574 Returned
4 Rafael Santana 564 Returned
5 George Foster 504 Returned
6 Darryl Strawberry 470 Returned
7 Howard Johnson 428 Returned
8 Mookie Wilson 367 Returned
9 Danny Heep 305 Returned
10 Ray Knight 290 Returned
11 Lenny Dykstra 273 Returned
12 Kelvin Chapman 159 Released in the offseason, replaced (in effect) by Tim Teufel
13 John Christensen 133 Traded in the Ojeda deal, replaced (in effect) by Kevin Mitchell[/list:u]

Almost!

In 1986-1987, we lose both Foster and Mitchell. (Even though Foster was already gone, he'd still finish in the top 13 for 1986.)

Ceetar
Oct 24 2014 11:43 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

And those were good teams!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 24 2014 12:14 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I'll go out on a limb and say it, and I don't think I'm being overly optimistic or unrealistic: on a team with the Mets' pitching/outfield defense, the Cuddyers of the world-- plus 1 or 2 more additions like him, anyway-- will likely be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs.

(And I say, like the Rays, if you're moving young pitching, move it for something forward-looking, in the absolute right deal. Don't push Colon or Murphy out the door until someone's ringing the bell for him.)

86-Dreamer
Oct 24 2014 02:01 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
I'll go out on a limb and say it, and I don't think I'm being overly optimistic or unrealistic: on a team with the Mets' pitching/outfield defense, the Cuddyers of the world-- plus 1 or 2 more additions like him, anyway-- will likely be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs.

(And I say, like the Rays, if you're moving young pitching, move it for something forward-looking, in the absolute right deal. Don't push Colon or Murphy out the door until someone's ringing the bell for him.)



Based on historical dWAR, Cuddyer appears to be a pretty poor outfielder. If he was the only significant position player upgrade, I fear our already replacement level defense would be worse, with the offense only marginally improved.

Lefty Specialist
Oct 24 2014 05:52 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Unless Juan Lagares can cover the outfield line to line, they've got a relatively poor outfield defense. Granderson will get to things but he has a noodle arms, which is why they want to move him to left.

Edgy MD
Oct 24 2014 07:15 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Got the best center fielder in the world. What the hell you want? Eggs in your beer?

Ashie62
Oct 24 2014 07:35 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I truly believe the 2015 Mets have grown to be considered a "win now" team. Sandy Alderson, yeah you! dare to be different and make the one or two moves that may pave the way to a bigass parade on Broadway next October.

Cuddyer is capable and within the teams means but think bigger. Shoot for Yoenis Cespedes. Yes he will cost a lot of cash and a very good pitcher. Bat David Wright third in front of Yoenis and David can concentrate on driving in the key RBI. He will have some help in the on deck circle. Why am I big on Cespedes? I see him emerging the way Mike Stanton has. It helps that he is a friggin physical monster.

While we are at it Sandy, I don't know if Muffy has much trade value but it is time for Flores to get the gig at 2B and find a SS who is an offensive weapon who might be available. Think Starlin Castro.

Whatever the Mets might be thinking, let it be bigger.

We are that close.

LGM

Lefty Specialist
Oct 24 2014 07:48 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

YESpedes.

Frayed Knot
Oct 24 2014 09:22 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Y'know, for all of Cepedes's rep and ASG/HR contest wins, he's a sub-.300 OBA guy over the past two seasons (1,200+ PAs) and just low/mid 20s in HRs.
Not that I'm against trying to get him but I'm not going to move heaven & earth to do so - especially as he's only signed for one year (FA after 2015).
I mean he was essentially Granderson this year with a few more XBHs plus a better arm, but also fewer walks and more outs.

seawolf17
Oct 25 2014 05:06 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I know. I remember looking at the stats when he was dealt and wasn't all that impressed. BUT he's only 26.

Frayed Knot
Oct 25 2014 06:23 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

seawolf17 wrote:
BUT he's only 26.


Turned 29 just last week according to BB-Ref -- DOB 10/18/95 -- plus, being Cuban, there's always the chance that he's a shade older than that even.
So the guess would be that he is what he is at this point. And while his career is obviously a smaller sample than most 29 y/o ballplayers, it's that 1st year line of .292/.356/.505 which is looking more like the outlier than the norm now that he followed it up with two near identical seasons of essentially .250/.300/.450 (.251/.298/.446 to be exact). That's not a bad ballplayer, especially when the arm and GG nomination are mixed in, but it hardly suggests a great one, particularly for a corner OFer, or one that would jive with Sandy's OBP-loving philosophy.

Edgy MD
Oct 25 2014 08:43 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

seawolf17 wrote:
BUT he's only 26.


Frayed Knot wrote:
Turned 29 just last week according to BB-Ref -- DOB 10/18/95 -- plus, being Cuban, there's always the chance that he's a shade older than that even.

That's a dramatic birthday. A little over-the-top on the partying.

Frayed Knot wrote:
So the guess would be that he is what he is at this point. And while his career is obviously a smaller sample than most 29 y/o ballplayers, it's that 1st year line of .292/.356/.505 which is looking more like the outlier than the norm now that he followed it up with two near identical seasons of essentially .250/.300/.450 (.251/.298/.446 to be exact). That's not a bad ballplayer, especially when the arm and GG nomination are mixed in, but it hardly suggests a great one, particularly for a corner OFer, or one that would jive with Sandy's OBP-loving philosophy.

That would be a disappointing season from Cuddyer.

When a ripped-right-down-to-the-ankles man arrives from a world outside the MLB testing universe, makes a big initial splash, and then falls back to earth in the following seasons, I tend to feel... cautious.

Ashie62
Oct 25 2014 09:30 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I love him. He has real guns for arms and no park is to big for him.

His HR's at the HR derby down the line looked like video game laser shots.

I am not going to let numbers and stats dissuade me.

I don't think its' a coincidence that when he left the A's offense went poof.

He will bring the Mets a "big scary guy slugger" element I have not seen since Straw, Kong and early David.

Do it!

Frayed Knot
Oct 25 2014 09:51 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 25 2014 12:24 PM

I love him. He has real guns for arms and no park is to big for him. -- Yet he didn't make either of the two parks he played in this year (one favoring pitchers, the other decidedly NOT) look all that small

His HR's at the HR derby down the line looked like video game laser shots. -- There's power, and then there's usable power. I'll give up the exhibition HRs in favor of real ones.

I am not going to let numbers and stats dissuade me. -- You mean you're not going to let what actually happens on the field dissuade you? You might at least want to consider it.

I don't think its' a coincidence that when he left the A's offense went poof. -- Take a middle of the lineup hitter out of any team and things will change. But it's still at least a partial coincidence

He will bring the Mets a "big scary guy slugger" element I have not seen since Straw, Kong and early David. -- Or Duda right now ... or Granderson in an average season for him .. or even d'Arnaud on a per/AB basis
A player should hit more than low-mid 20s before he earns a "Big scary slugger" moniker. I realize we're not in the 70/year era anymore, but a BSS should at least get more than that in three seasons.

Do it -- It depends on the price Ugarte, on the price.

Edgy MD
Oct 25 2014 11:40 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Carlos Delgado: big scary slugger.

Carlos Beltran: big scary slugger.

Mike Piazza: big scary slugger.

This guy at 27 and 28 has produced a tick below the level Eddie Murray did as a Met when he was a decade older.

Ashie62
Oct 25 2014 06:39 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Frayed Knot wrote:
I love him. He has real guns for arms and no park is to big for him. -- Yet he didn't make either of the two parks he played in this year (one favoring pitchers, the other decidedly NOT) look all that small

His HR's at the HR derby down the line looked like video game laser shots. -- There's power, and then there's usable power. I'll give up the exhibition HRs in favor of real ones.

I am not going to let numbers and stats dissuade me. -- You mean you're not going to let what actually happens on the field dissuade you? You might at least want to consider it.

I don't think its' a coincidence that when he left the A's offense went poof. -- Take a middle of the lineup hitter out of any team and things will change. But it's still at least a partial coincidence

He will bring the Mets a "big scary guy slugger" element I have not seen since Straw, Kong and early David. -- Or Duda right now ... or Granderson in an average season for him .. or even d'Arnaud on a per/AB basis
A player should hit more than low-mid 20s before he earns a "Big scary slugger" moniker. I realize we're not in the 70/year era anymore, but a BSS should at least get more than that in three seasons.

Do it -- It depends on the price Ugarte, on the price.


We are going to have to agree to just disagree.

Duda, Granderson or maybe d'Arnaud? That's for comic effect, right?

Frayed Knot
Oct 25 2014 07:53 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 26 2014 06:29 AM

Ashie62 wrote:
We are going to have to agree to just disagree.


Hey, I'm merely cautioning peeps about getting overly enamored of Cepedes on account of his first good season (which he's been unable to duplicate in the two years since) or on account of his prowess in what is essentially a glorified version of BP (the ASG HR contest).



Duda, Granderson or maybe d'Arnaud? That's for comic effect, right?


No, those are current NY Mets who hit HRs at rates similar to, or greater than, what Cespedes did this year despite your claims that the Mets haven't had a "scary slugger" like him since the days of Strawberry or Kingman.

d'Kong76
Oct 25 2014 07:58 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

This thread has changed, posters have to own what
they type... not just for a couple of hours.

Frayed Knot
Oct 26 2014 06:37 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

While we're on the Cepedes front in our OF search: Bill Madden suggests that the BoSox are willing to trade him this winter, probably for pitching help.
Seems that there were some initial discussions after the trade about a 4-5 year extension onto his original deal which runs out after 2015, but that Cepedes recently fired his agent and is now casting his lot with Jay-Z's 'Roc-Nation' agency with the intention of making a splash (a la Robinson Cano) as a FA a year from now. He also throws in nuggets about Cepedes's "open disenchantment" with Boston and his unwillingness to listen to coaches. “He marches to his own drum and the coaches all hate him,” said a Red Sox insider.

Ceetar
Oct 26 2014 08:16 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

The big scary slugger is Duda anyway.

MFS62
Oct 26 2014 08:37 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Ceetar wrote:
The big scary slugger is Duda anyway.

Nah. He's more like the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man in Ghostbusters. He still is big and powerful and can cause a lot of destruction. But he's kinda' cute and cuddly, not scary.

Later

Ashie62
Oct 26 2014 09:34 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

d'Kong76 wrote:
This thread has changed, posters have to own what
they type... not just for a couple of hours.


Not sure what this means.

Ashie62
Oct 26 2014 09:35 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

While we're on the Cepedes front in our OF search: Bill Madden suggests that the BoSox are willing to trade him this winter, probably for pitching help.
Seems that there were some initial discussions after the trade about a 4-5 year extension onto his original deal which runs out after 2015, but that Cepedes recently fired his agent and is now casting his lot with Jay-Z's 'Roc-Nation' agency with the intention of making a splash (a la Robinson Cano) as a FA a year from now. He also throws in nuggets about Cepedes's "open disenchantment" with Boston and his unwillingness to listen to coaches. “He marches to his own drum and the coaches all hate him,” said a Red Sox insider.


Poop.

Lefty Specialist
Oct 26 2014 11:08 AM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Well, I want him but not for a Cano-type deal. Poop seconded.

Still don't want Cuddyer except as an adjunct to a real acquisition.

Frayed Knot
Oct 26 2014 12:56 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

No real need to speculate about FA terms now as Cepedes is only available via a trade and as a one-year fix at the already set price of $10.5 mil as per his original contract.
That that initial deal runs out at the end of 2015 is the reason Oakland was willing to deal him in the first place and is again the reason (along with some less than impressed coaches apparently) why Boston is making him available now.

So adjust your trading proposals accordingly.

Edgy MD
Oct 26 2014 02:53 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Eveland straight up.

Be willing to throw in Satin if Boston balks. But only if they're willing to eat some $$.

seawolf17
Oct 26 2014 06:16 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

I would trade a young pitcher for the last year of Cespedes' deal, straight up. Montero or someone of that ilk.

If the team bombs, he and Colon are massive (HA!) trade chips over the summer.

TransMonk
Nov 10 2014 01:43 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season



This was on Facebook a moment ago. No scoop from Mets.com or Rubin yet, but looks like Cuddyer is headed to Queens.

Lefty Specialist
Nov 10 2014 02:35 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

2 years, $21 million.

Still need a shortstop. This can't be all you do, Sandy.

Edgy MD
Nov 10 2014 02:40 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Well, considering it's November 10th and they've already out-offseasoned about 29 other teams, I wouldn't be putting the screws to him so fast.

$21 million is about as advantageous a set of terms as the Mets could hope for. It's like a modestly younger, modestly healthier version of the Moises Alou signing.

Vic Sage
Nov 10 2014 03:33 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

i'm ok with this move. Until Conforto is ready, Cuddy can give Duda and Grandy a breather against LHPs, and the rest of the time he's in RF, with some ABs also going to who... Nieuhenheis?

CF - Lagares
2b - Murphy / Young (Herrera?)
3b - Wright
1b - Duda / Cambell
RF - Cuddy / Nieuhenheis (denDekker?)
LF - Grandy
C - D'arnaud / Recker
SS - Flores / Tejada

Cuddy will help (more than CYoung did, surely), but he's not a difference maker. Unfortunately, Lagares is the only + defender in that lineup. And though they'll have enough power now to occasionally score in bunches, they won't score consistently without a decent lead-off hitter. But if they could move Niese/Gee/Colon-type pitcher + Murphy for a better-than-average SS with leadoff skills, they could move Flores, Tejada or Herrera to 2b (any of whom would have more range), and then be more consistent on offense and cover more ground on defense.

Any SSs with a good glove and leadoff skills available? And if anybody says "Tejada" (I'm looking at you, Ceetar), i'll have to hunt you down and kill you slowly.

Ceetar
Nov 10 2014 03:52 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

There is no such thing as 'leadoff skills' Just get a goodish hitter.


I sorta favor playing Wright leadoff actually. high OBP, not slow, hasn't really been hitting for home run power but is still one of the guys you want up most often.

Otherwise I also kinda like Lagares there.

Edgy MD
Nov 10 2014 08:21 PM
Re: WANTED: 36 yo of'er coming off a partial season

Ceetar wrote:
There is no such thing as 'leadoff skills' Just get a goodish hitter.
Sure there is.

Ceetar wrote:
I sorta favor playing Wright leadoff actually. high OBP, not slow, hasn't really been hitting for home run power but is still one of the guys you want up most often.

You're describing leadoff skills.