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Non-clever poll on the Benson trade

What do you think of the Benson/Julio/Maine trade?

I love the Benson/Julio/Maine trade!	1 votes
I like the Benson/Julio/Maine trade.	4 votes
I have no opinion.	6 votes
I dislike the Benson/Julio/Maine trade.	10 votes
I hate the Benson/Julio/Maine trade!	9 votes

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 11:47 AM

Let's try it again with more traditional choices...

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 01:29 PM

I voted hate, and I think I've now voted for the cycle. I voted love for Delgado, like for Wagner, neutral for LoDuca, and I think I voted dislike for trading Seo for Sanchez. (It may have been hate, but I think it was dislike.)

ScarletKnight41 Jan 23 2006 01:32 PM

Dislike, but I'm not yet ready to say that I hate it. Dislike, but with an open mind.

metirish Jan 23 2006 01:33 PM

I voted 'dislike' but the Benson thread is making me hate him now....

sharpie Jan 23 2006 01:34 PM

Dislike. Hate way too strong.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 01:38 PM

I'm surprised; we have a vote for "love."

A Boy Named Seo Jan 23 2006 01:41 PM

I think the "love" vote was registered by our newest member "Two-bit Jorge".

cooby Jan 23 2006 01:42 PM

I'm more surprised that we have a vote for "no opinion"

seawolf17 Jan 23 2006 01:43 PM

Dislike. I know Benson's not Bob Gibson 1968, but Julio's too close to Other Bob Gibson 1984 for my tastes. Maine's the dealbreaker, I think. Too early to tell. I popped open real Bob Gibson's b-r.com page before submitting this... look at these World Series stats: 9 games started 8 complete games 81 innings (the one game he didn't complete, in '64, was Game 2; he went eight. He went ten innings for the complete game W in Game 5) 0.889 WHIP 1.89 ERA SICK.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 01:53 PM

Delgado: 60% liked, 20% loved, 11% disliked, 3% no opinion. Wagner: 56% liked, 28% loved, 9% disliked, 6% no opinion. LoDuca: 46% disliked, 21% liked, 19% no opinion, 7% loved, 4% hated. Seo: 46% disliked, 26% hated, 20% liked, 6% no opinion.

Edgy DC Jan 23 2006 01:56 PM

Plus he had two homeruns. One of the best parts of the Gibson story is that he took a year off before starting his baseball career to tour with the Harlem Globetrotters.

MFS62 Jan 23 2006 01:56 PM

I hit "dislike". I would have preferred it if they got rid of Zambrano and kept Benson. Later

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 01:59 PM

I'm filled with hate right now.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 02:04 PM

This offseason is trending in an interesting direction: Delgado: 80% positive, 11% negative. Wagner: 84% positive, 9% negative. LoDuca: 28% positive, 50% negative. Seo: 20% positive, 72% negative. Benson (so far): 7% positive, 83% negative.

Centerfield Jan 23 2006 02:05 PM

If you throw Cameron/Nady in there to lead off, I'd suspect you'd probably start off with negative as well.

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:06 PM

From a trading perspective: Delgado was part of a fire sale and Wagner was a FA. Some one needs to smack Omar with a two by four.

sharpie Jan 23 2006 02:06 PM

I would hit "hate" only if I "loved" Benson. Which I didn't. He was ok. I liked him more when he was a Pirate but then found myself unimpressed as a Met. Julio I've never seen (that I can remember). I did see Maine while sitting at a bar with a MFY game on. He got shelled but not as shelled by the jokers who followed him.

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:07 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I'm surprised; we have a vote for "love." Another one who needs a smack with a two by four.

seawolf17 Jan 23 2006 02:10 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="Yancy Street Gang"]I'm surprised; we have a vote for "love." Another one who needs a smack with a two by four. Or maybe Jorge Julio's a member of the board.

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:10 PM

sharpie wrote: I would hit "hate" only if I "loved" Benson. Which I didn't. He was ok. I liked him more when he was a Pirate but then found myself unimpressed as a Met. Julio I've never seen (that I can remember). I did see Maine while sitting at a bar with a MFY game on. He got shelled but not as shelled by the jokers who followed him. For me, trading a starter for a non-closer reliever is almost an automatic hate. Throw in the fact that the reliever pitched in the high 5's for ERA last year and I don't care if I only like the starter. I hate the trade. You can't get much worse than this trade. It's gawd-awful. So you'd only hate a trade if Pedro was traded for a reliever with an ERA over 5? You need to be more hateful. NOTE: The above is a joke. I in no way wish to influence who sharpie hates.

Centerfield Jan 23 2006 02:13 PM

I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion...but I just don't see how anyone can vote for "love". Heilman may have done well as a reliever, but his starting numbers aren't as good as Benson's. Julio may be able to throw it through a brick wall, but his numbers aren't anywhere close to Heilman's. Meaning, we now have a weaker rotation and a weaker bullpen than we did Saturday morning.

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:15 PM

We now have a vote for like. What is with you people? If Bret reads this he's going to have a conniption fit.

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:15 PM

Centerfield wrote: I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion Normally I'd agree. But when it comes to baseball, opinions can be wrong.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 02:16 PM

We should also remember that hating a trade is different from hating a person. I wouldn't vote that I hated Jorge Julio, unless he does something truly hateful, which I don't anticipate. I think hate is a word that should be using very sparingly when applied to people, but in other contexts I don't really see anything wrong with it. I hate lima beans. I hate freezing rain. I hated that awful Lisa Kudrow show on HBO. And I hate this deal with the Orioles. Here's one for the prediction archives: Jorge Julio will be the next Mel Rojas. But even if that happens, I won't hate him. And I'm hoping that a few years from now, when John Maine has won a Cy Young and a World Series MVP award for the Mets, I'll look back and love this trade. But right now I'm thinking that John Maine will be John Mitchell and Julio will be Rojas. And that's why I voted hate.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 02:17 PM

I'd love to know who voted for love. And I'd also like to know who voted for like. Anyone care to step forward?

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:17 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jan 23 2006 02:21 PM

cooby wrote: I'm more surprised that we have a vote for "no opinion" "No opinion" is for weenies who don't want to vote until 5 years later when they can look at the numbers and decide what they thought of the trade. This is the genus from which the people who claim that it was okay to pass on Guerrero because they were concerned about his back hail from. _____________________ This post had the designation 77) Eddie Murray

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:19 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I wouldn't vote that I hated Jorge Julio, unless he does something truly hateful, which I don't anticipate. Didn't he once electrocute a small child in his swimming pool?

cooby Jan 23 2006 02:21 PM

Perhaps I am just in a good mood today, but this thread is funny

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 02:22 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 23 2006 02:23 PM

Elster88 wrote: Didn't he once electrocute a small child in his swimming pool? Haven't we all, at one time or another?

seawolf17 Jan 23 2006 02:23 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="Yancy Street Gang"]I wouldn't vote that I hated Jorge Julio, unless he does something truly hateful, which I don't anticipate. Didn't he once electrocute a small child in his swimming pool? Wasn't that Mariano Rivera?

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:23 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I hated that awful Lisa Kudrow show on HBO. I figured it would suck, though I never watched it. She was by far the least funny from Friends.

cooby Jan 23 2006 02:29 PM

Yancy, I almost laughed in this guy's ear.

sharpie Jan 23 2006 02:34 PM

Well, I don't hate lima beans and I haven't seen the Lisa Kudrow show but I do hate freezing rain. Reading Edgy's "Being John Maine" thread makes me hate this trade less. I'm firmly in the dislike mode but if Maine ends up bumping Victor Zambrano from the rotation and Julio doesn't suck (gotta stop giving up those homers, Julio) then this one might work out 'cause I don't think Kris is ever going to be a world-beater.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 23 2006 02:36 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 23 2006 02:40 PM

I voted no opinion, but really indifferent would've been more appropriate. I think under the criteria stated, that makes me a weenie, but trading a mediocre pitcher for a reliever who's pitched crappy, but has potential, and a 24-year old prospect who is major league ready doesn't seem like such a huge freaking catastrophe. Benson's hole is already filled by someone who should be able to match his 175 IP and ERA over 4, and may even perform better than that. Julio may turn out to be a wonderful set-up man and if he doesn't, the Mets have a crapload of other relievers to turn to. John Maine looks like a fine, major league ready prospect. Whatever. And isn't waiting until 5 years later, when there's actually some data to examine, the better way to evaluate a trade anyway then getting all charged up and saying that a person who plays this position getting traded for a player who plays this position is an automatic hate?

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:40 PM

Weenie. NOTE: This is meant in a light-hearted manner, as was the post where I stated "no opinion" voters are "weenies."

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 02:43 PM

="A Boy Named Seo"]And isn't waiting until 5 years later, when there's actually some data to examine, the better way to evaluate a trade anyway then getting all charged up and saying that a person who plays this position getting traded for a player who plays this position is an automatic hate? Yes. Fortunately, I said "almost" an automatic hate. Besides, this isn't a poll asking for scientific evaluation of a trade. This is a poll asking how do you feel right now about this trade, in order to stimulate conversation. Why bother with "no opinion"? Take a stand. Unless you really are completely indifferent to having Maine and Julio instead of Benson in the Mets' organization? "Completely indifferent" meaning, if someone asked you (as GM) who you'd rather have, you'd flip a coin.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 23 2006 02:48 PM

True, it's easier to evaluate a trade with several years of hindsight. And I suppose it might be fun to post polls about transactions from five years ago. (I love the Kevin Appier signing! I hate the Kevin Appier signing!) But General Managers have to make the deals without benefit of hindsight, and I don't think it's unfair, after a deal is made, to give it an instant evaluation. Some deals would probably get the same evaluation years later (Keith Hernandez) and others might get very different results. (Roberto Alomar.)

Lundy Jan 23 2006 03:11 PM

I voted like. I like it that the Mets are more balanced team right now. Last year it got kind of crowded when Steve Trachsel came back. If in fact we're done dealing, it's a clear sign to Heilman that he's got a slot in the rotation. That's good. And I think Kris Benson is overvalued. He really hasn't pitched like a No.1 overall draft pick, either with the Pirates or the Mets. He's really been a mediocre pitcher who I think we're overvaluing because of his draft status and his attention-grabbing wife. As for Jorge Julio--relivers get no respect. With starters going six innings max becoming the norm, their importance cannot be ignored. Whether or not he becomes the next Mel Rojas or the next Roberto Hernandez remain to be seen. But on paper, we're much better in the bullpen than last year. Add in John Maine, and what he can potentially give us, and I think it's a good deal.

Nymr83 Jan 23 2006 03:16 PM

]As for Jorge Julio--relivers get no respect his numbers DESERVE no respect.

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 03:19 PM

Lundy wrote: But on paper, we're much better in the bullpen than last year. We are weaker in the bullpen after making this trade, as per the reasoning in CF's post at the top of this thread.

Johnny Dickshot Jan 23 2006 03:35 PM

I cast the first "no opinion" vote, mainly for the reasons that BNS articulated above but also because this particular deal still seems to me as if its part off something else we don't know enough about yet. Yeah, it's weenielike, but I know enough to know when I don't know enough. Like, I can't figure out why they have Maine: It frankly seems un-Met-like to go get a young pitcher with optimistic upside for a veteran pitcher with predictability: They hardly ever go do a thing like that, and most often do the opposite. Now that they did, what are we to think? That they changed their outlook on the fly, that the ambition to create a pennant winner in Pedro's remaining effectiveness switched suddenly to a re-build mode? I'm not buying it. Did they really need another arm in the pen? It seems, absent of another move, that all the Mets did was shift their overpopulation problem from the rotation to the pen -- again, makes little sense on the surface, which is why I'm almost sure there's more to come.

metsmarathon Jan 23 2006 04:14 PM

so this trade may have removed an overpriced arm from our rotation and replaced him with a better one, replaced a very good arm in our bullpen with a talented if unproductive arm with more bullpen experience, and added a talented young starter. so i think it may have made us a better, more well-rounded team. my only source of displeasure is the notion that we traded kris benson for jorge julio, and that doesnt seem to be enough in return. but, of course, that's not the trade we made. we also got maine. and so that tempers my dislike. i may even be moving onto the less-occupied side of neutral, with a healthy hoping that julio doesnt suck.

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 04:42 PM

]trade may have removed an overpriced arm from our rotation and replaced him with a better one The addition of another starter has not been finalized yet. It ain't gonna be Zito.

Rotblatt Jan 23 2006 04:53 PM

]Didn't he once electrocute a small child in his swimming pool? That was hilarious, Elster.

metsmarathon Jan 23 2006 05:04 PM

Elster88 wrote: ]trade may have removed an overpriced arm from our rotation and replaced him with a better one The addition of another starter has not been finalized yet. It ain't gonna be Zito. i believe heilman to be a better starter than benson. this trade freed heilman from the pen, giving him bensons slot in the rotation. there are no zito contingencies attached to my opinion.

Elster88 Jan 23 2006 05:09 PM

Heilman is a better starter than Benson based on what?

metsmarathon Jan 23 2006 05:24 PM

pretend the above sentence is written in the future tense.

Vic Sage Jan 23 2006 05:59 PM

hatehatehatehatehatehatehate... hate.

seawolf17 Jan 23 2006 06:12 PM

I don't think Norrin likes this deal.

TheOldMole Jan 23 2006 06:21 PM

Is "no opinion" the same as "reserve judgment"? Anyway, that's what I put.

Zvon Jan 23 2006 08:34 PM

This ones easy. Dislike as it stands now.

Elster88 Jan 24 2006 09:15 AM

TheOldMole wrote: Is "no opinion" the same as "reserve judgment"? Anyway, that's what I put. "No opinion" is the same as "I am a weenie." NOTE: THE ABOVE LINE IS A JOKE. I IN NO WAY THINK THAT THEOLDMOLE IS A WEENIE, HOT DOG, KIELBASA, OR ANY OTHER SAUSAGE PRODUCT.

Nymr83 Jan 24 2006 09:26 AM

no opinion is what you say when they trade heath bell for rick white....its just a who cares kind of trade. obviously you can reserve judgment but do you really not have an initial reaction abouthow it is going to turn out?

*62 Jan 25 2006 07:42 AM

"Like". This trade didn't happen in a vacuum ......... something else is around the corner, IMO.

TheOldMole Jan 25 2006 07:44 AM

I like to think of myself as a cocktail weenie.

TheOldMole Jan 25 2006 07:48 AM

Seriously, that's why I modified the language. I don't have no opinion; I am reserving judgment. I'll miss Anna. I'll miss having two pitchers that look like Tom Glavine. I hate it when anyone gets traded. But I don't know whether this will be a good or bad deal for the Mets. I don't buy the "they're not through" reasoning, though. "Let's trade some of our good players for not-so-good players, because later we plan to trade our not-so-good players for good players"?

Bret Sabermetric Jan 25 2006 08:16 AM

Polling options on trades for Mets fans 1) It's great 2) I love it 3) It's an improvement 4) It's very good 5) I reserve judgment--it's part of a bigger, smarter deal 6) it's so dumb that it's got to be part of a bigger, smarter deal so it's ok 7) It's so offensively, stupidly, moronically designed that it just HAS to be a prelude to the world's cleverest deal ever--I support it

seawolf17 Jan 25 2006 09:22 AM

Bret, less than a quarter of the people who voted in this poll are favorable towards this trade. So save your generalizations for another discussion.

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2006 09:40 AM

Well depends on which generalizations he's referring to; - the ones like this one where Met fans are mocked as relentlessly positive Kool-Aid drinkers - or the ones (like from 4 days ago) where they're described as being conditioned towards negativity and given to "ignorant bashing" Depends on the agenda du jour I suppose.

Elster88 Jan 25 2006 09:57 AM

metsmarathon wrote: pretend the above sentence is written in the future tense. Huh? You lost me. I'm just curious why you're thinking Heilman will be a better pitcher than Benson.

Elster88 Jan 25 2006 10:04 AM

]I don't buy the "they're not through" reasoning, though. "Let's trade some of our good players for not-so-good players, because later we plan to trade our not-so-good players for good players"? I agree. 1000%. I say judge the trade as is. Then later, when something is done you can always change your opinion. My favorite example: I was totally against the Pedro signing at first. I thought we were overpaying and that he would be shot towards the end of the contract. But then Beltran said that one of the main reasons he came to the Mets was because Pedro was here. So at the point I thought to myself that it was worth it to overpay if we got Beltran too. Being the non-weenie that I am, I said that I hated the Pedro pickup at first. Then I went back after Beltran signed and said "Hey look, there's new evidence. I will reevaluate my judgement." I have to agree with Bret on this one, assuming the bad move is a prelude to a good move doesn't work. I can almost understand that people are saying they are going to reserve judgement until they see if we get another pitcher, though I tease them and call them weenies. But some people are going so far as to say they LIKE the trade because it must mean there's something more to come. Pure idiocy. You know what you do when you assume, don't you?

Rockin' Doc Jan 25 2006 01:10 PM

The more I think about this trade, the more I dislike it. Benson wasn't great, but he was a serviceable fourth or fifth starter. We traded him for a reliever that really hasn't been very successful the past few years and a prospect that wasn't moving up within the Orioles list of prospects. From what I have read, it seems that Maine has a rather limited upside. Other than clearing some salary, I don't see where the Mets accomplished much with this move.

Elster88 Jan 25 2006 03:15 PM

The concensus by the radio "analysts" is salary dump and, possibly, the removal of Anna. I quote the "analysts" because if there was something else in the scope of any sort of rational or irrational thought, (actually probably especially if it was irrational), you'd think one of them would've brought it up. But even with some of those whacked-out imaginations, all they can come up with is salary dump and Annabanishment. I think some here have lobbied that this trade makes the team better. And this argument has been made without the shaky assumption that another starter is going to join the team. Let's just say there might be some money to be had in bridge-selling.

RealityChuck Jan 26 2006 03:39 PM

No opinion, because it's too early to tell. Some have considered it potentially a pretty good trade. ([url]http://tinyurl.com/ds5ev[/url]) It's a gamble, but not an outrageous one.