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Bret

SwitchHitter Jan 29 2006 11:09 PM

I think I caught a form of whatever Bret has. I'm seriously questioning what it is I'm loyal to and whether I should (or even can) continue to be loyal to it. I'm beginning to see that Major League Baseball is more about money (and separating it from fans) than it is about baseball. I don't know if I want my money to go to support my chosen franchise (or any of the others for that matter). I suppose I could elect to not attend games or buy merchandise. But if I'm still watching, am I not tacitly approving of the whole enterprise? I'm wondering if the reason I'm continuing to call myself a fan is that so much of my social life, both on and off the Internet, revolves around my fandom. And I'm wondering whether I should just walk away from it all. At the same time, I'm thinking there's something wrong with me. All my friends like MLB and most of them like the same team I think I maybe do. Surely they know that it's really a business that happens to provide entertainment. So I'm having a mini crisis. Anyone have any thoughts?

Zvon Jan 29 2006 11:11 PM

then dont go to the stadium. Still root for the Mets tho.

metirish Jan 29 2006 11:12 PM

I am thinking the whole Bagwell situation might have you questiong things, it looks like a messy ending for him with Houston, is that a part of what is pissing you off?

SwitchHitter Jan 29 2006 11:19 PM

The thing that *really* pisses me off is that I don't even *like* Jeff Bagwell.

Zvon Jan 29 2006 11:21 PM

Bags is getting the pinetarry end of the bat in that situation.

smg58 Jan 29 2006 11:22 PM

I can't imagine that isn't pissing off every Astros fan. That's a horrible way to treat the guy who's been the face of your franchise for fifteen years. I know it's a lot of money to pay somebody who may or may not be able to play, but they signed the contract, they face the consequences. And since Bagwell's getting the money regardless, presumably he's trying to come back because he sincerely believes he's capable of playing and contributing, and I do think they at least owe him the benefit of the doubt.

Elster88 Jan 29 2006 11:31 PM

Baseball is a bunch of businessmen running a team trying to make a profit paying a bunch of businessmen a lot of money to play a game. This is nothing really new. There's not much you can do. Either accept it and watch, or don't. Regarding Bagwell, I'm on Bagwell's side. If he had signed a long term contract when salaries were low, they wouldn't be paying him extra. Fuck the owners. They can afford to pay him what the contract says.

KC Jan 30 2006 07:33 AM

>>>I think I caught a form of whatever Bret has.<<< Talk to your pharmacist, good thing you detected it early.

Bret Sabermetric Jan 30 2006 08:26 AM Re: Bret

SwitchHitter wrote: I think I caught a form of whatever Bret has. I'm seriously questioning what it is I'm loyal to and whether I should (or even can) continue to be loyal to it. This is, in my view (surprise!), a good thing for you, Annie. It's a great joy to root for things and people and teams that you like, but after a while, we identify with those things and people and teams without remembering what traits attracted us to do so in the first place. So this is a chance for you to re-assess what you enjoy and approve of, in the abstract. Maybe this assessment will lead you back to your Astros, maybe it will lead away from them, but it will ultimately lead to a better understanding of yourself. It's challenging, and a little scary, to no longer be that which you were. It's comforting to say "I'm a Mets fan" or "I'm a Democrat"--you belong to something bigger than yourself. But when the Mets or Democrats persistently behave in ways that disgust you, and violate the principles that drew you to them in the first place, aren't you being just lazy to continue supporting them and identifying with them, and lending your small weight to their end of the scales? The support of lazy people is what enables them to disregard your feelings in the first place. I don't want the Mets or the Democrats to say "Bret's part of our fan base, we don't have to do anything to get him to like us--he's committed to us whatever we do, so we no longer have to play smart hustling baseball, or take courageous enlightened positions on the issues of the day. Whatever stupid small-minded self-protective CYA positions we find it convenient to take, we know good ol' Bret will be there supporting our team." And I will--or would have, up to last season--because I was too damned lazy to question my beliefs. This is an opportunity for you to re-invent yourself. You are the woman who chooses to root for the Astros, if that's where you end up, not the hopeless junkie who roots for them out of some ancient habit. Maybe you'll discover that the time and energy you poured into the Astros you now have available for oil-painting, and that oil-painting gives you more pleasure than you've ever gotten from baseball. Maybe you'll learn that rooting for the Texas Rangers is more fulfilling than you ever thought possible. Maybe you'll learn that rooting against the Astros allows you to continue following them while feeling good about yourself. Maybe you'll find that having no rooting interest whatsoever adds to your enjoyment of baseball by letting you appreciate the play of both sides more fully. You'll never know unless you try. This crisis is an opportunity for you, and you should take the fullest advantage of it to re-define who are, which is a great pleasure to do.

soupcan Jan 30 2006 09:05 AM

Here's what I do - I like the game and I like the Mets. The players and owners however do not feel the same as I do about baseball. I look at it as a game with loyalties, etc. THey look at it as a money-making enterprise first and foremost. Its good if they win games but ultimately what they want most is money. So I will go games because I enjoy that, I will watch the games on TV and I will root for my team. What I do not do a lot of is buy merchandise with the team and/or MLB and/or 'Nike' or any other apparel maker displayed prominantly on it. In short I'll pay what I have to pay to get MY enjoyment out of it. After all, they are providing me with a form of entertainment and that's worth something, but I refused to be extensively gouged. So far that's working out okay. The problems however have to do with my 9 year-old who wants everything Mets-ian, Nike swoosh-adorned, etc. You do what you can to rationalize it in your own head.

seawolf17 Jan 30 2006 09:09 AM

Fandom, in a lot of ways, is like religion. I was raised Catholic; I was raised a Mets fan. As I got to college and started actually, honestly, exploring my own spirituality and looking at the Catholic Church and what it means to be Catholic, I realized that it was a bunch of hooey. I suppose it's the same thing here; you're indoctrinated into the Astros -- or Mets, or Phillies, or Manchester United, or whoever -- way of life. But when you stand back and really look at it, the warts become very clear. I'd say that it'd be impossible for me to give up baseball, or give up the Mets. I know that the owners and the players don't give a crap about us, the fans, as long as we're buying shirts and baseball cards and tickets and hats and bobbleheads and everything else. And I guess I'll keep doing that, because I enjoy watching the game, and talking about the game, and playing fantasy baseball, and being a part of the CPF, and collecting little pieces of cardboard with pictures on them. But if the day comes that I don't enjoy it, that I really don't want to put in the effort, then who knows? It's not easy to break with sports, Annie, and it takes a strong person to really think about what has become second nature.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 30 2006 09:31 AM

I also was raised in the Catholic church and used to believe its teachings. When I got older I questioned those beliefs and found that they didn't stand up to scrutiny. So I dropped Catholicism and religion entirely. I never enjoyed going to church; it was a chore and an obligation, and I was glad to be free of it. Baseball (and the Mets) is a different story. It's always been about the enjoyment. (Going to Shea doesn't ensure salvation in the afterlife.) I used to follow baseball a lot more closely than I do now. (I have no idea who played shortstop for San Diego last year. In 1976 I could have told you the starting eight for every team in the major leagues.) At some point (well before the 1994 strike) I decided that I was no longer interesting in paying that much attention. So now I pretty much just follow the Mets. (I do know who their shortstop was last year.) If I find that it's no longer enjoyable, I'll cut back on the Mets. Or stop entirely. I don't expect that that will happen, but I've seen enough change in my life as I grow older that I can't completely rule out the possibility either. My advice to Annie is to remember that rooting for a team, or following a sport, is a diversion. If you enjoy it, keep doing it. If you want to spend money on the Astros, spend as much as you think is worth your while. If you don't want to spend money, but enjoy following them for free on TV, radio, Internet, and in your local papers, then do that. But if you truly disapprove of the whole enterprise, and are only doing this out of peer pressure, because all your friends are Astros fans, then it's probably time to find another diversion. There's a lot out there, and taking up oil painting, or learning Portuguese, or tennis lessons, or whatever, will only make you more well-rounded. If anything, you'd be more interesting, if not to your current friends but to new ones, rather than less. This shouldn't be too hard a choice. If you enjoy the Astros, stick with them. If you don't, back off, either a little bit or completely. There's no point rooting for a baseball team if your heart's not at all into it.

Bret Sabermetric Jan 30 2006 09:40 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: This shouldn't be too hard a choice. The hard part, Yancy, is not intellectual and therefore isn't really a choice. The hard part is that it feels strange at first. Annie might know it's right to turn her back on the Astros, but it just feels wrong to her. It's very confusing at first to be cast off from the place where you felt most comfortable for decades.

ScarletKnight41 Jan 30 2006 10:16 AM

Annie - why did you become an Astros fan in the first place? For me, my connection with the Mets is a family thing. My mother and my late grandfather were huge Brooklyn Dodgers fans, and they rooted for the Mets from the start. It's hard for me to separate baseball from this connection. In fact, the other day, on the A Propos of Nothing thread I wrote about the time that I felt like my son was channeling my grandfather when he was yelling at Mo Vaughn ;) I don't have many lasting links to my grandfather, who passed away 30 years ago this month, so a part of me can never sever the tie with the Mets because it would be like severing my last tie with him. Keep in mind that taking a break from a team isn't the same as leaving entirely. Many of us on this board took a break from the Mets following June 15, 1977 (the darkest day in Mets history). But, ultimately, the Mets are our team, and we returned (especially after the evil ownership group sold the team). Whatever you decide, it has to feel right for you. And what feels right for you today might not be what feels right for you tomorrow.

silverdsl Jan 30 2006 10:42 AM

There's definitely nothing wrong with you - many fans feel exactly the same way from time to time. Some get over it, others find a new passion to fill the time they once spent watching baseball. There is no doubt that money drives the sport as it does every other major sport. I've come to accept that for a lot of teams and MLB they really don't care too much about the fans as long as we continue to spend money on tickets and merchandise. I think both the teams and MLB should be doing way more to reach out to fans to prevent this kind of dissatisfaction but I suppose there will always be fans who will pour money into the sport so they aren't really concerned with the few who walk away. Personally, I still love the Yankees and the game of baseball. However, where I once went to 15+ games a season now I might only go to one - the expense has really gotten too much for me but maybe I've also lost some of the enthusaism that I had a few years ago. Once I used to rush home to make sure I missed as few Yankee games as possible, now I try to watch as many as I can but I don't rearrange my schedule around games anymore. As I noted above I don't care for the attitude towards the fans and as a Nascar fan, where they do everything they can to reach out to fans, it makes the MLB attitude really pale in comparision. The bottom line though is that you need to do whatever is best for you. If you've lost the passion for the game and for the Astros you can't force yourself to keep watching. But you may find that once spring training starts you might be surprised by how much you find yourself looking forward to opening day.

SwitchHitter Jan 30 2006 12:13 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: Annie - why did you become an Astros fan in the first place? I have the whole story on my website. Basically we took the kids to a game as a family activity and I started listening to games on the radio after that. Within a week, I was hooked. ]Whatever you decide, it has to feel right for you. And what feels right for you today might not be what feels right for you tomorrow. I think I'm going to find my DVD of the 18-inning NLDS game and see how I feel after I watch it.

SwitchHitter Jan 30 2006 05:35 PM

I never saw the end of that game before. We went out to eat to celebrate my son's birthday. Even though I knew the outcome, there were some tense moments when I was sure the Braves were going to score a run. I like baseball. I really do. And it's nice to have someone to pull for. Okay, I can't put a name to it, but I'm reminded why I'm a fan. Even if Roger Clemens got the win. Someone said that a fan is someone who hates the owners, hates the managers, hates the players but loves the team. I think I'm gonna be that kind of fan.

ScarletKnight41 Jan 30 2006 05:37 PM

Welcome back Annie :)