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Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Edgy MD Nov 14 2014 07:04 AM

Giancarlo Stanton, facial fractures and all, is the subject of much rumoring in the last 24 hours or so, with regard to a possible nine-year extension in the neighborhood of $300 million or more. I've got a Fox Sports report right here putting the package at $320 million over 12 years, which is a lot, you know, for a guy who wears a mass transit hat for a living. Twelve years!! Marlins GM Whathisface has denied that the two sides are close. Stanton has expressed public pissedoffedness in the past over his team's propensity to trade off his more highly paid teammates, sometimes all on the same day. Does he think things will be different this time?! I don't know! Two scary scenarios for a fan --- that your team has a player that good and won't lock him up, and that your team has a player that good and does lock him up, at the market rate.

MFS62 Nov 14 2014 07:27 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I would be very hesitant to offer any kind of long term deal to someone who has yet to prove there won't be (long term) effects from that beaning. Later

Frayed Knot Nov 16 2014 06:30 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

The Braves seemingly had the 2B spot filled after they promoted Tommy LaStella and played him virtually every day after pulling the plus on the disaster that was Dan Uggla. But the Braves today traded LaStella to the Cubs (who seemingly have middle IF prospects coming out of their ears) in exchange for pitcher Arodys Vizcaino. Vizciano had previously been a Braves' prospect until they dealt him to Chicago for Paul Maholm in mid-2012. After the trade Vizciano missed all of 2013 to injuries and this year relieved in just five games for the Cubs after spending most of the year in the minors. There was also some money that changed hands - not cash money but 'international trade slot money' that was swapped (in the Braves favor). IOW, Atlanta gained some ceiling for future international signings while Chicago gave up some.

Lefty Specialist Nov 17 2014 09:06 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Hard to figure that trade for the Cubs unless a lot more dominoes are falling.

Frayed Knot Nov 17 2014 10:13 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Hey man ... Heyman, and others, are reporting that the Marlins/Stanton deal is all set to happen at 13/$325 Be hard to find a deal for 10 years or longer that worked out for the club in the long run. - Jeter's, signed around age 27, did. - ARod played well enough for most of his original deal, but it was too high in money at the time (essentially the same per/year terms as this one but signed 14 years ago when finances aren't what they are today). - Tulowitski was similarly young like ARod & Stanton but has been too injured so far - and many of the other decade-long deals were signed to guys too old: Pujols, Cano, ARod V 2.0, Votto, Cabrera where it certainly looks like the club will regret them before too long. Stanton just turned 25 last week.

sharpie Nov 17 2014 10:40 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Jason Heyward and Jerome Walden to the Cards for Shelby Miller and minor leaguer Tyrrell Jenkins. Looks like a great trade for St. Louis. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11892 ... ll-jenkins

TransMonk Nov 17 2014 10:42 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

What are the odds that Stanton ends this contract as a Marlin? I'm guessing somewhere between "slim" and "none".

Edgy MD Nov 17 2014 11:24 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Hard to say where we'll be when we find out. I'll be 60 when that contract is completed.

TransMonk Nov 17 2014 03:02 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I thought the same when they signed Reyes. It only took one year for them to move on from him. I hope I'm wrong...the Marlins could use a long-term hero. But that is a lot of dough.

Frayed Knot Nov 17 2014 03:13 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Except that in this case Stanton has himself a complete N-T clause and the opt-out after Year #6 of the deal is apparently for the player only -- so while there's always the chance that he won't finish this entire contract with the Fishies in Miami, it can't end just on a change of heart by Loria and/or Marlin mgmt.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 17 2014 06:26 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Love those mid-deal opt-outs-- they completely forestall any chance that the team can ever get a year of the player's service at below-market rates.

Edgy MD Nov 18 2014 12:34 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Jayson Werth rendered in tinned fish.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 18 2014 01:22 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

You don't want to know how much Re2pect the New York Canstruction folk gave to a certain Captain.

Frayed Knot Nov 18 2014 02:53 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Braves to meet with Jon Lester

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2014 06:48 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Adam LaRoche [35 y/o; .259/.362/.455 in 2014] may be swapping NL East locations as the Marlins appear to be targeting him as their first upgrade in the Stanton-contract era. 33 y/o Garret Jones [.246/.309/.411] did most of the heavy lifting at 1B for Miami this past year.

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2014 03:06 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Just a bit of backloading (more like middle-loading) on Stanton's deal 2015:$6.5M, 2016:$9M, 2017:$14.5M 2018:$25M 2019:$26M 2020:$26M 2021:$29M 2022:$29M 2023:$32M 2024:$32M 2025:$32M 2026:$29M 2027:$25M 2028:$25M club option ($10M buyout)

Ceetar Nov 20 2014 03:08 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

The back 10 is very like A-Rod's except for Stanton being 3 years older.

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2014 09:19 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Ceetar wrote: The back 10 is very like A-Rod's except for Stanton being 3 years older. Yeah, except that this contract was done some 13 years later (really more like 16 years since we're talking about the back ten) so you need to factor in the inflation over that time. And besides, it wasn't the original 10-year contract w/ARod that was the problem, it was the second 10-year deal at which point ARod was some seven years older at the time of the signing.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2014 06:18 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Hasn't been a lot of wage inflation in the last 10 years, Great Recession and all.

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2014 06:51 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Inflation in baseball seems to move in fits and starts, sometimes related to the economic world in general but at other times seemingly independent of it. My overall point was that when ARod signed that first deal w/Texas it was paying him ~$25/yr at a time when no one else was getting close to that (I think Manny at $20/per was the leader in the clubhouse at the time) and it took almost all of the first seven years of that deal for the top market to catch up to him to a point where it made opting-out a reasonable gamble; nice timing on Boras's part. Stanton's deal at its signing, though huge in aggregate, is only at a per/yr par with a number of current players rather than 20-some percent ahead of the pack the way Rodriguez's was. So while Ceetar's right in that the raw numbers of years 4-13 look a lot like ARod's initial deal, in a way they're not the same because he's starting out running more or less even with the front of the pack rather than a lap ahead of everyone.

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 21 2014 07:28 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 21 2014 07:55 AM

Stanton is an outstanding player, to be sure. But am I alone in thinking that a 13-year deal to a guy who hasn't even won an MVP is a bit nuts?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 21 2014 07:35 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

It's insane. I think if you're lucky enough to get a player like Stanton when he's young, take the gift of his cheapness then trade him. I saw at least one analysis that suggested based on career trends, relative $, inflation etc., it's actually a good deal for the team but that's based on some awfully huge assumptions.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2014 07:47 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I think a 13-year deal to anybody may be nuts, and in particular a 13-year deal to somebody who finished the season with his face smashed. But the MVP standard seems a little arbitrary. Meanwhile, I spoke too soon, or more accurately, I spoke too broadly. The drag on salary growth is more over the last five years than the last 10. Average MLB Salary, 2005-2014 2014 $3,825,266 2013 $3,632,706 2012 $3,438,241 2011 $2,219,777 2010 $3,278,359 2009 $3,260,059 2008 $3,131,041 2007 $2,926,342 2006 $1,937,004 2005 $1,825,756 I slapped this together, but "1" represents 2005 and "10" represents 2014. Data certainly demonstrates the fits-and-starts phenomenon. We get one big start and one big fit.

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 21 2014 08:01 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I think a 13-year deal to anybody may be nuts, and in particular a 13-year deal to somebody who finished the season with his face smashed. But the MVP standard seems a little arbitrary. I understand what you are saying about the awards, especially ones voted on by writers. But what I was getting at was that the huge contracts of the past were handed to guys who had amassed considerable accomplishments -- Pujols, and even SkankRod. Stanton is an extraordinary masher, but do you put him at those levels yet? The idea of the Marlins, which struggle to attract fans even in a beautiful new park, devoting $30 million a year to one player just seems odd, especially given the team's history.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2014 08:09 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I think Stanton has had considerable accomplishments, yeah. Pujols, for instance, had seven historical years to start off his career, but had only won one MVP because the award was Barry Bonds' to lose. Jimmie Foxx was an astounding player from the age of 19, but his career coincided with Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig (and Hornsby's back end too). Who knows when his first MVP would have come? Stanton may not be the best bet over 13 years (and if he's great, he has that out clause, so the Marlins really can't win), but he's a better bet than Clayton Kershaw, MVP or no.

seawolf17 Nov 21 2014 08:13 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

The more I read about this deal, though, the more sense it makes for both sides. From Grantland: "And then there’s A-Rod, who signed his first 10-year deal heading into his age-25 season. If A-Rod had signed for 13 years, his contract, like Stanton’s, would have run through his age-37 season. And it would have worked out well: PED suspension aside, Rodriguez was still worth a roster spot in 2013." It's a six year, $107M deal at first, and then there's either an opt-out or a seven-year, $218 "option" after that. Obviously, if he gets hurt or something, the Fish are screwed, but when you put it in those terms, it's not entirely awful, and they do have a ton of financial flexibility on the front end.

Ceetar Nov 21 2014 08:16 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Stanton doesn't finish the season on the DL, he's the MVP this year. I had him above Kershaw in the IBWAA awards (with McCutchen first) He's worthy. And he's also a good defender and won't lose as much value as say A-Rod, via defense, at the tail end of that contract. somewhat stationary/aging outfielders aren't as big an impediment as stationary SS or even 3B. That sorta thing can be a drain on the wrong franchise though, but I'd put the odds at 85% that Stanton opts out and signs a new, more crippling contract.

Frayed Knot Nov 21 2014 08:19 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I understand what you are saying about the awards, especially ones voted on by writers. But what I was getting at was that the huge contracts of the past were handed to guys who had amassed considerable accomplishments -- Pujols, and even SkankRod. Stanton is an extraordinary masher, but do you put him at those levels yet? Stanton's makes more sense in a lot of ways than Pujols, or Cano, or ARod (second one anyway) because he's just hitting his prime (theoretically anyway). Doesn't mean it can't still backfire (see: Tulowitski, Troy) but the odds are better. The idea of the Marlins, which struggle to attract fans even in a beautiful new park, devoting $30 million a year to one player just seems odd, especially given the team's history. That's really the big question: whether the Marlins can now afford to put enough players around him to make it all worth while. It'll be easy now when they've got all those young (read: cheap) players [Fernandez, Yelich, Ozuna, etc.) and while Stanton's per/year numbers are still relatively low. Then there's the history where no team wins when one player is eating up more than X% of the total payroll and how high can the Marlins take that payroll? And finally there's doubt about whether the city of Miami will ever be a good pro sports town in this sport or any other.

Mets Guy in Michigan Nov 21 2014 08:43 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Stanton's makes more sense in a lot of ways than Pujols, or Cano, or ARod (second one anyway) because he's just hitting his prime (theoretically anyway). Doesn't mean it can't still backfire (see: Tulowitski, Troy) but the odds are better. I think the Cano deal will be a disaster down the road. The Tigers were lucky to sort of get out of the Fielder deal. An ambitious sportswriter could look at all the really long-term deals to see what percentage of them worked out.

Edgy MD Nov 21 2014 08:58 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Ceetar wrote: He's worthy. And he's also a good defender and won't lose as much value as say A-Rod, via defense, at the tail end of that contract. somewhat stationary/aging outfielders aren't as big an impediment as stationary SS or even 3B. I'll disagree here. A poor fielding shortstop has as much value as a solid fielding first baseman or left fielder --- and much more than a poor-fielding one --- and can certainly slide to another position.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 21 2014 09:03 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I also think Stanton hasta be on the juice.

Ceetar Nov 21 2014 09:09 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: He's worthy. And he's also a good defender and won't lose as much value as say A-Rod, via defense, at the tail end of that contract. somewhat stationary/aging outfielders aren't as big an impediment as stationary SS or even 3B. I'll disagree here. A poor fielding shortstop has as much value as a solid fielding first baseman or left fielder --- and much more than a poor-fielding one --- and can certainly slide to another position. well, this gets into nitty gritty stuff, but I still think WAR and various defensive measures are overvaluing defense in general and the difference between SS and OF specifically. Only 2 SS had lower DEF (which is adjusted to position) on fangraphs than Stanton last year. So that agrees with you, i'm just a little skeptical. It's why I'm skeptical of using Flores at SS (though if you're going to give me the likely much better hitter Hanley Ramirez there, I'm much more convinceable) But that's not quite what I meant, I mean that I think the defensive tools needed to play the outfield degrade less and slower than those at SS. That Stanton's defensive value is a more stable commodity than A-Rod's was. And yes, moving is always possible, particularly for these types of guys. A-Rod, Stanton, etc are all excellent athletes that you'd expect to prevail wherever you put them. John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I also think Stanton hasta be on the juice. Well hell, he's passing the tests, so good for him. It'd be nice to know what type of long term damage the juice might or might not be doing though, in terms of valuation.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2014 06:45 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

On the Nats and the recent departure of LaRoche: that team is the subject of an increasing amount of rumors and they could wind up being surprisingly active this winter for a front-running squad that seemingly has most of their lineup set. Their biggest problem is that they’re looking at a bunch of FAs after 2015, namely the pitching half of their Zimmermann twins, plus starter Doug Fister, reliever Tyler Clippard, SS Ian Desmond, and CF Denard Span. Zimmermann in particular is the subject of a lot of talk and it seems increasingly possible that they'll start the season without either him or Fister and that they’ll listen to offers on Desmond as well. Now one would assume that they’ll need to be blown away on any of these guys and aren’t simply in dump mode. But it is kind of an acknowledgement by them that, after 280 wins over the last three seasons yet not a single playoff round victory to show for it, the window is starting to close on this group (Strasburg & catcher Ramos can go FA the year after next). So they figure that, rather than seeing them turn, Philly-like, into an old-timers convention all at once, it’s better to start re-tooling on the fly even if it means getting rid of players still in their prime while the team is in the midst of riding high. As for what they’d be looking for: a middle infielder (more than one if Desmond goes) ML-ready pitching to replace whatever they’re giving up, plus young catchers and/or OFs for the future.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 23 2014 06:47 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Gammo said they may also be the next stop for Max Scherzer.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2014 07:58 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Which would certainly give them the freedom to move one of their current hurlers in order to restock elsewhere. In fact, if they sign him (or Lester) they'd pretty much have to deal one of their incumbents.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2014 06:35 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Marlins acquire RHP Aaron Crow from KC in exchange for minor league pitchers Brian Flynn and Reid Redman. Crow, 28, who had twice been a 1st round draft pick (10th by Nats in 2008 but didn't sign, then 12th by Royals in '09), was relieving with KC but could be tried as a starter.

Frayed Knot Dec 02 2014 06:35 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

They were to both be in Atlanta's starting rotation last season, but a second Tommy John surgery for each knocked Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy out for the year and now out of a contract as both were non-tendered by the Braves today. They can still re-sign with Atlanta (or with anyone else) but this gets the Braves out of the arbitration process and any guarantees that come with it. Medlen had been one of only two pitchers -- Clayton Kershaw was the other -- to compile a sub-2.50 ERA over a 40 start stretch from mid-2012 through the end of 2013

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2014 05:39 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Braves sign Markakis. Weird. 4 years $44 million.i didn't realize he was a Georgia boy but he is. So he's the new RF; step down from Heyward but perhaps not a big one. They also signed erstwhile closer Jim Johnson to a 1 year deal.

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2014 06:41 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Long Island boy by birth actually (Glen Cove) but, yeah, Georgia for both HS and college. Went to HS in the next county outside the future Braves home of Cobb County. There was long the feeling in Baltimore that O's owner Peter Angelos was determined to always hang onto Markakis on account of them both being Greek, but I guess even those kinds of connections have their breaking point.

Edgy MD Dec 03 2014 08:06 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Too bad. Markakis was quite the Camden Yards folk hero. No me gusto Cobb County. I'm sure they have plenty of perfectly nice people, but they sure seem to lead the nation in political resolutions enacted behind closed doors.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 03 2014 10:49 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Hel' me out, guysh... am I drunk, or ish dat, ish dat... well, daaaaas jus' a lotta outfeelers dey got out dere, innit?

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2014 06:53 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Well for the moment anyway he merely replaces Heyward in RF so they've got the same number of OFs they had last year. The logjam comes if/when they try to shoe-horn Evan Gattis into LF at which point they'll have to deal away an Upton or two.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2014 07:21 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Markakis is a good hitter and maybe a bit underrated but his deal makes Cuddyer's look all the better.

Lefty Specialist Dec 04 2014 07:29 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Hm. Don't see how this offseason has made the Braves any better, and has arguably made them worse. Gattis in LF will be an adventure.

MFS62 Dec 04 2014 07:29 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Frayed Knot wrote: The logjam comes if/when they try to shoe-horn Evan Gattis into LF at which point they'll have to deal away an Upton or two. From the NY Post: The Braves have already received attractive trade proposals for outfielder Justin Upton, With several free agents off the board, a deal could come together soon, per Joel Sherman, possibly during the upcoming Winter Meetings. The team’s addition of free agent Nick Markakis would appear to increase the odds of the club dealing Upton and/or Evan Gattis, though its final course remains unclear. If there's going to be a bunch of Uptons available out there, I'd still take Kate. Later

Lefty Specialist Dec 04 2014 08:55 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

MFS62 wrote: If there's going to be a bunch of Uptons available out there, I'd still take Kate. Later Can she play short? She could probably out-hit Tejada, and if she couldn't, well, who would notice?

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2014 09:26 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: [Braves] also signed erstwhile closer Jim Johnson to a 1 year deal. It took me half a day to realize that this was the ex-Baltimore closer rather than former Marlin starter Josh Johnson.

d'Kong76 Dec 05 2014 11:56 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

This is odd... CBS wrote: Newly-acquired Braves outfielder Nick Markakis is leaning toward opting for surgery to repair a bulging disc in his neck, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. Braves were aware of the injury, and prior to signing Markakis to a four-year, $44 million deal, members of the front office viewed a report from an independent specialist who evaluated him in the offseason. If Markakis opts for surgery, he will need approximately 12 weeks of recovery and should be on track to be ready come opening day.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 05 2014 01:27 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

This one was on the money: Here's the Baseball Prospectus entry from its 2014 annual on Marlins phenom Jose Fernandez, released just before last season began: As Sam Miller wrote on Baseball Prospectus ... "a team that won 31 percent of its games with any other starter won 64 percent of its games when Fernandez started. When he was on the mound, a 110-loss team became a 100-win team." Brought up to the majors after not throwing a pitch above Single-A (and few even at that level), Fernandez arrived packing a 99 mph four-seamer and two plus off-speed offerings. He showed the ability to absolutely dominate - in consecutive starts around the trade deadline, he struck out a total of 27 and walked one, with 40 swinging strikes - and the ability to avoid big innings, allowing more than three runs in just three starts. He had a 1.50 ERA in his final 18 starts, and the second best ERA+ in history by a starter younger than 21. That sick anxiety you have about him getting injured because every pitcher does? We all have it.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2014 10:02 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Jason Werth sentenced to 10 days in the slammer for driving his Porsche 100 mph on the Beltway.

Edgy MD Dec 06 2014 08:04 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

The interesting part of it to me is that Mr. Check-Out-My-Man-of-Substance-Beard-Don't-I-Look-Like-I-Chop-Wood-Like-My-Grandfather is tooling around in a Porsche.

Ceetar Dec 06 2014 09:17 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I want to know why the cop thought a Porsche driving fast (and one who complied instantly with the sirens) necessitated taking out his gun.

bmfc1 Dec 07 2014 08:44 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Big brain Rizzo is trying to balance winning in 2015 with all the FA's that they will have in the near future: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spor ... ry-little/

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 07 2014 10:16 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Ceetar wrote: I want to know why the cop thought a Porsche driving fast (and one who complied instantly with the sirens) necessitated taking out his gun. In all fairness to the cop, with that beard, it's REALLY hard to tell whether Werth is black or not. And I'm with Edge. Whither the platinum-rimmed F-150, Grizz?

Frayed Knot Dec 08 2014 07:04 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Hel' me out, guysh... am I drunk, or ish dat, ish dat... well, daaaaas jus' a lotta outfeelers dey got out dere, innit? And they've just added another one, signing 25 y/o Cuban OF Dian Toscano to a major league contract.

Edgy MD Dec 08 2014 07:28 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

He's just what this world needs. [youtube:2m59b006]XjnNERIy0HI[/youtube:2m59b006]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 08 2014 09:00 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

yknow those guitars that are like double guitars?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 08 2014 11:17 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Dian Toscano? That's the one where they take the beefsteak, flambee it, compare it to Andruw Jones unfavorably, make subtly racist remarks about it when it underperforms, and then add some basil and parmesan and the neverending salad bowl besides, right?

Frayed Knot Dec 12 2014 10:23 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Nats deal away LHP Ross Detwiler to Texas for a pair of A-ball minor leaguers. Detwiler was a one-time top draft pick (6th overall, 2007) who seemed to be on his way after decent seasons in 2012-13, but then was nudged to bullpen by Tanner Roark and eventually left off the playoff roster in 2014.

Edgy MD Dec 12 2014 11:04 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

#6 overall dudes. Barry Bonds was one, Derek Jeter was one, and Zach Greinke was one too. But the Mets have never struck on a #6. The big sixes from Mets history: Geoff Goetz (1997), Tim McMannon (1982, January edition), and Butch Benton (1975). WtF is Tim McMannon? They've had modest production out of overall #6's that other teams have drafted who have eventually come to the Mets (Gary Sheffield [1986], Kevin McReynolds [1981], Kelvin Chapman [1977]) but not always (McKay Christensen [1994]), Tom Grieve [1966]). Here's hoping Zach Wheeler (2009) is part of the former group, only better. That #6 position is probably kinda tricky. You fool yourself into thinking that drafting there is high enough to put you mostly-can't-miss category. but you still have to be smart. More of those sixes were fumbled away than would seem to be healthy. Still though, Barry Bonds.

Frayed Knot Dec 22 2014 11:51 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 23 2014 09:50 PM

Big-butted Heath Bell gets a minor league deal/camp invite from ... the Washington Nationals

Frayed Knot Dec 23 2014 09:50 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

And speaking of aging relievers, 38 y/o Jason Grilli inks a two-year deal with the Braves

Frayed Knot Dec 24 2014 02:12 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Frayed Knot wrote: And speaking of aging relievers, 38 y/o Jason Grilli inks a two-year deal with the Braves And now add 37 y/o AJ Pierzynski on a one-year deal

Edgy MD Dec 24 2014 02:44 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Wow. Weird. But I guess a vet or two is what they see as missing. But that bullpen has seemed nearly impermeable the last three years. Rarely's the time I've thought, "You know, what they're missing is a mullet-headed veteran right-handed journeyman.

Frayed Knot Dec 26 2014 02:05 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Dan Uggla is a minor league Nat

Edgy MD Dec 26 2014 02:21 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I thought that he'd be packing it in. Trying instead to make all the NL East stops, south to north.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 28 2014 09:23 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Looks like the Phils are going to sign Wandy Rodriguez. He dropped off the face of the earth last season but apparently been showcasing his stuff in winterball. I would have liked him as a surprise LH reliever/swingman guy.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 28 2014 09:53 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Looks like the Phils are going to sign Wandy Rodriguez. He dropped off the face of the earth last season but apparently been showcasing his stuff in winterball. I would have liked him as a surprise LH reliever/swingman guy. /Nods vigorously As someone who's always been a sucker for cheap pitching bets in pretend baseball, I can tell you that right up until last year, he's always had the good-to-great-WHIP/nice K-to-BB that kids crave and parents love.

Frayed Knot Dec 28 2014 10:14 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I'm sure the Phils are going to give him at least the opportunity to nab a starters job -- particularly if a Hamels trade goes down -- which is something he wouldn't get in Queens.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 28 2014 11:02 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Well, yeah, there's that. But they're likely not going to give him a shot at postseason play, either. And he IS 35.

Edgy MD Dec 28 2014 01:26 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Players in his position, unable to score on this contract, are mostly thinking about the next contract. What's going to put me in a position to show my stuff and gets me a payday next winter. At least, that's what the agents are said to advise. So yeah, that's the Phils. It's pretty much what got us John Mayberry. He looked at the Mets' outfield versus that of the Cardinals, and figured the Mets were a better bet to get him the reps to pad his resume. They reportedly got him for $550,000 less than the Cards were offering.

Frayed Knot Jan 05 2015 10:42 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Aaron Harang takes his third NL East stop in three years as he inks a one-year deal with Philly. Remember (even if you don't want to) that he started 4 games with the Mets at the tail end of 2013, and then made 33 starts with decent results [12-12, 3.57 ERA] for the Braves last season. Turns 37 in May

Frayed Knot Jan 08 2015 03:36 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Jayson Werth could miss the beginning of the season as there are (as yet unconfirmed) reports that he's about the undergo shoulder surgery which will require a 2-3 month recovery period. Not sure how the surgery and recovery schedule will mesh with his potential prison schedule.

Edgy MD Jan 08 2015 04:26 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Maybe we'll some Opening Day Nate McLouth action.

G-Fafif Jan 14 2015 02:40 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Braves reportedly to rid themselves of Evan Gattis, sending him to the Astros for three prospects. Hard thrower Mike Foltynewicz, third baseman Rio Ruiz and righty Andrew Thurman are the group headed to the Braves once the deal is made official, a person with knowledge of the trade said. Gattis was in Houston to take a physical on Wednesday. If completed, the trade represents the most talented group of prospects Astos general manager Jeff Luhnow has parted with in a trade yet, signifying a commitment — but also a need — to get better at the big leagues soon.

Frayed Knot Jan 14 2015 02:54 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I'm not sure I'd be all that keen on sending three prospects away to get Evan Gattis (with the caveat that I don't know anything about those particular prospects) but one can definitely see Gattis hitting about ninety-eleven HRs/year in that park in Houston.

sharpie Jan 14 2015 03:17 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

So Gattis won't be playing outfield for the Braves and presumably DH's for the 'Stros. Braves now can play that Jordan Shaffer guy alla time along with Markakis and BJ. Not a good outfield.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 14 2015 04:24 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Bravos also signed Wandy Rodriguez to a minor league deal. I referred to him upthread as a sleeper comeback guy but that was when he was rumored to be going to the Phillies. He didn't, because he failed a physical with them. Are the Braves punting or what?

Edgy MD Jan 14 2015 05:35 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

The thingus about the Braves, or what seems to be the thingus, is that (again, it seems, for I have not checked the numbers) they've been filling their outfield for years with big names but have gotten Metlike productivity. It's been something like the difference between them being good and very good. They may be thinking that they might as well tone down the arms race and build an outfield instead of buying one. But yeah, I'm surprised at how much they are in a hurry to unmake Frank Wren's strategy. Instead of zagging off of what he was doing, they're pulling a 180. Very un-Bravelike to blow things up like that.

Frayed Knot Jan 14 2015 06:20 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

sharpie wrote: So Gattis won't be playing outfield for the Braves and presumably DH's for the 'Stros. Braves now can play that Jordan Shaffer guy alla time along with Markakis and BJ. Not a good outfield. Los Bravos actually lost Schafer last August on waivers to Minnesota so it'll have to be someone else replacing J. Upton + Gattis out there. But your overall point still stands, that the all the Braves moves this winter have been to the detriment of their defense. Most notably Markakis for Heyward (Heyward for ANYONE was going to be a downgrade), but also adding Callaspo at 2nd (his defensive numbers stink anyway) and Pierzynski catching. Outside of Simmons and probably Freeman, they don't look to be a very impressive defensive group.

Edgy MD Jan 14 2015 06:31 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Frayed Knot wrote: (Heyward for ANYONE was going to be a downgrade) Not if they traded him for Laggy, heh, heh.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 14 2015 06:52 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

So the Nats went and got Yunel Escobar anywhoo, getting him from Oakland for dikhead reliever Tyler Clippard. I guess there's some speculation that the Nats could still do away with Desmond, would be funny if they somehow came to a deal with the Mets after all.

Frayed Knot Jan 14 2015 07:16 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: So the Nats went and got Yunel Escobar anywhoo, getting him from Oakland for dikhead reliever Tyler Clippard. I guess there's some speculation that the Nats could still do away with Desmond, would be funny if they somehow came to a deal with the Mets after all. That's two big hits to the Nats bullpen this winter. First they let Soriano walk (and despite their fans' complaints about him, he was good for the first 3/4 of the year) and now Clippard (who IS a dick and takes far too long to throw but was more than pretty good). Part of what the Nats are trying to do -- NEED to do really -- is clear out at least some of the many key parts that are coming up on FA-gency in the next two years. FAs at the end of 2015, in addition to Clippard, are Desmond, the pitching Zimmermann, Span, and Fister (fist her I barely know her!). And then after 2016 comes the catcher Ramos plus Strasberg and the rest of the bullpen in Stammen & Storen.

G-Fafif Jan 18 2015 06:29 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Scherzer ever so close to being a real Natzi.

Frayed Knot Jan 18 2015 07:21 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

G-Fafif wrote: Scherzer ever so close to being a real Natzi. I'm sure anyone even slightly familiar with Washington DC area sports radio can already imagine the topics this will trigger if he does sign with the Nats. Topic #1) Who's Max Scherzer? Topic #2) How will this signing affect RGIII? But seriously folks, if he does sign I suspect that won't be the end of Mike Rizzo's wheeling & dealing. Either one of their other starters will need to go -- most likely Zimmermann or Fister, both in the final year of contracts ... or maybe even Strasburg?!? -- or last year's hot 2nd year starter Tanner Roark [career 22-11, 2.54 over 36 starts] will get shoved to the bullpen in order to cover some of their recent losses there [Clippard, Detwiler, Soriano].

G-Fafif Jan 19 2015 01:00 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Max reportedly getting $180 million for seven years in D.C., or $26 million more than the Tigers offered to keep him off the market. That's quite the hefty rotation, pending Nat trades. On the plus side, Matt Williams is still the one making pitching changes.

Edgy MD Jan 19 2015 04:04 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

It's tough to settle on an upside. The difference between the Mets being middling team and a kinda good one last season was their wanting record against the Nats (4-15), their most losses against one team since achieving the same 4-15 against the Marlins in 2004 (the year Armando saved 11 games vs. the Mets alone). In fact, the Mets have been struggling against the Natburgers pretty steadily for quite some time now, capping a disappointing trend of declining success since the Expos came to Washington: 2005: 11-7 2006: 12-6 2007: 11-7 2008: 12-6 2009: 10-8 2010: 9-9 2011: 8-10 2012: 4-14 2013: 7-12 2014: 4-15 Closest things to upside: [list=1][*]Starting pitching already represents a position of strength for the Nats, so the possible marginal improvement of Scherzer (6.0 pitching WAR in 2014) over (say) Zimmerman (4.9) isn't really going to buy them as many wins as it would have if he replaced a real stooge. It's almost like giving Scherzer the contract extension they haven't been able to hammer out with Zimmerman. Not really an upside, but... . [/*:m] [*]Seven years to a pitcher is always a dramatic commitment. You hate to root for injury, but if his seven years is anything like Johan's seven with the Mets, well... he might really hurt us for the next 2.5 years. Not really an upside, but... . [/*:m] [*]Scherzer disappearing from the market advances the narrative that the Yankees can be seen as possibly just as disappointing as the Mets (or more!) in their non-filling of their alleged glaring need. Not really and upside, but... .[/*:m][/list:o]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 19 2015 09:45 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 19 2015 11:59 AM

With the small-but-prominent a-hole quotient; a deadly, homegrown-with-enrichment rotation; their dominance over us; and the playoff flameouts so far... the Nats are beginning to feel a little '90s Bravesian, aren't they?

Edgy MD Jan 19 2015 10:55 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I'm a-thinking of that opening serie between the Mets and Nats, and wondering if the two teams are going to score about five runs total over the three games.

Ceetar Jan 19 2015 11:40 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Edgy MD wrote: I'm a-thinking of that opening serie between the Mets and Nats, and wondering if the two teams are going to score about five runs total over the three games. nah, short ropes early on for starters. we'll mash their bullpen.

Frayed Knot Jan 19 2015 12:54 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

G-Fafif wrote: Max reportedly getting $180 million for seven years in D.C., or $26 million more than the Tigers offered to keep him off the market. Reports now saying that it's 7 years - at $210 mil!! One continues to wonder how Boras gets these owners (and it IS often the owners he gets into these negotiations rather than GMs) to bid against themselves and drive the price seemingly beyond reason, but he does exactly that year after year. Maybe the fact that he's been tight with both the aging owners of Washington and Detroit in recent years he was able to convince each that the other was on the verge of winning the bid and so the idea of throwing in an extra $30 mil or so is worth it for those in a quest to 'Get one before I die'. That's not only 'Verlander money' it's practically Kershaw money only it's going to a guy who's four years older than Kershaw, with fewer CYs, and with a contract that last an extra year (2021 vs 2020)

Edgy MD Jan 19 2015 01:11 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

"Listen, I'm meeting with the Nationals owner... yeah, I got the GM to rope the owner into this meeting. I dunno, apparently he can't tie his shoes without Lerner's permission. But listen, exactly eight minutes after I go in, I need you to call me. I'm gonna pretend you're the Yankees. What's that? Nah, you don't have to say anything. I probably won't even pick up. But my phone will be on the table and I've got it set to flash the Yankees logo and play the Yankees' song when you call. I'll be too polite to pick up. They'll shit their pants right there in the room. Works every time. You make that call at just the right time, it's good for another $20 million."

Ceetar Jan 19 2015 01:14 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

and apparently they're going to pay him that money over 14! years.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 19 2015 01:45 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Crazy! Cool Scherzer facts: -- He's a proud (fellow) University of Missouri guy. Quiz: Which of your favorite ex-Mets also is a Mizzou guy? Each of his eyes is a different color.

Edgy MD Jan 19 2015 01:58 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Wasn't that smartypants physics guy from the Mets' early years from University of Missouri?

Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 19 2015 02:05 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Edgy MD wrote: Wasn't that smartypants physics guy from the Mets' early years from University of Missouri? Do you mean Jay Hook? He went to Northwestern. This is a guy you've no doubt seen in person.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 19 2015 06:38 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Schoeneweis?

metirish Jan 19 2015 06:39 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

WOW, the money, the years? it's crazy , do teams(owners) ever learn?

Benjamin Grimm Jan 19 2015 09:00 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Each of his eyes is a different color. How many does he have?

Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 20 2015 07:21 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Each of his eyes is a different color. How many does he have? At least two.

Frayed Knot Jan 20 2015 07:27 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Don't it make his brown eye blue. [fimg=320:1fwwmiqe]http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/MaxScherzerEyes.jpg[/fimg:1fwwmiqe]

Edgy MD Jan 20 2015 07:31 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Whoah! It's chubby David Bowie.

G-Fafif Jan 22 2015 08:33 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Tempered optimism for the talented Marlins from Jonah Keri. Turning those playoff ambitions into reality won’t be easy, of course. The Nationals made a loaded roster even stronger when they broke the bank for Max Scherzer; the Padres and Cubs should be much improved; the Dodgers, Cardinals, and Pirates could be serious threats once again; and the reigning champs are always a factor. But if the Marlins really have turned a corner and are now prepared to operate like something approaching a normal baseball team, there’s reason to believe in their talent, the potential for more upgrades if they’re in the race come July, and even a sustained run of success behind their possibly-signed-for-life superstar. Not mentioned among those with playoff ambitions, a loaded roster, much improvement or serious threats...well, you know. But we did sign Michael Cuddyer, so watch out everybody.

Frayed Knot Jan 22 2015 08:55 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Jonny Gomes to the Braves for one year plus a vest for '16 This is the non-Brazilian Gomes (Yan is the one from SA) just turned 34, hits RH, has been with like six teams over the last decade including being one of the furry crew in Boston two years back. Will likely platoon in LF plus PH & DH

Edgy MD Jan 23 2015 11:09 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Here's a rosy picture which lets some of the air out of the Scherzer tires (to mix a metaphor). Nationals Pitching Will Get Worse in 2015 Even With Scherzer

Frayed Knot Jan 23 2015 01:46 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Ichiro to Marlins for one year.

Frayed Knot Jan 28 2015 05:15 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Braves reach a four year deal (plus option for 2019) with Cuban OF Dian Toscano. The 25 y/o is considered relatively unknown as he didn't play for the national team recently. Limited stats seem to indicate a high BA but lack of power and throwing arm. And that's what $25.5 million buys you these days.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 30 2015 07:18 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

For $1.5M plus bonuses, Chad Billingsley drags his elbow eastward, to Philadelphia. (Unfortunately for Ruben, liniments and duct tape sold separately.)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 30 2015 07:24 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

'15 Phillies reminding me of that shit Mets team that gambled with Shawn Marcum and Chris Young, whatever year that was.

Edgy MD Feb 09 2015 06:26 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Danny Espinosa has decided to give up on switch hitting before the Nats give up on him.

Edgy MD Feb 18 2015 07:49 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

The Nats "win" offseason polls for “Worst Free Agent Signing” and “Most Outrageous Contract.” Considering that pool is of MLB execs, you have to think it's meaningfully informed (on one hand), but queered by at least some degree of wishful thinking on the other. Who doesn't want to see the rich kid's toys break? Anyways, it's nice to see at least the suggestion that somebody else's contract will eclipse Bobby Bonilla's with regard to the long tail of the payment obligations.

Frayed Knot Feb 19 2015 10:33 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

"I just want to win. That's all any competitor wants. And I know it's not going to happen here." -- Cole Hamels, not exactly mincing words about his desire to be traded.

Edgy MD Feb 19 2015 10:40 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I don't understand how anybody gets away with that crap.

Frayed Knot Feb 19 2015 10:46 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Oh and it gets worse. "When I signed my contract, the Phillies told me they would contend. They told me they would contend every year. But things happen.'' So you took that as essentially a guarantee and therefore the current condition represents some sort of breach?

Edgy MD Feb 19 2015 10:58 AM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Heath Bell, in camp on a minor league dealio with the Nats, has dropped 40 pounds. He may well be in the best shape of his life!

Edgy MD Feb 19 2015 02:01 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

I'm Danny Espinosa. Beards are bullshit.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2015 05:24 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Now there's a baseball goodfellow. I mean, a baseball goodfellow who looks like he's recently been to a kid's party with fun favors, but still.

Frayed Knot Mar 24 2015 04:35 PM Re: Division Opponents in 2014-2015 Offseason

Edgy MD wrote: Heath Bell, in camp on a minor league dealio with the Nats, has dropped 40 pounds. He may well be in the best shape of his life! But none of that prevented him from being cut yesterday ... and then announcing his retirement today. I wonder if he ever stopped to realize that maybe not gaining the 40 pounds in the first place would save him the trouble of then having to lose it seemingly ever other year. No word on whether or not he blamed any of this on Rick Peterson.