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Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Centerfield Nov 20 2014 07:56 AM

I vaguely remember our "plan" joke being associated with a hot dog wrapper on the ground. I am sure someone here will remember the details. In any event, I really like the way Sandy Alderson has played his cards this post-season. I don't like losing the draft pick, but the Cuddyer signing is a very sensible one, and one that ensures we have reached the bare minimum to upgrade the lineup. I like that he is being patient on the shortstop market. I agree that all of the candidates have their flaws (some good defenders, others are good hitters, few are both. Some are old, some are expensive, some are both). And of the guys who are available, I don't think any are worth giving up deGrom or Wheeler. Or Syndegaard. He will be the 2015 ROY. I think he will ultimately unload Colon, but given his salary, we will not get much back. I think we start camp with Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Niese and Gee. Montero goes to the pen, Syndegaard and Matz start in the minors. I think Sandy will monitor the SS market to see if any bargains present themselves but will ultimately break camp with what we have. I think it's 50/50 whether we keep Murph. I guess that depends on the budget given to him. I think we add a lefty in the pen, and add a right-handed version of Bobby Abreu for the bench. I think we keep Plawecki around through spring just in case Travis looks bad or is hurt. Ultimately we will go into the season with Plawecki, Murphy, Niese and Gee all as tradeable chips. If a team gets hit with injuries, they may have much more value then. I don't think Sandy will trade them for less than value just because he has redundancies. I like that we don't have to worry about this kind of dumb move from our GM.

d'Kong76 Nov 20 2014 08:12 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Half eaten hot dog in a wrapper? I forget the slant.

Ceetar Nov 20 2014 08:17 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

you can't handle the plan! Sandy's never shared the plan, because he's full of lies and double-speak. Any 'plan' has mostly been narrative.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 20 2014 08:27 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

People remember the dumbest things. I made the original hot dog reference while poking fun at a former poster who incessantly said the Mets were doomed because Steve Phillips wouldn't reveal "the plan"; and maintained a threat not to spend any $$ on the Mets until he did (which was empty since he was based in LA anyway). I imagined a meeting between the poster and Steve Phillips at Shea. I thought it was a dumb post but people remembered it. I am certain Muffy and Gee are out of there. They need the $$ they are making just to pay for Cuddy, plus they both are sort of superfluous at this point and might return something we could use (bullpen, SS, prospect we lost). Almost certain the talk of retaining Flores at SS is just talk, but worst-case scenario, a plan.

Ceetar Nov 20 2014 08:36 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I am certain Muffy and Gee are out of there. They need the $$ they are making just to pay for Cuddy, plus they both are sort of superfluous at this point and might return something we could use (bullpen, SS, prospect we lost). Almost certain the talk of retaining Flores at SS is just talk, but worst-case scenario, a plan. I'm not certain on that at all. I think if it might help if they're really pushing for someone really expensive, type-A, etc, but I don't think a simple 2-year deal for Cuddyer pushes the limits much. I mean, you can't believe anything the guy says but Sandy has suggested in the past that any perceived payroll caps are soft ones based on the deal. Which I mean, duh. Money has a weight in the decision making process but hardly the only one. Plan or not with Flores you gotta at least pretend you're serious about it for leverage purposes. Just to pick a guy, you can't tell Stephen Drew you don't think he'll outperform Flores if you've publicly stated you're not going to play Flores.

d'Kong76 Nov 20 2014 08:42 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: People remember the dumbest things. I made the original hot dog reference while poking fun at a former poster who incessantly said the Mets were doomed because Steve Phillips wouldn't reveal "the plan"; and maintained a threat not to spend any $$ on the Mets until he did (which was empty since he was based in LA anyway). I imagined a meeting between the poster and Steve Phillips at Shea. I thought it was a dumb post but people remembered it. It was pretty funny. Still is. Show us the plan! and *insert anything here* NOW!!! is classic Mets-interweb jargon.

Frayed Knot Nov 20 2014 09:17 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Centerfield wrote: I think he will ultimately unload Colon, but given his salary, we will not get much back. On a one-year deal coming off an, at worst, league average season where he made every start, Colon at $11mil isn't all that overpaid. Yeah he's fat and will soon be 42, but it's a short-term commitment and pitchers who averaged 28 starts and 177 IP per/season with a 3.54 ERA; 1.22 WHiP, 4/1 K/BB ratios over the last four years aren't dime-a-dozen pick-ups on the open market. Even getting 'stuck' with that type of production isn't the worst idea in the world.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 20 2014 09:24 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Yeah I never thought I'd say this but I am in favor of keeping Colon around. His inevitable knee injury, heart attack or ineffectiveness is what ushers in the Syndergard/Matz era and if we're lucky enough to avoid that, then we're very lucky.

Edgy MD Nov 20 2014 09:46 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

"Steve Phillips shows Ambler the Plan" [list]Ambler: Hey Steve. Can I have your autograph? SP: Sure. AM: Thanks. While you're at it, can you show me the plan? SP: The plan? AM: Y'know, the plan. How you're going to execute the massive rebuilding this team needs. SP: I'm not sure we need a massive rebuilding, but... . AM: Yes you do. SP: Do not. AM: Do too. SP: Oh yeah? AM: Yeah. Like Piazza. When are you going to trade him? SP: I don't believe we will be trading Mike Piazza. AM: See? SP: See what? AM: It's not your fault, really. SP: What isn't my fault? AM: You're constrained by the cheapass owners. SP: We all work under a budget. Don't you? AM: Well... . SP: We're doing all we can to put a good team on the field. We have to keep an eye on now and on the future. AM: Why don't you dump Zeile? SP: Dump? We're not in a position to dump players, especially those we've made a large investment in and we're counting on to come around. Right now the market isn't good for Todd, and we'd need something back. This isn't a simple matter of addition by subtraction. AM: You traded all the wrong guys. SP: Heh-heh. Tell that to Ed Wade. AM: You coulda got more for Reed. SP: Like who? AM: I gotta go find my seat SP: Wait. Who? AM: I dunno. You should have thrown in LOBIN and Toad. SP: Sure. This isn't rotisserie, you know. AM: What about A-rod? Wasn't that 24-and-1 nonsense just a ruse? SP: There was some truth to it. The bottom line was we couldn't afford to sign a contract that big. AM: Ordòñez sucks. Play Desi every day. SP: That's a matter for Bobby to decide. AM: You should force Piazza to play first. SP: I thought you just said we should trade him? AM: I'm not spending another dime on Mets baseball until you show me the plan. SP: Then what are you doing here? AM: Uhhh... Free tickets. I won them in a radio contest. SP: And that hotdog? AM: Found it over by the trash can. SP: I see. AM: Steve? SP: Yeah? AM: Will you show me the plan? SP: No. AM: Please? SP: Sorry. You'll have to wait. If I went around showing my plan to everyone, I could lose whatever leverage I have. AM: Then I'm not spending another dime on Mets baseball. SP: We're really going to miss you.[/list:u]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 20 2014 10:27 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

See, I'd forgotten why I imagined that meeting, works better as a reply to the first message. Actually Paulie makes me laugh in that thread: "You're a regular Mike Wallace" I do miss the tackle football we used to play over there, but too easy to get out of hand and a lot of shitty players.

Ashie62 Nov 20 2014 05:53 PM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Regardless of plan, its' the year to win Sandy.

TheOldMole Nov 22 2014 03:26 PM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Why does everyone always want to trade Murphy?

Frayed Knot Nov 22 2014 03:36 PM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

I don't know if it's a case of [u:1axecs3x]want to[/u:1axecs3x] as much as he's a logical choice to shop so as to shore up things elsewhere, because ... - he's just a year away from FA-gency at which point they'll have the decision to long-term him or let him walk (and at age 31 I don't think he's in their L-T plans) - he hits for average but without a lot of walks and with little HR power - he plays a middle of the field position but doesn't do so very well - his speed isn't bad but he gets dopey running the bases at times - he, more than any other player on the roster, has logical replacements already under contract and either ready to go or at least close to being so: Herrera, Flores, LJ Mazzilli, Eric Young, Matt Reynolds

Lefty Specialist Nov 22 2014 04:31 PM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Murphy's a guy you trade even if you don't have cheap-ass owners. Replacements are available in-house, he's approaching free-agency, and he has some value to potentially bring back a piece you need. I don't hate him, I respect that he's a hard worker and a grinder that made himself into a second baseman by sheer force of will, but he's not getting a long-term deal and they need to move on.

d'Kong76 Nov 23 2014 08:14 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Funny, I don't think of him as 30ish... where the hell do the years go?

Ashie62 Nov 23 2014 04:59 PM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Ask Steely Dan?

Ceetar Nov 24 2014 07:20 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Lefty Specialist wrote: Murphy's a guy you trade even if you don't have cheap-ass owners. Replacements are available in-house, he's approaching free-agency, and he has some value to potentially bring back a piece you need. I don't hate him, I respect that he's a hard worker and a grinder that made himself into a second baseman by sheer force of will, but he's not getting a long-term deal and they need to move on. Well, replacements available in house is up for much debate. And at best are much more volatile. No matter what you think of Herrera and Flores, et al, they're prospects that could flame out. You're pretty confident in what you're going to get for Murphy, and that can't really be understated. I don't think the Mets are necessarily looking for a "if we hit on your guesses, we're gonna be good" type of team. At least, I think they're trying to minimize that volatility.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 24 2014 07:25 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

TRAID MUFFY NOW!!!!!

Lefty Specialist Nov 24 2014 08:20 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Well, Flores and Herrera are pretty decent options to have. Murphy's good but not great offensively, and defensively he's scary. Flores has nothing left to prove at AAA. I understand the Murphy love, but I just can't see how signing him to a long-term deal is in the Mets' best interests. Because if you DON'T trade him this winter, and DON'T sign him to a longer-term deal, it's just a waste.

Ceetar Nov 24 2014 08:31 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Lefty Specialist wrote: Well, Flores and Herrera are pretty decent options to have. Murphy's good but not great offensively, and defensively he's scary. Flores has nothing left to prove at AAA. I understand the Murphy love, but I just can't see how signing him to a long-term deal is in the Mets' best interests. Because if you DON'T trade him this winter, and DON'T sign him to a longer-term deal, it's just a waste. What he gives you this year is not a waste, nor is he 'scary' defensively. He's not great, but he's certainly held his own. Plus even if you don't trade him or sign him to a long deal, you still very possibly get a comp pick for qualifying offer. Which it's unlikely he'd accept because chances are he wants more than a 1 year deal.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 24 2014 09:18 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Say goodbye to Muffy, Ceets. Anyone think he could accept a role as this year's Bobby Abreu?

Ceetar Nov 24 2014 09:32 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Say goodbye to Muffy, Ceets. Anyone think he could accept a role as this year's Bobby Abreu? well no, cause he'll probably be good. I'm not particularly attached to Murphy beyond the 8 years a Met thing or whatever it's been. I'm just not sold on the idea that the Mets are desperately shopping him. Include him in a big deal that makes the team better, sure. Just dump him to free up space? perhaps not so much.

Edgy MD Nov 24 2014 09:59 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

I imagine you'd be hard-pressed to find an advocate of "just dump him to free up space."

Ceetar Nov 24 2014 10:07 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Edgy MD wrote: I imagine you'd be hard-pressed to find an advocate of "just dump him to free up space." no, not really. Half the people proposing trading him are only doing so because they want to clear perceived payroll space.

Edgy MD Nov 24 2014 10:32 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

The money a player is due counts, especially if it can yield more return elsewhere, but I think we'd all demand an honorable package in exchange for the Murph. But if you see otherwise from half the people, then please name names.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 24 2014 10:41 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

I'm willing to explore a plan whereby we hang onto Muffy, but transition him to a pinch-hitter, spot starter, fill-in at 1B/2B/3B etc. Usually such a transition accompanies a change in organizations, and doesn't often happen to a player following an All-Star season, but, if the Mets get a real SS, it's a p[lan worth exploring if Muffy is willing.

Edgy MD Nov 24 2014 10:46 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

If Muffy opens the season as the 10th man, he'd likely be a regular at one position or another by May. But yeah, I like him as super-utility guy, too.

Vic Sage Nov 24 2014 11:10 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

i don't see him accepting a super-Joe role the year after being among the league-leaders in hits and making the A-S team, and a year before free agency. But i don't agree that he "held his own" at 2b. I think he was probably among the worst defensive full-time 2Bmen in all of baseball last year, and i don't think he makes up enough for that with his bat. I'm not interested in giving him away just to clear payroll, because i think a Mets owner should be able to afford an arbitration salary for Mr. Muffy. But I'm willing to trade him for a SS, even a SS prospect, probably as part of a package, because i don't think our ownership is willing to pay him now or long-term, and i don't think his overall production is particularly irreplaceable, since some of our best organizational prospects play that position better than he does, and have the potential to hit more, too.

Ceetar Nov 24 2014 11:25 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

I mean, Fangraphs/DRS/etc has him near the bottom of 2Bmen but not horribly so. Near middle of the pack when you look at WAR (for qualifiers anyway). 7th in wRC+ looking at just offense. He seems to start pushing back towards average defensively when you take out the qualifying AB filter. Which basically implies he's not very good defensively but just good enough to be worth playing there. 7.1 fWAR over the last three years. That's "major league regular" territory. (rWAR rates him a little harsher) This team could use the certainty he brings, versus moving him to fill another hole and filling 2B either internally or with another acquisition. In my eye, at least if we're talking working near that 10million figure, that's adding two question marks. I'm not saying there's no way you do it, but it shouldn't be treated as the goal, it should be a backup plan if you can't acquire the upgrades in other ways.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 24 2014 11:30 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

I like Murph as super-utility guy. I also like Flores as super-utility guy. Cuddyer fits, too. Campbell looks like a decent fit, as well. If we can move any of that depth-and-versatility for top-end-- even if it's a technical overpay-- then, well, that's probably a better fit, innit?

Centerfield Dec 01 2014 07:53 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Hi. We are the New York Mets. We are doing absolutely nothing. Nothing is imminent. Nothing is being discussed. In fact, nothing is even being rumored. There is nothing for you to read about or discuss this morning. We realize you are back from a long weekend and feeling unmotivated, but we feel like you should just concentrate on your work instead of surfing the net. That is all.

Mets Guy in Michigan Dec 01 2014 09:53 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Nothing ... except for the Jim Bowden-suggested three-way deal where we get Elvis Andrus and $10 million, the Rangers get Justin Upton and the Braves get Noah. That's a horrible deal for us. This is why Bowden is a former GM. Why would we trade a stud pitching prospect for a guy signed to a mega-long-term deal who is coming off his worst season or may or may not be an offensive upgrade over Flores? Gee or Colon or Niese, but not Noah.

Edgy MD Dec 01 2014 11:53 AM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

He's a former GM for reasons far more troubling than proposing reckless trades

Lefty Specialist Dec 01 2014 01:16 PM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Nothing ... except for the Jim Bowden-suggested three-way deal where we get Elvis Andrus and $10 million, the Rangers get Justin Upton and the Braves get Noah. That's a horrible deal for us. This is why Bowden is a former GM. Why would we trade a stud pitching prospect for a guy signed to a mega-long-term deal who is coming off his worst season or may or may not be an offensive upgrade over Flores? Gee or Colon or Niese, but not Noah. You've got to be joking. We get a horrible contract and the Braves get Thor? No f'n way. Sandy wouldn't be that stupid. Whatever Bowden's smoking, I'd like some.

Ashie62 Dec 01 2014 05:53 PM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Centerfield wrote: Hi. We are the New York Mets. We are doing absolutely nothing. Nothing is imminent. Nothing is being discussed. In fact, nothing is even being rumored. There is nothing for you to read about or discuss this morning. We realize you are back from a long weekend and feeling unmotivated, but we feel like you should just concentrate on your work instead of surfing the net. That is all. this..

Edgy MD Dec 01 2014 06:58 PM Re: Show Us the Plan Sandy!

Sheesh, you entertainment junkies. The Eric Young/Ruben Tejada Saga isn't thrilling enough for you?