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REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanigans)

Centerfield Jan 24 2015 07:25 PM

My idea of offseason shenanigans is a team that claims to be on the verge of contention "improving" their team over the winter by signing a 36 year old OF'er coming off a significant injury and doing dick otherwise. And still not spending any money.

d'Kong76 Jan 24 2015 07:56 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

That, too.

Ceetar Jan 24 2015 08:32 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

Centerfield wrote: My idea of offseason shenanigans is a team that claims to be on the verge of contention "improving" their team over the winter by signing a 36 year old OF'er coming off a significant injury and doing dick otherwise. And still not spending any money. 'significant'? He broke his shoulder diving for a ball, and had a little hamstring thing. Those aren't really significant.

Edgy MD Jan 24 2015 10:08 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

I don't really root for the improvement that comes through offseason dealings. To my thinking, that's just what a team does in accepting that they've failed at something in building the team. When a team has the best minor league record of all 30 teams, I'm not in a rush to force them to admit failure. A lot of the best Mets teams came after doing little transacting in the offseason. A lot of the most improved ones and the best overall ones. And a lot of the crappiest teams have come after an offseason of copious transacting. Transacting ain't winning. It's... shuffling. And not transacting certainly isn't doing nothing.

Zvon Jan 24 2015 10:30 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I feel bad for Wilmer Flores. I think the Mets fans are going to give him a lot of undeserved shit for not being Tulowitski or Desmond or Honus Wagner. Real Mets fans cheer for the underdog!

d'Kong76 Jan 25 2015 06:38 AM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

Edgy MD wrote: I don't really root for the improvement that comes through offseason dealings. To my thinking, that's just what a team does in accepting that they've failed at something in building the team. When a team has the best minor league record of all 30 teams, I'm not in a rush to force them to admit that. A lot of the best Mets teams came after doing little transacting in the offseason. A lot of the most improved ones and the best overall ones. And a lot of the crappiest teams have come after an offseason of copious transacting. Transacting ain't winning. It's... shuffling. And not transacting certainly isn't doing nothing. What's your stance on copious scoreboard upgrades? When the Nationals win the division, we'll talk about transacting ain't winning? Cubs? The fans that habitually cut the Wilpons some slack have gotten to me so much this off-season I can't even begin to explain how aggravating it is. Not transacting certainly is doing nothing. Transact not, improve not.

Ceetar Jan 25 2015 07:17 AM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

d'Kong76 wrote: Edgy MD wrote: I don't really root for the improvement that comes through offseason dealings. To my thinking, that's just what a team does in accepting that they've failed at something in building the team. When a team has the best minor league record of all 30 teams, I'm not in a rush to force them to admit that. A lot of the best Mets teams came after doing little transacting in the offseason. A lot of the most improved ones and the best overall ones. And a lot of the crappiest teams have come after an offseason of copious transacting. Transacting ain't winning. It's... shuffling. And not transacting certainly isn't doing nothing. What's your stance on copious scoreboard upgrades? [crossout]When[/crossout] If the Nationals win the division, we'll talk about transacting ain't winning? Cubs? The fans that habitually cut the Wilpons some slack have gotten to me so much this off-season I can't even begin to explain how aggravating it is. Not transacting certainly is doing nothing. Transact not, improve not. fixed that.

d'Kong76 Jan 25 2015 07:27 AM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

Thanks!

Benjamin Grimm Jan 25 2015 08:54 AM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

I don't know... the Mets improved quite a bit from 1983 to 1984 and this is what they did between those two seasons. None of these moves got anybody excited. December 8, 1983 New York Mets traded Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones. January 17, 1984 New York Mets signed free agent Rafael Santana. January 27, 1984 New York Mets signed free agent Dick Tidrow of the Chicago White Sox. January 30, 1984 New York Mets released Dave Kingman. February 22, 1984 New York Mets released Mark Bradley. March 17, 1984 New York Mets signed free agent Jerry Martin of the Kansas City Royals. April 1, 1984 New York Mets traded Tucker Ashford to the Kansas City Royals for Tom Edens.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 25 2015 11:42 AM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know... the Mets improved quite a bit from 1983 to 1984 and this is what they did between those two seasons. None of these moves got anybody excited. The 1984 Mets also got a whole, instead of half a season from that year's runner-up MVP, Keith Hernandez. '84 was Keith's best season as a Met. But beyond '84, no one should overlook the significant value Davey Johnson's Mets gained by acquiring such outside talent as Hernandez, Carter, Fernandez, Knight and Ojeda --- and then later, McReynolds and Viola -- just to name the biggest names in that category.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 25 2015 12:06 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know... the Mets improved quite a bit from 1983 to 1984 and this is what they did between those two seasons. None of these moves got anybody excited. The 1984 Mets also got a whole, instead of half a season from that year's runner-up MVP, Keith Hernandez. '84 was Keith's best season as a Met. But beyond '84, no one should overlook the significant value Davey Johnson's Mets gained by acquiring such outside talent as Hernandez, Carter, Fernandez, Knight and Ojeda --- and then later, McReynolds and Viola -- just to name the biggest names in that category. '84 was also trade acquisition Ron Darling's first full Met season (he pitched just 35.1 innings the previous season.) And add Hojo to the list above.

Edgy MD Jan 25 2015 12:44 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

d'Kong76 wrote: What's your stance on copious scoreboard upgrades? I'm mostly indifferent. But I guess upgrading and maintaining the park is part of their job, and it's certainly a part that fans have demanded they do more and better. If park improvements is what Jeff is focusing on, I'm OK with that. d'Kong76 wrote: When the Nationals win the division, we'll talk about transacting ain't winning? Cubs? Fair enough. See you at the finishing pole. d'Kong76 wrote: The fans that habitually cut the Wilpons some slack have gotten to me so much this off-season I can't even begin to explain how aggravating it is. I'm sorry to have been aggravating, certainly, but my survey suggests I'm in a pale minority, if that's any comfort. d'Kong76 wrote: Not transacting certainly is doing nothing. Transact not, improve not. I guess we'll see. My perspective (and it's nothing new) is that roughly 50% of transactions go south. More than that, from the Mets' point of view.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 27 2015 12:24 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

I don't know... the Mets improved quite a bit from 1983 to 1984 and this is what they did between those two seasons. None of these moves got anybody excited. The 1984 Mets also got a whole, instead of half a season from that year's runner-up MVP, Keith Hernandez. '84 was Keith's best season as a Met. But beyond '84, no one should overlook the significant value Davey Johnson's Mets gained by acquiring such outside talent as Hernandez, Carter, Fernandez, Knight and Ojeda --- and then later, McReynolds and Viola -- just to name the biggest names in that category. '84 was also trade acquisition Ron Darling's first full Met season (he pitched just 35.1 innings the previous season.) And add Hojo to the list above. I forgot this guy, too:

Edgy MD Jan 27 2015 12:37 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

I'm not sure what the discussion is centered around here.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 27 2015 12:47 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Yeah, really. David Cone? Kevin McReynolds? My point was that the Mets improved a lot from 1983 to 1984 without making a significant offseason deal, and that their improvement came almost entirely from young players maturing. The fact that they got David Cone three years later, or Mike Piazza fourteen years later, has nothing at all to do with that.

Edgy MD Jan 27 2015 01:35 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know... the Mets improved quite a bit from 1983 to 1984 and this is what they did between those two seasons. None of these moves got anybody excited. December 8, 1983 New York Mets traded Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones. January 17, 1984 New York Mets signed free agent Rafael Santana. January 27, 1984 New York Mets signed free agent Dick Tidrow of the Chicago White Sox. January 30, 1984 New York Mets released Dave Kingman. February 22, 1984 New York Mets released Mark Bradley. March 17, 1984 New York Mets signed free agent Jerry Martin of the Kansas City Royals. April 1, 1984 New York Mets traded Tucker Ashford to the Kansas City Royals for Tom Edens. Missing here, somehow: [list]January 20, 1984: Tom Seaver chosen by the Chicago White Sox from the New York Mets as a free agent compensation pick.[/list:u]

Benjamin Grimm Jan 27 2015 01:48 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

That never happened!

Edgy MD Jan 27 2015 02:01 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

So the Cashen APOLOGISTS would have you believe! Another minor oversight I noted in your excellent transaction record: [list:1yx85ew0]December 4, 1968 Jack DiLauro traded by the New York Mets to the Detroit Tigers in exchange for Hector Valle.[/list:u:1yx85ew0] Unless I'm missing some'n', this should be going the other way.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 27 2015 02:19 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Yeah, really. David Cone? Kevin McReynolds? My point was that the Mets improved a lot from 1983 to 1984 without making a significant offseason deal, and that their improvement came almost entirely from young players maturing. The fact that they got David Cone three years later, or Mike Piazza fourteen years later, has nothing at all to do with that. I knew what your point was. With my second point, I was really addressing some other attitudes about trades that pop up here from time to time, to wit: that a team (okay, the Mets) ought to hold onto all of its players like they're the cherished teddy bear of your three year old toddler. I should've made that clearer. That's all, admittedly, superfluous to your point. But my first point holds up. The 1984 Mets improved, in large part, because of the contributions of players they acquired in trades -- just not trades that were made in the most recent off-season. '84 was Hernandez's first full Met season: he was easily their best player that year. And Darling and Terrell were two of the Mets three best starters. Orosco was also acquired in a trade. Anyways, me, I'm not one of those fans whining about the Mets supposed lack of activity this off-season as the reason for whatever it is that ails them. The Mets problems are much larger than that, more complicated, and deeper-rooted. And noted here on this forum and everywhere else ad nauseum.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 27 2015 02:27 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Yeah, really. David Cone? Kevin McReynolds? My point was that the Mets improved a lot from 1983 to 1984 without making a significant offseason deal, and that their improvement came almost entirely from young players maturing. The fact that they got David Cone three years later, or Mike Piazza fourteen years later, has nothing at all to do with that. I knew what your point was. With my second point, I was really addressing some other attitudes about trades that pop up here from time to time, to wit: that a team (okay, the Mets) ought to hold onto all of its players like they're the cherished teddy bear of your three year old toddler. I should've made that clearer. That's all, admittedly, superfluous to your point. But my first point holds up. The 1984 Mets improved, in large part, because of the contributions of players they acquired in trades -- just not trades that were made in the most recent off-season. '84 was Hernandez's first full Met season: he was easily their best player that year. And Darling and Terrell were two of the Mets three best starters. Orosco was also acquired in a trade. Anyways, me, I'm not one of those fans whining about the Mets supposed lack of activity this off-season as the reason for whatever it is that ails them. The Mets problems are much larger than that, more complicated, and deeper-rooted. And noted here on this forum and everywhere else ad nauseum. I suppose that the 2015 Mets could take some big steps forward with improved production from some of their outside acquisitions obtained prior to this off-season --- like d'Arnaud, Wheeler and Syndergaard. That could happen. That could draw parallels to '84. (Although the Mets did get Cuddyer and Mayberry in the past few months).

Benjamin Grimm Jan 27 2015 02:31 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

I'm not expecting that 2015 will be like 1984, but I don't think it's an unreasonable hope. That would still leave them quite a bit short of 1986, but after the last few years I'd be delighted with a 1984.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 27 2015 02:38 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'm not expecting that 2015 will be like 1984, but I don't think it's an unreasonable hope. That would still leave them quite a bit short of 1986, but after the last few years I'd be delighted with a 1984. I could've written your last post myself, word for word. I'm not expecting significant improvement this year, but it's not implausible. And if you wanna let your imagination run amok, the Mets were in better shape at the end of last season than they were at the end of the 1968 season.

Frayed Knot Jan 27 2015 05:10 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

The thing about years like 1984 is that the improvements look obvious only in retrospect. With similar hindsight, we could be saying years from now that a lack of outside acquisitions was OK way back in the winter of 2014-15 because we knew heading into '15 that we were going to have the first full years of Harvey, deGrom, d'Arnaud, & Lagares; that Wright was returning from injury and sure to improve, that Grandson was due for a bounce back, that Duda had shown the previous year that he was ready for prime-time and now had the job from day one, etc. Far-fetched? Maybe. But no more so than knowing the kind of year Keith was going to give you or that Dwight Gooden was about to be dropped in your lap. I remember a writer (wish I remembered which one) laughing at the idea of Wally Backman making a contribution at 2B but of course, with hindsight, that turned out to be exactly the move we needed.

seawolf17 Jan 27 2015 05:14 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

I'm not displeased with this offseason. I don't want to make moves just to make moves; it's not about cutting the Wilpons slack -- I can't stand the Wilpons -- but all the big names available were starting pitchers, and we don't *need* any of that.

Edgy MD Jan 27 2015 05:59 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Backman replacing Giles was THE lineup change in 1983-1984 offseason.

Frayed Knot Jan 27 2015 06:50 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Backman replacing Giles was THE lineup change in 1983-1984 offseason. Keys to a big improvement: Have 2/5 of your starting rotation finish 1st & 5th in RoY voting - and then watch them improve the year after that. seawolf17 wrote: I'm not displeased with this offseason. I don't want to make moves just to make moves; it's not about cutting the Wilpons slack -- I can't stand the Wilpons -- but all the big names available were starting pitchers, and we don't *need* any of that. Look, I'd be all for a shortstop upgrade (and have been both hoping and predicting it for two off-seasons now). But, like you say, don't make moves just to make them and one of the best lessons from 'Moneybag' IMO is that the player you fail to sign/acquire won't hurt you as much as the one you get at the wrong price. Remember two winters ago the "must have" FA in many NYM circles was Michael Bourn. Imagine today had we signed Bourn for four years, cut Lagares loose because of it (he would have been blocked and no one seemed to know what we had in him at that time), and paid not just the FA cost but also the draft pick that became Conforto. As for SS, we had a similar winter-long SS thread last winter and then looked at it later in the year only to find that none of the rumored or hoped-for guys [Gregorius, Miller or Franklin from Seattle for ex.] would have helped all that much if at all. Gregarious was finally moved this year and, while he's got youth and potential, he's also a 24 y/o already in his 3rd org with an OPS vs LHP that would make for a halfway decent two-game bowling score but that's about it. We all know the problems/questions with Tulo, and while I would have loved Desmond, he was the one deal where we pretty know for a fact what the price would have been to get him, and no one here (me included) would have been comfortable paying it.

Mets Guy in Michigan Jan 27 2015 07:26 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

There was some pining for Stephen Drew, too. Glad we didn't lose a pick for that guy.

Edgy MD Jan 27 2015 07:32 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Backman replacing Giles was THE lineup change in 1983-1984 offseason. Keys to a big improvement: Have 2/5 of your starting rotation finish 1st & 5th in RoY voting - and then watch them improve the year after that. Sure, but they also improved their scoring from 3.55 to 4.02 runs per game.

Fman99 Jan 27 2015 08:01 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: There was some pining for Stephen Drew, too. Glad we didn't lose a pick for that guy. Michael Bourn was another one. He hasn't done shit since signing his big fat contract.

Nymr83 Jan 27 2015 08:04 PM Re: Offseason Shenanigans 2014-15

Edgy MD wrote: I don't really root for the improvement that comes through offseason dealings. To my thinking, that's just what a team does in accepting that they've failed at something in building the team. When a team has the best minor league record of all 30 teams, I'm not in a rush to force them to admit failure. A lot of the best Mets teams came after doing little transacting in the offseason. A lot of the most improved ones and the best overall ones. And a lot of the crappiest teams have come after an offseason of copious transacting. Transacting ain't winning. It's... shuffling. And not transacting certainly isn't doing nothing. I agree with your general premise that improving from within usually is a better plan than just throwing money around, but do you have any evidence to support the notion that minor league record matters for the major league club's future win totals? i'd be interested in that!

Edgy MD Jan 27 2015 08:25 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Hard data I have not. What I have is a reasonable assumption, if not a proven fact, that systems with the best minor league performances will tend to produce better players than systems with the worst minor league performances. It's certainly easy enough for teams to queer the data, outfitting each team with a handful of ringers — going-nowhere non-prospect vets several years older than the median age for the league. But I don't think that's a characteristic of Alderson/DePodesta's system.

Ceetar Jan 27 2015 10:30 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

seawolf17 wrote: I'm not displeased with this offseason. I don't want to make moves just to make moves; it's not about cutting the Wilpons slack -- I can't stand the Wilpons -- but all the big names available were starting pitchers, and we don't *need* any of that. Hanley?

seawolf17 Jan 28 2015 07:33 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Ceetar wrote: seawolf17 wrote: I'm not displeased with this offseason. I don't want to make moves just to make moves; it's not about cutting the Wilpons slack -- I can't stand the Wilpons -- but all the big names available were starting pitchers, and we don't *need* any of that. Hanley? I've never been a big Hanley fan, and I think the Sox overpaid him. But yes, he'll be better than anything we have right now at SS in 2015.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2015 07:47 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

I would put it that way, though. He's not "Hanley," so much as "Hanley?," in that he comes with that question mark attached. Flores may not be a shortstop, but none of the other 29 teams seem to have thought Ramirez was one either. So I guess the main Hanley question is whether he gives you more bang for your buck in the outfield than Cuddyer. He's an appealing asset, but maybe not as obvious a fit as all that. And he cost the Sox four years and $87,800,000 with a vesting option for a fifth year at $22,000,000, while Cuddyer was a total of two years and $21,000,000. He's certainly meaningfully younger and therefore a better hope over the long haul, but, well... remember when one of the reasons folks decried Mets management was the lack of foresight Omar had in tacking all those damn extra years and vesting options at the end of contracts, leaving the team with one more year and one more year carrying an albatross?

Ceetar Jan 28 2015 07:58 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Edgy MD wrote: I would put it that way, though. He's not "Hanley," so much as "Hanley?," in that he comes with that question mark attached. Flores may not be a shortstop, but none of the other 29 teams seem to have thought Ramirez was one either. So I guess the main Hanley question is whether he gives you more bang for your buck in the outfield than Cuddyer. He's an appealing asset, but maybe not as obvious a fit as all that. And he cost the Sox four years and $87,800,000 with a vesting option for a fifth year at $22,000,000, while Cuddyer was a total of two years and $21,000,000. He's certainly meaningfully younger and therefore a better hope over the long haul, but, well... remember when one of the reasons folks decried Mets management was the lack of foresight Omar had in tacking all those damn extra years and vesting options at the end of contracts, leaving the team with one more year and one more year carrying an albatross? well, Hanley? then. I was on board, but I don't think the Mets really considered him a SS (But if they consider Flores one..I dunno) I just feel like he's the only legitimate and proven hitter that's played SS that the Mets could've reasonably (i.e. not trade two trucks worth of prospects for Tulo) acquired. I'm not screaming at them for not doing it, I just think he's the best/most interesting "Sandy should've 'gone for it'" discussion. We might have pondered about that contract but I don't think many would say that gamble was a horrible one.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2015 08:06 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

I agree that Hanley may have been the best opportunity on the free agent market. I'm only caveating that I understand not seeing it that way. He sure beats spilling open the purses for Michael Bourn.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 28 2015 08:09 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 28 2015 08:13 AM

SI's Mets Winter Report Card (Hanley mentioned): Winter Report Card: New York Mets by Jay Jaffe Posted: Tue Jan. 27, 2015 With little less than four weeks before pitchers and catchers report, we're checking in on how each team has fared in conducting its offseason business while acknowledging that there's still time for its prognosis to change. Teams will be presented in reverse order of finish from 2014. You can find all previously published Winter Report Cards here. 2014 results: 79-83 (.488), tied for 2nd place in NL East (Hot Stove Preview) Key departures: OF Bobby Abreu, OF Andrew Brown, C Juan Centeno, RHP Gonzalez Germen, RHP Daisuke Matsuzaka, OF Eric Young Jr. Key arrivals: OF Michael Cuddyer, LHP Sean Gilmartin, OF/1B John Mayberry Jr. While the Mets finished below .500 for the sixth straight season in 2014, they did show signs of progress: their 79 wins were their most since 2010, and thanks to the Braves' sudden collapse and the Phillies' reluctance to rebuild, New York actually finished tied with the Marlins for second place in the NL East —17 games back, sure, but closer to the top than in any season since 2008. With Matt Harvey set to return from October 2013 Tommy John surgery that kept him out all of last year, thereby fortifying a maturing rotation, the Mets entered the offseason only a few moves away from returning to contention. Instead, what their fans have had to endure is another winter of head-scratching moves while the organization gives every sign that it is still mired in its post-Madoff financial morass. General manager Sandy Alderson said in December that while payroll would increase from about $85 million (25th in the majors) to around $100 million — "Might be a little lower, might be at that level I don’t expect it to go up too much, if at all,” he told the New York Times — even that now appears optimistic. New York has $82.9 million committed to just 10 players and another $6-8 million earmarked for the arbitration eligible Lucas Duda and Jenrry Mejia, but expectations are that either Dillon Gee or Jon Niese will be traded, leaving payroll in the $90-95 million range, a paltry figure for a team in the country's largest market and one that looks significantly short of improving a roster to the point where it could contend for a postseason berth. That didn't seem like it would be the case back on Nov. 10, when the Mets made the offseason's first major free agent signing by inking Michael Cuddyer to a two-year, $21 million contract. Alas, that appearance of a more aggressive tack, one in which the team was securing a complementary piece to upgrade an offense that managed to rank eighth in the league in scoring while receiving an abysmal .219/.306/.309 showing from its leftfielders, still had its problems. While Cuddyer is just a year removed from winning the NL batting title and hit a sizzling .332/.376/.579 for a 149 OPS+ with the Rockies[,] in 2014, that showing came in all of 205 plate appearances, as he served stints on the disabled list for strains in both hamstrings plus a fracture of the glenoid socket in his non-throwing shoulder. He turns 36 on March 27, has averaged just 93 games per year over the last three and cost New York what would have been the 15th pick of this year's amateur draft. For a club that's rebuilding (regardless of their stated intentions and self-perception), there was no reason for the Mets to give up that pick unless doing so brought a game-changing piece to the Big Apple, and Cuddyer isn't that. Further evidence of this team's lack of will to change its circumstances is its inability (or refusal) to upgrade at shortstop. Alderson flirted with the possibility of trading for Colorado's Troy Tulowitzki (who has five years and $118 million remaining on his contract) or Washington's Ian Desmond (owed $11 million in his final year before free agency), but balked at an asking price that included pitching prospect Noah Syndergaard. A 22-year-old righty, Snydergaard came into last year ranked 16th on Baseball America's Top 100 Prospects list but scuffled his way to a 4.60 ERA, albeit with 9.8 strikeouts per nine, at Triple A Las Vegas. To be sure, both Tulowitzki and Desmond have drawbacks. The former has topped 140 games just three times in his eight full seasons, and the latter has made demands about a $100 million contract. Still, given the in-house alternatives of 23-year-old former prospect Wilmer Flores (.251/.286/.378 in 274 PA) and 25-year-old Ruben Tejada (.237/.342/.310), plus a free agent market that featured Asdrubal Cabrera, Stephen Drew and Hanley Ramirez and a trade market that saw inexpensive pieces such as Yunel Escobar, Didi Gregorius, Jimmy Rollins and Eugenio Suarez all moved, it's not as though potential upgrades weren't available. Yes, many of those players also have their flaws — if they didn't, they wouldn't be available — but none would have required trading Syndergaard. Gregorious and Suarez, for instance, both have years of club control ahead of them yet were moved this offseason to the Yankees and Tigers, respectively, for non-star pitchers Shane Green and Alfredo Simon. Instead the Mets have a pair cheap players whom they've jerked around the organziation for years. Few outside of New York believe that Flores — who was moved off the position in the minors in 2011 — is good enough to play shortstop regularly because of his limited range. That goes double on a team whose path to winning is through pitching and defense rather than a high-powered offense, and in an infield where second baseman Daniel Murphy is no great shakes with the glove, either. As for the moves they did make, gone are outfielders Bobby Abreu (retired), Andrew Brown (lost on waivers to the A's) and Eric Young Jr (non-tendered). Abreu's comeback amounted to 155 plate appearances and a .248/.342/.338 line, while Brown hit just .182/.245/.341 in 49 PA that were all downhill after his three-run homer off Stephen Strasburg on Opening Day and Young hit an abysmal .229/.299/.311 in 316 PA, mostly as their out-eating leftfielder. Also gone via free agency is pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka, who made nine starts and 25 relief appearances en route to a 3.89 ERA (90 ERA+) in 89 1/3 innings. Reliever Gonzalez German, who made 25 appearances totaling 30 1/3 innings, has bounced from the Mets to the Yankees to the Rangers to the Cubs in a suspense-filled waiver wire odyssey over the last six weeks. In other words, none of those players are great losses. Arriving in Queens is backup outfielder/first baseman John Mayberry Jr., a 31-year-old righty who hit .212/.310/.425 with seven homers and a 104 OPS+ in 168 PA split between the Phillies and Blue Jays. He owns a career .269/.324/.533 line in 534 PA against lefties, making him a useful platoon complement to Duda (.212/.292/.317 in 470 career PA against southpaws). Via the Rule 5 draft comes 24-year-old lefty Sean Gilmartin, a 2011 first-round pick who split last year between the Twins' Double A and Triple A affiliates, posting a 3.71 ERA and 8.2 strikeouts per nine in 145 2/3 innings as a starter; if he sticks, it will likely be as a situational reliever. Unfinished business: Shortstop, rotation cleanup In Harvey, Gee, Niese, Bartolo Colon, Zack Wheeler and reigning NL Rookie of the Year Jake deGrom, New York has six starters plus prospects Syndergaard, Steven Matz and Rafael Montero waiting in the wings. That wealth of young pitching may be unequaled in the game today and it's clearly the future on which the team's competitive aspirations rest, but that doesn't mean the Mets should hoard it. Instead, they can use their surplus of arms to fill other needs. Aside from shortstop, second base might also be a priority given that Murphy is a year away from free agency and going-on-21-year-old prospect Dilson Herrera still needs more seasoning. Also, just because New York has expensive corner outfielders in Cuddyer and Curtis Granderson (owed $49 million through 2017) that doesn’t mean that it can win with those two in place. ?Either Gee or Niese are likely to be moved before Opening Day. Gee, who turns 29 on April 28, pitched to a 4.00 ERA but just a 4.52 FIP in 137 1/3 innings. Given his career 93 ERA+ and his meager ability to miss bats (6.2 K/9 last year, 6.5 career), he's unlikely to bring back much more than a stopgap in a trade, but at least he's inexpensive. He's making $5.3 million this year and he has one more year of club control. Niese, a 28-year-old lefty, whiffed just 6.6 per nine in 2014 himself, but thanks to his ability to avoid the longball he put up a 3.40 ERA and 3.67 FIP in 187 2/3 innings. He's got as many as four more years of control via guaranteed salaries of $7 million in 2015 and $9 million in '16, with club options of $10 million and $11 million — both with just $500K buyouts — for 2017 and '18 as well. That's the kind of piece that can be used to bring back something beyond a placeholder. ?Likewise, the 24-year-old Montero, who made eight starts and two relief appearances totaling 44 1/3 innings with the Mets and had a 3.60 ERA with 9.0 K/9 in 80 innings at Las Vegas, could be in play if Syndergaard and Matz aren't. Matz, by the way, is a 24-year-old lefty who split the year between High A and Double A and is now considered the team's second-best prospect. Preliminary grade: D New York modestly upgraded its offense but burned a draft pick on an aged, oft-injured player to do so. While the team hasn't squandered its pitching depth, it still has more than it can use -- even accounting for the inevitable injuries -- as well as a clear need at a key position. The Braves and Philies are rebuilding, creating an opportunity for this team to contend for a postseason spot, but whereas the Marlins have seized the initiative and bulked up significantly, the Mets haven't done the same — even while claiming that ticket sales are surging significantly. Yup, still business as usual in Queens.

Ceetar Jan 28 2015 08:11 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

I'd probably give them more a C. I know Spring Training starts in like 3 weeks, but what is it about this week that has everyone writing about offseason grades like the season starts tomorrow?

batmagadanleadoff Jan 28 2015 08:15 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Ceetar wrote: I'd probably give them more a C. I know Spring Training starts in like 3 weeks, but what is it about this week that has everyone writing about offseason grades like the season starts tomorrow? "With little less than four weeks before pitchers and catchers report, we're checking in on how each team has fared in conducting its offseason business while acknowledging that there's still time for its prognosis to change."

Edgy MD Jan 28 2015 08:15 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

They'll have other things to write about on April 1. January is dead time for baseball writers.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 28 2015 08:17 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Ceetar wrote: I'd probably give them more a C. I'd bet anything that if SI gave the Mets a "C", then you woulda given the Mets a "B".

Ceetar Jan 28 2015 08:20 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Edgy MD wrote: They'll have other things to write about on April 1. January is dead time for baseball writers. Pretty much. I've always found it hard to want to read the forced/filler posts, even if they're good. I'm just stubborn though, don't like being told what the topic of discussion is for this week. batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: I'd probably give them more a C. I'd bet anything that if SI gave the Mets a "C", then you woulda given the Mets a "B". Nope, I just like the Cuddyer signing more than most and realize Granderson wasn't bad and trust/hope in David Wright to not be injured. I like Mayberry as a good bench guy. Don't think the rotation needs to be immediately pruned.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 28 2015 08:31 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

SI's Mets Winter Report Card (Hanley mentioned): Winter Report Card: New York Mets by Jay Jaffe Posted: Tue Jan. 27, 2015 While the Mets finished below .500 for the sixth straight season in 2014, they did show signs of progress: their 79 wins were their most since 2010, and thanks to the Braves' sudden collapse and the Phillies' reluctance to rebuild, New York actually finished tied with the Marlins for second place in the NL East —17 games back, sure, but closer to the top than in any season since 2008. Great lede, Jay. The Marlins will be happy to learn they finished in 2nd. As for the Mets, Evereth Cabrera is still out there, I think. My plan now is to sign him to a deal with the idea of stashing him as the emergency/backup SS or at worst the everyday Vegas SS, and cut Tejada loose along with Gee. If the Flores thing truly is a disaster at SS you've got a better potential Plan B while you still have the option of flipping Muffy before the break and moving Flores and/or Herrera to 2B. All that could still happen before the season begins if someone wants the Muffster enough, although if he really goes, maybe its in a deal for Desmond.

Ceetar Jan 28 2015 08:42 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

rather Tejada than Evereth.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2015 08:45 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

What's the motivation with releasing Geejada? Aren't they already guaranteed to be paid at this point anyhow?

Benjamin Grimm Jan 28 2015 09:08 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

I'm sure Gee has trade value. The fact that he hasn't been dealt yet is more likely because Sandy is holding out for the best deal possible than that nobody at all wants him.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 28 2015 09:44 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Edgy MD wrote: What's the motivation with releasing Geejada? Aren't they already guaranteed to be paid at this point anyhow? Well, I am saying trade them. I wouldn't necessarily expect that Cabrera is a big upgrade over Tejada but for this club especially I'd prefer a generic singles hitting SS who can steal bases and run well than one who can't. And generally, when a guy's role changes from FT to PT, his club provides the courtesy of allowing him to transition (and possibly fight his way back) on another club. We already know the org has had issues with Tejada in the past, it just seems like time to move on for a lot of reasons.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2015 09:54 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Ah, makey more sense there. I'd certainly like to bring in Everth or some other ML vet to keep the heat on Tejada. He's certainly shown that heat can keep him focused.

Ceetar Jan 28 2015 09:56 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Edgy MD wrote: Ah, makey more sense there. I'd certainly like to bring in Everth or some other ML vet to keep the heat on Tejada. He's certainly shown that heat can keep him focused. some nicely timed BABIP regression certainly helps with that perception. Yes, they definitely should have more than 2 possible SS around on the 40 man. If I hear 'Omar Quintanilla' floated should someone get hurt I might cry.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2015 10:04 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Quintanilla may be the second-best option remaining on the market, depending on how washed up you think Rafael Furcal is. Let's offer a minor-league deal to Jeter.

Ceetar Jan 28 2015 10:04 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Edgy MD wrote: Quintanilla may be the second-best option remaining on the market. Let's offer a minor-league deal to Jeter. and then a job in the front office when he retires again after 7 games. We can call the Marty Special.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 28 2015 01:10 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Edgy MD wrote: Ah, makey more sense there. I'd certainly like to bring in Everth or some other ML vet to keep the heat on Tejada. He's certainly shown that heat can keep him focused. Yeah, but, see, Everth doesn't do so well around heat.

Edgy MD Jan 28 2015 01:27 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Well, that's why you bring in on a minor league deal and send him to Vegas. Sink or swim, Evy.

Edgy MD Apr 23 2015 02:41 PM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

Boom! Improving without transacting.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 24 2015 10:40 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

?

Edgy MD Apr 24 2015 10:53 AM Re: REAL Offseason Shenanigans (spit from Offseason Shenanig

!!