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Willie Mays Libel Alert

Edgy MD Jan 29 2015 08:35 PM

"Tiger Woods Shoots 73 at Phoenix Open in First Round of 2015." Woods bogeyed the first two holes and double bogeyed the fourth. He was making Willie Mays on the Mets look like Mike Trout on the Angels. It was tough to watch at times.

MFS62 Jan 30 2015 07:31 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

If the writer, Kyle Porter, is old enough to remember Mays on the Mets, then he is old enough to realize how absolutely painful that is. Maybe that's why he's a golf writer. This was probably his one chance to get snarky in a story. Later

Edgy MD Jan 30 2015 07:51 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

It was painful? i was five, but I tend to think it was full of grace and meaning.

RealityChuck Jan 30 2015 12:50 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

Mays's "decline" was primarily due to the fact that he misjudged one fly ball in the playoffs. Admittedly, Mays was known to be a terrific defender, so that sort of thing was unusual for him, but everyone makes mistakes. And he still could hit: his OPS+ in 1972 was a healthy 131. Mays wanted to retire then, but was persuaded to come back one more year. He didn't play all that well, but his OPS+ was 81, so he wasn't exactly an embarrassment, especially since their regular center fielder, Don Hahn had and OPS of 67 (and it was higher then Grote's and about the same as Harrelson's). About the only thing he was guilty of was not being a young Willie Mays. The myth is probably the second biggest bit of counterfactual "common knowledge" in Mets history, almost as bad as the myth that the Mets should have known not to trade Nolan Ryan (all statistics -- including modern ones -- show that Ryan was regressing at an alarming rate and was likely to be a bust).

G-Fafif Jan 30 2015 01:55 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

Willie robbed another great center fielder, Willie Davis, on June 9 of his final year, correcting an initial misjudgment on a deep fly ball to the track, holding on to the ball after taking a tumble. Then he got up and homered to give the Mets the lead in a game they'd eventually win. Let's see Kyle Porter do anything that impressive at any stage of his career.

Frayed Knot Jan 30 2015 02:09 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

RealityChuck wrote: Mays's "decline" was primarily due to the fact that he misjudged one fly ball in the playoffs. And it was as much a case of losing a ball in the October sun than misjudging it.

Edgy MD Jan 30 2015 02:09 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

I think I need to make this my life's work — ending "Like Willie Mays at the end of his career with the Mets" as the go-to analogy for writing about people hanging around too long. First of all, there's no shame in hanging around too long. I myself have been hanging around too long since I was about six. You want the old guy off the stage? You out-perform him, period. For another, it's fact-poor. Any good analysis says, "he did good in his first year, got hurt in his second, and hung 'em up, but not before doing his best for his team in an unlikely World Series run." Plus, there's this strange value of "going out on one's own terms." Why is putting down your spear and going back to the tent really such a better thing than taking arrows for your side until you drop? Beyond that, Willie held a press conference and retired at the end of the season, just like Jeter, and just like Ripken, and just like all those other "on their own terms" guys. Lastly, Jeter sucked far more down the home stretch than Willie on his worst day. Did far more damage to his team's aspirations.

Fman99 Jan 31 2015 05:22 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

Edgy MD wrote: Lastly, Jeter sucked far more down the home stretch than Willie on his worst day. Did far more damage to his team's aspirations. Have fun in Hell. You can't say something blasphemous as this without expecting consequences!

Mets – Willets Point Jan 31 2015 09:12 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

Fman99 wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Lastly, Jeter sucked far more down the home stretch than Willie on his worst day. Did far more damage to his team's aspirations. Have fun in Hell. You can't say something blasphemous as this without expecting consequences! Edgy will take abuse during his lifetime for saying that, but will be rewarded for his martyrdom in the afterlife.

G-Fafif Jan 31 2015 09:40 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

SI tribute to Ernie Banks included a photo where he deigned to pose with Cinnamon Boy. My honest reaction was "did Jeter ever apologize for annoying Mr. Cub?"

Edgy MD Jan 31 2015 10:58 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

That cinnamon thing is gonna come back at you, DJ. It's gonna come back hard.

Lefty Specialist Jan 31 2015 02:19 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

Tiger shot an 82 yesterday. That's Pedro Feliciano-on-the Yankees bad. Of course, it's better than me on my best day, but......

Ceetar Jan 31 2015 05:17 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

Lefty Specialist wrote: Tiger shot an 82 yesterday. That's Pedro Feliciano-on-the Yankees bad. Of course, it's better than me on my best day, but...... I've never had a round that bad myself.

Rockin' Doc Jan 31 2015 08:28 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

Tiger Woods is no Willie Mays.

G-Fafif Feb 02 2015 08:38 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

George Vecsey touches on Willie's Met detour in a column devoted primarily to Martin Brodeur and more broadly local icons who didn't get to spend their entire career in a New York (or New Jersey) uniform. Willie Mays came back from San Francisco in 1972, to the city where he had begun in 1951. He returned as a beloved relative, not only of the city but also of Joan Whitney Payson, the owner of the Mets, whose family had once owned a small piece of the Giants. In her jolly, entitled way, she meant no harm, even if her nostalgia led to the unfortunate game in the 1973 World Series when Mays stumbled in the outfield and on the basepaths, his great reflexes clearly shot. He retired after that Series, but everybody understood the sentimentality behind his homecoming.

Edgy MD Feb 02 2015 08:59 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

There we go. George Vecsey should know better. His lost ball in the sun we've spoken about. The stumble on the base paths was ultimately harmless. Most importantly, he drove in the winning run in the 12th inning off of a Hall of Fame pitcher in one of his best seasons after suckering the catcher into calling for the pitch he wanted.

G-Fafif Feb 02 2015 09:54 AM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

I can sooner accept the assessment (shallow as it may be) from the likes of a baseball writer who covered Mays in his prime -- who was also a fan who watched Mays when he was a revelation -- than I can the tossed-off line of a generations-removed golf writer who's just repeating a cliche whose accuracy he's likely never given a second thought to. Bonus points for Vecsey explaining, in part, the attraction of Mays instead of just scoffing at him for being older than he had been previously.

Edgy MD Feb 08 2015 12:18 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

Somebody writes in to SFGate saying that he's not interested in seeing the reunited surviving Grateful Dead play Wrigley. Doesn't want to see the Dead? You'd think I'd be down with this man. You'd think wrong. The last place to be next Fourth of July weekend is in sweltering Chicago, watching the wheezing relics of the Grateful Dead play songs badly that one could see knockoff bands play a lot better. I speak as someone who loved going to Dead shows for decades. Guys, your recordings (even bad bootlegs) speak for themselves. Jerry is gone; Pigpen, Brent and Vince are gone. It was awful seeing Willie Mays lurch around center field for the Mets, and it’s awful hearing Phil and Bob butcher songs they once sang and played magnificently. Jeff Zorn, Santa Clara Hey, Jeff Zorn... shut up.

TheOldMole Feb 08 2015 03:50 PM Re: Willie Mays Libel Alert

]I'm really glad to see this thread. That "Willie was an embarrassment" meme has always made my blood boil. I was living in the Santa Cruz mountains in '72, and my daughters were visiting me for the summer. We went to see the Mets at Candlestick for Willie's first game back. My oldest wanted to sit in the left field bleachers to catch a Willie Mays home run. I said nah, we'll get better seats. What are the chances of him hitting a home run into the left field bleachers?