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CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

The Sub-Mariner

6 votes

Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze)

7 votes

Edgy MD Feb 14 2015 02:42 PM

Some dig their dudes in tight bright swim trunks. Others like their men in rugged black leather and chains. Those two factions can settle their differences here and now, as Namor meets Johnny Blaze in the Gods and the Occult Bracket of the Marvel Conference. [fimg=350]http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/Namor-The-Submarine.jpg[/fimg] [fimg=240]http://img2.hebus.com/hebus_2011/01/12/preview/110112162151_28.jpg[/fimg] Character Name: The Sub-Mariner Character Name: Ghost Rider First Appearance: Motion Picture Funnies Weekly (April 1939) First Appearance: Marvel Spotlight #5 (August 1972) Creator(s): Bill Everett Creator(s): Gary Friedrich, Roy Thomas, Mike Ploog Alter-Ego: Lord Namor of Atlantis; aka Namor McKenzie, Namor the First, The Avenging Son, Imperius Rex Alter-Ego: Johnny Blaze; other Ghost Riders have been Carter Slade, Danny Ketch, "Alejandra," and Robbie Reyes, but Johnny Blaze is the man. Place of Birth: Atlantis Place of Birth: Waukegan, IL How He Came to Be: Born a prince of Atlantis, despite being half human (his mother married a human while spying on us), he fought against humanity on behalf of his blue-skinned cousins. An imperious and proud chest-thumper, he has since alternated between taking humanity's part and getting pissed at us all over. How He Came to Be: When his adoptive father Crash Simpson is dying of cancer, stunt cyclist Johnny Blaze's dabbling in the occult becomes something more than dabbling. He summons Mephisto from the bowels of Hell, offering to trade his soul for the life of his adoptive dad. Johnny's adoptive sister (and sweetie) Roxanne had grown concerned in Johnny's dabbling, so she did some reading too, and interrupted this diabolical ceremony by dispelling Meph. Meph got pissed, and on his way back to the depts, bound Johnny's soul with that of a Zarathos, a demon bent on punishing the wicked. Base of Operations: Formerly New Atlantis, Utopia, San Francisco Bay, California; Atlantis; occasionally mobile Base of Operations: Mobile. Totally mobile. Have bike, wil travel. I mean, he hung around the Defenders for a bit and such, but the guy is a textbook drifter. Teams/Affiliations: He's been around a while and played for everybody: Invaders, All-Winners Squad, Avengers, Defenders, Deep Six, Illuminati, The Cabal, Dark X-Men, X-Men, The Order, Heroes for Hire/Oracle, Inc., Phoenix Five Teams/Affiliations: Avengers of the Supernatural, Champions, Defenders, Heroes for Hire, Legion of Monsters, Midnight Sons, Thunderbolts Signature Lines: "Imperius Rex!" Signature Lines: "Stupid human! Will you never learn? Mine is the power of Hell unleashed!" Arch-Enemy: Attuma Arch-Enemy: The Orb Sidekick(s): None Sidekick(s): Daniel Ketch's version of the GR eventually becomes Johnny's sidekick. Paramour(s): Lady Dorma, The Invisible Girl/Sue Storm Richards and he have kicked up a few sparks Paramour Roxanne Simpson (eventual wife), Chloe (last name?) Has Been Played By: Richard Egan (never aired), Patrick Duffy (kinda) Once Played By: Nicolas Cage Could Have Been Played By: Zachary Quinto Could Have Been Played By: Evel Knievel Song I Think Of: Under the Sea" Song I Think Of: Bat Out of Hell" Supernatural Powers: Namor's a human AND an Atlantean AND a mutant. He's a triple threat. He's got the stuff of your standard amphibian hero, in that he can breathe and communicate underwater, swim at great speeds, and withstand deep sea pressure as well as the lighter, surface variety. And he's got enhanced vision that allows him to see in the depths and accompanying murk. Beyond that, he's a muscle guy, with super-strength (he can toss around an ocean liner), super-agility, super-speed, and flight (due to wings on his ankles. He has enhanced longevity, being over 90 in the current timeline but still in his primo years. He's got like fishman pheremones working for him, because despite being goofy looking no matter who draws him, and a Grade-A illeist bore, women find him generally irresistible." Supernatural Powers: Let's start with bikes. When possessed by the spirit of the Ghost Rider, Johnny bike can burn but not be consumed. He accellerates, and his tires turn to Hellfire. Any part of the bike can burn like Holy Hell. As great a biker as Johnny is, the Ghost Rider makes him look silly, doing impossible stunts like jumping rivers, driving up the side of buildings, or a tooling across the surface of the water. He's Ghost Rider. What? You say he doesn't have a bike? Shut up. He can generate one from pure flame. Hellfire, yo. In Ghost Rider form, Blaze's flesh is replaced by a body of pure hellfire simmering on a burning skeleton, with it's shape conforming to the musculature of Johnny's frame. A body of Hellfire is a hard thing to hurt, and bullets go through him heavy blows may knock him aside, but they don't take him out. He's strong when he's got to be strong and nimble when he's got to be nimble. The greatest power of being the Ghost Rider is the Penance stare. He looks you in the eyes and it is damnation on earth. The weight of all your sins consumes you and your soul feels the torment of Hellfire, in proportion to the volume of your sinning ways — which is substantial for any of us, but for the maniacs that Johnny Blaze encounters, it is a terror. Johnny leaves most of his opponents in the state of a drooling quivering mess, with eyes out of focus and mouth in a terrified rictus, with any potential eventual recovery into functionality remaining well in doubt. While there may be undocumented cases. I think the only known case of recovery was that of Doctor Strange." Non-Super Abilities: Namor is a leader and a strategist, and troops follow him faithfully. He's a good businessman and a polyglot." Non-Super Abilities: If johnny isn't the greatest stunt cyclist in the world, he's certainly in the class picture. And it's a small class. He's also, by necessity, become pretty advanced in the study of the occult. He's become a businessman in later years, taking over ownership of the traveling road show/circus he sprung from, which hasn't stopped it from being a magnet from all sorts of nefarious creeps. (So maybe he stinks at business.) Stuff: Aside from fancy underpants, Namor for a time bore the "Time Gem," one of the six infinity stones. This gave him power over time, allowing himself to jump fore and aft on the time continuum, and allowing him to age an opponent forward and backward. I don't think he's holding it at present. Stuff: Besides a history of sweet bikes (check out the Skull Cycle), latter-day versions of the GR have him weilding a chain. The chain too is made of Hellfire, and the Ghost Rider can control its movements mentally and make it reach extensive distances when he weilds it. You don't want to mess with that chain. Weaknesses: His super strength works better in the water, and it progressively abates the longer he is out of water. It has been theorized that his lousy personality is a due to manic depression — a product of his human/Atlantean hybrid nature. He's really a Grade A tool. Meet him at a party, and the way he talks about himself is funny at first, but then you realize there's a reason nobody's hanging out with him, pheremones or no." Weaknesses: Johnny doesn't always have a lot of control of this Ghost Rider business. During some periods in his history, he has transformed when night falls, like a lycanthrope. Sometimes, he's transformed when he feels angry, like the Hulk. Other times, he transformed when he smells a sinner in the air, or at will. The greater issue is that there are periods where Johnny's personality is in charge and periods when Zarthos is in charge. And Zarathos likes punishing sinners, without as much mercy as Johnny might have, or distincition between the pathetic or the penitent on one hand, and the truly diabolical and unreptentant on the other.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 14 2015 02:53 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

. This is a really easy choice. IMPERIOUS REX![/bigpurple]

Edgy MD Feb 14 2015 03:03 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Easy-peasy, you betcha. [fimg=400:14ydu4w1]https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/734647.jpg[/fimg:14ydu4w1] Look at those fools! Get a bike or get off the road, jackasses!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 14 2015 04:12 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Ghost Rider? A tough first-round foe, to be sure. But, next round...

Frayed Knot Feb 14 2015 05:18 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Namor and Nomar strike similar shirtless poses. [fimg=450]http://thegoldensombrero.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/nomar_si.jpg[/fimg]

Edgy MD Feb 14 2015 06:45 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Ghost Rider is great. Quintessential embodiment of seventies quintessence. A lost loner, wandering the road in search of America, searching for his soul, freaks for friends, betrayed by church but looking to salvation, trying to navigate the worst sort of moral ambiguity, fighting evil while his very existence is based on a deal with the worst sort of evil. He's saving the world by searching for himself and his lost soul. And he gets two skeletal thumbs up from me.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 14 2015 08:56 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Here's the thing, though-- doesn't the Penance Stare kinda hinge on the object's ability to feel guilt? Like, if you're encountering true sociopaths and/or the literally soulless-- and Lord knows, John-Boy meets more than his share-- then wouldn't that, like, take away a big arrow from your quiver?

Edgy MD Feb 14 2015 09:10 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

I've never known that to be the case in the seventies run. The wages of your sins catch up with you whether you care for them or not. We all believe in what we believe in, but only a fool thinks that's going to get him off the hook when confronted with the reality of what's behind the curtain.

Zvon Feb 15 2015 01:58 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Have no comic experience with either but I used to watch the mid-60s Saturday morning cartoons, where I did become familiar with Submariner. He was probably my least favorite of the group of heroes though. Remember these cartoons? Instead of going to the trouble of animated walking, they just glided around the screen. That was a good line up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 15 2015 02:14 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Is it weird that I despise Quicksilver and am more than a little Iron Man- and Pym-averse on priggishness grounds, but love the fish-poo out of Namor?

Benjamin Grimm Feb 15 2015 02:29 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

He's such a great character, with such a great history. I even forgive him for the times when he led giant sea monsters to attack New York City.

Edgy MD Feb 15 2015 03:23 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Zvon wrote: Have no comic experience with either but I used to watch the mid-60s Saturday morning cartoons, where I did become familiar with Submariner. He was probably my least favorite of the group of heroes though. Who are you kidding? He was EVERYBODY'S least favorite. But he's getting ahead because of a high profile and big shot associations? It's like voting for Ringo Starr over Pete Townsend. OUTRAGEOUS!!

Edgy MD Feb 15 2015 03:31 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He's such a great character, with such a great history. I even forgive him for the times when he led giant sea monsters to attack New York City. That sort of assertion makes a man wonder where your allegiance lies. That attack did NOT help the Mets season that year. You want a cover that makes a kid willing to lay down his last 30 cents in the world, here you go. THAT's comic booking, right there. FREAKS! Rendered in something like the Mets rode font, too.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 15 2015 06:04 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

I'm afraid I disagree. I never saw Ghost Rider as anything more than a fringe character. But the Sub-Mariner is a major big deal, and has always been a favorite of mine.

Edgy MD Feb 15 2015 08:05 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Poor. Man's. Aquaman.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 16 2015 04:40 AM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

You have that backwards. It's like calling Greg Maddux a poor man's Rick Reed.

Edgy MD Feb 16 2015 07:27 AM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

OK, then, Sam Donaldson in swim trunks?

Vic Sage Feb 18 2015 03:06 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

i'm totally down with Edgy on this one. I understand Namor ("Roman" spelled backwards) is a foundational Golden age character, and powerful as hell (he's got wings on his HEELS, man!) but he's a cold fish. And i never cared for the way he put the moves on Sue Storm. Reed is standing right there, dammit! And he was often a villain, too, so he doesn't get the purist's vote. But Johnny Blaze? Burning skull, flaming bike, enchanted chain, werewolvian metamorphoses, travelling stunt circus, demonic possession, and a road movie across 70s America, with a tragic young hero trying to find meaning for his life. It's like EASY RIDER + FAUST + EVEL KNIEVEL, only more so. The visual iconography of this character endures. Namor, on the other hand, is an aquatic Spock on steroids. Frankly, he's just a dick.

Mets – Willets Point Feb 23 2015 08:44 AM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

We went out for brunch yesterday and for some reason a tv was showing Nicholas Cage as Ghost Rider. Even with the sound off, this movie was so, so, so, so terribly, awfully bad. But at least from this poll I knew that Ghost Rider is a legendary comic book character.

Vic Sage Feb 23 2015 04:44 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Then our work here is done.

Edgy MD Feb 23 2015 06:11 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Little-known fact: Michael Jackson only invited Paul McCartney to be his duettist after a failed session with Ghost Rider.

Nymr83 Feb 23 2015 10:31 PM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Nicolas Cage almost made me vote for he submariner, but I'm going strictly with comics so Ghost Rider survives. I will now try again to forget that movie happened.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 24 2015 07:28 AM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Wow, Namor didn't even get Namor's vote. Poor, humble Sub-Mariner.

Edgy MD Mar 04 2015 08:10 AM Re: CPF WotS, Rd. 1: The Sub-Mariner vs. Ghost Rider

Biker beats swimmer. Fire>Water. 'Specially Hellfire.