Master Index of Archived Threads
IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener
Ceetar Apr 16 2015 07:45 AM |
Dillon Gee vs. Jarred Cosart
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Gwreck Apr 16 2015 07:55 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
More on Cosart:
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 07:57 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Dillon Gee's on a short leash with me. Win here terrific for the Mets, very very good for Dillon Gee.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2015 11:45 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Teal? That's so 2011.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 11:50 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
They will always be teal to me.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2015 11:52 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
The Florida Marlins are dead to me. It's as if they never existed.
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d'Kong76 Apr 16 2015 01:16 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Miami at NY Mets
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d'Kong76 Apr 16 2015 01:19 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2015 01:40 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Why does every home game IGT say "Home Opener"? How many home openers are there?
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TransMonk Apr 16 2015 01:44 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Per Rubin, the Mets are bidding for their first five-game winning streak since May 26-30, 2013.
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Ceetar Apr 16 2015 01:45 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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one for each starter, obviously. This is the Dillon Gee Home Opener.
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 01:52 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Y'know how boxing not only added weight classes by tacking on 'Junior' or 'Super' onto each existing one (plus inventing some entire new ones - 'Cruiserweight' anyone?) but also had the competing alphabet soup of [crossout]corrupt thugs[/crossout] regulating bodies each declare their own king so that every third bout could be labeled as some sort of 'CHAMPIONSHIP' bout? ... well that's what we're doing here. If we do it creatively we hope to able to string this run of 'Opening Events' until sometime into mid-May so as to fool the masses into thinking they're buying into something special and increase our kickback cut of the gate receipts.
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Ceetar Apr 16 2015 01:56 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
tomorrow is Colon Home opener.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 16 2015 02:00 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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What Mid-May? This could go on all season long. There'll be the Syndergaard Home Opener in the Summertime. And then the Matz Home Opener after that. And another home opener for Montero's emergency start.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 02:04 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
It's working so far. That's all I'm saying.
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d'Kong76 Apr 16 2015 02:05 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Ashie62 Apr 16 2015 03:37 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
This is the year to stop taking crap from the fish.
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MFS62 Apr 16 2015 03:44 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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This. Who says we're superstitious? Oh, wait. Later
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 05:22 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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I'm all for this. I'll whip up all the home opener logos. [fimg=400]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dj-ZZ-MrV-g/VS3ddp3He3I/AAAAAAAAYks/7uJWTgY5heg/s640/2015mfcSS-HO1-%25236-z15.png[/fimg] Stanton just took Gee out to right center. 2-0 Stinky Fish.
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Ashie62 Apr 16 2015 05:34 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Gee settling down.
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Ashie62 Apr 16 2015 05:39 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Cosart looks very good.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 05:58 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
At least Gee can lay down a good bunt.
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 06:25 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
BILLY FLOWERS!!!!
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 06:26 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
His fat feets can handle that home run trot.
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d'Kong76 Apr 16 2015 06:27 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Just tuned in for a...
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 06:28 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
So it looks as if we're losing the battle of the pulled-in RF fences to date 2-1
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MFS62 Apr 16 2015 06:30 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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John Sterling would have called it a Floral Delivery. Later
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 06:34 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
NICE THROW d'!
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 06:48 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Gah! Not by a walk! WTF Montero?
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 06:49 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Don't like bringing Montero in this sort of situation.
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Fman99 Apr 16 2015 06:51 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 06:51 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Let's not bring in the fence any more.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 06:55 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
WHOA! Lotta white showing on that one! Great catch Grandy!
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 06:56 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
CUDDY!
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 06:57 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Note to Tim Teufel: RUN on Ozuna.
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 06:59 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
I was telling Timmy to hold him up on that one - and with none out and Ozuna's history I'm still not sure that wasn't the right move.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:01 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Reeamootoe sucks ( |
Lefty Specialist Apr 16 2015 07:03 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Soup is good for you.
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Fman99 Apr 16 2015 07:03 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Eric Campbell, professional hitter.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:04 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
NIIIICE. Soup for everybody!
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:11 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Ichiro = still pretty fit and cut.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:13 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
... and still triple-capable.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:15 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
[bigpurple:lcauymi1]WHOAAAAA[/bigpurple:lcauymi1]
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:17 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
He did not get the plate.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:18 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Ohhhh, the tag. Shit.
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 07:18 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
NO WAY is there enough evidence to overturn ... either on the first tag/no-tag or the second one.
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Fman99 Apr 16 2015 07:19 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Replay blows. Too slow, guys.
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d'Kong76 Apr 16 2015 07:19 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Inconclusive bbbyyy... yer OUT!
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:19 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
They're gonna review this for about eight hours.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 07:20 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Looks safe to me.h
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:20 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
If they reverse this, which I don't think they should, Citi will go ape.
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 07:21 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 16 2015 07:21 PM |
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That's part of the problem. If you have to look at it this many times and split so many hairs then there's not enough evidence and you move on. on edit: Gary agreeing with me.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 07:21 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
I'm almost certain they call him safe.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 07:22 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Told yas
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:23 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
omg. unfknbelievable. Ugh, these umps.
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 07:23 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 16 2015 07:25 PM |
That's allowing ABSURD speculation to over-rule an ump who was 2 feet away with a better angle than any camera did.
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d'Kong76 Apr 16 2015 07:24 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Speeding-up-games going smoothly so far.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:24 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Ichiro gets the veteran's call.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:25 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
I guess none o' youse is watching the Marlins feed and saw an angle Bill Webb didn't get?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 07:25 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Frigging muffy makes a good throw and no controversy.
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Lefty Specialist Apr 16 2015 07:26 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
They gotta figure out a better way to do this. You can't have 5 minute delays in the middle of an inning.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:27 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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It's ironically ridiculous. Or ridiculously ironic.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:28 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Whatever Flores doesn't consume of Dunn, Mayberry will finish off.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:33 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Just saw the Marlins footage. He was safe.
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Fman99 Apr 16 2015 07:34 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Grandy leading the NL in walks from the leadoff spot. That's good.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:35 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Big at-bat and chance to make up for that play, Travis.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:40 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Your big here Dude.
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Fman99 Apr 16 2015 07:44 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 07:44 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
LUCAS DUDA IS A GOLDEN GOD!!
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:45 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
YES! Duda IS the man.
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Frayed Knot Apr 16 2015 07:47 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Is it my imagination or is that the first time we've hit Dunn, like ever?
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:48 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Cuddy! Ahhh, I love baseball. A perfect dribbler to third.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 07:50 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
That's some good teammatin', Prado.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 07:50 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
These Mets. Damn.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:56 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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My Dyson vacuums have sharp bristles and rotary engines that suck even more than I do, which is quite a bit.
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 07:59 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Ozuna didn't come anywhere near that pitch. GJ CTorres.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 08:06 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
It's a Familia affair.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Apr 16 2015 08:07 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Was listening to the game with the MLB ap while driving back from an event in Kalamazoo.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Apr 16 2015 08:09 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Familia is not going to make us miss Mejia.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 08:10 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
It's nice to see swings and misses on sinkers.
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 08:13 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Deaux.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Apr 16 2015 08:13 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
That's two!
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d'Kong76 Apr 16 2015 08:14 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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d'Kong76 Apr 16 2015 08:14 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
First place, New York Mets
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 08:14 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Booooooks
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 08:14 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
It's called baseball, my friends.
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Mets Guy in Michigan Apr 16 2015 08:15 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2015 08:17 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
This post game fella ti on is hard to watch. LEAVE LUCAS ALONE
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Zvon Apr 16 2015 08:23 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
TICK,TACK,TOE, 5 IN A ROW!
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Edgy MD Apr 16 2015 09:27 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
How much patience did they show to get him where he is now? He goes back to Jerry Manuel.
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Ceetar Apr 17 2015 05:33 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Considering he was average in 2012 and a solid hitter every other year I'd say the patience was in finding him a place to play that he wouldn't wreck them defensively.
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Benjamin Grimm Apr 17 2015 05:44 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I don't mind the four-minute delay for the challenge. It made for compelling television, with a nice sense of suspense. My wife, who really doesn't care about baseball at all, put down what she was doing and was drawn in, watching the different replay angles and trying to determine what the right call was. (For the record, I thought Ichiro was safe, so I couldn't be too upset when the call was reversed.)
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Edgy MD Apr 17 2015 06:16 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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I didn't say otherwise.
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Ceetar Apr 17 2015 07:20 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Well Zvon did. And he's hardly the only one.
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Edgy MD Apr 17 2015 07:21 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Well, I am the only one you quoted.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 17 2015 07:32 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Crazy thing is, everyone bought into the idea Doodoo was a kind of freak who might have mental or emotional issues. This forum overwhelmingly voted in consecutive years to keep Ike and not him. (except for me, though my argument was based more on my doubt in Ike than belief in the big guy).
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 17 2015 07:36 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Here's the first one: [url]http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/18200/f1_t18248.shtml
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 17 2015 07:41 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Here's the other one:
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Edgy MD Apr 17 2015 07:41 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
I also pegged him for 30 homers in the expectations threads a year or two before it happened.
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Ceetar Apr 17 2015 07:44 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Looks like Ralph, Keith (and my father) were right. Thanks to Seawolf for sending along some extra Duda rookie? cards for him, even if it confused my wife as to why I was getting mail from Stonybrook.
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Ashie62 Apr 17 2015 09:15 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
It was posted by someone in the offseason that Duda could be more "looming". I would say that Duda has become a loomoing presence to opposing pitchers.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2015 09:38 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Lucas Duda absolutely raked it at every level of pro baseball he ever played at. Sometimes though, he'd need some time to adjust. The man can hit.* Just don't put him in the outfield, thank you. "What does a feller need to do to get his own thread around here? And who's David Wright?" [fimg=566]https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0x91rFZBF_AHNu9XyPIxZR4loDnhd-4v8tZu9mQGd4FFUNXUudw[/fimg] *Righties, anyway.
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Vic Sage Apr 17 2015 10:41 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Look, I'm very happy Duda has had 10 good games and so has gotten off to a strong start, but he's a lifetime .250 hitter, so lets not designate him the face of the franchise for the next decade just yet.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2015 10:44 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Apr 17 2015 10:47 AM |
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Point well taken. But I'd take Duda over Wright in a bet over who's the best hitter going forward over the rest of their careers.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 17 2015 10:45 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Fuck that, he's the fucking MVP and the Mets are on pace for 113 wins.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2015 10:46 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Who's the fucking MVP?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 17 2015 10:47 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Doodoo
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Ceetar Apr 17 2015 10:49 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Harvey, obviously.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2015 10:50 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
"Fuck that shit. I don't say 'Who's David Wright?' I say 'Who the fuck is David Wright'?"
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Ceetar Apr 17 2015 10:50 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
nobody cares about batting average.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2015 10:57 AM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Nobody? Read that Chalmers book Lunchie's reading.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 17 2015 12:07 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
My favorite part of the postgame may have been that on-field interview with NotKevin, if only because Lucas was all false-modesty-shucks, when you know he knows what's different about his approach, it's just that you're not going to be privy to that, NotKevin.
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Ceetar Apr 17 2015 12:13 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Frayed Knot Apr 17 2015 12:20 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
Yes it's only ten games ... BUTTTTT
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Vic Sage Apr 17 2015 01:00 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
clearly BA is not the end all or be all, and should be given vastly less credit than it has been for most of the 20th century, but it's not meaningless. And walks are good, and have been undervalued, but they are not QUITE as good as actual hits. A walk isn't going to drive in a guy, unless the bases are loaded at the time. In which case, a hit would still drive in more. Given a guy who hits .250/30hrs and one who hits .300/30 hrs, I'll take the guy who hits .300, thanks.
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Ceetar Apr 17 2015 01:08 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
consider he's been pretty damn good for years I'd imagine that's so.
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batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2015 02:17 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
How do you know? The .300 hitter will have a higher SLG and perhaps OPS.
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Zvon Apr 17 2015 02:55 PM Re: IGT #10 4/16 vs Marlins: Dillon Gee Home Opener |
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Agreed. But this is baseball. Lets get excited about the possibility. I have put in for a nickname change. He has grown out of The Dude. The Lumberjack. Get it? He takes the lumber and then he jacks one! [fimg=333]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Pk5dNYq1HZU/VTDGplx1jnI/AAAAAAAAYz8/9RDOkr1v_zs/s512/2015mfcSS-lucasDUDA-LUMBERJACK-z15.png[/fimg] Awwwwwwww, my nicknames never stick.
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