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Pat Venditte

Frayed Knot Jun 05 2015 09:53 AM

Called up to the majors by Oakland. Wait, who? This guy, that's who. [fimg=400:3d7d4zgs]https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/venditte.jpg?w=720&h=480&crop=1[/fimg:3d7d4zgs] The 29 y/o draft pick of the Yanx in 2008 (20th round - also 45th round in 2007 but didn't sign) was 1-0 with a 1.36 ERA and 0.97 WHiP with AAA Nashville so this is no Veeck-ian stunt. And, in what's unusual in today's game for a reliever, has 33 innings pitched over just 19 game appearances. Oakland is in Boston this weekend.

TransMonk Jun 05 2015 09:58 AM Re: Pat Venditte

Wait, he's a switch-pitcher?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 05 2015 10:47 AM Re: Pat Venditte

Never heard of him, Monk? I swear I've known about this guy-- and heard about him everytime someone new does-- for, like, a decade. (OE: Close.)

Frayed Knot Jun 05 2015 11:00 AM Re: Pat Venditte

TransMonk wrote: Wait, he's a switch-pitcher? Yup. Did it all through college and the minors (almost exclusively as a reliever). He must declare prior to each batter which hand he intends to pitch with and then must stick to it through the entire AB. But he's got a custom made glove that fits on either hand and he's free to swap for the next guy and then back again for the one after that and so on.

Ceetar Jun 05 2015 11:16 AM Re: Pat Venditte

I feel like this is obligatory. Switch pitcher vs switch hitter Good stuff at 1m43 or so. link starts there.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 05 2015 11:31 AM Re: Pat Venditte

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Never heard of him, Monk? I swear I've known about this guy-- and heard about him everytime someone new does-- for, like, a decade. (OE: Close.) His name wasn't familiar to me either. I've probably heard it but failed to retain it.

Edgy MD Jun 05 2015 12:57 PM Re: Pat Venditte

TransMonk wrote: Wait, he's a switch-pitcher? And a switch hitter. And a switch glover.

themetfairy Jun 05 2015 07:29 PM Re: Pat Venditte

He's pitching against Boston NOW! And very effectively, from both sides of the plate. OE - the protocol came up when Venditte changed his mind about how he wanted to pitch to a switch-hitter. He can change his mind until he signals to the ump what hand he's using for the batter, and then he has to stick with that one for the rest of the at-bat.

Frayed Knot Jun 05 2015 07:35 PM Re: Pat Venditte Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 06 2015 10:16 AM

Boston's switch-hitting catcher, Blake Swihart, came up thinking he was going to bat right-handed. But then when Venditte indicated he wanted to throw righty, Swihart had to return to the dugout to get his left-hand hitting batting helmet. Venditte's line: 2 IP, 0 runs, 1 hit, pitched LH to the first hitter then RH to the remaining five (there was a GiDP thrown in so he faced the minimum despite allowing the one single)

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2015 07:32 AM Re: Pat Venditte

I like that this guy has his own rule -- Rule 8.01(f) established in 2008, aka 'The Pat Venditte Rule' -- which tries to anticipate all possible contingencies including warming up with the "new" arm when he switches (not allowed) and one where he claims to suffer an arm injury within an at bat which causes him to switch arms. Rule 8.01 (f): A pitcher must indicate visually to the umpire-in-chief, the batter and any runners the hand with which he intends to pitch, which may be done by wearing his glove on the other hand while touching the pitcher's plate. The pitcher is not permitted to pitch with the other hand until the batter is retired, the batter becomes a runner, the inning ends, the batter is substituted for by a pinch-hitter or the pitcher incurs an injury. In the event a pitcher switches pitching hands during an at-bat because he has suffered an injury, the pitcher may not, for the remainder of the game, pitch with the hand from which he has switched. The pitcher shall not be given the opportunity to throw any preparatory pitches after switching pitching hands. Any change of pitching hands must be indicated clearly to the umpire-in-chief.

Rockin' Doc Jun 06 2015 03:38 PM Re: Pat Venditte

He is the second ambidextrous pitcher in the modern era of MLB (since 1900), though he is the only one to do it with regularity. Greg Harris was a journeyman pitcher who started his career as a NY Met in 1981 and eventually pitched for 6 different teams in his 15 year career. In his final season (1995), while pitching for the Montreal Expos, he pitched with boith arms against the Reds to retire the side with only a walk allowed. Note the ambidextrous glove. Looks like a precurser of the one Venditte is using.

Edgy MD Jun 06 2015 07:58 PM Re: Pat Venditte

I think it may be the same glove. I'm not sure why that rule and all it's contingencies are necessary. Not sure what side the ball is coming from, ump? Live in uncertainty.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2015 08:01 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Obviously it's the batter who needs to be informed; the ump merely acts as the conduit.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2015 08:04 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not sure why that rule and all it's contingencies are necessary. Not sure what side the ball is coming from ... I agree. The switch-pitcher's got an advantage? Good. Let him use it. It's a fair advantage. What's next? Sidd Finch isn't permitted to throw the ball faster than 105MPH? Jeez. They turn a blind eye to steroids for 10 years and suddenly get all sanctimonious right around when Congress gets curious but when a pitcher can throw the ball with whatever hand he feels like throwing it with on any given pitch, they'll legislate against that.

Edgy MD Jun 06 2015 08:06 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Frayed Knot wrote: Obviously it's the batter who needs to be informed; ... Why? Pourquoi? Warum? Cén fáth? He'll find out soon enough.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2015 10:09 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Edgy MD wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Obviously it's the batter who needs to be informed; ... Why? Pourquoi? So they don't wind up in an endless dance where the batter keeps switching sides in response to the pitcher switching his glove.

Edgy MD Jun 06 2015 10:23 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Pitcher takes his position on the rubber, the batter has to take his in the box. There's only one rubber, so the rules favor him, but in a way that only two pitchers in history have had the ability to exploit.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2015 10:33 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Y'know this really isn't that difficult. Edgy MD wrote: Pitcher takes his position on the rubber, the batter has to take his in the box. But there are two boxes, so the batter is going to see what hand the glove is on and pick the opposite side. But if the pitcher isn't forced to declare then he swaps his glove to the other hand ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... So you put in a rule which says that somebody has to make the first move and stick with it.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2015 10:43 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Frayed Knot wrote: Y'know this really isn't that difficult. Edgy MD wrote: Pitcher takes his position on the rubber, the batter has to take his in the box. But there are two boxes, so the batter is going to see what hand the glove is on and pick the opposite side. But if the pitcher isn't forced to declare then he swaps his glove to the other hand ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... at which point the batter changes boxes ... at which point the pitcher switches hands ... So you put in a rule which says that somebody has to make the first move and stick with it. Yeah, but the pitcher should be able to choose pitching hands from pitch to pitch.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2015 10:46 PM Re: Pat Venditte

As we continue to ignore the question of why the batter wouldn't then just switch to the side he wants to hit from ... AND what would get the game moving again!

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2015 11:10 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Frayed Knot wrote: As we continue to ignore the question of why the batter wouldn't then just switch to the side he wants to hit from ... AND what would get the game moving again! No. The pitcher must pitch with the pitching hand he selects. So there won't be this dance where the batter and pitcher switch sides endlessly without a pitch being thrown. But on the next pitch, the pitcher can select all over again.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2015 11:17 PM Re: Pat Venditte

But on the next pitch, the pitcher can select all over again. But the batter can't? And, if not, all you've done is create the same rule only with the batter having to declare his intentions ahead of time instead of the pitcher. And, if so, the pitcher's got no reason to switch because the batter will just switch on him too which gets you right back to where you started with the batter choosing what he does based on what the pitcher has chosen to do.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2015 11:22 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Frayed Knot wrote: But on the next pitch, the pitcher can select all over again. But the batter can't? And, if not, all you've done is create the same rule only with the batter having to declare his intentions ahead of time instead of the pitcher. And, if so, the pitcher's got no reason to switch because the batter will just switch on him too which gets you right back to where you started with the batter choosing what he does based on what the pitcher has chosen to do. The batter can switch, too. But once the pitcher selects, the pitcher's locked into his selection for that pitch. Each pitch wipes the slate clean selection-wise.

Edgy MD Jun 06 2015 11:27 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Frayed Knot wrote: As we continue to ignore the question of why the batter wouldn't then just switch to the side he wants to hit from ... AND what would get the game moving again! Because the batter has to set last. And if the pitcher has his hips square to you, and it's unclear which hand he's going to slip out of the glove and grab the ball with, tough. If he's in the stretch, and one hip is pointed at you, then he's tipped his hand.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2015 11:30 PM Re: Pat Venditte

The batter can switch, too. But once the pitcher selects, the pitcher's locked into his selection for that pitch. Each pitch wipes the slate clean selection-wise. Then we're back to choice #2: the pitcher has no reason to switch because the batter will just switch on him too which gets you right back to where you started with the batter choosing what he does based on what the pitcher has chosen to do. The only difference here is that it's done on a pitch by pitch basis rather than by AB by AB -- but there'd be no pitch-by-pitch switching because there'd be no advantage for the pitcher to do so and therefore we're back to the conditions dictated by the current rule that you seem to want to blow up.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2015 11:32 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Edgy MD wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: As we continue to ignore the question of why the batter wouldn't then just switch to the side he wants to hit from ... AND what would get the game moving again! Because the batter has to set last. And if the pitcher has his hips square to you, and it's unclear which hand he's going to slip out of the glove and grab the ball with, tough. If he's in the stretch, and one hip is pointed at you, then he's tipped his hand. At which point you call time, step out, and switch boxes.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 06 2015 11:36 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Frayed Knot wrote: The batter can switch, too. But once the pitcher selects, the pitcher's locked into his selection for that pitch. Each pitch wipes the slate clean selection-wise. Then we're back to choice #2: the pitcher has no reason to switch because the batter will just switch on him too which gets you right back to where you started with the batter choosing what he does based on what the pitcher has chosen to do. The only difference here is that it's done on a pitch by pitch basis rather than by AB by AB -- but there'd be no pitch-by-pitch switching because there'd be no advantage for the pitcher to do so and therefore we're back to the conditions dictated by the current rule that you seem to want to blow up. Of course the pitcher might think he has an advantage in switching from pitch to pitch. The pitcher might believe that this particular switch hitter is weaker against certain types of pitches from one side and weaker against other pitches from the other side.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2015 06:53 AM Re: Pat Venditte

Well, in that case, wouldn't switching what hand he's throwing with be the most extreme example of "tipping" pitches? I think the rule is fine as it is. It's simple and clear.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2015 09:21 AM Re: Pat Venditte

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, in that case, wouldn't switching what hand he's throwing with be the most extreme example of "tipping" pitches? It might be. But that's not a reason to ban the practice. Besides, the pitcher can always play the reverse psychology game, doing the opposite of what he thinks the batter is expecting. Also, a pitcher might want to switch his pitching hand during the same at-bat just because, or for other reasons other than trying to exploit a batter's weakness. I'm usually against rules that mainly eliminate tactics. What's the benefit of the rule, as it stands? To shave off the two or three seconds it would take a batter to move to the other side batter's box?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2015 10:16 AM Re: Pat Venditte

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think the rule is fine as it is. It's simple and clear. I'm coming around just a little to this idea. The existing rule is easier to enforce. Otherwise, you'd have to give the batter extra time to decide what side he wants to bat from on each pitch., and that' another complication. I don't like the present rule, but it does have its strengths.

Rockin' Doc Jun 07 2015 12:04 PM Re: Pat Venditte

I think the rule is straight forward and definitely needed to avoid chaos (as Frayed Knot) describes and as happened in the minor. The article and image below demonstrates the need for the rule. [url]https://youtu.be/yDyCRTlKllkwww.athleticsnation.com/2015/6/5/8735407/the-pat-venditte-rule-what-happens-when-a-switch-pitcher-faces-a

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2015 12:24 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Rockin' Doc wrote: I think the rule is straight forward and definitely needed to avoid chaos (as Frayed Knot) describes and as happened in the minor. The article and image below demonstrates the need for the rule. [url]https://youtu.be/yDyCRTlKllkwww.athleticsnation.com/2015/6/5/8735407/the-pat-venditte-rule-what-happens-when-a-switch-pitcher-faces-a Your link's bad. Try this video. The fun begins at the 40 second mark. [youtube]yDyCRTlKllk[/youtube] By the way, obligating the pitcher to declare his pitching hand at the beginning of each pitch would eliminate the chaotic situation shown in that video of a Yankees-Cyclones game.

Zvon Jun 07 2015 12:36 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Venditte is a better man than I. With a 7-2 lead, as soon as the Cyclone guy stopped fuckin' around I would'a plunked him.

Edgy MD Jun 07 2015 01:44 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Good for him for fighting for his rights.

Rockin' Doc Jun 07 2015 02:05 PM Re: Pat Venditte

batmagadanleadoff - "Your link's bad. Try this video. The fun begins at the 40 second mark." That's the video I was trying to post, but my limited computer skills aparently foiled me. Thanks for the assist. A situation like that in the video is I'm sure what led to the "Venditte Rule" which requires him to declare which had he intends to pitch with to a given batter.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 07 2015 02:14 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Rockin' Doc wrote: batmagadanleadoff - "Your link's bad. Try this video. The fun begins at the 40 second mark." That's the video I was trying to post, but my limited computer skills aparently foiled me. Thanks for the assist. A situation like that in the video is I'm sure what led to the "Venditte Rule" which requires him to declare which had he intends to pitch with to a given batter. It was made clear from that game incident, if no one had anicipated it beforehand, that some kind of rule was needed. Otherwise, the batter and pitcher could switch sides/hands indefinitely without an actual pitch ever being thrown.

Ceetar Jun 07 2015 06:39 PM Re: Pat Venditte

it's almost like no one watched the video i posted early in this thread.

MFS62 Jun 08 2015 07:52 AM Re: Pat Venditte

If I want to see a novelty act, I'll (to paraphrase Ernie Kovacs in his novel "Zoomar") watch old tapes of the Ed Sullivan Show to see a dog fart the Star Spangled Banner. When the novelty has worn off, it will all boil down to how well he pitches. Later

themetfairy Jun 08 2015 07:57 PM Re: Pat Venditte

And apparently he can swim!

dinosaur jesus Jun 08 2015 09:13 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Well, he does have a submarine delivery.

Edgy MD Jun 08 2015 09:30 PM Re: Pat Venditte

I've seen that image floating around, but nobody is mentioning which paper.

themetfairy Jun 08 2015 09:34 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Edgy MD wrote: I've seen that image floating around, but nobody is mentioning which paper. Reportedly it's the East Oregonian out of Pendelton, Oregon

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2015 09:37 PM Re: Pat Venditte

MFS62 wrote: If I want to see a novelty act, I'll (to paraphrase Ernie Kovacs in his novel "Zoomar") watch old tapes of the Ed Sullivan Show to see a dog fart the Star Spangled Banner. When the novelty has worn off, it will all boil down to how well he pitches. Nothing about this guy's history suggests that he's a novelty act.

MFS62 Jun 08 2015 09:43 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Novel , as in new and different. The rest was more about poetic license than about his baseball skills. B'sides, how often do you see Ernie Kovacs mentioned here? Later

cooby Jun 09 2015 01:04 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Ceetar wrote: it's almost like no one watched the video i posted early in this thread. I watched it ceetar. It looks like Venditte was in the "cup askew" fraternity

Mets – Willets Point Jun 09 2015 01:37 PM Re: Pat Venditte

The best thing about being an ambidextrous pitcher is that he can relieve himself on the mound.

Frayed Knot Jun 13 2015 07:17 PM Re: Pat Venditte

Was put on the DL with a sore right shoulder. My question is, WHY? He's still usable.